This is what happened when you have Australian and Americans analyzing Indonesia. Australian always portrays Indonesia in such a bad light or grim picture: attack of democracy from above and bottom, not only one strong man or political party like PH, Brazil or Turkey but from across political parties, corruption at the lowest throughout the highest level. Then how come Indonesia's democracy is not worse than PH, Brazil or Turkey? Americans actually got it right, when you say 'regress', 'recede', then compare to what? 20 yrs ago? 10 yrs ago? Australia says banning FPI is undemocratic or illiberal, but Americans can see better: what if the people supported it? ain't that democratic? Refer to Chatib Basri: Indonesia will fail your argument if you are too pessimistic, and equally if you are too optimistic.
And the suggestion for lockdowns for Indonesian Covid are just CRAP. Indonesia is not Australia where government can just send money to citizen's bank account. 60-80 millions Indonesians cannot live in lockdowns, they work in informal sectors where they have to interact with other people. So what if some local government like Jakarta's governor wants to implement lockdown, that has little to do with the national government. After all it was Jakarta which was the center of Indonesian outbreak. Indonesia's Covid problem was the Delta variant, which the govt failed to avoid by barring flights from India, not of having no lockdowns.
Alright, Indonesian government may not authoritarian nor hybrid regime, but we are currently in a situation where the quality of democracy keeps decreasing inconstantly.
@@mhatopzz4098 quality of democracy is decreasing everywhere, notably in western countries. soon enough western countries will go to war with china (or any other countries for that matter) like they did in iraq or afghanistan, that is against the will of their people, hence undemocratic. i prefer indonesian democracy than the "gold standard" american democracy.
@@putraasadtriya6250 klo kritik bener gak usah takut, tp hrs membangun jangan menghina. misalnya retno sbg menlu itu sama sekali jauh performanya di bawah menlu2 sblmnya: marty, hassan, apalagi legenda ali alatas dan mochtar dan adam malik. nanti jangan dipake lagi jadi menlu dia, masalah regional jadi hancur di myanmar dan laut cina selatan. jkw otaknya gak kesampaian utk pahami ini, tp minimal dia punya kontribusi besar di infrastruktur yg diperlukan di 10-20 th mendatang.
It is interesting discussion especially in the topic of banning HTI and FPI, from your point of view it give the goverment to ban organization that they deem anti pancasila but from my point of view it is the will of the majority of the people to ban the organization. So how you balance this thing so the govt. will not abuse their power but still give the people what they want?
The answer to your question is i guess... Democracy and due process... Which my poor country dont give a fudge now... The thing about hti and fpi is not that people dont like that they got banned, more to the reason... They're not banned because they're bad, they're banned because they got in the way if the current govt agenda. If they really in a goodwill of banning dangerous org, they could have banned 10 more... But nope, they just stop after banning after they get rid of what they needed to get rid of... Maan i just hate living here these days.
I came across this video after reading an article written by Eve Warburton. It is interesting when the liberals claiming that the current Indonesian government is heavy-handed dealing with the hardline islamic groups such as the violent Islamic Defender Front (FPI), Hizbut Tahrir and the like. Don't they realise that when these religious thugs get some sort of power, the first ones that they will target are the liberals. I used to live in Indonesia for 25 years, and I still go back there from time to time. Religious extremism has been a problem for the last few years (particularly during Yudhoyono was in power as he gave access to islamic radical groups to flourish). The current government has to do something before the problem becomes acute. Actually, what the current government has been doing is rather soft (compared to what General Suharto did when he was in power). It's about time the Indonesians show some backbone against islamic radical groups, and I find their approach in dealing with the islamists is rather "refreshing" (compared to policy based on political correctness as we can see in many western countries when it comes to dealing with radical islamic groups - excluding France of course).
If i asked the evidence, are you gonna run away? No one has ever given any credible evidence, regarding it is the government who are did those kind of thing, in fact, many evidence are proving the otherwise, if the government did what you accused, i want you to answer this question, why the opposition are still exist? They should've been gone by now if what you just said are true
As we know any people in the government has tried to be the new leader of Demokrat. If it is succeed then Demokrat will join the government. PKS is the only one will remain at the end. Any new Law will be pass easily in the parliament.
@@johnsada9367 so youre blaming the government if the demokrat are having a split? The demokrat is a dynastic parties is not even democratic since long time ago, they having a split is a matter of when, not how, beside, their supppsed 'coup' are being rejected by *the government* . As we know? No i dont know at all, because its being rejected, it has nothing to do with the government trying to dismantle the opposition, the opposition are dismantling itself, and PKS still exist still prove my point, the government are not arresting people using ITE for political arrest, its just people being savages and spit racist slur in the internet and they're crying when the police arrest them, what a loser, if you want to be a barbaric asshole who have no manners do it somewhere else, go away to somalia, go away to yemen, you can be speak racist slur as much as you want, you can speak lies as much as you want, you can be as barbaric as you want, just dont do it in Indonesia
@@trihermawan9553 So does other Parties. The Very First in History of Indonesia THE PRESIDENT'S SONS HAS BEEN ELECTED TO BECOME A MAYOR OF TWO CITIES. This is true monarchy dynastic nation. Democracy needs people to criticize the government policies or law. We do not say racism we only say for justice.
democracy experienced an increase in the SBY era, 2 periods of developed countries in the field of democracy and the economy improved. but it decreased in the Jokowi era along with his PDIP cronies, the Indonesian state is currently in a democracy crisis
I dont think so.. Democracy here increased substantialy right after the "reformasi" begin. In sby time, it actually went stagnant, its not getting worse, its just going nowhere. So people demanded change. And yeaaaahh... We got change now... For the fudging worse. I guess we took stagnation for granted :D
Agree, Democracy was decline in Indon...!!! please concern & save papua tropical paradise forest from jokowi oligarchy & co, they so insane for deforestation, food estate, omnibus and many with the claim for economics growth, when they failed for these promises. "jusuf & randy" had martyr for large demonstration "corrupted reformation". Please take papuan forest from lower price invsetor (omnibusuk)...
This is what happened when you have Australian and Americans analyzing Indonesia. Australian always portrays Indonesia in such a bad light or grim picture: attack of democracy from above and bottom, not only one strong man or political party like PH, Brazil or Turkey but from across political parties, corruption at the lowest throughout the highest level. Then how come Indonesia's democracy is not worse than PH, Brazil or Turkey? Americans actually got it right, when you say 'regress', 'recede', then compare to what? 20 yrs ago? 10 yrs ago? Australia says banning FPI is undemocratic or illiberal, but Americans can see better: what if the people supported it? ain't that democratic? Refer to Chatib Basri: Indonesia will fail your argument if you are too pessimistic, and equally if you are too optimistic.
And the suggestion for lockdowns for Indonesian Covid are just CRAP. Indonesia is not Australia where government can just send money to citizen's bank account. 60-80 millions Indonesians cannot live in lockdowns, they work in informal sectors where they have to interact with other people. So what if some local government like Jakarta's governor wants to implement lockdown, that has little to do with the national government. After all it was Jakarta which was the center of Indonesian outbreak. Indonesia's Covid problem was the Delta variant, which the govt failed to avoid by barring flights from India, not of having no lockdowns.
Alright, Indonesian government may not authoritarian nor hybrid regime, but we are currently in a situation where the quality of democracy keeps decreasing inconstantly.
@@mhatopzz4098 quality of democracy is decreasing everywhere, notably in western countries. soon enough western countries will go to war with china (or any other countries for that matter) like they did in iraq or afghanistan, that is against the will of their people, hence undemocratic. i prefer indonesian democracy than the "gold standard" american democracy.
Gw mau kritik tapi takut ite
@@putraasadtriya6250 klo kritik bener gak usah takut, tp hrs membangun jangan menghina. misalnya retno sbg menlu itu sama sekali jauh performanya di bawah menlu2 sblmnya: marty, hassan, apalagi legenda ali alatas dan mochtar dan adam malik. nanti jangan dipake lagi jadi menlu dia, masalah regional jadi hancur di myanmar dan laut cina selatan. jkw otaknya gak kesampaian utk pahami ini, tp minimal dia punya kontribusi besar di infrastruktur yg diperlukan di 10-20 th mendatang.
Why don't they talk about democracy in Myanmar at this very moments?
It is interesting discussion especially in the topic of banning HTI and FPI, from your point of view it give the goverment to ban organization that they deem anti pancasila but from my point of view it is the will of the majority of the people to ban the organization. So how you balance this thing so the govt. will not abuse their power but still give the people what they want?
The answer to your question is i guess... Democracy and due process... Which my poor country dont give a fudge now...
The thing about hti and fpi is not that people dont like that they got banned, more to the reason... They're not banned because they're bad, they're banned because they got in the way if the current govt agenda. If they really in a goodwill of banning dangerous org, they could have banned 10 more... But nope, they just stop after banning after they get rid of what they needed to get rid of... Maan i just hate living here these days.
Singapore is the most succesful dictatorship in the world. And now they talk about democracy in Indonesia 😁
Wkwkwkwkkwk
I came across this video after reading an article written by Eve Warburton. It is interesting when the liberals claiming that the current Indonesian government is heavy-handed dealing with the hardline islamic groups such as the violent Islamic Defender Front (FPI), Hizbut Tahrir and the like. Don't they realise that when these religious thugs get some sort of power, the first ones that they will target are the liberals. I used to live in Indonesia for 25 years, and I still go back there from time to time. Religious extremism has been a problem for the last few years (particularly during Yudhoyono was in power as he gave access to islamic radical groups to flourish). The current government has to do something before the problem becomes acute. Actually, what the current government has been doing is rather soft (compared to what General Suharto did when he was in power). It's about time the Indonesians show some backbone against islamic radical groups, and I find their approach in dealing with the islamists is rather "refreshing" (compared to policy based on political correctness as we can see in many western countries when it comes to dealing with radical islamic groups - excluding France of course).
Yes, Democracy in Indonesia is now in great danger.
The government criminalize critical people by using ITE law.
If i asked the evidence, are you gonna run away? No one has ever given any credible evidence, regarding it is the government who are did those kind of thing, in fact, many evidence are proving the otherwise, if the government did what you accused, i want you to answer this question, why the opposition are still exist? They should've been gone by now if what you just said are true
Demokrat Party, PKS, etc still exist and none of them have been detained at all, eventho they're spreading lies and accusations
As we know any people in the government has tried to be the new leader of Demokrat.
If it is succeed then Demokrat will join the government.
PKS is the only one will remain at the end.
Any new Law will be pass easily in the parliament.
@@johnsada9367 so youre blaming the government if the demokrat are having a split? The demokrat is a dynastic parties is not even democratic since long time ago, they having a split is a matter of when, not how, beside, their supppsed 'coup' are being rejected by *the government* . As we know? No i dont know at all, because its being rejected, it has nothing to do with the government trying to dismantle the opposition, the opposition are dismantling itself, and PKS still exist still prove my point, the government are not arresting people using ITE for political arrest, its just people being savages and spit racist slur in the internet and they're crying when the police arrest them, what a loser, if you want to be a barbaric asshole who have no manners do it somewhere else, go away to somalia, go away to yemen, you can be speak racist slur as much as you want, you can speak lies as much as you want, you can be as barbaric as you want, just dont do it in Indonesia
@@trihermawan9553 So does other Parties.
The Very First in History of Indonesia THE PRESIDENT'S SONS HAS BEEN ELECTED TO BECOME A MAYOR OF TWO CITIES. This is true monarchy dynastic nation.
Democracy needs people to criticize the government policies or law.
We do not say racism we only say for justice.
This is absolutely right
democracy experienced an increase in the SBY era, 2 periods of developed countries in the field of democracy and the economy improved.
but it decreased in the Jokowi era along with his PDIP cronies, the Indonesian state is currently in a democracy crisis
I dont think so..
Democracy here increased substantialy right after the "reformasi" begin. In sby time, it actually went stagnant, its not getting worse, its just going nowhere. So people demanded change. And yeaaaahh... We got change now... For the fudging worse. I guess we took stagnation for granted :D
sby terlalu sibuk sama dunia luar. sampe" lupa kadernya sendiri pada pesta korup di negaranya sendiri.
Agree, Democracy was decline in Indon...!!! please concern & save papua tropical paradise forest from jokowi oligarchy & co, they so insane for deforestation, food estate, omnibus and many with the claim for economics growth, when they failed for these promises. "jusuf & randy" had martyr for large demonstration "corrupted reformation". Please take papuan forest from lower price invsetor (omnibusuk)...
Agreed