What Is Modular Vehicle Design -- And How Can It Benefit Electric Cars?

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  • Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 67

  • @aigarius
    @aigarius 5 лет назад +11

    As an example of what the video is talking about - BMW has over 60 different models of cars in production and all* of them are build just on two platforms: CLAR for larger (3 series, X3 and anything above them) and FAAR for smaller (1, 2, X1, X2 and Mini) cars. In addition to spreading out the cost of platform development across far larger number of cars this also benefits technology sharing across the product range - once a design for a PHEV based on CLAR platform is developed, it is relatively simple and cheap to replicate that for all other car models on the same platform. Same is also true for EV development - BMW is designing its 5th generation EV drivetrain with CLAR platform in mind and it is also designed to be scalable, so that it can be used for anything from a small sedan to a huge SUV. That is how BMW is planning to offer at least 12 different EV models before 2025. It will also help a lot that such cars can be assembled on the same assembly lines as their base cars are already being assembled on in production. This again spreads out the investment and labor costs across multiple car models reducing risks if one model either does not sell or encounters problems in production scaling. Shared parts and shared repair knowledge have also already been mentioned.
    * - except i3 and i8 and few older car models still being produced that were introduced before CLAR/FAAR development.

  • @glenf4115
    @glenf4115 5 лет назад +4

    Modular system could also mean changing the passenger compartment into a truck when you need it, a sedan or an SUV. Then rent some long-range cells from the dealership for a long road trip.

  • @solentbum
    @solentbum 5 лет назад +2

    One of the earliest examples of modular design was the BMC Mini, designed with three main components, Engine, Body and rear subframe. Hence the large number of variants, including soft tops, vans and Pickups.
    In so many ways 'Modular design ' is simply salemans speak for doing the job properly.

  • @quinnfoster4671
    @quinnfoster4671 5 лет назад +3

    When I was in middle school I volunteered for a program called WIKISPEED. They were making modular aluminum cars with modified Honda engines that could be switched out very easily. It was made to you could switch out from a gas to electric motor, and adding batteries was easy.

  • @N8TheSnake
    @N8TheSnake 5 лет назад +5

    The level of modularization for future vehicles will likely be realized as a balance between consumer demand for it to make repairs easier/cheaper and the manufacturers' desire to reduce manufacturing costs as a result of it.

  • @Chimel31
    @Chimel31 5 лет назад +2

    We need a lot more standardization on batteries and even electrical engines indeed. The concept of extensible range battery packs especially is awesome, and it could also be used for battery swapping, making recharging as fast as refilling gas.
    Unfortunately, there will still be different types of battery packs and engines based on quality or performance or technology. But I guess even recharging different types of batteries in the same car can be addressed, as long as the individual battery pack contains only the same battery types.
    Platforms include mostly car parts like chassis indeed, but can also be seen from the car factory's perspective, i.e. totally different chassis and cars that can be produced on the same production line with the same programmable robots and manual workers.
    This is important when car manufacturers decide to build a brand new car factory in a different country and market: They can produce several types of cars in the same production floor instead of producing just one platform and its variants, adding production floors as they grow. It also makes the car factory more resilient: When one production line crashes or needs to be upgraded, production can continue on another during repairs or maintenance.
    As modular goes, I was even dreaming as a kid of being able to swap at will the "top hats", the body on top of the chassis and seats, for instance from a regular road trip car to a delivery vehicle or a pick-up truck, or even change style, from a modern-looking car to a vintage Jaguar Mark 2, a Citroen DS Pallas, etc. All chassis from all car manufacturers would share the same design to connect any top hat from any manufacturer. If Tesla really manages to build cars and batteries made to last a million kilometers, your car might get boring after the first few years, swapping bodies would bring a new car look, and would also make fixing all the little car body dents and glitches easier if the top hat is sitting empty and easily accessible in the workshop.

  • @weldorman8495
    @weldorman8495 5 лет назад +1

    It seems VW is going to have a leg up in modular car construction, since they've been doing that starting with the Beetle. Their Squareback, Notchback, Sedan and Karmann-Ghia were all built on the same basic platform. This was their whole chassis assembly. Other manufacturers, once unibody construction began, used subframes to carry their engine, transmission and steering components. Now, with platforms being constructed to carry battery and drive components, with a body dropped on afterward, it's just like back to Beetle building for VW. And they know how to do that very, very well.

  • @k34561
    @k34561 5 лет назад +2

    The downside of platforms is that they lock you in. In becomes way harder to inovate. One of the big hurtles electric cars have had is the existing platforms. This hurt hybrids. The only company that really developed a hybrid platform was Toyota's synergy drive.
    Tesla is at it also. Sandy Munro talked about it when examining the electronic systems in the Tesla Model 3. Tesla eschewed the modular design of many separate computers wired together in favor of one central computer. Very much like Apple did with the iPhone.

    • @pogo1140
      @pogo1140 5 лет назад +1

      That actually makes it harder to fix as if something goes wrong the whole thing goes down not just the module.

    • @banjirjir7519
      @banjirjir7519 4 года назад

      wow platform lock u in eh
      platform hard to inovate eh
      sure those dont happen in centralizes design....

  • @leax_Flame
    @leax_Flame 5 лет назад +1

    There’s also TNGA(Toyota New Global Architecture) and E-TNGA. They have partnerships with Mazda, Subaru and Suzuki to build vehicles off the platform.
    Currently the Camry, Prius(prime) Avalon, RAV4, Corolla and Lexus LC & LS are using with the 2020 highlander and Yaris(Hatchback I think) to be out soon.
    The Electric C-HR/IZOA is the first to be built with E-TNGA.

  • @bellshooter
    @bellshooter 5 лет назад +2

    Added benefits are also from maintenance education, spare parts inventory, and reliability growth.

    • @Marc-zi4vg
      @Marc-zi4vg 5 лет назад

      ..and give it after a few years, just like a gaming pc, RACER PARTS!

  • @BugMagnet
    @BugMagnet 5 лет назад +1

    As long as different battery chemistries, regulatory systems and voltages are out there, a common cross industry standard pack will stay a dream. But there is hope that at least we will get a single plug and universal paying methods eventually to end the chaos and frustration at public chargers.

  • @N8TheSnake
    @N8TheSnake 5 лет назад +5

    Would be nice to have designs so modular that one could remove battery modules from their car at a time of their choosing and plug it into their house with an equally modular home battery system!

    • @richardgray2706
      @richardgray2706 5 лет назад

      There are many locations in Canada with minimal or unreliable infrastructure. It would be wonderful if I could have a car with an electric drive train (with regenerative braking and no transmission) but
      many swappable power modules just like you suggested. If need be you could swap some of the
      battery power modules, with an Auxiliary Power Unit module (like a fuel cell or even an ICE), with appropriate fuel modules for powering your vehicle or your house...

  • @steevesdd
    @steevesdd 5 лет назад

    Rocky Mountain institute has been working at developing carbon fibre manufacturing options applicable to automobile manufacturing. It would be interesting to have a segment reviewing that work.

  • @jonathanweimane6926
    @jonathanweimane6926 5 лет назад +1

    Bad idea, then there will be only one bad design of the battery packs... maybe just make a addon battery module that you can rent or buy that is interchangeable? It would only act as a range extender?

    • @pogo1140
      @pogo1140 5 лет назад +1

      The battery any shape as long as it fits into the area that is provided by the platform.

  • @BrackenDog10
    @BrackenDog10 5 лет назад

    Yes Fiat, but adding battery modules to, or removing them from the car to suit the user's immediate needs is nice in theory, but batteries are heavy. To keep driving characteristics and safety under control, all cars equipped with variable battery size also would need adjustable springs and dampers, adjustable physical and regenerative braking components, variable steering assistance, possibly changes to air bag triggers and seat belt pre-tensioners (and probably lots more) just to compensate for the weight changes.

  • @stevenbollinger9776
    @stevenbollinger9776 5 лет назад +1

    Yes, I knew that vehicles from different manufacturers often share parts. They've been doing this for decades, maybe for actually a century by now (I said maybe). Not sure whether the Now You Know guys knew before very recently. They reported on some joint ventures in the auto industry and acted as if it were the most bizarre thing they'd ever heard of.

    • @aigarius
      @aigarius 5 лет назад +1

      People on Tesla fan board often don't know much about how cars are made. Arguments like "Mercedes wouldn't use an engine for another car maker!" are still really common. So it is important to educate people on basic facts of life from time to time (Like Mercedes using Renault engines in some of its models as it is cheaper than developing their own sub-2l engine). This, however, is not about sharign parts, this is a bout a company building an equivalent of a Lego kit, using it to build all their different types of cars and others also using the same Lego kit (under license) and putting their body shapes, interiors and badges on the result. Like BMW Z4 and Toyota Supra.

    • @pogo1140
      @pogo1140 5 лет назад

      Nowyouknow don't know a lot.
      As to how long automanufacturer's have been using "modular designs", I'd say the Ford Model T was an early example.
      One chassis engine and running gear, available as a 2 seat runabout, 4 seat roadster, 5 seat sedan, pickup, flatbed, delivery van.
      And most cars of that era came as a naked chassis and the customer could specify the motor and then send it to a coach builder who would build the body to the customer's specs.

  • @jeremytitus6575
    @jeremytitus6575 4 года назад

    So here we are technically talking more about the modular battery design. But what about the overall body(exterior). Is it possible to have/design an entirely modular Electonic Vehicle?
    If someone has knowledge of these things or can direct me to somewhere similar, it would be very helpful. Thanks.

  • @xpkareem
    @xpkareem 5 лет назад

    Maybe I missed something but still not clear what the difference between a platform and a modular design is.

  • @CabrilloTV
    @CabrilloTV 5 лет назад +3

    Well expressed, thank you.

    • @benbrown8258
      @benbrown8258 5 лет назад

      I absolutely agree with you Nikki was spot on here. If the oems have a sustainable future this would definitely be one of the strongest points they could aim toward

  • @SD-tj5dh
    @SD-tj5dh 5 лет назад +1

    Remember when the Mazda 323 and the Ford fiesta were exactly the same car?

    • @michaeloreilly657
      @michaeloreilly657 5 лет назад

      Mazda 121 and Ford Fiesta.

    • @leax_Flame
      @leax_Flame 5 лет назад

      Or for more recent ones, Toyota Yaris and Mazda 2, Toyota 86 and Subaru brz.

  • @franciscoshi1968
    @franciscoshi1968 5 лет назад

    I think drive train (motor, gearbox, power electronics) will be very easy and convenient for manufacturers to standardise. These components last a very long time and are unlikely to be replaced and there isn't much that can be improved that would require a shape change.
    The battery pack however is what can give advantages to a manufacturer over others and it is unlikely they will want to let others use their technology. Also battery packs are what determine the useful life of the car. It will not be in the manufacturer's best interest if aftermarket suppliers can easily sell cheap replacement battery packs that are better than what the car had when new. It would allow EVs to potentially last twice as long as a petrol car. This would be bad for business. A good example is a new battery pack for a Nissan leaf in Australia is about 70% or the price of a new car. Imagine if you could replace that battery pack for $3000 and give your car another 8 years of life.

  • @brasse8
    @brasse8 5 лет назад

    What about electronics such as charging circuits, infotainments etc

  • @lifeisallalboutbalan
    @lifeisallalboutbalan 5 лет назад

    Hi Nicky, am I correct from an ingeneering perspective that the MEB platform has a (some) serious weaknesses built in which initially will not be seen/ noticed. If they keep a car platform over many years in like they do right now instead of costant updates like tesla does. Am I correct that the max charging speed will be impossible to upgrade after reaching its software & hardware peak...? Right now if a car with the MEB platform max charing specs & lets say 64 kWh usable battery would be faster then the new 100 min standard 100 kWDC (new released properly built EV's with a 'bigger' battery. This will be terribly outdated or sub standard in just a few years. It is vital & a fact that charging speeds are & need to improve fast to break the slower then ICE fueling up. EVs battery packs also will still need to increase a lot to reach range parity with ICE which will makes this weakness even worse / more evident

    • @pogo1140
      @pogo1140 5 лет назад

      Charge rate has nothing to do with the MEB platform.

  • @swms1021
    @swms1021 5 лет назад +1

    I’m surprised you skipped Rivian in this topic. Right now they have one chassis for two different bodies The truck and the RV. The battery pack is 3 (power options) sizes each of which will fit in the same chassis. They have done testing of this chassis with a Ford F-150 body mounted on it. This was before Ford made the 500 million investment in Rivian so we can guess where this might be going. With Amazon investing 900 million in Rivian I can also see some sort of delivery truck body being mounted on this same frame with different battery sizes for different functions . I would also suspect that this chassis could easily be stretched out and beefed up or compressed a bit to handle larger vehicles capable of larger battery packs and range or smaller vehicles. The only thing that would cause more expense is if they have to change the motor sizes if they want to downsize them for the smaller vehicles. The way the motors are now they can easily propel a larger vehicle and no change in size would be needed unless they got into something much larger

    • @The4lexO
      @The4lexO 5 лет назад +1

      Never saw rivian cars btw

    • @thinkabout288
      @thinkabout288 5 лет назад

      Rivian is still just a dream yet, but Tesla better get going on their pickup soon

    • @lawrenceatkinson5884
      @lawrenceatkinson5884 5 лет назад

      Tesla cars use common parts. Your point is silly.

    • @aigarius
      @aigarius 5 лет назад

      @@lawrenceatkinson5884 Are there common parts between Model S and Model 3? IIRC they literally changed absolutely everything. Even between Model S and Model X a lot of drivetrain components are not interchangable. They are just different sizes for no good reason.

    • @lawrenceatkinson5884
      @lawrenceatkinson5884 5 лет назад

      @@aigarius well I can't refer to source at this time, there will be common chassis and suspension components across all the four models.
      And . . .
      'the flagship sedan and SUV are getting a redesigned powertrain that uses the same "permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor" and associated technology we first saw in the Model 3.'

  • @frankstocker5475
    @frankstocker5475 5 лет назад

    Yes, it's called a multi adaptor.

  • @dewiz9596
    @dewiz9596 5 лет назад +6

    Considering the highly unnecessary assortment of 12 Volt Lead Acid batteries across various car manufacturers, I sure would be holding my breath for any kind of standardization for EVs.

    • @steve2008s
      @steve2008s 5 лет назад +1

      A good designer will look at all the E.V, and steal the best. Which will hopefully make projects more standardized. Even without a formal agreement.

    • @N8TheSnake
      @N8TheSnake 5 лет назад +3

      The 12V lead acid batteries are sized specific to the CCA needed to start motors of various sizes in ICE vehicles. I don't think this fact has a ton of bearing manufacturers willingless to modularize EV manufacturing.
      The level of modularization will likely be realized as a balance between consumer demand for it to make repairs easier and cheaper and the manufacturers desire to reduce manufacturing costs.

    • @lawrenceatkinson5884
      @lawrenceatkinson5884 5 лет назад +1

      Remember the video cassette (VCR) battle. The 'Blu-ray' battle. Sadly, individual brands don't see the advantage of standardization.

  • @swms1021
    @swms1021 5 лет назад

    I have a lot of replies on my first comment telling me how Tesla has a lot of these things. My comment was on Rivian. I in no way said anything derogatory about any of the other vehicles on the market so I don’t understand why the attitude and attacks? Is it the hat?

    • @theuncalledfor
      @theuncalledfor 5 лет назад

      Why would you make a separate comment about that?

  • @ollebrandt
    @ollebrandt 5 лет назад

    Nikki, this was really one of your more engaged shows, I gather this is really important for the (immediate) future?...

  • @Atlien4eva3000
    @Atlien4eva3000 5 лет назад +2

    Cheaper cars from ford, VW, BMW, Mercedes😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

  • @TriPham-xd9wk
    @TriPham-xd9wk 3 года назад

    Modular design meaning the hierarchy of maintenance so like the car drive in the robot diagnostic kiosk and robot remove and replace the component and you back on the road in 5 minutes while component goes into higher intermediate maintenance shop in well lit air-conditioning working place for high quality performance and no more grease monkey that girls friends all deserted them for dating medical doctor who work with germs and induced hallucinating happiness

  • @toptobottom247
    @toptobottom247 5 лет назад +1

    The MEB platform is nothing new or exciting. That adjustable platform is already being used by Volvo for 3 years now. They have a different name for it.

    • @Soordhin
      @Soordhin 5 лет назад +2

      The MEB is just the new platform for electric cars. VW has actually used a modular platform design for a very long time across most of its many brands. In fact, the current MQB (Modularer Querbaukasten) has been in use in over 40 different models across its brands since 2012, and is currently used it is second iteration. Before that, there was of course another modular design as well. It makes it much cheaper to exchange components across its range of different brands, not all of which of course use those modular designs (Ducati has no use for the MEB or MQB for example) and of course the company can make some money by licensing it to other manufacturers, or get something else in return.

  • @millin-avp-educationav-kin9128
    @millin-avp-educationav-kin9128 5 лет назад

    If the life of the battery is 8years, I think optimizing the battery for each car is much more important than how easy it is to swap out.

  • @frankstocker5475
    @frankstocker5475 5 лет назад +3

    It will never happen, we can't even decide on a common house electric plug never mind multi corporates agreeing to share something.

    • @KaiHenningsen
      @KaiHenningsen 5 лет назад

      You know, Europe _has_ agreed on a common household plug ...

    • @Soordhin
      @Soordhin 5 лет назад

      Well, except the UK of course ;) But then, the UK is in the process of slowly drifting away into the atlantic ocean to become either the fabled continent of Atlantis (never to be seen again) or the 51st state of the USA.

  • @DanielOrdAlanPhanord
    @DanielOrdAlanPhanord 5 лет назад +1

    FIRST

  • @SUPERMAN-xf4fv
    @SUPERMAN-xf4fv 5 лет назад

    Car makers will save money but they will still sell it more expensive because of corporate greed.

  • @Ron-qs6ne
    @Ron-qs6ne 5 лет назад

    Meanwhile they keep socking it to the consumer.