If Tesla didn't obviscate incident details I imagine they would be more open.
8 дней назад+1
Exactly. They removed several working features from the Tesla Autopilot 4-5 years ago which I was using every day without any issues and now they request to prove that these features do work in real life. I would just kick UNECE ADAS from being responsible for any traffic regulations in the EU. They failed finally at this point, are blocking technology progress and this costs lives every day on EU streets.
i do not want to be part of an fsd beta test without lidar and radar that i have not agreed to. as soon as public roads are used, other people are also in danger.
@@alexkoake2422 The whole point is that an experienced driver supervise the system during the testing period, so that it can be released to public only after it has been proven safe by the authorities.
@@mitchellston there is a big difference between wanting to have FSD on your car and actually being a test driver. It’s a real job and a lot of boring diligent testing.
Thanks for the comprehensive update Steven. Pretty disappointing. At this rate supervised will not be released until after unsupervised fully autonomous. Sadly, Europe has been and is regulating itself into oblivion
Some of the questions are very sensible, if you're living in 2019. 2019 is when the system-initiated manoeuvres were first released, and UNECE decided to regulate them. It is astonishing that it took so long for them to ask these questions, now that we're on the verge of Unsupervised. Huge face-palm. They'll never make Supervised FSD possible, and it's sickening that lives could be saved but the technology is being locked away by these ********** :(
I think Tesla would have no problem getting ‘test drivers’ to prove the system safety and answer the questions with real data. I would sign up in the UK tomorrow!
@@hankkingsley9183That’s what crash test dummies are for… Human testers are not going to be trying to have an accident, they would be supervising the system during “normal” everyday driving. Don’t insult their intelligence or underestimate their desire for their own safety.
@@MartinKli56 No, just no. Get over the conspiracy already. Industry all want to move forward. Germany is ahead with L3 and even L4 regulations. It’s UK and Sweden that act up
One problem I've seen in the USA is people saying "Autopilot" implies an unsupervised system. I've even heard this from the outgoing US Secretary of Transportation. Truly ironic, since an autopilot on boats and aircraft (where the name comes from) are always supervised systems. "Auto" doesn't mean unsupervised...otherwise we can't use the term "automobile" to begin with!
Yes, people should read into what they are buying. If you think the car is something it is not, then it is not Tesla’s fault. But the UNECE wants to protect stupid people against themselves 🤷♂️
Forcing systems to follow numbers and patterns in non-numeric and patterned environments is just such a strange decision. How many times have these regulated systems almost caused an accident during my rides because they behaved in a way one would not allow a car to behave in fully human controlled traffic.
This is interesting to follow right now. But it won't be long before looking back at the controversy around FSD will be like looking back at the controversy around automatic elevators (and if your response is "there used to be a controversy around automatic elevators?" that's exactly my point!)
There is a clear need for a reorganization of these so-called regulators. Their proposed safety measures often create more danger than they mitigate. For example, abrupt cancellations during lane changes-triggered by delays of more than 30 seconds-can leave the vehicle between two lanes at high speeds. This sudden intervention, accompanied by a loud alert and a forceful takeover of the wheel, can cause drivers to feel like they've lost control, posing a significant safety risk. Many of these regulations, in my experience, feel poorly integrated and counterintuitive. For instance, the system disengaging during highway curves due to excessive force can lead to dangerous situations. These measures don’t improve safety; instead, they add unnecessary complications. As a result, I only use such features 10% of the time, typically on straight highways with no traffic, as they are otherwise unreliable. Additionally, requiring multiple blinks or actions to initiate control within a restrictive 30-second window is inefficient and impractical. A more thoughtful and effective approach is urgently needed.
Well, yes and no. Sure, sometimes the system just gives up, be it because of a bug or because of the "g-force"-limit. BUT, it is a repeatable behaviour, you know the limits so you could actually act accordingly. With an "autonomous" system as Teslas it gets more "complicated". You can't really foresee the next mistake so it might surprise you even more than it did before. But then again, it is Teslas job to work according to UNECE regulations and if they kept their promises like over half a decade ago we wouldt have this conversation in the first place. And even now they could apply for a special permit but that takes time, cost money and resources and Tesla actually would have to be very transparent which we know from the US they dont want to be and with Trump they hope they can actually change the rules over there so that they dont have to report on accidents etc! Crazy! I wonder why that is ;) Tesla never really cared about its customers in other countries. They keep promoting their system even thought it doesnt actually fulfill those promises, yet people still buy them. Why should Tesla care about changing anything here if people are still dum* enough fall for their promises and just gift Tesla the money. TBH I would do it like Elon, milk those idiot* and keep blaming the UNECE, win win^^
As a Finnish driver license holder I was able to drive in US with it. Means Tesla should be able to just provide US safety data to UNECE. US has a variety of different road settings in each state, making it comparable with a lot of UNECE bound countries.
It sounds like they’ve realised the year they’re prepared to wait for industry to gather data is long enough for industry to propose taking over ADAS altogether at least.
This is actually very exciting for me to see, as it seems that there is a fundamental shift in reasoning. Reading between the lines, it seems that they are internally aware that their rigid, bottom up, hard coded definitions and defined limits approach is broken and unrealistic, especially in a world where a top down, neutral learning based approach with nothing hard coded, has taken over and proven itself more capable than rigid, robotic models. My interpretation of the last slides specifically offering for the industry to create a new task force, is in fact an admission that they are prepared to throw up their hands and let the industry convince them that a different approach could be safer. I also agree completely that the only way to resolve their request for real world data on European roads is to allow a controlled beta group of regular drivers (as well as professional testers) to use a supervised self driving mode on European roads to allow the data to be gathered. I would also be happy to sign a NDA in order to join the early beta testing in Europe (Italy in my case).
This is about regulations. Tesla has no control over what policies countries adopt. I'm guessing it will be feature complete by the end of this year, but that prediction is only about the cars ability to drive itself without the driver paying attention. I have no idea how long it will be before it's legal to drive without paying attention.
This is crazy in the context of FSD. The regulations are being updated to reflect where we've been rather than where we are going. FSD means NO driver involvement is required. If it's ONLY for an introductory proving period, per system, that makes more sense.
@@trevor.yardley however, no car manufacturer us even close to true FSD. Tesla’s system is still just a L2 driver assist, no matter how good it appears to be. As long as Tesla is not taking full responsibility for the system, and as long as the laws are not adjusted for L3+, it remains a L2 system
In Australia, the laws are currently being amended such that each entity such as Tesla must take full responsibility for the system's continued safe operation. Insurance companies may need to change also, as I doubt that companies like Tesla will wish to fully underwrite all aspects of a vehicle's insurance needs.
Huge respect Steven for keeping us informed over so many years. Oh man, all your test drive videos many years ago, and still no progress. But, as you said, they now pushed the ball to the OEMs, maybe that‘s the chance now to really get something to happen.
I still can't believe that they are asking for evidence of losing driving skills at 9:28. What do they think happens when people just decide to *NOT DRIVE*? This is something that's been happening forever, and is completely independent of self-driving technology. I can't wrap my head around that question, it makes no sense at all.
I also believe that some pressure from other side of the Atlantic will be needed . Because manly Europe is on a crossroads and needs to choose from whom they will use technology. The choice is USA or China. Europe died in rockets, in tech and is dying in auto industry and many more. This whole regulation stuff is like kicking around when others want to save you or help. So childish . And FSD and autonomy saves lives, that is already proven.
@@6776823 maybe not, if Tesla has all the data, they could act quickly. But ADAS has been asking for data for several months now. I wonder if Tesla is even reacting 🧐
@@StevenPeeters did you see Elon musk’s comment about FSD in Europe in the Q4 call yesterday. He said ”Like Europe really has, for example, Europe is a layer cake of regulations of bureaucracy, which that really needs to be addressed. This is a like America innovates, Europe regulates. So, guys, there's too many reps in the field. For example, for us, just to release unsupervised full self-driving in Europe, even though it works really well, we have to go through a mountain of paperwork with the Netherlands, which is our primary regulatory authority. Then the Netherlands presents us to the EU in, I think, May. And there's like this EU country committee. We expect it to be approved at that time. There's nothing we can do to make that may happen sooner. In fact, nobody seems to do -- but I guess all the countries would have to somehow vote in some way to have it happen sooner than May. Otherwise, it wouldn't happen sooner than May. So, the is unsupervised FSD a lot in Europe or like May next year, maybe? I don't know. you find out when game. Sometimes it's a 12-month cadence, sometimes it's six-month cadence.” Which makes me think that he has very little focus on the FSD implementation in Europe… Super happy about you channel btw, clearly the best info to find about FSD development in Europe… have watched you for a few years now but this is my first comment here :)
@@StevenPeeters Is the news that Tesla has submitted the mountain of paperwork for FSD supervised to the Netherlands who will subsequently submit to the EU in May any bit hopeful? I assume such matters are outside the purview of UNECE or did Elon mean UNECE instead of EU?
Thanks for the update. Exactly as I feared after Marc left, driven by OEM influence they'll try to delay it as long as possible. Until FSD becomes a product they can buy and put in their cars. We tesla owners are screwed.
FIO . Quite rightly Tesla pays zero attention or credit to the Silly levels as defined by the idiotic NGO SAE Quango. But Hey ! They work as a crutch for Legacy Auto . Proven Relative Safety is the ONLY important measure or benchmark . Once that Signal is proven this all becomes Noise But thanks again for your thorough dissection of the stupidity .
FSD has been a end to end neural network for quite some time, now, nearly two years, if I'm not mistaken. So, no rule to "add", but teaching videos to chose/change. Well what should be changed are the idiots in charge in Europe.
Tesla Belgium did already reach out for an testing approval for this to the Norwegian Road Authorities in November last year, but the Authorities didn’t understand Tesla’s application, because Tesla wrote they would use street approved Level 2 cars for this. And the Road Authorities said that Tesla needed to specify what they meant, since level 2 is already allowed in Norway without further approval. Looks like a catch 22 to me 😅
My guess is after years of meetings and Lots of paperwork we will have SIM on non-Highways in 2029. the compromise will be that a Person with a red flag has to Walk in Front of the car everytime dcas is activated.
So that is the reason I saw that Tesla was offering the task force for a 30 min FSD drive. Makes sense. I honestly think tho that most ppl watching your videos would love to help Tesla with this.
Steven, Many thanks for your temerity in picking these ridiculous pieces of flyshit out of a bowl of pepper. These people are totally clueless in the real world .they only seem committed to demonstrating how “clever “ they are. Pragmatic reality of “safer than human” will prevail & be proven. SO MUCH of this insanity is irrelevant with a Driver not present - which is the inevitable end game . Thanks.
@soma_rc clowns everywhere. Some just call them politicians 🤷♂️
8 дней назад
@@thomasmorel1447Brussel can decide not to follow UNECE ADAS regulations any more, due to their waste of time, replace it with their own committee or just follow USA or Switzerland regulations.
Now that Tesla offered retrofit from HW3 to HW4, for those who bought FSD. The question is, should I buy FSD package now to get this hardware upgrade in the future ? Do you think is there a chance that fsd get approved on europe soon ?
If I could know, I will be able to use it next year at least, I would probably buy the package now. Do you think the price could go up after this approval ?
I fully assume that Tesla will only offer the upgrade when UNsupervised FSD is released, which is many years away. Supervised runs on HW3 in the US, albeit in a reduced version. Tesla will wait as long as possible, because people will voluntarily buy new cars in the meantime and then Tesla can remove the option from the car for resale, so they have zero cost. It is obviously the sensible thing to do from Tesla/financial perspective. Not for us though. I doubt Tesla will upgrade to HW4. It will be more like HW4.5 or even HW5 in a different package to fit in the same location.
So I am getting some messages from ppl telling me that in may, the Netherlands will present Tesla FSD to the EU to change the laws to allow it. I hope that it is true but I am still skeptical about it.
Elon has announced that all HW3 equipped cars bought with FSD will need a new computer installed. I am 99% certain that this must be done to our cars in Europe before any supervised FSD is allowed. Let's hope it's an advanced HW4++ version for future proofing.
@@timepstein274 since supervised runs on hw3 I don’t expect this to be replaced before unsupervised is allowed. They will avoid all the costs as much as possible
I suspect it will be some sort of iteration on the AI5 system… and that it will come in 2-3 years… and that owners will have the option to move their FSD to a new car instead of the want…
@@MikeWhite-w2p because Tesla is the furthest in the technology. But yes, all manufacturers need to do that. I believe that’s what I’m saying in the video
If you want a special permit you need to prove you system is safe! Tesla has never been transparent in this regard even in the US. They are even trying to change the "rules" in the US with Trumps help so that Tesla would even have to report on accidents while using FSD. I wonder why that is.
why do you think more and more countries over the world are moving over to more right leaning politics....because of stuff like this! especially in the EU! when you hear left politicians talk its always : social equality here, social programs there! and then you ask them: well how do you plan on funding that? the answer is always: "tax the rich"! But then, what happens when all the companies leave your country for America, china and India? then you can't do anything! ! I still think in around 5 years none of this will matter because USA and China will just be so far ahead of the rest of the world in self driving and AI tech that the rest of the world will just have to do SOMETHING to compete with them.
Rest of the world will do nothing to compete. They will need to accept their defeat and just approve it and use the technology from USA and China. It doesn't matter if you get there eventually. Those who are first usually have the best thing/product and will be many steps ahead. Examples are Apple , Google , Microsoft, Tesla. They were succesfull thanks to them being innovative and mostly first to push the new technology. What UNECE and Europe are doing to whole industries and technologies is futile and worthless. It is like trying to stop a hurricane by shooting at it from a pistol.
8 дней назад
Based on the regulatory discussions they are still talking about in 2025 I would strongly recommend EU countries to kick UNECE regulations and define a set of rules on their own. This should take at maximum 3 months and not 5 years. This way of endless discussions and endless discussins is blocking innovations in the EU. I still cannot believe that FSD is still not available in the EU while it safes lives in USA&Canada since years.
I don't understand that people.... there is technology that will make the roads significantly safer what about people losing their driving skills 😂 Maybe just stop autonomy 😂
Honestly, a hard limit on the G forces makes sense. You don't want to induce excess wear and tear on the tires. This is not something an AI system can "feel" or really care about. Preferences towards lower G forces can likely be trained, but hard limits may also need to be enforced, and yes it would need to slow down in order to achieve and disobey these hard limits in order to avoid a crash sometimes.
@@JLars it is not so much for crashes but more from a perspective of comfort. You don’t want a semi-autonomous car to drive like a racing car. They’ve gone full grandpa mode on these numbers, but that is the main reason.
That should be up to the consumer to demand a more comfortable ride not in regulations that make the system needlessly complicated and in some areas unsafe.
Looks like I was mistaken with my previous comment as Elon announced during the Tesla earnings call yesterday that they were looking to roll out FSD supervised in Europe in May this year (2025), starting with the Netherlands. He specifically said that the Netherlands was leading a proposal and that proposal would go to the EU in May for approval. Does anyone have any more information? If it's directly to the EU, is this a bypass of UNECE regulations? Here is the clip of him discussing this. ruclips.net/video/BhXVON3sOFk/видео.htmlfeature=shared
There's no bypass of UN Regulations, the EU regulatory framework is partly based on UN Regulations, for the purpose of harmonisation. Tesla's been in the EU game of Type Approvals long enough to know all about this, they need approvals to enter the EU market. Actually, on the type plate of each car you can see the approval number, which also indicates the responsible authority in the EU. It wouldn't be illogical if in that same country things will happen with FSD Supervised.
Everyone is waiting for the release of FSD for Tesla. Tesla should first of all update its regular Autopilot. They are now far behind the other suppliers. I had BMW, Audi, Volkswagen... - all had the more reliable and better autopilot 3 years ago. Tesla accelerates far too much in traffic jams. But otherwise like a snail. In addition, there are by far the most frequent and dangerous phantom brakes. With Tesla I had about 12 of them in 6 months, with the other manufacturers not 3 times in several years. Tesla could finally incorporate at least some of the logic from FSD into the standard Autopilot.
@@Kahe844 agreed. The FSD brain operating within the confines of where Autopilot can currently be used would be a good intermediate step on the way to 'proper' FSD (supervised).
@Steven Peters I got answer from Richard Krueger, Secretary of ADAS Taskforce. I wanna share this Information with you. How I can contact you? Do you have an Mail Adress for me?
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
When technology advances more quickly than politicians can understand it..
They can´t understand something when they don´t even know about it .
@ARPost-kn2jl here as well manufacturer doesn't understand technology 😀
If Tesla didn't obviscate incident details I imagine they would be more open.
Exactly. They removed several working features from the Tesla Autopilot 4-5 years ago which I was using every day without any issues and now they request to prove that these features do work in real life. I would just kick UNECE ADAS from being responsible for any traffic regulations in the EU. They failed finally at this point, are blocking technology progress and this costs lives every day on EU streets.
If Tesla need test drivers I'm ready! Switzerland, travelling all over Europe.
Me too 😀
i do not want to be part of an fsd beta test without lidar and radar that i have not agreed to. as soon as public roads are used, other people are also in danger.
@@alexkoake2422 The whole point is that an experienced driver supervise the system during the testing period, so that it can be released to public only after it has been proven safe by the authorities.
@@alexkoake2422 i'd suggest a trip to North America to experience supervised FSD...
Thank you Steven for keeping track of the useless bureaucrats in Brussels for us. 🙏
@@BerntGranbacke Geneva 🤪
Thanks for the info! I’d sign up as a test driver in the Netherlands right away - I’ve been wanting FSD for so long!
@@mitchellston there is a big difference between wanting to have FSD on your car and actually being a test driver. It’s a real job and a lot of boring diligent testing.
Thanks for the comprehensive update Steven. Pretty disappointing. At this rate supervised will not be released until after unsupervised fully autonomous. Sadly, Europe has been and is regulating itself into oblivion
Or they are protecting us from reckless Musk.
Some of the questions are very sensible, if you're living in 2019. 2019 is when the system-initiated manoeuvres were first released, and UNECE decided to regulate them. It is astonishing that it took so long for them to ask these questions, now that we're on the verge of Unsupervised. Huge face-palm. They'll never make Supervised FSD possible, and it's sickening that lives could be saved but the technology is being locked away by these ********** :(
good work Steven.
I think Tesla would have no problem getting ‘test drivers’ to prove the system safety and answer the questions with real data. I would sign up in the UK tomorrow!
Would you offer to stand in the middle of the road as a driverless Tesla came at you at 50mph?
Me too, although I’m nor sure my HW3 Model X would be at the top of their list for participation.
@@hankkingsley9183That’s what crash test dummies are for… Human testers are not going to be trying to have an accident, they would be supervising the system during “normal” everyday driving. Don’t insult their intelligence or underestimate their desire for their own safety.
As long as the European car OEM are so far behind, UN ECE will block any progress. It is this simple.
@@MartinKli56 No, just no. Get over the conspiracy already. Industry all want to move forward. Germany is ahead with L3 and even L4 regulations. It’s UK and Sweden that act up
I am in as well, ex truck and coach-driver with 2 mill. km experience. Now on average 30k km per year.
One problem I've seen in the USA is people saying "Autopilot" implies an unsupervised system. I've even heard this from the outgoing US Secretary of Transportation. Truly ironic, since an autopilot on boats and aircraft (where the name comes from) are always supervised systems. "Auto" doesn't mean unsupervised...otherwise we can't use the term "automobile" to begin with!
Yes, people should read into what they are buying. If you think the car is something it is not, then it is not Tesla’s fault. But the UNECE wants to protect stupid people against themselves 🤷♂️
@@StevenPeeters more like protecting themselves from getting sued from stupid people doing stupid stuff
There were times when romanian drivers called plain old dumb cruise control "pilot automat", autopliot.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
Thanx steven for your update. If the are looking for more test drivers, i am from The netherlands, and have the FSD package on my car.😅😊
Thank you!
Told you so, it's getting dumber and dumber and it's taking longer and longer and you still have nothing
Forcing systems to follow numbers and patterns in non-numeric and patterned environments is just such a strange decision. How many times have these regulated systems almost caused an accident during my rides because they behaved in a way one would not allow a car to behave in fully human controlled traffic.
This is interesting to follow right now. But it won't be long before looking back at the controversy around FSD will be like looking back at the controversy around automatic elevators (and if your response is "there used to be a controversy around automatic elevators?" that's exactly my point!)
@@truhartwood3170 as long as this doesn’t last 50 years…
@StevenPeeters in 50 years the only cars with steering wheels and pedals will be in museums, old movies, and maybe race tracks.
Tesla already should have large amounts of data from their shadowmode function.
i am speechless. they are completly useless. if tesla is looking for bêta tester i am in.
There is a clear need for a reorganization of these so-called regulators. Their proposed safety measures often create more danger than they mitigate. For example, abrupt cancellations during lane changes-triggered by delays of more than 30 seconds-can leave the vehicle between two lanes at high speeds. This sudden intervention, accompanied by a loud alert and a forceful takeover of the wheel, can cause drivers to feel like they've lost control, posing a significant safety risk.
Many of these regulations, in my experience, feel poorly integrated and counterintuitive. For instance, the system disengaging during highway curves due to excessive force can lead to dangerous situations. These measures don’t improve safety; instead, they add unnecessary complications. As a result, I only use such features 10% of the time, typically on straight highways with no traffic, as they are otherwise unreliable. Additionally, requiring multiple blinks or actions to initiate control within a restrictive 30-second window is inefficient and impractical. A more thoughtful and effective approach is urgently needed.
This.
Well, yes and no. Sure, sometimes the system just gives up, be it because of a bug or because of the "g-force"-limit. BUT, it is a repeatable behaviour, you know the limits so you could actually act accordingly. With an "autonomous" system as Teslas it gets more "complicated". You can't really foresee the next mistake so it might surprise you even more than it did before. But then again, it is Teslas job to work according to UNECE regulations and if they kept their promises like over half a decade ago we wouldt have this conversation in the first place.
And even now they could apply for a special permit but that takes time, cost money and resources and Tesla actually would have to be very transparent which we know from the US they dont want to be and with Trump they hope they can actually change the rules over there so that they dont have to report on accidents etc! Crazy! I wonder why that is ;)
Tesla never really cared about its customers in other countries. They keep promoting their system even thought it doesnt actually fulfill those promises, yet people still buy them. Why should Tesla care about changing anything here if people are still dum* enough fall for their promises and just gift Tesla the money. TBH I would do it like Elon, milk those idiot* and keep blaming the UNECE, win win^^
As a Finnish driver license holder I was able to drive in US with it. Means Tesla should be able to just provide US safety data to UNECE. US has a variety of different road settings in each state, making it comparable with a lot of UNECE bound countries.
Thanks
@@Warekiwi thank you for your support. Much appreciated!
This is exactly why politicians should have as little power as possible. The do not make things safer, just more expensive and limited. Sad.
Thanks for keeping us updated
Thanks for Your update Steven! Greets from Poland!
Thanks ever so much again, Steven, for another great summary! I hugely appreciated these summaries!!
It sounds like they’ve realised the year they’re prepared to wait for industry to gather data is long enough for industry to propose taking over ADAS altogether at least.
This is actually very exciting for me to see, as it seems that there is a fundamental shift in reasoning.
Reading between the lines, it seems that they are internally aware that their rigid, bottom up, hard coded definitions and defined limits approach is broken and unrealistic, especially in a world where a top down, neutral learning based approach with nothing hard coded, has taken over and proven itself more capable than rigid, robotic models.
My interpretation of the last slides specifically offering for the industry to create a new task force, is in fact an admission that they are prepared to throw up their hands and let the industry convince them that a different approach could be safer.
I also agree completely that the only way to resolve their request for real world data on European roads is to allow a controlled beta group of regular drivers (as well as professional testers) to use a supervised self driving mode on European roads to allow the data to be gathered.
I would also be happy to sign a NDA in order to join the early beta testing in Europe (Italy in my case).
I thought we were on the verge of FSDa year ago. Feels like a completely backward step, unless it means trashing the process completely
This is about regulations. Tesla has no control over what policies countries adopt. I'm guessing it will be feature complete by the end of this year, but that prediction is only about the cars ability to drive itself without the driver paying attention. I have no idea how long it will be before it's legal to drive without paying attention.
This is crazy in the context of FSD. The regulations are being updated to reflect where we've been rather than where we are going. FSD means NO driver involvement is required. If it's ONLY for an introductory proving period, per system, that makes more sense.
@@trevor.yardley however, no car manufacturer us even close to true FSD. Tesla’s system is still just a L2 driver assist, no matter how good it appears to be. As long as Tesla is not taking full responsibility for the system, and as long as the laws are not adjusted for L3+, it remains a L2 system
In Australia, the laws are currently being amended such that each entity such as Tesla must take full responsibility for the system's continued safe operation. Insurance companies may need to change also, as I doubt that companies like Tesla will wish to fully underwrite all aspects of a vehicle's insurance needs.
Huge respect Steven for keeping us informed over so many years. Oh man, all your test drive videos many years ago, and still no progress. But, as you said, they now pushed the ball to the OEMs, maybe that‘s the chance now to really get something to happen.
Thank you! Your videos are very well made and very informative!
@@camillopositano8651 thank you for the kind words
Thank you for a clear summary , Steven!
I still can't believe that they are asking for evidence of losing driving skills at 9:28. What do they think happens when people just decide to *NOT DRIVE*? This is something that's been happening forever, and is completely independent of self-driving technology. I can't wrap my head around that question, it makes no sense at all.
Really dumb question when you trying to make autonomy happen. Like asking someone who drives daily to work on a bike if he still knows how to walk.
me too, I will sign up for test driver immediately in Belgium we need FSD.
Ready and available, too, in Portugal.
Appreciate the run down.
@@slowberries you’re welcome
Our only hope is Trump applying tariffs on UNECE 🤡
It’s completely hopeless. These bureaucrats are wasting time, money and lives.
I also believe that some pressure from other side of the Atlantic will be needed . Because manly Europe is on a crossroads and needs to choose from whom they will use technology. The choice is USA or China. Europe died in rockets, in tech and is dying in auto industry and many more. This whole regulation stuff is like kicking around when others want to save you or help. So childish . And FSD and autonomy saves lives, that is already proven.
Ty Steven - one step forward, and several back
@@6776823 maybe not, if Tesla has all the data, they could act quickly. But ADAS has been asking for data for several months now. I wonder if Tesla is even reacting 🧐
@@StevenPeeters did you see Elon musk’s comment about FSD in Europe in the Q4 call yesterday. He said ”Like Europe really has, for example, Europe is a layer cake of regulations of bureaucracy, which that really needs to be addressed. This is a like America innovates, Europe regulates. So, guys, there's too many reps in the field. For example, for us, just to release unsupervised full self-driving in Europe, even though it works really well, we have to go through a mountain of paperwork with the Netherlands, which is our primary regulatory authority.
Then the Netherlands presents us to the EU in, I think, May. And there's like this EU country committee. We expect it to be approved at that time. There's nothing we can do to make that may happen sooner.
In fact, nobody seems to do -- but I guess all the countries would have to somehow vote in some way to have it happen sooner than May. Otherwise, it wouldn't happen sooner than May. So, the is unsupervised FSD a lot in Europe or like May next year, maybe? I don't know. you find out when game. Sometimes it's a 12-month cadence, sometimes it's six-month cadence.”
Which makes me think that he has very little focus on the FSD implementation in Europe…
Super happy about you channel btw, clearly the best info to find about FSD development in Europe… have watched you for a few years now but this is my first comment here :)
@@StevenPeeters Is the news that Tesla has submitted the mountain of paperwork for FSD supervised to the Netherlands who will subsequently submit to the EU in May any bit hopeful? I assume such matters are outside the purview of UNECE or did Elon mean UNECE instead of EU?
@ no idea. Don’t have the document. But I also don’t believe anything Elon says. He needs to sell the hype 😉
Hopeless
Thanks for the update. Exactly as I feared after Marc left, driven by OEM influence they'll try to delay it as long as possible. Until FSD becomes a product they can buy and put in their cars. We tesla owners are screwed.
You are doing a fantastic job following up and translate these documents to plain English!
Thank you for your continued support! Much appreciated!
FIO . Quite rightly Tesla pays zero attention or credit to the Silly levels as defined by the idiotic NGO SAE Quango. But Hey ! They work as a crutch for Legacy Auto .
Proven Relative Safety is the ONLY important measure or benchmark .
Once that Signal is proven this all becomes Noise
But thanks again for your thorough dissection of the stupidity .
FSD has been a end to end neural network for quite some time, now, nearly two years, if I'm not mistaken. So, no rule to "add", but teaching videos to chose/change.
Well what should be changed are the idiots in charge in Europe.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Great video! I've just subscribed 😍😍😍
@@deltajohnny 🙏
Tesla Belgium did already reach out for an testing approval for this to the Norwegian Road Authorities in November last year, but the Authorities didn’t understand Tesla’s application, because Tesla wrote they would use street approved Level 2 cars for this. And the Road Authorities said that Tesla needed to specify what they meant, since level 2 is already allowed in Norway without further approval. Looks like a catch 22 to me 😅
As always, thank you very much for your analysis. Not sure if this is positive news or not and I am really wondering what Tesla is going to do now.
Great video! ❤🇸🇪🙌
My guess is after years of meetings and Lots of paperwork we will have SIM on non-Highways in 2029. the compromise will be that a Person with a red flag has to Walk in Front of the car everytime dcas is activated.
I'd love to be a test driver here in France 😊
So that is the reason I saw that Tesla was offering the task force for a 30 min FSD drive. Makes sense.
I honestly think tho that most ppl watching your videos would love to help Tesla with this.
This is so frustrating. I hope whoever is responsible gets fired
Steven, Many thanks for your temerity in picking these ridiculous pieces of flyshit out of a bowl of pepper. These people are totally clueless in the real world .they only seem committed to demonstrating how “clever “ they are.
Pragmatic reality of “safer than human” will prevail & be proven.
SO MUCH of this insanity is irrelevant with a Driver not present - which is the inevitable end game . Thanks.
@@EvEvangelist temerity: learned a new word today 😁
If Tesla needs data for Slovenian roads I’m ready to sign an NDA
Thanks for the update... so sad to see how we are ruining Europe, such a clown show down in Brussels.
Has nothing to do with Brussels
There's another clown show going on across the pond 😂
@@thomasmorel1447Brussels can just stop applying UNECEs useless regulations.
@soma_rc clowns everywhere. Some just call them politicians 🤷♂️
@@thomasmorel1447Brussel can decide not to follow UNECE ADAS regulations any more, due to their waste of time, replace it with their own committee or just follow USA or Switzerland regulations.
Isn’t it that they at least will allow SIM on motorways in the fall of this year? I know, not what everyone’s waiting for.
Now that Tesla offered retrofit from HW3 to HW4, for those who bought FSD. The question is, should I buy FSD package now to get this hardware upgrade in the future ? Do you think is there a chance that fsd get approved on europe soon ?
If I could know, I will be able to use it next year at least, I would probably buy the package now. Do you think the price could go up after this approval ?
I fully assume that Tesla will only offer the upgrade when UNsupervised FSD is released, which is many years away. Supervised runs on HW3 in the US, albeit in a reduced version.
Tesla will wait as long as possible, because people will voluntarily buy new cars in the meantime and then Tesla can remove the option from the car for resale, so they have zero cost. It is obviously the sensible thing to do from Tesla/financial perspective. Not for us though.
I doubt Tesla will upgrade to HW4. It will be more like HW4.5 or even HW5 in a different package to fit in the same location.
14:29 are you seeking for EU drivers in order to grab typical data from our (complex) roads and fuel FSD model? If yes, I'm in 😂
I'm near Paris in France with HW4 😎 Went to Stockholm last summer 🌞
@@Xavi7192 me too. Been all over Europe, from Montenegro to North Cape 😉
So I am getting some messages from ppl telling me that in may, the Netherlands will present Tesla FSD to the EU to change the laws to allow it.
I hope that it is true but I am still skeptical about it.
@@DoomsYann me too. But until someone actually sends me the document, it is pure speculation on what they are doing
europe needs new leaders asap
Elon has announced that all HW3 equipped cars bought with FSD will need a new computer installed. I am 99% certain that this must be done to our cars in Europe before any supervised FSD is allowed.
Let's hope it's an advanced HW4++ version for future proofing.
@@timepstein274 since supervised runs on hw3 I don’t expect this to be replaced before unsupervised is allowed. They will avoid all the costs as much as possible
I suspect it will be some sort of iteration on the AI5 system… and that it will come in 2-3 years… and that owners will have the option to move their FSD to a new car instead of the want…
Why should tesla provide the requested data and not bmw or Mercedes?
@@MikeWhite-w2p because Tesla is the furthest in the technology. But yes, all manufacturers need to do that. I believe that’s what I’m saying in the video
If you want a special permit you need to prove you system is safe! Tesla has never been transparent in this regard even in the US. They are even trying to change the "rules" in the US with Trumps help so that Tesla would even have to report on accidents while using FSD. I wonder why that is.
Ill also help Tesla get the data I the Netherlands! Hook me up 😊
why do you think more and more countries over the world are moving over to more right leaning politics....because of stuff like this! especially in the EU!
when you hear left politicians talk its always : social equality here, social programs there! and then you ask them: well how do you plan on funding that?
the answer is always: "tax the rich"! But then, what happens when all the companies leave your country for America, china and India? then you can't do anything! !
I still think in around 5 years none of this will matter because USA and China will just be so far ahead of the rest of the world in self driving and AI tech that the rest of the world will just have to do SOMETHING to compete with them.
Rest of the world will do nothing to compete. They will need to accept their defeat and just approve it and use the technology from USA and China. It doesn't matter if you get there eventually. Those who are first usually have the best thing/product and will be many steps ahead. Examples are Apple , Google , Microsoft, Tesla. They were succesfull thanks to them being innovative and mostly first to push the new technology. What UNECE and Europe are doing to whole industries and technologies is futile and worthless. It is like trying to stop a hurricane by shooting at it from a pistol.
Based on the regulatory discussions they are still talking about in 2025 I would strongly recommend EU countries to kick UNECE regulations and define a set of rules on their own. This should take at maximum 3 months and not 5 years. This way of endless discussions and endless discussins is blocking innovations in the EU. I still cannot believe that FSD is still not available in the EU while it safes lives in USA&Canada since years.
I don't understand that people.... there is technology that will make the roads significantly safer what about people losing their driving skills 😂 Maybe just stop autonomy 😂
@@SailingFloh if all cars are suddenly autonomous, then there is no problem. They have a problem where they are only partially autonomous.
Fingers crossed
There needs to be a DOGE for EU
Honestly, a hard limit on the G forces makes sense. You don't want to induce excess wear and tear on the tires. This is not something an AI system can "feel" or really care about. Preferences towards lower G forces can likely be trained, but hard limits may also need to be enforced, and yes it would need to slow down in order to achieve and disobey these hard limits in order to avoid a crash sometimes.
@@JLars it is not so much for crashes but more from a perspective of comfort. You don’t want a semi-autonomous car to drive like a racing car. They’ve gone full grandpa mode on these numbers, but that is the main reason.
That should be up to the consumer to demand a more comfortable ride not in regulations that make the system needlessly complicated and in some areas unsafe.
Looks like I was mistaken with my previous comment as Elon announced during the Tesla earnings call yesterday that they were looking to roll out FSD supervised in Europe in May this year (2025), starting with the Netherlands. He specifically said that the Netherlands was leading a proposal and that proposal would go to the EU in May for approval.
Does anyone have any more information? If it's directly to the EU, is this a bypass of UNECE regulations?
Here is the clip of him discussing this.
ruclips.net/video/BhXVON3sOFk/видео.htmlfeature=shared
There's no bypass of UN Regulations, the EU regulatory framework is partly based on UN Regulations, for the purpose of harmonisation.
Tesla's been in the EU game of Type Approvals long enough to know all about this, they need approvals to enter the EU market.
Actually, on the type plate of each car you can see the approval number, which also indicates the responsible authority in the EU.
It wouldn't be illogical if in that same country things will happen with FSD Supervised.
Tesla you can reach me, i am ready to be beta driver in Türkiye.
Everyone is waiting for the release of FSD for Tesla. Tesla should first of all update its regular Autopilot. They are now far behind the other suppliers. I had BMW, Audi, Volkswagen... - all had the more reliable and better autopilot 3 years ago. Tesla accelerates far too much in traffic jams. But otherwise like a snail. In addition, there are by far the most frequent and dangerous phantom brakes. With Tesla I had about 12 of them in 6 months, with the other manufacturers not 3 times in several years. Tesla could finally incorporate at least some of the logic from FSD into the standard Autopilot.
@@Kahe844 agreed. The FSD brain operating within the confines of where Autopilot can currently be used would be a good intermediate step on the way to 'proper' FSD (supervised).
@Steven Peters
I got answer from Richard Krueger, Secretary of ADAS Taskforce. I wanna share this Information with you. How I can contact you? Do you have an Mail Adress for me?
@@Fred-m8v steven (at) silver-lining (dot) be