As a software engineer, everything Rob said with respect to how Google and big tech tracks you is spot on. Thanks Rob for the excellent security review and the high-value PSA (Public Service Announcement).
@@robbraxmantech Can you review lineage OS for MicroG? A fork of the lineage build that implement MicroG (to replace google services) and selectively provide spoofing only for microG? (instead of a general one)
YES! It is funny how engineers are attacked and called "conspiracy theorists" by people that know nothing about but claim we should hear the "experts'... Well, f- them! I"M HEARING A EXPERT! FFS! They are so out of reality... They say "expert" when they never researched about those stuffs, they can't name a single expert...
School education systems are outdated. Funny enough just as old outdated computer operating systems, it leaves the users vulnerable to stuff, just like, all the stuff they do not teach us about.
Why would they do that when school is designed to dumb you down and indoctrinate you. These phones are designed to track, spy and sell your data. They would not teach you this for that reason..
lol, back in my primary school, they taught IT like everyone was a numb fk, we were told to memorise where the cross(close button of a window on Windows XP) was, I mean looking back at it, even the moment I got my own laptop was just leaving me speechless, I feel like i was treated even dumber than (or less intelligent) as a caveman from stoneage
Well why don't they teach surgery in school? Just because we are interested in things like a custom rom there is no reason to teach that specific tech things in school. Although i agree that schools are very outdated in the tech education
This is why i was so upset when google bought the project for modular phones it would have been amazing to have removable gps wifi and bluetooth moduals or hardware kill switches. Google killed it immediately because this would have destroyed the phone market(driving prices down due to 3rd party hardware competition) and messed with their data analytics.
@@angelnajera7169 it was called project Ara. I distinctly remember it originally as kickstarter project with a code name like project lisa or something weird then i remember hearing google acquired it. But apparently i was wrong and google somehow owned it all along, and it is called project ara. Its times like this when i feel like im in the wrong timeline... Heres the wiki on project ara en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara
There already is a great upcoming option in the form of Pinephone and Librem 5. Both of them are primarily manufactured entirely in China and that's my biggest concern(hardware backdoors and some blobs they haven't yet gotten an open source alternative for), but there already is a Librem 5 USA version, in time this phone can become cheaper and be manufactured in other places that are more trustworthy than China so future has great options coming up.
@@randomrandom316 Yeah. That's going to take a WHILE though. The librem seems to be pretty backlogged. Though hardware killswitches have me the most excited.
You can disable WiFi Scanning, and Bluetooth Scanning. A simple RF meter will reveal if the phone is still emanating RF with those features disabled, and while the phone is in Airplane Mode to confirm.
because he also posts everything on LBRY so if they kick him here, it will draw thousands of people to LBRY overnight... they're better off with people watching him here than LBRY
Because Google doesn't care. A very small percentage of people are actually going to ditch all Google services. Not even Rob ditched all Google services, it's practically impossible at this point.
Thank you for this video. English is not my primary language and I don't need to read the auto subtitle, thanks to your slow and clear speech. Edit : subscribed. Your new videos in 4K are so nice to look at
14:10 this is a problem that isn't unique to just phones, like how HP Laptop audio drivers were found to have built-in keyloggers. It just goes to show there is no software solution for top-notch privacy. The only Android phone I know about to have completely rewritten drivers is the galaxy S3, and that is hardly powerful enough to keep up with today's demands.
The S3 probably is very powerful (I can't remember the specs) but modern websites/apps are very bloated. Take Windows 10 vs Linux on an old laptop for example.
there is a Pinephone pro which can hold up and can run android inside a container called waydroid and can be even your pc and phone but this won't be useable for most because you need to rethink how updates work and what lifelong updates means
GPS has worked indoors for years ever since the company called Sirf invented a GPS receiver that can pick up fragments of GPS signal and piece them together. Obviously outdoors is a better signal but you can get a GPS position indoors these days
That's why I use rooted devices with firewall and xposed framework, blocking all no necessary outgoing traffic and providing false data about location, contacts etc. to apps.
@@Broxine With Xposed framework which can provide fake contacts, location etc. Very useful tool with many different plugins. I can't post links so try to search "android xposed framework".
As you appreciate queries, if i heard you right, I would like to do the honors: 1. Your motive behind naming a particular custom ROM developer when you know that all custom ROMs are built on the code that google releases to AOSP on its own terms and conditions. 2. Why this mismatch between saying and doing? For example, being google agnostic and running a channel here on RUclips, an app developed and controlled by Google. How'd you explain it? 3. Any app made to use WiFi, be it open source or proprietary, is bound to scan AP's otherwise it will burn a hole in users metered data. In order to connect to the AP, it needs its exact location and MAC which is impossible without utilizing the GPS. If these locations and MAC's are stored on the device, they are equally open to all potential abusers. Then, why blame only Google knowing that it is the big data miner in the market? 4. Given the continued attempts from Governments all over the globe to regulate and control the internet, what do you suppose that different ISP's should do? Should they rise against the law of the land and get kicked in the belly or what? 5. This point is related to your wifi trangulation remark. Anonymously determining user locations is part of virtually every cell phone carrier's terms-of-service, though most phones allow the user to turn off location services. If the ball is in a user's coat, why do you blame anyone else? And how would you explain this that the same WiFi triangulation is used to track persons in a storm, blizzard, or cast away by some shipwreck, etc? 6. With the exception of Linux kernel, entire Android OS is developed by Google from scratch. Interestingly, Google also contributes to the development of Linux Kernel, sending patches etc. Then, how much difference would removing a single app like 'Play store' make? What about those millions of code snippets that run deep in the OS informing Google about everything it's interested in. Microsoft's windows suffers the same setback and privacy conscious people started to moving to Linux. 7. Web-Apps are better? Google's Chrome, Microsoft's Internet Explorer, Apple's Safari are all a part of this game. No doubt, there are some privacy respecting browsers like Mozilla's Firefox or Tor browser, but they can't be used to their full potential on a platform like Android. So, there is no foolproof privacy and security when you know you can't control all things of which Android is composed of. Perhaps, that's why some tech savvy people prefer Linux as it can be built from scratch, controlling every bit of data entering or leaving the machine. 8. Pardon my French, what I found in this video is an atrocious concoction of crap, completely incoherent, leading by the topic "Is LineageOS Safe for privacy" but never touching it clearly or giving evidence in support of or against it. Your 18 minute video can hardly provide a single substantial information which could identify LineageOS in particular as a good or bad custom ROM. Whatever things you mentioned are so general and applicable to every goddam ROM and gadget that the viewer ultimately forgets why he or she is actually viewing your video. 9. Let me put it this way - world Governments today have geared their efforts to to regulate "Internet" and are always in search of excuses to make laws in this context. You might be familiar with the terms like "Five Eyes", " Nine Eyes", "Fourteen Eyes", " Trinaitra", "the Great Wall", the India Wall" and so on. When our governments don't want us to be secure, how can we blame big organizations whose sole motive is profits? 8. When a phone or some electronic gadget comes to the market, it had to sign many agreements with the government and comply with the terms therein. You'll always see these terms are government friendly and tax related. Did you ever see a pro-citizen condition in these agreements? For example, govt enforcing the vendor for post sales service to customers. Had this been so, you would not have felt constrained to look for a new phone in just four years period. What about the hard earned mony you are forced to waste in the shape of your old phone which is getting outdated due to nonavailability of updates and security patches? Who's responsible for this - a phone vendor who wants to sell you a new phone or the government which lets him get away with it? 9. Scaring away the phone users is no solution, I agree. But, they have to understand that social media is not the only place to be idling. Internet is also an informal school where you could become aware through search and research. An informed person is the only one who can live with ever changing technology without making fuss.
This has been so informative! I appreciate all the effort of explaining WHAT our choices are first before making a decision. Even my dopamine-starved brain sat and listen to every word you said. I've subbed and liked!
Also one very disturbing thing, i have lg g8 i was on discord chat and my phone froze i could still hear and talk to people in the chat, i helld the power for hard reset the chat was still going after the phone was off and didn't turn off untill i began to boot the device again. I have no idea how this happened but it is very disturbing.
Check these out: Calyx OS ruclips.net/video/heVNcdq2MKA/видео.html /e/OS part 1 ruclips.net/video/C9fFiaGv2WA/видео.html /e/OS part 2 ruclips.net/video/m_fijLQxZLU/видео.html
When I met my gf she gave me her phone number and 2 days later she was on my Facebook recommendations. WTF!! Also moved and Facebook started recommending people that were in my area. WTF!!! My friend made a Facebook. He didn't add anybody and he popped up on my recommendations even though he hadn't added anyone..WTF!!!!!
Never had the desire to install Facebook. I owned their stock at one time but sold it all for a small profit. I do use WeChat. Even though I've been told it's parent company Tencent is connected to the Chinese Communist Party, I find that the built-in privacy features make it a better social media app as an American living in the USA anyway. Not sure how it would be if I was Chinese living in China and using WeChat.
Hey Rob, can you make a video about the evolution of cyber surveillance in phone's? I would be intrested to know how thing's where implemented the way they are. You also inspired me to switch from windows to linux and start studying to become a system and network admin. i will try to do this for my phone as well.
anytime i set up my g account on a new phone i always uncheck network scanning and location access for sure. id love to see some company come out with an actual affordable phone that is on par with android and i phone that is pro privacy.
Great video with a lot of information, clearly, slowly and detailed enough to understand! I would have appreciated you to clean your sweater though. Distracted me a lot xD
Odd question but can other people view us on the front or rear facing cameras? Can people access my pics? If I took nude shots of myself, should I be concerned that it will pop up in one of the thousands of porn sites? Or are photos, vid or the phone camera not a concern? Thanks
I find a very big advantage of using Lineageos is I am able to back up my phone which on most phones these days seems to be pretty much impossible but for me an essential feature for any computer. So I can now keep a spare phone (same make/model) ready should my current phone break or be lost and I can quickly restore my latest backup to the spare phone and be back in business with an identical phone no stress...
@@BadAssBlackOverlord Basically I boot in to the TWRP recovery on the phone and run a full backup then take a copy of all files on the phone to my PC. To restore I boot in to TWRP, copy all files back to the phone from my PC, run a TWRP restore and the phone is exactly as it was when I did the backup :-) Some phones have a backup option in the recovery as standard but the time I relied on this it turned out it would only restore to that specific device so I was unable to recover anything from it when my phone was lost...
@@alanesq1 What the hell... I didn't even know this was a thing. Will try myself when my de-googled phone comes in and see what my options are. Thanks for the short guide.
@@alanesq1 Also can you get LineageOS from the same stock android you re-purchased or do you have to flash the rom all over again and then restore? Hopefully the former.
@@BadAssBlackOverlord I use a Wileyfox Storm phone, I have very limited experience of other phones etc. but when I restore to a stock phone I usually just have to install the TWRP recovery and do a restore although I have had one I had to first install the newer stock rom before this would work? If the phone you have is not too expensive I would buy another one then see if I can restore my backup to this successfully, when this is done you then have a backup phone ready to go when you need it.
I have deployed pi-hole on home network. In addition to box standard gravity black list, I have added many more suspicious regex such as jio, facebook, Chinese sites and mobile phone vendors’ api and telemetry uri
Wow, just so happen to run into your video and I'm sold. This is great stuff, did not miss a beat and well put together. I will be tuning and network your channel. Your skill as an instructor is extremely important for detailing the purpose of each category, and you nail it. Trust me, I will browse through all your videos. Thank you sir for your contribution of knowledge.
just replaced the old samsung touchwiz of my Samsung Tab S 8.4 to Lineage OS 14.1 , i love it, smooth as butter and daily updates, up to December 5, 2020 android security patch lately, waiting for February 2021 release... :D
So I installed LineageOS on my brand new Samsung M51 without google applications (gapps): installed lineageOS + magisk, then on the system Magisk I installed MicroG + riru + riru edXposed. After rebooting, installed fake gapps2 + edXposed manager, opened the edXposed manager and activated the two modules in there, and then rebooted. With that, I can run these google applications without having google play services. I know that this isn't perfect for my privacy, but this is a WAY better solution for at least getting these applications running on the phone without a problem, with notifications and all the stuff. I do prefer downloading apps on F-Droid, but if I can't, download it on Aurora Store.
Fun fact: On the privacy guard of lineage, gapps was tracking my location everytime, but without gapps (now with microg), microg doesnt even appear on that privacy guard, even considering it does have total acces of my phone.
@@melany63 I can see you have some skills with doing that. Is there a way I can do that with my Honor 20 Pro too? I couldn't find anything about that in the internet for my phone
@@JOAFINDICHJOA Unfortunaly, no: I coudn't find any custom recovery for your device, and since there's no android OS oficially supporting your phone, a custom recovery is mandatory. I'm sorry.
@@melany63 Thank you for your efforts! I guess the developers of custom ROMS did not like this Phone. I guess I have to make compromises and do the best I can do to secure my privacy. I installed Netguard and blocked all apps I do not use. And I deactivated a lot of google settings. It is a really interesting topic and there are a lot of things to learn I am excited to be on that way now
@@melany63 Update: I bought a used Google Pixel 3 XL in a good condition for 150€. I flashed GraphenOS on it, I can't Believe that I Managed to Do that xD I willl give the Honor 20 pro to my mum
i hate apps i hate notifications i dont understand why apps exist i just want to log in to websites and log out if i want to i have no way to check whether the things you say here are true but you seem to be informative, which i appreciate
Wifi triangulation is definitely NOT of any use in turn by turn navigation. Considering the average router can reach 25-50 feet line of sight to a phone, routers inside homes and stores simply cannot reach a typical phone driving past on the roads.
The most important and easiest thing you can do is reduce the services you use in the first place. I use Firefox browser with Ecosia search (it's totally convenient and user-friendly), soon will ditch Gmail and Google photos, never use google location services for anything, and restrict permissions. Replacing Google services framework with MicroG will be the next step.
I definitely have a wide experience using microG. It is definitely a night and day difference when it comes to battery life - I get a longer battery runtime with microG than Google Mobile Services. I do see slightly better overall performance, but I wouldn't comment much on that since it depends on the app in question. I remembered my phone running decently well until I installed WeChat. Let's just say that it really took a toll on the phone's overall performance really hard.
Why should I trust other companies more than Google? Just becoz they're not as big as GG? It's insane with these blind GG hatred. Everybody'sin the business for making money, even the open-source community work could be doubtful, left alone these private companies or entities other than Google. GG has been providing the most convenient free apps to help mid and low income workers, while the filthy rich are sitting idlly being paranoid that they're tracked. You better off make your own librabries, services, apis, and servers, and secure your own private internet if you want guaranteed safety. If not, there's no such guarantee, such that Ecosia, duckduck go engines, or Firefox..browsers are more trustable than GG. These are just nonsense hype. I rather have ONLY google track me than having a bunch of small/uncontrollable companies do it. 1 to lookout for is much better than 100s.
Thank you for the content.. can you explain the Exacly different between this and e/os ... would you Recommend e/os ? And can you Tell something about the Fairphone which include e/ os
Can you please make an updated video on this? I have been told that LineageOS is "just" AOSP". It's imho still better than the even more invasive and restrictive vendor-branded versions of most Androids, and it tends to extend the life span of a phone, too, but other than that, I'm not so sure.
honestly, i'm excited of how are we walking on the edge of privacy nowadays. i would really like to move from stock rom to a custom. but my stock samsung 21 has no custom working os alternatives.the only way to get rid of google is by disabling it via adb. same as samsung apps. but there is no good guide of what apps exactly are safe to disable.
I am a sysadmin and this guy is spot on try to share the video to educate more ppl ... again NEVER PUT ANY important info data on your mobile devices if u have no choice and need to have a mobile payment method use a different small credit card with a limit of like 500$ on it etc try to seperate your real bank accounts and credit card from the mobile device
I love your videos man, am all about privacy and security although I don’t have anything to hide but I think that the more they know the more they can manipulate you. What do you think about the one plus open 2 device? I really like that phone and am trying to transition to all linux with lineage os even linux for gaming etc plus my own nextcloud. What is your opinion on all that?
First time seeing one of your videos. Extremely impressed by the way you broke down your message in a logical step by step manner that made it easy to understand and come to the conclusions drawn. I did not know GOOGLE had designed so many features designed to track and record various characteristics of people! A couple of questions tho... I realized when I was a young adolescent that if I wrapped my phone on aluminum foil and tried calling it, it would not ring, even if I was mere feet away from it. Would blocking its ability to recieve and send signals like so also be efficient against the threats mentioned? Also, if one was to use a different OS and use apps outside of the play store, do you mean you can go to websites like apk pure and download apps from there that are found on the play store (whether created by Google or not.) You mention wifi triangulation {I believe that's what you referred to it as}... If you turned off the wifi, would it still be able to? Many phones these days have the option of spoofing the MAC address, does this solve the problem of them using your MAC address? You mention kill switches... Do certain OSes not have the ability to use the software to turn the hardware off? And last but not least, I've been considering rooting my phone for quite some time now and recently purchased an Umidigi A11 Pro Max. It seems very vanilla and very easy to root and flash... Is this phone capable of running Ubuntu touch? If not can you provide me with a few examples? Excellent presentation! Subscribing right off the batt!
Covering it with aluminum foil would block any signal, so basically yes, it's the most effective way by far, if you don't have a Linux phone. This is also shown in one of the Terminator movies where Sara Connor covers her phone with a bag of potato chips (which is made of aluminum) so she doesn't get tracked.
There's no need for blobs. Basebands have backdoors period. So the only consolation is that you can switch it off on the lIbrem 5 and it doesn't share main memory bus
What about a good voice assistant, like a replacement of "hey Google what is my next turn" or "hey Google how far away is the next rest area" ... driving an 80 thousand pound weapon of mass destruction... I don't look at my phone when I drive, and i use voice assistant alot .. And what are my options with the Samsung Note ten plus 5G?
Great video, but 5:25 was a stretch and not a very good test in my opinion. You may be right, but I don't like the method, it's not a direct measurement.
I am "always at home", too. I wonder what you would do with the knowledge of a general security threat: the almost unknown RSA flaw, which makes security completely transparent to a few "agents", namely NSA, CCP and very few other.
i like your precise straight to the point approach ,easy for everybody to understand explanations without delving to deep into the technical mumble jumble .
I dont know if u will even read this, but to the mac adress part, on the PC it obviously makes sense to spoof it since on PC we have root access anyways but what bout phones? Cuz i know rooting opens backdoors but in case i wanna stay safe from getting identified by my MAC? What brings more risk? Leaking my MAC or rooting?
Until the general public has more options of OS and hardware options with kill switches and replaceable / fixable parts, we will not have a realistic choice. Most people do not have the knowledge of how to install a new OS onto their device. Right now, you have to have at least knowledge of the command line and some coding knowledge to be able to do what Rob is suggesting here. As it stands, the current market (iOS and Android) are the only two realistic choices. Both use 3rd party companies that scan your data and monitor your devices. It is simply unrealistic to expect the general public to understand this without the existence of several other OS options to choose from. A monopoly is an understaement.
I'm a seasoned seamstress by hobby, and an infosec consultant by trade. I'm thinking long and hard about a line of faraday cellphone cases, backpacks, and handbags. Thoughts? Kill it right at the physical layer?
in terms of wifi triangulation: What if you use internet via a 4G hotspot and take that everywhere with you? I know it's a bit inconvenient but it is another layer to go though to find your real location. It will be the 4G signal that moves around then, not the wifi signal
i always used , magisk in combination with Xprivacy ( an app, where you can set for every other apps even the google apps , what they may and may not know. network, location, microphone, analytices, and so on ) i hopt his makes me a bit more secure and private. SInce hell broke lose ( furter stripping of our privacy because of a 'virus' ) i stepped back to a Nokia flipphone that is 10 years old, or even older.. :) thank you for the very informative video
I'm a little confused after this video. In lineage os's website there is no rom without gapps as i understood. then i thought what about aosp. i found 2 options. aospextended and sony's aosp. I still don't they coming with or without gapps sametime with these 4 threats. can you do a video about this or complete clear solution without these threats? thanks from now & sorry for my bad English : )
Hey, I attended a workshop about online self defense by Digital Courage, a German Data Protection NGO, a couple of weeks ago. They told us about Lineage OS which is how I found your great channel. While my phone is supported by the system my tablet is not. Neither it is supported by Ubuntu touch. Are there ways of running lineage os or ubuntu touch on a Samsung Galaxy Tab A? Greetings from Germany (=
Usually a Tablet has no cell service so then the answer is just to use it on a VPN network or install a VPN on it. And if it has cell capability, remove the SIM card
12:30 I am running AOSP 6.0 Marshmallow (with Google play services disabled, and thereby, all GAapps uninstalled). @ROB please tell me if Google telemetry still applies on me!! (most apps show the notification that this app won't work without Google Play Services but they work nonetheless)!!
Mostly you're fine. But each individual app even if not from the play store could be using some Google API like Firebase. Basically the same advice as LineageOS applies to any base AOSP
gps is accurate to 6 inches but by law that accuracy can not be released to civilians so the government or those approved by them can find you unless inside
in a nutshell, there's no escape unless you simply don't use a phone. well we got on well in the 80s and 90s without fancy smart phones, can do just that these days. if you wanna game, use nox or bluestacks or just use a tablet and keep it at home. if you need to call, get a 1998 sprint flip phone?
9:30 if you're knowledgeable about privacy threats and just wanna hear about lineage
thx
thx
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thx
As a software engineer, everything Rob said with respect to how Google and big tech tracks you is spot on.
Thanks Rob for the excellent security review and the high-value PSA (Public Service Announcement).
thank you
He is a SE too 😂
@@mhrf90 he understands the inner workings because he is, in fact, a software engineer. That's my point
@@robbraxmantech Can you review lineage OS for MicroG? A fork of the lineage build that implement MicroG (to replace google services) and selectively provide spoofing only for microG? (instead of a general one)
YES! It is funny how engineers are attacked and called "conspiracy theorists" by people that know nothing about but claim we should hear the "experts'... Well, f- them! I"M HEARING A EXPERT! FFS! They are so out of reality... They say "expert" when they never researched about those stuffs, they can't name a single expert...
as an experienced developer, I'm impressed with you knowledge, subscribed in a heartbeat!
Checkout my github then. github.com/robbraxman/
@Fine Wine really i am not a developer but this is basic stuff was nothing new also he is talking so slow and the video is 17 minute
@@anands1079 i speed him up to1.5....all good then.
I agree with OG poster! 💯💯
@@anands1079 That Ok. I'm old and hard of hearing.
In current scenario ... All these knowledge should be part of school education ...
School education systems are outdated.
Funny enough just as old outdated computer operating systems, it leaves the users vulnerable to stuff, just like, all the stuff they do not teach us about.
Why would they do that when school is designed to dumb you down and indoctrinate you. These phones are designed to track, spy and sell your data. They would not teach you this for that reason..
lol, back in my primary school, they taught IT like everyone was a numb fk, we were told to memorise where the cross(close button of a window on Windows XP) was, I mean looking back at it, even the moment I got my own laptop was just leaving me speechless, I feel like i was treated even dumber than (or less intelligent) as a caveman from stoneage
@@91722854 same feeling 😅😂
Well why don't they teach surgery in school? Just because we are interested in things like a custom rom there is no reason to teach that specific tech things in school. Although i agree that schools are very outdated in the tech education
This is why i was so upset when google bought the project for modular phones it would have been amazing to have removable gps wifi and bluetooth moduals or hardware kill switches.
Google killed it immediately because this would have destroyed the phone market(driving prices down due to 3rd party hardware competition) and messed with their data analytics.
Wait, which project?
@@angelnajera7169 it was called project Ara. I distinctly remember it originally as kickstarter project with a code name like project lisa or something weird then i remember hearing google acquired it.
But apparently i was wrong and google somehow owned it all along, and it is called project ara.
Its times like this when i feel like im in the wrong timeline...
Heres the wiki on project ara
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara
There already is a great upcoming option in the form of Pinephone and Librem 5. Both of them are primarily manufactured entirely in China and that's my biggest concern(hardware backdoors and some blobs they haven't yet gotten an open source alternative for), but there already is a Librem 5 USA version, in time this phone can become cheaper and be manufactured in other places that are more trustworthy than China so future has great options coming up.
@@randomrandom316 i applaud your optimism
@@randomrandom316 Yeah. That's going to take a WHILE though. The librem seems to be pretty backlogged. Though hardware killswitches have me the most excited.
I am throwing my phone out and gonna live my life out in the forest. Goodbye everybody.
@mooots Capitalism is private property rights. You can buy the forest. The problem is the government that taxes you.
Gayyyyy
hows going out there homie
@Agnish Roy lmao
I will move there with you. How can I get in contact with you?
You can disable WiFi Scanning, and Bluetooth Scanning. A simple RF meter will reveal if the phone is still emanating RF with those features disabled, and while the phone is in Airplane Mode to confirm.
the mistake oneplus made with the opo was that they made it too future proof, am still using it, Los is still compatible and being updated for opo
I'm curious why this video is still on RUclips!?😳
@@SpaceTimeBeing_ he might be referring to the fact that google don’t like these kind of videos
because he also posts everything on LBRY so if they kick him here, it will draw thousands of people to LBRY overnight... they're better off with people watching him here than LBRY
Because Google doesn't care. A very small percentage of people are actually going to ditch all Google services. Not even Rob ditched all Google services, it's practically impossible at this point.
Because RUclips isn't from China, North Korea or Russia
because theyre not sure if it would be considered racist
Thank you for this video. English is not my primary language and I don't need to read the auto subtitle, thanks to your slow and clear speech.
Edit : subscribed. Your new videos in 4K are so nice to look at
14:10 this is a problem that isn't unique to just phones, like how HP Laptop audio drivers were found to have built-in keyloggers. It just goes to show there is no software solution for top-notch privacy. The only Android phone I know about to have completely rewritten drivers is the galaxy S3, and that is hardly powerful enough to keep up with today's demands.
Have more Info? I have s5 but i will go down if it is worth it.
Wtf
The S3 probably is very powerful (I can't remember the specs) but modern websites/apps are very bloated. Take Windows 10 vs Linux on an old laptop for example.
there is a Pinephone pro which can hold up and can run android inside a container called waydroid and can be even your pc and phone but this won't be useable for most because you need to rethink how updates work and what lifelong updates means
GPS has worked indoors for years ever since the company called Sirf invented a GPS receiver that can pick up fragments of GPS signal and piece them together. Obviously outdoors is a better signal but you can get a GPS position indoors these days
Boomers: I don't trust those smart devices
Millenials: lol ok boomer
Zoomers: I don't trust those smart devices
the circle is completed
@nonameroy101 lol okay boomer.🙃
the the millenials just continue with "Ok zoomer".
My generation sucks most of the time.
Nah plenty of Gen Z stuck in that mentality too.
Most of gen Z is just signing their information away to tech
5:36 Nice router name 😂
HAHA, I didn't catch that..
I don‘t even own a Android device and I still watched the whole thing. Very interesting.
Most things here said also are true for an iOS device
@Max Raider siri as an example listening 24/7
@Max Raider what's with the reports of siri listening to drug deals and people having sex ?
You access the internet, have a Google account... that's plenty to collect data from ;)
Pașca Alexandru: Din păcate, acest lucru este adevărat
That's why I use rooted devices with firewall and xposed framework, blocking all no necessary outgoing traffic and providing false data about location, contacts etc. to apps.
How do you provide false data?
@@Broxine With Xposed framework which can provide fake contacts, location etc. Very useful tool with many different plugins. I can't post links so try to search "android xposed framework".
As you appreciate queries, if i heard you right, I would like to do the honors:
1. Your motive behind naming a particular custom ROM developer when you know that all custom ROMs are built on the code that google releases to AOSP on its own terms and conditions.
2. Why this mismatch between saying and doing? For example, being google agnostic and running a channel here on RUclips, an app developed and controlled by Google. How'd you explain it?
3. Any app made to use WiFi, be it open source or proprietary, is bound to scan AP's otherwise it will burn a hole in users metered data. In order to connect to the AP, it needs its exact location and MAC which is impossible without utilizing the GPS. If these locations and MAC's are stored on the device, they are equally open to all potential abusers. Then, why blame only Google knowing that it is the big data miner in the market?
4. Given the continued attempts from Governments all over the globe to regulate and control the internet, what do you suppose that different ISP's should do? Should they rise against the law of the land and get kicked in the belly or what?
5. This point is related to your wifi trangulation remark. Anonymously determining user locations is part of virtually every cell phone carrier's terms-of-service, though most phones allow the user to turn off location services. If the ball is in a user's coat, why do you blame anyone else? And how would you explain this that the same WiFi triangulation is used to track persons in a storm, blizzard, or cast away by some shipwreck, etc?
6. With the exception of Linux kernel, entire Android OS is developed by Google from scratch. Interestingly, Google also contributes to the development of Linux Kernel, sending patches etc. Then, how much difference would removing a single app like 'Play store' make? What about those millions of code snippets that run deep in the OS informing Google about everything it's interested in. Microsoft's windows suffers the same setback and privacy conscious people started to moving to Linux.
7. Web-Apps are better? Google's Chrome, Microsoft's Internet Explorer, Apple's Safari are all a part of this game. No doubt, there are some privacy respecting browsers like Mozilla's Firefox or Tor browser, but they can't be used to their full potential on a platform like Android. So, there is no foolproof privacy and security when you know you can't control all things of which Android is composed of. Perhaps, that's why some tech savvy people prefer Linux as it can be built from scratch, controlling every bit of data entering or leaving the machine.
8. Pardon my French, what I found in this video is an atrocious concoction of crap, completely incoherent, leading by the topic "Is LineageOS Safe for privacy" but never touching it clearly or giving evidence in support of or against it. Your 18 minute video can hardly provide a single substantial information which could identify LineageOS in particular as a good or bad custom ROM. Whatever things you mentioned are so general and applicable to every goddam ROM and gadget that the viewer ultimately forgets why he or she is actually viewing your video.
9. Let me put it this way - world Governments today have geared their efforts to to regulate "Internet" and are always in search of excuses to make laws in this context. You might be familiar with the terms like "Five Eyes", " Nine Eyes", "Fourteen Eyes", " Trinaitra", "the Great Wall", the India Wall" and so on. When our governments don't want us to be secure, how can we blame big organizations whose sole motive is profits?
8. When a phone or some electronic gadget comes to the market, it had to sign many agreements with the government and comply with the terms therein. You'll always see these terms are government friendly and tax related. Did you ever see a pro-citizen condition in these agreements? For example, govt enforcing the vendor for post sales service to customers. Had this been so, you would not have felt constrained to look for a new phone in just four years period. What about the hard earned mony you are forced to waste in the shape of your old phone which is getting outdated due to nonavailability of updates and security patches? Who's responsible for this - a phone vendor who wants to sell you a new phone or the government which lets him get away with it?
9. Scaring away the phone users is no solution, I agree. But, they have to understand that social media is not the only place to be idling. Internet is also an informal school where you could become aware through search and research. An informed person is the only one who can live with ever changing technology without making fuss.
Dude really appreciated this! You really broke down everything in easy to understand way! Thank you! Definitely subscribing!
Thanks for the sub!
The one tech security reviewer who does not talk at the speed of sound !!
This has been so informative! I appreciate all the effort of explaining WHAT our choices are first before making a decision. Even my dopamine-starved brain sat and listen to every word you said. I've subbed and liked!
Also one very disturbing thing, i have lg g8 i was on discord chat and my phone froze i could still hear and talk to people in the chat, i helld the power for hard reset the chat was still going after the phone was off and didn't turn off untill i began to boot the device again. I have no idea how this happened but it is very disturbing.
Unless you remove the battery, it’s never really powered off
@@catvideos3249 cant remove because waterproof bs
Very interesting ! Definitely worthes warching it ! "doing a little for your privacy is better than doing nothing"... well said !
Stunning job, Rob! That’s something everyone should watch before using any android smartphone.
Great video. Wld be good to see a comparison with Graphene OS.
Check these out:
Calyx OS ruclips.net/video/heVNcdq2MKA/видео.html
/e/OS part 1 ruclips.net/video/C9fFiaGv2WA/видео.html
/e/OS part 2 ruclips.net/video/m_fijLQxZLU/видео.html
When I met my gf she gave me her phone number and 2 days later she was on my Facebook recommendations. WTF!! Also moved and Facebook started recommending people that were in my area. WTF!!! My friend made a Facebook. He didn't add anybody and he popped up on my recommendations even though he hadn't added anyone..WTF!!!!!
zucked!
So relatable, even to my online shopping apps
dude I baught toothpaste with my credit card and two mins later had toothpaste yt adds infront of videos.
Never had the desire to install Facebook. I owned their stock at one time but sold it all for a small profit. I do use WeChat. Even though I've been told it's parent company Tencent is connected to the Chinese Communist Party, I find that the built-in privacy features make it a better social media app as an American living in the USA anyway. Not sure how it would be if I was Chinese living in China and using WeChat.
same I was "talking" with my gf about car insurance and got all the ads I could get lol
Hey Rob, can you make a video about the evolution of cyber surveillance in phone's? I would be intrested to know how thing's where implemented the way they are. You also inspired me to switch from windows to linux and start studying to become a system and network admin. i will try to do this for my phone as well.
anytime i set up my g account on a new phone i always uncheck network scanning and location access for sure. id love to see some company come out with an actual affordable phone that is on par with android and i phone that is pro privacy.
Nice job, Rob... Just in time and just what I needed to know. Keep 'em coming, if you have the bandwidth... Rob N.
Great and very informative! I Zucking love it!
I see what you did there. 😏👌
Hi Rob, thanks for your informative videos.
I would be very pleased if you reviewed CalyxOS some day in the near future.
Excellent video about the lack of privacy and too much power Big Tech has! Congratulations!
Thank you!
Use fdroid and apk pure plus a rooted phone with xprivacy
APKpure now has its own "store" application which is fantastic!
What are apk plus and x privacy?
@@lucasb0rges bruh it exists since 2016 probably
Well aurora store is far better option
@@buzdi_dop unfortunatly its "burner" accounts all got shut down.
so you will need to make a spare account for google.
0:44 it's still Android, just not really with Google suite. You need to flash gapps for that
Correct
yeah exactly
it was just kinda phrased like he meant it as if it was not
the next big thing in youtube. Keep up the good work, sir.
Great video with a lot of information, clearly, slowly and detailed enough to understand!
I would have appreciated you to clean your sweater though. Distracted me a lot xD
Never have seen your videos before but this one sold me! Very well done! Subscribed!
We are in a double bind
Odd question but can other people view us on the front or rear facing cameras? Can people access my pics? If I took nude shots of myself, should I be concerned that it will pop up in one of the thousands of porn sites? Or are photos, vid or the phone camera not a concern? Thanks
5:55 This is major information. I knew about firebase but didn't know other telemetry can be baked in as well!
Thank you for your time. very intuitive video. Thanks again
Why didn't I see this channel sooner. Very informative sir thank you.
I find a very big advantage of using Lineageos is I am able to back up my phone which on most phones these days seems to be pretty much impossible but for me an essential feature for any computer. So I can now keep a spare phone (same make/model) ready should my current phone break or be lost and I can quickly restore my latest backup to the spare phone and be back in business with an identical phone no stress...
I don't believe that's even possible.
@@BadAssBlackOverlord Basically I boot in to the TWRP recovery on the phone and run a full backup then take a copy of all files on the phone to my PC. To restore I boot in to TWRP, copy all files back to the phone from my PC, run a TWRP restore and the phone is exactly as it was when I did the backup :-)
Some phones have a backup option in the recovery as standard but the time I relied on this it turned out it would only restore to that specific device so I was unable to recover anything from it when my phone was lost...
@@alanesq1 What the hell... I didn't even know this was a thing. Will try myself when my de-googled phone comes in and see what my options are. Thanks for the short guide.
@@alanesq1 Also can you get LineageOS from the same stock android you re-purchased or do you have to flash the rom all over again and then restore? Hopefully the former.
@@BadAssBlackOverlord I use a Wileyfox Storm phone, I have very limited experience of other phones etc. but when I restore to a stock phone I usually just have to install the TWRP recovery and do a restore although I have had one I had to first install the newer stock rom before this would work?
If the phone you have is not too expensive I would buy another one then see if I can restore my backup to this successfully, when this is done you then have a backup phone ready to go when you need it.
I have deployed pi-hole on home network. In addition to box standard gravity black list, I have added many more suspicious regex such as jio, facebook, Chinese sites and mobile phone vendors’ api and telemetry uri
Thanks for the excellent information. Would like to hear your views on LineageOS for MicroG with regards to these issues you discussed. Many thanks
Watch my many other de-Googled videos
@@robbraxmantech Will do. Thanks
Love the content, really eye opening!
Wow, just so happen to run into your video and I'm sold. This is great stuff, did not miss a beat and well put together. I will be tuning and network your channel. Your skill as an instructor is extremely important for detailing the purpose of each category, and you nail it. Trust me, I will browse through all your videos. Thank you sir for your contribution of knowledge.
just replaced the old samsung touchwiz of my Samsung Tab S 8.4 to Lineage OS 14.1 , i love it, smooth as butter and daily updates, up to December 5, 2020 android security patch lately, waiting for February 2021 release... :D
RUclips really needs to introduce that 4x video speed already. 2x is like normal speed for this video...
So I installed LineageOS on my brand new Samsung M51 without google applications (gapps): installed lineageOS + magisk, then on the system Magisk I installed MicroG + riru + riru edXposed. After rebooting, installed fake gapps2 + edXposed manager, opened the edXposed manager and activated the two modules in there, and then rebooted.
With that, I can run these google applications without having google play services. I know that this isn't perfect for my privacy, but this is a WAY better solution for at least getting these applications running on the phone without a problem, with notifications and all the stuff. I do prefer downloading apps on F-Droid, but if I can't, download it on Aurora Store.
Fun fact: On the privacy guard of lineage, gapps was tracking my location everytime, but without gapps (now with microg), microg doesnt even appear on that privacy guard, even considering it does have total acces of my phone.
@@melany63 I can see you have some skills with doing that. Is there a way I can do that with my Honor 20 Pro too? I couldn't find anything about that in the internet for my phone
@@JOAFINDICHJOA Unfortunaly, no: I coudn't find any custom recovery for your device, and since there's no android OS oficially supporting your phone, a custom recovery is mandatory. I'm sorry.
@@melany63 Thank you for your efforts! I guess the developers of custom ROMS did not like this Phone. I guess I have to make compromises and do the best I can do to secure my privacy. I installed Netguard and blocked all apps I do not use. And I deactivated a lot of google settings. It is a really interesting topic and there are a lot of things to learn I am excited to be on that way now
@@melany63 Update: I bought a used Google Pixel 3 XL in a good condition for 150€. I flashed GraphenOS on it, I can't Believe that I Managed to Do that xD I willl give the Honor 20 pro to my mum
i hate apps i hate notifications i dont understand why apps exist i just want to log in to websites and log out if i want to
i have no way to check whether the things you say here are true but you seem to be informative, which i appreciate
Wifi triangulation is definitely NOT of any use in turn by turn navigation. Considering the average router can reach 25-50 feet line of sight to a phone, routers inside homes and stores simply cannot reach a typical phone driving past on the roads.
Very interessting and what do you think about Sailfish OS ? and Havoc OS ?
@@Adkatka but is havoc save?
Would a Faraday bag help with the wifi triangulation issue?
The most important and easiest thing you can do is reduce the services you use in the first place. I use Firefox browser with Ecosia search (it's totally convenient and user-friendly), soon will ditch Gmail and Google photos, never use google location services for anything, and restrict permissions.
Replacing Google services framework with MicroG will be the next step.
I definitely have a wide experience using microG. It is definitely a night and day difference when it comes to battery life - I get a longer battery runtime with microG than Google Mobile Services. I do see slightly better overall performance, but I wouldn't comment much on that since it depends on the app in question. I remembered my phone running decently well until I installed WeChat. Let's just say that it really took a toll on the phone's overall performance really hard.
Why should I trust other companies more than Google? Just becoz they're not as big as GG? It's insane with these blind GG hatred. Everybody'sin the business for making money, even the open-source community work could be doubtful, left alone these private companies or entities other than Google. GG has been providing the most convenient free apps to help mid and low income workers, while the filthy rich are sitting idlly being paranoid that they're tracked. You better off make your own librabries, services, apis, and servers, and secure your own private internet if you want guaranteed safety. If not, there's no such guarantee, such that Ecosia, duckduck go engines, or Firefox..browsers are more trustable than GG. These are just nonsense hype. I rather have ONLY google track me than having a bunch of small/uncontrollable companies do it. 1 to lookout for is much better than 100s.
Great vid. Thankyou for taking the time to make
Nice video, but i think you should explain that Lineage OS is an Android custom rom so in the end its still android in the base code.
Thank you for the content.. can you explain the Exacly different between this and e/os ... would you Recommend e/os ? And can you Tell something about the Fairphone which include e/ os
Can you please make an updated video on this? I have been told that LineageOS is "just" AOSP". It's imho still better than the even more invasive and restrictive vendor-branded versions of most Androids, and it tends to extend the life span of a phone, too, but other than that, I'm not so sure.
It's still pretty good and I'm still using it and recommending it
honestly, i'm excited of how are we walking on the edge of privacy nowadays. i would really like to move from stock rom to a custom. but my stock samsung 21 has no custom working os alternatives.the only way to get rid of google is by disabling it via adb. same as samsung apps. but there is no good guide of what apps exactly are safe to disable.
I am a sysadmin and this guy is spot on try to share the video to educate more ppl ... again NEVER PUT ANY important info data on your mobile devices if u have no choice and need to have a mobile payment method use a different small credit card with a limit of like 500$ on it etc try to seperate your real bank accounts and credit card from the mobile device
Do you have any tips for carrying secure information or accessing them?
I love your videos man, am all about privacy and security although I don’t have anything to hide but I think that the more they know the more they can manipulate you. What do you think about the one plus open 2 device? I really like that phone and am trying to transition to all linux with lineage os even linux for gaming etc plus my own nextcloud. What is your opinion on all that?
First time seeing one of your videos. Extremely impressed by the way you broke down your message in a logical step by step manner that made it easy to understand and come to the conclusions drawn. I did not know GOOGLE had designed so many features designed to track and record various characteristics of people! A couple of questions tho... I realized when I was a young adolescent that if I wrapped my phone on aluminum foil and tried calling it, it would not ring, even if I was mere feet away from it. Would blocking its ability to recieve and send signals like so also be efficient against the threats mentioned? Also, if one was to use a different OS and use apps outside of the play store, do you mean you can go to websites like apk pure and download apps from there that are found on the play store (whether created by Google or not.)
You mention wifi triangulation {I believe that's what you referred to it as}... If you turned off the wifi, would it still be able to? Many phones these days have the option of spoofing the MAC address, does this solve the problem of them using your MAC address? You mention kill switches... Do certain OSes not have the ability to use the software to turn the hardware off? And last but not least, I've been considering rooting my phone for quite some time now and recently purchased an Umidigi A11 Pro Max. It seems very vanilla and very easy to root and flash... Is this phone capable of running Ubuntu touch? If not can you provide me with a few examples? Excellent presentation! Subscribing right off the batt!
Covering it with aluminum foil would block any signal, so basically yes, it's the most effective way by far, if you don't have a Linux phone. This is also shown in one of the Terminator movies where Sara Connor covers her phone with a bag of potato chips (which is made of aluminum) so she doesn't get tracked.
Librem5 isn't immune to firmware eavesdropping because there are still blobs in the firmware
There's no need for blobs. Basebands have backdoors period. So the only consolation is that you can switch it off on the lIbrem 5 and it doesn't share main memory bus
And for me is expensive fot that hardware.
What about just setting up a firewall on your device?
You need to put the video speed to 1.5 to listen him speak in normal speed 😂
You are a good fella
1.25 is pretty good actually
I have "Enhancer for RUclips" set the playback speed to 2.0x by default, that's the slowest I listen to anything.
1.25 feels more natural
@@glenn7095 thanks
Thanks Rob! That was educational.
What about a good voice assistant, like a replacement of "hey Google what is my next turn" or "hey Google how far away is the next rest area" ... driving an 80 thousand pound weapon of mass destruction... I don't look at my phone when I drive, and i use voice assistant alot ..
And what are my options with the Samsung Note ten plus 5G?
What is the difference between network scanning and wifi triangulation?
Watch Mental Outlaw's video about using a feature phone for privacy!
use pc install android os or emulator bcoz pc dont have gps hardware?
I'm delighted that I found your tutorial. What a wake up call on securing our phones. Thank You !!!
So, which OS would be the best to cover all four categorys mentioned and explained, as much as possible, and is there such OS at all possible?
@6:38 can you give the actual spelling of the name of the virtual machines you've mentioned sir? I would like to know more about these?
Great video, but 5:25 was a stretch and not a very good test in my opinion. You may be right, but I don't like the method, it's not a direct measurement.
I am "always at home", too. I wonder what you would do with the knowledge of a general security threat: the almost unknown RSA flaw, which makes security completely transparent to a few "agents", namely NSA, CCP and very few other.
Man this pisses me off!
Just went to lineage, but Im fitting to leave smart phones all together.
i like your precise straight to the point approach ,easy for everybody to understand explanations without delving to deep into the technical mumble jumble .
I dont know if u will even read this, but to the mac adress part, on the PC it obviously makes sense to spoof it since on PC we have root access anyways but what bout phones? Cuz i know rooting opens backdoors but in case i wanna stay safe from getting identified by my MAC? What brings more risk? Leaking my MAC or rooting?
Is there still wifi triangulation if the phone is already connected to wifi?
Do banking apps works in lineage OS?
Ty learned a ton and subbed up
Great video. Thank you. Subscribed.
Until the general public has more options of OS and hardware options with kill switches and replaceable / fixable parts, we will not have a realistic choice. Most people do not have the knowledge of how to install a new OS onto their device. Right now, you have to have at least knowledge of the command line and some coding knowledge to be able to do what Rob is suggesting here. As it stands, the current market (iOS and Android) are the only two realistic choices. Both use 3rd party companies that scan your data and monitor your devices. It is simply unrealistic to expect the general public to understand this without the existence of several other OS options to choose from. A monopoly is an understaement.
I'm a seasoned seamstress by hobby, and an infosec consultant by trade. I'm thinking long and hard about a line of faraday cellphone cases, backpacks, and handbags. Thoughts? Kill it right at the physical layer?
You might want to consider using CalyxOS at least on the Pixel cell phones you sell.
in terms of wifi triangulation: What if you use internet via a 4G hotspot and take that everywhere with you? I know it's a bit inconvenient but it is another layer to go though to find your real location. It will be the 4G signal that moves around then, not the wifi signal
It may be good disinformation. I will sell a Pinehone as an LTE hotspot when the battery life is better
@@robbraxmantech Thank you for the reply. I asked that because I carry 2 phones and use one as a hotspot
i always used , magisk in combination with Xprivacy ( an app, where you can set for every other apps even the google apps , what they may and may not know. network, location, microphone, analytices, and so on ) i hopt his makes me a bit more secure and private. SInce hell broke lose ( furter stripping of our privacy because of a 'virus' ) i stepped back to a Nokia flipphone that is 10 years old, or even older.. :)
thank you for the very informative video
The pine phone has kill switches and is great privacy phone 149.00 it isn't out yet but coming soon might sell my phone and get that.
I really enjoyed watching your video, thank you very much for all this information, thank you
Lineage OS has the options fake Geolocation and hide IP address like e/OS? I don't use any google app in my android phone.
I'm a little confused after this video. In lineage os's website there is no rom without gapps as i understood. then i thought what about aosp. i found 2 options. aospextended and sony's aosp. I still don't they coming with or without gapps sametime with these 4 threats. can you do a video about this or complete clear solution without these threats? thanks from now & sorry for my bad English : )
Of course there's LineageOS without GAPPS.
Rob Braxman Tech hmm what about /e/ ? did you try that?
Hey, I attended a workshop about online self defense by Digital Courage, a German Data Protection NGO, a couple of weeks ago. They told us about Lineage OS which is how I found your great channel. While my phone is supported by the system my tablet is not. Neither it is supported by Ubuntu touch. Are there ways of running lineage os or ubuntu touch on a Samsung Galaxy Tab A?
Greetings from Germany (=
Usually a Tablet has no cell service so then the answer is just to use it on a VPN network or install a VPN on it. And if it has cell capability, remove the SIM card
@@robbraxmantech okay, good to know. thanks a lot
12:30 I am running AOSP 6.0 Marshmallow (with Google play services disabled, and thereby, all GAapps uninstalled). @ROB please tell me if Google telemetry still applies on me!! (most apps show the notification that this app won't work without Google Play Services but they work nonetheless)!!
Mostly you're fine. But each individual app even if not from the play store could be using some Google API like Firebase. Basically the same advice as LineageOS applies to any base AOSP
Google used to say Do no evil... I guess they meant that for everyone else.
gps is accurate to 6 inches but by law that accuracy can not be released to civilians so the government or those approved by them can find you unless inside
correct
No its not.
in a nutshell, there's no escape unless you simply don't use a phone. well we got on well in the 80s and 90s without fancy smart phones, can do just that these days. if you wanna game, use nox or bluestacks or just use a tablet and keep it at home. if you need to call, get a 1998 sprint flip phone?
iam not an expert, but i can turn of wifi location services on my stock xperia android phone.
Your voice is full of melody.
Good diction!
Thank you for the sanity (and thoroughness) around this! Just when I need it! TY! I'll come find you on LBRY. Cheers!
What are your thoughts on grapheneOS? Which was recommended by Edward Snowden.
I have the same question. I have not been able to find the answer anywhere.