Even after watching this, I'd still use belts for what needs high throughput and robots for things that need low throughput, but are awkward to connect with belts. A good example would be feeding gun turrets with AP ammo. Space efficiency is not that big of a problem after fortifying the base a little and a crazy amount of robots uses up some space for roboports, as you've demonstrated. Things like smelting with robots would be just crazy. Thanks for the explanations.
a lot of the debate about bots vs belts is the consumption rate /insertion rate. inserters can insert from/to a logistic chest faster then they can work with belts. this is the primary reason why logistics system is superior to belts. As demonstrated, if bots are adequately provided for (enough roboports and enough robots to fulfill the requests of chests providing your consumption of items, bots are better then belts. if there is a power problem or a mistaken-ly placed roboport that desegregates two network, problems can occur in various ways. deadlock's mods counter-balance bot superiority by enabling compression of items on belts. the devs have discussed including something similar in the vanilla game for awhile, but nothing yet. belts work great for item transfer short distances within a build that, if properly ratioed, have no benefit if switched to logistics-only build: except when the quantity of items consumed/required for an item (such as copper wire or gears) would benefit more from inserting into an assembler from a chest vs a belt and using stack inserters to do so.
I know Im asking randomly but does someone know a trick to log back into an Instagram account?? I was stupid lost the account password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Aries Skylar thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out atm. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
Glad you were able to learn some stuff. :D As Deamon said, it just takes practice and everyone has their style as well. You can still make a pretty awesome bot factory without following all of our tips, but if you do follow them or at least keep them in mind, it should help with optimization and such. :)
Luc luckystrike I am in this boat too. the end showing the robot ports at max range. yeah that is my base lol. I cover the whole thing and have robots flying all over creation. then wonder why it's slow. now I know better and can make a smarter factory. great video thanx.
A nice thing to do also is keep the train inserter / roboports power supply and the power supply for the miners separated from each other, that way you can run a combinator and a power switch and switch off miners when the trains supply chests reach a certain threshold ( of your choosing ). This will also clear backed up chests that receive less bot attention due to distance and help clear ore patch in a more even way. specially if the initial miner chests are set to only hold a low amount of ore, this also helps keep the power usage down while waiting for a train to arrive, useful if your system is saturated / blocked or things take a while to unload. This is also a useful trick with pumpjacks and storage tanks w/ tanker trains on 0.15.x. If power is really problematic, you can also turn off roboports aswell although this requires a few more combinators for logic reasons.
Limiting the range between loading and unloading is important. If you can reduce the distance the bot's travel, you can improve these setup's with quite a lot.
Very informative guys thanks. Regarding the 'bad design' discussion, are you saying that you should have bot sub-networks that are dedicated to just a few tasks? If so, how do you 'deliver' the bots you need to the sub-network so that you have neither too few nor too many?
Thanks, happy you found it helpful! :) Well to start with, you don't necessarily have to have sub networks, just make sure you have optimal robot charging and roboport placement. However, if you do have the sub-networks you can just initially gauge how many robots you'll need and then add or take some away by hand based on your production in that network and how many are being used. There are automated ways to do it too, but that gets a bit more complicated involving combinators and circuit conditions and stuff.
Great Video! But i do have a Question: In the Beginning, when you first get Robots, isn‘t it better to have a perfect Grid-Layout and something like a KoS-Mall, so you can build Blueprints automatically?
Hello Xterminator. Did you perhaps do a video on how train signals work cause for the life of me I spent an entire day trying to figure it out and in the end I left it up to fate that the trains might never crash into each other. Thanks :)
Love this video! I have some mega bases, all belt fed that just end up lagging super hard when I get in the area of 800k-1M iron per hour. Have been wanting to do robots, but can't really find any good tutorials without watching a huge 'Lets Play' and it's buried like 100 episodes in. Keep up the good work man, and I would defiantly love for one of you to come take a look at my 0.15 base sometime and give me some pointers of how I could convert it to a robot based system.
Ah, it is actually misleading the way we did, so sorry about that. You are correct, you would never want to dump them right into storage chests, best to use Passive Providers. The storage looking chests in the video are actually void chests from the Creative Mode mod, they aren't actually acting like storage chests, we just used them for an infinite sink for the circuits.
Some production designs would be good although I suppose your right in that you have shown most of it. I'm doing a bot mega base atm and I'm finding it easiest to dump down 8 factories in a row with roboports at the top and bottom and beacons to the sides - in groups of 4 rows. Efficiency doesn't seem to matter much as long as you can keep up with the raw material delivery.
its to hard to have a set maximized layout for robot based production as it all depends on where the resources are coming from. ideally you want the shortest travel time and the shortest point of charge. other things to take into account are what the bot is predicted to do after is done its job order. does it travel half way across the network for the next job or can it pick something up close to carry across to that point an empty bot is a lazy bot always try and make them carry things 100% of the time and for the shortest distance.
In the future I might try to do one with MadZuri or something. Unfortunately I can't really do one on my own though because I'm actually terrible with circuit networks and combinators. :/
Yes, that is the main problem I have found with a single row of passive providers. One way I got away from that was have a single row of passive providers on the outside and a single row of active providers on the inside to catch overflow. Just have to make sure you have enough storage to handle the overflow of ore. That setup seems to work for me, until I get to the level where I have 300k or higher ore laying around. A lot of storage is needed. By any means, if someone has a better method I am all ears! Medic
I do have a question for you. How can I set up something where I can, say for example, 500 iron plates & 500 copper plates into 1 cargo wagon? A set amount of whatever item. I cant get the inserters to stop at a certain amount. I'm assuming that will be circuit network train system. I do have the logistics train network mod. Even though I don't know how to use it. :( Version 1.7.4 if that will help
Well the simplest method is to just filter the slots in the cargo wagon. If you middle mouse click a slot in the wagon you can set a filter. So you could just set 5 slots to iron and 5 slots to copper and then the rest to something else and that way only those will fill up with iron and copper. You could do some circuit network stuff too but I think that is probably more complicated than it needs to be.
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Even after watching this, I'd still use belts for what needs high throughput and robots for things that need low throughput, but are awkward to connect with belts. A good example would be feeding gun turrets with AP ammo. Space efficiency is not that big of a problem after fortifying the base a little and a crazy amount of robots uses up some space for roboports, as you've demonstrated. Things like smelting with robots would be just crazy. Thanks for the explanations.
a lot of the debate about bots vs belts is the consumption rate /insertion rate.
inserters can insert from/to a logistic chest faster then they can work with belts. this is the primary reason why logistics system is superior to belts.
As demonstrated, if bots are adequately provided for (enough roboports and enough robots to fulfill the requests of chests providing your consumption of items, bots are better then belts. if there is a power problem or a mistaken-ly placed roboport that desegregates two network, problems can occur in various ways.
deadlock's mods counter-balance bot superiority by enabling compression of items on belts. the devs have discussed including something similar in the vanilla game for awhile, but nothing yet.
belts work great for item transfer short distances within a build that, if properly ratioed, have no benefit if switched to logistics-only build: except when the quantity of items consumed/required for an item (such as copper wire or gears) would benefit more from inserting into an assembler from a chest vs a belt and using stack inserters to do so.
I know Im asking randomly but does someone know a trick to log back into an Instagram account??
I was stupid lost the account password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Amir Xzavier instablaster ;)
@Aries Skylar thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out atm.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Aries Skylar It did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thanks so much you really help me out!
What an eye opener. I have been using the logistics network all wrong! I feel so stupid now :( But thanks for making my factory smarter! :D
we all have our own uses for the logistics robots. the more you use it the more it affects your designs and factory operation
Glad you were able to learn some stuff. :D As Deamon said, it just takes practice and everyone has their style as well. You can still make a pretty awesome bot factory without following all of our tips, but if you do follow them or at least keep them in mind, it should help with optimization and such. :)
Luc luckystrike I am in this boat too. the end showing the robot ports at max range. yeah that is my base lol. I cover the whole thing and have robots flying all over creation. then wonder why it's slow. now I know better and can make a smarter factory. great video thanx.
A nice thing to do also is keep the train inserter / roboports power supply and the power supply for the miners separated from each other, that way you can run a combinator and a power switch and switch off miners when the trains supply chests reach a certain threshold ( of your choosing ). This will also clear backed up chests that receive less bot attention due to distance and help clear ore patch in a more even way. specially if the initial miner chests are set to only hold a low amount of ore, this also helps keep the power usage down while waiting for a train to arrive, useful if your system is saturated / blocked or things take a while to unload. This is also a useful trick with pumpjacks and storage tanks w/ tanker trains on 0.15.x.
If power is really problematic, you can also turn off roboports aswell although this requires a few more combinators for logic reasons.
Limiting the range between loading and unloading is important. If you can reduce the distance the bot's travel, you can improve these setup's with quite a lot.
This definitely needs to be updated with the inifinite robot speed research.
I mean not really. The same concepts still apply even if your robots are really fast.
Xterminator Yeah I guess since the draw and request amounts will still apply the same.
And I thought my 300 was a lot
probably your most interesting tutorial so far. great video! thanks
thank you for taking the time to watch.
Thanks, happy you enjoyed it! :)
Very informative guys thanks. Regarding the 'bad design' discussion, are you saying that you should have bot sub-networks that are dedicated to just a few tasks? If so, how do you 'deliver' the bots you need to the sub-network so that you have neither too few nor too many?
Thanks, happy you found it helpful! :)
Well to start with, you don't necessarily have to have sub networks, just make sure you have optimal robot charging and roboport placement.
However, if you do have the sub-networks you can just initially gauge how many robots you'll need and then add or take some away by hand based on your production in that network and how many are being used. There are automated ways to do it too, but that gets a bit more complicated involving combinators and circuit conditions and stuff.
Great Video! But i do have a Question: In the Beginning, when you first get Robots, isn‘t it better to have a perfect Grid-Layout and something like a KoS-Mall, so you can build Blueprints automatically?
Hello Xterminator. Did you perhaps do a video on how train signals work cause for the life of me I spent an entire day trying to figure it out and in the end I left it up to fate that the trains might never crash into each other. Thanks :)
Yaaaa finally the robot vid! thanks
Yup, hope it helped!
Love this video! I have some mega bases, all belt fed that just end up lagging super hard when I get in the area of 800k-1M iron per hour. Have been wanting to do robots, but can't really find any good tutorials without watching a huge 'Lets Play' and it's buried like 100 episodes in. Keep up the good work man, and I would defiantly love for one of you to come take a look at my 0.15 base sometime and give me some pointers of how I could convert it to a robot based system.
why storage chests in the green circuit example? could there not be an issue with robots dropping random items into it sometimes?
Ah, it is actually misleading the way we did, so sorry about that. You are correct, you would never want to dump them right into storage chests, best to use Passive Providers. The storage looking chests in the video are actually void chests from the Creative Mode mod, they aren't actually acting like storage chests, we just used them for an infinite sink for the circuits.
Can we have more on robots, thanks
what sort of things would you like to see explained
I'm a bit confused by your request. What were you wanting to see that we didn't cover?
Some production designs would be good although I suppose your right in that you have shown most of it. I'm doing a bot mega base atm and I'm finding it easiest to dump down 8 factories in a row with roboports at the top and bottom and beacons to the sides - in groups of 4 rows. Efficiency doesn't seem to matter much as long as you can keep up with the raw material delivery.
maximized layouts for production i mean but see below.
its to hard to have a set maximized layout for robot based production as it all depends on where the resources are coming from. ideally you want the shortest travel time and the shortest point of charge. other things to take into account are what the bot is predicted to do after is done its job order. does it travel half way across the network for the next job or can it pick something up close to carry across to that point
an empty bot is a lazy bot always try and make them carry things 100% of the time and for the shortest distance.
Nice! Just what I needed. Did my question on the circuits build video inspire this?
Awesome! It inspired part of it, plus other people have requested a robot setup tutorial as well. :)
this covered exactly what i needed to know ty nj
Can you do a general tutorial on combinators and circuit networks?
In the future I might try to do one with MadZuri or something. Unfortunately I can't really do one on my own though because I'm actually terrible with circuit networks and combinators. :/
Robots are so useful. I have built a base and had over 30k robots. It's insane.amd fun.
Yup! They are awesome indeed!
Excellent video, thanks
Thank you! Glad it helped. :)
was there a derp on the maths on the storage? 1 chest can hold 2,400 items, 2400*48=115200*4=460,800? or am i being a derp?
It's entirely possible we messed up the math.
With the robot mining/train loading, don't you have to worry about the requester chests getting unbalanced?
Yes, that is the main problem I have found with a single row of passive providers. One way I got away from that was have a single row of passive providers on the outside and a single row of active providers on the inside to catch overflow. Just have to make sure you have enough storage to handle the overflow of ore. That setup seems to work for me, until I get to the level where I have 300k or higher ore laying around. A lot of storage is needed.
By any means, if someone has a better method I am all ears!
Medic
as long as all wagons are full then the actual chest balance does not matter. i set it to max request so the chest are always aiming to be full
I do have a question for you. How can I set up something where I can, say for example, 500 iron plates & 500 copper plates into 1 cargo wagon? A set amount of whatever item. I cant get the inserters to stop at a certain amount. I'm assuming that will be circuit network train system. I do have the logistics train network mod. Even though I don't know how to use it. :( Version 1.7.4 if that will help
Well the simplest method is to just filter the slots in the cargo wagon. If you middle mouse click a slot in the wagon you can set a filter. So you could just set 5 slots to iron and 5 slots to copper and then the rest to something else and that way only those will fill up with iron and copper.
You could do some circuit network stuff too but I think that is probably more complicated than it needs to be.
"read train content"
bots are my type of thing but seems deamon's been silent for years, wondering if you'd have any idea why
Needs MOAR Dragons!!!
Lol.
how do you do the smart smelter from the earth videos
I have absolutely no idea to be honest. I am terrible with circuits, and Xeteth made it quite complicated by the looks of it.
i figured it out its complicated but logical
Thx you
Francois Viel Happy to have helped.
the problem is if i use much robots it laggs too much
i use the red robot to transport items or repair ^^
ez pz no problems with performence
I thought my zilch was a lot
"Logistci"
I already told him in the stream and he fixed it :P