Hey everyone! The Kickstarter is officially live now, thank you so much for all of your support! www.kickstarter.com/projects/commandersquarters/seven-secret-supervillains
I love Lord of Pain too but my worry is that there arent many ways to force your opponent to play high cost cards as their first spell. Also, once you are down to 1v1 against him he will hurt yourself more.
Since Lord of Pain is directly dealing the damage and only stops your opponents from gaining life, if you give LoP lifelink, then you'll at least gain back the life lost from LoP being forced to target you. Abide your opponent doesn't cast a larger spell than your remaining life, then you still have a chance to outlast your final foe.
@@GiveItARest As long as LoP has lifelink, even a bigger spell than your remaining life will not kill you. Lifelink gains you life at the same time the damage is dealt, so there is no point in time where your life is negative.
@Zeckenschwarm Just checked on the rulings, and you're absolutely right. Didn't realize it all happens simultaneously. That's good to know, it makes giving Lord of Pain lifelink even better, to be honest.
The thing is, he's not hurting the person casting the spell, he's hurting *another* opponent. So you're actually incentivized to play expensive spells since it's technically getting *you* closer to winning, even if you're not the one playing him. There's definitely an interesting political angle to him that most group slug commanders don't have. Ideally you want your opponents to turn on each other and go ham with big spells to kill each other, forgetting that you're the one pulling the strings. People will be like "well in a 1v1 I'd rather be up against the Lord of Pain than those other guys since he's gonna hurt his controller anyway". And that's where you bust out the lifelink...
I do disagree with Kona, because the upside is very strong and the dies to removal argument while good there is so many ways to tap her and give him protection in her own colors. Keeping in mind turn 1 through 4 is mostly set up turns. I don't know I could be wrong, but she is not to be underestimated, especially with how stacked green is. But anyway cool list I do want the Valgavoth precon cause he is looking cool.
Niko doesn't really require much setup at all. Just have some blink effects, which act also as protection. Then when you have 4-6 shards and any card you play that has a compounding effect. You immediately spike off.
Glad people aren't sleeping on Tyvar. I'm personally trying to brew something where tapping and untapping shenanigans are part of his kit, as there are a ton of interesting ways to do so... course this might just be my penchant to never build most decks a standard way (Jorn all creature types, Vaevictis legendary ABC's, etc...)
we all know how powerful Underworld Breach is. With Master of keys being an enchantment only Underworld Breach in the CZ that also fills the graveyard is going to be powerful. Maybe not Tivit powerful, but still enough to win in many high powered pods.
Literally all you have to do is self mill or tutor a necromancy/animate dead and thassa’s oracle into the grave. Underworld breach the necromancy/animate dead with master of keys, then reanimate thassas oracle and its ggs you win. He’s busted lol
Norin, I think, works great as a deck trying to abuse damage on ETB like Impact Tremors and attack triggers like Cavalcade of Calamity. He interestingly synergizes great with Arabella, since you can save her if the opponents try to block it!
Honestly, Valgavoth in Low B tier is criminal... I think many of us sleep on this dude. The amount of payoff you have is insane, you have a big commander to block, his ward triggers his ability, and he has colors to combat tricks/reanimation ! On the other side, I think Lord of pain is B tier. It's a 5 cmc commander with no protection, it's just a Kaervek at home, and it will be targeted. You have 0 payoff but, it's a fun commander ! Personal advice, ofc
I Dont rly care wich Precon Commander is stronger in the end. Im just so excited to get my Simic Precon and upgrade it to something insane. By far the mostlikely fun to play with commander imo. Getting big enchantments and creatures from your topdeck early in the game just by ramping or flickering them is awesome.
Great video! :) Could you please do a video about the top 10 commanders to win against tribal decks please? My regular pod uses this kind of decks and they always overwhelm me with millions of creature tokens!
Winter doesnt feel that good when you think graveyard hate has become much more common lately. Ppl will just need to keep an eye on the winter player graveyard size and enjoy the 2 extra draws.
I also feel like Winter's abilities contradict each other and make it harder to find a suitable win condition. Drawing opponents extra cards implies you want to drown them in stuff that they can't cast quickly enough and win with something like Ebony Owl Netsuke. Limiting their hand size implies you want to win with something like The Rack. But Winter doesn't actually let you do either of these things, as (unless you have further discard spells) he will make sure all opponents start with 3 cards in hand each turn which is not a good sweet spot for either Owl or Rack. So in terms of your synergistic win conditions, you're limited to only cards that punish card draw like Sheoldred. But if that's your plan, you might as well just run Nekusar and win much faster.
@@astuteanansi4935I’m tired of dumb people saying this bro. Any good self mil golgari deck has 0 issues with keeping delirium up even after having to exile shit for his effect. Reanimating ANY permanent for FREE, and all you have to do is exile 2 cards from the grave?? And you can do it multiple times every turn? And you say that’s bad? Get off the drugs Lmaooo
Rendmaw could be great. Build it similar to a honest rutstein cheerios deck. Just chuck a bunch of ramp and low mana creatures and watch the crows fly, literally.
I think you underrate Valgavoth, card draw in the command zone is always strong. Ward, flying and +1+1's are just additions. Don't think I would ever complain that my commander has Esper Sentinal text on it as a throw in.
@@Wakka12321 Color identity is the biggest thing holding him back, and I'm not a fan on his effect, but drawing extra cards in the command zone has always been good. I don't think he is great. But in the context of comparing him to the rest of these as commanders he is better than this placement. I agree on waiting to see though, and the disappointment with mtg products for me is real.
@@Drizzly_ssb I bought Ms Bumbleflower to try out Group Hug and was very pleased. Have been looking to getting into a Rakdos commander but didnt find anyone I liked so far. I might try out Master of Pain as Group Slug
The Mindskinner says if “A SOURCE YOU CONTROL deals damage to an opponent”, so like it doesn’t even need to attack, it just needs to exist to mill ALL opponents…and the weakness of mill normally in commander is that it’s hard to mill multiple players. Any damage triggers ALL opponent mill. Sure, you’re playing mono blue. But building like a Merfolk or Artifact deck with a bunch of trash just attacking each turn, milling the table for every point of damage…and you’re playing Blue, so you can protect your stuff… Not even to mention CLONE stuff. This could get insane with some clones. ONE clone copy would turn the 20 mill all players into 40 per turn, no? Since there are two copies of the effect? Like is it S? No. A? Probably not. But I think it’s higher than C.
True. I didn't really even think about using other creatures, since mono blue is not known as a great aggro color. Maybe running this as secretly merfolk tribal is not the worst way to go. While you're working with a 100 "life" total instead of 40, you're also spreading the "damage" to all players, so it kind of evens out. And merfolk have a lot of islandwalk synergies, too. If even *one* other player at the table has blue mana, you can swing all your stuff at them and still hurt everyone else.
Aside from turning winter into a discard theme deck, yer opponents still have the hands until the end of their turns. So so long as they have card draw its still kinda iffy, which basically all colors have card draw at this point aside from maybe red who utilizes exile instead of draw but i digress
I feel personally vindicated because I insisted that folks were sleeping hard on Zinnia. The wording on it is super loose. All it cares about is creatures you cast. Prior to Duskmourn, I was going in to every avenue in Jeskai to bypass mana cost like Discover, Key to the Vault, etc. Norin just lets me bounce anything that gets blocked in for another Offspring trigger. I knew this thing would just be a perpetual value engine.
So Arabella has potential to one to two shot opponents. The fact that itself does the damage means it does Commander damage and luckily it's red/white so it has a lot of access to token generation. I can't wait to make a deck for her
I am pretty sure her ability that triggers on attack would not count as commander damage, it is not combat damage. It is the same as like Shalai and Hallar's damage pings not counting as commander damage I am pretty sure. She will still be an OP commander don't get me wrong haha. But commander damage is only through combat, not triggered effects. I think this is the ruling...not trying to be snarky I am fairly new to Magic so I want to make sure I am not missing something here! 903.10a A player who’s been dealt 21 or more combat damage by the same commander over the course of the game loses the game. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
@@Blainprime That is correct. Commander Damage is only combat damage, so anything that is like a tap or triggered ability just does regular damage. Arabella is still going to be amazing though with all of the token and extra combat options Boros allows for! So say you attacked with Arabella and you had 10 tokens out. You would instantly(before blockers are declared) do 10 damage to each opponent(unless they somehow killed Arabella in response to you moving to combat phase). Then if Arabella also damages a player by being unblocked, that player will take 2 commander damage(in addition to the 10 regular damage from earlier). But the 10 is still only regular damage. Still realistically, it would be pretty easy to get Arabella to the point where 2-3 combat phases and its GG!
It kind of sucks what theyre doing to Nashi knowing his role in the lore. As Tamiyo's son, im kind of hoping for better. His Kamigawa card was awesome but its been downhill from there
Mitch, sry to say...your wrong about the master of keys! It's S+ tier, an underworld breach for enchantments. For example, a repeatable animate dead out of your graveyard?
Underworld Breach is a strong card because it has no limitations on what it can bring back. That's what turns it into such a strong enabler for storm decks, because you can just reuse all your rituals and card draw and go off. These two cards are not even remotely comparable despite doing the same thing on the surface. I'm not saying a limited Underworld Breach that sticks around and turns your graveyard into (sort of) an extension of your hand is *bad* by any means, but S+ is a wild overstatement when other commanders like Muldrotha do similar things but better.
@@astuteanansi4935muldrotha doesn’t do it better. He can only cast one thing from the grave each turn plus a land. Master of keys can bring back as many enchantments as you want each turn. AND it’s a self mill outlet by itself. Literally all you have to do is self mil or tutor animate dead/necromancy into the grave then bring it back to reanimate thassas oracle and its ggs you win. The fact it also only needs 3 mana to cost instead of 6 is also way better.
@@hatchell18 Muldrotha casts one thing *of each type* per turn, not one thing in total plus a land. Master of Keys is not bad but that's not a reason to downplay a very powerful commander
You putting master of keys in b tier is so cap😂 it’s literally underworld breach in the command zone for enchantments and he’s also a self mil outlet on his own. He’s busted asf.
Also the winter commander for the precon is A tier. Any good self mil golgari deck has 0 issues with keeping delirium up even after having to exile shit for his effect. Reanimating ANY permanent for FREE, and all you have to do is exile 2 cards from the grave?? And you put that in c tier are you smoking crack bro?😂
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
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Hey everyone! The Kickstarter is officially live now, thank you so much for all of your support!
www.kickstarter.com/projects/commandersquarters/seven-secret-supervillains
Bro, Mitch's voice is like freaking ASMR right now. Gosh dang
Your voice is so much better to understand than with your studio microfon.
this setup was so muchh better than what he usually has.. just my opinion
He always beeen 😫❤️🫦❤️ hahaahahahaa
Loving the calm voice so much
This mic presents your voice much better dude, keep this one.
I love Lord of Pain too but my worry is that there arent many ways to force your opponent to play high cost cards as their first spell. Also, once you are down to 1v1 against him he will hurt yourself more.
Since Lord of Pain is directly dealing the damage and only stops your opponents from gaining life, if you give LoP lifelink, then you'll at least gain back the life lost from LoP being forced to target you. Abide your opponent doesn't cast a larger spell than your remaining life, then you still have a chance to outlast your final foe.
@@GiveItARest As long as LoP has lifelink, even a bigger spell than your remaining life will not kill you. Lifelink gains you life at the same time the damage is dealt, so there is no point in time where your life is negative.
@Zeckenschwarm
Just checked on the rulings, and you're absolutely right. Didn't realize it all happens simultaneously. That's good to know, it makes giving Lord of Pain lifelink even better, to be honest.
The thing is, he's not hurting the person casting the spell, he's hurting *another* opponent. So you're actually incentivized to play expensive spells since it's technically getting *you* closer to winning, even if you're not the one playing him. There's definitely an interesting political angle to him that most group slug commanders don't have. Ideally you want your opponents to turn on each other and go ham with big spells to kill each other, forgetting that you're the one pulling the strings. People will be like "well in a 1v1 I'd rather be up against the Lord of Pain than those other guys since he's gonna hurt his controller anyway". And that's where you bust out the lifelink...
I’m surprised there wasn’t more insect/spiders in this set to work with the swarm weaver. I guess they want you to use the spiders from previous set.
I do disagree with Kona, because the upside is very strong and the dies to removal argument while good there is so many ways to tap her and give him protection in her own colors. Keeping in mind turn 1 through 4 is mostly set up turns. I don't know I could be wrong, but she is not to be underestimated, especially with how stacked green is. But anyway cool list I do want the Valgavoth precon cause he is looking cool.
Are you planning on doing a budget deck list for Winter, Misanthropic Guide? I would really love to see it 💞
Jolly Balloon Man specifically making more clowns and toys and then Rendmaw, Creaking Nest both look really fun
Niko doesn't really require much setup at all.
Just have some blink effects, which act also as protection. Then when you have 4-6 shards and any card you play that has a compounding effect. You immediately spike off.
Glad people aren't sleeping on Tyvar. I'm personally trying to brew something where tapping and untapping shenanigans are part of his kit, as there are a ton of interesting ways to do so... course this might just be my penchant to never build most decks a standard way (Jorn all creature types, Vaevictis legendary ABC's, etc...)
Jolly balloon man!!
I saw the spoilers and decided to put Marvin and the balloon man into my Arabella 99
I think the deck will go infinite really quick
winter and sheoldred combo will go crazy
Valgavoth is a insane Groupslug Commander. You usually lack reliable carddraw in mid power Rakdos.
I think it will be insane!
Not sure if someone mentioned it, but Arabella has plenty of options for multiple combat phases in those colors too
we all know how powerful Underworld Breach is. With Master of keys being an enchantment only Underworld Breach in the CZ that also fills the graveyard is going to be powerful. Maybe not Tivit powerful, but still enough to win in many high powered pods.
Literally all you have to do is self mill or tutor a necromancy/animate dead and thassa’s oracle into the grave. Underworld breach the necromancy/animate dead with master of keys, then reanimate thassas oracle and its ggs you win. He’s busted lol
It's already played in cEDH. B-Tier from Mitch just tells me he doesn't think in terms of cheese.
Norin, I think, works great as a deck trying to abuse damage on ETB like Impact Tremors and attack triggers like Cavalcade of Calamity. He interestingly synergizes great with Arabella, since you can save her if the opponents try to block it!
Arabella and Marvin are 100% going in the 99% of my Caesar legions emperor deck.
Honestly, Valgavoth in Low B tier is criminal... I think many of us sleep on this dude. The amount of payoff you have is insane, you have a big commander to block, his ward triggers his ability, and he has colors to combat tricks/reanimation ! On the other side, I think Lord of pain is B tier. It's a 5 cmc commander with no protection, it's just a Kaervek at home, and it will be targeted. You have 0 payoff but, it's a fun commander ! Personal advice, ofc
I'm in the same boat as you. As a rakdos main they are so backwards
I Dont rly care wich Precon Commander is stronger in the end. Im just so excited to get my Simic Precon and upgrade it to something insane. By far the mostlikely fun to play with commander imo. Getting big enchantments and creatures from your topdeck early in the game just by ramping or flickering them is awesome.
The Mindskinner in the 99 of The Ancient One. Where I'm running stuff like Altar of the Wretched & Ruthless Technomancer.
Great video! :)
Could you please do a video about the top 10 commanders to win against tribal decks please? My regular pod uses this kind of decks and they always overwhelm me with millions of creature tokens!
Rakdos charm?
Put this on at work, Mitch's voice put everyone to sleep.
Hi Mitch, did you play edh as a guest on another channels? Ive seen you in Command Zone few years ago and i believe it was only one show you visited.
A lot of people are sleeping on Aminatou, I think she’s incredible.
Winter doesnt feel that good when you think graveyard hate has become much more common lately. Ppl will just need to keep an eye on the winter player graveyard size and enjoy the 2 extra draws.
I also feel like Winter's abilities contradict each other and make it harder to find a suitable win condition. Drawing opponents extra cards implies you want to drown them in stuff that they can't cast quickly enough and win with something like Ebony Owl Netsuke. Limiting their hand size implies you want to win with something like The Rack. But Winter doesn't actually let you do either of these things, as (unless you have further discard spells) he will make sure all opponents start with 3 cards in hand each turn which is not a good sweet spot for either Owl or Rack. So in terms of your synergistic win conditions, you're limited to only cards that punish card draw like Sheoldred. But if that's your plan, you might as well just run Nekusar and win much faster.
@@astuteanansi4935I’m tired of dumb people saying this bro. Any good self mil golgari deck has 0 issues with keeping delirium up even after having to exile shit for his effect. Reanimating ANY permanent for FREE, and all you have to do is exile 2 cards from the grave?? And you can do it multiple times every turn? And you say that’s bad? Get off the drugs Lmaooo
@@hatchell18 That's all fine and all but we were talking about the *other* Winter, the one who draws everyone 2 extra cards and reduces max hand size.
@@astuteanansi4935 got it confused my bad. A lot of people have been calling the other winter bad and I’m just like what?😂
It was worth the 9 mana to get out because using your friend's deck against him was fun but the 11 to being him back was rough
Rendmaw could be great. Build it similar to a honest rutstein cheerios deck. Just chuck a bunch of ramp and low mana creatures and watch the crows fly, literally.
I think you underrate Valgavoth, card draw in the command zone is always strong. Ward, flying and +1+1's are just additions. Don't think I would ever complain that my commander has Esper Sentinal text on it as a throw in.
Everyone say he is underrated but I believe he is fairly rated. If the card draw is his strongest benefit I have bad news for you
@@Wakka12321 Yeah cause no one plays Kraum, Tymna right? Def not because they are only card draw in the command zone.
@@Drizzly_ssb its a wait and see for me. Most magic communites were disappointed with this card, including me
@@Wakka12321 Color identity is the biggest thing holding him back, and I'm not a fan on his effect, but drawing extra cards in the command zone has always been good. I don't think he is great. But in the context of comparing him to the rest of these as commanders he is better than this placement. I agree on waiting to see though, and the disappointment with mtg products for me is real.
@@Drizzly_ssb I bought Ms Bumbleflower to try out Group Hug and was very pleased. Have been looking to getting into a Rakdos commander but didnt find anyone I liked so far. I might try out Master of Pain as Group Slug
"Exile graveyard" cards gonna skyrocket
The Mindskinner says if “A SOURCE YOU CONTROL deals damage to an opponent”, so like it doesn’t even need to attack, it just needs to exist to mill ALL opponents…and the weakness of mill normally in commander is that it’s hard to mill multiple players. Any damage triggers ALL opponent mill.
Sure, you’re playing mono blue. But building like a Merfolk or Artifact deck with a bunch of trash just attacking each turn, milling the table for every point of damage…and you’re playing Blue, so you can protect your stuff…
Not even to mention CLONE stuff. This could get insane with some clones. ONE clone copy would turn the 20 mill all players into 40 per turn, no? Since there are two copies of the effect?
Like is it S? No. A? Probably not. But I think it’s higher than C.
True. I didn't really even think about using other creatures, since mono blue is not known as a great aggro color. Maybe running this as secretly merfolk tribal is not the worst way to go. While you're working with a 100 "life" total instead of 40, you're also spreading the "damage" to all players, so it kind of evens out. And merfolk have a lot of islandwalk synergies, too. If even *one* other player at the table has blue mana, you can swing all your stuff at them and still hurt everyone else.
Yeah there's a load of unblockable blue creatures too
Tyvar is an easy s tier that thing can kill you in one turn and protects itself. Its absolutely insane
Are these all the legendaries ? Or are there more we don’t know of?
Aside from turning winter into a discard theme deck, yer opponents still have the hands until the end of their turns. So so long as they have card draw its still kinda iffy, which basically all colors have card draw at this point aside from maybe red who utilizes exile instead of draw but i digress
I feel personally vindicated because I insisted that folks were sleeping hard on Zinnia. The wording on it is super loose. All it cares about is creatures you cast. Prior to Duskmourn, I was going in to every avenue in Jeskai to bypass mana cost like Discover, Key to the Vault, etc. Norin just lets me bounce anything that gets blocked in for another Offspring trigger. I knew this thing would just be a perpetual value engine.
I am going to be commenting a lot BUT I AM excited for the scarecrow support
I didn't read the scarecrow
the second scarecrow will be good though
Kona is the new eldrazi commander, you have ways to protect it with green spells and equipment, I think that card is an A tier
This is Mitch's "my girl can hear me" voice
10:46 I think if you based The mindskinner off of Voltron and stuff like vesuvan duplimancy he could get pretty crazy
So Arabella has potential to one to two shot opponents. The fact that itself does the damage means it does Commander damage and luckily it's red/white so it has a lot of access to token generation. I can't wait to make a deck for her
I am pretty sure her ability that triggers on attack would not count as commander damage, it is not combat damage. It is the same as like Shalai and Hallar's damage pings not counting as commander damage I am pretty sure. She will still be an OP commander don't get me wrong haha. But commander damage is only through combat, not triggered effects. I think this is the ruling...not trying to be snarky I am fairly new to Magic so I want to make sure I am not missing something here!
903.10a
A player who’s been dealt 21 or more combat damage by the same commander over the course of the game loses the game. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
@@adamdiehl4495 wait so you mean to tell me Nekusars one ping a card damage isn't Commander damage?
@@adamdiehl4495 I've been being hoed ong
@@Blainprime That is correct. Commander Damage is only combat damage, so anything that is like a tap or triggered ability just does regular damage. Arabella is still going to be amazing though with all of the token and extra combat options Boros allows for!
So say you attacked with Arabella and you had 10 tokens out. You would instantly(before blockers are declared) do 10 damage to each opponent(unless they somehow killed Arabella in response to you moving to combat phase). Then if Arabella also damages a player by being unblocked, that player will take 2 commander damage(in addition to the 10 regular damage from earlier). But the 10 is still only regular damage.
Still realistically, it would be pretty easy to get Arabella to the point where 2-3 combat phases and its GG!
@@adamdiehl4495 Odd that is says that, because things like Niv Mizzet Parun can definitely win with pinging them via his ability!
It kind of sucks what theyre doing to Nashi knowing his role in the lore. As Tamiyo's son, im kind of hoping for better. His Kamigawa card was awesome but its been downhill from there
kono and Ghalta primal stampede is going to be insane
stampede tyrant
Mitch, sry to say...your wrong about the master of keys! It's S+ tier, an underworld breach for enchantments. For example, a repeatable animate dead out of your graveyard?
Underworld Breach is a strong card because it has no limitations on what it can bring back. That's what turns it into such a strong enabler for storm decks, because you can just reuse all your rituals and card draw and go off. These two cards are not even remotely comparable despite doing the same thing on the surface.
I'm not saying a limited Underworld Breach that sticks around and turns your graveyard into (sort of) an extension of your hand is *bad* by any means, but S+ is a wild overstatement when other commanders like Muldrotha do similar things but better.
@@astuteanansi4935muldrotha doesn’t do it better. He can only cast one thing from the grave each turn plus a land. Master of keys can bring back as many enchantments as you want each turn. AND it’s a self mill outlet by itself.
Literally all you have to do is self mil or tutor animate dead/necromancy into the grave then bring it back to reanimate thassas oracle and its ggs you win. The fact it also only needs 3 mana to cost instead of 6 is also way better.
@@hatchell18 Muldrotha casts one thing *of each type* per turn, not one thing in total plus a land. Master of Keys is not bad but that's not a reason to downplay a very powerful commander
@@astuteanansi4935 fair enough, he still costs 6 mana though and is a self mil outlet though, also being in esper is really nice.
everyone has their own tier list i am so confused now w/c dsk precon to get
why does Tyvar says "tap it" at the end of the first sentence? I don't get it
The problem with the voice right now is the ads volume compared to it is painful
Your voice is doing things to me.
We can always rely on Mitch for some good copium 😂
Anything above 8 mana is a crime commiting card
too many humans in the set called house of horrors
I have to disagree, WHITE is not the weakest color now. I believe it is red.
Love duskmourn
You putting master of keys in b tier is so cap😂 it’s literally underworld breach in the command zone for enchantments and he’s also a self mil outlet on his own. He’s busted asf.
I like Ballon man or Arabella
Also the winter commander for the precon is A tier. Any good self mil golgari deck has 0 issues with keeping delirium up even after having to exile shit for his effect. Reanimating ANY permanent for FREE, and all you have to do is exile 2 cards from the grave?? And you put that in c tier are you smoking crack bro?😂
Ghalta primal hunger I believe
what about Kaito? ☹️
lord of pain with kaerevek the mercyless is so strong and annoying...
i mean the voice change is nice but you might need to balance it with the loud ass intro
the wubrg one is going to be good for shrines
Voice be sooooooothing
All the sudden