Thanks for posting this test. I have to run a wire back to power a trailer and I kept thinking about running a bigger wire so I had the option of putting in an RV type inverter and extra battery in the truck. Glad to see other people are testing the idea.
Per this video which is amazing configured my 2022 BOLT EUV for hurricanes Ian & Milton with Anderson Connector as per this video. Car fully charged 362mis. averaged 28 miles per day continuously running freezer in garage / refrig-Freezer router for internet, entertainment system, LED lights & sm. appliances occasionally for 3 full days- My inverter was fm Harbor Freight Juniper PURE Advantage 2000-Watt Sine Wave which performed excellently. Never tripped a breaker on the inverter - Got one alarm when added a micro-wave which immediately disconnect. Averaged 38amps DC draw when line tested with Ideal 61-757 600amp tester. Total run time was 3.5 days. All ran flawlessly - (Thank you) Mr. Nelson We own (2) Chevy BOLTS the other is a BOLT 2023 EV these cars are amazing.
So glad it was useful for you! As a side note, microwave ovens draw a lot of power. It's easy to forget that on most of them, the power can be manually set. My home microwave is 1600 watts, but I could run it at 50% power. It will work well, just takes longer to cook.
Similar to the harbor freight 2kw inverter. 2/0 cable doesn't get got even when charging an EV for over an hour. Inverter does definitely get toasty. ~115 amp draw according to bms. Tks for sharing this! ... Gonna freak out any techs when they see that orange plug under the hood haha
It's an electric battery FAR LARGER than a person would typically ever get as part of a solar system, and costs LESS! Add up the price of a new car AND a home power backup. Makes more sense if you get both for the same price!
Yes, you want to have the car on, so the DC/DC converter is active, similar to a gas car with the engine idling to power the alternator. Since it's in my garage, I can have the garage closed and locked AND don't have to worry about carbon monoxide! For people with an attached garage, just run an extension cord straight into the house.
The DC/DC is about 1,600 watts, but you don't want that running full tilt all the time AND you have to subtract out the car's overhead power consumption and the inefficiency of the inverter. The heater I'm using can use 1,200 watts OR MORE. When it's only running 1,200, it all works great. When it draws more, there's been a few times where I could see the battery voltage was starting to drop. Rule of thumb is that most electric cars are probably best used drawing about 1,000 watts maximum continuous power from the 12V system.
Could this be done with a hybrid like Prius or Camry? Would the gas engine start if the 12 volt battery gets to low if you leave ignition on? I’m guessing an 800 watt inverter would be adequate for the furnace fan?
In READY mode the 12v battery is always charging and has a roughly 100A output capability. The engine will run to recharge the hybrid battery as needed.
I don't know much about this stuff, but when the anderson plug is disconnected, is there exposed leads or is there a fake plug or something you can put into it to prevent anything shorting out. Also, I'm assuming it would be more efficient to go straight to the high voltage (using proper inverter that can handle it)...not saying that you should/could with the vehicle, just wondering what the potential different in efficiency would be if the car were designed (as some are) to provide battery backup vs what you're doing. And finally do you know what your runtime would be running it just the way you you're connected and having both furnace and fridge plugged in? I know lots of factors play into that (outside temp, wind, etc). But assuming an average cold winter day.
Two things - one is a rubber cover for the plug. The other is that there's a circuit breaker in line with Anderson disconnect on the positive side. When not in use, the circuit breaker is flipped open, so there's NO voltage at the plug.
As for run-time, I HAVE been tracking my furnace energy usage lately. Over the last week, it's averaged just under 2kWhs of electric energy per day to run the electronics, fans, blowers, etc. on our natural gas furnace. The car has a battery pack larger than 60 kWhs. So, if it was just the furnace, the car could power it for nearly a month. I have NOT recently tracked my average daily refrigerator energy use. I'll have to do that.
@@BenjaminNelsonX Wow that's great, I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near that long for some reason. And thanks for the info for the plug too, that's makes a lot of sense, I forgot you said breaker and I was thinking fuse.
The short answer is yes. The APU (Auxiliary Power Unit, or DC/DC converter) is rated at about 130 amps. At 12V, that's around 1500 watts. Keep in mind that you want to deduct some power for inefficiencies and the power the car itself needs for headlights, electronics, etc. The car should be able to run 1,000 watts continuously no problem. Running higher than that is fine too, but not at a high rate CONTINUOUSLY. If you draw more off the 12V system than the DC/DC converter can provide, the 12V battery (which is really acting as a buffer) will start to drop in voltage. I'm using a higher power inverter because I already had it and it allows for higher surge capability. Some electric devices don't draw high current while running, but will momentarily draw very high current just right as they start. The system can run my furnace and/or my refrigerator. Both really only take a few hundred watts each, but also run intermittently and have a higher starting current draw. On my setup, should the 12V battery voltage go too low, (because of a heavy continuous draw on the 12V system,) the 120V inverter automatically turns off. With that as a safety feature, there's really no way to overload the car.
If you’re talking about max output, you’d still be limited by the dc/dc converter (1.6kw max I believe). You could exceed that for a short time if your inverter allowed, in which case a higher capacity battery would last a bit longer. But you wouldn’t want to do that for too long.
You’re really not running it through the battery. The Dc/Dc converter is providing as much current as the load requires. So, you aren’t discharging the battery. There’s no “wear and tear” on the battery under typical loads.
How do you plan to keep the car on? It'll shut off automatically after an hour or two (depending on if the key is in the car). I've read people pulling the pedestrian noise fuse, putting the car in drive (one pedal on), and putting the parking brake on to keep the car on.
Turn on parking brake, put car in neutral, don’t open drivers door. (The car automatically goes back to park if you do. ) The car stays on with the DC/DC running.
@BenjaminNelsonX the car won't stay in Neutral for a long time (the manual doesn't state how long) and will shift into Park automatically at some point.
Good stuff! I especially like the clean installation with the Anderson connector. Is the inverter a pure sine wave or modified sine? I've heard it's not a good idea to run things like fridges on modified because of the compressor.
I looked at doing the same with my Volt and asked the Volt mechanic that regularly posts on the FB Volt group. He cautioned me that a continuous high amp draw through the DC-DC converter could cause it to fail (expensive). It might be worth testing the "everything on" amp draw of the car's system to get a feel for what the expected continuous draw on the 12V system.
The DC/DC converter on the gen 1 Volt is rated for 165A. That's a lot of current! It's about 2,000 watts. So, drawing only 50% of that is 1,000 watts - plenty of power for a home backup. Note that the converter in the Volt is air-cooled, but the one in the Bolt EV is liquid cooled. On the Volt, the converter is in the back, under the floor of the cargo space. I might fold back the carpet and point a small fan across it if cooling is a concern.
@@BenjaminNelsonX Gen. 2 Volt.Water cooled. That's all what i thought, safe to run below max, but the mechanic guy said the rating was intermittent vs. continuous. Having said all that, this was over a year ago and I can't find that old post. I was skeptical even then but thought it only right to pass along what I was told. FWIW, automotive alternators are rated at their maximum ideal output. They all have lower output once hot, and die young if run continuously at anything like full power. Totally different device but may indicate how Detroit rates these things. EDIT: It may be that heat in the DC-DC box won't trigger the cooling system to step up. Pure speculation but maybe feel the converter coolant outlet while under load. that may be internal on your car though.
I think this will massively stress the DC to DC converter. I think you would be better off to send power into or through an ecoflow or similar product first as a buffer and main draw. That unit would have a maximum draw or input into the unit and would stress the DC to DC converter less and you have more protections built into it. That product could also take more of an in rush draw for start up loads like your furnace blower or a refrigerator compressor. It also would be clean enough power to run sensitive electronics and computers. It would also give you the ability to run a microwave for a few things. I have a mechanical and Alternative energy background . I built my own portable backup power system 15 years ago. I would not advise doing this to your vehicle and if you did I would advise piggy backing right at the battery terminals and not at the vehicle load center. Spend the money for a jackery or Eco Flow or similar device and use your vehicle and Solar to charge the unit as you draw power from it. It is a better safer route to go for backup power. Just friendly advice and not an attack on anyone. Everyones situations are different. In the past I have done the same thing off of ICE vehicles and had to run the engine.
Are you essentially suggesting to use a high-voltage solar inverter from the main battery? That's a great idea, and why I did exactly that on my Mitsubishi iMiEV. It worked really well overall, but was pretty much an experiment because there are so many issues with dealing with higher voltage DC. That system also used CHAdeMO, and at least on that particular car, was EASY to activate power to the DC fast charge jack to directly access the main battery. CCS, such as is on this car is a little more complicated to be able to directly access the propulsion battery. ruclips.net/p/PLmHss3DBZUinCtQhRuwHIYS8kVPXbvtyV
These devices are smart but dumb at the same time. This one also can be used as a back up in the trunk of your EV to charge from to get you down the road a few more miles. Most of these device can use many ways to charge back up or multiple ways to charge at the same time. You could be using an AC generator or inverter on one input and a Solar panel on another input at the same time to charge or pass through while drawing max amps off of the device. It looks at your car as one big Solar panel array.
@@BenjaminNelsonX , is there a way to use a J1772 connector and tap the battery pack DC voltage at the charge connector? Then feed that 380-400 VDC to a Solar inverter?
@@douglasmontgomery6315 NO. The J1772 connector provides AC power to the battery charger which is built in to the car. It's a one-way trip. You can not draw power out THROUGH the car's battery charger. There are some exceptions to this now as "Vehicle to Load" becomes more common, but those require special external equipment and the cables inside the car are wired different. The car has to be specifically designed for it as a feature. In general, DC Fast Charge ports essentially go straight to the battery, and the AC Charge Port (J1772) goes to the internal battery charger.
@@BenjaminNelsonX , ok...I guess I misspoke. What I meant to get across was...is the two pins on the vehicle connector that are used for the DCFC...connected directly to the DC (380-400 vdc) battery and could you use that.
I have a couple inverters and batteries for solar panels. My Nissan Leaf can charge my Bluetti battery/inverter pack. A little simpler than wiring one of the inverters to the Leaf 12v battery.
Sure, there's always more than one way to accomplish the same goal! In this case, energy from the car can power pretty high draw appliances for extended amounts of time. Small battery/inverters usually can't power things like a refrigerator, freezer, or furnace blower, especially at the same time, and for multiple days. But it also all depends on what you need. For camping and just the basics in emergencies, I built the Solar Ammo Can: ruclips.net/video/2NIzIR_Lbkw/видео.html
Great thing about the Volt is that it has an even more powerful DC/DC converter than the Bolt does. Also, having the battery in the back makes it REAL EASY to add a wire harness and just put the inverter in the back with the hatch closed!
Thanks for posting this test. I have to run a wire back to power a trailer and I kept thinking about running a bigger wire so I had the option of putting in an RV type inverter and extra battery in the truck. Glad to see other people are testing the idea.
Per this video which is amazing configured my 2022 BOLT EUV for hurricanes Ian & Milton with Anderson Connector as per this video. Car fully charged 362mis. averaged 28 miles per day continuously running freezer in garage / refrig-Freezer router for internet, entertainment system, LED lights & sm. appliances occasionally for 3 full days- My inverter was fm Harbor Freight Juniper PURE Advantage 2000-Watt Sine Wave which performed excellently. Never tripped a breaker on the inverter - Got one alarm when added a micro-wave which immediately disconnect. Averaged 38amps DC draw when line tested with Ideal 61-757 600amp tester. Total run time was 3.5 days. All ran flawlessly - (Thank you) Mr. Nelson We own (2) Chevy BOLTS the other is a BOLT 2023 EV these cars are amazing.
So glad it was useful for you!
As a side note, microwave ovens draw a lot of power. It's easy to forget that on most of them, the power can be manually set. My home microwave is 1600 watts, but I could run it at 50% power. It will work well, just takes longer to cook.
I was just looking at that exact inverter. Then i just read your comment. Think I'll pick it up. I Was a little worried if it would be good.
Similar to the harbor freight 2kw inverter. 2/0 cable doesn't get got even when charging an EV for over an hour. Inverter does definitely get toasty. ~115 amp draw according to bms. Tks for sharing this! ... Gonna freak out any techs when they see that orange plug under the hood haha
Because that’s the first thing you do when you buy an new car, confirm that you can power your home with it :)
It's an electric battery FAR LARGER than a person would typically ever get as part of a solar system, and costs LESS!
Add up the price of a new car AND a home power backup. Makes more sense if you get both for the same price!
Actually, a lot of people found this pretty useful a few months ago when hurricanes knocked out power in their homes.
Any idea what the capacity of the DC/DC converter is? I assume you need to keep the car powered on, not just on accessory mode.
Yes, you want to have the car on, so the DC/DC converter is active, similar to a gas car with the engine idling to power the alternator.
Since it's in my garage, I can have the garage closed and locked AND don't have to worry about carbon monoxide!
For people with an attached garage, just run an extension cord straight into the house.
The DC/DC is about 1,600 watts, but you don't want that running full tilt all the time AND you have to subtract out the car's overhead power consumption and the inefficiency of the inverter. The heater I'm using can use 1,200 watts OR MORE. When it's only running 1,200, it all works great. When it draws more, there's been a few times where I could see the battery voltage was starting to drop.
Rule of thumb is that most electric cars are probably best used drawing about 1,000 watts maximum continuous power from the 12V system.
Whew, this is heady! Thanks for posting, I’ll look at your other vids and sub.
@@BenjaminNelsonXIs the AC run off 12V power? How much power does it use? How about the heater?
Could this be done with a hybrid like Prius or Camry? Would the gas engine start if the 12 volt battery gets to low if you leave ignition on?
I’m guessing an 800 watt inverter would be adequate for the furnace fan?
Yeah, this would work great with a hybrid. Engine would only run as much as needed.
In READY mode the 12v battery is always charging and has a roughly 100A output capability. The engine will run to recharge the hybrid battery as needed.
Awesome, thanks!
I don't know much about this stuff, but when the anderson plug is disconnected, is there exposed leads or is there a fake plug or something you can put into it to prevent anything shorting out.
Also, I'm assuming it would be more efficient to go straight to the high voltage (using proper inverter that can handle it)...not saying that you should/could with the vehicle, just wondering what the potential different in efficiency would be if the car were designed (as some are) to provide battery backup vs what you're doing.
And finally do you know what your runtime would be running it just the way you you're connected and having both furnace and fridge plugged in? I know lots of factors play into that (outside temp, wind, etc). But assuming an average cold winter day.
Two things - one is a rubber cover for the plug. The other is that there's a circuit breaker in line with Anderson disconnect on the positive side. When not in use, the circuit breaker is flipped open, so there's NO voltage at the plug.
As for run-time, I HAVE been tracking my furnace energy usage lately. Over the last week, it's averaged just under 2kWhs of electric energy per day to run the electronics, fans, blowers, etc. on our natural gas furnace.
The car has a battery pack larger than 60 kWhs. So, if it was just the furnace, the car could power it for nearly a month.
I have NOT recently tracked my average daily refrigerator energy use. I'll have to do that.
@@BenjaminNelsonX Wow that's great, I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near that long for some reason. And thanks for the info for the plug too, that's makes a lot of sense, I forgot you said breaker and I was thinking fuse.
Cool stuff! I don't know anything about this stuff, but am looking to how DIY early EVs can be for V2L. This is neat and as always stay safe!
I heard from other Bolt users you shouldnt be pulling any more than 1000 continuous watts from the system with this method. Is that true?
The short answer is yes.
The APU (Auxiliary Power Unit, or DC/DC converter) is rated at about 130 amps. At 12V, that's around 1500 watts.
Keep in mind that you want to deduct some power for inefficiencies and the power the car itself needs for headlights, electronics, etc.
The car should be able to run 1,000 watts continuously no problem. Running higher than that is fine too, but not at a high rate CONTINUOUSLY. If you draw more off the 12V system than the DC/DC converter can provide, the 12V battery (which is really acting as a buffer) will start to drop in voltage.
I'm using a higher power inverter because I already had it and it allows for higher surge capability. Some electric devices don't draw high current while running, but will momentarily draw very high current just right as they start.
The system can run my furnace and/or my refrigerator. Both really only take a few hundred watts each, but also run intermittently and have a higher starting current draw.
On my setup, should the 12V battery voltage go too low, (because of a heavy continuous draw on the 12V system,) the 120V inverter automatically turns off. With that as a safety feature, there's really no way to overload the car.
Would changing to a larger, higher capacity/density 12v battery help the situation any? Perhaps an Epoch battery?
If you’re talking about max output, you’d still be limited by the dc/dc converter (1.6kw max I believe). You could exceed that for a short time if your inverter allowed, in which case a higher capacity battery would last a bit longer. But you wouldn’t want to do that for too long.
is there a way to get power straight from the dc to dc converter so u dont have to run thru the batteey? it seems like thats hard on the battery
You’re really not running it through the battery. The Dc/Dc converter is providing as much current as the load requires. So, you aren’t discharging the battery.
There’s no “wear and tear” on the battery under typical loads.
How do you plan to keep the car on? It'll shut off automatically after an hour or two (depending on if the key is in the car). I've read people pulling the pedestrian noise fuse, putting the car in drive (one pedal on), and putting the parking brake on to keep the car on.
Turn on parking brake, put car in neutral, don’t open drivers door. (The car automatically goes back to park if you do. )
The car stays on with the DC/DC running.
@BenjaminNelsonX the car won't stay in Neutral for a long time (the manual doesn't state how long) and will shift into Park automatically at some point.
hi may iask how much kw needwd as an input into nissan leaf engine to make full power
I compared 3 other inverters that we much more. Couldn't compare. Operation was very stable.
Good stuff! I especially like the clean installation with the Anderson connector. Is the inverter a pure sine wave or modified sine? I've heard it's not a good idea to run things like fridges on modified because of the compressor.
Pure sine wave. Has lots of good safety features - Hi/Lo Voltage Shutdown, GFCI, etc.
I've tested this running my furnace, and it works great.
I looked at doing the same with my Volt and asked the Volt mechanic that regularly posts on the FB Volt group. He cautioned me that a continuous high amp draw through the DC-DC converter could cause it to fail (expensive). It might be worth testing the "everything on" amp draw of the car's system to get a feel for what the expected continuous draw on the 12V system.
The DC/DC converter on the gen 1 Volt is rated for 165A. That's a lot of current! It's about 2,000 watts. So, drawing only 50% of that is 1,000 watts - plenty of power for a home backup.
Note that the converter in the Volt is air-cooled, but the one in the Bolt EV is liquid cooled.
On the Volt, the converter is in the back, under the floor of the cargo space. I might fold back the carpet and point a small fan across it if cooling is a concern.
@@BenjaminNelsonX Gen. 2 Volt.Water cooled.
That's all what i thought, safe to run below max, but the mechanic guy said the rating was intermittent vs. continuous.
Having said all that, this was over a year ago and I can't find that old post. I was skeptical even then but thought it only right to pass along what I was told. FWIW, automotive alternators are rated at their maximum ideal output. They all have lower output once hot, and die young if run continuously at anything like full power. Totally different device but may indicate how Detroit rates these things.
EDIT: It may be that heat in the DC-DC box won't trigger the cooling system to step up. Pure speculation but maybe feel the converter coolant outlet while under load. that may be internal on your car though.
Why not connect an inverter to the cars main battery?
too high a voltage (400V, some are 800V) for most off-the-shelf inverters (12V, 24V or 48V)
There is nice HV DC to 230V AC pure sine inverter from mitsubishi outlander, got one but no idea how to start it up
I think this will massively stress the DC to DC converter. I think you would be better off to send power into or through an ecoflow or similar product first as a buffer and main draw.
That unit would have a maximum draw or input into the unit and would stress the DC to DC converter less and you have more protections built into it. That product could also take more of an in rush draw for start up loads like your furnace blower or a refrigerator compressor.
It also would be clean enough power to run sensitive electronics and computers. It would also give you the ability to run a microwave for a few things.
I have a mechanical and Alternative energy background . I built my own portable backup power system 15 years ago.
I would not advise doing this to your vehicle and if you did I would advise piggy backing right at the battery terminals and not at the vehicle load center.
Spend the money for a jackery or Eco Flow or similar device and use your vehicle and Solar to charge the unit as you draw power from it. It is a better safer route to go for backup power. Just friendly advice and not an attack on anyone. Everyones situations are different.
In the past I have done the same thing off of ICE vehicles and had to run the engine.
Are you essentially suggesting to use a high-voltage solar inverter from the main battery?
That's a great idea, and why I did exactly that on my Mitsubishi iMiEV. It worked really well overall, but was pretty much an experiment because there are so many issues with dealing with higher voltage DC. That system also used CHAdeMO, and at least on that particular car, was EASY to activate power to the DC fast charge jack to directly access the main battery.
CCS, such as is on this car is a little more complicated to be able to directly access the propulsion battery.
ruclips.net/p/PLmHss3DBZUinCtQhRuwHIYS8kVPXbvtyV
These devices are smart but dumb at the same time. This one also can be used as a back up in the trunk of your EV to charge from to get you down the road a few more miles. Most of these device can use many ways to charge back up or multiple ways to charge at the same time. You could be using an AC generator or inverter on one input and a Solar panel on another input at the same time to charge or pass through while drawing max amps off of the device.
It looks at your car as one big Solar panel array.
@@BenjaminNelsonX , is there a way to use a J1772 connector and tap the battery pack DC voltage at the charge connector? Then feed that 380-400 VDC to a Solar inverter?
@@douglasmontgomery6315
NO.
The J1772 connector provides AC power to the battery charger which is built in to the car. It's a one-way trip.
You can not draw power out THROUGH the car's battery charger.
There are some exceptions to this now as "Vehicle to Load" becomes more common, but those require special external equipment and the cables inside the car are wired different. The car has to be specifically designed for it as a feature.
In general, DC Fast Charge ports essentially go straight to the battery, and the AC Charge Port (J1772) goes to the internal battery charger.
@@BenjaminNelsonX , ok...I guess I misspoke. What I meant to get across was...is the two pins on the vehicle connector that are used for the DCFC...connected directly to the DC (380-400 vdc) battery and could you use that.
I have a couple inverters and batteries for solar panels. My Nissan Leaf can charge my Bluetti battery/inverter pack. A little simpler than wiring one of the inverters to the Leaf 12v battery.
Sure, there's always more than one way to accomplish the same goal!
In this case, energy from the car can power pretty high draw appliances for extended amounts of time. Small battery/inverters usually can't power things like a refrigerator, freezer, or furnace blower, especially at the same time, and for multiple days.
But it also all depends on what you need.
For camping and just the basics in emergencies, I built the Solar Ammo Can: ruclips.net/video/2NIzIR_Lbkw/видео.html
I wanna do something like this to my Chevy Volt
Great thing about the Volt is that it has an even more powerful DC/DC converter than the Bolt does.
Also, having the battery in the back makes it REAL EASY to add a wire harness and just put the inverter in the back with the hatch closed!
me likes.