Why did Sparta Collapse?
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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Why did Sparta Collapse?
Sparta was an ancient Greek City state. Sparta was the leading force of the unified Greek military during the Greco-Persian Wars. Sparta was also the principal rival and then enemy of Athens during the Peloponnesian War. The city of Sparta never recovered from the defeat against Thebes in the Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC.
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Carl Roebuck, The World of Ancient Times
Plutarch, The Age of Alexander: Nine Greek Lives
#History #Documentary
The story of Sparta reminds me a lot of an old Mongolian saying.
"Stepping on a horse and conquering the world is easy. Stepping down and ruling it is difficult."
Probably why Mongolian conquerors and their descendants often lost most of their turf as soon as their leader died where greece was a major power until the mid 1400s
@@arthas640 their empires where short lived. But Turks and Mongols where feared until the 16 century when guns where invented.
@@AG26498 Turks yes but were the mongols still feared? I thought the mongols were pretty much just backwoods herders by the time the Ming took control in the 1300s. They had ruled china for awhile but I thought their power was steadily diminishing through the 1300s
@_Vanzz _ I always did find it kind of hilarious how the massive Chinese empire that liked to think of themselves as the most advanced, civilized country on earth had such a hard time defending themselves from tiny Mongolia.
@_Vanzz _ the retreat while dropping loot tactic only to ambush from horseback archer was genius. So many generals fell into the trap. Or to bribe the enemy with so much wealth that it slowed them down only to be wiped out and the treasure secured.
Sparta fell because Alexios raided 50 forts, 120 camps, and murdered a crap ton of leaders
Seems like alexios was on to something
hahahaha, in that way it loses a vast amount of nation power
Gotta get 100% done.
Yes sir
don't forget the trusty hawk he used to scout them fortresses before he launched his raids
amazing how history keeps repeating itself. one moment you're unbeatable, the next you're a roman tourist attraction.
Ticket, tickets, get your ticketistus here!
See the mighty Spartans!! See that one guy get kicked into the well!!
NO really SEE him !! We use slaves for that part, they never see it coming!!
Or a pile of rubble 🤣 wanna see an old building some assholes built?...pass...I work in a building assholes built and it has a toilet & tv in it.
@@EskenRock Ok
Nobody is unbeatable forever
~ Ipman
*greek
In a Simple Sentence
"Sparta was killed by it's own Rules"
Don't you mean "Sparta was killed..."? Or is that a grammatically correct sentence?
@@truaitchgoldi2963 good Point
Thanks For The Correction
@@madkilla707 you know what man, you earn my respect..it is seldom to find people accepting corrections...that's humility..
keep that attitude bro..
In order to grow you need to be self aware and accepting your mistakes and use the mistakes to grow stronger
@@neinneinnein379 that's true, and it's especially hard for me to grow because I never make mistakes.
Also, Sparta faced an everlasting internal struggle between the 'Spartans' and the 'Helots'. The Helots where a people that where enslaved by the Spartans and it was through the amazing labor of the Helots, providing Sparta with the essential goods a kingdom needs, that Sparta could maintain its militaristic culture. The downside, for the Spartans at least, was that the Spartans needed enough men at home to keep the Helots in check. This situation put immense stress on the Spartan military. Of course diminishing the amount of troops available in the field.
I think this is important to note as a compliment to this great video. :)
a lot of people like to ignore that the spartans were the only greeks that ever enslaved other greeks.
@@TheRedStateBlue That's not even remotely true I think. Slavery was probably 'normal' in the ancient world
Your comment is great.
The video was shit (exactly because it ignored what you posted).
Sparta was 90% helots. It was a huge slave-nation, where the upper class leeched the hell out of it's lower class, which was the whole reason Sparta could keep up their military parade, instead of focusing more on economy. It was never muh bravery bullshit, it was a very aggressive military dictatorship of the upper class over sparta's real population.
This is by far the biggest reason Sparta could never grow and would eventually fall, yet videos like these constantly ignore it because they would rather fondle the balls of the viewers who just want to hear "muh glory and bravery" of their imagined historical utopias.
@@dundanny3048 It was, but not in a way it was in Sparta.
While a concept of chattel slavery was common in Greece, the state slavery practiced by Sparta was unique to Sparta. While slaves in other city-states were personal property and could be (and regularly were) given freedom, Helots were property of Spartan state and were only loaned to Spartans, together with the land they worked and lived on. A spartan could never legally free his slave(s), since they were not his and state was legally banned from doing so.
Second issue was "downwards inheritance" of your social status, meaning you'd inherit status of lower parent. That means that a Spartan could only be born to two Spartan parents, which killed population of their warrior caste in about 2 centuries when Sparta was a powerful city state.
@@noodleknight7924 Its not just because of that, telling the truth about sparta and the helots its saying what we can expect in the long term from the current multicultural policy in europe.
Legend never die. No King rule forever, but the fact that we still talk about Sparta till this day, their reputation reached the heaven
Or because of the movie lmao
Or because of god of war
@@zavthe1371 the massive boost that a few movies have given Sparta makes me wonder what other civilisations there were that are not in our foremost thoughts…
@@zavthe1371 the movie was made because of Sparta itself.
@@sanisacse6577 no it's entirely based on a comicbook.
1. The Spartans were too selective so they couldn't produce enough soldiers to keep up with the times.
2. The Spartans were people of war, rightfully so to protect themselves but when they were blessed with the power over Greece, they abused it like wild dogs and didn't understand the outer societies enough to control it.
Sparta was a Chad that had it all and let it get to his head. After getting humbled, he went fat, drank too much beer, and died being a parody of his glory days.
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS SPARTA.
Not too selective. The women just didnt wanna have children anymore as they took over the wealth, trade and land. Basically feminism. Germsny has 1.1 children(already including the migrants who have 4-5). So rral germans maybe have 1 Child per 4 women
Since we have an example of what it takes to go 1v100 why didn't everyone followed the best example ? Ego always makes the best justifications, But the Fact was That they created a recipe of Ultimate Success, and Yes it contains pain SO WHAT ? . Now the weak lead and they make laws to sustain their chair out of greed. The natural way is stay behind the strong let them create a safe path. Letting the weak take control over the Strong and let the fear rule is a recipe of absolute Doom.
@@dionysis8680 you are obviously uneducated about your own countries history. Read my comment. Their obsessive selection was a recipe for their Doom and turned the Women into proto-feminists who rather banged the Helot slaves than having children with the closetgay spartans who would kill most of them anyway. Before rome took over Sparta once and for all the country was fully owned and led by rich Women.
Also the Lakadeimonians and especially their women were known to have Blonde hair. How many Greek nowadays even look European? Lol reminds me of the greek vs turk debate meme that the average turk looks more european than the average greek
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti it's obvious that you don't know anything about history and just go by stereotypes
Fun fact, modern day sparta is the most conservative and or right wing city in Greece.
That's how it should be everywhere. 🔥
They are right wing but more into king than fasism. Modern day Sparta(the area) used to be in favour of king since the first king of Greece.
About the "conservative" it depends on what you mean by it.
@@jakubfiser5246 exactly!
@@WERTYUIO821 ah yes yet another who thinks fascism is conservative
Wolf's Den morons.
Fascism advocates for socialistic ideologies. It’s more left leaning than right. It emphasizes the “people” and socialized systems. Conservativism is freedom.
"Leonidas led his 300 men, with some help from other Greeks."
Some help? 6,000-7,000 soldiers counts as "some help?" lol
at the beggining of battle the help was 700 becouse leonidas ordered the rest of them to retreat
Bro, there were over 700 thespians at this battle. lol. Now, perhaps we can agree that the Spartans had a great strategy for this battle, but that's not what happened. Realistically, about 40,000 Persians put down about 10,000 Greeks, and the majority of that was legitimately because of treachery. Oh well, the Greeks still won the war.
Yes lol
@@TheNeonParadox fucking hate Hollywood sometime, teaching people wrong information
@@MyH3ntaiGirl Not that I disagree with that statement, but 300 isn't meant to be historically accurate
Long story short:
Earthquake and low population
Steven Wertyuiooo lack of good quality adhesive
Steven Wertyuiooo lesbomancy
Hubris
So it’s entirely possible Sparta could have existed for much longer. Damn.
Billmaster115 yes all of their men dying through history brought their demise
Sparta fell because Kratos destroyed it and left.
Unenthusiastic Person underrated comment
@@taco741 Kratos existed in mythology. The real reason why Sparta faded was because it never wanted to accept new blood and the constant wars meant that they needed that. They were extremely rigid. Sparta was the truest form of absolute and completely state dominated military society ever in the history of mankind. From birth to death you were told whether you were allowed to live and if you were allowed to even have a tombstone when you died. You literally could not die without permission save the fact of old age or during a battle. If you had gotten a disease and died, it was viewed as a weakness and your family paid that price. You could not even get sick and die without a form of some punishment. It was definitely not for the weak.
@@billbates5475 Nah, Kratos was real and he definitely fucked up the city. Theres even a game about this dude Kratos.
@@Spartan31AA correct, there is a game but Kratos is from comic books, fantasy stories and games. Nothing else. He was not the god of war that so many mistaken him for either The ancient Greek god of war was Aris.
This nigga got me crying
Another note: spartan population was always on a decline because of their strict selection. Its thought their highest peak was when the Spartans first populated the land around 40,000
Quality is important but number important too
@@anonaka131 Number is definitely important. Look at WW2, USSR won thanks to it's population.
@@AwesomeTheAsim No, USSR survive thx to their populations it was their incredible industrial power and a lot of natural resources what in the end defeater germany, basicallt they spamed tanks like it was nothing.
@@CarlosGarcia-nl8jj They could spam tanks bc of their giant population. If Britain suffered as much as USSR they'd no longer exist. i
@@AwesomeTheAsim the Soviet Union's population was pretty much equal to that of the European Axis members combined, and after Barbarossa pretty much half of the soviet population fell under german occupation, so no, their population wasn't giant
This is wonderful!
I love Spartan history!
I made my entire channel’s theme around Sparta!
Could you do a what if Dutch empire reunited today
History Explained
*THIS*
*IS*
*SPARTAA!!*
My channel is all about Spartans!
History Explained no you didn’t
Because they vanished and you don't feel in Sparta anymore. Islam is the Strongest Civilization that lived until this day. And will continue even though thry are now poor and weak but their faith is still within their hands.
Also, the tatics where changing a lot, more and more light infantry and cavalry was being implemented into battles, that before where mostly hoplite engagement only, now archers, slingers, skirmishers and cavalry, specialy thessalian cavalry where becoming more and more used, making the heavy and many times slow and clumsy tight packed hoplites obsolete.
Kings and generals explain that well.
Hoplites were not at all slow, try on the armor someday, Spartan army was all infantry they viewed archers as cowardly and Spartans could always hold against light cavalry. Sparta's enemies became more professional getting away from militia style armies, they also tried innovative tactics while the Spartans stayed traditional, why change what has always worked in their mind. Ultimately, too many wars drained their very limited manpower and their arrogance made them too many enemies, in the end they brought all of Greece down by dragging the Romans into Greek politics. This made it easy for Rome to divide and conquer where a pure Roman invasion risked uniting Greece against them.
@@Kealen69, The Hoplites WERE slow, not really because of their armor or equipment but because of their fighting style, that is why i said tighly packed formations, just like the Macedon phalanx. figthing in large strict units.
The romans had more loose and flexible formations, fought with more spaces between each unit and with smaller units, which is why they beat the macedons, for the macedons worked really badly in rough terrain.
That is why there are cases where hoplites where beaten by a more mobile and quick skirmishes, and that is why latter the greek hoplite began to adopt ligher armor and shields as well as cavalry and missile into their ranks.(see king and general for more details)
And by the way, withstanding, even light cavalry charge in the front is one thing but cavalry was use in order to flank the enemy army, even Spartan are but mortals, if they where charged at their side or backs while facing their enemy infantry in the front, they would be routed, any army would.
mobility in battle is everything, the mongols taught us that very well.
EDIT: by the way i am talking about the evolutions in the Peloponessian war and hoplite in general, not just the Spartans, and i said "heavy" in the first post because the hoplites are classified as heavy infantry.
In the end, even that, is a result of a societal collapse due to limitation in their socio-political system. Too few citizens + too many slaves + too much land to exert dominance over = too slow and rigid to change the military system.
Things just weren't the same as the "good ol' days" of the Lycurgan reforms.
@@Cloud43001 That is why they had reserves on the wings to protect their flanks, Philip and Alexander didn't just ride the companions around the wing and smash them from the rear. They had to open up gaps, drawing the Thebians away from the Athens by fainting then charging the gaps with their cavalry. Romans are a horrible example since they lost as many engagements against the Greeks as they won. The last battle against Macedonia was a gamble by the Macedonians, to attack with only half their forces on uneven ground. Since the second wing hadn't caught up to the first wing they left a huge gap for the Romans to exploit. Greeks vs Romans always came down to the better leadership and terrain so I still don't know what you're talking about. If Pyrrhus had the manpower of all of Greece he couldn've kept going until he got to Rome. The Roman phalanx was never in the same class as the Greeks and they didn't have a lot of cavalry, which usually got routed and chased off the field, so they needed something that worked better for them. Hannibal's phalanx of mercenary Greeks also spanked the Romans. So again I have no idea what you're talking about.
@@Kealen69 remember what you yourself questioned, we are talking about the lack of flexibility and "slowness" of the hoplite, wich is why the hoplite as well as the greeks themselvs started changing how warfare was fought, and the romans are a good example exactly because they won those half engagements base on a more maneuvabre and flexible units. In a head on confrontation indeed the phalanx was overwhelming, you are right in that, but it lacks independent action and at a rought terrain it is more efficient, that is my point.
Besides i never said they just "went to the rear and smashed them", i said they engaged first with infantry(center), won the flank cavalry engagement and striked at the rear making a pincer movement. Also i said initially " making the heavy and many times slow and clumsy tight packed hoplites obsolete" because they used to be, before the persian wars, mostly hoplite only engagements which became an obsolete form of warfare, i admit however that i said in a bit misleading way so i apologise.
Funny how sparta had this ever shrinking pool of mən who could become solders and then you got Rome who after suffering 3 defeat one of them losing over 100 000 men could just spit out another army.
basically a swords and spears version of the eastern front "we secured leningrad but lost 500k men and cant replace them, sir we ne-" *hears URRRRAAAAA* "Unteroffizier what do you need?" *hears gunshot at other end of radio*
Thats because a lot of people wanted to become romans themselves, italian allies wanted to be part of the roman world,wheres sparta is very exclusively to spartans only,thats why Rome conquered the whole mediterrenean
@@30cal23 neither the nazis nor the finns managed to take it. And btw, the Soviets just had a waaaay larger reserve than the fascists anticipated. They didnt expect to face even more troops after being this close to Moscow. Hell, the Axis outnumbered the Soviets and still lost the war.
@@martiawesome Fake and oversimplified
Quality over quantity...
In summary:
They thrived while no one could defeat them in battle.
Once people adapted to their strategy, they were no longer impervious to defeat.
Their low population couldn't support losing battles and they withered.
@John doue Quebec Unbeatable is a hyperbole. But they were extremely powerful, yes.
@E Fig that is literally the point he was making
As long as they had there strategies and victories they seemed unstoppable
The second thebes adapted, they lost there statuesque persona of being unstoppable
Skrt Skrt so they did a Rome or a china and failed to adapt (Rome as in the WRE and china for most of history)
Sparta never was that huge powerhouse, most of it is a myth, ancient propaganda. Their battle tactics were risky as hell. They overloaded one wing with all their elite fighters to overwhelm the opposition, but without any backup plan. If this failed, they would lose a lot of their best fighters in one sweep.
The only reason, they could become nr.1 among Greek poleis for a short time, was due to a deal with Persia. But they were not good enough in polticis to keep this position and ultimately lost it very fast.
At the end of the day it all was wasted energy anyways, with the rise of Rome, the Greek cities were done anyways, no matter what they would have done before.
Their low population was probably caused by infanticide
"Under the Romans Sparta was a tourist attraction"
Why I imagine Spartans wearing cheap costumes doing reenactments for rich Romans?
Hoàng Nguyên history is just the present retold.
The Labyrinth would be modern 'Halloween Horror Nights'. @ Universal Studios.
Jacob Clark not exactly, history is way weirder
@Hoàng Nguyên could have done without your homosexual fantasies but yea depressing
@Hoàng Nguyên sure I've heard it all before from British "historians"
Imagine being such a beast that people still talk in awe about it almost 3000 years later.
It was more "image" than reality. They never actually did anything of note that would constitute a legacy of being the "best warriors ever". I mean, they didn't win at Thermopolyae, and who knows how well they "actually" performed there. There is no history of them just cleaning house in pitched battles on the regular. A lot of what we get about the Spartans is actually from other Greek city states. Building up your enemy served a political purpose for when you beat them. The Romans were really notorious for this, building their enemies up to be unstoppable war monsters, but hey, I defeated them, how awesome am I?
I think about the only one on the Roman side that wasn't propaganda was Hannibal and Carthage. It was quite clear there was a genuine fear of the Carthaginians on the side of the Romans.
@@tsdobbi it looks like you not know much about Spartans and you don't understand why people keep writing and talking about them. For example you wrote about Carthage. Why you didn't wrote about First Punic War then? Carthage was close to be destroyed... But they had idea to hire Spartan general Xanthippus. Yeah, that general who trained destroyed, demoralized Carthagian army and led them to Victory? If this never happened, you would never hear about Hannibal.
And yes Spartans lost battle in Thermopylae, but you didn't study this battle much. If So, you would know they gave time for another Greeks like Athens. So because of Thermopylae, for Persians this was victory but no longer because they were defeat near Salamis and year after BECAUSE of Thermopylae a lot of Hellenic states fight together against Persians in battle of Plataea.
Spartans are synonym for discipline, obedience and courage. They are symbol of defiance and in Thermopylae they not fight for Spartans but for whole Hellenic world and their freedom. Spartans were respected by many nations, generals not only in Ancient world...
First woman who won Olympic games was from Sparta. Spartan girls received some education and women had more freedom than in other hellenic cities.
And search something about Laconic phrase this is from Spartans too.
@@maximux777 Most of the critics here stems from the fact that Sparta was not able to maintain their might like Rome did. Sparta's inflexibility to adapt is also something a lot of people and experts are talking about.
Video: Why did Sparta Collapse?
Comments section: Modern politics shitfest
I miss the good old days when you could have a civilized debate in the town center, and if they wouldnt see your wisdom you could just tear them over the head with you xiphos
Fuck them libtard fucks...
@@ignacio9813 Read Leo’s comment again, you’re contributing to the shitfest in the comments.
From what I see its the right saying the left is destroying traditions but there is no left...
@@ignacio9813 Liberalism is unfortunately the future. Well rip democratic socialism
Short answer: Rome
Long answer: Senatus Poplousque Romanus
Shortest answer: UmU
short answer: low birth rate due to social system
long answer: low birth rate and the city system relying on the metics as well
*Hubris*
Romana Res Publica.
@@innosanto not really
Athens: no im better
Sparta: im better
Alexander: hold my coat
He never conquered Sparta ;)
@@funkeydunkyfication he never got the chance to
@@funkeydunkyfication Because Sparta was worthless at that point and when Sparta went to war against Macedonia to help Persia, Sparta got its ass kicked
@@accurategamer7085 Makedonia and Sparta were alies, but they all were hellenistic so there was no reason to conquere Sparta.
@@funkeydunkyfication because he had no reason to as sparta was worthless at that point.
Greek history is so fascinating. So many what if thoughts or could of beens. Sparta has always been my biggest interest when it comes to Greek history. Great video man, I very much enjoyed this.
The problem is most seems to be what the Athenians or others tell about Sparta and the Spartans. One sure get curious when it is just "unknown" but apperantly important.
Just a second watch this video and you will learn that sparta was a place of culture and conservatism ...there was no brutal regim for super soldiers.
One thing that you didn't seem to explain is the fact that Sparta had an enormous slave caste that was vital for it's economy (they practically did everything aside from war ad fighting), and the Spartans regularly went into their habitations and raided them to keep a sense of fear in them. That's why for so long, despute having one of the best military in the ancientg reek world, they didn't go and conquer everything like Rome did.
The Greeks fought so hard between themselves that they were so weak that rome could conquer the whole Greek world. It was the biggest mistake. The Greeks should be United how Alexander the Great was dreaming of and did. After Alexander’s dead the Greeks fought between themselves and that was the end of Greece.
With like 3 legions or something haha. Took like 30 to beat Carthage.
This is the history of Greeks
@@herbthompson8937 Well, the main problem was the Greeks didn't get with the times in regard to military tactics. It's like the Roman military organization was designed to defeat the Greek Phalanx. The Phalanx was unwieldy and best performed on flat ground. The Romans fought them where it suited them and they could out maneuver the Greek Phalanx.
@@tsdobbi the Roman military organization was changed when they had to fight the Samnites. Before that, they fought like Greeks in a phalanx essentially.
In reality, Sparta collapsed, but Spartans never disappeared, they moved their capital from the ancient city which was left abandoned to avoid the Gothic and later Slavic invasions, to some 6 km north at Mystra, and became a respected Medieval power known as the Despotate of Mystra whose Despot (ruler) was one of the sons of the Eastern Roman Emperor. They never succumbed to the Ottomans as they were self-ruled when the whole Balkan peninsula belonged to the Ottoman Empire. Modern Maniots who inhabit the dry and mountainous region of Mani, are considered the descendants of the ancient Spartans, they're similarly fiercely independent, warlike, and continue the tradition of being monarchophile. There's also a region to the east of Laconia, called Tsaconia whose inhabitants -the Tsaconians- speak (or rather, spoke as their language is endangered) a dialect which experts consider as the sole descendant of the ancient Doric dialect of Greek, called Tsaconian, mostly unintelligible to the rest of Greeks due to its archaisms and the different path it took as it evolved. Nativlang has a good video on Tsaconian ruclips.net/video/0nxD4GDJXCw/видео.html
My dude, do you have some sort of source or book i can read about this, perhaps drop an Amazon link, because this shit sounds fucking awesome, and i have no clue about it! That has to change! Thanks in advance.
Thanks for this additional knowledge
Αποστόλης Μ.
Ok. I tried using google.
What is being Monarchopile? Was that an spelling error because google broke looking for that word!
They disappeared during Roman republic
@@equarg "friend" of Monarchy
Sparta fell apart in it's waning years from not only it's defeats, but a population problem. As it was a society of privileged warrior slave owners they were a purely enclosed society that refused to allow outsiders and citizenship to their slave and land owner classes. As with every defeat they lost some of the families in power. With every defeat was an economic loss, and without new citizens and a growing population to counter it's larger enslaved residents, their system began to fall apart.
Sparta was destroyed thanks to the very thing that gave them their fame and power, uncomprimising rigidity and tradition that allowed no leeway from the Spartan way.
Same thing will happen to Amerikkka
Imperador dos Imperadores Afonso Martins oh well I guess it’s true that people never learn from history. Your comment is the best example of this, especially given this video
@ihateoregonians you dont have water or dairy? Sucks bro my grocery store is still fine other than those moron plebs buying all the hand sanitizer
Brandon Boggs from capitalism when apple goes to war with google lol
@ihateoregonians I'm in one of the more rural part of cali, I'm glad it hasn't been as bad for us. The local food bank has been a life saver
Quarantine's got me so bored I'm watching actual history to pass the time.
You’re living through history as we speak
Unless you have a pre existing condition, I don’t understand why you’re quarantining at this point. The protests have freed everyone.
dodo2208 nah
@dodo2208 I didn't finish them
A Spartan rule was never fight an enemy too often, under the peril he would learn your tactics. I read that somewhere but I am not sure if this was true.
this was something napolean also had said.
Its also in tzu art of war.
It actually states, never fight 2 battles the same way as your tactics are revealed to your enemy every time you press into combat.
Yes,that was one of their tactics.
Also Spartans never chased their defeated opponents -- that was one of their tactics too.
Hmm not only tactics. If you are constantly battling someone, the enemy will become tougher and tougher; more determined and militaristic.
Except they did and the Thebans defeated them eventually.
Fun fact:
The people of Kalamata(Their ancestors were the Eliots) and the people of Sparte(Their ancestors were the Spartans) of today's Greece stil consider themselves rivals/enemies.
Citation please
@@billykotsos4642
Friends and family from there
Κυριως οικογενεια.
@@WERTYUIO821 Λιγο υπερβολικό μου φαίνεται. Για πλάκα θα το λένε Όχι στα σοβαρά.
Έχουν περάσει χιλιάδες χρόνια. Πληθυσμοί έχουν μετακινηθεί δεν βγάζει νόημα πλέον.
@@billykotsos4642
Κι ομως φιλε. Τσακωνονται για τα παντα. Απο τους δρομους και τα κτελ μεχρι καθημερινα ζητηματα. Ειναι και διαφορετικα πιστευω πολιτικα(νομιζω η Σπαρτη παντα εβγαζε ΝΔ ενω η Καλαματα παντα Πασοκ/Συριζα κατι τετοιο) με τους Σπαρτιατες να ηταν παντα υποστιρικτες του Βασιλια. Αστα ποιο πολυ τσακωμο σε νομους δεν βλεπεις. Μεχρι και για λιγα εκατοστα γης σε ποιο νομο ανηκει τσακωνονται καθημερινα. Σπαρτη-Καλαματα σε αθλητικες διοργανωεεις τσακωνονται αγρια κ.α. . Τα χιλιαδες χρονια περασαν αλλα τα κοινονικοπολιτικα πιστευω τους δεν αλλαξαν τοσο πολυ.
@@WERTYUIO821 Τι να πω ρε φίλε δεν είμαι από εκεί και γι'αυτό μου φαίνεται περίεργο. Τώρα αν το πάρεις πολιτικά/κομματικά αλλη πονεμένη ιστορία αυτή.
No one single greek nation ever existed
Alexanders macedonia: am I a joke to you?
The kingdom of Macedonia under Philip II and Alexander did not own the cities of southern Greece. It was a type of forced alliance, not annexation.
@@Been2Hell It was "alliance" only in name, but everyone knew that Phillip and Alexander owned all the Greek states. Just ask Thebes what happens when someone questioned their authority...
Macedonia isn't greece
@@hugus800 Show me REAL facts, please
@@hugus800 Macedonia was Greece, is Greece and will be Greece forever
It's no secret, everybody educated people of the planet know it! considered self-evident!
One word "Thebes" it all started with Thebes beating the shit out of Sparta
Yes. In conjunction with the fact that after the Peloponnesian war, Sparta despite being the winner, was severely battered and bruised. Unable to confront a serious competitor.
No, that was just sth that would happen at some point.
long story short it was low birth rate ( spartan women and men met old in their lives and made few children and also there were many casualties from battle and Spartans only got full citizens in the army) and also the social system with metics doing all farming and economic activities. metics were many more and when spartans became too few the metics revolted and left.
Spartans ( full citizens) had become very very few to both fight and also control the city of metics ( who had not been made part of society and felt foreign and were kept through might in the city).
In addition to the above, the Theban phalanx was a very good one , and also the sacred band of Thebes was also very well trained and very disciplined, and Thebans also added tactical innovations with Pelopidas and Epaminondas.
@@innosanto I was just generalizing, mate. All things you mentioned are true. It's always a combination of reasons. As it is true, that after the Peloponnesian war Sparta was never the same. You needed an excuisite event to exploit all that lurked underneath.
I remember my lecturer telling me about the fall of Sparta. She summarized it in the end that the reason the Spartans were sacked is because the Visogoths had no real prior knowledge and thus fear of Spartan military's might: so they just attacked and proceeded on.
There were other factors like a lack of a major enemy for centuries, complacency, the economic crash of the fall of Rome, and more issues. But to summarise it the Visogoths just didn't care who the Spartans were.
what? No Spartas fall was in 371 BC in essence but in reality before that gradually through the steadily declining population of complete Spartan citizens because Spartan men and women met very old and few times with each other and made few children ( and also metics supporitn the city and when Spartans became too few they revolted and left)
Visigoths? Wat...?
@@e.hanker193 yes they destroyed sparta
Thats like, 7-8 hundred years after the time period this video talks about
The Romans turned Sparta into the first tourist trap in history, and I can't stop laughing about that.
There were all sorts of tourist traps. A big one was Troy.
Sparta: we are the chads
Rome: we are A D M I N I S T R A T O R S
Sparta collapsed because of several reasons. One, the needed an able statesmen to help solidify the Peloponnesian League. To provide pro- hellenic measures to gain patriotic unity and fairness to fellow Greeks. Make the Helots and the dwellers around citizens with rights and privileges so they would willingly help the Spartan Military system. They needed more able military commanders like Brasidas, Lysander and Gylippus to make sound successful battle plans and to implement them. To adapt to military changes in strategies and tactics. Initiate less death casualties in the Agoge to produce more professional soldiers that Sparta needed. Develop a better cavalry and use more siege equipment. Unite Greece to the common goal of freeing Asiatic Greeks and to conquer the Persian empire. That is what Sparta needed to do.
This was fascinating. I've been to Greece twice and it has fantastic people.
Taxes
Debts
What he describes about Sparta's fall reminds me very much of Venice. For many centuries Venetians had enjoyed the safest, richest, and most prosperous city state in Italy. But, to the annoyance of the other city states, that wasn't enough. Venice continually attempted to absorb territories belonging to neighboring cities, often by very duplicitous and underhanded means. In particular Venice earned the hatred of all the city states by its policy of inviting the great powers north of Italy to invade in order to weaken Venice's rivals. Because of this nobody was willing to ally with Venice against the Turks or against invasion by the northern powers. Venice's greed and conniving were short-sighted, eventually leading to Venice's isolation and decline.
*No one can stand for ever, but Sparta proved it's might in it's reign*
Then athens pooped it
For anyone wondering, Sparta had always a great problem with its slaves the heliots. They were so much more numerous than the Spartans that were constantly keeping them nervous and some of their uprisings almost brought the Spartan state down. Moreover, Spartans were aware that they were not indigenous in their land because they settled there after the Doric invasion from the north and they were in a constant state on defence to maintain their power.
One of the best videos I’ve seen on Ancient Greece.
the dude didnt fight with 300 men, that was a movie. he really faught with 7000 men.
The most terrifying thing you can see is a United greece.
*germany ;-) Learn history :-)
No counry is the mst terrifying thing you can see. God in his anger is the most terrifying thing. Then people wish rather the mountains would fall on them, t hide them from God's judgment. But there's no place to hide from him -the bottom of the see is nt hiidden from him.
Just he doesn't want to do that. But if people stay in their evil, they are wipedout the day when the Lord will bring his judge punishment on mankind, for oppressing the poor and weak people, for destroying the environment etc.
So the evil will get its judge punishment - the shout of the oppressed has always been heard. Though we all have evil more than we can solve, so we'd all be destroyed, if we don't accept his rescue mission: the salvation from our evil he donated in Jesus suffering for us, the punishment belonging to us, justly.
@@timomastosalo have you ever seen teletubbies?
They got fucking TV's in their bellies that's terrifying as heck
The most terrifying thing you can see is a united Seljuk horde smashing through anatolia and appearing at your doorstep.
@@ndusenhadrian3078 I've seen the Telefaggots marching together to Rammstein.
This was a excellent video. Thank you for your time you put into this
Imagine being so well trained that every battle in war is in easy mode, wtf.
Except when cavalry, slingers,javelinmen or archers are involved
I was always under the impression that Sparta fell to a slave revolt. Now I know it was much more complicated than that.
The fact he didn’t even mention the numerous slave revolts and the birth rate and population issue is a red flag for me - take his video with a pinch of salt - he seems one of those computer game fans who focuses on military tactics instead of the broader themes.
Thebes: Uses military tactics
Sparta: Surprised Pikachu face
This video is alright, but there are some major issues in the information presented here.
Firstly, though of only partial significance, is the mispronounciation of the names in the narration, which detracts from the effectiveness of the information.
Second, the Battles of Artemisium and Thermopylae were irrelevant, if not completely detrimental to, the story of Sparta. Thermopylae was a pretty story, but largely irrelevant to Sparta's fortunes. The popularity of Sparta was also an irrelevant factor, because Sparta's domination was not dependent upon popular choice. They came to power by force of arms, maintained it through tyrannies and oligarchies, and lost it by force of arms.
Most importantly, the video completely misses the reasons for *why* the Spartans collapsed. The video ends with mentioning the 'internal confusion' and weakness of Sparta, but completely omits any explanation of what that weakness was, and where it originated from. This video is essentially a recounting of historical events, but with very little explanation of why these events were significant, and often times, the events were nothing to do with why Sparta fell.
There is *no* explanation of the constitution of Sparta, which established an idiosyncratic system from the beginning nor of the internal structure of the state which derived from it. There is no discussion of the way the system set its citizens on a ruinous course from birth, nor of the institution of Helotry, or of the utterly crippling economic system employed by Sparta. The video also makes a statement about the "objective lesson in the relationship between social organization and military power" but completely omits to mention what that lesson is.
It is these factors which lead to the collapse of Sparta, not the continuing march of disparate events, which, in of themselves, had no bearing on the collapse of Sparta. In short, it seems largely a collection of historical events and strangely incongruous statements.
Feel better?
@@ryanwillett728 all of what he said was correct
Sparta might be dead on the map but it will always be alive in our hearts
Good one, I always wondered this! Great video.
Isolation and over specialization in the end lends you vulnerable to you enemies due to lack of flexibility or ability to evolve. The Spartans are the prime example.
When I watch these videos it makes me feel so insignificant. Our lives are so so short.
Good summary; thanks.
They stopped kicking people into the “don’t stop kicking people into the pit or Sparta will fall” pit
Me who has played AC Odyssey: Don’t ever use the word smart with me.
True
I feel like the only person who sided with Athens in AOC.
@Ludimaul there are 0 good ac games
Great video
Gotta remember that the battle of Thermopylae was in the grand historical setting almost totally irrelevant to the events of the Persian - Greek war and only became romanticized much later as a “east vs west” thing. The battle almost literally had no bearing on the outcome of the war
leonidas with 300 spartan + 7000 hoplites from other cities. Of course sparta will get all the credit
True watch this ruclips.net/video/hMQmU0epVr4/видео.html
I thought that Leonidas and his 300 Spartan soldiers fought the thousands of Persians off until the other 7000 came to reinforce the remaining soldiers of the 300?
@@kevinwanschers1787 nope, it was not even leonidas idea to remain behind ...sparta even had a king with disabilities , truth be told most societies killed deformed babies at the time and the spartans were more oriented to culture and the development of arts rather than war ...unlike the athenians
yep, i was thinking this video was filled with terrible pronunciations and myths that have already been corrected
Thats what i be thinking lol
I'm thankful for playing Assassin's creed odyssey..I am able to understand this video easily because of it. Great content!
"These shields are Sparta's walls" -Spartan King
Fun fact, they lost their walls when they lost their Army.
By having a to rigid shape, a to concentrated attention on one side, you loose the ability to defend your self against more clever oponnents. Sparta concentrated their energy on one thing: Warfare!
By stepping on everyones toes, ignoring diplomacy, trading and exploring they closed themselfs of. And so it was easier for its enemies to allie with each other and carving the hard "stone" of sparta. Piece by Piece, until it collapsed.
If they would be more shapeless, doing more trading, exploring and so on, they would expand much further and would live longer, like Athens. They would be harder to catch, like a slippy Ball and therefore be more powerful in the long run.
But yeah, very nice video. Have to do something like that on my channel too. Keep it up!
P.S.: The army of Thebes were actually homosexuell. They believed, that men who "love" each other will fight much harder than usuall. And so it came, that the biggest military power in ancient time were defeated by a gay army. Thats no Joke, haha.
Not the entire army just a regiment
not all of them, but some clever dude decided to pick the gayest ones and made a unit out of them, because gay love makes guys stab harder...
You absolutely knows nothing about Sparta my dude
This is a very well done mini doc.
Sparta became so irrelevant that it was allowed to just fizzle out by Macedon and then Rome...
Spartan warriors exist.
Some javelin throwing boys: We're gonna end their entire careers.
Scorpion
This is really helpful if you are looking to learn some history. Great job! You've got yourself a new subscriber. :)
"THIS WAS SPARTAAAAAAA"
Was, son... was!
Gaming On *was
Lol
Silly me waiting for you to mention the Macedonians
Sora Lorewalker macedonian were not greek
@@arifdede9802 get your facts straight!!!
Xaris Xeros they are so so wrong . Macedonia is not grece. MACEDONİA İS MACEDONİA 👊
Xaris Xeros todays greeks is not ancşent greeks they are changed . Todays greeks most of all slavic and turkic as dna . So todays grece steals alexander name. But alexander was a macedonian . So yor saying is so so nonsense. You had learned wrong hfake history. You must be object.
Arif Dede X-Files... They were aliens... The truth is out there... Mars...
The Spartans were extremely isolationist. They had a very closed and exclusive society, one that was highly suspicions of outsiders. It was a very rigid society which resisted change however possible.
They had expanded enough to conquer the neighboring kingdoms of Laconia and Messenia, which then became part of Spartan territory. Under Spartan rule, the Laconians and Messenians became known as “Helots” for Sparta… Most of them were forced to live and work in Sparta under a brutal form of serfdom. At one point, there were seven Helots for every Spartan.
If you wanted to be in the regular Spartan Army, you had to be a male born to Spartan parents. They simply didn’t allow outsiders, not even other Greeks, to enlist in their army.
They wanted to keep everyone else out of Sparta, as they believed that the foreign influences would be too corruptive to their culture.
Sparta’s army was for Spartan men and Spartan men only.
While Sparta did win Peloponnesian War, in fact it was a pyrrhic victory because, overall they were so badly weakened by it. Because of this “no non-Spartan in our army” rule, they simply weren’t able to replenish their soldiers fast enough. They continued to be weakened through other wars and various Helot revolts.
Sparta barely had any of the things that the other Greek city-states had developed… no big libraries, no science, no philosophy, no theaters, no art, no centers of learning beyond the basic Spartan education. They always poured everything they had into their military.
The bottom line is that Sparta was just too rigid in their lifestyle for too long. The times were changing, and Sparta didn’t successfully adapt to that change. It led to their own decline and eventual demise, getting conquered by Rome and becoming nothing more than a tourist destination for wealthy Romans.
Sparta fell because I killed them all in assassin's creed odyssey.
Do you know what the Λ in the Spartan shield means?
Lacedaemon
Well its not only that
Its from the ΕΛ which means descendant of the Olympian gods
Λακεδαίμων
ΓΙΩΡΓΟΣ ΜΑΝΤΖΙΟΣ macedonia is macedonia is not grece
Running out of troops was not a major reason Sparta fell; they were known for their unique ability to defeat larger forces, even during the Peloponnesian war.
It was their myopic approach to battle field tactics and refusal to become more maneuver-based, flexible and decentralized. Their reknowned phalanx was literally nullified by the use of a battle formation known as an echelon, which enabled the Thebans to envelop and turn the blocky Spartan formation. Had they become more fluid and adaptable, they certainly would have maintained military dominance and in effect controlled the other states politically.
Not everything is about the feelings and sensitivities of the other states.
This video : *Exsist*
Me who is a lvl 99 in ac oddessy and killed a crap ton of spartans and athenians : Id prettend I didnt see that
Commenters, get it together I’ve read 8 starting with “the reason they fell in short” or whatever and none of you agree
Great video thank you
Interesting that the Romans allied them and let the Spartans keep their free state for so long before Visigoths. Though, I still find that hard to believe that the Romans left them with their city for a free state.
Rome actually preferred that (vassalization) to annexation. It is a lot more cost effective to subjugate a state, bound them to your will via treaty and make them pay you tribute than to annex and administer the region dealing with possible unrest etc. Italy wasn't even fully annexed by Rome in the 1st century BC (A time when Rome ruled much of Spain and North Africa already). The Italian city states actually fought a war against Rome (The Social War) to force Rome to annex them (yes you read that right, they fought Rome to make Rome take them over which is like the opposite of why wars are historically fought).
Rome won the Social war, but ended up giving them what they wanted anyway. Rome annexed the territory and granted everyone in Italy Roman citizenship.
The video really doesn't explain WHY Sparta fell. By far the main problem they faced was the steady decline of spartiates due to the aberrant familiar and economic dynamics of Spartan society, and you didn't even touch that topic. Had they kept even a steady population I find it hard to think that they would have fallen so easily, as they had indeed the only fully professional army of ancient Greece. Also, you mispronounced Epaminondas name... that guy was undoubtedly among the greatest of the ancient greeks.
Spartan has fallen!
Alexios: MALAKA
Arthur: calm down boah
Alexios: who are you calling boy?
Kratos: you calling my boi?
I think it’s an oversight that you didn’t mention Salamis or Sparta’s role in alienating Themistokles from Athens: explains the awkward growing tensions between the two city states after the Second Persian War and before the Peloponnesian War. Also the lack of the 30 Tyrants here fails to mention Spartas inability to enforce the oligarchic style of the Spartan image
Are you making a conscious effort to mispronounce a lot of the words in this video?
This was produced and voiced by North Koreans, so give him a break.
@@pendejo6466 I actually laughed at that randomness. Just the other day I typed that Hitler was the Sultan of the Hittite Empire.
Shaddup.
Neverlandia something you will never be
I could only take 3 minutes of it
Glad your using BC and AD! Great video btw
I came here for Sparta under the Roman and Eastern-Roman empires, not to have their end be such a footnote.
Sparta indeed existed in later centuries,but in 14th century,i believe so,was abandoned and the population fled to the near castle of Mestra,because of war.
R.I.P SPARTA 😔
LETS GO!
Loss of Greek culture is huge, their ideologies are way better than medieval one's
Sparta will never fall. We're still here!!! 😎
Yall suck compared to Macedonias
Sold out, betrayed by internal enemies
What kind of propaganda you have been feed?
Herdsmen and other people show it on the back way to get behind the lines sold out, internally
Spartans respected their old people.
Because they live long enough to survive many brutal trainings and battles.
1:43 "Foenchia"? LOL. Bro, I think you mean Phoenicia, pronounced "Fo-eh-nee-shee-ah" in English, although the Greek pronunciation, like a lot of English words for ancient terms, is with a hard "k" sound, "Fo-eh-nee-kee-yah". In either case the Phoenicians of the ancient Levant were the Semitic ancestors of the Punic Carthaginians to the West.
After Rome conquered Sparta, the city seems to have disappeared.
True sparta wasn't around they never actually faught the romans
Wtf i live in sparta... I was born at a hospital in the city of Tripoli which is near sparta. Get some info idiots
Sparta's own way of doing things, how their society functioned was not suitable for heavy military losses. They were also riding on a long held reputation instilling fear into their enemies. That is, until some chads from Thebes came in and changed Sparta's fortunes permanently.
So, 75% of this video isn't even about the topic that the video's named after. When I click on a video that says "Why did Sparta Collapse" I expect to hear why Sparta collapsed.
There were less than 400 Spartiates at Leuctra according to a few sources I’ve used.
@@GilleanFreire yes but only a few hundreds were spartiates.
All Spartans are great warriors boy!
"They collapsed because they were all too busy bumming eachother" Socrates
Sparta was destroyed when Germany came down, yelling "PAY DEBT" and the Greeks ran away in their submarine.
You mean the money Germany owns to Greece?
didn't Greece get a loan from Germany?
@@DoctorFail In the past decades but Germany loaned big time in the name of Greece at ww2 which plus war reparations that were never paid make the German debt around 167 billion euros today.
Thanasis Sideris weird how Germany expects Greece to pay them back for that submarine then
oh yea, "Holocaust denial"
It is 4 in the morning and for some reason im still awake watching this
10:13 ... Ummm That was an interesting pronunciation of the word epitome. lol
Might want to try that one more time.
He had creative pronunciations for several words.
@@dave29123 thermopalye had me fucked up lmao
I don’t think the narrator’s a native American English speaker is he? His “T”s are too emphasized
There needs to be more on Sparta as a society in decline before the collapse of its empire. How and why did it happen? What were the social dynamics?
Maybe a sequel?
Once Sparta was really on the forefront in the mainstream media. And I did like it, but your thirst also get sated at some point and you move on. Then a decade later you revisit and dig a little bit deeper than the surface level and you then realize that Sparta were a very obscure culture and very unique. Totally against the grain and what was considered normal at the time and were its complete own thing. I love founding cultures like that. I once read about a culture also doing ancient times and I think it was on the Iberian peninsula where they didn’t have a leader figure at all, but when shit hits the fan and it was necessary someone will rise up to the occasion and take the whelm temporarily. It’s cool to discover the obscene’s one.
fyi history teachers and students: The Theban general is pronounced E-PAM-IN-ON-DAS
Yep, in this video they forgot to mention that the Spartan elders were like today's Nazis, deeming some children to death only for being lightweight or a bit short. Non-Spartans could never earn Spartan rights even if they were born there and served under their command in battle. Their over-masculine warrior culture became hopelessly mysogenic and the Spartans were rarely allowed to go home and sleep with their wives. Being racist and without enough offspring to fill the ranks, when the Romans finally arrived, there were only 500 Spartan soldiers left. The Spartans had no choice, but being absorbed by Rome.
Toynbee considered the Spartans to consist of 'a civilization within a civilization'...their history, like their society, was vastly more complicated than depicted in these podcasts and indeed, in most history books. There is a lot more to them than meets the eye.
"Ther-mah-pol-lay"
"Ee-pit-oh-mē"
Also, Phoenicia " Fo-nee-she-uh"
Sweet mother of god, thank you.
@John M Thermopylae - the /mo/ is stressed, and the closest English version would be Ther-MAW-puh-lay.The -ly ending would have been the ancient way - Thermopylae is anyway a rendition through Latin, Greek would write -ai, later changing to eh (not -ay). Now it's Θερμοπύλες, ther-mo-Pee-les.
The Greek o is short or long, and long means more like 'aw', or the o before r, as in MORe. The oh in English is a diphthong, containing 2 different vowels, Greek spelling more like oü. But 'Thermohpylae' is still closer to the Greek original than 'ThermAh(?!)pylae'. A bit exotic, but recognizable.
But it never was Ther-MA-puh-lay/la-ee: that would spell Thermapylae. They especially kept/keep these apart, because /a/ meant feminine ending (though -eh/ee was more common), and /o/ was linked to /os/, the masculine ending.
@John M That aw is closer, the original, and the British way (though they say it short).That is, if it's not merged with ah as in mop, or father, start; as in some dialects. So aw would be better - because that is actually what most languages call and recognize as a long O. It's not 'just etymology'.
But I do understand if AmE has chosen to use the vowel of mop etc. in that position. It corresponds the British short o - that is, an actual short o. Which is the o, short or long, that Greek has.
While I also know, that in some dialects 'la' and 'law' sound the same, mostly they don't: mostly aw is a type of o sound, really a long o sound, just lower starting point compared to the ''long o' in gO.
The sound that (American) English calls long o - is not not a monophthong, not simply just o sound made long. The language used is not the same in the basic education in school, as in professional linguistics. It's not really a long o, that expression is a language specific tradition (letters confuse here) - it's actually a diphthong, aka 'glide' (combo of 2 vowels), like in the words sOUl, sOle, gOAL, tOE, gO or shOW etc.
It's just unfortunate, coz the American 'ah' sounds so off from Greek, especially mixingthe /o/ (letter) with the /a/ in Greek. So it risks confusing the feminine and masculine words - in modern language, not just etymologically.
If it would be just a coloring effect, like an accent, I wouldn't comment on it. Like how the 'short a' is said - like map, drag, stamp etc. But here's a risk of confusion.
But yeah, European (based) languages tend to use language specific names of the names of the Antiquity - like James for Jacob, Anthony for Antonius, Ulysses for Odysseus.
@John M Yes and no.
No: Modern (Standard) British English has a short o in stop, mop etc. This same vowel is in both the BrE or the AmE spOrt - the r has helped to save the vowel value. by length it's more like long than short, in most dialects. Think some Irish I've heard saying it short, so curt with the vowel.
Yes: In the modern AmE there's no short o - the words stop, mop etc. have the vowel value of 'ah', as in fAther, or stArt - as we established earlier.
And it's true that modern Greek doesn't have a distinction anymore between omikron and omega. Nowadays both can be long or short, depending where the stress falls in the word. The reason words like Thermopyle get the short o in BrE is because it's the omikron there, which of course used to be the short in Greek, as we can see the name implying.
Just the vowel value is still about the same, the one in the English spOrt - or jAW etc. are also recognizable as such. And in Greek it has to be kept apart from the a in stArt.
The words like soul, go etc. they'd need to write like soül, goü etc., otherwise they would same them close like 'sool, gaw'.
Long vowels are often susceptible to changes, has happened in many languages. So the English 'long o' used to be that. It still is that in many Scottish English, or Northern British English, and many Irish dialects: go sounding like 'gaw'.
In some Scottish dialects they say go like 'guo', as wells as vein they say as 'vien' - might be heard as it was written 'veern' (withour audible r). So the vowels come in the opposite order than in the majority of English dialects. Must be hard to recognize them at first.