This video has been missing from the world ever since Graces' original release. Finding accurate info about this game's obscure mechanics was like pulling teeth. Thanks so much for this!
The only bit of relevant info that I think could be added (small omission) is with regards to hitting weaknesses and its effects. Aside from the indicated damage multiplier, there's the CC gain on hitting all weaknesses ("full power hits"/orange combo counter), relatively minor (don't know if there's a known formula), as well as preventing enemies from evading. Don't recall if that last bit applied on any weakness hits or if it required the full set.
@@NinetyNineNo Ah, that is good information. If I ever would make an extension to this, that would be one thing to add that I didn't think of. I don't even remember the part about preventing evasion from a full weakness hit enemy 😲, but it does feel like something i heard before 🤔. Was that in the Battle Tips? Or something you personally observed?
@@frubam I'd be lying if I told you exactly haha, I'd have to check. It's been a while, but I think it was in the battle tips. Oh, another relevant tidbit now that i think about it: how weight influences combos (enemies don't break out if they're being juggled/airborne and heavier enemies are harder to juggle, which is why certain monster bosses can be such a pain in the ass to combo).
@@rafaelcarmona3894 Yeah, that is a thing. I did know about it, but it never came to me to ever mention it D0=. Info like this/these ones make me realize there is still pertinent info to cover that could help players enjoy the game more. I just wish I had another month to put even more things together, but alas 😞
Sorry I wasn't able to review your last version before release. I was on business trip for a few days and couldn't find the time to do so. Nonetheless, the added examples and revisions are very well done. As I said to you before, this is a very well done guide that goes through the most important misconceptions and it was a huge necessity to do that for Graces. Amazing job and many thanks for your contribution to the community.
No worries brother, your first comment pointed me in the right direction I needed to go in. To be honest, I was a bit nervous about posting it without your seal of approval, but I assumed you were busy, so... Nevertheless, it wouldn't have been as refined without your input, so I really appreciate it =03!
Videos like these are actually a big point why I was excited for the remaster to come out, so that people can make a bunch of new guides on how the game works. I hope people do this for the Xillia duology when those get remastered, thank you so much for the guide!
@@frubam I can't speak for everyone, but for this kind of video, I do prefer them to be longer/more detailed, even if I don't 100% understand everything about it. You got the main points across, which was the most important part. The section about Accuracy was particularly notable, I went like my whole life (of playing this game) under the false assumption that it just was the "hitstun" stat, but then last year I saw people saying "no it's the critical hit stat." So it's interesting that the answer is... sorta both. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but still.
Man, I REALLY overlooked that critical gauge and Acc. I wonder if I would've enjoyed the combat much more years ago if I had a better grasp instead of growing to kinda hate it as time went 😅 Great video. It makes me excited to do a new run while keeping some of these things in mind!
Thank you for this combat primer! Graces has always been shrouded in mystery regarding mechanics and it was really cool seeing what is fully under the hood! Crit gauge really does everything, huh? Great work 💖
the JP wikis have all of this stuff documented 😮!? That's impressive in its own right. Funny enough, that Sparrow Seal example is one I remember WAYYY back when ps3 JP Graces f came out, but its still cool to have all of that kind of info in a readily-available source =03.
Yeah, I was a bit burned out from Xillia 2 for sure. I just don't game like I used to anymore 😞. Still, I'll do what I can when the motivation strikes me well enough, haha.
It's so good to see it all in one place after such a long time! :D A few things I could swear I remember are enemy weight (enemies stuck to the ground are the worst!) and the fact that each arte has a critical multiplier, with A-Artes generally having higher critical multipliers but lower damage output and B-artes being the opposite.
That's a very well-made guide to explain mechanics that can certainly be frustrating to unaware players! I've played a lot of Graces f back in the day and I certainly didn't know all of it, though I remembered the basic thing of "Accuracy is super duper important", at least, haha! I'm sure this video will help a lot of people jumping in with the Remastered version!
This is such a great video! Congrats on this frubam, specially with how much stuff of ToGf is misunderstood I don't think stagger time matters for how many times the enemy is hit perse, though. (Still watching sorry wanted to congratulate fast and now I'm editing lol) Are you sure about this? I do know there's stagger decay when an Arte isn't fresh as there's a penalty and each hitbox has its own stagger but I've never seen any comparison with combo hit but that'd be new information if that's the case
Perhaps I should have done more tests. And maybe something outside of a vacuum so-to-speak just to make sure it was correct =0v. The particular test I did for this was using Sparrow Seal, since it had a high stagger value. I found the memory value that housed the "stagger time"(that being in quotes because it also activated when the enemy guarded. I suppose there's a minimum amount of frames before guard deactivates, unlike say, Xillia where you can slide-guard by mashing guard+free running😆, but that's just a guess). I placed a breakpoint on that value and each time it changed, I could see when and how it changed. When I used Sparrow Seal and hit the enemy once, the value in that memory space increased once(to 84) and decremented by 1 until it reached 0. It would then jump back to 8 and decrement back to 0, which is what I assumed was its 'recovery' phase(again, a guess). However, when I hit with all three hits, after the jump to 84, the counter dropped by a larger value twice, around 10 points, after a certain number of frames before showing the hit. Then again, after reaching 0, it would jump back to 8 and decrement by 1 to 0. Therefore, I had assumed that hits would lower the stagger time, as Muc had explained, but I am not actually sure now how other hits via other chars would effect this value, if at all.
@@frubam Ill mess around and ser what I get from datamining the PC ver but this is very good info! I am mostly suspecting this for one reason only, if this was the case unclean hits mid animation would never break combos since extra hits should lower it. There might be something odd at play here aaaa Graces is the eternal puzzle lol
This is an incredible resource. I only played the beta (Wii) version and never took it farther, so this is all good to know. Do you think the Artes Ball and 0 SV mods will be ported to Remastered?
I dunno. That's sounds more like Sora3100's territory I'm afraid. Would be nice to have for sure for the new playthrough, but it'll probably be a while IF he feels up to it 😟.
@@frubam No idea for graces that is why I ask if it even is a thing but in destiny the formula is based on your stats so equipment affects level ups. Don't know the exact formula right now.
man was any of this explained anywhere in game? I was operating on false info for so long. all that time wasted maxing out accuracy on weapons for stagger time😅 glad to go into the remaster with this new knowledge. Was this stuff found out through datamining or just putting hours and hours into the game and noticing these things?
Well, I was in the same boat as you 😔... As for me, it was @Muctales that noticed the difference within the community that I was in back in the day(others might have noticed/commented, but for me, he's the first I remember noticing this stuff). I did personally look at internal information for this video specifically to make sure most of the stuff was accurate, especially about stagger times, and we weren't just deluding ourselves or something.
As much as I enjoy this game, passive evasion has to be one of the absolute most idiotic mechanics Namco has EVER put into one of these games. The enemy getting to "nuh uh" getting staggered by you on a dice roll is awful game design in a series where missing is a genuine skill issue
Not bamco as much as Team Destiny. ToD2(the rally one, not Eternia) was dreadfully worse fron what I've seen, so they actually have a track record for this lol.
Honestly, I don't use Arte Skip, so I don't think I could make a video on that with confidence. I know @Muctales has a video on it, but it is old, and could use an upgraded version with more clarity. @Just_Samu and @Mysterica are doing solo Sophie runs, and they know it and use it very liberally and would probably be better to ask one of them if you want to understand it well.
@@frubam Oh okay. thanks for responding. I ended up playing mostly mages so far though because of the clunky transitions some physical artes have or because some have too much recovery without a skip and also because asbel's sheathing and unsheathing is unfun to put up with with how slow both actions are and costing CC just to swap stances. For a character based off Iai sword style he sure doesn't feel like it when he is not swift and unpredictable like the style is known for. If they at least gave him titles throughout the story that decreases recovery time and removes the 1 cc cost and increased how fast he could sheathe and unsheathe eventually ending up with instant sheathes and unsheathes i would find his uniqueness fun. This easily has my favorite magic system for mages in the series though.
Since you are using Pascal in this video so there is something I want to ask. It's about Pascal's skill that she can learn from Master titles, the one that let her upgrade her current spell that she casting to higher tier, what is the purpose for doing this, what is the different between cast the Wind Needle first then upgrade it to Fearful Storm vs simply cast the Fearful Strom?
One of the things I can think of why is, if you're in a situation where you are not sure you'll have the time to cast higher-tier magic, you can start to cast a lower-tier one and, if you see you have enough time to cast that higher-tier one, you can do the upgrade. But, if, say, an enemy is about to hit you, you can fire off the lower-tier spell instead whereas if you tried for the higher-tier spell initially, you'd been hit or had to cancel it because the enemy would hit you. While the time used to cast the lower-tier spell will be applied to the higher-tier one, its still generally slower than just casting the higher-tier since you have to press an additional button to do it, though probably not slow enough to make a significant impact on the overall casting time. It might also be used if you want to try and fit other artes in your arte slots, while still having access to all of her 'basic elemental' spells(i.e. her 3CC WN/Spread/PR can also use her 4CC FS/M/IP and 5CC GS/Cyan/BF without taking up more slots).
@@frubam I see, thank you very muchfor the detailed explaination. To be honest I kinda expecting something more useful since those skills are from Master titles but at least it still give us an option and saving some slots.
Ahh, RIP 🙏🏾. You have my condolences, haha. I'm more or less as prepared for it as I'm willing to be, and my crew'll be taking it easy this gw(the heavy hitters went for top 2k last gw). I probably won't have to try too hard myself; straight tier A and slack😂
I couldn't tell you 😔. You can listen to it here ruclips.net/video/xjIG5qRC3ts/видео.htmlfeature=shared&t=2293 But I couldn't find the originator of the music sadly. Would have liked more music from the same artist if I knew.
Namco needs to officially endorse this cause it's such a clear and concise explanation on how this game works.
This video has been missing from the world ever since Graces' original release. Finding accurate info about this game's obscure mechanics was like pulling teeth. Thanks so much for this!
The only bit of relevant info that I think could be added (small omission) is with regards to hitting weaknesses and its effects. Aside from the indicated damage multiplier, there's the CC gain on hitting all weaknesses ("full power hits"/orange combo counter), relatively minor (don't know if there's a known formula), as well as preventing enemies from evading. Don't recall if that last bit applied on any weakness hits or if it required the full set.
@@NinetyNineNo Ah, that is good information. If I ever would make an extension to this, that would be one thing to add that I didn't think of. I don't even remember the part about preventing evasion from a full weakness hit enemy 😲, but it does feel like something i heard before 🤔. Was that in the Battle Tips? Or something you personally observed?
@@frubam I'd be lying if I told you exactly haha, I'd have to check. It's been a while, but I think it was in the battle tips. Oh, another relevant tidbit now that i think about it: how weight influences combos (enemies don't break out if they're being juggled/airborne and heavier enemies are harder to juggle, which is why certain monster bosses can be such a pain in the ass to combo).
@@rafaelcarmona3894 Yeah, that is a thing. I did know about it, but it never came to me to ever mention it D0=. Info like this/these ones make me realize there is still pertinent info to cover that could help players enjoy the game more. I just wish I had another month to put even more things together, but alas 😞
Sorry I wasn't able to review your last version before release. I was on business trip for a few days and couldn't find the time to do so.
Nonetheless, the added examples and revisions are very well done. As I said to you before, this is a very well done guide that goes through the most important misconceptions and it was a huge necessity to do that for Graces. Amazing job and many thanks for your contribution to the community.
No worries brother, your first comment pointed me in the right direction I needed to go in. To be honest, I was a bit nervous about posting it without your seal of approval, but I assumed you were busy, so... Nevertheless, it wouldn't have been as refined without your input, so I really appreciate it =03!
Videos like these are actually a big point why I was excited for the remaster to come out, so that people can make a bunch of new guides on how the game works. I hope people do this for the Xillia duology when those get remastered, thank you so much for the guide!
No problem =03! Glad you enjoyed it. And I was worried the video would be too long for people to be interested in it, so I appreciate the kind words.
@@frubam I can't speak for everyone, but for this kind of video, I do prefer them to be longer/more detailed, even if I don't 100% understand everything about it. You got the main points across, which was the most important part.
The section about Accuracy was particularly notable, I went like my whole life (of playing this game) under the false assumption that it just was the "hitstun" stat, but then last year I saw people saying "no it's the critical hit stat." So it's interesting that the answer is... sorta both. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but still.
Man, I REALLY overlooked that critical gauge and Acc. I wonder if I would've enjoyed the combat much more years ago if I had a better grasp instead of growing to kinda hate it as time went 😅
Great video. It makes me excited to do a new run while keeping some of these things in mind!
A much needed resource and a very well-made one at that, amazing job!
Thanks =03! I was worried it might be a bit convoluted with how I laid things out, but I feel better when veteran players think its well done 😀.
Never played a game where accuracy was such a deep stat before.
Thank you for this combat primer! Graces has always been shrouded in mystery regarding mechanics and it was really cool seeing what is fully under the hood! Crit gauge really does everything, huh?
Great work 💖
It does alot, but player skill and knowledge is equally important too =03. But yeah, the CG does a lot of lifting that is for sure, haha.
Thanks for this, well done! Sure beats having to skim through JP wikis again.
the JP wikis have all of this stuff documented 😮!? That's impressive in its own right. Funny enough, that Sparrow Seal example is one I remember WAYYY back when ps3 JP Graces f came out, but its still cool to have all of that kind of info in a readily-available source =03.
@@frubam They didn't have the specifics down this much!
Oh wow. I always thought ACC was the most important stat to focus on...
Oh wow, didn't expect an upload from you since it's been a while. Glad to see you're still at it!
Yeah, I was a bit burned out from Xillia 2 for sure. I just don't game like I used to anymore 😞. Still, I'll do what I can when the motivation strikes me well enough, haha.
Thanks for the video, there are many things I still don't know despite I'm on my 4th playthorugh already lol. This help me a lot.
You're welcome =03! Glad to be of service.
It's so good to see it all in one place after such a long time! :D
A few things I could swear I remember are enemy weight (enemies stuck to the ground are the worst!) and the fact that each arte has a critical multiplier, with A-Artes generally having higher critical multipliers but lower damage output and B-artes being the opposite.
That's a very well-made guide to explain mechanics that can certainly be frustrating to unaware players! I've played a lot of Graces f back in the day and I certainly didn't know all of it, though I remembered the basic thing of "Accuracy is super duper important", at least, haha!
I'm sure this video will help a lot of people jumping in with the Remastered version!
Thanks =03. Yeah, those Gamefaqs boards were full of that Accuracy stuff, as you remember. I can only hope this'll help, lol.
this was an amazing video
this video is amazing shout out to you.
much appreciated 🙏
This is such a great video! Congrats on this frubam, specially with how much stuff of ToGf is misunderstood
I don't think stagger time matters for how many times the enemy is hit perse, though. (Still watching sorry wanted to congratulate fast and now I'm editing lol)
Are you sure about this?
I do know there's stagger decay when an Arte isn't fresh as there's a penalty and each hitbox has its own stagger but I've never seen any comparison with combo hit but that'd be new information if that's the case
Perhaps I should have done more tests. And maybe something outside of a vacuum so-to-speak just to make sure it was correct =0v.
The particular test I did for this was using Sparrow Seal, since it had a high stagger value. I found the memory value that housed the "stagger time"(that being in quotes because it also activated when the enemy guarded. I suppose there's a minimum amount of frames before guard deactivates, unlike say, Xillia where you can slide-guard by mashing guard+free running😆, but that's just a guess).
I placed a breakpoint on that value and each time it changed, I could see when and how it changed. When I used Sparrow Seal and hit the enemy once, the value in that memory space increased once(to 84) and decremented by 1 until it reached 0. It would then jump back to 8 and decrement back to 0, which is what I assumed was its 'recovery' phase(again, a guess).
However, when I hit with all three hits, after the jump to 84, the counter dropped by a larger value twice, around 10 points, after a certain number of frames before showing the hit. Then again, after reaching 0, it would jump back to 8 and decrement by 1 to 0. Therefore, I had assumed that hits would lower the stagger time, as Muc had explained, but I am not actually sure now how other hits via other chars would effect this value, if at all.
@@frubam Ill mess around and ser what I get from datamining the PC ver but this is very good info!
I am mostly suspecting this for one reason only, if this was the case unclean hits mid animation would never break combos since extra hits should lower it.
There might be something odd at play here aaaa Graces is the eternal puzzle lol
This is an incredible resource. I only played the beta (Wii) version and never took it farther, so this is all good to know.
Do you think the Artes Ball and 0 SV mods will be ported to Remastered?
I dunno. That's sounds more like Sora3100's territory I'm afraid. Would be nice to have for sure for the new playthrough, but it'll probably be a while IF he feels up to it 😟.
Basically required viewing
Have you checked out the level up formulas? I forgot if this game still uses the destiny system where your equipment affects level up quality.
I... did not even know this was a thing 😯! That is interesting. How did it affect level up values exactly 🤔?
@@frubam No idea for graces that is why I ask if it even is a thing but in destiny the formula is based on your stats so equipment affects level ups. Don't know the exact formula right now.
man was any of this explained anywhere in game? I was operating on false info for so long. all that time wasted maxing out accuracy on weapons for stagger time😅 glad to go into the remaster with this new knowledge.
Was this stuff found out through datamining or just putting hours and hours into the game and noticing these things?
Well, I was in the same boat as you 😔... As for me, it was @Muctales that noticed the difference within the community that I was in back in the day(others might have noticed/commented, but for me, he's the first I remember noticing this stuff). I did personally look at internal information for this video specifically to make sure most of the stuff was accurate, especially about stagger times, and we weren't just deluding ourselves or something.
As much as I enjoy this game, passive evasion has to be one of the absolute most idiotic mechanics Namco has EVER put into one of these games. The enemy getting to "nuh uh" getting staggered by you on a dice roll is awful game design in a series where missing is a genuine skill issue
Not bamco as much as Team Destiny. ToD2(the rally one, not Eternia) was dreadfully worse fron what I've seen, so they actually have a track record for this lol.
Wait, your *defensive stats* influence how much CG you gain? I would have genuinely never guessed that, it just doesn't make sense lmao.
That' is Team Destiny for you 😆. Overly complicated for sure.
Any chance for an arte skip tutorial vid going over inputs showing when its done right and explaining why it works?
Honestly, I don't use Arte Skip, so I don't think I could make a video on that with confidence. I know @Muctales has a video on it, but it is old, and could use an upgraded version with more clarity. @Just_Samu and @Mysterica are doing solo Sophie runs, and they know it and use it very liberally and would probably be better to ask one of them if you want to understand it well.
@@frubam Oh okay. thanks for responding. I ended up playing mostly mages so far though because of the clunky transitions some physical artes have or because some have too much recovery without a skip and also because asbel's sheathing and unsheathing is unfun to put up with with how slow both actions are and costing CC just to swap stances. For a character based off Iai sword style he sure doesn't feel like it when he is not swift and unpredictable like the style is known for. If they at least gave him titles throughout the story that decreases recovery time and removes the 1 cc cost and increased how fast he could sheathe and unsheathe eventually ending up with instant sheathes and unsheathes i would find his uniqueness fun. This easily has my favorite magic system for mages in the series though.
Since you are using Pascal in this video so there is something I want to ask.
It's about Pascal's skill that she can learn from Master titles, the one that let her upgrade her current spell that she casting to higher tier, what is the purpose for doing this, what is the different between cast the Wind Needle first then upgrade it to Fearful Storm vs simply cast the Fearful Strom?
One of the things I can think of why is, if you're in a situation where you are not sure you'll have the time to cast higher-tier magic, you can start to cast a lower-tier one and, if you see you have enough time to cast that higher-tier one, you can do the upgrade. But, if, say, an enemy is about to hit you, you can fire off the lower-tier spell instead whereas if you tried for the higher-tier spell initially, you'd been hit or had to cancel it because the enemy would hit you.
While the time used to cast the lower-tier spell will be applied to the higher-tier one, its still generally slower than just casting the higher-tier since you have to press an additional button to do it, though probably not slow enough to make a significant impact on the overall casting time.
It might also be used if you want to try and fit other artes in your arte slots, while still having access to all of her 'basic elemental' spells(i.e. her 3CC WN/Spread/PR can also use her 4CC FS/M/IP and 5CC GS/Cyan/BF without taking up more slots).
@@frubam I see, thank you very muchfor the detailed explaination.
To be honest I kinda expecting something more useful since those skills are from Master titles but at least it still give us an option and saving some slots.
Tales of Graces about to drop but I won't be able to play until next week and water gw is next week, kinda fucked
Ahh, RIP 🙏🏾. You have my condolences, haha. I'm more or less as prepared for it as I'm willing to be, and my crew'll be taking it easy this gw(the heavy hitters went for top 2k last gw). I probably won't have to try too hard myself; straight tier A and slack😂
Incredible video.
What’s the song?
I couldn't tell you 😔. You can listen to it here
ruclips.net/video/xjIG5qRC3ts/видео.htmlfeature=shared&t=2293
But I couldn't find the originator of the music sadly. Would have liked more music from the same artist if I knew.
@ thank you
Do you think you'll do a video on the item system?
No, I don't have any plans to make a video about it, sorry =0(....
@@frubam No worries thanks for the amazing video