I live in abroad - Motorist don't care about cyclists anywhere.... :))) - In my opinion, the fault isn't with the motorist here it's with your roads - his wheels were not crossing the white lines.... The road simply isn't wide enough and is causing problems for everyone 6:15 - the driver was in the right.
Having a white line painted on the road does not make passing this close somehow safe. However, I agree that the roads are too narrow and I also agree that some police, (wrongly imo) treat this as lawful and safe. Thankfully, most don't see it this way though which is why the driver was fined and received 6 points. From a cyclist's perspective, this is bloody dangerous. Take care. JP
I agree with your view about these incidents but it should apply both ways and when a cyclist passes a motor vehicle they should maintain a 1.5m gap. I drive, cycle and ride a motorcycle and am very aware of bad drivers and riders (pedal and motor).
And why does a cyclist need to maintain a 1.5m gap? Are you afraid that a wind gust will make you lose your balance while driving your car and you will fall under the bike wheels?
@@24pavlo A vehicle might for the exact same reasons that a cyclist might need to veer..... Glass in road, kids kick a football into road (happened to car in front while I cycled behind. Had I squeezed between his right and traffic coming the other way, splat!), stupid woman flings her door open to get her kid out rather than make him exit in the pavement. The list is endless. The cyclist might also wobble etc for whatever reason.
That is an incredibly important point and I think you are right. The language should be changed. Thanks for picking up on that one and contributing to the discussion. Take care. Jay
@@Biking360 it's not just changing language, 'must' in the highway code signifies a law in all cases. You'd have to get it made law to be a 'must' and that would come with all kinds of other connotations, like roads being widened to allow 1.5m passing distance in all cases, all at the taxpayers expense of course. Cyclists as a community could always volunteer to pay road tax to ease that burden on the tax payer.
some points, no opinion: 1. the highway code is not the law. I only found this out recently when I read that using a mobile phone at the wheel has recently been made illegal. I thought it had been illegal for many years, but actually it was only against the highway code which doesn't guarantee that it's illegal. 2. It's very interesting that painting a line on an existing road to add a cycle lane makes drivers feel more at ease passing cyclists in that cycle lane in a similar way that you would feel more comfortable passing oncoming traffic on the other side of the road if there was a marking down the middle of the road than if there was not. Of course everyone can reason that it doesn't magically protect the cyclist, but something about the line clicks in the human brain and makes it feel different. 3. Painting a line in an existing road lane to make a cycle lane not only makes for a small cycle lane, but it also makes the road lane significantly narrower. Narrow lanes tend to slow traffic, but also give less room for error. 4. In that video, the truck goes into the cycle lane, that's obviously not right. Being generous, I would guess it's a case of passing in the road lane as many drivers would, and then seeing the bus on the other side with cars waiting to pull out from behind it and trying to give the oncoming traffic more room after passing the bike. It's a dilemma the driver's put themselves in by passing the bike anyway. 5. all this hostility between cyclists and motorists on the internet is silly because a. most cyclists are also motorists, and b. there is an obvious alternative, Thunderdome!
There are a lot of great points here I appreciate the contribution to the clip and the wider debate. As you correctly point out most of us are both cyclists and drivers' so hostility is stupid. However, sadly, as a cyclist, I can tell you that there are a lot of aggressive drivers out there who make cycling all frequently an unpleasant experience. Take care and I will see you at Thunderdome. Jay
I used to ride pedal bikes many years ago but what happened was that I started riding motorcycles and suddenly realised how vulnerable I was without power enough to keep with traffic. They were just bringing in cycle lanes here and there at the time and they were terrible then, and they are terrible now. I kept out of them! These cases show how cycle lanes can be a liability. For my view, as a motorcyclist, I don't regard the 'lane' issue as meaningful at all. Supposedly if I was riding up in the right side of an 'inside' lane and a car passes me to overtake on the motorway, they are passing 'a vulnerable road user' just a foot or two away. And at 70mph! But the fact is that traffic is 'relatively' (takes a breath and a laugh!) disciplined and predictable on motorways. Does not phase me much, but that is why you see motorcycles going fast on motorways, to keep ahead of the car traffic, both for the car traffic's needs and the motorcyclist. Safer to keep ahead of the traffic than let it catch you up. In the cases shown, there was no regard for the other traffic on the road, just 'plough on ahead' regardless. Feel bad for the cammer, a bad situation. I don't actually feel that a close pass is 'always' a problem if circumstances allow, but these clearly weren't, and the use of the cycle lane markings is absurd, it just squashes more people in to tighter spaces. Never really understood the rules on this. Next question, then, how does this apply to pedestrians on pavements? Do cars have to keep 1.5m away from pavements? People DO fall in to the road, so how about that, or the case of the lady where she was found guilty for pushing a cyclist on a path (it wasn't a shared path, and that was never presented in court, just someone saying it), not a murmur about the car driver who was closer than 1.5m to the pavement that hit the lady who swerved into the road. So, what about shared paths? Got to keep 1.5m away from the kerb there too? Confusing. Nothing is clear. Courts make stuff up, there is no way to know what bonkers conclusions they are going to come up with. That's my rant over, for now! ;)
So many great points and plenty I can relate to as I had superbikes for a lot of years. As far as giving space to pedestrians on pavements I'm honestly not sure of what the rules are. Plus, even if there are some no doubts as you say the police and magistrates will just make up their own depending on how they feel on the day. I think one of the biggest issues as you rightly point out at the end is consistency. I will touch on this in my next video which shows a crazy near miss sent in by a viewer from Hampshire. Take care. JP
I'm not sure it even matters that much that it is the law, what should matter is that if he/she clips you in a vehicle they could easily kill you. Its surely human decency to wait a mere few seconds and not risk taking someone's life. Just give some space your in a car, it's literally a small movement of your limbs to prevent something catastrophic happening.
You are the complete voice of reason and I couldn't agree more. Why does this have to be so hard and why can most other drivers not accept that cyclists and other vulnerable road users need space? I honestly think a mass educational drive is needed here. Take care and drive/ride safely. Jay
human decency goes both ways though, I'm sure that you're not guilty of this but I have encountered numerous cyclists on country roads that ride in groups of three deep with a huge queue of traffic behind them. I know that they are perfectly entitled to do this however it is the human decency that you mentioned that causes me in many cases to not do a thing that I'm entitled to, to make other peoples lives easier, do you know that that car you're holding up doesn't contain a kid with a broken leg, a pregnant woman or a guy with kidney stones, no you don't. Don't enforce your rights to be a prick, do think about others, remember that it's not your job to police the streets, I'd agree with you that the actual police don't do this effectively, but that's another conversation.
A good conversation. Well, I'm used to even smaller lanes, but then again, me and the cars, here in the Netherlands, have demonstrably grown up with them. Think there are 51 million bicycles and 17 million people here. On average everyone owns 3 bicycles. Moreover, it is typical Dutch not to stick to the rules. We are absolutely not like the English, where everyone follows the rules. Just look at Amsterdam. A madhouse with all the pedestrians, cyclists, trams and cars. I recently drove there by car and it took 8 eyes at the same time to navigate you through it. But back to the discussion. Furthermore, I honestly don't know what the standard width of a cycle path is. In the example of the video, the road is clearly too narrow for all this traffic
I agree that the road is way too narrow for a cycle path. I am guessing that the people who decided to install it had probably only ever seen a photo of a bike ad had never seen one in real life. I horrible road and a horrible example of town planning. Here in Thailand teh Thais tend ot be a little chaotic butit all workd and more importantly there is no anger and road rage. I donlt know why so many people in the UK are like this. It is ebarrassing quite frankly.
What most motorists fail to understand is that most cyclists are also motorists, whereas most motorists are not cyclists. Because of this, cyclists have a far better idea of what's safe and what's not. #simples
That is so well put and exactly what I think but have failed to put into words so succinctly. I will be stealing that one and using it in the future in some form or another. Take care and ride safe. Jay
Great follow up JP, As a cyclist I always cycle with caution irrespective of the cycle lane size. As a driver I never pass a cyclist unless its safe to do so. I can certainly see both sides of the argument but common sense should always take president. It seems that in many cases the cycle lanes are grey instead of white!! That's why I avoid roads whenever possible! Cheers Bob...
I often wonder if there was no painted line would the car driver actually give more space. The mentality of im in my lane and they are in their lane so all is good . Stupid really.
I believe that when the cycle lanes are very narrow, like in this video, we would be better off without them. I think part of the problem with a lot of these cycle lanes is that the people designing them have no idea what it is like to cycle on them or ride a bike in general. I'm guessing the only experience they have ever had with bikes is looking at pictures of them.
I cycle a couple of miles on my daily commute. Unlike many other cyclists, I wear lots of reflective hi-viz, and have flashing lights front and rear. No motorist can fail to see me. On sections with no cycle lane, they invariably hang back, and give plenty of room when passing. On the cycle lane sections, however, they're less cautious and will pass closer, so in my experience the painted line does alter their behaviour. I do think that the hi-viz and lights make a massive difference generally, and it would be interesting to read about other cyclists' experiences.
A bit of Common Sense applies; in your video the vehicle was too close for the speed it and you were going furthermore its lane discipline was poor. Quite frankly in slower moving traffic where there are dedicated lanes and dense traffic a crawl past might be acceptable. However, lane marking is at best guidance and within constricted streets not always feasible to follow. There is such a street near me where turn off a roundabout onto a street which is constricted such that the pavement is only 0.5m wide, so if there are pedestrians on it, I always take a wide berth crossing the central lane marker, which I can only do it if there is no oncoming traffic. In short, even if within my designated lane I am not what I would consider a safe distance from pedestrians.
One of the main issues with many of these roads. as you rightly comment, is that they are too narrow and poorly designed as a shared space. Some cyclists refer to these cycle lanes as 'death strips' since they are so dangerous for us to use. A major overhaul of roads is required but I realistically don't think that will happen. Councils and local governments are all lip service to creating better infrastructure and frankly seem to have little idea of what they are doing. Then it is down to all of us using the roads to try and make sense of it and do the best that we can. Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Take care. Jay
This doesn't sound accurate. If there's a central line marker then it'd be at least 2 metres from the pavement and you don't need to be that far across to miss pedestrians. Either way, I wouldn't cross the central line that's asking for trouble.
@@garymitchell5899 Google Earth is your friend: 51°47'29.53"N, 4°58'39.47"W Street view looking east up the hill with 'Clever Cloggs' on the Left. Although the lane marking is at least 2m, pedestrians on either side are right up to the road, not in the middle of a pavement. Notice too how the road narrows just past the 'Clever Cloggs' sign and how the red car in street view is right up to the pavement. Now if a child, walking with a parent, dashes out, it can only go into the road. It isn't helped by the fact that just up the road is a milk factory with articulated lorries turning in the road to get into it. Crossing the central line is not an issue, providing there is no oncoming traffic, and you indicate. If not just stop until it is safe to do so.
The cyclist should of used the main road and cycled in the centre. I catch loads of near misses on my camera and send them stright into the ploice. Car drivers need educated. Not fines or points just education to start with unless it was a stupid move a driver has done.
My work colleagues know now I ride with a camera and by magic they will go on the opposite lane when over taking. They have all moaned saying why don't I use the cycle lane? Am like I don't have too plus ill have to stop at every junction to cycle across the road which would add loads of time to my journey. But in fact they were unaware of the new cycle rules so I had them printed out and pinned up around my work. Great video!
I agree with all of this. I received a clip from a viewer which I will upload this week where the driving was so bad I called for a retest as the primary action. A lot of motorists here comment that we should stop causing friction by making these kinds of videos and using cameras to do exactly what you are doing. I could not disagree more as I think things are so bad this is exactly what we need to do. If you have any clips you would like me to feature on the channel I would be more than happy to take a look. My email is myfriendjonny@gmail.com Take care and of course ride safe.
My partner just came up with a great idea. Instead of a fine and points the driver should have to ride a bike for 6 months. Not sure how you could police that one though. 😂
Can you explain what the danger actually is? If the cyclist is in that lane and the car in another then I can't see how they are going to come into contact with each other
Sure and that is a very good question. When you ride a bike you are not always guaranteed to be able to hold a perfectly straight line. Things like debris in the road, potholes, and wind can cause you to swerve and change direction. Less experienced cyclists can also get startled by a vehicle approaching them so fast and so close causing panic and again causing a wobble or swerve. In any of these circumstances, the white line will be no help at all as it is not a true physical barrier. Even experienced pro cyclists, like the multi Toure De France champion, can get caught out. He was blown into a wall whilst training and suffered severe injuries as a result. All of these reasons are why it is imperative to get plenty of distance between you and overtaking traffic. At higher speeds and with larger vehicles it is even more important as you can get sucked into the vehicle if it is close enough. Inexperienced and nervous cyclists are very, very vulnerable to close passes but we as experienced cyclists are also in danger. It also makes the cycling experience thoroughly miserable and is a big factor in making many give up altogether. One cyclist in a previous video commented that he has now stopped cycling because of this very problem. Very sad. Thanks again for the question and I hope this explanation helps. Jay
SeanSean trolls cyclist posts and gives his Sh*te, ignore him, he has never ridden a bike i his life and spews bs. It was a close pass, the lane was the riders and the driver should give caution - REGARDLESS of the cycle lane - the LANE was the riders. The driver passed at SPEED, did not show any caution of the bus on the oncoming lane and the traffic moving to the centre line forcing the driver to move to the left slightly. If you notice that the cycle lane goes from solid line to broken, being broken means it is safe to enter for traffic also as there are cars parked in he left side and the chance of dooring the cyclist manoeuvred away (as it natural to do so). If the car even gave half of the MANDATORY 1.5m the passing car would have put itself in the opposite lane, so the driver choose to remain at speed and move nearer to the cyclist. Close Pass. ~Trooper
I agree with you 100% but unfortunately, there are UK police forces who like Sean Sean have a weird and ridiculous interpretation of the law. These people are dangerous. Plus, frankly, the more I see of the police refusing to prosecute when presented with clear cases of close passes and dangerous driving the more I consider them to be incompetent.
@@Biking360 This is correct, I reported a few in Redbridge, we are covered by the Met, I had a very interesting exchange with a reviewer of the footage and when I pointed it why its a carless driver and asked it to be reviewed by a senior member or traffic devision it was refused and I was chastised for swearing - I was approaching a mini roundabout to be overtaken by a car, doing over the 20mph on to oncoming traffic and did a left in front of me. I have one gone in recently and I am about to pounce on the Met by sending a letter in to Sir Mark Rowley as I commute in everyone sent in for close pass, left hook, using the phone has been ignored and no action taken by Redbridge. ~Trooper
Yet where I live in a rural area, the summer is plagued by licra lovers pedalling away happily along lanes where there's no possibility whatever of passing with even a half meter clearance, even cars arriving from the opposite direction are passing just inches from their handlebars.. If cyclists are uncomfortable sharing roads with the vehicles the roads are designed and maintained for, I suggest that they leave the Wannabee Tour de France imitations in the garage and treat themselves to off-road mountain-bikes.
Conversely, if you are not happy to share the road with others who are completely within the law to use them as they do (roads are not just made for motor vehicles) then maybe take a bus?
@@davebarrett2355 And what sort of roads and maintenance would be available to cyclists if there was no motorised traffic.. you think it would all be funded with a bicycle tyre tax. ? People have been cycling around this country for 150 years without whinging.. Snowflake generation just about sums this new lot up perfectly.. try growing a pair.
I was born in 1961 so I think I missed the snowflake generation by some way. And your final comment is of course ridiculous. Riding on a bike should not be about how strong and tough you are. Is this what yo want to tell young children growing up about cycling?
I believe what Sean Sean was referring to, which I reference in the summary, is the interpretation by some police forces and magistrates of this law meaning such an incidence not being a close pass. It is not case law as such but I get where he is coming from. it is still absolute insanity that anyone would think that a white line painted on the road somehow makes you safe though. The people making these kinds of ridiculous decisions should be immediately sacked.
I got run over by a driver last September and the attending traffic officer had a conversation with me whilst on a spinal board and literally said. I propose to deal with this by way of a driver awareness course. FFS ride a bicycle and you are the lowest of the low, talk about unconscious bias.
There are many examples of very narrow bike lanes, I felt safer without them. If they can't put lane at the correct width don't put one. One thing not mentioned is if a cyclist is in the cycle lane at its centre then the distance of the cyclists shoulder is less than 0.5 metre to the white line.
As you say there is no need to use these lanes and I too would advise cyclists no to. I regard them as "reserved space" to use when traffic is backed-up rather than having to guess whether to filter on the outside or inside of the stationery traffic.
I agree though I have had cyclists express concern of then having to potentially suffer punishment passes as a result of choosing a safer line and consequently 'holding up' traffic. It puts cyclists in a horrible position when these kinds of cycle lanes are in existence. They need to be taken away but then councils can't boast about how they are improving cycling infrastructure in their areas
@@Biking360 These lines make it worse, if you stray outside them you get treated worse than if they aren't there. You should be at least 1m out from parked cars, a bike is at least 50cm wide, so with 1.5m clearance, that lane should be at least 3m wide, i.e. a full lane - which is how much space they tell car drivers to give you in the HC. There's even a helpful diagram for the hard of thinking.
Motorists need to be 1,5m away from THE LINE, not the cyclist. Why can't they simply overtake cyclists the same way they would any other vehicle. Why do they always think it is ok to squeeze through any vague gap?
They squeeze through because they have no concept of the danger involved and the law is too often not properly applied to prosecute these types of close passes when they come to light. We thefore have to keep calling out motorists, the police and magistrates for their incompetency whenever we see it. Take care. Jay
@@Biking360 For context, your videos about actual cycling and cycle-related topics were far more interesting. This kind of overanalysis of other peoples' driving and grassing fellow citizens up for relatively minor infringements is depressing - it's a judgemental mentality blighting all walks of life these days. I do hope those of you fixated on this behaviour will find more positive endeavours.
I think the white line makes it less safe for a cyclist
You hit the nail on the head.
I live in abroad - Motorist don't care about cyclists anywhere.... :))) - In my opinion, the fault isn't with the motorist here it's with your roads - his wheels were not crossing the white lines.... The road simply isn't wide enough and is causing problems for everyone 6:15 - the driver was in the right.
Having a white line painted on the road does not make passing this close somehow safe. However, I agree that the roads are too narrow and I also agree that some police, (wrongly imo) treat this as lawful and safe. Thankfully, most don't see it this way though which is why the driver was fined and received 6 points. From a cyclist's perspective, this is bloody dangerous. Take care. JP
Cyclists should be given a minimum of 1.5M, regardless.
The driver deserved a ban imho.
Extremely dangerous, reckless behaviour.
Agreed. Trying to persuade a hardcore of drives, police and magistrates of that is now where the battle lay. Take care and ride safe.
I agree with your view about these incidents but it should apply both ways and when a cyclist passes a motor vehicle they should maintain a 1.5m gap. I drive, cycle and ride a motorcycle and am very aware of bad drivers and riders (pedal and motor).
And why does a cyclist need to maintain a 1.5m gap? Are you afraid that a wind gust will make you lose your balance while driving your car and you will fall under the bike wheels?
@@24pavlo
A vehicle might for the exact same reasons that a cyclist might need to veer.....
Glass in road, kids kick a football into road (happened to car in front while I cycled behind. Had I squeezed between his right and traffic coming the other way, splat!), stupid woman flings her door open to get her kid out rather than make him exit in the pavement. The list is endless.
The cyclist might also wobble etc for whatever reason.
Is there confusion as rule 163 says "as a guide:" not you must give 1.5m?
That is an incredibly important point and I think you are right. The language should be changed. Thanks for picking up on that one and contributing to the discussion. Take care. Jay
@@Biking360 it's not just changing language, 'must' in the highway code signifies a law in all cases. You'd have to get it made law to be a 'must' and that would come with all kinds of other connotations, like roads being widened to allow 1.5m passing distance in all cases, all at the taxpayers expense of course. Cyclists as a community could always volunteer to pay road tax to ease that burden on the tax payer.
some points, no opinion:
1. the highway code is not the law. I only found this out recently when I read that using a mobile phone at the wheel has recently been made illegal. I thought it had been illegal for many years, but actually it was only against the highway code which doesn't guarantee that it's illegal.
2. It's very interesting that painting a line on an existing road to add a cycle lane makes drivers feel more at ease passing cyclists in that cycle lane in a similar way that you would feel more comfortable passing oncoming traffic on the other side of the road if there was a marking down the middle of the road than if there was not. Of course everyone can reason that it doesn't magically protect the cyclist, but something about the line clicks in the human brain and makes it feel different.
3. Painting a line in an existing road lane to make a cycle lane not only makes for a small cycle lane, but it also makes the road lane significantly narrower. Narrow lanes tend to slow traffic, but also give less room for error.
4. In that video, the truck goes into the cycle lane, that's obviously not right. Being generous, I would guess it's a case of passing in the road lane as many drivers would, and then seeing the bus on the other side with cars waiting to pull out from behind it and trying to give the oncoming traffic more room after passing the bike. It's a dilemma the driver's put themselves in by passing the bike anyway.
5. all this hostility between cyclists and motorists on the internet is silly because a. most cyclists are also motorists, and b. there is an obvious alternative, Thunderdome!
There are a lot of great points here I appreciate the contribution to the clip and the wider debate. As you correctly point out most of us are both cyclists and drivers' so hostility is stupid. However, sadly, as a cyclist, I can tell you that there are a lot of aggressive drivers out there who make cycling all frequently an unpleasant experience. Take care and I will see you at Thunderdome. Jay
I used to ride pedal bikes many years ago but what happened was that I started riding motorcycles and suddenly realised how vulnerable I was without power enough to keep with traffic. They were just bringing in cycle lanes here and there at the time and they were terrible then, and they are terrible now. I kept out of them! These cases show how cycle lanes can be a liability. For my view, as a motorcyclist, I don't regard the 'lane' issue as meaningful at all. Supposedly if I was riding up in the right side of an 'inside' lane and a car passes me to overtake on the motorway, they are passing 'a vulnerable road user' just a foot or two away. And at 70mph! But the fact is that traffic is 'relatively' (takes a breath and a laugh!) disciplined and predictable on motorways. Does not phase me much, but that is why you see motorcycles going fast on motorways, to keep ahead of the car traffic, both for the car traffic's needs and the motorcyclist. Safer to keep ahead of the traffic than let it catch you up. In the cases shown, there was no regard for the other traffic on the road, just 'plough on ahead' regardless. Feel bad for the cammer, a bad situation. I don't actually feel that a close pass is 'always' a problem if circumstances allow, but these clearly weren't, and the use of the cycle lane markings is absurd, it just squashes more people in to tighter spaces. Never really understood the rules on this. Next question, then, how does this apply to pedestrians on pavements? Do cars have to keep 1.5m away from pavements? People DO fall in to the road, so how about that, or the case of the lady where she was found guilty for pushing a cyclist on a path (it wasn't a shared path, and that was never presented in court, just someone saying it), not a murmur about the car driver who was closer than 1.5m to the pavement that hit the lady who swerved into the road. So, what about shared paths? Got to keep 1.5m away from the kerb there too? Confusing. Nothing is clear. Courts make stuff up, there is no way to know what bonkers conclusions they are going to come up with. That's my rant over, for now! ;)
So many great points and plenty I can relate to as I had superbikes for a lot of years. As far as giving space to pedestrians on pavements I'm honestly not sure of what the rules are. Plus, even if there are some no doubts as you say the police and magistrates will just make up their own depending on how they feel on the day. I think one of the biggest issues as you rightly point out at the end is consistency. I will touch on this in my next video which shows a crazy near miss sent in by a viewer from Hampshire. Take care. JP
.. cycle lanes no longer meet the distance requirement, welcome to backwards together-nation #sheeple
Cycle lanes like these are only there to make councils feel warm and fuzzy inside not cycling safer.
I'm not sure it even matters that much that it is the law, what should matter is that if he/she clips you in a vehicle they could easily kill you. Its surely human decency to wait a mere few seconds and not risk taking someone's life. Just give some space your in a car, it's literally a small movement of your limbs to prevent something catastrophic happening.
You are the complete voice of reason and I couldn't agree more. Why does this have to be so hard and why can most other drivers not accept that cyclists and other vulnerable road users need space? I honestly think a mass educational drive is needed here. Take care and drive/ride safely. Jay
human decency goes both ways though, I'm sure that you're not guilty of this but I have encountered numerous cyclists on country roads that ride in groups of three deep with a huge queue of traffic behind them. I know that they are perfectly entitled to do this however it is the human decency that you mentioned that causes me in many cases to not do a thing that I'm entitled to, to make other peoples lives easier, do you know that that car you're holding up doesn't contain a kid with a broken leg, a pregnant woman or a guy with kidney stones, no you don't. Don't enforce your rights to be a prick, do think about others, remember that it's not your job to police the streets, I'd agree with you that the actual police don't do this effectively, but that's another conversation.
A good conversation. Well, I'm used to even smaller lanes, but then again, me and the cars, here in the Netherlands, have demonstrably grown up with them. Think there are 51 million bicycles and 17 million people here. On average everyone owns 3 bicycles. Moreover, it is typical Dutch not to stick to the rules. We are absolutely not like the English, where everyone follows the rules.
Just look at Amsterdam. A madhouse with all the pedestrians, cyclists, trams and cars. I recently drove there by car and it took 8 eyes at the same time to navigate you through it.
But back to the discussion. Furthermore, I honestly don't know what the standard width of a cycle path is. In the example of the video, the road is clearly too narrow for all this traffic
I agree that the road is way too narrow for a cycle path. I am guessing that the people who decided to install it had probably only ever seen a photo of a bike ad had never seen one in real life. I horrible road and a horrible example of town planning. Here in Thailand teh Thais tend ot be a little chaotic butit all workd and more importantly there is no anger and road rage. I donlt know why so many people in the UK are like this. It is ebarrassing quite frankly.
@@Biking360 a horrible road planning indeed 😞
That white line does have a magical property. With one wave of its sparkly paint, it can change the interpretation of the law.
Apparently so!
What most motorists fail to understand is that most cyclists are also motorists, whereas most motorists are not cyclists. Because of this, cyclists have a far better idea of what's safe and what's not. #simples
That is so well put and exactly what I think but have failed to put into words so succinctly. I will be stealing that one and using it in the future in some form or another. Take care and ride safe. Jay
Great follow up JP, As a cyclist I always cycle with caution irrespective of the cycle lane size. As a driver I never pass a cyclist unless its safe to do so. I can certainly see both sides of the argument but common sense should always take president.
It seems that in many cases the cycle lanes are grey instead of white!!
That's why I avoid roads whenever possible!
Cheers
Bob...
I often wonder if there was no painted line would the car driver actually give more space. The mentality of im in my lane and they are in their lane so all is good . Stupid really.
I believe that when the cycle lanes are very narrow, like in this video, we would be better off without them. I think part of the problem with a lot of these cycle lanes is that the people designing them have no idea what it is like to cycle on them or ride a bike in general. I'm guessing the only experience they have ever had with bikes is looking at pictures of them.
Tick box exercise by people who don't cycle
I cycle a couple of miles on my daily commute. Unlike many other cyclists, I wear lots of reflective hi-viz, and have flashing lights front and rear. No motorist can fail to see me. On sections with no cycle lane, they invariably hang back, and give plenty of room when passing. On the cycle lane sections, however, they're less cautious and will pass closer, so in my experience the painted line does alter their behaviour. I do think that the hi-viz and lights make a massive difference generally, and it would be interesting to read about other cyclists' experiences.
A bit of Common Sense applies; in your video the vehicle was too close for the speed it and you were going furthermore its lane discipline was poor. Quite frankly in slower moving traffic where there are dedicated lanes and dense traffic a crawl past might be acceptable. However, lane marking is at best guidance and within constricted streets not always feasible to follow. There is such a street near me where turn off a roundabout onto a street which is constricted such that the pavement is only 0.5m wide, so if there are pedestrians on it, I always take a wide berth crossing the central lane marker, which I can only do it if there is no oncoming traffic. In short, even if within my designated lane I am not what I would consider a safe distance from pedestrians.
One of the main issues with many of these roads. as you rightly comment, is that they are too narrow and poorly designed as a shared space. Some cyclists refer to these cycle lanes as 'death strips' since they are so dangerous for us to use. A major overhaul of roads is required but I realistically don't think that will happen. Councils and local governments are all lip service to creating better infrastructure and frankly seem to have little idea of what they are doing. Then it is down to all of us using the roads to try and make sense of it and do the best that we can. Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Take care. Jay
This doesn't sound accurate. If there's a central line marker then it'd be at least 2 metres from the pavement and you don't need to be that far across to miss pedestrians. Either way, I wouldn't cross the central line that's asking for trouble.
@@garymitchell5899 Google Earth is your friend: 51°47'29.53"N, 4°58'39.47"W Street view looking east up the hill with 'Clever Cloggs' on the Left. Although the lane marking is at least 2m, pedestrians on either side are right up to the road, not in the middle of a pavement. Notice too how the road narrows just past the 'Clever Cloggs' sign and how the red car in street view is right up to the pavement. Now if a child, walking with a parent, dashes out, it can only go into the road. It isn't helped by the fact that just up the road is a milk factory with articulated lorries turning in the road to get into it.
Crossing the central line is not an issue, providing there is no oncoming traffic, and you indicate. If not just stop until it is safe to do so.
The cyclist should of used the main road and cycled in the centre. I catch loads of near misses on my camera and send them stright into the ploice. Car drivers need educated. Not fines or points just education to start with unless it was a stupid move a driver has done.
My work colleagues know now I ride with a camera and by magic they will go on the opposite lane when over taking. They have all moaned saying why don't I use the cycle lane? Am like I don't have too plus ill have to stop at every junction to cycle across the road which would add loads of time to my journey. But in fact they were unaware of the new cycle rules so I had them printed out and pinned up around my work. Great video!
I agree with all of this. I received a clip from a viewer which I will upload this week where the driving was so bad I called for a retest as the primary action. A lot of motorists here comment that we should stop causing friction by making these kinds of videos and using cameras to do exactly what you are doing. I could not disagree more as I think things are so bad this is exactly what we need to do. If you have any clips you would like me to feature on the channel I would be more than happy to take a look. My email is myfriendjonny@gmail.com Take care and of course ride safe.
My partner just came up with a great idea. Instead of a fine and points the driver should have to ride a bike for 6 months. Not sure how you could police that one though. 😂
Brilliant :)
You were fine can't see the problem..
Oh Lord!
Can you explain what the danger actually is? If the cyclist is in that lane and the car in another then I can't see how they are going to come into contact with each other
Sure and that is a very good question. When you ride a bike you are not always guaranteed to be able to hold a perfectly straight line. Things like debris in the road, potholes, and wind can cause you to swerve and change direction. Less experienced cyclists can also get startled by a vehicle approaching them so fast and so close causing panic and again causing a wobble or swerve. In any of these circumstances, the white line will be no help at all as it is not a true physical barrier. Even experienced pro cyclists, like the multi Toure De France champion, can get caught out. He was blown into a wall whilst training and suffered severe injuries as a result. All of these reasons are why it is imperative to get plenty of distance between you and overtaking traffic. At higher speeds and with larger vehicles it is even more important as you can get sucked into the vehicle if it is close enough. Inexperienced and nervous cyclists are very, very vulnerable to close passes but we as experienced cyclists are also in danger. It also makes the cycling experience thoroughly miserable and is a big factor in making many give up altogether. One cyclist in a previous video commented that he has now stopped cycling because of this very problem. Very sad. Thanks again for the question and I hope this explanation helps. Jay
SeanSean trolls cyclist posts and gives his Sh*te, ignore him, he has never ridden a bike i his life and spews bs.
It was a close pass, the lane was the riders and the driver should give caution - REGARDLESS of the cycle lane - the LANE was the riders. The driver passed at SPEED, did not show any caution of the bus on the oncoming lane and the traffic moving to the centre line forcing the driver to move to the left slightly. If you notice that the cycle lane goes from solid line to broken, being broken means it is safe to enter for traffic also as there are cars parked in he left side and the chance of dooring the cyclist manoeuvred away (as it natural to do so). If the car even gave half of the MANDATORY 1.5m the passing car would have put itself in the opposite lane, so the driver choose to remain at speed and move nearer to the cyclist. Close Pass. ~Trooper
I agree with you 100% but unfortunately, there are UK police forces who like Sean Sean have a weird and ridiculous interpretation of the law. These people are dangerous. Plus, frankly, the more I see of the police refusing to prosecute when presented with clear cases of close passes and dangerous driving the more I consider them to be incompetent.
@@Biking360 This is correct, I reported a few in Redbridge, we are covered by the Met, I had a very interesting exchange with a reviewer of the footage and when I pointed it why its a carless driver and asked it to be reviewed by a senior member or traffic devision it was refused and I was chastised for swearing - I was approaching a mini roundabout to be overtaken by a car, doing over the 20mph on to oncoming traffic and did a left in front of me. I have one gone in recently and I am about to pounce on the Met by sending a letter in to Sir Mark Rowley as I commute in everyone sent in for close pass, left hook, using the phone has been ignored and no action taken by Redbridge. ~Trooper
Yet where I live in a rural area, the summer is plagued by licra lovers pedalling away happily along lanes where there's no possibility whatever of passing with even a half meter clearance, even cars arriving from the opposite direction are passing just inches from their handlebars.. If cyclists are uncomfortable sharing roads with the vehicles the roads are designed and maintained for, I suggest that they leave the Wannabee Tour de France imitations in the garage and treat themselves to off-road mountain-bikes.
Does that feel better?
Conversely, if you are not happy to share the road with others who are completely within the law to use them as they do (roads are not just made for motor vehicles) then maybe take a bus?
@@davebarrett2355 And what sort of roads and maintenance would be available to cyclists if there was no motorised traffic.. you think it would all be funded with a bicycle tyre tax. ?
People have been cycling around this country for 150 years without whinging.. Snowflake generation just about sums this new lot up perfectly.. try growing a pair.
I was born in 1961 so I think I missed the snowflake generation by some way. And your final comment is of course ridiculous. Riding on a bike should not be about how strong and tough you are. Is this what yo want to tell young children growing up about cycling?
I call BS from Sean Sean, Where's this case law?
I believe what Sean Sean was referring to, which I reference in the summary, is the interpretation by some police forces and magistrates of this law meaning such an incidence not being a close pass. It is not case law as such but I get where he is coming from. it is still absolute insanity that anyone would think that a white line painted on the road somehow makes you safe though. The people making these kinds of ridiculous decisions should be immediately sacked.
I got run over by a driver last September and the attending traffic officer had a conversation with me whilst on a spinal board and literally said. I propose to deal with this by way of a driver awareness course. FFS ride a bicycle and you are the lowest of the low, talk about unconscious bias.
Sadly, the 'always looking for trounle' Jeremy Vine gets all cyclists with a GoPro a bad name. I do see as much bad cycling as bad driving.
Do you think this was dangerous and a close pass?
There are many examples of very narrow bike lanes, I felt safer without them. If they can't put lane at the correct width don't put one. One thing not mentioned is if a cyclist is in the cycle lane at its centre then the distance of the cyclists shoulder is less than 0.5 metre to the white line.
True on all counts. Take care and of course, ride safe.
As you say there is no need to use these lanes and I too would advise cyclists no to. I regard them as "reserved space" to use when traffic is backed-up rather than having to guess whether to filter on the outside or inside of the stationery traffic.
I agree though I have had cyclists express concern of then having to potentially suffer punishment passes as a result of choosing a safer line and consequently 'holding up' traffic. It puts cyclists in a horrible position when these kinds of cycle lanes are in existence. They need to be taken away but then councils can't boast about how they are improving cycling infrastructure in their areas
@@Biking360 These lines make it worse, if you stray outside them you get treated worse than if they aren't there. You should be at least 1m out from parked cars, a bike is at least 50cm wide, so with 1.5m clearance, that lane should be at least 3m wide, i.e. a full lane - which is how much space they tell car drivers to give you in the HC. There's even a helpful diagram for the hard of thinking.
That's why cyclists call them murder strips because it seems to give drivists csrte blanche to drive like that and why cyclists don't want to use them
I've never heard that expression but it fits perfectly. Take care and ride safe. JP
UK police incompetent ..... surely not????
Motorists need to be 1,5m away from THE LINE, not the cyclist. Why can't they simply overtake cyclists the same way they would any other vehicle. Why do they always think it is ok to squeeze through any vague gap?
They squeeze through because they have no concept of the danger involved and the law is too often not properly applied to prosecute these types of close passes when they come to light. We thefore have to keep calling out motorists, the police and magistrates for their incompetency whenever we see it. Take care. Jay
Cars should not be allowed to pass cyclists.
Get a life Kevin
Thank you and have a wonderful day :)
What a bore.
Thank you so much and have a lovely day :)
@@Biking360 For context, your videos about actual cycling and cycle-related topics were far more interesting. This kind of overanalysis of other peoples' driving and grassing fellow citizens up for relatively minor infringements is depressing - it's a judgemental mentality blighting all walks of life these days. I do hope those of you fixated on this behaviour will find more positive endeavours.