Garden Fence (Part 3.1): Testing New Fasteners to Replace Staples
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- Unfortunately, the T50 staples we used to fasten our fencing onto our posts have just not held up as well as we'd hoped they would. So in this video, we'll0 test and rank the best replacements.
Table of Contents:
0:00 - Introduction
1:20 - The problem with T50 staples
4:35 - Alternatives to T50 staples
7:11 - Testing alternative fasteners
10:27 - Ranking the new fasteners
15:57 - Conclusion
18:23 - Bonus information
Related videos:
Garden Fence (Part 1): Garden Layout and Installing Natural Fence Posts without Cement
• Garden Fence (Part 2):...
Garden Fence (Part 2): Keeping out small digging animals AND rhizomatous grass
• Garden Fence (Part 2):...
Garden Fence (Part 3): Keeping out Deer and other large animals
• Garden Fence (Part 3):...
I've used most of these methods. Screws has been hands down the winner. Zip ties and wires degrade until they break, neither lasting more than a year or so. Staples work, but are far more irritating to install, and ... Not covered here ... Screws can be easily removed to take down fencing, Staples can't. Relevant for reconfiguring, replacing damaged fencing, etc...
I also have opted to alternate screws top and bottom on the holding wire (typically welded wire or woven wire), holding it all up from climbers and down from goats/sheep trying to push it up from below.
That's SUCH a great point about the screws being easily removed / reconfigured!! I don't think we'll need that ability with our fence, but for many others, that could be a huge advantage. Thanks!
@@BackToReality Fence wire is cheaper then what ever that stuff is and I found zip ties much cheaper. Do a you tube search for "10 Creative Ideas to Reuse Plastic Bottles / Bottle Cutter 2.0" that is the method that I would use as its virtually free an far stronger.
Love the approach and yes, knowing what doesn’t work is helpful - like the basis of any proper inquiry, so-called failure is good information.
Fantastic video - greeting from another Ontario Canuck - you do us proud! 🇨🇦
I love the flood of information on this channel. I don’t always retain it in one go but find all your videos as amazing references when the time comes. Thank you for sharing. Even the dead ends.
Thanks so much! I really appreciate that, and am so glad that you find it helpful!
Call it bias, but I would go with the fencing staples every time (I've always called them U-nails because that's what grandad called them). There are fences I helped put up as a kid using them that are still keeping cows where they need to be to this day. And I'm closer to 40 now than I care to admit.
As an added bonus of assembling something using a hammer, you get to say "So I finished smashing that fence together this weekend".
Lol, you've convinced me! :)
For our fencing to enclose out large property we used round pressure treated posts and livestock fencing. To attach the fence to the posts we used fencing staples and they have held up for 10 years with none coming away from the posts or wearing through the livestock mesh. Don’t use hardware cloth, it’s useless. The wood strips look horrible and doesn’t look all that good. Zip ties will wear from sun exposure rather quickly.
Well, fencing and fasteners are the least of my worries. My husband is a Carpenter and has the compressor and guns and I chose a much thicker fencing. Now if I could just manage the bugs and the weeds! Good luck and as always, thank you for the wonderful videos!
Yeah, I hear ya. We're still dealing with our mortal enemy: Quackgrass
If you have a compressor, a pneumatic stapler works really well, and is super fast. I would not use zip ties outside. The sun degrades them after a couple years, and they break.
Good point! I considered using a pneumatic staple, but thought that may count as "specialized equipment". Either way, it's a great idea, and would have been both quicker and more fun! :)
I absolutely love how you "overcomplicate" things to share with us! This is the kind of thing I would probably spend a lot of time obsessing about, and you detailed review just saves me an absurd amount of time!
In the perfect world you (or someone else) would evaluate all those things as thoroughly as you did here, and then the amount of overthinking I do in my daily life would drop by, like, half!
I love this. At first I was curious how fence fasteners could really be a 25minute video. But it was so worth it. Thank you! And that bonus information at the end is gold!
Thanks Carrie, I'm really glad you found it interesting! :)
If you use wire to secure the fence to the posts, twisting the end with a pair of pliers instead of your fingers gives you the ability to twist it from the end towards the post, thus tightening the wire
You're absolutely right. I should have used pliers, instead of my fingers. Thanks!
Hi there. Great to see another fence video :D Always happy to hear from you and your adventures in the garden :)
Thanks Blackhuf! I appreciate that :)
Nice video.
I'm ready for part 4.0 when you are.
It's an electrified strand, isn't it? Blink twice if I'm right.
lol
This is my favorite RUclips channel. I love how transparent and comprehensive the information comes.
I love this video, super helpful when I build out my next fence. you guys are awesome and I appreciate your time in making this information available to us
Nice approach to this problem solving, and thank you for telling that those scores should maybe, and actually, be pondered in a way, giving that some factors are more important than others.
To me that would be very simple to chose: strapping all along. As the son (and also grandson and nephew) of a blacksmith, the times I saw them make anything similar to this, that was the way to go. Mind you, most of the wired fencing I saw them make was with wired mesh, so it required welding and therefore it's a completely different animal, but when it came to some kind of chicken wire that required some structure, this was the way to go.
Of course, that required (and it also was my first thought until you mentioned wood) something to strap the wire, and they would use some iron rod, usually the kind you use in construction sites. You just sandwich the chicken wire between the wooden post and the iron rod and that's it. The problem may be how to place the iron rod in place. As they would make it all out of metal, they would weld it in place (top and bottom and maybe a few tacks along the way) but this is not the way to do it here, obviously. So that would need a way to hold it in place, also top and bottom and maybe one to three points in the middle. But given that the posts might not be (and certainly not as time goes by) completely straight, that would render impossible what I think it's the main advantage of this method: holding the chicken wire from top to bottom and therefore distributing the pulling from the wind/animals more or less in an uniform mannter.
So, yes, here wooden strapping would be the way to go for me. Yes, wood is kind of expensive for this use but you might as well use reclaimed wood from pallets or whatever. It doesn't need to be a whole piece top to bottom, you may have several pieces in line. And yes, pallet wood is wider than you need (usually) and that would require you to strip them in half but... well.
Why would I choose this over any other? well, because, as I mentioned, this distributes the strengh all along the wood and all the nails/screws/whatever you may use, thus reducing the chances to having a "first one" to go and then another, and then another.
The problem I find with staples and screws is that, as wind (and animals) does its job, it creates a motion in the wire that, with time, will cause the chicken wire to break, no matter how strong the staple or screw. Distributing this all along the height of the post will make it last longer, also because it will rubbing against wood, which is softer than the metal, obviously, of both staples and screws (with or without washers).
And as for zip ties, in my experience, well, those are larger than the ones I use to tie my vineyard, but after one season, maybe after two, they still hold in there nice against wind, but I don't need too much strength in order to break them apart just by pulling the vine branch compared to a new one. Again, yours are kind of three times wider than what I use, but even if they're supposed to be UV resistant, they're still out there "in the wild", there's heat, there's cold (and you live in a place where it snows, not like me) and that will end up making that plastic brittle. Ah, and some animals may even chew on it.
So, that's my two cents on the subject, and therefore completely subjective.
Than you!
Thanks for such a thoughtful and detailed comment!
@@BackToReality you may say it's boring as well 😁
Nah, thank you. If I think I can add my experience, well, you asked for it 😇
Love your videos! Keep up the great work! 🌿💕
I will typically use the longest T-50 staples and give them a whack with a hammer to fully seat them. If I'm stapling something that I'm worried about the staple working its way through, I use little discs or squares of high mil plastic sheeting. Hold the 1x1" square in place and drive the staple through it. Whack it with a hammer and it generally lasts forever.
These are great tips, thanks!
You are really underselling the normal wire. Its being used in a lot of outdoor applications when animals are involved. Try fastening it like you did, but after 2 or 3 twists use the needle nose plier or bigger head tool (non english here... toolnames are hard) grab the wire and twist the 'knot' you just created. It will create more twists towards the fence post, creating a more tight fit. Also if you use the curve from the wire, you should be able to wrap the wire around the post really quickly.
The other used tactics look great too, but I'll stick with the wire for now. Its very cheap, readily available and in most cases I have it on hand when working on the electric fencing.
I think you're absolutely right. I should have used pliers to twist the wire, rather than using my fingers. That would have negated several of my complaints about that method, and potentially allowed it to rank much better.
Thanks for the deep dive.
You're welcome! I'm glad you liked it :)
LOVE the amount of effort and thought you put into your videos. Keep up the great work!
If you get yourself some proper fencing pliers (maybe 20 USD, Irwin makes a good pair) they have lots of handy features, including holding the fencing staples solid for setting them. Also they make wire twisting (and getting it super tight) easy.
Excellent as always.
I just love how thoughtful your videos are! Thank you so much!😊
Thanks Syl :)
The bonus part I found very interesting. I actually learn something there are many different staples.
Thank you so much for documenting and sharing this project. Hope it will go well when we try it :)
I liked the tests you did in the bonus. They were very interesting and helped me see just how good of a job each fastener would do.
Thanks.
P.S. Wasn't there supposed to be a part 4 to this series (and 3.1 doesn't count as part 4)?
Thanks Kat, I'm really glad those tests were helpful!
And you're absolutely right. We'll still be posting the official Part 4 of this series - hopefully early this summer. :)
@@BackToReality - When will Part 4 be posted? What is your solution for the Climbing animals? Thanks!
@@BackToReality Also waiting for part 4. Did you add chicken wire ontop for birds and climbers?
Thanks for these videos!! I’m building my first ever fence for my first ever garden and I really have enjoyed and found these videos useful! I love esp the dirt packing method to stabilize the posts. Since this might not be our forever home/garden it would save me lots of money doing it this way!!! I think I’m gonna go with the fence staples just to cut down on cost/effort but we’ll see. Great videos and thank you from a new subscriber!! :) ❤
I found this, like your other videos, very interesting. thanks for sharing
I did find the bonus information helpful. Thank you.
We've got to build a fence for my mom's garden. We'll be referring back to your "fence series" when the time comes. She's got some adolescent pine trees out in the field that I think we could use as the posts.
I love details!= A+
The wood strapping might be more cost affordable if you bought a sheet of plywood & make your own straps to the width that works for your posts. Just a suggestion. We've always use the hammer in staples & buy them by the pound in the US & always have a few extras hiding in bags around the shop..... lol... We always loose them & just buy more.
One day we might get smart & make a bin for all the nuts & bolts hanging around but I don't think after 50 years we're going to change our system.... lol....
Good luck, love your videos, be safe, & God bless,
Chris from Missouri
Very cool!
Nice toque. You do excellent graphics. Great video.
Thanks! Paula made it for me, and I wore it pretty much every day this past winter / early spring :)
I'm really glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for commenting!
I think the lath screw are going to run into a different problem than what you've experienced so far in that the fence may work itself out from behind the head of the screw given how small it is. The wood will expand and contract through the season and that could ultimately make just enough room for the chicken wire to work itself out.
Good point! The slightly smaller head of the lath screw (in comparison to the washer) might be just enough to allow for this slippage of the chicken wire. We'll keep an eye on that and report back if we notice any examples of it. Thanks!
@@BackToReality Surface area shouldn't really matter but how much the wood may shrink. If the wood really shrinks then both don't stand much of a chance. The question is wether this actually happens (I doubt it) and perhaps tightening in the summer once or more often might be enough.
@@christopherstein2024
It's both expansion and contraction that will cause issues. Wood swells when wet, and shrinks when dry. Eventually the holes in the post themselves could become looser due to this, especially with old wood that is exposed to the elements. Repeatedly being required to tighten the screws also seems like extra work that could be avoided using different fasteners.
I don't understand why you think surface area doesn't matter when ultimately this would be a friction based solution. Less area to grip would mean less holding force/ resistance to movement.
Sorry if this cane across as rude, that wasn't the intent, it just came out like that.
Maybe should consider loop ties. Easy to put on, with special tool, instead of pliers, and it’s cheap. As the wood posts shrinks, you can easily tighten these to the post again. Nothing last forever! So should consider what is easier to fix down the road.
Can’t wait to see your end result and decision!
This was awesome video very cool info I loved it awesome job 🛠️🇨🇦🛠️🇺🇦
Thanks BADGE, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
You’ve convinced me. Always go with heavier wire and the good ole hit-em-with-a-hammer fencing staples like I’ve always used successfully. LOL
Enjoyed the video. And just think, you can always do a 2.0 version with totally different types of fasteners. :)
Hey Arthur, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I really felt like the fencing staples would be overkill for this type of fencing. I knew that they were the go-to for thicker wire, but chicken wire? Either way, clearly, I was totally mistaken. :)
Considering the time I already put into this video, I can't imagine making a second version.... but then again, you never know ;)
Zip ties are a decent short term option, but at least in the southern US, only last a year or two before they break down due to weathering.
I have used metal zip ties to repair a cyclone fence gate that my dog tore up (VERY determined Labrador!). In place for several years, still holding up (wet western Oregon), though the dog is gone several years now. Would be an easy fix if they were long enough to go around your posts. Plastic zip ties would become brittle from sun oxidation and cold.
I've built several goat runs using T-post and welded wire along the way and 4x4 lumber for the door frames... One bent nail at the top and one at the bottom and then I attached 2x2s using deck screws... Holding nice in spite of the goats rubbing their backs against it! Chicken tractor has slats on the outher edges and fencing staples on inside supports... Worked fine for me...
BTW.... GREAT job with your videos!
Thanks Dieter! I appreciate the info AND the compliment ! :)
Thank you for all the info provided as I eventually have to build a fence at 65 yo. I am very interested in your 4th video. Is it out yet?
Do you have a feeling when you can make the final video on fence where you would show how to protect garden from squirrels and raccoons? I need it desperately 😇 I dream about building my fence and preparing beds this year for the spring🙏🙏🙏
The piece of wood could be held in place with construction nails instead of screws which should help with splitting. There are also far less expensive options for thin strips of wood, just need to shop around to see what is available in your area.
I totally agree that there are cheaper options to the 1x2s. For example, I considered ripping 2x4s into thin strips as a cheaper option for the 1x2s. But unfortunately, (here in Ontario Canada, at least) a plain untreated 2x4 still costs about $6.98. So if I were to rip it into 4 strips, they would still be $1.74 each - cheaper, but still expensive (plus that would require a table saw, which not everyone has). Either way, using some sort of wooden strips is quite a bit more expensive than I'd like, unless you can find wood for free (or nearly free).
I think the strapping is the best option, too bad wood is so expensive.
Also I was going to mention that the zip ties will degrade and break. In my experience, even the UV resistant ones.
I‘m no expert in chemistry but as far as I know the galvanised stapel reacts with the less precious metal of the fence leading to an much faster oxidation of that metal. Therefor the fence has often rusted through at the contact points.
By using not galvanised Stapels you could at least have solved that Problem.
Interesting... So if I understand this right, galvanization helps the metal it's applied to (the staple, in this case) but is detrimental to any other metal that it comes in contact with? And so therefore, galvanization is really only a benefit for standalone items?
I have used wire strips to hold a garden fence posts. The u staples are tough to put on and last best.
hair looking awesome. very jelly
Thanks! ;)
you look great!!!! I would love to see what your diet looks like and workout program if you have any cheers
Thanks WARFARE! I really appreciate that :)
I don't really have a specific plan or program. Just eating less and moving more :)
Be sure to use zipties that are outdoors-rated (i.e. they're resistant to UV-induced degradation); if they are, it will clearly state so on its packaging.
Is the wood pressure treated? If so, you need to use fasteners able to withstand PT lumber.
Looks like others said it but I'll still comment- zip ties dry out and snap after a season or 2. And your environment sounds harsher than where I am.
Another thing to consider that is always forgotten: ability to easily uninstall. Cause you never know what's in store for the future. Screws might win that.
Instead of buying 1x2, you can also try and sweet talk them into giving you a discount on warped 2x4 and cutting it down on a tablesaw. Which, of course, only works if you have one.
I'm certainly not above sweet talking my way into a discount, so this sounds like a great idea! :)
Good tip!
I searched but couldn't find part 4
Tie wraps cut through easy in wind, as UV makes it brittle.
Good to know! Thanks!
Did you ever do video #4 for those pesky climbers…? Thanks
Staples and screws will loosen and fall out in a year or 2 do to weathering on the post they also open the post up to bugs and rot each additional hole is a decay point. the 1x2s will rot pretty fast do to the holes plus rough. Sawn surface is just to open to weather so unless you are using old growth cedar they will fail probably in a year . The plastic zip ties won't last more that a year or 2 . because they are uv RESISTANT not proof.
Farmers have faced fencing has always been a ongoing maintenance issue for fence owners since fencing was invented.
The term riding fence was made up for western movies.
Personally I am curious about how black uv resistant zip ties would fair.
But for post life therefore over all fence life I'd use wire or zip ties and repair as needed .
You make some really great points here. I hadn't (at all) considered the effects that the fasteners might have on the posts themselves. I'll have to watch out for signs of premature decay from the screws, etc. Thanks for commenting!
Strapping is free, if you use pallet wood.
Excellent point! It's a bit more work to gather and dismantle them. But at these lumber prices, it's totally worth it!
😎👍✌️🖖👌🤓
O my
why not nail a flat slat of wood over the fencing?
Hey Connie, do you mean similar to the wooden strapping option, but with nails instead of screws?
Where’s part 4? 😊
Still working on it :)
We'll hopefully be posting the 4th part this spring.
@@BackToReality look forward to it!
Zip ties will eventually weaken from the sun and become very brittle.
Zip ties ?
Do you have a facebook page?
Even the so called UV resistant plastic ties will last 2 years at most.
Good to know! And as someone else mentioned, they're just UV "resistant" rather than UV "proof". Sigh, nothing lasts forever I guess.
20 bucks on the lath screws
Soooo just use "Fencing Staples", like the name suggests, got it. LOL
I really think your problem is in wire,she is thin,and wind is gonna tearing her from post...
no offense, the video was fun, but this is sort of insane. If you had 1000 times the amount of fencing all of the thought and energy you put into this would be justified. It would be sort of like if I made a 20 minute video on which brand of oatmeal I should eat for breakfast Wednesday morning. You also didn't consider that you can cut a single piece of wood strapping into enough 1x1 squares to service a very large number of screws. Essentially wood washers at that point.
First of all, your breakfast analogy is spot on. Point taken! lol
My hope was just to spend more time than most people could afford / would be willing to, in order to try out a number of different options. That way, anyone else who was in my situation could make a better informed decision, without having to go to all the trouble. I love the idea of the "wood washers". I had considered using shorter pieces of wood (though, not 1x1 squares) but at that point, the video was already over 20 min long... lol. If I were to do this again, I'd give the small squares a shot. Thanks!
Staples with zip ties
Whoops, I had accidentally left another reply here earlier today, but it was intended for a different comment. Sorry about that :)
Do you mean the fencing staples or the original T50 staples, along with the zip ties?
Learning is making mistakes.
I really appreciate that perspective. And based on that.... I must be learning A LOT! :)
I think both your fencing is to flimsy and your fasteners are not very robust.
All in all I think you should go with tried a true fence staples.
Thanks Kevin. What type of fencing would you suggest instead? We originally chose the chicken wire because it's commonly used for this light-duty purpose, but also because it was relatively affordable. I'd love to use something more durable, as long as it doesn't come with a huge increase in cost.
@@BackToReality we'll thinking about it I suppose as long as the wire is stabilized it probably won't get worn through. Welded wire would probably be too expensive.
just use fencing staples and never nail right in !!!!!!!!!
Would this help along America’s southern border?
You really struggle with the scientific method dont you. You say you will try a method, then before you even test it you modify it and dont get good info. You do this all the time. I too have terrible ADHD, I recognize it. The wire didnt get tested properly did it, cause its lathe screws youre testing now not wire. Have you considered that a looser wrap in the wire may prevent wear from wind because the thin chicken wire isnt trapped and pivoting back and forth eventually snapping but allowed to move a little? Just my rant, thanks for listening.
Hey Michael, Quick clarification: I wasn't actually including the lath screw as part of the wire wrap, in the comparison. At that point, I was just trying things out, and as I mentioned, it immediately defeated the purpose of the wire. That said, I'm certainly no scientist, and I may very well have ADHD. So, I guess what I'm saying is... I agree. ;) lol