Why would someone want to attract competitors to a market where they are doing well? Could it be that he sells courses teaching others how to make money? Could it be that that person's source of income is that? Could it be that it shows things that are more optimistic and easier than they are to attract clients?
He just told you he's on a two-year job for a video game. He makes tens of thousands of dollars with his game packs he sells to game designers. And he does hundreds of other game jobs making music. Do you know someone who is better suited to teach this to others? If you do let me know. I'll interview him too. And I bet he also sells courses on how to do it because that's what people do when they have a good heart and they want to help others, who want to do the same thing.
I would understand quiet skepticism in an online environment where suspect courses are offered frequently, but you know what assuming gets you. Steven has literally shown his yearly budget spreadsheets before, and as someone who considers him a mentor despite not taking his course, he provides a lot of free value, and his course is worth its price for people who can't be as self-guided with applying the knowledge. This is not my music account - he's helped me make a viable career when I had already tried a lot of other things, like selling type beats, for awhile. These guys are doing a service.
Would love to add to the non-exclusive and content ID portion of the video. With a lot of music libraries who enter in a non-exclusive agreement with rights holders (also depends on the fine print), they specifically ask that the music is not registered with RUclips Content ID. There are a lot of music makers who will use multiple companies for the same song with a non-exclusive deal. So they want to make sure there can be no claims on sites like RUclips. Personally, for music I have 100% rights to I don't register with Content ID so there are never licensing problems. Hope that helps!
Honestly, this is the most important video to watch after years waiting. I gone crazy figuring out how to break into the video game music industry because I felt that this sector got tons of opportunities and wins for composers. There was a major video game composer in vi control once said that video game composing is even more profitable than film, tv and ads combined. I specialize in hybrid orchestral trailer music but I really wanna write in-game soundtracks. I'll be having a busy and thorough studying this VGMA. I needed something like that! Thanks a lot my friend
@@MakeMusicIncome I checked VGMA but unfortunately, Steven is asking for a large amount of money for a single level course. There are 12 levels, each level is 90 days and each level costs 500 bucks with a total of $6K for all levels. And of course, you must go for all these levels if you're serious. This is beyond expensive man!
Hi Eric, if I license music with a non exclusive stock library, can I still license that same music with an exclusive sync library? Or is there a conflict there? Love the content!
Thank you Eric and Steven for this interview! If i haven't uploaded music on identifyy, but uploaded the same music on video game websites(unity assetstore, etc) + stock music websites( aj, pond5) how can it be claimed on youtube? As fas as i know none of these stock music websites register our music on identifyy without our permission. So if no one uploads those tracks on identifyy, how can it bother those, who use my music for video games?
I agree with you here. I think Steve's concern was more based that someone might download the music from pond five and put it in a video that gets monetized and that somehow messes up his other clients possibilities of monetization in video games. And the fact that he really doesn't make that much from P5 or places like that versus how much he makes with video game music. So I think his objective is focused on video games and would rather not cloudy anything up with any possible conflicts.
I love Steven Melin and his business-like way of thinking. When I first got into exploring more about the business side of making income through music composition, he was my number 1 source of information. His methods are tried and true and he has really worked hard to build up what he has. On top of that, he's a great, charismatic speaker and a family man. This is all to say that I respect the guy quite a lot! That being said, I don't think his understanding of the content ID/non-exclusive licensing situation was quite accurate. Eric, you're correct that if you upload your music to sites like Pond 5, so long as you haven't uploaded that same music to a service like Identifyy, the library in question would not be searching RUclips for that music and creating copyright claims. Therefore, it would be 'safe' to have the same music in a video game music pack also present on Pond 5. There are some libraries out there though that require you to upload music that has not been included in content ID systems because the library uploads your music to their own form of content ID. An example of a library that does that would be Artlist. Steven is a very prolific man and he has his hands in lots of different pots. I'm wondering if he might've had his music in a particular library that was uploading to a content ID service of their own accord and maybe he didn't realize which library of the many he was a part of was the culprit. At the very least, Pond 5 is safe. At some point in time, he also used to have the music from his packs available for streaming on Spotify, Apple Music, etc. Depending on the distributor being used, there are some that offer a content ID service along with uploading to streaming platforms. Without knowing what distributor he uses, it's possible that it could've been another location where he had something in content ID without realizing it. I sell music packs on all the video game stores Steven was mentioning and I also have that same music uploaded to Motion Array and Pond 5, but do NOT have it uploaded to content ID and I never run into any users with copyright claim problems.
How can you say this the part of the music industry we are all missing out on? Do you know how competitive the game music industry is? And average salary doesn't mean average person is earning $80k a year it means if u take the top 1% earning hundreds of thousands a year and then take the other 90% earning 10k to 20k per year you to that average. It's very misleading. And that average is probably taken from people actually earning money as a game composer, ignoring the thousands of people trying desperately to get into the industry. This video would benefit people more if it was more balanced on pros and cons. But it comes across as a VGMA sales pitch.
I understand. But I know and have taught many of his students, and many others who work in video game music who AREN’T in Steve’s class, and it is a thing. Just like the national average for an audio engineer in 2023 was $74k. And these averages are always based on people who make a tone and ppl who make little. That’s how averages work. However, I understand your point here and sorry his part came out like a pitch. I do things a little different with my pricing, but different people in the industry charge differently. Hopefully some of the information helped.
Why didn't you direct your guest to talk more about the music styles and what genre works best, etc. This seems a bit more about him and his business to sell. Sometimes these podcast can be a let down. I checked out after I felt I didn't learn much. But I at least I learned the vg market is still ripe.
Yes it was much more about “the business of video game music still viable in 2024.” Try these playlists that might provide more info on the music styles and genres: ruclips.net/p/PLZpKxWnXfQzH682WyGTZoGKscDuELhzlY&si=3xbp8Pp50k2sZGmG and ruclips.net/p/PLZpKxWnXfQzGg8Eoz4HF81KWk2k2bIBTB&si=4w-K8W3nXsPcndg4
@@MakeMusicIncome Thank you. Interesting that your guest has this information but he turned me off with the constant sales pitch. At least I now know that he is legit. Everyday I'm seeing new people in my feed selling sync licensing programs and claim people can make hundreds of thousands. Some even said they quit their day jobs, to make it more tempting to novice online to buy their expensive course lol. I actually composed for film/tv too with several placements. But I take breaks and I'm trying to be more consistent and looking for information that is more direct and helpful to go to the next level. Thank you. I like your podcast with sync agents and when they go directly into how the process works.
Yeah, and almost all my guests, and even ME, sell teaching (but mine is much cheaper usually ;) I can’t control that. But they are also the ones that have the information, so I like tot all with them. Another Sync Agent video coming very soon!
@@MakeMusicIncome Yes I recalled you said your prices are quite cheap comparing to others. I'm all about business. I guess it's how it is delivered. Thanks again.
Hi, my question is if I am am in-game and decide to hold a virtual concert with my friends - would a sync licence be required? Because its not actually being recorded - how is this navigated especially with the rise of online virtual worlds?
on this topic about income, do you think the AI Industry will Impact it in any way? i've seen what Udio can do, and even though you can't tell it to do something too detailed or make a niche genre, It does however do a great enough job when asking for something more broad, that its almost worrying because for the untrained ear, they see no difference between it and actual work, that they would rather as well just pay 10$ subscription to generate thousands of music for their picking instead of hiring actual composer who ask for more than 10$ for one track with no revisions
Steven statement on AI: My personal opinion is that as a custom music composer for video games, the demand for my skillset will only increase (and I'll be able to increase rates as a result) while AI will likely disrupt and perhaps even destroy / replace the music licensing space completely. The two things AI can't replace are copyright and originality. By definition, AI music is derivative in nature, so it can never create anything new or bespoke. As a custom music creator, my job is to read the subtext of a story and emphasize it through music and I'm not convinced that AI will ever achieve that level of mastery. AI aptitude aside, we all became music composers because we love creating. There's something incredibly satisfying about creating something from scratch, holding a creation in our hands and exclaiming "I made this". I can't imagine a world where that's ever erased, even if AI finds a way to absorb 100% of the market, composers will still compose for the love of the artistic expression. RE: how will AI affect music packs for video games? No clue. I do think AI will disrupt, destroy, or replace all music licensing at some stage. So in the meantime, I'm putting all my resources into creating the most valuable music packs possible for game developers while the interest and market are yearning for it. All markets rise and decline and I still think we're at the early rise stage (or possibly peak) of the VGM pack market. I imagine this may only last another few years. As with all freelancing business, I don't rely on any one income source with full knowledge that a source could become extinct tomorrow.
![OsamaSon - ik what you did last summer [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4DIQDnu3mr4/mqdefault.jpg)
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Such a good businessman! I also love the extra guest on this show, the laundry machine finished chime at 24:30 !
Love it's a lovely tune isn't it?
Man I love Steve! One of my favorite composers!!
Great guy!
Why would someone want to attract competitors to a market where they are doing well? Could it be that he sells courses teaching others how to make money? Could it be that that person's source of income is that? Could it be that it shows things that are more optimistic and easier than they are to attract clients?
He just told you he's on a two-year job for a video game. He makes tens of thousands of dollars with his game packs he sells to game designers. And he does hundreds of other game jobs making music.
Do you know someone who is better suited to teach this to others? If you do let me know. I'll interview him too. And I bet he also sells courses on how to do it because that's what people do when they have a good heart and they want to help others, who want to do the same thing.
I would understand quiet skepticism in an online environment where suspect courses are offered frequently, but you know what assuming gets you. Steven has literally shown his yearly budget spreadsheets before, and as someone who considers him a mentor despite not taking his course, he provides a lot of free value, and his course is worth its price for people who can't be as self-guided with applying the knowledge. This is not my music account - he's helped me make a viable career when I had already tried a lot of other things, like selling type beats, for awhile. These guys are doing a service.
Would love to add to the non-exclusive and content ID portion of the video. With a lot of music libraries who enter in a non-exclusive agreement with rights holders (also depends on the fine print), they specifically ask that the music is not registered with RUclips Content ID. There are a lot of music makers who will use multiple companies for the same song with a non-exclusive deal. So they want to make sure there can be no claims on sites like RUclips. Personally, for music I have 100% rights to I don't register with Content ID so there are never licensing problems. Hope that helps!
Wow this video was so incredible useful to me Eric and Steven. Thank you! ❤
Nice thanks for watching!
Honestly, this is the most important video to watch after years waiting. I gone crazy figuring out how to break into the video game music industry because I felt that this sector got tons of opportunities and wins for composers. There was a major video game composer in vi control once said that video game composing is even more profitable than film, tv and ads combined. I specialize in hybrid orchestral trailer music but I really wanna write in-game soundtracks.
I'll be having a busy and thorough studying this VGMA. I needed something like that! Thanks a lot my friend
Nice! I’m thinking of getting into it myself as I have moved much more orchestral in recent years.
@@MakeMusicIncome I checked VGMA but unfortunately, Steven is asking for a large amount of money for a single level course. There are 12 levels, each level is 90 days and each level costs 500 bucks with a total of $6K for all levels. And of course, you must go for all these levels if you're serious. This is beyond expensive man!
I get it.
Hi Eric, if I license music with a non exclusive stock library, can I still license that same music with an exclusive sync library? Or is there a conflict there? Love the content!
Conflict. Exclusive means it's not anywhere else.
Thank you Eric and Steven for this interview! If i haven't uploaded music on identifyy, but uploaded the same music on video game websites(unity assetstore, etc) + stock music websites( aj, pond5) how can it be claimed on youtube? As fas as i know none of these stock music websites register our music on identifyy without our permission. So if no one uploads those tracks on identifyy, how can it bother those, who use my music for video games?
I agree with you here. I think Steve's concern was more based that someone might download the music from pond five and put it in a video that gets monetized and that somehow messes up his other clients possibilities of monetization in video games. And the fact that he really doesn't make that much from P5 or places like that versus how much he makes with video game music. So I think his objective is focused on video games and would rather not cloudy anything up with any possible conflicts.
Steven is awesome!
I love Steven Melin and his business-like way of thinking. When I first got into exploring more about the business side of making income through music composition, he was my number 1 source of information. His methods are tried and true and he has really worked hard to build up what he has. On top of that, he's a great, charismatic speaker and a family man. This is all to say that I respect the guy quite a lot! That being said, I don't think his understanding of the content ID/non-exclusive licensing situation was quite accurate. Eric, you're correct that if you upload your music to sites like Pond 5, so long as you haven't uploaded that same music to a service like Identifyy, the library in question would not be searching RUclips for that music and creating copyright claims. Therefore, it would be 'safe' to have the same music in a video game music pack also present on Pond 5. There are some libraries out there though that require you to upload music that has not been included in content ID systems because the library uploads your music to their own form of content ID. An example of a library that does that would be Artlist. Steven is a very prolific man and he has his hands in lots of different pots. I'm wondering if he might've had his music in a particular library that was uploading to a content ID service of their own accord and maybe he didn't realize which library of the many he was a part of was the culprit. At the very least, Pond 5 is safe. At some point in time, he also used to have the music from his packs available for streaming on Spotify, Apple Music, etc. Depending on the distributor being used, there are some that offer a content ID service along with uploading to streaming platforms. Without knowing what distributor he uses, it's possible that it could've been another location where he had something in content ID without realizing it. I sell music packs on all the video game stores Steven was mentioning and I also have that same music uploaded to Motion Array and Pond 5, but do NOT have it uploaded to content ID and I never run into any users with copyright claim problems.
Great stuff. And I have the same thoughts about stock/vgm. As long as you don't put it in any CID system you should be fine.
How can you say this the part of the music industry we are all missing out on? Do you know how competitive the game music industry is? And average salary doesn't mean average person is earning $80k a year it means if u take the top 1% earning hundreds of thousands a year and then take the other 90% earning 10k to 20k per year you to that average. It's very misleading. And that average is probably taken from people actually earning money as a game composer, ignoring the thousands of people trying desperately to get into the industry. This video would benefit people more if it was more balanced on pros and cons. But it comes across as a VGMA sales pitch.
I understand. But I know and have taught many of his students, and many others who work in video game music who AREN’T in Steve’s class, and it is a thing. Just like the national average for an audio engineer in 2023 was $74k. And these averages are always based on people who make a tone and ppl who make little. That’s how averages work.
However, I understand your point here and sorry his part came out like a pitch. I do things a little different with my pricing, but different people in the industry charge differently. Hopefully some of the information helped.
Why didn't you direct your guest to talk more about the music styles and what genre works best, etc. This seems a bit more about him and his business to sell. Sometimes these podcast can be a let down. I checked out after I felt I didn't learn much. But I at least I learned the vg market is still ripe.
Yes it was much more about “the business of video game music still viable in 2024.” Try these playlists that might provide more info on the music styles and genres: ruclips.net/p/PLZpKxWnXfQzH682WyGTZoGKscDuELhzlY&si=3xbp8Pp50k2sZGmG and ruclips.net/p/PLZpKxWnXfQzGg8Eoz4HF81KWk2k2bIBTB&si=4w-K8W3nXsPcndg4
@@MakeMusicIncome Thank you. Interesting that your guest has this information but he turned me off with the constant sales pitch. At least I now know that he is legit. Everyday I'm seeing new people in my feed selling sync licensing programs and claim people can make hundreds of thousands. Some even said they quit their day jobs, to make it more tempting to novice online to buy their expensive course lol. I actually composed for film/tv too with several placements. But I take breaks and I'm trying to be more consistent and looking for information that is more direct and helpful to go to the next level. Thank you. I like your podcast with sync agents and when they go directly into how the process works.
Yeah, and almost all my guests, and even ME, sell teaching (but mine is much cheaper usually ;) I can’t control that. But they are also the ones that have the information, so I like tot all with them. Another Sync Agent video coming very soon!
@@MakeMusicIncome Yes I recalled you said your prices are quite cheap comparing to others. I'm all about business. I guess it's how it is delivered. Thanks again.
Hi, my question is if I am am in-game and decide to hold a virtual concert with my friends - would a sync licence be required? Because its not actually being recorded - how is this navigated especially with the rise of online virtual worlds?
Wow, that's a good question. If it's a one off concert, I don't think so.
on this topic about income, do you think the AI Industry will Impact it in any way? i've seen what Udio can do, and even though you can't tell it to do something too detailed or make a niche genre,
It does however do a great enough job when asking for something more broad, that its almost worrying because for the untrained ear, they see no difference between it and actual work, that they would rather as well just pay 10$ subscription to generate thousands of music for their picking instead of hiring actual composer who ask for more than 10$ for one track with no revisions
Steven statement on AI:
My personal opinion is that as a custom music composer for video games, the demand for my skillset will only increase (and I'll be able to increase rates as a result) while AI will likely disrupt and perhaps even destroy / replace the music licensing space completely. The two things AI can't replace are copyright and originality. By definition, AI music is derivative in nature, so it can never create anything new or bespoke. As a custom music creator, my job is to read the subtext of a story and emphasize it through music and I'm not convinced that AI will ever achieve that level of mastery. AI aptitude aside, we all became music composers because we love creating. There's something incredibly satisfying about creating something from scratch, holding a creation in our hands and exclaiming "I made this". I can't imagine a world where that's ever erased, even if AI finds a way to absorb 100% of the market, composers will still compose for the love of the artistic expression.
RE: how will AI affect music packs for video games? No clue. I do think AI will disrupt, destroy, or replace all music licensing at some stage. So in the meantime, I'm putting all my resources into creating the most valuable music packs possible for game developers while the interest and market are yearning for it. All markets rise and decline and I still think we're at the early rise stage (or possibly peak) of the VGM pack market. I imagine this may only last another few years. As with all freelancing business, I don't rely on any one income source with full knowledge that a source could become extinct tomorrow.