Hey Dave i would like to add Bruckners 8th. I remember being an emtional rollercoaster highs and lows...joy to tears. I was tired after listening...but happy
Love your list, Dave. Excellent. So interesting your thoughts on Pettersson’s Symphony 8. Once absorbing that, brave new listeners should turn to Pettersson’s previous two symphonies, 7, and 6. Then they will have a superb trilogy of the darkest materials ever. Add to this, Pettersson’s Violin Concerto No. 2, and you may never return to life!
First of all, I’m glad that Pettersson is mentioned at all because few people are familiar with his music and I believe he is worth being discovered. The 8th was actually the first one I ever listened to. I can’t really explain why, but for me it’s his 6th and 9th I keep coming back to.
As a diehard Brucknerite, I'd have to add his monumental 8th to the 9th, emotionally draining for different reasons. Emotionally uplifting and glorious. I would also add a Sibelius symphony in there.
Thanks Dave, I’ll check out the Suk, Nielsen, Haydn, and Honegger. I love all the other pieces you mentioned. Side note: I’m a 24yo horn player/conductor and love your videos. I’m happy to be a part of this community of passionate weirdos like myself!!
Ibert’s La Ballade de la Geôle de Reading always leaves me drained despite its short lenght. The subject matter is so chilling that once the piece is over I have to take a long break before I can listen to anything else.
I never listened Honegger Symphony 3. Now I listened. Love it a lot. Thank you for your introduction, David. I think R Strauss Metamophosen is a very emotionally draining work. But it is a string work.
Thank you Dave! Great choices! If I may add, 2 perhaps not so obvious works. In that the emotions are more subtle, but leave me drained, if the performance is stellar. First Brahms symphony number 4. The slightly melancholic first movement, the dreamy second movement of to me memories, reminisces, and the finale, of a grim inexorable feeling of unfeeling void and despair. Second, vaughan williams fith symphony in a different emotional feeling of drainage. The work based of the spiritual journey of the pilgrams progress, and its vision of the perfect spiritual state, but tinged with a I know odd feeling of melancholic hope. A great performance can bring a tear or two. Always brings memories of lost loved ones. Paul
Thanks Dave for this great list. Just off the top of my head I would add: Mozart: Maurerische Trauermusik Fauré: Pelleas et Melisande suite Sibelius: Fourth Symphony Ives: Orchestral Set N.2 Villa-Lobos: Bachianas Brasileiras N. 4 Britten: Sinfonia da Requiem Scelsi: Aion
“So that when aliens come in the year ….. they think we can stay on topic” - Yes that is important. One of your greatest gut-busters EVER! I saw a video of Abbado, in his later days, doing the Mahler 9th, which as it drew to its close the house lights gradually dimmed, to black out.
Thanks for this video. I still remember I heard the Honneger's Liturgical Symphony in the concert for the first time... (Czech Phil, not quite sure whether Serge Baudo or Libor Pešek). I suspected nothing when I went to the concert, yet I was crying when I was about to leave, too. And here, one more suggestion (it is really a concert, not a purely orchestral work): Alfred Schnittke, Violin concerto No 3.
Uncle Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies. Geez, I would have thought that Metamorphosen would be in your top ten a priori - it was not to be. I laud your inclusion of the Seven Last Words over more schmaltzy alternatives.. Best wishes, B
10 most emotionally draining piano works or 10 greatest piano works in general? I would love to see more piano related music on this channel. I love your work.
Someone may have already mentioned it, but I’d add the Prokofiev 6 symphony. The start of the last movement always strikes me as an attempt to go on in the face horrific inhumanity, in fact its opening theme reminds me of a happy bouncing puppy. By the end of the movement though, that puppy turns into another dog of war.
Great list Dave. I agree on Shostakovich 8 what a devastating piece ! I would add Sibelius 4 Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra especially the first movement which is so full of anguish and Prokofiev 3 the one related with his opera The Fiery Angel.
Thanks again for a great video and wonderful list. As I listened, the work that came to mind for me was Sibelius's 7th. I think it's a function of time--so much emotion concentrated into the space of 20 minutes. That final crush of C Major is at once exhilarating and exhausting.
Tchaikovskys 6th broke me. I saw it live with the Vienna philharmonics and Valery (now not so relevant anymore haha) Gergiev, about 2 days before he stopped performing (Or was stopped to be fair). It may have been his second last or last concert, but I dont know. But now to the music. I listened to the Symphony once before, but it didnt really catch me that time. After the final movement with the Vienna phil, Gergiev left around 1:30 min of total silence and I started sobbing like a baby. The whole thing just portrayed the process of dying in such a heart-wrenching way, it felt like my heart was torn into pieces and smashed through the ground while looking death itself straight in the eye with a kind of fear I never experienced before. It had such an impact on me, I could barely walk out of the concert hall without passing out. Similar thing with Mahlers 2nd. My local orchestra (The "Essener Philharmoniker") played it with the whole shebang. a second orchestra, massive choir and so on. It was devastating. They were loud, they had so much fun playing it and the interpretation was stellar. I was so overwhelmed by the thing that I didnt show any reaction until it was over. I just sat there transfixed in my chair holding my breath because it was so impactful. After the performance, when all the clapping was done, I collapsed into my seat and started crying for like 10 minutes until the staff kicked me and my friend out of the hall. I was literally speechless. On the way home I did not say a word, it really broke me. I couldnt believe that I could feel so deeply moved by anything. Nothing had an emotional impact on my like that performance had.
When I listened to Mahler's 6th for the first time that final fortissimo chord (which I was totally not expecting) felt like I just got stabbed in the heart! So you are totally right about it being exhilarating
Thanks a lot for that, Dave. Even after 70+ years of record collecting, I am always on the look out for new worthwhile musical experiences and you have been very helpful in pointing me towards some. This time its Allan Pettersson, a name which was not previously on my radar screen. I have just ordered from Amazon a BIS coupling of his 8th and 10th symphonies. If the music is in the same league as the other 9 which you list, it must be really something. Other delights which you have helped me to find or rediscover have come from your reviews of the Roussel, Poulenc and Fauré boxes as well as of lesser known works on Chandos and Hyperion. Keep it up!
I have always found that Britten's violin concerto's final movement leaves me totally drained. I learnt it with the Grumlikova on Supraphon, but also love Vengerov's.
I have always found Mahler's 10th to be even more draining than the 9th. If the 9th takes us to death's door, the 10th takes us beyond. That final movement is so scary. The scream, naturally, but also that recurring violin theme. It's almost Lovecraftian, particularly in Cooke's stark orchestration. Truly unsettling.
This was another very enjoyable talk, on an unusual subject. I smiled when you started with Tchai6 - my most favourite of all, of anything. The final movement is obviously the main emotionally draining part but what about the climax of the development section before the coda in the first movement. If a conductor and orchestra do it well then the hairs will stand up on the back of your neck. I see a few mentions of Mahler2. I would agree. There are several moments which bring a lump to my throat, mainly in the finale, to name three: the repeat of the opening motif but on the brass about 10mins in or so, obviously the moment will full forces "Aufersteh'n, ja aufersteh'n wirst du, Mein Staub, nach kurzer Ruh!" but also the climax in the finale when a good conductor will beckon the choir to rise up and stand at the height of the crescendo. Amazing. Agree about Mahler9... Utterly draining. Some others that have evoked emotion in me over the years (more than others) are kind of in two camps... Dark: Tapiola - can be terrifying Metamorphosen - I rarely listen to it because it is quite hard to Light: Good Friday Music - I'm not a huge fan of Wagner but I saw Claudia Abbado conduct a performance of this at the Proms about 15yrs ago. He has very frail and perhaps that played a part. The Mahler Chamber Orchestra played it beautifully and it was just a joy to listen to RVW Tallis Fantasia - Silvestri. Nothing more to say. Stunning.
Guillaume Lekeu's "Adagio pour quatuor d'orchestre" always gets me emotionally. Its music building to climaxes that ultimately fall apart in a matter of seconds and an utterly bleak and emotionally taxing ending, what can I say, it leaves me drained every time.
Great topic, great video. My own sense of what is "draining" is more like what "uses up" one's deep well of emotion - when a gas tank is drained, the car has used it to go somewhere; the exhaustion marks some kind of accomplishment or voyage; there has been a point to it all. Something in me has been tapped, even tapped out, but a depth has been sounded, and the emptying-out has been to some end. On the works, I agree with the draining quality of each and every one. BUT, my personal experience of Bruckner 9 is, well, maybe just personal: for most of my life I would have called it my favorite, most personally draining, of all symphonies, and the most emotionally "complete" of all, precisely in the sense that Dave describes, and the sense that Shostakovich models in his 4th Symphony. AND YET, while granting that in the form left to us it is aesthetically compromised to say the least, still somewhere in the wreck of the finale there is something unbearably powerful, transcendentally suggestive, and now, for me personally at least, necessary. AND ALSO, to my own personal list I would add Sibelius Symphony No. 4 and Peter Maxwell Davies Symphony No. 2.
Great list Dave, thank you. I personally would add: Myaskovsky: Symphony no. VI Rachmaninoff: Symphony no. I Glazunov: The Sea or Symphony no. VI Lyatoshynsky: Symphony no. III Skulte: Symphony no. V Atterberg: Symphony no. III Schmidt: Symphony no. IV Beethoven: Symphony no. V Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe (symphonie choreographique) Bax: Symphony no. II or VI Walton: Symphony no. I Vaughn-Williams: Symphony no. VI Sainton: The Island Braga-Santos: Symphony no. IV Tubin: Symphony no. IV Hanson: Symphony no. I Copland: Symphony no. III
Many of these are interesting, and real connoiseur's picks (Schmidt! Bax! Atterberg! For Rachmaninov, I would rather put Symphonic dances, but I see your point). Of course, not every average listener of things Classical would remember most of these pieces. But an attempt could be well rewarded!
To me, works like Walton's first symphony and Atterberg's third (fantastic stuff) feel exhilarating rather than deflating -- overcoming the odds through determination.
Thank you so much for your interesting and plausible suggestions. I'd also like to mention: - Mozart's Masonic Funeral Music - Schubert's "The Death and the Maiden" (arr. by Mahler) - Schmidt's 4th Symphony - Tournemire's 8th Symphony "Le triomphe de la mort"
Say what you will about the idiom in which he wrote it, but Gorecki's symphony no 3 absolutely drained me by the end of it. When I first heard it, live, the hypnotic textures had had some sort of lulling effect on me, and the sounds of the unison polyphonic strings began to sound not as an ensemble, but as a corporate entity, like a massive, swelling organ. When the harmony switched near the end of the third movement modulated from minor to major, I instantly wept, like the shift had triggered some sort of primal emotional reflex I had no control over. I imagine that others' mileage may vary, depending upon how the music strikes them. It might only have that effect on me.
I’m surprised no one has plumped for the addition of some of the works that generate quite passionate swings of mood for me; those that make you feel as if you have been on a completely realised journey. Elgar 2, Schumann 2, Beethoven 3, Brahms 3. All of these have that slightly feverish, neurotic quality that you can really absorb into your soul as you experience the sound rushing through you. Shostakovich’s Violin Concerto No 1 does it for me too. I don’t dispute anything on DH’s list though
I always enjoy being drained by Martinu 3rd and 6th. He must have been so homesick while writing both. He always opens the heaven for a few bars and then falls to an even darker mood. The piano chords closing the 3rd are an example of pure musical cruelty; closing of the 6th makes me peacefully hopeless.
Splendid! If I am playing a record or going to a concert, I know and are prepared. In old days with good radio stations, I have have been blowed away (like your radiocollega) many times, unprepared to what hit my ears and soul. My thoughts about good arts, is that the composer, painter etc are going to so deep, places where normal people should stay away. The Arts tells us, what they have seen and felt. It is a dangerous job, some never came back.
I'd also suggest Mahler's 10th Symphony, both the opening Movement as a standalone, but expecially the whole Work as completed by Deryck Cooke. I know it's not 100% by Mahler, albeit he left us with such extensive drafts we can argue it still is one of the most faithful reconstructions/completions of an unfinished Work, but still it's something wonderous, and of the deepest possible emotional expression.
Great stuff! Here's my picks (no list of emotionally draining orchestral works would be complete without at least some film music): 1) Mahler Symphony 9 2) Bruckner Symphony 9 3) Tchaikovsky Symphony 6 4) Rachmaninov Symphony 2 5) Strauss Tod und Verklärung 6) Schoenberg Verklärte Nacht 7) Bernard Herrmann - Vertigo 8) John Williams - Schindler’s List 9) James Horner - Braveheart 10) John Barry - Dances with Wolves
A great list! The pieces I would add are Vaughan Williams sixth symphony, the second movement of the barber violin concerto,’s and the Britten sinfonia da requiem. I’m excited to hear your vocal list! Being a Choral Conductor, two things popped into my head immediately, but I realized I would be out of order by mentioning them. Thanks for your thought-provoking and entertaining videos!
Absolutely the Britten Sinfonia da Requiem, I just heard it again a week ago and with the same experience that led him to create it. Really purging. Speaking of which, without being presumptuous I can guess one of the choral works you might have in mind.
Lots of great suggestions here. Two of my favourites are short pieces. Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite No. 1, "Åse's Death" and Holst Planets "Bringer of Old Age"
Sibelius 4 I dont know .nor the Suk. Hearing you talk about him I will have to getto know it ! Pettersson isgreat great music-7 and 8 I adore .Nielsen I should knowby now! Honegger too. Messiaen should be on this list.Turangalila is fullof joy .
Wonderful list. I don't know a few of the pieces, but will definitely give them a listen. My addition would be just 2 - and these have drained me emotionally. 1. Mahler: Symphony No. 5 2. Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5 In both cases, by the time I have reached the end of the last movement, I feel completely emotionally drained and exhilarated as well.
Elgar's first symphony deserves a mention, a very urgent piece, and the slow movement is intense too. Elgar himself conducted a passionate performance.
I love this list. And I love David (don’t tell my wife). The inclusion of Bruckner 9 and Shostakovich 8 and Mahler 9 gives this list total validity for me. Personally I would have added Schubert 8, unfinished. I was tempted to say “you forgot Schubert 8” just to be ornery. I find these videos very entertaining. Thanks David.
The first that came to my mind when reading the video title was actually Wangner's Tristan und Isolde Vorspiel und Liebestod, which has been recorded as an orchestral piece quite a thousand times. But I only like recordings of it that maintain a high dynamic range, that means starting with low volume and building up to get louder and louder, these are the real intense ones, like Solti with Chicago, for example.
Fantastic list Dave, and I can't agree more that the Mahler 9th has to be the "one". I am not as familiar with Honegger's 3rd as I am with all the other works you listed. Looking forward to re-visiting that one with this recommendation in mind. I'll add a bunch to the list that I think are emotionally draining: Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto No. 2... super famous but still emotionally draining every time. Elgar - Cello Concerto (I know you're favorite... you're missing out on this one Dave ;) Wagner - Tristan Prelude and Liebestod ... I really thought this would be in your list. Sibelius - Symphony No. 5..... maybe not "draining" but very affecting Mahler - Symphony 10... I know having a third Mahler work in the list wouldn't make sense, but that Adagio my god Ravel - Piano Concerto in G.... This work takes you all over the place emotionally. I always feel transformed when I listen to it from beginning to end. Bach - St Matthew Passion... for me there are moments in this work that are emotionally intense in a way that wasn't approached until the Romantic. By the way Dave, it would be great to also do 10 most emotionally draining works that are not orchestral or vocal... ie Piano and chamber.
I am surprised no mention yet of Pärt's Stabat Mater. I first heard it back around 1987 or so. I had to stay very late at work one night and didn’t leave until around midnight. I got in my car, the radio was tuned to the classical station and a piece was playing; just a violin, viola and cello - so mournful. It kept building, wordless vocals, then singing in Latin broken up by more sorrowful but at other times manic instrumental interludes. I recognized the text but had never heard such an austere arrangement. I kept driving home through the nearly empty streets and pulled into my driveway. The piece was still going. I sat for another two or so minutes while the piece ended. I had to know who wrote this. Yet, when it ended I felt unable to move - so emotionally draining was this music - that I continued to sit in my car for several more minutes. Pärt had captured through his music the essence of the hollowness one feels after witnessing the crucifixion. I am not knocking the pieces mention in the video. I know them all, but Pärt's Stabat Mater truly belongs in the top ten.
What a great idea for a video. It’s hard for me to contain myself, as I have vowed to do. My first thought was, “He is going to mention Pettersson.” But you also hit my expectations with regards to the Mahler and Bruckner picks, and the stupendous Shostakovich 8th. The essential thing I need to tell you is how moved I was by your eloquence in explaining the Nielsen 5th. I have missed the mark. I’ll start all over with it tomorrow. My own additions to the list: The Vaughn Williams 4th symphony, Mahler’s 10th symphony, Malcolm Arnold’s 9th symphony. Here is something unconventional:: When I am in my deepest depression, serial music makes sense to me, and I often listen to Schoenberg’s violin concerto. The strain of staying focused is in itself cathartic. I’ll be checking out the Suk (who knew?), the Haydn, and the Honegger. What terrific suggestions. Thank you, David. This post is still way too long.
Thank you Dave. One man who was entitled to conduct Mahler 9 and extract every ounce of drainage from it through personal experience was Karel Ancerl. I cannot play this disc without equating the man with the music and consequently it gets to me each and every time .
No substraction, only additions: Sibelius "Tapiola", Hartmann "Kammerkonzert for Clarinet...", and save from the 4th all the other purely orchestral symphonies composed by Mahler, but the 6th, 9th and the 10th are the most emotionally draining of those.
There are two works I consider draining and powerful, namely Holmboe's Symphony No. 8 and Tubin's Symphony No. 2. The Holmboe's Sinfonia Boreale has a raw intensity that is perceived through its 4 movements, and the ending couldn't be more dramatic and visionary at once. It always has me at the edge of my seat; the Tubin also has this powerful natural element to it that is so appealing to me. After many moments of struggle and urgency, it ends with a sort of cold atmosphere, like depicting a frozen landscape, rather in the vein of its "legendary" title. Just remembered another one that suits the topic video: Schnittke's Cello Concerto No. 1 (if concertos are allowed). For me, it represents the epitome of drainage, what an incredibly intense piece of music. The last minutes are simply devastating.
I was going to mention Holmboe 8 but Sinfonia in Memoriam edged it out. I'm with you on Tubin 2 and I'd add Tubin 5. That apocalyptic finale knocks you back in your seat.
I was actually thinking about your avatar namesake, Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach Zarathustra" as well as Schnittke's "Collected Songs Where Every Verse Is Filled with Grief".
Splendid, Dave. And here's my two cents' worth: Berg's Violin Concerto; Bryars' Jesus' Blood Never Failed Me Yet (the original Obscure recording, not the Point Music remake with Tom Waits at the end); Ives' Orchestral Set no. 2; Sibelius' Tapiola; Vaughan Williams' Sixth Symphony.
I would add the Adagio from Mahler's unfinished 10th symphony, which to my ears rides the razor's edge between terrifying and sublime, a harrowing experience start to finish. A great one is Kurt Sanderling conducting Berlin Sym Orch in 1978 on Eterna, then reissued on Berlin Classics.
Mahler symphony 9 Tchaikovsky symphony 6 Shostakovich Symphony 8 Rachmaninov Isle of the dead Bartok Strings and celesta Scriabin Poem of ecstacy Mahler symphony 6 Shostakovich Symphony 13 Mahler symphony 3 (especially in the last movement when the horns come back with fury, it’s like a right hook amongst the heavenly music) Sibelius Symphony 4
Lutoslawski: Livre pour orchestra, and Cello Concerto. Dutilleux: The Shadows of Time. Haas: “in vain”. Shostakovich: Symphony 15. Reich: Different Trains. Husa: Music for Prague 1968.
I'm with you step for step on the first four and Bruckner 9, skipping Pettersson 8 only because I don't know it. Shostakovich 4 drains me incomparably more than 8 and after that I'd have to include Mozart's often bitterly angry, ultimately despairing K491, Sibelius 4 and Holmboe's majestically sorrowful Sinfonia in Memoriam.
I agree completely with Tchaikovsky #6. I just can’t handle the idea of the slow music ending the symphony when the 3rd movement is so brilliant and lively-and usually brings down the house anyway! (my sister asked why the encore was so slow!) I find the Shostakovich #5 to run through so many emotions that it can be quite draining (in all the right ways!) I’d like to see a similar list of operas.
Well, this was a tough one, but here´s a selection... - Arnold Symphony No 9 - Mahler Symphony No 10 - Gorecki Symphony No 3 (yeah I know, but let´s pretend there´s no Soprano in it) - Adams "Harmonielerhe" - Rubbra Symphony No 1 - Vaughan Williams Symphony No 3 & 5 (can´t choose just one) - Brahms Piano Concerto No 1 - Daugherty Violin Concerto No 2 "Fallingwater" - Kaljo Raid Symphony No 1 -Yoshimatsu "The Age of Birds"
My first encounter with Tchaikovsky's 6th in Russia was in St. Petersburg, at Piskarevskoe Memorial Cemetery. This is the site of mass graves for people who died in the Leningrad Blockade. Their remains are heaped under a series of enormous quadrilateral burial mounds covered with grass, almost like capped landfills. Even Stalin would have admired how much the arrangement makes wholesale death look so facelessly quantitative. On the way out, my wife and I were approached by a man in uniform with a cassette player. When he pressed a button, we heard the opening of the symphony's finale. The understanding was that we should pay him a little money, to supplement his low pay, and for the Tchaikovsky--a drop of personal agony to wash down all the mass-produced anonymity. This was almost thirty years ago, when there were more people looking for a side hustle to get a few more rubles. That only increased the sense of tragedy made pedestrian. The next encounter with the symphony was in a live performance by the State Academic Capella. At the end of the third movement, much of the audience broke out in applause, as if they had just heard a triumphant conclusion. Instead of waiting for this to just run its course, the conductor turned to the audience with irritation and impatience bordering on alarm. There were still some straggling claps when the strings burst out in the fourth movement, with an abruptness that only increased the sense of shock. I'd like to think this is what Tchaikovsky intended. The shock isn't just from how the movement bottoms out in the coda, but also the point-blank declaration at the beginning, with the pyrotechnics of the preceding movement still in our ears. This fourth movement was not like Bernstein's, not very slow, despairing or morose. It was much more lucid: less about the sadness of tragedy than meeting it head-on (like Lensky in "Evgeny Onegin"). I did go to a performance of Mahler's 6th when it was played in a free concert by a Harvard orchestra at Sanders Theater. While the first movement was in progress, a man walked into the hall and approached the orchestra. He was noticeably under the influence, maybe a war veteran drawn by the familiar tread of a march. When he got near the podium, he suddenly stiffened and, looking up at the conductor, gave salute. He was quickly shown out and, it seemed, with all the dispatch of someone being led to a firing squad.
Yes that's exactly my thoughts too - you must do a chamber music version of this video! On the top of my list will be Schubert's last Quartet No. 15 in G
For some reason, somewhere way back in the foggy depths of my memory, I seem to recall someone mentioning (probably a Gramophone review or something similar) that Karajan identified 3 works as the most "emotionally exhausting" (or something to that effect) to conduct. They were, Mahler 9 (of course), Sibelius 4, and Berg's 3 pieces. Embarrassingly, I don't think I've ever hear the Berg, but this list stuck with me because I think he was spot on about the Mahler and the Sibelius. Seems like Sibelius should have made the top 10, and hard to think of a better nominee than the 4th Symphony.
Sibelius 4th could be too austere for its own good... meaning, one must really pay attention to be captivated. I have been - and other times, have been not. The interpretation might be key in this one.
For me, Sibelius' Tapiola. The gaps of silence really are what do it. It also seems to describe nature and how it has complete disregard to what we think about it. All the violence just happens and their is nothing we can do about it. Listening to it is absolutely draining.
I heard Bernstein do the tchaik 6 at Ravinia. I think it was his last time there. It seemed even slower than the record, but even on the lawn you could have heard a pin drop.
Love this kind if talk! I agree with this list, Honegger and Suk are a nice choice; I wouldn't have immediately thought of them, but yeah...Rouse Symphony No 2 anyone???
Would you consider lists for solo instrumental works/chamber works? The Bach violin partita 2, the Beethoven Op 110 piano sonata and op 131 string quartet, the Schubert B-flat sonata (I could go on but I won't), can leave me a wreck.
A great list, but nobody seems to mention here, or even aware of, Reger's Symphonischer Prolog zu einer Tragödie op. 108, an incredibly emotional work.The end is to die for.
I know the list is designed to be diverse. But one could say every Bruckner symphony starting with #3 has a purgative, overwhelming effect. Interesting how we don't often listen to these overwhelming works, but that's also -- ironically -- a sign of their greatness. You're left so stunned, the human metabolism probably isn't designed to handle continual Stupendousness. They also say those who see Heaven don't live.
Pettersson 7 the Antal Dorati version bleeds me dry although moments of sheer beauty lift it. Drains the drains. Totally agree with Nielsen 5 that 1st mvt is a battle unresolved. The finale is genuinely earth shattering, a tug of war especially when heard live; I was only 20 feet from the orchestral players stunning immersion! Slow movement of Elgar 2 takes the biscuit for me, leaves me shaken and riveted with depths of feeling the music reaches. It swoops down then recovers then plunges into the abyss again. Sorry words can't express check out the 1940s recording by Boult.
I have found that MacMillan's take on the 7 last words from the cross has the biggest emotional drainage to music ratio for me. It leaves me completely shell shock every single time, and by the end I literally have to remind myself to breathe.
This is a great list, Dave. I remember hearing Mahler 6 for the first time when I was a freshman at Eastman. Completely overwhelming and I came away wondering how any composer could tap into one’s emotions so acutely. A few other “tune’s” I might add: - Strauss - Death and Transfiguration - Mahler 8th - Prokofiev - Romeo & Juliet - Messaien- Et exspecto in resurrectionem mortuorum
Das Lied von der Erde...Strictly orchestral? Nope... Strictly vocal? Nope... Doesn't matter...The distinction is semantic..Is the piece emotionally draining? Absolutely!... Mahler achieves the trifecta!
great chat! I'm just too chicken for Lenny's Pathetic. Call me pathetic. I would include Schubert's Unfinished, especially the second movement. I'm going to check out Suk's Asrael symphony.
Thanks again for these great suggestions. Naturally I concur about Mahler’s Ninth: it’s really just a killer. I am just now getting to know the Martinů. Personally I find it a bit cerebral somehow (is it the “neo-classical” style, if that is even a suitable characterization?). But really, “cerebral” is certainly not bad in any way; lots of music is. It is just that I do not find myself especially moved. The angst in the Martinů - and what a load of it there is! - does not penetrate my heart. Sometimes it seems like a frenetic beehive under attack, and I just can’t bring myself to feel sorry for the poor bees. (Or perhaps the bees are mid-20th century urbanites.) But one thing I have noticed about Martinů is that his **endings** (both of pieces and of movements) are extremely fine. As you discussed in your “timing problem” video, it is such a tricky thing to end a piece, or end a movement, in just the right way,. But to my ears Martinů consistently arrives at an almost perfect and virtually magical solution, at least in what I have heard of his music. Has anyone else noticed the same thing? It is said that he imagined whole works in his mind before writing them, and this might explain this tendency. Your ever devoted fan.
Drainage? Franz Schmidt's 4th Symphony..but only in a great performance such as Mehta's VPO on Decca ('71). "Draining", though in a metaphysical, lofty and resigned way, as if its tragedy "purifies" and removes us from earthly existence. Sound corny? You decide. But you've got to have Mehta, and be in the right mood. Turn off the phone, dim the lights, pull down the shades, make sure you're surrounded by absolute silence.... LR (Great list, Suk! Honegger ~ civilization destroyed, and the glimmer of hope that rises from the ashes).
Although I agree that Mahler's 6th and 9th deserve to be on your list, the first two movements of his fifth are for me the most emotionally draining of his purely instrumental symphonies even though this work ends on a positive note. I would consider Vaughan Williams' 4th and Prokofiev's 3rd on the list also. I am so glad you included the Shostakovich 8th and the Tchaikovsky 6th as you point out is obvious. I need to introduce myself to Josef Suk's "Asrael Symphony" and thank you for that.
I was fully expecting the "Asrael" symphony, but not right away at No.2. What can one say... it has to be experienced at least once. It is the genuine darkness of human existence pierced finally by the light of ongoing life (just for a brief moment...). Plus, a shout-out for the inclusion of Haydn's "Seven Last Words". If nothing else, this one proves Haydn was the universal genius of his (or any) age. He blazed the path, and went beyond what was the norm. Powerful stuff. Most of the others, hard to argue against. I would probably include the Schubert 9th, for how all-encompassing it is in its totality; and Bruckner 8th, a real roller-coaster (mostly a slow one, but the better for making those emotions work); Smetana's "Ma Vlast" COULD be there, for its epic scope, sense of history and the final peroration, combining the Vysehrad theme with the Hussite / Blanik theme, just goosebumps (listen, e. g., to the slowed-down Harnoncourt version, that finale comes through hard!); finally - Mahler 2nd, not a surprise; in the best renditions (it is not easy to get really right!) it's the ultimate tour de force of wandering through darkness and arriving at the triumphant light. Including that would give the good Gustav 1/3 of the full drainage list - and would be on point! P. S.: Interesting that Beethoven was not mentioned once, I guess we are drained to the limit by an overdose of his fabulous music... I still swear by the Allegretto of the 7th, ever the most emotional for this listener.
Hello David ! May I suggest al list of most memorable, unexpected MOMENTS ( with samples if possible ) in classical music. Always a pleasure to watch your content.
Strauss Metamorphosen Berg Violin Concerto Vaughan Williams Symphonies 4 and 6 (each draining in very different ways). And it doesn't all have to be Romantic or 20th century. Besides the Seven Last Words, Haydn Symphonies 44, 45, 49. Mozart Symphony 40. Once we get to chamber works the possibilities are endless, like Mendelssohn's Op.80 which is less a quartet than a suicide note in music.
VW6, its finale is imho the utmost draining piece of music ever..(the 4th is still very active at it's end), and Sibelius 4.. I'm surprised Dave didn't mention these, but he knows them and has his reasons, and he has to choose for 10 amongst many.
I agree completely with everything on your list. However, I would suggest one supplement for Josef Suk: "A Summer's Tale." The two works are very different. The Azrael Symphony is dramatic, tragic and exciting, while the Summer Tale has more of a "died and gone to heaven" feeling. I deliberately do not listen to it very often, as I'm afraid that familiarity might spoil it. .
Not sure if you’ll have a separate list for film music, but Takemitsu’s score for Kurosawa’s film Ran matches the bleakness of the story. It’s not for nothing there’s a major sequence that’s just images and the music, not even diegetic sounds until an arrow figuratively and literally pierces through the drama.
I don't know what I would have left out from your list, David, because it was wonderful, but somewhere I would have to include the Rachmaninov "Isle of the Dead":
My List: (lists are fun)
1) Carter, Variations for Orchestra
2) Berg, Drei Orchesterstücke
3) Strauss, Metamorphosen
4) Mahler, Symphony No. 10
5) Rachmaninoff, Isle of the Dead
6) Webern, Passacaglia
7) Strauss, Tod und Verklärung
8) Schönberg, Pelleas und Melisande
9) Nørgard, Symphony No. 7
10) Harbison, Symphony No. 2
11) Shostakovich, Symphony No. 7
Rachmones. Great word. Thanks, Dave.
Hey Dave i would like to add Bruckners 8th. I remember being an emtional rollercoaster highs and lows...joy to tears. I was tired after listening...but happy
Love your list, Dave. Excellent. So interesting your thoughts on Pettersson’s Symphony 8. Once absorbing that, brave new listeners should turn to Pettersson’s previous two symphonies, 7, and 6. Then they will have a superb trilogy of the darkest materials ever. Add to this, Pettersson’s Violin Concerto No. 2, and you may never return to life!
First of all, I’m glad that Pettersson is mentioned at all because few people are familiar with his music and I believe he is worth being discovered. The 8th was actually the first one I ever listened to. I can’t really explain why, but for me it’s his 6th and 9th I keep coming back to.
As a diehard Brucknerite, I'd have to add his monumental 8th to the 9th, emotionally draining for different reasons. Emotionally uplifting and glorious. I would also add a Sibelius symphony in there.
I agree with you, the Bruckner 8th makes me weep. Nothing brings as much of a flood of interior feeling out to the surface like that one.
Thanks Dave, I’ll check out the Suk, Nielsen, Haydn, and Honegger. I love all the other pieces you mentioned.
Side note: I’m a 24yo horn player/conductor and love your videos. I’m happy to be a part of this community of passionate weirdos like myself!!
Keep on horning!
Ibert’s La Ballade de la Geôle de Reading always leaves me drained despite its short lenght. The subject matter is so chilling that once the piece is over I have to take a long break before I can listen to anything else.
I never listened Honegger Symphony 3. Now I listened. Love it a lot. Thank you for your introduction, David. I think R Strauss Metamophosen is a very emotionally draining work. But it is a string work.
Thank you Dave! Great choices! If I may add, 2 perhaps not so obvious works. In that the emotions are more subtle, but leave me drained, if the performance is stellar. First Brahms symphony number 4. The slightly melancholic first movement, the dreamy second movement of to me memories, reminisces, and the finale, of a grim inexorable feeling of unfeeling void and despair. Second, vaughan williams fith symphony in a different emotional feeling of drainage. The work based of the spiritual journey of the pilgrams progress, and its vision of the perfect spiritual state, but tinged with a I know odd feeling of melancholic hope. A great performance can bring a tear or two. Always brings memories of lost loved ones.
Paul
Thanks Dave for this great list. Just off the top of my head I would add:
Mozart: Maurerische Trauermusik
Fauré: Pelleas et Melisande suite
Sibelius: Fourth Symphony
Ives: Orchestral Set N.2
Villa-Lobos: Bachianas Brasileiras N. 4
Britten: Sinfonia da Requiem
Scelsi: Aion
“So that when aliens come in the year ….. they think we can stay on topic” - Yes that is important. One of your greatest gut-busters EVER! I saw a video of Abbado, in his later days, doing the Mahler 9th, which as it drew to its close the house lights gradually dimmed, to black out.
Thanks for this video. I still remember I heard the Honneger's Liturgical Symphony in the concert for the first time... (Czech Phil, not quite sure whether Serge Baudo or Libor Pešek). I suspected nothing when I went to the concert, yet I was crying when I was about to leave, too. And here, one more suggestion (it is really a concert, not a purely orchestral work): Alfred Schnittke, Violin concerto No 3.
Purgative and/or cathartic, some of these works are my favourites of all time.
Thanks for all the great introductions thus far!
Thank you very much for your kindness!
Uncle Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies. Geez, I would have thought that Metamorphosen would be in your top ten a priori - it was not to be. I laud your inclusion of the Seven Last Words over more schmaltzy alternatives.. Best wishes, B
The mosaiques string-quartet of the haydn 7 last words, oh my heaven
10 most emotionally draining piano works or 10 greatest piano works in general? I would love to see more piano related music on this channel. I love your work.
Someone may have already mentioned it, but I’d add the Prokofiev 6 symphony. The start of the last movement always strikes me as an attempt to go on in the face horrific inhumanity, in fact its opening theme reminds me of a happy bouncing puppy. By the end of the movement though, that puppy turns into another dog of war.
Great list Dave. I agree on Shostakovich 8 what a devastating piece ! I would add Sibelius 4 Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra especially the first movement which is so full of anguish and Prokofiev 3 the one related with his opera The Fiery Angel.
Thanks again for a great video and wonderful list. As I listened, the work that came to mind for me was Sibelius's 7th. I think it's a function of time--so much emotion concentrated into the space of 20 minutes. That final crush of C Major is at once exhilarating and exhausting.
Amazing list as always, Dave! May i suggest the opposite of this video, that is "Top 10 Emotionally Absent Pieces" or something like that 😉
Already done and coming soon.
That could be one really long list! So much to choose from.
How about Top Ten Pieces That Are "Meh"?
Ravel - Le Jardin Feerique from Mother Goose. I have to be sitting down...
Karajan's performance of Honegger's Symphony no. 3 penetrates the soul - the 2nd movement in particular
Thank you so much for that insight, because before today I hadn't been aware of it.
I would add Franz Schmidt's 4th Symphony and Valentin Silvestrov's 5th.
Tchaikovskys 6th broke me. I saw it live with the Vienna philharmonics and Valery (now not so relevant anymore haha) Gergiev, about 2 days before he stopped performing (Or was stopped to be fair). It may have been his second last or last concert, but I dont know. But now to the music. I listened to the Symphony once before, but it didnt really catch me that time. After the final movement with the Vienna phil, Gergiev left around 1:30 min of total silence and I started sobbing like a baby. The whole thing just portrayed the process of dying in such a heart-wrenching way, it felt like my heart was torn into pieces and smashed through the ground while looking death itself straight in the eye with a kind of fear I never experienced before. It had such an impact on me, I could barely walk out of the concert hall without passing out.
Similar thing with Mahlers 2nd. My local orchestra (The "Essener Philharmoniker") played it with the whole shebang. a second orchestra, massive choir and so on. It was devastating. They were loud, they had so much fun playing it and the interpretation was stellar. I was so overwhelmed by the thing that I didnt show any reaction until it was over. I just sat there transfixed in my chair holding my breath because it was so impactful. After the performance, when all the clapping was done, I collapsed into my seat and started crying for like 10 minutes until the staff kicked me and my friend out of the hall. I was literally speechless. On the way home I did not say a word, it really broke me. I couldnt believe that I could feel so deeply moved by anything. Nothing had an emotional impact on my like that performance had.
Thanks for sharing you experiences. I can well imagine!
When I listened to Mahler's 6th for the first time that final fortissimo chord (which I was totally not expecting) felt like I just got stabbed in the heart! So you are totally right about it being exhilarating
That final fortissimo chord feels like someone fell off a cliff to his death.
Thanks a lot for that, Dave. Even after 70+ years of record collecting, I am always on the look out for new worthwhile musical experiences and you have been very helpful in pointing me towards some. This time its Allan Pettersson, a name which was not previously on my radar screen. I have just ordered from Amazon a BIS coupling of his 8th and 10th symphonies. If the music is in the same league as the other 9 which you list, it must be really something. Other delights which you have helped me to find or rediscover have come from your reviews of the Roussel, Poulenc and Fauré boxes as well as of lesser known works on Chandos and Hyperion. Keep it up!
Glad to be of use!
I have always found that Britten's violin concerto's final movement leaves me totally drained. I learnt it with the Grumlikova on Supraphon, but also love Vengerov's.
Maybe Rachamaninov’s #1? The ending is an emotional avalanche.
I have always found Mahler's 10th to be even more draining than the 9th. If the 9th takes us to death's door, the 10th takes us beyond. That final movement is so scary. The scream, naturally, but also that recurring violin theme. It's almost Lovecraftian, particularly in Cooke's stark orchestration. Truly unsettling.
I thought about that...
I agree! I dont know why, but No. 10 has always hit me harder than the 9th...
I agree. The coda of the first movement, and the hammer blows at the end of the 4th, start of 5th movements
@@stephenjcarr1 Correction: bass drum shots that sound like hammer blows. Supposedly part of a Mahler memory of a fireman's funeral in NYC.
I'll second that emotion.
This was another very enjoyable talk, on an unusual subject.
I smiled when you started with Tchai6 - my most favourite of all, of anything. The final movement is obviously the main emotionally draining part but what about the climax of the development section before the coda in the first movement. If a conductor and orchestra do it well then the hairs will stand up on the back of your neck.
I see a few mentions of Mahler2. I would agree. There are several moments which bring a lump to my throat, mainly in the finale, to name three: the repeat of the opening motif but on the brass about 10mins in or so, obviously the moment will full forces
"Aufersteh'n, ja aufersteh'n wirst du,
Mein Staub, nach kurzer Ruh!" but also the climax in the finale when a good conductor will beckon the choir to rise up and stand at the height of the crescendo. Amazing.
Agree about Mahler9... Utterly draining.
Some others that have evoked emotion in me over the years (more than others) are kind of in two camps...
Dark:
Tapiola - can be terrifying
Metamorphosen - I rarely listen to it because it is quite hard to
Light:
Good Friday Music - I'm not a huge fan of Wagner but I saw Claudia Abbado conduct a performance of this at the Proms about 15yrs ago. He has very frail and perhaps that played a part. The Mahler Chamber Orchestra played it beautifully and it was just a joy to listen to
RVW Tallis Fantasia - Silvestri. Nothing more to say. Stunning.
Guillaume Lekeu's "Adagio pour quatuor d'orchestre" always gets me emotionally. Its music building to climaxes that ultimately fall apart in a matter of seconds and an utterly bleak and emotionally taxing ending, what can I say, it leaves me drained every time.
Great topic, great video. My own sense of what is "draining" is more like what "uses up" one's deep well of emotion - when a gas tank is drained, the car has used it to go somewhere; the exhaustion marks some kind of accomplishment or voyage; there has been a point to it all. Something in me has been tapped, even tapped out, but a depth has been sounded, and the emptying-out has been to some end. On the works, I agree with the draining quality of each and every one. BUT, my personal experience of Bruckner 9 is, well, maybe just personal: for most of my life I would have called it my favorite, most personally draining, of all symphonies, and the most emotionally "complete" of all, precisely in the sense that Dave describes, and the sense that Shostakovich models in his 4th Symphony. AND YET, while granting that in the form left to us it is aesthetically compromised to say the least, still somewhere in the wreck of the finale there is something unbearably powerful, transcendentally suggestive, and now, for me personally at least, necessary. AND ALSO, to my own personal list I would add Sibelius Symphony No. 4 and Peter Maxwell Davies Symphony No. 2.
Very cathartic, Dave. Thanks, I needed it without knowing I did.
Great list! I would add Shostakovich 5, Beethoven 7 and Brahms 1 and 4. Oh, and of course The Rite of Spring!
Great list Dave, thank you. I personally would add:
Myaskovsky: Symphony no. VI
Rachmaninoff: Symphony no. I
Glazunov: The Sea or Symphony no. VI
Lyatoshynsky: Symphony no. III
Skulte: Symphony no. V
Atterberg: Symphony no. III
Schmidt: Symphony no. IV
Beethoven: Symphony no. V
Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe (symphonie choreographique)
Bax: Symphony no. II or VI
Walton: Symphony no. I
Vaughn-Williams: Symphony no. VI
Sainton: The Island
Braga-Santos: Symphony no. IV
Tubin: Symphony no. IV
Hanson: Symphony no. I
Copland: Symphony no. III
Many of these are interesting, and real connoiseur's picks (Schmidt! Bax! Atterberg! For Rachmaninov, I would rather put Symphonic dances, but I see your point). Of course, not every average listener of things Classical would remember most of these pieces. But an attempt could be well rewarded!
@@bigg2988
I actually thought of the Symphonic Dances. Good point.
To me, works like Walton's first symphony and Atterberg's third (fantastic stuff) feel exhilarating rather than deflating -- overcoming the odds through determination.
@@jasonbowden1000
Agree.
Thank you so much for your interesting and plausible suggestions.
I'd also like to mention:
- Mozart's Masonic Funeral Music
- Schubert's "The Death and the Maiden" (arr. by Mahler)
- Schmidt's 4th Symphony
- Tournemire's 8th Symphony "Le triomphe de la mort"
What a brilliant idea for a video, well done Dave, I love it.
Say what you will about the idiom in which he wrote it, but Gorecki's symphony no 3 absolutely drained me by the end of it. When I first heard it, live, the hypnotic textures had had some sort of lulling effect on me, and the sounds of the unison polyphonic strings began to sound not as an ensemble, but as a corporate entity, like a massive, swelling organ. When the harmony switched near the end of the third movement modulated from minor to major, I instantly wept, like the shift had triggered some sort of primal emotional reflex I had no control over. I imagine that others' mileage may vary, depending upon how the music strikes them. It might only have that effect on me.
I’m surprised no one has plumped for the addition of some of the works that generate quite passionate swings of mood for me; those that make you feel as if you have been on a completely realised journey. Elgar 2, Schumann 2, Beethoven 3, Brahms 3. All of these have that slightly feverish, neurotic quality that you can really absorb into your soul as you experience the sound rushing through you. Shostakovich’s Violin Concerto No 1 does it for me too. I don’t dispute anything on DH’s list though
I always enjoy being drained by Martinu 3rd and 6th. He must have been so homesick while writing both. He always opens the heaven for a few bars and then falls to an even darker mood. The piano chords closing the 3rd are an example of pure musical cruelty; closing of the 6th makes me peacefully hopeless.
Splendid!
If I am playing a record or going to a concert, I know and are prepared. In old days with good radio stations, I have have been blowed away (like your radiocollega) many times, unprepared to what hit my ears and soul.
My thoughts about good arts, is that the composer, painter etc are going to so deep, places where normal people should stay away. The Arts tells us, what they have seen and felt. It is a dangerous job, some never came back.
I'd also suggest Mahler's 10th Symphony, both the opening Movement as a standalone, but expecially the whole Work as completed by Deryck Cooke. I know it's not 100% by Mahler, albeit he left us with such extensive drafts we can argue it still is one of the most faithful reconstructions/completions of an unfinished Work, but still it's something wonderous, and of the deepest possible emotional expression.
Great stuff! Here's my picks (no list of emotionally draining orchestral works would be complete without at least some film music):
1) Mahler Symphony 9
2) Bruckner Symphony 9
3) Tchaikovsky Symphony 6
4) Rachmaninov Symphony 2
5) Strauss Tod und Verklärung
6) Schoenberg Verklärte Nacht
7) Bernard Herrmann - Vertigo
8) John Williams - Schindler’s List
9) James Horner - Braveheart
10) John Barry - Dances with Wolves
A great list! The pieces I would add are Vaughan Williams sixth symphony, the second movement of the barber violin concerto,’s and the Britten sinfonia da requiem. I’m excited to hear your vocal list! Being a Choral Conductor, two things popped into my head immediately, but I realized I would be out of order by mentioning them. Thanks for your thought-provoking and entertaining videos!
Absolutely the Britten Sinfonia da Requiem, I just heard it again a week ago and with the same experience that led him to create it. Really purging. Speaking of which, without being presumptuous I can guess one of the choral works you might have in mind.
I also was thinking of the VW 6th!
@@bbailey7818 sure. Take a shot.
@@cliffordbaker4930 For a real emotional drain, put RVW 6 on the same program as Sibelius 4.
@@bplonutube Not to stray off topic, but that Coventry thing by Britten ;)
Lots of great suggestions here. Two of my favourites are short pieces. Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite No. 1, "Åse's Death" and Holst Planets "Bringer of Old Age"
What about Mahler 2? For me the most emotionally draining Mahler symphony.
Martinu’s “Memorial to Lidice”, and Magnard’s “Chant Funebre” - two great emotional drainers, for those with time constraints.
Pettersson, yes. So draining that I've been afraid to go back to it. Arnold Rosner's recently recorded Requiem is similarly intense.
Sibelius 4 I dont know .nor the Suk. Hearing you talk about him I will have to getto know it ! Pettersson isgreat great music-7 and 8 I adore .Nielsen I should knowby now! Honegger too. Messiaen should be on this list.Turangalila is fullof joy .
Wonderful list. I don't know a few of the pieces, but will definitely give them a listen. My addition would be just 2 - and these have drained me emotionally.
1. Mahler: Symphony No. 5
2. Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5
In both cases, by the time I have reached the end of the last movement, I feel completely emotionally drained and exhilarated as well.
Elgar's first symphony deserves a mention, a very urgent piece, and the slow movement is intense too. Elgar himself conducted a passionate performance.
I lovely work, but emotionally draining? I don't think so.
I love this list.
And I love David (don’t tell my wife).
The inclusion of Bruckner 9 and Shostakovich 8 and Mahler 9 gives this list total validity for me.
Personally I would have added Schubert 8, unfinished. I was tempted to say “you forgot Schubert 8” just to be ornery.
I find these videos very entertaining. Thanks David.
The first that came to my mind when reading the video title was actually Wangner's Tristan und Isolde Vorspiel und Liebestod, which has been recorded as an orchestral piece quite a thousand times. But I only like recordings of it that maintain a high dynamic range, that means starting with low volume and building up to get louder and louder, these are the real intense ones, like Solti with Chicago, for example.
Great list, Dave! I would also add Magnard 4, Miaskovski 25, and Parry 5.
Fantastic list Dave, and I can't agree more that the Mahler 9th has to be the "one". I am not as familiar with Honegger's 3rd as I am with all the other works you listed. Looking forward to re-visiting that one with this recommendation in mind.
I'll add a bunch to the list that I think are emotionally draining:
Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto No. 2... super famous but still emotionally draining every time.
Elgar - Cello Concerto (I know you're favorite... you're missing out on this one Dave ;)
Wagner - Tristan Prelude and Liebestod ... I really thought this would be in your list.
Sibelius - Symphony No. 5..... maybe not "draining" but very affecting
Mahler - Symphony 10... I know having a third Mahler work in the list wouldn't make sense, but that Adagio my god
Ravel - Piano Concerto in G.... This work takes you all over the place emotionally. I always feel transformed when I listen to it from beginning to end.
Bach - St Matthew Passion... for me there are moments in this work that are emotionally intense in a way that wasn't approached until the Romantic.
By the way Dave, it would be great to also do 10 most emotionally draining works that are not orchestral or vocal... ie Piano and chamber.
I am surprised no mention yet of Pärt's Stabat Mater. I first heard it back around 1987 or so. I had to stay very late at work one night and didn’t leave until around midnight. I got in my car, the radio was tuned to the classical station and a piece was playing; just a violin, viola and cello - so mournful. It kept building, wordless vocals, then singing in Latin broken up by more sorrowful but at other times manic instrumental interludes. I recognized the text but had never heard such an austere arrangement. I kept driving home through the nearly empty streets and pulled into my driveway. The piece was still going. I sat for another two or so minutes while the piece ended. I had to know who wrote this. Yet, when it ended I felt unable to move - so emotionally draining was this music - that I continued to sit in my car for several more minutes. Pärt had captured through his music the essence of the hollowness one feels after witnessing the crucifixion.
I am not knocking the pieces mention in the video. I know them all, but Pärt's Stabat Mater truly belongs in the top ten.
It's not a "top ten"--it's just ten.
What a great idea for a video. It’s hard for me to contain myself, as I have vowed to do. My first thought was, “He is going to mention Pettersson.” But you also hit my expectations with regards to the Mahler and Bruckner picks, and the stupendous Shostakovich 8th.
The essential thing I need to tell you is how moved I was by your eloquence in explaining the Nielsen 5th. I have missed the mark. I’ll start all over with it tomorrow.
My own additions to the list: The Vaughn Williams 4th symphony, Mahler’s 10th symphony, Malcolm Arnold’s 9th symphony. Here is something unconventional:: When I am in my deepest depression, serial music makes sense to me, and I often listen to Schoenberg’s violin concerto. The strain of staying focused is in itself cathartic.
I’ll be checking out the Suk (who knew?), the Haydn, and the Honegger. What terrific suggestions. Thank you, David. This post is still way too long.
Thank you Dave. One man who was entitled to conduct Mahler 9 and extract every ounce of drainage from it through personal experience was Karel Ancerl. I cannot play this disc without equating the man with the music and consequently it gets to me each and every time .
For me: many passages from Wagners' Parsifal, especially the Transformation Music in the first act.
I can only add Prokofiev's 2nd Symphony leaves me mentally battered and bruised. I have to seek out some light and frothy music after listening to it.
Glad you included Pettersson. The only I ever owned was the 7th and it was too draining and I had to sell it off.
No substraction, only additions: Sibelius "Tapiola", Hartmann "Kammerkonzert for Clarinet...", and save from the 4th all the other purely orchestral symphonies composed by Mahler, but the 6th, 9th and the 10th are the most emotionally draining of those.
There are two works I consider draining and powerful, namely Holmboe's Symphony No. 8 and Tubin's Symphony No. 2. The Holmboe's Sinfonia Boreale has a raw intensity that is perceived through its 4 movements, and the ending couldn't be more dramatic and visionary at once. It always has me at the edge of my seat; the Tubin also has this powerful natural element to it that is so appealing to me. After many moments of struggle and urgency, it ends with a sort of cold atmosphere, like depicting a frozen landscape, rather in the vein of its "legendary" title.
Just remembered another one that suits the topic video: Schnittke's Cello Concerto No. 1 (if concertos are allowed). For me, it represents the epitome of drainage, what an incredibly intense piece of music. The last minutes are simply devastating.
I was going to mention Holmboe 8 but Sinfonia in Memoriam edged it out. I'm with you on Tubin 2 and I'd add Tubin 5. That apocalyptic finale knocks you back in your seat.
I was actually thinking about your avatar namesake, Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach Zarathustra" as well as Schnittke's "Collected Songs Where Every Verse Is Filled with Grief".
Splendid, Dave.
And here's my two cents' worth: Berg's Violin Concerto; Bryars' Jesus' Blood Never Failed Me Yet (the original Obscure recording, not the Point Music remake with Tom Waits at the end); Ives' Orchestral Set no. 2; Sibelius' Tapiola; Vaughan Williams' Sixth Symphony.
Great choices!
@@ftumschk Thank you!
I would add the Adagio from Mahler's unfinished 10th symphony, which to my ears rides the razor's edge between terrifying and sublime, a harrowing experience start to finish. A great one is Kurt Sanderling conducting Berlin Sym Orch in 1978 on Eterna, then reissued on Berlin Classics.
Mahler symphony 9
Tchaikovsky symphony 6
Shostakovich Symphony 8
Rachmaninov Isle of the dead
Bartok Strings and celesta
Scriabin Poem of ecstacy
Mahler symphony 6
Shostakovich Symphony 13
Mahler symphony 3 (especially in the last movement when the horns come back with fury, it’s like a right hook amongst the heavenly music)
Sibelius Symphony 4
Great list! I would add Beethoven’s Seventh Symphony becuase of the second movement.
Lutoslawski: Livre pour orchestra, and Cello Concerto. Dutilleux: The Shadows of Time. Haas: “in vain”. Shostakovich: Symphony 15. Reich: Different Trains. Husa: Music for Prague 1968.
Too easy.
I'm with you step for step on the first four and Bruckner 9, skipping Pettersson 8 only because I don't know it. Shostakovich 4 drains me incomparably more than 8 and after that I'd have to include Mozart's often bitterly angry, ultimately despairing K491, Sibelius 4 and Holmboe's majestically sorrowful Sinfonia in Memoriam.
I agree completely with Tchaikovsky #6. I just can’t handle the idea of the slow music ending the symphony when the 3rd movement is so brilliant and lively-and usually brings down the house anyway! (my sister asked why the encore was so slow!) I find the Shostakovich #5 to run through so many emotions that it can be quite draining (in all the right ways!) I’d like to see a similar list of operas.
Well, this was a tough one, but here´s a selection...
- Arnold Symphony No 9
- Mahler Symphony No 10
- Gorecki Symphony No 3 (yeah I know, but let´s pretend there´s no Soprano in it)
- Adams "Harmonielerhe"
- Rubbra Symphony No 1
- Vaughan Williams Symphony No 3 & 5 (can´t choose just one)
- Brahms Piano Concerto No 1
- Daugherty Violin Concerto No 2 "Fallingwater"
- Kaljo Raid Symphony No 1
-Yoshimatsu "The Age of Birds"
My first encounter with Tchaikovsky's 6th in Russia was in St. Petersburg, at Piskarevskoe Memorial Cemetery. This is the site of mass graves for people who died in the Leningrad Blockade. Their remains are heaped under a series of enormous quadrilateral burial mounds covered with grass, almost like capped landfills. Even Stalin would have admired how much the arrangement makes wholesale death look so facelessly quantitative. On the way out, my wife and I were approached by a man in uniform with a cassette player. When he pressed a button, we heard the opening of the symphony's finale. The understanding was that we should pay him a little money, to supplement his low pay, and for the Tchaikovsky--a drop of personal agony to wash down all the mass-produced anonymity. This was almost thirty years ago, when there were more people looking for a side hustle to get a few more rubles. That only increased the sense of tragedy made pedestrian.
The next encounter with the symphony was in a live performance by the State Academic Capella. At the end of the third movement, much of the audience broke out in applause, as if they had just heard a triumphant conclusion. Instead of waiting for this to just run its course, the conductor turned to the audience with irritation and impatience bordering on alarm. There were still some straggling claps when the strings burst out in the fourth movement, with an abruptness that only increased the sense of shock. I'd like to think this is what Tchaikovsky intended. The shock isn't just from how the movement bottoms out in the coda, but also the point-blank declaration at the beginning, with the pyrotechnics of the preceding movement still in our ears. This fourth movement was not like Bernstein's, not very slow, despairing or morose. It was much more lucid: less about the sadness of tragedy than meeting it head-on (like Lensky in "Evgeny Onegin").
I did go to a performance of Mahler's 6th when it was played in a free concert by a Harvard orchestra at Sanders Theater. While the first movement was in progress, a man walked into the hall and approached the orchestra. He was noticeably under the influence, maybe a war veteran drawn by the familiar tread of a march. When he got near the podium, he suddenly stiffened and, looking up at the conductor, gave salute. He was quickly shown out and, it seemed, with all the dispatch of someone being led to a firing squad.
I fell asleep during Mahler 6 with Askhenazy conducting in Copenhagen, sort of draining.....
Please consider solo or small ensemble works version. For example, Schubert’s piano sonata D960.
Yes that's exactly my thoughts too - you must do a chamber music version of this video! On the top of my list will be Schubert's last Quartet No. 15 in G
Your best video ever, IMO. Kudos to you!
I'll add "lots of Sibelius", the Elgar Cello Concerto, and the Dvorak Piano Quintet in A (remembering a particularly emotionally overwhelming concert)
For some reason, somewhere way back in the foggy depths of my memory, I seem to recall someone mentioning (probably a Gramophone review or something similar) that Karajan identified 3 works as the most "emotionally exhausting" (or something to that effect) to conduct. They were, Mahler 9 (of course), Sibelius 4, and Berg's 3 pieces. Embarrassingly, I don't think I've ever hear the Berg, but this list stuck with me because I think he was spot on about the Mahler and the Sibelius. Seems like Sibelius should have made the top 10, and hard to think of a better nominee than the 4th Symphony.
Sibelius 4th could be too austere for its own good... meaning, one must really pay attention to be captivated. I have been - and other times, have been not. The interpretation might be key in this one.
He said they were symphonic works that “Ended in complete disaster”
I love all these suggestions. I’ll make a head start on a draining vocal piece: Otmar Schoeck’s “Elegies”!
Oops should have waited for your caveat at the end…
For me, Sibelius' Tapiola. The gaps of silence really are what do it. It also seems to describe nature and how it has complete disregard to what we think about it. All the violence just happens and their is nothing we can do about it. Listening to it is absolutely draining.
Spectral music. It suggests Sib was about to head off in a new direction. Comfortless music, just pure awe.
I heard Bernstein do the tchaik 6 at Ravinia. I think it was his last time there. It seemed even slower than the record, but even on the lawn you could have heard a pin drop.
Love this kind if talk! I agree with this list, Honegger and Suk are a nice choice; I wouldn't have immediately thought of them, but yeah...Rouse Symphony No 2 anyone???
Would you consider lists for solo instrumental works/chamber works? The Bach violin partita 2, the Beethoven Op 110 piano sonata and op 131 string quartet, the Schubert B-flat sonata (I could go on but I won't), can leave me a wreck.
A great list, but nobody seems to mention here, or even aware of, Reger's Symphonischer Prolog zu einer Tragödie op. 108, an incredibly emotional work.The end is to die for.
Unless you die before you get to it. The piece is interminable.
I know the list is designed to be diverse. But one could say every Bruckner symphony starting with #3 has a purgative, overwhelming effect. Interesting how we don't often listen to these overwhelming works, but that's also -- ironically -- a sign of their greatness. You're left so stunned, the human metabolism probably isn't designed to handle continual Stupendousness. They also say those who see Heaven don't live.
I disagree. I don't think 4, 6 or 7 have that effect at all.
Pettersson 7 the Antal Dorati version bleeds me dry although moments of sheer beauty lift it.
Drains the drains.
Totally agree with Nielsen 5 that 1st mvt is a battle unresolved. The finale is genuinely earth shattering, a tug of war especially when heard live; I was only 20 feet from the orchestral players stunning immersion!
Slow movement of Elgar 2 takes the biscuit for me, leaves me shaken and riveted with depths of feeling the music reaches.
It swoops down then recovers then plunges into the abyss again.
Sorry words can't express check out the 1940s recording by Boult.
I have found that MacMillan's take on the 7 last words from the cross has the biggest emotional drainage to music ratio for me. It leaves me completely shell shock every single time, and by the end I literally have to remind myself to breathe.
This is a great list, Dave. I remember hearing Mahler 6 for the first time when I was a freshman at Eastman. Completely overwhelming and I came away wondering how any composer could tap into one’s emotions so acutely. A few other “tune’s” I might add:
- Strauss - Death and Transfiguration
- Mahler 8th
- Prokofiev - Romeo & Juliet
- Messaien- Et exspecto in resurrectionem mortuorum
The Strauss piece was the first I thought of to add
Das Lied von der Erde...Strictly orchestral? Nope... Strictly vocal? Nope... Doesn't matter...The distinction is semantic..Is the piece emotionally draining? Absolutely!... Mahler achieves the trifecta!
I would add Malcolm Arnold's Symphony No. 9. The closing adagio is very bleak following a hyper scherzo.
Good call.
great chat! I'm just too chicken for Lenny's Pathetic. Call me pathetic. I would include Schubert's Unfinished, especially the second movement. I'm going to check out Suk's Asrael symphony.
Thanks again for these great suggestions. Naturally I concur about Mahler’s Ninth: it’s really just a killer. I am just now getting to know the Martinů. Personally I find it a bit cerebral somehow (is it the “neo-classical” style, if that is even a suitable characterization?). But really, “cerebral” is certainly not bad in any way; lots of music is. It is just that I do not find myself especially moved. The angst in the Martinů - and what a load of it there is! - does not penetrate my heart. Sometimes it seems like a frenetic beehive under attack, and I just can’t bring myself to feel sorry for the poor bees. (Or perhaps the bees are mid-20th century urbanites.) But one thing I have noticed about Martinů is that his **endings** (both of pieces and of movements) are extremely fine. As you discussed in your “timing problem” video, it is such a tricky thing to end a piece, or end a movement, in just the right way,. But to my ears Martinů consistently arrives at an almost perfect and virtually magical solution, at least in what I have heard of his music. Has anyone else noticed the same thing? It is said that he imagined whole works in his mind before writing them, and this might explain this tendency. Your ever devoted fan.
Drainage? Franz Schmidt's 4th Symphony..but only in a great performance such as Mehta's VPO on Decca ('71). "Draining", though in a metaphysical, lofty and resigned way, as if its tragedy "purifies" and removes us from earthly existence. Sound corny? You decide. But you've got to have Mehta, and be in the right mood. Turn off the phone, dim the lights, pull down the shades, make sure you're surrounded by absolute silence.... LR (Great list, Suk! Honegger ~ civilization destroyed, and the glimmer of hope that rises from the ashes).
Possibly the greatest recording Mehta ever did, but the competition is very stiff.
@@morrigambist Many recordings, but few (none) understand and project the work as effectively as Mehta.
Although I agree that Mahler's 6th and 9th deserve to be on your list, the first two movements of his fifth are for me the most emotionally draining of his purely instrumental symphonies even though this work ends on a positive note. I would consider Vaughan Williams' 4th and Prokofiev's 3rd on the list also. I am so glad you included the Shostakovich 8th and the Tchaikovsky 6th as you point out is obvious. I need to introduce myself to Josef Suk's "Asrael Symphony" and thank you for that.
Prokofiev 3 is an experience. Especially the slow movement.
I was fully expecting the "Asrael" symphony, but not right away at No.2. What can one say... it has to be experienced at least once. It is the genuine darkness of human existence pierced finally by the light of ongoing life (just for a brief moment...). Plus, a shout-out for the inclusion of Haydn's "Seven Last Words". If nothing else, this one proves Haydn was the universal genius of his (or any) age. He blazed the path, and went beyond what was the norm. Powerful stuff. Most of the others, hard to argue against. I would probably include the Schubert 9th, for how all-encompassing it is in its totality; and Bruckner 8th, a real roller-coaster (mostly a slow one, but the better for making those emotions work); Smetana's "Ma Vlast" COULD be there, for its epic scope, sense of history and the final peroration, combining the Vysehrad theme with the Hussite / Blanik theme, just goosebumps (listen, e. g., to the slowed-down Harnoncourt version, that finale comes through hard!); finally - Mahler 2nd, not a surprise; in the best renditions (it is not easy to get really right!) it's the ultimate tour de force of wandering through darkness and arriving at the triumphant light. Including that would give the good Gustav 1/3 of the full drainage list - and would be on point!
P. S.: Interesting that Beethoven was not mentioned once, I guess we are drained to the limit by an overdose of his fabulous music... I still swear by the Allegretto of the 7th, ever the most emotional for this listener.
Hello David ! May I suggest al list of most memorable, unexpected MOMENTS ( with samples if possible ) in classical music.
Always a pleasure to watch your content.
Strauss Metamorphosen
Berg Violin Concerto
Vaughan Williams Symphonies 4 and 6 (each draining in very different ways).
And it doesn't all have to be Romantic or 20th century. Besides the Seven Last Words, Haydn Symphonies 44, 45, 49. Mozart Symphony 40. Once we get to chamber works the possibilities are endless, like Mendelssohn's Op.80 which is less a quartet than a suicide note in music.
VW6, its finale is imho the utmost draining piece of music ever..(the 4th is still very active at it's end), and Sibelius 4.. I'm surprised Dave didn't mention these, but he knows them and has his reasons, and he has to choose for 10 amongst many.
I agree completely with everything on your list. However, I would suggest one supplement for Josef Suk: "A Summer's Tale." The two works are very different. The Azrael Symphony is dramatic, tragic and exciting, while the Summer Tale has more of a "died and gone to heaven" feeling. I deliberately do not listen to it very often, as I'm afraid that familiarity might spoil it. .
I actually prefer A Summer Tale to Asrael, but I had to pick one and Asrael is, I think, a bit more visceral--not not more beautiful.
Not sure if you’ll have a separate list for film music, but Takemitsu’s score for Kurosawa’s film Ran matches the bleakness of the story. It’s not for nothing there’s a major sequence that’s just images and the music, not even diegetic sounds until an arrow figuratively and literally pierces through the drama.
Unforgettable film and the score plays a large part...
I don't know what I would have left out from your list, David, because it was wonderful, but somewhere I would have to include the Rachmaninov "Isle of the Dead":