I can't believe you said those things about those things! My mates cousins next door neighbours father inlaw had a big huffy boy on his V8 and it was by all accounts super awesome. Or so i'm told. Also i saw a video with one and it made my thing go schwiing.
just bought a centrifugal supercharger for my xr8, turbo will make more power, but the simplicity of literally bolting it to the front of my engine makes it a good option
Hmmm. 65mm pulley(standard) change for 72mm+ Bigger pulley more instant power without the *Turd'bo* lag. No plumbing for coolant or oil required. Basically just belt and fuel pump! Cheapest and easiest mod in automotive history.
Hey guys, another great video, thanks! I fitted a Rotrex C38 Centrifugal Charger to my Euro BMW M3 (3.0l) a few years ago. I kept it on standard internals, so needed a good and reliable method of governing boost. For a finish I ended up using a Tial wastegate (yes, you read that right) just after the compressor outlet to bleed off boost. With this setup, I also have the advantage of being able to use a smaller pulley to get to max boost lower in the rev range. Why not just turbo it? Well I don't have the skills (or desire) to race a laggy pig and its a bit of a PITA to fit a turbo on a RHD M3 of that era. Ultimately the setup works really well, it has been extremely reliable and it's really nice/predictable to drive... which all adds up to relatively pain free motorsport!
Love your channel. I had a 2004 L67 Calais. Swapped to a smaller pulley for extra boost, water to air intercooled, roller rockers, otr intake, pacemakers, 2 into 1 exhaust, plugs and a tune....reliable and fast....brilliant.
Back in the day I owned a 1985 Atkinson truck with an GM 8V92T Diesel engine. It had a huge turbo on top of the blower. It also had a water to air cooler under the blower so its nothing new. You explained it well.
As per usual Al is spot on. The only aspect I'd expand upon is that in some forms of circuit racing twin screw is quite popular because it provides a very linear response naturally which is much easier to tune around, versus needing dynamic traction control strategies or boost by gear. On a road course, and extra 10% power mid corner isn't always wanted more than predictable linear response.
The only thing I feel is worth noting is, modern engine management solutions often have the ability to limit boost on launch, making turbochargers suitable in those high-output drag applications. Obviously Al and Woody are already hip to that, but _RUclips Comments!!_ Great summary on the tech boys
Gail Banks said just what you did. he mentioned its the ability to get dense air into the engine that matters. it takes boost and inter cooling to get that done.
@Stupid I think you're confusing evaporation cooling of fuel with types of superchargers. To pump or compress air without increasing the temperature of it is defying physics. Likewise there is always a trade-off with cooling the air using an inter-cooler and compromising flow/pressure. In certain applications (low boost, rich air/fuel mixture, methanol), intercooling may be deemed unnecessary. Plenty of high performance roots blowers are also intercooled, usually with a water-to-air intercooler. The reason turbos are popular in the OEM market is because they are small, reasonably inexpensive, and can be easily packaged into different engine bays and onto existing (NA) manifold designs. Roots style blowers are large, heavy, expensive and difficult to package into a cramped engine bay hence why you only see them on cars with very large V8 engines with very large engine bays. Centrifugal superchargers are not popular for OEMs because a peaky power band is difficult to market to the general public.
May I suggest "This Old Tony". An excellent channel, the guy isn't full of himself, and is fun to boot. He's got a few welding vids explaining stuff - and not saying "this IS how you do it" while he's at it. Basically demonstrating options you have. He's not just a welder, he does a lot of machining and stuff and silly little projects. Worth checking out.
Neffers I’ve seen all the videos from VL to Kingswood countless times and every quick tech in between. However my request was to do a single quick tech on TIG welding for automotive applications. Not a whole series. Tom
Would love to see a quick tech on intercoolers; A2A, W2A, the effect of runner length / diameter, etc. I think Al would have great insight especially given his work on the Coyoda GT86 turbo setup. And it's completely on-brand, a turbo without an intercooler is rare to see.
Gale Banks was discussing turbos and superchargers; they are all air density increasers. its easy to cram more fuel in, more air,when you get it & how much heat your adding to it is the hard part.
I've had a turbo car and a positive displacement supercharger car, both 4 cylinder FWD engines. The turbo ran 15psi and was quick and fun but only after 2800rpm. The eaton was instant power. It made 1st gear a challenge as it would destroy the tires from idle. Positive displacement made 10psi as soon at the throttle was fully opened at ANY rpm.The downside was it would eventually stretch the belt and I'd have to retighten it. Both units have advantages and disadvantages. Sizing for both is important.
If you want exotic, I used to have a Mazda with a Comprex supercharger, that used exhaust pulses to _directly_ pressurize the intake charge. Pretty wild. Also expect a lot of VW fanbois incoming with their scroll superchargers ;)
Years ago, I pulled a pressure wave supercharger off a Mazda bongo diesel van at "pick a part" with the intention of using it on a small cc 4 cylinder build. Never got around to it but thought it was a weird design being crank and exhaust driven and would have loved to have seen it in operation.
If you want even more exotic, a bottle of compressed air run though a somewhat complex sensor array, powering your engine just for the weight of the air tank. :D
have always been a turbo man. driven a few centrifugal supercharged cars and was never a fan and positive displacement supercharged v6's lick massive balls and in most cases do drive better without it but after driving an car with an LS3 and harrop 2300 runnin about 14psi i've gotta say the torque is addictive af.. so much so i'm pretty sure thats the route i want to go with my SS now.. perfect for a street LS. no doubt i could make more power with a turbo but being realistic for a street car a turbo 6 litre LS even on 9-10psi boost makes stupid power that you can very rarely even try and use on the street and when ya do it doesn't do anything anyway cause ya just peel tyres so maybe i'm just getting old or something but i don't see the point anymore. 3/4's of that power with big torque right off idle where ya can actually feel it is fun as on the street. i still say on anything other than a V8 its must be turbo'd but. supercharged 4's and 6's= aids
4:21 Al shoots and scores: ONEHUNDREDANDEIGHTYYYYYYYYYY, for that evil halfsecond smile. You forgot to mention, for another coule of extra comments, the roots supercharger in the V is crab for the reason that they have recently "invented" -the wheel again- the HotV again with turbochargers between the banks for temperature controll.
I think roots style blowers actually go the other way Al and push the air OUT from the centre around the outside of the casing and down rather than through the middle. You could have mentioned the "litre" or capacity of the roots/whipple style superchargers and how that side of it works too.. good video 👍
Tai Johnsen it’s a big subject and a short video. Probs should have been more specific about the types of blowers that are inefficient, ie Detroit blowers.
Positive Displacement Air Pump is even older the Roots, was developed in a larger, slower moving form, as air pumps for deep mineshafts, being able to get clean air to workers keeps them productive. The centrifugal layout comes from steam turbines used to convert movement of high pressure steam in to movement of a drive shaft (hence Shaft HP rating of turbines and jet engines) to drive electric power generator, and, yes, the exhaust side of a turbo charger can drive an alternator,... And can be scaled up to Snowy River Scheme power station sized.
There are people using bypass valves on centrifugal superchargers, not unlike using a wastegate. Pulley it to make your peak boost at mid RPM, then bleed off the rest as you rev towards redline.
It works really well, Snappy performance and massive high end flow. depending on your application, remember to plumb your wastegate reference line to manifold pressure, not just interstage pressure. And remember to keep your blowoff valve between the supercharger and the throttlebody. You can pulley your blower up and down depending on your launch traction. And you can set the wastegate for ultimate target power. Its a really nice setup
@@beajayparker247 no waste gate on my old set up, just properly sized housing. Was pushing just over 700 kpa (around 100psi)and yes it's a 12.7 litre diesel lol
Al, I agree with you most of the time. I will say turbos are a better way to go, do to the ability to tune when you use that boost. Although; you cannot completely discard superchargers. Top fuel drag racing cannot be wrong. Producing 15 to 20 thousand horsepower and using a supercharger to assist with that. I believe if they could benefit from turbochargers over the supercharger they would have done so long ago.
Keith Hache cos everyone with a Polo G40 put a Ko3 turbo on instead. The G-ladders need a rebuild every 20k miles or so. I once watched one blow some sort of seal and spray oil all over a dyno roller. Good times
I want to see a Turbo Yoda and Stevie Fast chat/podcast. One hates turbos and mocks them but absolutely knows how to go fast with supercharger or nitrous., the other is Turbo Yoda ferchristsakes. Would be amazing content.
jsmi4190 Yeah top fuelers have over 7,000 hp and use blowers. Hmmm, weird, not one has a turbo or centrifugal supercharger and they are the fastest cars in the world.
@@ardyshane23 thats because class regulations say they MUST use one. top fuel engines are HUGE theire superchargers ARE HUGE and the airfuel mix is practically on the verge of hydrolocking the engine as there is so much fuel and the air is so compressed that it almost gets to liquid state. those engine run more compression than any diesel use literally more current than a welder for the spark. and run only up to about 70psi psi of boost. compare that to sport compact where a 4 cylider is making over 100PSI of boost and producing over 2000HP from 2l of displacement instead of 7000 from 8.1l. based purely on a hp per CC or HP by dispalacement turbo yodas statement is TRUE hell at summer nats a 6 cylinder made of 2000hp on 3l of displacment with less boost than a top fuel so again using top fuel and their use of blowers isn't a good example of the pinacle of power and efficiency. because if they could use turbos they would and they'd make even more power due to elimination of the parasitic power loss a supercharger adds. which btw it takes up to 700HP to just turn the supercharger in a top fuel
kyle hubner I am not doubting what you are saying to some degree, but I do believe if it was possible to make more power than a current top fuel race motor, somebody would do it and put it on a track. In my research nobody has. There are also the laws of diminishing returns. Sure 2000hp out of a small motor is great, but what does it take to get 2500 or 3000, and that’s still light years away from the power top fuelers make. My only complaint about this video anyway was the attitude towards roots blowers, like they are pointless. All forced induction options have a place, and all are fun and make power. I agree some are more efficient than others obviously. I like them all, but I like NA the best.
I fitted a roots to my diesel car, before it made 70.2hp at 6000rpm. After it made 72hp at 4000rpm. I also don't recommend inlet temperatures around 100 Celsius because it's the equivalent of pouring molasses in the arctic. I had fun though, so that's what counts. It was a 2 lobe roots from a March Superturbo!
Personally, the two forced induction systems I'm most impressed by are the MGU-H in f1 (energy deployment / regen directly into / from the turbo shaft) and Koenigsegg's compressed air powered 'anti-lag' system in the Jesko. Here's hoping they both make their way into production cars.
I have an S5, my first supercharged car. The supercharger matches the car well in not only the linearity of the power on a fat pig of a car, but the attitude as well.
My ex boss had a s5 b8 wagon, it was around 440 hp . The original german owner had it go through abt on the way out of the factory. It was a pretty sweet daily.
My dad used to work on shackleton's in the raf in the mid 80s had 4 rolls Royce Griffin engines all had twin speed superchargers fitted. The superchargers where all bigger the a modern 4 cylinder engines.
Maybe next Quick Tech could cover air to water intercoolers and a comparison between the air to air ones? Or maybe the guys of MCM could to some comparison tests like they did with the painted and non-painted intercoolers?
To me its simple: V8 or V6: goes good with a roots type supercharger. 4 and 6 cylinder inline engine: goes good with centreifucal supercharger or a Turbo.
The Toyota factory supercharger kit for the 3rz 4 cyl engine is cool for 4wds. It's outrageously easy to fit as it just replaces half the intake plenum. Easy afternoon job. Works with existing intake, snorkels etc. No need to touch the exhaust. Kit is 4psi on stock system or 8psi pulley with fuel mods. Doesn't make bulk power but great for off-road.
One way to make a centrifical supercharger work better is to overdrive it with a smaller pulley so it makes the desired boost at a lower engine RPM, but then have a wastegate to vent the excess pressure to prevent the engine from kabooming. Not as efficient, but fixes the issue of not making enough boost.
My opinion when it comes to turbo vs other: Turbo is superior because it runs on waste, and does not (theoretically) max out, the others steal a certain amount of HP just to be driven and has a limited boost just because of that. With that being said, I totally agree that the application has to be considered when choosing one or the other.
Can I be pedantic and clear up one thing - the positive displacement blowers trap air between the blades and the housing so it travels around the outside of the lobes, not through the centre. For many years I thought it was the other way.
The Germans had also used nitrous oxide injection, including on their diesel powered Ju-86R aircraft, yes, I said diesel. They also used nitrous, methanol/water systems on other aircraft to increase rate of climb of aircraft. Recall some years back explaining to a young fella that his generation didn't invent Nitrous or turbos. It took some convincing, The fast and furious has a lot to answer for.
Because the harrop is positive displacement, meaning it moves the same quantity of air per revolution from idle through to flat out (bar some inefficiencies) Whereas the centrifugal charger is not, the faster it spins the more pressure it will make. I'm not an expert and may not have explained it well enough, I'm converting my experience over from water pumps as I'm a plumber. These superchargers are all just pumps really.
Yeh super charger cos it’s huge and shiny. Except if it’s an ex air craft cabin pressureriser with a V-belt driving on a 8B-a Ford flathead in an a model ratty ford rod that fries tires like a real hot rod should
Best dive in to your 1930’s race history, rootes blowers where used very efficiently and could really improve engine performance. Machine tolerances made the centrifugal SC’s no option yet
Hey, what about the 4agze it was one of the best engines ever! What about twin charging instant boost from the blower then power from the turbo. Barstard to get right and tune though I guess.
Al (or Woody), I know you mentioned that a Positive Displacement blower will make more boost basically off idle, as compared to the centrifugal blower that won't make max boost until max RPM. I'm not sure if I missed the reason for this? They're both belt driven from the engine. How can the PD Blower make more boost at a lower RPM? (or, steadier boost?)
Positive displacement pumps the same percentage more air than the engines capacity consistently though the rev range, meaning same boost pressure throughout. But centrifugal picks up efficiency with rpm so will make more boost pressure at higher rpm.
I had a twin charged golf and now I have a 2L turbo. The twin charge was so much better for day to day driving. I wish the system was adapted to the much more reliable 2L engine!
Simple one to understand, difficult to explain. Centrifugal supercharger works on speed, more speed exponentially more air until it becomes inefficient. Roots has a fixed volume per Revolution. So when an engine revs faster and can consume more air the supercharger can't pump enough. Yes you can upsize a blower and have a bypass at low speed. Roots are also inefficient and heat the air more than the centrifugal types. Roots really help low down torque. Its all about where the engine efficiency is needed.
Josh Smith it’s positive displacement. Therefore it will always displace the same volume of air per revolution. Similarly an engine will consume the same amount of air per revolution. The supercharger May move more air at full rpm but the engine will consume it thus not increasing boost. Boost will be linear throughout the rpm range. The centrifugal supercharger, like a turbo, needs to spool up. The design needs a Impeller speed to move air. It spools to it’s highest rpm at max engine rpm.
Are you suggesting that top fuel drag cars / nitro funny cars using blowers making in excess of 8,000 HP are not good and would perform better with a turbo?
I didn’t suggest any of those things, you guys need to listen harder. I simply said that Detroit Diesel Blowers are not very efficient on a petrol engine. If you think a top fuel or funny car has a blower off a Detroit diesel on it then you need to look harder.
Got an LSA with the 1.9 over driven 20%. Combined with an interchiller and bigger coolant reservoir its ice cold and makes 430rwkw. I have had big turbo cars but found while they build and build power the power for the same throttle deflection varies wildly. Makes it very easy to drive like a fuckwit with the s/c but harder with big turbo without ending up looking where you were coming from. For big power nothing beats a turbo though.
Subscribe to HarropTV to find out more about their products!
ruclips.net/channel/UC3d6t4QDqdZ-legOvMKLD9w
but but then I'll want to buy one.. :-(
wastegates have been used post turbo to control boost before would they not work on a supercharger?
The Skid Factory not to many top fuel cars with turbos 😂😂😂
"It's pretty hard to talk about boost and not be emotional" NEEDS TO BE ON A T-SIHRT!!!!!!!! I know I would buy a few.
Thanks for the link guys! We had fun with that engine!
Great episode to explain the use of a supercharger on an old diesel!
"Get in that comment section, and start yelling"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
did see that one comming since 4:21, that halfsecond smile there. L.O.L.
Insert "loud noises" gif here
Straight talk. Application matters. There is no perfect solution for EVERY scenario.
False: NITROUS.
The answer is ALWAYS... MX5
@@newklear2k Endurance Racing?
ALL WRONG JACK DANIELS 🤪
I can't believe you said those things about those things! My mates cousins next door neighbours father inlaw had a big huffy boy on his V8 and it was by all accounts super awesome. Or so i'm told. Also i saw a video with one and it made my thing go schwiing.
Even though there is almost no new stuff for me as far as the knowledge about the tech. I still like watching these videos
I always watch to see the resting F off face. 👌
Your very modest.....not really...
Not all of us know everything like you .... and I guarantee that Al has something to teach you
@@cameronwilliams3042 oh I have no doubt about that haha.
@@Baksteen_Express But wait.. some YT expert will school you in 5.....4....3....2....1... Deadshits have their opinions.... sigh....internet life...
Al, it looks like the trip to New Zealand has had a positive effect on the tidiness of your workbench!
just bought a centrifugal supercharger for my xr8, turbo will make more power, but the simplicity of literally bolting it to the front of my engine makes it a good option
tturi2 you’ll still need to get a tune
Hmmm.
65mm pulley(standard) change for 72mm+
Bigger pulley more instant power without the *Turd'bo* lag.
No plumbing for coolant or oil required. Basically just belt and fuel pump!
Cheapest and easiest mod in automotive history.
Well the problem here is you bought an xr8 instead of an xr6 turbo
@@cameronjansz88 old mate probably wanted a 8 cylinder.
Belt driven turbo.
Hey guys, another great video, thanks! I fitted a Rotrex C38 Centrifugal Charger to my Euro BMW M3 (3.0l) a few years ago. I kept it on standard internals, so needed a good and reliable method of governing boost. For a finish I ended up using a Tial wastegate (yes, you read that right) just after the compressor outlet to bleed off boost. With this setup, I also have the advantage of being able to use a smaller pulley to get to max boost lower in the rev range. Why not just turbo it? Well I don't have the skills (or desire) to race a laggy pig and its a bit of a PITA to fit a turbo on a RHD M3 of that era. Ultimately the setup works really well, it has been extremely reliable and it's really nice/predictable to drive... which all adds up to relatively pain free motorsport!
Love your channel. I had a 2004 L67 Calais. Swapped to a smaller pulley for extra boost, water to air intercooled, roller rockers, otr intake, pacemakers, 2 into 1 exhaust, plugs and a tune....reliable and fast....brilliant.
I love the roots blower whine more than the choo choo of a turbo or centri. good video
Al is very pleasant to listen to, just laid back, facts, no BS, Thanks
Back in the day I owned a 1985 Atkinson truck with an GM 8V92T Diesel engine. It had a huge turbo on top of the blower. It also had a water to air cooler under the blower so its nothing new. You explained it well.
As per usual Al is spot on. The only aspect I'd expand upon is that in some forms of circuit racing twin screw is quite popular because it provides a very linear response naturally which is much easier to tune around, versus needing dynamic traction control strategies or boost by gear. On a road course, and extra 10% power mid corner isn't always wanted more than predictable linear response.
The only thing I feel is worth noting is, modern engine management solutions often have the ability to limit boost on launch, making turbochargers suitable in those high-output drag applications. Obviously Al and Woody are already hip to that, but _RUclips Comments!!_ Great summary on the tech boys
I LIKE THE SOUND MY KEYBOARD MAKES!!
Love the raw unfiltered information stream, tell it like it is, no bullshit :D
Love the show guys, I would like to see you guys do a twin charge application, Supercharged and turbocharged.
"Big fan"... I see what you did there. Haha
Id love to here Al's explanation of VGT turbo's. Cool piece of engineering those.
Jesse Thomas-Brown i think he covered it in the turbo episode.
For memory he said it just provides boost control without a wastegate.
Gail Banks said just what you did. he mentioned its the ability to get dense air into the engine that matters. it takes boost and inter cooling to get that done.
@Stupid I think you're confusing evaporation cooling of fuel with types of superchargers. To pump or compress air without increasing the temperature of it is defying physics. Likewise there is always a trade-off with cooling the air using an inter-cooler and compromising flow/pressure. In certain applications (low boost, rich air/fuel mixture, methanol), intercooling may be deemed unnecessary. Plenty of high performance roots blowers are also intercooled, usually with a water-to-air intercooler. The reason turbos are popular in the OEM market is because they are small, reasonably inexpensive, and can be easily packaged into different engine bays and onto existing (NA) manifold designs. Roots style blowers are large, heavy, expensive and difficult to package into a cramped engine bay hence why you only see them on cars with very large V8 engines with very large engine bays. Centrifugal superchargers are not popular for OEMs because a peaky power band is difficult to market to the general public.
Stupid Do you have newsletter I can subscribe to?
Please do an episode on TIG welding, your choice of settings and strategies.
May I suggest "This Old Tony". An excellent channel, the guy isn't full of himself, and is fun to boot. He's got a few welding vids explaining stuff - and not saying "this IS how you do it" while he's at it. Basically demonstrating options you have. He's not just a welder, he does a lot of machining and stuff and silly little projects. Worth checking out.
Neffers I’ve seen all the videos from VL to Kingswood countless times and every quick tech in between. However my request was to do a single quick tech on TIG welding for automotive applications. Not a whole series.
Tom
Please discuss ways to make more or less boost on each along with info on twin turbo and turbo + supercharger combos.
Love ya work lads
Would love to see a quick tech on intercoolers; A2A, W2A, the effect of runner length / diameter, etc. I think Al would have great insight especially given his work on the Coyoda GT86 turbo setup. And it's completely on-brand, a turbo without an intercooler is rare to see.
centrifugal configuration..... explains why people are chasing higher rpms in the seadoos! Awesome tutorial thanks
Gale Banks was discussing turbos and superchargers; they are all air density increasers. its easy to cram more fuel in, more air,when you get it & how much heat your adding to it is the hard part.
I've had a turbo car and a positive displacement supercharger car, both 4 cylinder FWD engines. The turbo ran 15psi and was quick and fun but only after 2800rpm. The eaton was instant power. It made 1st gear a challenge as it would destroy the tires from idle. Positive displacement made 10psi as soon at the throttle was fully opened at ANY rpm.The downside was it would eventually stretch the belt and I'd have to retighten it. Both units have advantages and disadvantages. Sizing for both is important.
The small factory turbo on my FG XR6T had instant throttle reponse @ 18psi on e85.
If you want exotic, I used to have a Mazda with a Comprex supercharger, that used exhaust pulses to _directly_ pressurize the intake charge. Pretty wild.
Also expect a lot of VW fanbois incoming with their scroll superchargers ;)
Years ago, I pulled a pressure wave supercharger off a Mazda bongo diesel van at "pick a part" with the intention of using it on a small cc 4 cylinder build.
Never got around to it but thought it was a weird design being crank and exhaust driven and would have loved to have seen it in operation.
@@darianistead2239 do you still have the supercharger. Never to late.
@@jameswalker3416 Sadly, no. I left it in NZ when I moved to Australia
@@darianistead2239 bummer sounds like a cool idea.
If you want even more exotic, a bottle of compressed air run though a somewhat complex sensor array, powering your engine just for the weight of the air tank. :D
have always been a turbo man. driven a few centrifugal supercharged cars and was never a fan and positive displacement supercharged v6's lick massive balls and in most cases do drive better without it but after driving an car with an LS3 and harrop 2300 runnin about 14psi i've gotta say the torque is addictive af.. so much so i'm pretty sure thats the route i want to go with my SS now.. perfect for a street LS. no doubt i could make more power with a turbo but being realistic for a street car a turbo 6 litre LS even on 9-10psi boost makes stupid power that you can very rarely even try and use on the street and when ya do it doesn't do anything anyway cause ya just peel tyres so maybe i'm just getting old or something but i don't see the point anymore. 3/4's of that power with big torque right off idle where ya can actually feel it is fun as on the street. i still say on anything other than a V8 its must be turbo'd but. supercharged 4's and 6's= aids
Oooo new B camara? The cut away shots are looking mint.
My 92 Miata had an eating m45 supercharger on it and I love it. Makes good noises and the power I wanted and was cheaper then going turbo
4:21 Al shoots and scores: ONEHUNDREDANDEIGHTYYYYYYYYYY, for that evil halfsecond smile.
You forgot to mention, for another coule of extra comments, the roots supercharger in the V is crab for the reason that they have recently "invented" -the wheel again- the HotV again with turbochargers between the banks for temperature controll.
Hahahah, seeing Al saying "Choo-choo boi" got me laughing so hard dunno why :D
Great Video Guys! I do love the simplicity of the supercharger :)
I think we need to see a supercharged 1uz on the channel 😁
The Eaton would look good on the Iron lion
even with the display windows :P
Operative word here being "look"
I think roots style blowers actually go the other way Al and push the air OUT from the centre around the outside of the casing and down rather than through the middle. You could have mentioned the "litre" or capacity of the roots/whipple style superchargers and how that side of it works too.. good video 👍
Tai Johnsen it’s a big subject and a short video. Probs should have been more specific about the types of blowers that are inefficient, ie Detroit blowers.
Positive Displacement Air Pump is even older the Roots, was developed in a larger, slower moving form, as air pumps for deep mineshafts, being able to get clean air to workers keeps them productive.
The centrifugal layout comes from steam turbines used to convert movement of high pressure steam in to movement of a drive shaft (hence Shaft HP rating of turbines and jet engines) to drive electric power generator, and, yes, the exhaust side of a turbo charger can drive an alternator,... And can be scaled up to Snowy River Scheme power station sized.
I have a old falcon with a Centrifugal supercharger it builds boost slowly good for traction and easy on drive line and engine internals
roots blowers were used on "Commer knockers", a 3 cylinder, 6 piston 3 cumbustion chamber horizontal opposed diesel engine used in Commer trucks.
There are people using bypass valves on centrifugal superchargers, not unlike using a wastegate. Pulley it to make your peak boost at mid RPM, then bleed off the rest as you rev towards redline.
Hooray!
My faourite would have to be a compound setup with a screw blower for high pressure and turbo for atmospheric side
It works really well, Snappy performance and massive high end flow.
depending on your application, remember to plumb your wastegate reference line to manifold pressure, not just interstage pressure. And remember to keep your blowoff valve between the supercharger and the throttlebody.
You can pulley your blower up and down depending on your launch traction. And you can set the wastegate for ultimate target power. Its a really nice setup
@@beajayparker247 no waste gate on my old set up, just properly sized housing. Was pushing just over 700 kpa (around 100psi)and yes it's a 12.7 litre diesel lol
@@evil_me Ohhh youre a diesel guy!!!! That makes a lot of sense. Im somewhat of a diesel guy myself, but obviously no where near your level
Hanging out for the next build to start👍🏻
Al, I agree with you most of the time. I will say turbos are a better way to go, do to the ability to tune when you use that boost. Although; you cannot completely discard superchargers. Top fuel drag racing cannot be wrong. Producing 15 to 20 thousand horsepower and using a supercharger to assist with that. I believe if they could benefit from turbochargers over the supercharger they would have done so long ago.
Love the videos guys keep them coming. When's the next build??
The centrifugal blower is a Powerdyne unit sold by CAPA in SA
Awesome instructive video👌🏽👌🏽
What? No VW G-Lader? Lol. *makes popcorn. Waits for commentary to get spicy*
Keith Hache cos everyone with a Polo G40 put a Ko3 turbo on instead. The G-ladders need a rebuild every 20k miles or so. I once watched one blow some sort of seal and spray oil all over a dyno roller. Good times
Lol muh scroll edge seals
@@andrewstewart1464 yeah. "just tried reassembling it. Abandoned that in favour of learning quantum physics"
had one, swapped it out for a twin screw XD
Andrew Stewart it’s the wankel of superchargers
I wonder what Al's opinion of twin charging is? Positive displacement supercharger for the low end and a rather large turbo for the high end
I want to see a Turbo Yoda and Stevie Fast chat/podcast. One hates turbos and mocks them but absolutely knows how to go fast with supercharger or nitrous., the other is Turbo Yoda ferchristsakes. Would be amazing content.
Notso Fresh Steve has a PSI Screw blower on the shadow, not some shitbox old rootes blower
Cheers for the great info AL.
Muy buena esplicacion,como siempre maestro.Saludos desde Puerto Rico.
Absolutely, couldn't agree more
“Most people that have a blower on there car, they just like it ‘cause they’re huge and shiny and shit.” Lol. Boomer hot rodding in a single sentence
*their
Have you actually seen a top fuel car. My son is 16 and more appreciation for forced induction than you do. Sad.
jsmi4190 Yeah top fuelers have over 7,000 hp and use blowers. Hmmm, weird, not one has a turbo or centrifugal supercharger and they are the fastest cars in the world.
@@ardyshane23 thats because class regulations say they MUST use one. top fuel engines are HUGE theire superchargers ARE HUGE and the airfuel mix is practically on the verge of hydrolocking the engine as there is so much fuel and the air is so compressed that it almost gets to liquid state. those engine run more compression than any diesel use literally more current than a welder for the spark. and run only up to about 70psi psi of boost.
compare that to sport compact where a 4 cylider is making over 100PSI of boost and producing over 2000HP from 2l of displacement instead of 7000 from 8.1l. based purely on a hp per CC or HP by dispalacement turbo yodas statement is TRUE
hell at summer nats a 6 cylinder made of 2000hp on 3l of displacment with less boost than a top fuel so again using top fuel and their use of blowers isn't a good example of the pinacle of power and efficiency. because if they could use turbos they would and they'd make even more power due to elimination of the parasitic power loss a supercharger adds. which btw it takes up to 700HP to just turn the supercharger in a top fuel
kyle hubner I am not doubting what you are saying to some degree, but I do believe if it was possible to make more power than a current top fuel race motor, somebody would do it and put it on a track. In my research nobody has. There are also the laws of diminishing returns. Sure 2000hp out of a small motor is great, but what does it take to get 2500 or 3000, and that’s still light years away from the power top fuelers make. My only complaint about this video anyway was the attitude towards roots blowers, like they are pointless. All forced induction options have a place, and all are fun and make power. I agree some are more efficient than others obviously. I like them all, but I like NA the best.
I fitted a roots to my diesel car, before it made 70.2hp at 6000rpm. After it made 72hp at 4000rpm. I also don't recommend inlet temperatures around 100 Celsius because it's the equivalent of pouring molasses in the arctic. I had fun though, so that's what counts.
It was a 2 lobe roots from a March Superturbo!
Got any videos?
@@DrSpanky yes, you've seen it already 👀 it's a yellow Peugeot 106. I've since removed it and have a GT17 lined up for it.
@@MartinObviously so I have... You have more then one RUclips channel ay
@@DrSpanky yes mate, I've been neglecting it though, I've got plenty footage it's just the editing it that takes all the time and my shit internet :(
Hahahaha the shade Al is throwing on roots blowers is funny as hell.
Personally, the two forced induction systems I'm most impressed by are the MGU-H in f1 (energy deployment / regen directly into / from the turbo shaft) and Koenigsegg's compressed air powered 'anti-lag' system in the Jesko. Here's hoping they both make their way into production cars.
I have an S5, my first supercharged car. The supercharger matches the car well in not only the linearity of the power on a fat pig of a car, but the attitude as well.
Great car, because not a Roots-style blower.
My ex boss had a s5 b8 wagon, it was around 440 hp . The original german owner had it go through abt on the way out of the factory. It was a pretty sweet daily.
Oh shit woodie 😂 what’s happening with the crown al ? 😍😍 love the channel legends slowly working thru the older videos 👌
What about leafblowers? Do they make power or are they just used for blowing electric nissans aside?
My dad used to work on shackleton's in the raf in the mid 80s had 4 rolls Royce Griffin engines all had twin speed superchargers fitted. The superchargers where all bigger the a modern 4 cylinder engines.
So between the 2 superchargers, does the centrifugal one make more power? And does the centrifugal still have lag like a turbo?
It looks like a 'powerdyne' sc. I had a AU with one, its a bit small for a 4L but it does help.
Maybe next Quick Tech could cover air to water intercoolers and a comparison between the air to air ones? Or maybe the guys of MCM could to some comparison tests like they did with the painted and non-painted intercoolers?
GG Dragu Have a watch of our heat exchanger quick tech mate!!
Great info again, you're the man!
To me its simple:
V8 or V6: goes good with a roots type supercharger.
4 and 6 cylinder inline engine: goes good with centreifucal supercharger or a Turbo.
The Toyota factory supercharger kit for the 3rz 4 cyl engine is cool for 4wds. It's outrageously easy to fit as it just replaces half the intake plenum. Easy afternoon job. Works with existing intake, snorkels etc. No need to touch the exhaust. Kit is 4psi on stock system or 8psi pulley with fuel mods. Doesn't make bulk power but great for off-road.
One way to make a centrifical supercharger work better is to overdrive it with a smaller pulley so it makes the desired boost at a lower engine RPM, but then have a wastegate to vent the excess pressure to prevent the engine from kabooming. Not as efficient, but fixes the issue of not making enough boost.
But that blower noise though 😍😍
Damn, Al went hard on roots blowers! I love them whether they're the best answer or not.
A question for Al, Can a turbo barra be fitted legally into an r31 skyline wagon in Qld? I've been told the tare is not high enough, Cheers.
My opinion when it comes to turbo vs other:
Turbo is superior because it runs on waste, and does not (theoretically) max out, the others steal a certain amount of HP just to be driven and has a limited boost just because of that.
With that being said, I totally agree that the application has to be considered when choosing one or the other.
whats the brass butterfly looking doo-hickey in the front of the harrop unit? bleed of some sort? thanks for the vid!
Well, he is called Turbo Yoda...not Roots Yoda. Well done gentleman, cheers from the US!
I guess you both think blowers are better than turbos?
Serious question. If the big chrome blowers are inefficient, then why do most of the big Summernats burnout cars seem to use them?
Is that belt driven turbo thing one of the CAPA kits for Falcons from back in the mid 2000's?
Can I be pedantic and clear up one thing - the positive displacement blowers trap air between the blades and the housing so it travels around the outside of the lobes, not through the centre. For many years I thought it was the other way.
Alright, I'm in the comments Al.
YELL YELL YELL YELL YELL. Dunno why but YELL!
Did I do good? 🤷
GaAaAaAaAaaaaAh
I disagree just cauz
Yer feed him!!
LOUD NOISES
The Germans had also used nitrous oxide injection, including on their diesel powered Ju-86R aircraft, yes, I said diesel. They also used nitrous, methanol/water systems on other aircraft to increase rate of climb of aircraft.
Recall some years back explaining to a young fella that his generation didn't invent Nitrous or turbos. It took some convincing, The fast and furious has a lot to answer for.
haha "too late junior"
@@yowie0889 Yeah, pretty much, took some convincing though, even then I suspect he wasn't sure.
why doesn't the super charger ramp up boost like the centrifugal turbo? as they are both linked to RPM?
Because the harrop is positive displacement, meaning it moves the same quantity of air per revolution from idle through to flat out (bar some inefficiencies)
Whereas the centrifugal charger is not, the faster it spins the more pressure it will make. I'm not an expert and may not have explained it well enough, I'm converting my experience over from water pumps as I'm a plumber. These superchargers are all just pumps really.
Yeh super charger cos it’s huge and shiny. Except if it’s an ex air craft cabin pressureriser with a V-belt driving on a 8B-a Ford flathead in an a model ratty ford rod that fries tires like a real hot rod should
Best dive in to your 1930’s race history, rootes blowers where used very efficiently and could really improve engine performance. Machine tolerances made the centrifugal SC’s no option yet
That was the best tech of the day. But, tech moved on. Only turbos in F1 for over 40yrs.
keeping it real as always al🤘
Hey, what about the 4agze it was one of the best engines ever! What about twin charging instant boost from the blower then power from the turbo. Barstard to get right and tune though I guess.
That explanation cleared up quiet a bit
You really hate roots blowers, good on ya.
Awesome dudes!
Al (or Woody), I know you mentioned that a Positive Displacement blower will make more boost basically off idle, as compared to the centrifugal blower that won't make max boost until max RPM. I'm not sure if I missed the reason for this?
They're both belt driven from the engine. How can the PD Blower make more boost at a lower RPM? (or, steadier boost?)
Positive displacement pumps the same percentage more air than the engines capacity consistently though the rev range, meaning same boost pressure throughout. But centrifugal picks up efficiency with rpm so will make more boost pressure at higher rpm.
Mmm power 😂
thanks Al , bloody awesome mate . if people don't agree then don't give a shit .
I had a twin charged golf and now I have a 2L turbo. The twin charge was so much better for day to day driving. I wish the system was adapted to the much more reliable 2L engine!
I has ownd both in gti polos I find the 2ltr just as or more torque down low as the twin charged
How come the Eaton doesn't make full boost at full rpm like the centrifugal?
Simple one to understand, difficult to explain.
Centrifugal supercharger works on speed, more speed exponentially more air until it becomes inefficient.
Roots has a fixed volume per Revolution. So when an engine revs faster and can consume more air the supercharger can't pump enough.
Yes you can upsize a blower and have a bypass at low speed.
Roots are also inefficient and heat the air more than the centrifugal types.
Roots really help low down torque.
Its all about where the engine efficiency is needed.
Josh Smith it’s positive displacement. Therefore it will always displace the same volume of air per revolution. Similarly an engine will consume the same amount of air per revolution. The supercharger May move more air at full rpm but the engine will consume it thus not increasing boost. Boost will be linear throughout the rpm range.
The centrifugal supercharger, like a turbo, needs to spool up. The design needs a Impeller speed to move air. It spools to it’s highest rpm at max engine rpm.
@@xagtrpo83351 Makes sense, I've never really thought about it
Are you suggesting that top fuel drag cars / nitro funny cars using blowers making in excess of 8,000 HP are not good and would perform better with a turbo?
I didn’t suggest any of those things, you guys need to listen harder. I simply said that Detroit Diesel Blowers are not very efficient on a petrol engine. If you think a top fuel or funny car has a blower off a Detroit diesel on it then you need to look harder.
Well, there’s your boost leak...!
Is that old supercharger a STA supercharger?
I like Al's dislike of roots blowers made my day
He's right, they awesome aesthetically but don't come anywhere near a turbo for efficiency.
@@jaydunbar7538 mmmm fair
@@jaydunbar7538 There's a difference in "character" between the two that I appreciate.
I got both of those @1.4l polo :D
Got an LSA with the 1.9 over driven 20%. Combined with an interchiller and bigger coolant reservoir its ice cold and makes 430rwkw.
I have had big turbo cars but found while they build and build power the power for the same throttle deflection varies wildly.
Makes it very easy to drive like a fuckwit with the s/c but harder with big turbo without ending up looking where you were coming from.
For big power nothing beats a turbo though.
Al, check out PSI superchargers. Norm Drazy is a genius.
And we can thank Sir Harry Ricardo for his research and testing in the 30s to lay the path for any of them to become what they are.
Cool thanks you