Hello Dear Master Sora, I hope you are well. Just wanted to update you regarding varnishing my first violin. I finally managed to obtain all the materials including the Casein to make the primer. I followed your advice and used Elemi instead of linoxyn at 1:5 ratio. After filtering the varnish It looked all good. So now I am on the 5th coat of varnish and the appearance of the wood is really rich golden colour. I am planning to apply at least 2 or 3 more. I like the colour but I would like to make it darker. I bought some pigments on line but they don’t dissolve in alcohol. Could you please advise me how to make different colour varnish still as per your formula. I am sorry for taking up too much of your time but please only respond if you can find a minute or so. I really don’t know much Master. Wish you and your family Merry Christmas. Regards
Pigments do not dissolve because they are insoluble, but must be kept in dispersion/suspension by stirring the varnish before and during application. I use them (I make them myself) because I think they give superior results in the final color effect, but I must admit that they require a rather difficult and complex application technique for beginners (and also for professionals...😅). A simpler way to color the varnish (used by many professional makers too) is to use synthetic soluble colors (such as JOHA brand: www.all4violins.com/en/shop/resine-colle-pennelli/coloranti/r-852-96-color-extract-joha-100-ml-various-colors/) which are added in drops until the desired intensity and shade are reached. Just buy a red-brown so that the red is not too bright, and add drop by drop to the varnish which, being a golden yellow base, will result in a warm red-orange color. It is not the same iridescent effect that you get with pigments, but to learn at the beginning it can be fine, possibly adding a small amount of insoluble pigment to increase the intensity of the red component. Using a little color and keeping the violins lighter is easier and advisable at the beginning, to obtain intense colors as you see on my violins is not easy and it takes a lot of experience to obtain presentable results.
you can find the recipe written at the beginning of the video, didn't you see it? Find all the videos about how I make my varnish in this playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLaxadm6POX7EYXWa62vyXkBgcBOK0YnIg&si=rU6LLsuTQFZe7LFi
Hey David, was a pleasure to meet you! I hope to varnish 2 Instruments near Summer this year and wondered how long this particular varnish takes to dry? All the best to you! Thanks.
Hi Sam, my pleasure! I apply two layers of varnish per day at most, but this depend on ambient condition and if you use an UV drying box or not. Without UV box one layer per day would be better. When the varnishing is finished I have to wait at least one week befor setting up the violin to let the varnish bear the pressure of the bridge feet, but I think that the complete maturation takes about two months or more, during which the varnish will seem perfectly dry but in reality it will continue to compress slightly due to the presence of minimal residual traces of the solvent trapped which will slowly have to make its way through the layer and evaporate definitively. This is a usual behaviour of solvent varnish, whether it be oil (with solvent) or alcohol varnishes.
i know im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a trick to log back into an Instagram account?? I was dumb forgot my login password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me!
@Knox Sergio Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im trying it out atm. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
Maestro how Many layers of casein ground do you use before varnish? And after this May i varnish or you do something else? The color is in the varnish?
Depends on the degree of absorbency of the wood (ie density), usually one or two coats will do the work. However, the casein (or others protein sealers) must be inside the wood and not on the wood, it must not form a glossy layer. It is followed by a refractive sealer like mastic or colophony dissolved in turpentine essence, again in the wood and not on the wood as to not forming a real glossy layer. Than varnish without color and after this colored varnish and then final uncolored varnish.
Alcohol varnish probably is not that of Stradivari, but in the case of those with shellac they are more resistant to wear caused by abrasion and above all they have a greater resistance to the player's sweat and humidity of the humid climates, this is the main reason why I prefer it. From an acoustic point of view it depends on the composition and not on the solvent used. Moreover, on most of the antique violins there is not much original varnish left but on the contrary there is a lot of shellac due to the overlapping of varnish (mainly 1704 shellac varnish used by the restorers) and for the widespread French polishing, so varnish is not decisive for the their sound. However, I also experiment with oil varnishes mainly to better understand the historical reasons, but the colors I use are the same for both, that is to obtain a base color mainly from resins and give color tones with insoluble pigments such as cochineal and madder lakes for example, which I make by myself.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Anyway, you can find how to make chicory color in this video: ruclips.net/video/8183e47m-bs/видео.html Find the English translation in the description page or in the pinned comment
@@andrzejtruchan5236 The reds I use are madder and cochineal lakes (pigments), but the final color is the sum of many factors: wood, varnish layering, added pigments, etc.
Hello maestro. With your valuable help I have reached the critical point of the varnish. I have put the casein and I am ready for the sequel. Can you give me the ratio you use for the refractive sealer with mastic as well as the way of application? Thank you very much.
The concentration of the refractive sealer is about 16%, i.e. about 4 g of mastic in 20 g of turpentine essence, to which I add up to 20% of finely powdered pumice. I apply it abundantly with a brush, then remove the excess with a rag moistened with alcohol and I let it dry for 24/48 hours in the UV box (or a week in the air if you don't have UV lamps). It is important that a thick layer does not form, but the sealer must only remain just inside the surface of the wood without forming a glossy layer.
A respectable sora I have a question. I could not get a constant red color because the alcohol quickly evaporated when I painted an alcohol varnish with a red color What about your varnish recipe?
Yes, applying the layer of colored (red) alcohol varnish uniformly is a difficult challenge requiring a refined brush technique, high-quality sable brushes are helpful. In any case it is practically impossible to get perfect results straight from the brush, I also need a few days of retouching with small brushes to balance the lighter and darker areas, but if you get too many darker spots from the beginning it could be quite difficult to eliminate them completely and more likely you will end up getting a "leopard skin" effect or with a too dark overall color😊 My recipe you see in the video has no added color (it's for first layers and for final layers, colored layer stay in between), but in any case it has a pretty intense golden yellow color obtained from resins (seedlac and linoxyn), to which I add red lakes of madder and cochineal and a little bit of brown / black madder lake to slightly cut the excessive brilliance of red lake alone. With these types of colors (insoluble pigments that I make by myself following historical recipes) it becomes even more difficult to achieve uniformity and you easily risk killing transparency if you put too much and of poor quality , but if applied correctly the end result is far more beautiful. You can try with alcohol-soluble synthetic or natural colorants too, it's easier but not too much.....getting good results is always difficult and requires experience, unless you are satisfied with a yellow color only.
Many possible factors, hardness, friability, adherence issues with ground layer, poor cooking of oil varnish, poor elastic properties of the soft fraction for alcool varnish and the list could still be extended. However your question is too general, the first answer would be "the first factor is probably the bow hitting it at the edge of a C bout", for example....🙂 Anyway, ancient cremonese varnish is chippy in nature, so should be something desirable acoustically.
Teacher, I’m a student who study a vioiln making by myself in south korea. Because of this pandemic hit. I’m supposed to go to cremona school this year. but I can’t . so I was trying to learn varnish thing and I found out your channel really helps. I’m grateful that I can see your works. And I have a question. I couldn’t understand the explaination you wrote below. “The proportions are related to the actual content of resins in the varnish ready for application. Not to the raw resins that are used to make the varnish.” I’m not sure what’s different between ‘actual content of resins in the varnish’ and ‘raw resin that are used to make the varnish’ If you don’t mind could you please explain more detail about it?
When you make varnish you have to filter every single resin to eliminate impurities and improve transparency. Raw shellac, in particular, contains a lot of impurities and a lot of wax to be eliminated by filtering in filter paper. You can lose up to 40% of the initial weight of the raw resin and this would spoil the proportion with linoxin or other resins. I dissolve and filter each resin separately before joining them together to make the varnish, in order to make exact and repeatable proportions. After filtering I let the filter dry thoroughly with the residue, then subtract the weight of the filter to obtain the amount of material lost in the filtering.
Davide Sora teacher, thank you for your comment! now, I can understand! I can tell why you are a great maker whenever you reply to others. It helps me a lot! Thanks a million. I really hopes things go back to normal soon in italy🙏🏻
Essenza Grassa is oxidised turpentine essence, boiled down to marmalade consistence. Very good refractive index that give a good contrast if applied as a ground or used as a softener in alcool varnish. But too soft for my taste and very slow drying if used in excessive amount. I don't understand what you mean with Olio di line chinese, if you mean Olio di pino cinese, is an oil used to clean brushes (I do not like it but some use it) but if you mean Olio di lino cinese (linseed oil) I never heard of it, maybe refer to Tung oil, a siccative oil from China used for varnish making.
thank you, some say that essenza grassa is kinda polymerized turpentine sprit aged in the air or by giving it air to age it. Second yes it must be olio di pino chinese because wer were told that its used to clean the brushes. A translation mistake it seems. Why dont you like it? The teacher said it cleans the brushes very well and make them soft.
This is correct, but once you have polymerized the turpentine essence for some time (many months) you get oxygenated turpentine that is dense but still in a liquid form, at this stage you can boil it to speed up further polymerization to get the very dense consistency (not liquid or fluid) of "essenza grassa". If you cook further keeping the temperature up to about 280° for a long period you will turn it into a solid resin like colophony. The process is potentially dangerous and need a lot of cautions, see Fulton terpene oil varnish for details, complete description available on the web. I do not like chinese pine oil because of the oily residues that may remain on brushes and because I never clean my brushes but let them dry covered with a little varnish (alcool varnish, not oil) that protect them and keep the right shape of the hairs, my brushes treated this way are almost 20 years old and are still working fine. If I have to clean them for some reason (i.e. after use with oil varnish) i clean them thoroughly with solvent and after I give a wash with warm water and neutral soap (sapone di Marsiglia) that it's all I need. Anyway chinese pine oil may work good too and is the method taught at the school by almost all teachers, but not by me. Simply I do not think it is worth the extra cost of buying it but is a quite diffused method of cleaning.
Good morning from Greece. Teacher Davide I have two more questions. What varnish do you put on the neck (the point where the violinist has his hand). And if the varnish without color before that with the color (all over the violin) is applied with a brush and how many layers you apply. Thank you very much.
The neck is not varnished, it is treated only with linseed oil applied with a rag, three or four passes in the space of a week, drying well between each pass. Of course it was first treated with casein and with mastic and turpentine like all the rest of the violin, but then these layers will be sanded down to the wood to remain only as impregnating agents. After this sanding I apply a little color, usually chicory extract or propolis, but many other water soluble colorants may work, or even some oil colours can be used. After the color I polish the surface with very fine sandpaper (Micromesh grit 3200) and then it's time for the final linseed oil treatment. The violin varnish would not be suitable for the neck because it would wear out too easily making a mess, some use shellac which is more hard and moisture-resistant and works, but the feel of a slippery varnish surface is different from the more natural and silky one, tipical of the wood simply treated with a very thin layer of oil.
@@DavideSoraThanks master davide once again. I must say that the second part of my question was about the whole violin and not just the neck. Sorry i keep asking questions but it is my first violin and the questions are many. Everything I have achieved so far is from your videos. God bless you.
@@mesimerisnikos The layer of clear varnish before the colored one must be enough to build-up a uniform glossy coat. This may need 5 or 6 coats of alcohol varnish or 1 or 2 coats of oil varnish. In any case it is always a little different and depends on the dilution, you have to look if some opaque areas remain on the surface and in this case you have to put one or two more coats, or next time use a lower dilution to keep the number of coats lower. the dilution of the varnish must be as low as possible, just the right amount to allow good brushing
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Complimenti Davide stai facendo(bene)il lavoro più bello del mondo
Complimenti maestro!colore e trasparenza una vera meraviglia...
Hello Dear Master Sora,
I hope you are well.
Just wanted to update you regarding varnishing my first violin. I finally managed to obtain all the materials including the Casein to make the primer.
I followed your advice and used Elemi instead of linoxyn at 1:5 ratio. After filtering the varnish It looked all good. So now I am on the 5th coat of varnish and the appearance of the wood is really rich golden colour. I am planning to apply at least 2 or 3 more.
I like the colour but I would like to make it darker. I bought some pigments on line but they don’t dissolve in alcohol.
Could you please advise me how to make different colour varnish still as per your formula.
I am sorry for taking up too much of your time but please only respond if you can find a minute or so. I really don’t know much Master.
Wish you and your family Merry Christmas.
Regards
Pigments do not dissolve because they are insoluble, but must be kept in dispersion/suspension by stirring the varnish before and during application. I use them (I make them myself) because I think they give superior results in the final color effect, but I must admit that they require a rather difficult and complex application technique for beginners (and also for professionals...😅). A simpler way to color the varnish (used by many professional makers too) is to use synthetic soluble colors (such as JOHA brand: www.all4violins.com/en/shop/resine-colle-pennelli/coloranti/r-852-96-color-extract-joha-100-ml-various-colors/) which are added in drops until the desired intensity and shade are reached. Just buy a red-brown so that the red is not too bright, and add drop by drop to the varnish which, being a golden yellow base, will result in a warm red-orange color. It is not the same iridescent effect that you get with pigments, but to learn at the beginning it can be fine, possibly adding a small amount of insoluble pigment to increase the intensity of the red component. Using a little color and keeping the violins lighter is easier and advisable at the beginning, to obtain intense colors as you see on my violins is not easy and it takes a lot of experience to obtain presentable results.
Hi Davide
Can you explain mee how made zinc resinate ground color & zinc yelow wat need use resin therpentin
it's too long to explain, you can find all the instructions on resinates in Michelmann's book "violin varnish" available for free on the web
Hi David
I can't find video how you make cykoria color can you send mee this video
Here it is:
ruclips.net/video/8183e47m-bs/видео.html
Find the English translation of the Italian text on the description page of the video
@@DavideSorathanks so much
great video, i subscribed
Wow, nice!
Wat indegrients how to made this stuff
you can find the recipe written at the beginning of the video, didn't you see it? Find all the videos about how I make my varnish in this playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLaxadm6POX7EYXWa62vyXkBgcBOK0YnIg&si=rU6LLsuTQFZe7LFi
Hey David, was a pleasure to meet you! I hope to varnish 2 Instruments near Summer this year and wondered how long this particular varnish takes to dry? All the best to you! Thanks.
Hi Sam, my pleasure!
I apply two layers of varnish per day at most, but this depend on ambient condition and if you use an UV drying box or not. Without UV box one layer per day would be better. When the varnishing is finished I have to wait at least one week befor setting up the violin to let the varnish bear the pressure of the bridge feet, but I think that the complete maturation takes about two months or more, during which the varnish will seem perfectly dry but in reality it will continue to compress slightly due to the presence of minimal residual traces of the solvent trapped which will slowly have to make its way through the layer and evaporate definitively. This is a usual behaviour of solvent varnish, whether it be oil (with solvent) or alcohol varnishes.
i know im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a trick to log back into an Instagram account??
I was dumb forgot my login password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me!
@Harlem Eugene instablaster ;)
@Knox Sergio Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im trying it out atm.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Knox Sergio It worked and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thank you so much you saved my ass!
Maestro how Many layers of casein ground do you use before varnish? And after this May i varnish or you do something else? The color is in the varnish?
Depends on the degree of absorbency of the wood (ie density), usually one or two coats will do the work. However, the casein (or others protein sealers) must be inside the wood and not on the wood, it must not form a glossy layer. It is followed by a refractive sealer like mastic or colophony dissolved in turpentine essence, again in the wood and not on the wood as to not forming a real glossy layer. Than varnish without color and after this colored varnish and then final uncolored varnish.
Davide Sora thanks again
Maestro do you use oil color? And do you prefer alcohol varnish knowing strad used oil varnish or i am wrong?
Alcohol varnish probably is not that of Stradivari, but in the case of those with shellac they are more resistant to wear caused by abrasion and above all they have a greater resistance to the player's sweat and humidity of the humid climates, this is the main reason why I prefer it. From an acoustic point of view it depends on the composition and not on the solvent used. Moreover, on most of the antique violins there is not much original varnish left but on the contrary there is a lot of shellac due to the overlapping of varnish (mainly 1704 shellac varnish used by the restorers) and for the widespread French polishing, so varnish is not decisive for the their sound. However, I also experiment with oil varnishes mainly to better understand the historical reasons, but the colors I use are the same for both, that is to obtain a base color mainly from resins and give color tones with insoluble pigments such as cochineal and madder lakes for example, which I make by myself.
I got it, thanks again😃
Hi David
You ged something too make colors cykoria I'm like
Maby you ged mor products
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Anyway, you can find how to make chicory color in this video: ruclips.net/video/8183e47m-bs/видео.html Find the English translation in the description page or in the pinned comment
Wat you use you ged Reed color this violin
I'm try doo cinamon color
Is hard too doo
Can explain mee wat use for cinamon colors effect
@@andrzejtruchan5236 Sorry, except for the neck, I don't use dyes to color wood.
@@andrzejtruchan5236 The reds I use are madder and cochineal lakes (pigments), but the final color is the sum of many factors: wood, varnish layering, added pigments, etc.
Hello maestro. With your valuable help I have reached the critical point of the varnish. I have put the casein and I am ready for the sequel. Can you give me the ratio you use for the refractive sealer with mastic as well as the way of application? Thank you very much.
The concentration of the refractive sealer is about 16%, i.e. about 4 g of mastic in 20 g of turpentine essence, to which I add up to 20% of finely powdered pumice. I apply it abundantly with a brush, then remove the excess with a rag moistened with alcohol and I let it dry for 24/48 hours in the UV box (or a week in the air if you don't have UV lamps). It is important that a thick layer does not form, but the sealer must only remain just inside the surface of the wood without forming a glossy layer.
@@DavideSora Thank you mister Davide. I hope all this helpness return to you someway.
A respectable sora
I have a question.
I could not get a constant red color because the alcohol quickly evaporated when I painted an alcohol varnish with a red color
What about your varnish recipe?
Yes, applying the layer of colored (red) alcohol varnish uniformly is a difficult challenge requiring a refined brush technique, high-quality sable brushes are helpful. In any case it is practically impossible to get perfect results straight from the brush, I also need a few days of retouching with small brushes to balance the lighter and darker areas, but if you get too many darker spots from the beginning it could be quite difficult to eliminate them completely and more likely you will end up getting a "leopard skin" effect or with a too dark overall color😊
My recipe you see in the video has no added color (it's for first layers and for final layers, colored layer stay in between), but in any case it has a pretty intense golden yellow color obtained from resins (seedlac and linoxyn), to which I add red lakes of madder and cochineal and a little bit of brown / black madder lake to slightly cut the excessive brilliance of red lake alone. With these types of colors (insoluble pigments that I make by myself following historical recipes) it becomes even more difficult to achieve uniformity and you easily risk killing transparency if you put too much and of poor quality , but if applied correctly the end result is far more beautiful.
You can try with alcohol-soluble synthetic or natural colorants too, it's easier but not too much.....getting good results is always difficult and requires experience, unless you are satisfied with a yellow color only.
👏👏👏
hello Davide, which factors result chipping in a varnish?
Many possible factors, hardness, friability, adherence issues with ground layer, poor cooking of oil varnish, poor elastic properties of the soft fraction for alcool varnish and the list could still be extended.
However your question is too general, the first answer would be "the first factor is probably the bow hitting it at the edge of a C bout", for example....🙂
Anyway, ancient cremonese varnish is chippy in nature, so should be something desirable acoustically.
thank you again
always thank
you I have one question. Do you paint only casein in instruments?
No, casein Is just the barewood sealer, then i apply the varnish you see in this video.
Teacher, I’m a student who study a vioiln making by myself in south korea. Because of this pandemic hit. I’m supposed to go to cremona school this year. but I can’t . so I was trying to learn varnish thing and I found out your channel really helps. I’m grateful that I can see your works. And I have a question. I couldn’t understand the explaination you wrote below.
“The proportions are related to the actual content of resins in the varnish ready for application. Not to the raw resins that are used to make the varnish.”
I’m not sure what’s different between ‘actual content of resins in the varnish’
and ‘raw resin that are used to make the varnish’
If you don’t mind could you please explain more detail about it?
When you make varnish you have to filter every single resin to eliminate impurities and improve transparency. Raw shellac, in particular, contains a lot of impurities and a lot of wax to be eliminated by filtering in filter paper. You can lose up to 40% of the initial weight of the raw resin and this would spoil the proportion with linoxin or other resins. I dissolve and filter each resin separately before joining them together to make the varnish, in order to make exact and repeatable proportions. After filtering I let the filter dry thoroughly with the residue, then subtract the weight of the filter to obtain the amount of material lost in the filtering.
Davide Sora teacher, thank you for your comment! now, I can understand!
I can tell why you are a great maker whenever you reply to others. It helps me a lot! Thanks a million. I really hopes things go back to normal soon in italy🙏🏻
Davide, can you tell me what actually the "essenza grassa" and "olio di line chinese" are?
Essenza Grassa is oxidised turpentine essence, boiled down to marmalade consistence. Very good refractive index that give a good contrast if applied as a ground or used as a softener in alcool varnish. But too soft for my taste and very slow drying if used in excessive amount.
I don't understand what you mean with Olio di line chinese, if you mean Olio di pino cinese, is an oil used to clean brushes (I do not like it but some use it) but if you mean Olio di lino cinese (linseed oil) I never heard of it, maybe refer to Tung oil, a siccative oil from China used for varnish making.
thank you, some say that essenza grassa is kinda polymerized turpentine sprit aged in the air or by giving it air to age it. Second yes it must be olio di pino chinese because wer were told that its used to clean the brushes. A translation mistake it seems. Why dont you like it? The teacher said it cleans the brushes very well and make them soft.
This is correct, but once you have polymerized the turpentine essence for some time (many months) you get oxygenated turpentine that is dense but still in a liquid form, at this stage you can boil it to speed up further polymerization to get the very dense consistency (not liquid or fluid) of "essenza grassa". If you cook further keeping the temperature up to about 280° for a long period you will turn it into a solid resin like colophony.
The process is potentially dangerous and need a lot of cautions, see Fulton terpene oil varnish for details, complete description available on the web.
I do not like chinese pine oil because of the oily residues that may remain on brushes and because I never clean my brushes but let them dry covered with a little varnish (alcool varnish, not oil) that protect them and keep the right shape of the hairs, my brushes treated this way are almost 20 years old and are still working fine. If I have to clean them for some reason (i.e. after use with oil varnish) i clean them thoroughly with solvent and after I give a wash with warm water and neutral soap (sapone di Marsiglia) that it's all I need.
Anyway chinese pine oil may work good too and is the method taught at the school by almost all teachers, but not by me. Simply I do not think it is worth the extra cost of buying it but is a quite diffused method of cleaning.
again, thank you very much.
Good morning from Greece. Teacher Davide I have two more questions. What varnish do you put on the neck (the point where the violinist has his hand). And if the varnish without color before that with the color (all over the violin) is applied with a brush and how many layers you apply.
Thank you very much.
Maestro Davide please save me!!!!!!! :)
The neck is not varnished, it is treated only with linseed oil applied with a rag, three or four passes in the space of a week, drying well between each pass. Of course it was first treated with casein and with mastic and turpentine like all the rest of the violin, but then these layers will be sanded down to the wood to remain only as impregnating agents. After this sanding I apply a little color, usually chicory extract or propolis, but many other water soluble colorants may work, or even some oil colours can be used. After the color I polish the surface with very fine sandpaper (Micromesh grit 3200) and then it's time for the final linseed oil treatment.
The violin varnish would not be suitable for the neck because it would wear out too easily making a mess, some use shellac which is more hard and moisture-resistant and works, but the feel of a slippery varnish surface is different from the more natural and silky one, tipical of the wood simply treated with a very thin layer of oil.
@@DavideSoraThanks master davide once again. I must say that the second part of my question was about the whole violin and not just the neck. Sorry i keep asking questions but it is my first violin and the questions are many. Everything I have achieved so far is from your videos. God bless you.
@@mesimerisnikos The layer of clear varnish before the colored one must be enough to build-up a uniform glossy coat. This may need 5 or 6 coats of alcohol varnish or 1 or 2 coats of oil varnish. In any case it is always a little different and depends on the dilution, you have to look if some opaque areas remain on the surface and in this case you have to put one or two more coats, or next time use a lower dilution to keep the number of coats lower. the dilution of the varnish must be as low as possible, just the right amount to allow good brushing
@@DavideSora Thank you Davide. Goodnight.