Small Drum Sticks are NOT Quieter. However...
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- Опубликовано: 30 янв 2025
- You’re playing a gig in a small room, and you know you need to play more quietly…But maybe you don’t need to drop all the way to hotrods. Why not use smaller sticks? 7A sticks would be great for a small room…right? WRONG. Well, sort of. Today we’re digging into a technical gear discussion with some psychological twists. Stick size (and stick WEIGHT) often cause changes in your playing. Learn how to use these differences to your advantage to achieve the sound (and volume) that you desire from your drums and cymbals. Today we’re comparing three (plus a fourth at the end) favorite Vic Firth sticks: 5B, 5A (maple), and 7A. The most fascinating part of this stick comparison is when we listen to the different tips on a ride cymbal. It’s pretty crazy how stick weight and stick tip-type affect the tone of a ride cymbal. Be sure to watch the whole video! :)
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There's a clear difference that 's not mentioned. It's harder to play louder with light sticks and harder to play quieter with heavy sticks.
Yeah, I'd mention that as well. It's harder to play louder with light sticks and harder to play quieter with heavy sticks.
Yeah I definitely agree. It's harder to play louder with light sticks and harder to play quieter with heavy sticks.
That explains orchestral sticks being 2b for ppp to fff?
@@zagyex OP ate so much with this post that bruv had to literally second his motion. Lol. I'm with it!
@@UPdanWait....... orchestral stocks are 2B thick?!????? 😮😮😮😮
That has two meanings. 😏😏😏
But back to the plot. Forreal?!????? 😮😮😮😮😮
A couple years ago, I switched to VF AJ5 (.490) and I've never looked back. A much cleaner sound, more stick control.
I believe your findings are correct and as most know quieter/lower volume playing is accomplished through technique and finesse. Of course more cymbal definition is accomplished with round type tips because there is a confined surface hit with them. As you mention, maple sticks can result in slightly less volume but really lack (imo) a nice ride cymbal sound. However, I have found that the compressed bamboo sticks are even lighter (available in 7A, 5A, 5B) than maples but have a much more defined ride cymbal sound.
I personally use 7A when performing because I am used to using thinner sticks. However, I practice with 5As when Im at home that are a little heavier to get a bit more of a work out in there. I actually cannot stand 5Bs because their so thick.
I normally use 5A. But when I play at church, I always use 7A. Helps me not play too loud.
Like someone else said: it’s harder to play quieter with bigger sticks. And it’s harder to play louder with thinner sticks.
Heard and heard. Personally, I use 5A at church myself. I've gained a slightly infamous reputation for sounding like I'm trying to break the drum heads, lol (I'm heavy handed as heck). But I think 5A gives me the most dynamic range; I need the ability to get real soft to compliment a song, and real loud to drive a song, and the 5A gives me both of em. I like to have that loudness in my back pocket just in case.
Those 7As sounded way different to me lol, especially on the snare, they let more ring/high overtones come out.
Personally playing myself I can absolutely tell a difference in 7a and 5a. It's naturally going to be louder if you're swinging a bigger stick
I couldn't figure out why Steve Jordan would use Paiste Traditionals even in pop/rock situations - until I played them with SJ sig sticks. Then I was like "ahhh..."
I use scorpion 17 " 5a's at home and paiste 2002 cymbals.
I'm going to be getting together with some guys and practicing in a 16'x20' room.
So i went with zildjian A's and ordered scorpion 17" 7a's......hoping that combo will allow me to play like i play at home.
Another insightful video that I always wondered about
Very enlightening.... I totally agree that the size of the stick affects your playing....mentally. I go to a larger stick when playing rock and a smaller one when playing jazz etc. But Hey, Tony Williams used a 2B :-) significant difference on the ride... the tip also makes a big difference IMHO
Can you do a vid on methods of reducing drum volume for live gigs?
Would be cool to see a comparison with nylon tips as well.
Nah Nylon Doesn’t Do Anything To The Drums It Just Makes The Cymbals Sound Brighter
I went through a phase where I played light Timbale sticks. I don't know why. It was just fun to try. After playing 5BN's for so long, they felt like I was barely holding anything thus allowed me to play faster. They also made my kit sound like it was tuned high and the blunt, fat end sounds terrible on the ride.
What about 2b?
I like the way 2b drops on the rim/skin, to produce a meaty sound with the shaft of the stick.
The Ego This has too many double entendres
Did you yet try out the adoro silent sticks?
Great comparison Steve. Being a short guy I like to use 7a for the most part, unless I’m playing a larger room then I will use 5a
Interesting outcome considering that the size of the stick and the tip shape are used as selling points for the sound they make. You read things like "this tip produces a brighter, crisper sound on the cymbals” but your experiment shows that it depends more on the player (and probably the cymbal).
To answer the question one should look at orchestra sticks. Keep in mind the volume ranges from ppp to fff. All with the same sticks. Most orchestra sticks seem to be rather large but taper and of course head differences meeting the dynamics needs of the piece. My favorite orchestra sticks fall into the 5a range. Volume? It’s all up to us.
Interesting stuff... I might also have an unexpected angle... I use Vics 5Bs for everthing... Although, besides thre regular, I also have barrel and round tipped models...
Anyway, one guy once told me; do you want to play soft and quiet? Use thicker and heavier sticks...
His reasoning is that when a low volume is required, you will start to soften your thouch, playing lighter. When playing verry light with light sticks will result in that there is not enough mass to vibrating the heads into sounds that sound better then playing carboard boxes.
I find this to be helpful for me in my gigs that require soft playing!
That being said, you need to keep yourself under control in such situations...
Musical exitement easily leads into trouble with your neighbours, bandmates, audience, ect...
Beautiful set of K cymbals
I play with the Vic Firth SD1 and they're my favorite sticks of all time.
The reason is because I've always preferred 2B drumsticks and they always felt more comfortable to me, but I also wanted more versatility without having to switch pairs.
So these felt perfect due to them being maple and having a round tip. I can control volume and dynamics very well with them.
One curious thing is that Tony Williams used 2B sticks for Jazz. So I think the way you play and your touch matters more than the stick.
I like playing with 2A Vic Firth sticks bc they felt good in the hand. Not to fat, not to heavy. Nylon tips are my go to except when the tip cracks or just comes unglued then you have to flip them over or risk poking a hole in the head.. Wood tips chip but you can continue to play w/o flipping them. They're also very durable and always true not warped. Imo they're good for playing hard and fast.
Try VF SD5 Echo and you’ll see that lighter sticks are definitely quieter. It makes sense since there is less mass impacting the head or cymbals.
I use 7a Manhattan drumsticks for every style of music. Funny how they're the same size as a VF 5a stick. I'll use the VF Grip stick also. I used to play with bigger sticks but i have better sound control with these and easier on the wrists for dynamic playing and also can play more freely and normal. 5bs drag down my playing and i have to hit lighter which i feel like im limited with my playing. So yes lighter the sticks the more harder you can play. Heavier the stick the more lighter you have to play
Thank you for this informative video, as usual!
I use toothpicks compared to most people, luvin my Bopworks 40's swing (.515) and Birdland (.500). Great cymbal tones and I believe slightly quiter.
Thanks for the tip. I am buying these I got use to using rods and broomsticks and found it hard to go back even to a 7A. I will give these a whirl Sir.
I am a little disappointed that you're not going to release videos on Tuesdays anymore. I love your videos btw, I love the 5B/5A as long as it's white coated.
Thank you. Very insightful, I just use 5a cheap SPL sticks and Vater Splash Sticks.
Really helpful. Thank you.
So seems like light 7A stick is good for light play. Thats what am planning to buy.
I think it's all about technique
I practice with 5bs but perform with 5As
You didn't do an SD5 Echo in that test? Maple, itty bitty tip, super long taper. It's essentially your cymbals singing falsetto. They'll still get loudish, but I've actually measured a difference on snare between a 2B and SD5.
I have 7a, 5a, and 5b sticks. I use the 7a sticks when I need or want to play more delicate or intricate patterns. Because the sticks are so and thin, they have a lot of feedback from the kit, which make it easier to feel what i’m doing.
However, I find it complete uncomfortable to play those sticks with a heavier, or louder, beat because they have so much feedback. It sends every hit right back into my hand, and it’s not pleasant, so i’ll switch to my 5b sticks if I need to play louder.
My 5a sticks are kind of my default sticks. The size fits my hands well, and the weight works well, so I usually start sets on those, unless I know I need a particular feel.
Ye, I can back you up on that.
I think main difference between light-heavy sticks is feel and feedback. There is still a lot of difference in sound, but mainly in tone, not so much volume!
If anyone knows of an exploration of this topic from the angle of people who play heavy music PLEASE send my way. I feel like those of us who are physically pushing it with blast beats etc have different needs than the videos I’ve watched, which makes perfect sense
Maybe I missed it, but did you mention one of those sticks had a nylon tip? Those definitely will make a difference in how loud you hear the stick on the cymbal.
G'day Stephen, you didn't do nylon tip/wood tip comparison. That's really a big change in sound as well as playability. Show that difference since you have mics to capture the sounds. I play 7AN Hickory and with them, I can outplay my mate who uses 5AN. I just ordered a 12 pair box of 7 bead wood TIP Hickory. AH7BW from Artist. I've only been through 3 pairs of 7AO/Oak but one stick was dropped between the wall and floor of my practice shed. So, basically outplayed my mate and have only just got onto my 2nd pair of 7AON in 9 months
When you were editing this video did you notice any -dB difference?
I was thinking similarly, but I was going to suggest that having a sound meter measuring dB close to the surfaces would give a more scientific edge to the test since our ears can vary. It also would give you data that could be applied to a spreadsheet for easier comparison. Of course.... I'm geeking out on this where Stephen may not want to go that deep if he's only looking to figure out if you can play smaller rooms by using different sticks.
Physics! Force = mass x acceleration ...
More weight more force.
More force more louder,
Only if you accelerate the sticks at the same rate...
For me playing with heavy 2B's is more effortless for ex. when the aim is to go super fast and loud. I get more leverage (if that's the right word) from them. Whereas getting the same result in 7A's requires more work from my body to compensate on the light weight of the stick. And I'm sure if I would have 7A's that had the same weight than 2B's, the results would then be similar. So I would say weight matters, at least more than size.
Big beefy sticks give me more control, thinner long sticks have a snap to them without compromising touch, I’ve played with super thick and thin sticks before and it really only takes a day or so to get super used to any pair of sticks for me, light sticks can be super loud, and big sticks can be sensitive.
Great info! I always just assumed a smaller stick waa quieter! Now would a metal style thick stick be louder than a 7A? Or are they just that big becayse metal players bash their drums and they want the stick to last? Most of the time I've been drumming I've used 7A nylon tips but lately I switched to Dave Weckle signature stick.
If your stick is heavier, you'll have more volume.
I will always choose 7a 😊
I generally use oak sticks as I like to drive into the heads to kill some tone and I tend to break hickory/maple sticks this way.
I like a dead sounding kit, really percussive. So much so that I use hydraulic heads, which "tune" with a ripple and concert toms. Super punchy, I have heard bass drums with less low tones than my rack toms. 😂
You should test out with nylon, oak as its very heavy and even different stick balances. I use 747 as I like the thickness of a 5A but that extra 1/4 add a little more weight to the end for great ride response.
I have used vic firth SD4s and all the way up to their corpmaster line and there's a massive difference in feel between sticks. I would NEVER use a corpmaster stick on a standard drum set because i would be afraid to break heads and cymbals...on the other hand, I feel like SD4s would shatter within minutes of playing loud rimshots on a marching snare. Like you said, a heavy stick wants to play loud while a light stick wants to play quiet. Compare a Peter Erskine Signature stick to a Danny Carey signature stick. One plays jazz fusion while the other plays progressive rock/metal. Both sticks are massively different in weight, length and feel.
How about the same sticks, but comparing wooden tips with nylon tips? Especially on the cymbals.
What sticks should I get for playing jazz
I like the Pro-Mark brand Louis Bellson 727, nylon tip sticks. Nice length, circumference, weight and over-all feel. I always preferred nylon tips because of the "ping" definition on the cymbals. Pro-Mark used to have a division labeled Hall-Mark which made sticks out of black hickory with teflon tips. They were almost indestructable! I had mine for almost 30 years before the tips finally wore out,
The snare drum sounds slightly thinner to me with the 7a’s
I totally agree.. I like 7a sticks but I mainly use 5a because better response to the snare and cymbals and my wrists get more tired with 7a because I hit a bit harder with them..
Try the Promark Maple Jazz Cafe 11 (super tiny AND maple). If find a big difference with regular sticks :)
Do you know if those are smaller or lighter than the super jazz
Ive done a test myself using a good db meter... the difference is 2 to 5 db per stick size... theres also a tone difference. Smaller gives a thinner brighter sound. Compare a vic firth kid stick to vic firth metal classic... obvious big difference
I have always switched from 5Bs to 7As to play quieter. I agree it’s mostly how my hands feel with the lighter sticks. All I really care is that it works.
My favorite sticks are huge, about a 2b, bit it is pretty easy to play lightly. I use the Danny Carey signatures.
I beg to differ. there is a significant volume and tone difference between 5b and 5a. I do prefer the feel of 5a, but the tone & volume coming out of the drums and cymbals is much fuller on 5b when applying the same force..
Thx 4 this.
Very good video and imformitive
I like Vic Firth maple SD9. They're fat with an oval tip but they don't weigh much because they're maple.
This is why when trying out cymbals I tell people bring a couple pair of your favorite sticks with you. Size of the stick and especially the tip can really change the sound of a ride cymbal.When I was a working drummer I used promark 747 hickory and oak.Since retirement in my studio I switched to Vic firth sd4 maple,what a big difference in cymbal sound.Ended up changing ride cymbals. Bring your sticks with you!!!
Orchestra sticks are 2b for ppp to fff. Its all in your hands not head. Control.
You have some serious issues if you are using the 7a sticks as a toothpick. I use mine for playing the drums. Give it a try. You may actually discover something important! Best wishes!
So uhhhh, technically, it don't........but ultimately, it do. Right? Did I get it?
I am an audio engineer and a drummer. My father is a drummer. I can hear a difference in the weight of the stick that is hitting the heads. 7A, not as much heavy thump when you are just moving around the toms. 5B, you can feel the thud from these...I change heads (clear/coated, 1 ply/ 2 ply) and stick sizes from recording to recording, depending on the genre and desired results from the recording.
Apologies AH7AN being used. 7AON on way. Be well. Much respect. S
That snare died four weeks ago...
Theres really no diffrence, Ive been using small and big sticks and both of them got the same Volume
Oh YEAH! AH5A's! These weigh like NOTHING compared to 5A Hickory. Fast sticks.
hm
but how u know u them equally?
maybe build a robot to hit the sticks
big , small sticks whatever ,,i doesnt matter ...a drummer should be able to play quietly with heavier stcks or lighter sticks...makes no difference to me..
They call me childish flambino
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It's still too loud!!
Use chop sticks
You're not playing loud enough
Physics play no part in it at all... such as momentum, energy. Try driving a nail with a 1/2 pound hammer, then drive that same nail with a 2 pound hammer. Yep, weight makes no difference whatsoever. Thats why hot rods are useless for reduced volume playing. 🙄
Also, try using a decibel meter to test your theory.
Driving nails with hammers and playing drums with drumsticks are not the same thing.
hotrods are far far quieter than normal sticks on cymbals
1st ;)
No one cares
Nice
I farted.
I normally use 5A. But when I play at church, I always use 7A. Helps me not play too loud.
Like someone else said: it’s harder to play quieter with bigger sticks. And it’s harder to play louder with thinner sticks.