This was a fantastic introduction to slider saws! how I learned it as a construction worker in Texas, was it’s the best of a regular table saw 80% of the time, but flipped left to right and sometimes sideways. Shame they’re so specialized and expensive in the US! EDIT: if you’re getting a table saw for the first time, I strongly recommend you get in-person instruction first! Issues like kickback you can understand in concept, but like circular saws, there’s some non-intuitive behaviors in detail or context that’s extremely difficult to get your head around without hands-on experience
You do have to spend some time setting the saw up... blade, fence, etc. But once done, the saw is great. Fairly compact which is Nice ruclips.net/user/postUgkxXh-4_3-ZT1fFWP91ZV7iVqzElr0lEb-a I did get an Incra Miter Gauge which takes some setup as well. The stock miter gauge can be adjusted in the miter slot with a little painter's tape... this tightens up the side to side play a lot.
Great video, seeing people cross cut against the fence gives me the creeps every time! So good to educate the newer woodworkers rather than them learning the hard way!
@Slim Savage I get what you're saying, but kickback is no joke bro, your hands can't hold onto that wood if the blade grabs it. I had a little incident with my router table once where I fed it the wrong direction, because same as you, I too was a youtube taught woodworker, and I wasn't paying very close attention during class, so in practice, I made some mistakes too, and this was one of the big ones, my tiny little router table grabbed a small piece I was trying to put a rabbet on, and flung it SO hard across my shop, it dented my cupboards, I'm rather glad I followed at least one rule and wasn't standing to either side of it because that could have hurt me pretty bad. Table saws are much more powerful and have much more surface area than a router bit to grab onto that wood and sling it at you, be very careful bro. Also, list it for sale on FB marketplace, it's rife with idiots bargain hunting, so you will find someone to take it off your hands.
@D. Lindsay It is not if you will experience kickback sometime in the future it is when so I recommend to stop. Use a circular saw and a speed square as a straight edge for those boards that you can not crosscut.
Ok. Google recommend one of your video 2 days back. And im adicted to it. I have seen almost 60% of your videos till now. I haven't looked at yiur subscribers till this video. And it really shocked me. You are the most underrated youtuber ever.... Great info. Completely fresh content. Tqsm
Here in North America, we’re pretty stupid and use cabinet saws. A few of us are smart. I just bought a felder 700S with the 3 metre table. I built a fritz and Franz jig for it and I use it all the time.
I live in Canada and i am a cabinet maker. And have been working in the trade fore more than 20 years now and have used or seen at least 10 or maybe more different models of sliding table saws with and without scoring blades on them awesome saws
Your explanation of the kick back was very good. Basically, a piece of wood like that should be on a sled or the mitre square. No fence. Dad was a shop teacher and drilled that in my head. Thank you for showing your sliding table saw and explaining its use.
Just want to say, best explanation of kickback I have come across! Really really easy to understand, love how you drew a parallel to how draws get stuck - it made it very clear.
Sorry to be off topic but does anyone know a way to log back into an instagram account..? I was stupid lost the password. I would love any help you can give me!
I live and worked as a cabinetmaker for 35 years in the US and we used 10' sliding table saws. We purchased them when we needed to make a higher quality cabinet because we needed square parts and sheets goods do not always come square. The fence on a 10' machine should always be at head of the table so you push into it, once you get use to it, it is very natural. As far as price goes if you want to build quality you have to have the right tools
Not just quality,but accuracy and speed too.The scoring blade is a huge plus when cutting veneers and melamines and a panel saw is much faster and more accurate than any American type cabinet saw and even a track saw. ANy serious cabinet maker should either have a panel saw or CNC machine for cutting carcass parts which is the way many are going.
What a great table saw, never seen one like it before and I served in Germany for 4 years, and the wood shop on base had a regular North American style. Saw Stop is not the only one now, Bosch has one out that is supposed to be as good. The o ly difference is the Bosch saw doesn't destroy your blade, as a charge detonates when it detects flesh and shove the blade all the way down. The other advantage to the Bosch saw is the detonator comes with 2 charges in it so you just turn it around and you're ready to try that again. This info is from what I have read on the internet and I do not have one as they cost as much as a Sawstop, so that put it out of my reach. Just thought you'd like to know.
@@danielmunch9568 I know, my company has 12. Profit H500 MT, Kappa Auto, Tempora F400. But the Kappa table saws (which we don't have) are just the same as Felder saws but with a larger capacity and setup automation added to it.
Love the sliding top. I wish I had one in my shop, but the budget and the floor space won't allow it. Thanks for showing us around the saw though. Really well done!
I have worked on both an Altendorff and an SCM sliding table saw both very nice machines and are great to use. But i find that if you build side tables and an out feed table for a contractors / cabinet style saw with various things like a sled a few “L” fences and the rest that works really well. I find that sliding table saws are great if you are constantly machining sheet stock which i just don’t i build furniture. I have always found that no matter how big your new shop is it is always not big enough when you start to dream. It really boils down to what work you do. you don’t buy a pickup truck if your job is hauling gravel all day you don’t buy a dump truck if you deliver packages for work.
Great video! The weird thing about the larger sliding saws like you used previously, is that the crosscut fence is actually on the opposite side - you push against it with the wood, instead of pushing the wood with the fence. I believe the reason for this is that its much easier to load up full sheets from the back and cut them this way, which is crucial in a fast paced production environment where a lot of cuts are being made. Those large sliding saws are by far the fastest way to cut sheet goods with high accuracy - much more efficient than the "rough cut with a circular saw and then refine the dimensions with a table saw" method most DIYers use. But keep in mind - these big saws aren't only huge, they're also expensive. Often 10x more expensive than a DIY table saw, job site saw or track saw of decent quality. This efficiency matters when you cut 100s of sheets, not for a home gamer. I think for a hobbyist, the size Alexandre shows here (and also the saw used by Marius H in his videos) is the ideal size enjoying the best of both worlds. Most importantly - as safe as sliding saws can be, no table saw is foolproof. My dad has been a carpenter for over 30 years, works exclusively with a top tier full size sliding saw, and still over his career managed to snag fingers on a spinning blade twice, both requiring ER visits and stitches. No machine can guarantee safety.
1. You can swap the fence so u dont need to press your wood against it 2. this type of table saws arent that expensive. I have the same saw just with an 3m sliding table and Ive bought it for 2000€.
Im fine and didnt get injured, but I watched only regular table saw safety videos before using a friends saw like you have. I didnt know that you should not use both fences at the same time, as you mentioned at 12:36. I was lucky to get away with that situation just with couple scares and ruined material (at least for sizes needed for that project). Once I learned my mistake I really liked the saw and I totaly agree that this type of sliding saw is better and in many cases safer.
Instead of building a sled for cutting short pieces, you can also clamp a piece of wood (higher than the height of the saw) to the moving fence extending beyond the saw to support them
A great video! Not a lot of this type of info available, especially in the US, which is why I started a channel that's featuring a Hammer B3 unit. I was just about to buy a SawStop when I decided to really research sliding table saws and I ended up with a Hammer. While the Hammer costs more and I had to wait a while for it (thanks Covid!), I'm glad I bought it. I'd repeat in a heartbeat.
I agree that there's not much info out here in the US and that's actually why I'm going to start a channel featuring a Minimax C 26G. I've been waiting for it to come from Italy for the past 6mo (thanks again COVID). I was about to buy a set of Laguna machines but stumbled across the Hammer series by accident...went down a rabbit hole and several dozen emails later I ended up with one machine that does it all. Definitely can't wait to try mine out. I'm glad you like your B3! Great machine!
Wally West, I will love to see your machine in action. I appreciate modern 5-function machines, and the Mini Max caught my eye! If you start a channel, I pledge to subscribe! Best of luck!
@@leehaelters6182 I had the MiniMax Technomax for years and loved it ! I recently retired and sold it, but never had any problems with it. Stayed accurate for all ten years that I used it. Customer service was better with them than with Felder and the price was quite a bit less too ! Grizzly also makes a compact sliding panel saw that you might want to check out as well.
I switched to a sliding table saw a coupe of years ago and will never go back. Mine is the cheaper Shop Fox W1811, but with an annual tune up to keep things aligned it works great. The only downsides: it takes up a 10' x 12' area for full motion capability with a full sheet of plywood on it, and it does take a little time to get your work processes changed. But if you have the space there is nothing like using one, I've built a simple little jig for cutting small parts on it and it works a charm.
Alexandre - Thanks for taking the time to answer questions about your saw from myself and others. I live in southern California, have a 25 year old "monolithic" Delta contractor's saw, which does benefit from minimal to no adjustments, plus a nice, solid crosscut sled I made. It sounds like a tracksaw is my next project, and I'll leave movable-top saws to people with more shop space than me. I've spent a significant fraction of my life in Zug and Lucerne ("Grüezi!"), and Breda NL, but unfortunately not at a time in my life when I was making contact with Makers. Thanks, by the way, for doing everything in metric!
Steve Johnson Zug, Lucerne, Breda? I know what company you work for. 🙂 And yes, a track saw is a must have for making accurate cuts when breaking down plywood.
Steve, sorry you didn't know me. I recently retired and moved from So. Cal and sold my panel saw ! I sold it to a contractor in Ontario ! I did purchase a Makita track saw to fill my retirement mode though !
Saws like the larger one you showed with the telescoping arm under to support the weight out wide are or at least were standard fare in non-CNC joinery shops making kitchens and bathrooms and other stuff like that from MDF or whatever else. I grew up with access to those kinds of table saws and won't buy a table saw until I can afford one like that. For cutting big sheets with just one person, nothing touches them. By far the best.
The ability to cut a full 4 x 8 sheet good safely with little effort, count me in! Sawstop needs to get to get those development engineers back to work. :P
Sorry the Europeans are way ahead of what we make here in America as far as panel saw go's The safety systems on European saws are much better than whats on a SawStop. A previous post points this out.
In Germany we only use format tablesaws. They're the best. The US are constantly building stops, sliding jigs and other gismos to compensate for not having a formatsaw.
Grizzly makes them too and at a much better price ! I just sold my panel saw and it was made by SCMI which is the largest manufacturer of these type saws in the world and the price of them is better than those of Felder. Felder by comparison is a small Co.
@@dannyh.7490 Sorry to rain in your parade, but you just said, is a Toyota Corola is better than a Rolls Royce, nothing compares to FELDER or the smaller branch of the company, named HAMMER, so you need to get your facts right, by the way maybe i am wrong, but SCMI, is made in China, not Europe
@@tonyjordao2595 SCM is much better quality than Felder, SCM panel saws are made in Italy and not china. I own SCM L'invincibile six and felder kappa 590 both top of the line panel saw but SCM is years ahead of felder. But if you want the top of the top you buy Martin. don't get me wrong folder makes great machines and a lot of them (cheaper ones) are made in china.
Bosch's Reaxx line of saws has tech similar to a Saw Stop, but even better, because you don't damage your blade. Unfortuantely, SawStop sued to stop Bosch from selling them in the US, while lobbying the government to try to make their own tech mandatory on saws, by law. I don't know if things have changed, but it put SawStop in a bad light, to me.
SawStop successfully defended their patent in court--as any patent holder has the right to do. Government lobbying had nothing to do with it. Felder's PCS technology works by a totally different mechanism (magnetic rather than electrical resistance) and not likely to violate SawStop's patent.
@@geraldyungling3334 the lobbying was a separate point where they tried to get the government to force everyone to license their patent by making saws without that sort of safety feature illegal.
@@benjaminlorrig9299 Yeah that's called trying to have a monopoly then charge anything they want for the product. It says a lot about how greedy the SawStop people are.
SawStop is now owned by Festool but they still do not sell their table saws into Europe or UK. Festool do sell in Europe a contractors saw using the SawStop technology. It is maybe worth pointing out that using a sliding saw like a Fedler normal saw practice does place your hands well away from the blade.
Well Gass who invented the saw stop device spent for years being blown off by USA saw manufacturers to the point 4 years later he decided to manufacture saw stop saws.
I had a Sawstop 5hp Industrial model, with the sliding table option. It was one of 3 table saws in my shop. It was excellent in every way. My observation was the sliding table was great, particularly for breaking down sheet goods. It also excelled cutting tenons. However, it did limit or obviated some of my favorite shop-made and purchased fixtures. Also, since I had an excellent sliding compound miter saw it offered little advantage for cross cutting rails, stiles, etc.. In practice I used a premium crosscut blade on my miter saws and premium rip or combination blades on the Sawstop. For the production environment, the sliding table can be a huge advantage, but for my widely varying needs it’s advantage was not worth the expense. I would not likely I’d buy one again. For the, hobbyist, who adapts the table saw to mimic certain stand-alone machines the sliding table can be a showstopper. I can’t make a “blanket” recommendation either way for a hobbyist. Each woodworker needs to carefully assess their needs and make an informed decision.
I have used a huge Felder (new) at Marc Adams School of Woodworking in Indiana. It is a wonderful saw...but with a huge footprint. For specific tasks it is a great advantage. Great review and thanks for posting!
Realmente grandioso saber que tengas la cualidad de explicar muy claramente detalle a detalle, tus tutoriales . Te lo dice un varon de 50 años de edad. DIOS te bendiga.
By the looks of it, that is far superior than what we have here in the us. You just have so much more ability to rip bigger sheets of wood and you almost don't even need a sled
I dont know if you have one, but for flimsy long panels you can make a foldable sawhorse with roller on top at the exact height of your tablesaw. You put it at the end of your guide to support longer panels. Only for panels
8:30 There's another trick as well, which I use whenever I can't see if the diagonals are the exact same (such as micrometer differences which can't be measured with a measuring tape. Just take an angle iron and push it up against the corners. If there's a gap between any of the sides of the angle iron and your work piece, then the piece is still crooked. The angle iron has to sit perfectly flat against the piece in order for it to be perfectly square. This trick also works with rounded corners, given your angle iron is long enough.
Felder offers a superior safety system. It will engage the system before your finger touches and it won't ruin your blade. It works off of electro magnets. At this time it's only offered in the Format 4 commercial grade. In the US it's around $30,000.00 USD.
Whenever I see a smaller sliding table saw it always makes me wonder if I should get one. Outside of some of the cons you mentioned though the main ones for me (and I would assume any hobbyist woodworker) are price and footprint. Especially for US buyers who can rarely find the smaller versions second hand, the saws are extremely expensive compared to even Sawstops. Second while the non-moving footprint may be similar in order to take advantage of the sliding functions you need essentially twice the floor space if not more. Unfortunately it simply makes more sense to get a standard table saw and for anything bigger just use a track saw. Loved the explanations though :)
There is a little company in Italy, Rimini that also makes a few sliding table saws: SCM. Change subject, if you are eating lunch and do that much movement with your hands there may be lots of food all over the table and floor. I have the Felder shaper and really like the performance and I understand your enthusiasm.
Yep, it’s a bit of an exaggeration. I’ve got a similar machine, a Minimax CU300 combination with a 2.5m sliding table which I purchased used as a ten year old machine and had shipped from over 1000km away. Despite the journey strapped to a pallet, it arrived and everything was dead on square and accurate, after several years use it is still just as accurate. I’ve not had to adjust the slider or calibrate the fence at all. Like the Felder it’s an industrial grade machine built to stay accurate under constant commercial use.
A couple things you missed. One big plus to sliding table saw is the scoring blade. It is a small blade infront of the cutting blade. It completely eliminates the tear out you always get on plywood. Now two negatives. Depending on the brand of saw you have it can be very difficult to get a zero clearance insert. I have a Robland combanation machine. And make my own. It is not fun. Next negative is again depending on the machine. On some you may not be able to put a stack dado on it. They have looked down on stacked dado's in the uk for years. But they are starting to come around.
Well, Felder has something to offer it is called PCS and it won't require to buy expensive cartridges when incident happens, instead it lowers the blade with powerful electromagnets, and allows to resume work in seconds.
That is a very nice saw. In my opinion the best table saw currently available is the martin t75 prex. It can do bevel cuts both directions and has vacuum work holding options.
The only times I’ve wanted a sliding table is when I have to cut a dado on a really long awkward piece that’s too big for a sled. It’s very difficult to keep large workpieces square against the fence AND provide downward force to keep dado depth consistent simultaneously.
Very interesting video! 👍🏻 Glad you mentioned the danger of kickbacks at the parallel fence of regular tablesaws. I think it’s so important to be able to pull back the fence. I definitly prefere working on sliding tablesaws like you!
Another checking for square technique you can use is the 3-4-5 technique. Good for really large pieces that is difficult to do diagonal measurements. Basically on each corner measure 3 units one side and 4 units the other side (creating 2 sides of a right triangle) and measure the distance between the two measurements (the hypotenuse) and it should be 5 units. Opposing right triangles make the piece square. Practical use of Pythagorean theorem. :)
I believe that Felder now makes a saw that has a similar feature to a SawStop but doesn't require replacing the expensive cartridge and blade if the devise is triggered. Unfortunately Felder saws are very expensive here in Canada.
Alexandre, I am surprised that you could discuss a slider without reference to a "Fritz and Franz" fixture. This will lift the range and performance of a slider to another level. Go and search for it.
Being from the U.S. sliding table saw are available, have been for a good number of years now. To be fair, it's best to have both, traditional TS and a sliding TS. Never been a fan of sawstop since they were trying to force other manufacturers go to their style of TS. Cheers :)
15:00 Felder does have what they call PCS on their high-end Format4 550 e-motion PCS. It works in the same way as a SawStop but it doesn't need a new cartridge. It can be reset by pressing a button. Love your videos
Festool also came out with a saw that has the same technology. Extremely expensive ofc. Bosch made a system called reaxx but they for sued from SawStop for infringing patents.
We have a saw stop industrial at my shop and it has a sliding piece that you can buy that is way smaller than the one you showed but it’s not as compact as yours.
I have to say I was skeptical during the first seconds. But I really enjoyed your video. I'm stuck in a efffing city and can't go back home where I would buy one of these things, even if I am just a beginner. I also reallyl loved explanation about tricks and safety, they never get old Cheers from Italy
good to finaly see a type of table saw i'm used to on a youtube video.... funny thing is, we had the same model .. in the design school i did my masters :-)
Funny, that saw was sold by a Norwegian company (Falkenberg, selling a lot of high end pro wood cutting equipment, saws, cnc’s etc) remember the model.
Thank you so much for the input on the table saw that looks like an awesome saw. I have the same type of sliding feature on my saw stop and have been happy with it so far. but the one you're showing looks even better. thank you again and by the way the shop looks neat and organized and that's the way I keep mine and love it so I appreciate someone else who does the same and thank you thank you from Doug
This was really cool just to see a different style of saw and your reasons for using it. I don't necessarily need a tablesaw but always enjoy hearing the rationale for why a tool is a great tool for the job, especially from someone who does the job well. Keep up the great videos, they are varied in content and style but all so interesting and entertaining.
One you use a sliding table saw, you will not want to go back. It makes a world of difference when the table carry's and guides the work. But they are not small shop friendly. They require much more room.
Thanks, and a great video! Sawstop now makes a sliding tablesaw, but considering the price, I’ve decided to buy a Festool cordless tracksaw and their folding sawing table. Takes up less room, costs 1/3 the price (or 1/2 with dust collection), and works in the Home Depot parking lot to cut pieces that fit in my truckbed. And by keeping my hands above the saw, I still get to keep all my fingers. Also, it appears that Festool has licensed Sawstop technology, but I doubt they will sell them in the US… though if anyone can figure out how to make a tracksaw that instantly shuts off before it cuts your finger off, it’s probably Festool.
SawStop does not make a sliding table saw. They have sliding table extensions that attach to a traditional cabinet saw. Doesn't work quite the same since the slider isn't right up against the blade.
Hi .. just a correction. All the major sliding table saw brands have flesh sensing technology. Felder has it on their higher spec models. For cutting small pieces, you can use a Fritz and Frans jig for a sliding table saw. It is possible to get a saw specified with a dado arbor that allows you to use dado tooling. Not the same as the dado stacks in the USA, but similar.
Most of the German manufacturers have other security measures for your fingers, so they don't need saw stop. Those also don't destroy the saw blade. Also there are some saws, which can angle the blade to both sides.
Сlamps can be installed there in T-slot and you can cut small pieces of material. to get the desired size, I put the mod an emphasis on 10-20cm. and so I can cut a strip of 10 mm from material 2-3 cm wide, or as much as you like, because you can set the exact size on the ruler. this saw has no drawback except that if you follow the rules it is difficult to cut off fingers
I guess your saw doesn't have a scoring blade since you didn't mention it. Working with melamine it's a must, even cross cutting plywood it's so nice to have, no more zero clearance inserts or taping stuff or putting something under, just cut it and it's perfect. And if you ever do need a zero clearance without the scoring blade, what I did was just get a 3-4mm MDF and put it one the sliding table with the fence in front and then just cut a slot in it not going all the way down the piece which is why you need the fence in front and then just put the workpiece on top and keep cutting the small pieces without them getting sucked down the gap and to make sure the MDF didn't move I would use a clamp that goes in the groove of the sliding table.
Hey, Alexandre. I know the video is over 1 year old now. There is a Felder saw kappa 550 that has their PCS system, built-in , but it is probably really expensive and for professional use. And another European brand, Festool (also owns SawStop) has a table saw that has the safety feature built-in.
Hi! Do you know how to cut a board(2,5-3m) to length on a short sliding table (1600mm) ? Not by pushing the board by hand along the fence, but exactly on the carriage.
I really like your editing style. Jump-cutting the video while keeping the audio flowing is amazing!
This was a fantastic introduction to slider saws! how I learned it as a construction worker in Texas, was it’s the best of a regular table saw 80% of the time, but flipped left to right and sometimes sideways. Shame they’re so specialized and expensive in the US!
EDIT: if you’re getting a table saw for the first time, I strongly recommend you get in-person instruction first! Issues like kickback you can understand in concept, but like circular saws, there’s some non-intuitive behaviors in detail or context that’s extremely difficult to get your head around without hands-on experience
You do have to spend some time setting the saw up... blade, fence, etc. But once done, the saw is great. Fairly compact which is Nice ruclips.net/user/postUgkxXh-4_3-ZT1fFWP91ZV7iVqzElr0lEb-a I did get an Incra Miter Gauge which takes some setup as well. The stock miter gauge can be adjusted in the miter slot with a little painter's tape... this tightens up the side to side play a lot.
Great video, seeing people cross cut against the fence gives me the creeps every time! So good to educate the newer woodworkers rather than them learning the hard way!
Oof. That’s just asking for trouble.
A hut
@Slim Savage I get what you're saying, but kickback is no joke bro, your hands can't hold onto that wood if the blade grabs it. I had a little incident with my router table once where I fed it the wrong direction, because same as you, I too was a youtube taught woodworker, and I wasn't paying very close attention during class, so in practice, I made some mistakes too, and this was one of the big ones, my tiny little router table grabbed a small piece I was trying to put a rabbet on, and flung it SO hard across my shop, it dented my cupboards, I'm rather glad I followed at least one rule and wasn't standing to either side of it because that could have hurt me pretty bad. Table saws are much more powerful and have much more surface area than a router bit to grab onto that wood and sling it at you, be very careful bro.
Also, list it for sale on FB marketplace, it's rife with idiots bargain hunting, so you will find someone to take it off your hands.
@D. Lindsay It is not if you will experience kickback sometime in the future it is when so I recommend to stop. Use a circular saw and a speed square as a straight edge for those boards that you can not crosscut.
Ok. Google recommend one of your video 2 days back. And im adicted to it. I have seen almost 60% of your videos till now. I haven't looked at yiur subscribers till this video. And it really shocked me. You are the most underrated youtuber ever.... Great info. Completely fresh content. Tqsm
Here in North America, we’re pretty stupid and use cabinet saws. A few of us are smart. I just bought a felder 700S with the 3 metre table. I built a fritz and Franz jig for it and I use it all the time.
Hello French River Springs. Yeah, can’t wait for my new K 700 S to arrive!
I live in Canada and i am a cabinet maker. And have been working in the trade fore more than 20 years now and have used or seen at least 10 or maybe more different models of sliding table saws with and without scoring blades on them awesome saws
Your explanation of the kick back was very good. Basically, a piece of wood like that should be on a sled or the mitre square. No fence. Dad was a shop teacher and drilled that in my head.
Thank you for showing your sliding table saw and explaining its use.
Just want to say, best explanation of kickback I have come across! Really really easy to understand, love how you drew a parallel to how draws get stuck - it made it very clear.
Sorry to be off topic but does anyone know a way to log back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid lost the password. I would love any help you can give me!
@Devin Rohan Instablaster :)
I live and worked as a cabinetmaker for 35 years in the US and we used 10' sliding table saws. We purchased them when we needed to make a higher quality cabinet because we needed square parts and sheets goods do not always come square. The fence on a 10' machine should always be at head of the table so you push into it, once you get use to it, it is very natural. As far as price goes if you want to build quality you have to have the right tools
Not just quality,but accuracy and speed too.The scoring blade is a huge plus when cutting veneers and melamines and a panel saw is much faster and more accurate than any American type cabinet saw and even a track saw. ANy serious cabinet maker should either have a panel saw or CNC machine for cutting carcass parts which is the way many are going.
Wrong
What a great table saw, never seen one like it before and I served in Germany for 4 years, and the wood shop on base had a regular North American style. Saw Stop is not the only one now, Bosch has one out that is supposed to be as good. The o ly difference is the Bosch saw doesn't destroy your blade, as a charge detonates when it detects flesh and shove the blade all the way down. The other advantage to the Bosch saw is the detonator comes with 2 charges in it so you just turn it around and you're ready to try that again. This info is from what I have read on the internet and I do not have one as they cost as much as a Sawstop, so that put it out of my reach. Just thought you'd like to know.
Didn't know that we have international known tablesaw manufacturers here in Austria.
Well, the more you know!
And thank you for the great content.
Felder equipment is VERY highly regarded in the US (among those of us who know).
@@paulheitkemper1559 Felder also owns Hammer (affordable for DIY and small business), Format 4 (CNC) and Mayer (automation).
@@mururoa7024 yes. Marius Hornberger uses a Hammer, as I recall.
Muru Roa format 4 is the premium brand of felder.
@@danielmunch9568 I know, my company has 12. Profit H500 MT, Kappa Auto, Tempora F400. But the Kappa table saws (which we don't have) are just the same as Felder saws but with a larger capacity and setup automation added to it.
Love the sliding top. I wish I had one in my shop, but the budget and the floor space won't allow it. Thanks for showing us around the saw though. Really well done!
Very clear and easy to understand. Excellent vid. Subscribed.
I have worked on both an Altendorff and an SCM sliding table saw both very nice machines and are great to use. But i find that if you build side tables and an out feed table for a contractors / cabinet style saw with various things like a sled a few “L” fences and the rest that works really well. I find that sliding table saws are great if you are constantly machining sheet stock which i just don’t i build furniture. I have always found that no matter how big your new shop is it is always not big enough when you start to dream. It really boils down to what work you do. you don’t buy a pickup truck if your job is hauling gravel all day you don’t buy a dump truck if you deliver packages for work.
Great video! The weird thing about the larger sliding saws like you used previously, is that the crosscut fence is actually on the opposite side - you push against it with the wood, instead of pushing the wood with the fence. I believe the reason for this is that its much easier to load up full sheets from the back and cut them this way, which is crucial in a fast paced production environment where a lot of cuts are being made. Those large sliding saws are by far the fastest way to cut sheet goods with high accuracy - much more efficient than the "rough cut with a circular saw and then refine the dimensions with a table saw" method most DIYers use.
But keep in mind - these big saws aren't only huge, they're also expensive. Often 10x more expensive than a DIY table saw, job site saw or track saw of decent quality. This efficiency matters when you cut 100s of sheets, not for a home gamer. I think for a hobbyist, the size Alexandre shows here (and also the saw used by Marius H in his videos) is the ideal size enjoying the best of both worlds.
Most importantly - as safe as sliding saws can be, no table saw is foolproof. My dad has been a carpenter for over 30 years, works exclusively with a top tier full size sliding saw, and still over his career managed to snag fingers on a spinning blade twice, both requiring ER visits and stitches. No machine can guarantee safety.
1. You can swap the fence so u dont need to press your wood against it
2. this type of table saws arent that expensive. I have the same saw just with an 3m sliding table and Ive bought it for 2000€.
@@danielmunch9568 a full sized one new costs about $10,000 where I live, and second hand aren't much cheaper as only large shops buy them
you can combine your sliding table fence with your rip fence to cut small pieces. as long as you have your rip fence before the saw blade.
Im fine and didnt get injured, but I watched only regular table saw safety videos before using a friends saw like you have. I didnt know that you should not use both fences at the same time, as you mentioned at 12:36. I was lucky to get away with that situation just with couple scares and ruined material (at least for sizes needed for that project). Once I learned my mistake I really liked the saw and I totaly agree that this type of sliding saw is better and in many cases safer.
Instead of building a sled for cutting short pieces, you can also clamp a piece of wood (higher than the height of the saw) to the moving fence extending beyond the saw to support them
A great video! Not a lot of this type of info available, especially in the US, which is why I started a channel that's featuring a Hammer B3 unit. I was just about to buy a SawStop when I decided to really research sliding table saws and I ended up with a Hammer. While the Hammer costs more and I had to wait a while for it (thanks Covid!), I'm glad I bought it. I'd repeat in a heartbeat.
I agree that there's not much info out here in the US and that's actually why I'm going to start a channel featuring a Minimax C 26G. I've been waiting for it to come from Italy for the past 6mo (thanks again COVID). I was about to buy a set of Laguna machines but stumbled across the Hammer series by accident...went down a rabbit hole and several dozen emails later I ended up with one machine that does it all. Definitely can't wait to try mine out. I'm glad you like your B3! Great machine!
@@P010010010100101 PM me when you get your channel up and running!
@@CutitwithaHammer sounds good!
Wally West, I will love to see your machine in action. I appreciate modern 5-function machines, and the Mini Max caught my eye! If you start a channel, I pledge to subscribe! Best of luck!
@@leehaelters6182 I had the MiniMax Technomax for years and loved it ! I recently retired and sold it, but never had any problems with it. Stayed accurate for all ten years that I used it. Customer service was better with them than with Felder and the price was quite a bit less too ! Grizzly also makes a compact sliding panel saw that you might want to check out as well.
Best explanation of kickback!
I switched to a sliding table saw a coupe of years ago and will never go back. Mine is the cheaper Shop Fox W1811, but with an annual tune up to keep things aligned it works great. The only downsides: it takes up a 10' x 12' area for full motion capability with a full sheet of plywood on it, and it does take a little time to get your work processes changed. But if you have the space there is nothing like using one, I've built a simple little jig for cutting small parts on it and it works a charm.
Alexandre - Thanks for taking the time to answer questions about your saw from myself and others. I live in southern California, have a 25 year old "monolithic" Delta contractor's saw, which does benefit from minimal to no adjustments, plus a nice, solid crosscut sled I made. It sounds like a tracksaw is my next project, and I'll leave movable-top saws to people with more shop space than me.
I've spent a significant fraction of my life in Zug and Lucerne ("Grüezi!"), and Breda NL, but unfortunately not at a time in my life when I was making contact with Makers.
Thanks, by the way, for doing everything in metric!
Steve Johnson Zug, Lucerne, Breda? I know what company you work for. 🙂 And yes, a track saw is a must have for making accurate cuts when breaking down plywood.
@@jeanchapman1301 :-) Hi, Jean - I imagine you do. Had a great time while I was there, and really appreciative of my patient and tolerant family.
Steve, sorry you didn't know me. I recently retired and moved from So. Cal and sold my panel saw ! I sold it to a contractor in Ontario ! I did purchase a Makita track saw to fill my retirement mode though !
Saws like the larger one you showed with the telescoping arm under to support the weight out wide are or at least were standard fare in non-CNC joinery shops making kitchens and bathrooms and other stuff like that from MDF or whatever else. I grew up with access to those kinds of table saws and won't buy a table saw until I can afford one like that. For cutting big sheets with just one person, nothing touches them. By far the best.
Ha, Altendorf is one of the brands I have used in the past :-)
The ability to cut a full 4 x 8 sheet good safely with little effort, count me in! Sawstop needs to get to get those development engineers back to work. :P
Sorry the Europeans are way ahead of what we make here in America as far as panel saw go's The safety systems on European saws are much better than whats on a SawStop. A previous post points this out.
Sawstop needs to stop guarding a technology that belongs on every power tool. Can you imagine if only Teslas had seatbelts?
In Germany we only use format tablesaws. They're the best. The US are constantly building stops, sliding jigs and other gismos to compensate for not having a formatsaw.
I’ve never seen a saw like this and I’m extremely jealous.
Grizzly makes them too and at a much better price ! I just sold my panel saw and it was made by SCMI which is the largest manufacturer of these type saws in the world and the price of them is better than those of Felder. Felder by comparison is a small Co.
@@dannyh.7490 Sorry to rain in your parade, but you just said, is a Toyota Corola is better than a Rolls Royce, nothing compares to FELDER or the smaller branch of the company, named HAMMER, so you need to get your facts right, by the way maybe i am wrong, but SCMI, is made in China, not Europe
I would say, It is pretty basic saw. Have you ever heard about something like Martin T75, but price is crazy
@@tonyjordao2595 SCM is much better quality than Felder, SCM panel saws are made in Italy and not china. I own SCM L'invincibile six and felder kappa 590 both top of the line panel saw but SCM is years ahead of felder. But if you want the top of the top you buy Martin. don't get me wrong folder makes great machines and a lot of them (cheaper ones) are made in china.
Excellent overview of sliding saws.
I think these table saws are more populaire in Europe I love these!
Bosch's Reaxx line of saws has tech similar to a Saw Stop, but even better, because you don't damage your blade. Unfortuantely, SawStop sued to stop Bosch from selling them in the US, while lobbying the government to try to make their own tech mandatory on saws, by law. I don't know if things have changed, but it put SawStop in a bad light, to me.
SawStop successfully defended their patent in court--as any patent holder has the right to do. Government lobbying had nothing to do with it. Felder's PCS technology works by a totally different mechanism (magnetic rather than electrical resistance) and not likely to violate SawStop's patent.
@@geraldyungling3334 the lobbying was a separate point where they tried to get the government to force everyone to license their patent by making saws without that sort of safety feature illegal.
@@benjaminlorrig9299 Yeah that's called trying to have a monopoly then charge anything they want for the product. It says a lot about how greedy the SawStop people are.
SawStop is now owned by Festool but they still do not sell their table saws into Europe or UK. Festool do sell in Europe a contractors saw using the SawStop technology. It is maybe worth pointing out that using a sliding saw like a Fedler normal saw practice does place your hands well away from the blade.
Well Gass who invented the saw stop device spent for years being blown off by USA saw manufacturers to the point 4 years later he decided to manufacture saw stop saws.
I had a Sawstop 5hp Industrial model, with the sliding table option. It was one of 3 table saws in my shop. It was excellent in every way. My observation was the sliding table was great, particularly for breaking down sheet goods. It also excelled cutting tenons. However, it did limit or obviated some of my favorite shop-made and purchased fixtures. Also, since I had an excellent sliding compound miter saw it offered little advantage for cross cutting rails, stiles, etc.. In practice I used a premium crosscut blade on my miter saws and premium rip or combination blades on the Sawstop. For the production environment, the sliding table can be a huge advantage, but for my widely varying needs it’s advantage was not worth the expense. I would not likely I’d buy one again. For the, hobbyist, who adapts the table saw to mimic certain stand-alone machines the sliding table can be a showstopper. I can’t make a “blanket” recommendation either way for a hobbyist. Each woodworker needs to carefully assess their needs and make an informed decision.
I have used a huge Felder (new) at Marc Adams School of Woodworking in Indiana. It is a wonderful saw...but with a huge footprint. For specific tasks it is a great advantage. Great review and thanks for posting!
I’ll take one like this any day over a traditional saw even though I’ve never used a sliding table before.
Realmente grandioso saber que tengas la cualidad de explicar muy claramente detalle a detalle, tus tutoriales . Te lo dice un varon de 50 años de edad. DIOS te bendiga.
Consider the grand daddy and inventor of the sliding table saw, Altendorf.
By the looks of it, that is far superior than what we have here in the us. You just have so much more ability to rip bigger sheets of wood and you almost don't even need a sled
I dont know if you have one, but for flimsy long panels you can make a foldable sawhorse with roller on top at the exact height of your tablesaw. You put it at the end of your guide to support longer panels. Only for panels
8:30 There's another trick as well, which I use whenever I can't see if the diagonals are the exact same (such as micrometer differences which can't be measured with a measuring tape. Just take an angle iron and push it up against the corners. If there's a gap between any of the sides of the angle iron and your work piece, then the piece is still crooked. The angle iron has to sit perfectly flat against the piece in order for it to be perfectly square. This trick also works with rounded corners, given your angle iron is long enough.
Felder offers a superior safety system. It will engage the system before your finger touches and it won't ruin your blade. It works off of electro magnets. At this time it's only offered in the Format 4 commercial grade. In the US it's around $30,000.00 USD.
They are great. If I did not have a powermatic I would get one from grizzly manufacturing like my friend did a few years back
This guy... is amazing.
Whenever I see a smaller sliding table saw it always makes me wonder if I should get one. Outside of some of the cons you mentioned though the main ones for me (and I would assume any hobbyist woodworker) are price and footprint. Especially for US buyers who can rarely find the smaller versions second hand, the saws are extremely expensive compared to even Sawstops. Second while the non-moving footprint may be similar in order to take advantage of the sliding functions you need essentially twice the floor space if not more.
Unfortunately it simply makes more sense to get a standard table saw and for anything bigger just use a track saw.
Loved the explanations though :)
Grizzly makes a smaller panel saw and the price isn't much more than a SawStop !
I love my panel saw, I have a newer model of the K700 with a 9' slider , not sure if it's the best but very good .
Thank you from Downunder - Well done
There is a little company in Italy, Rimini that also makes a few sliding table saws: SCM. Change subject, if you are eating lunch and do that much movement with your hands there may be lots of food all over the table and floor. I have the Felder shaper and really like the performance and I understand your enthusiasm.
"You have to make adjustments all the time"
- Sits on the adjustable part -
My heart stops haha
Love your videos! =D
Yep, it’s a bit of an exaggeration. I’ve got a similar machine, a Minimax CU300 combination with a 2.5m sliding table which I purchased used as a ten year old machine and had shipped from over 1000km away. Despite the journey strapped to a pallet, it arrived and everything was dead on square and accurate, after several years use it is still just as accurate. I’ve not had to adjust the slider or calibrate the fence at all. Like the Felder it’s an industrial grade machine built to stay accurate under constant commercial use.
A couple things you missed. One big plus to sliding table saw is the scoring blade. It is a small blade infront of the cutting blade. It completely eliminates the tear out you always get on plywood. Now two negatives. Depending on the brand of saw you have it can be very difficult to get a zero clearance insert. I have a Robland combanation machine. And make my own. It is not fun. Next negative is again depending on the machine. On some you may not be able to put a stack dado on it. They have looked down on stacked dado's in the uk for years. But they are starting to come around.
Vincent Again, Felder, your fav now make a slider saw with Saw Stop tech for an area around the blade.
Well, Felder has something to offer it is called PCS and it won't require to buy expensive cartridges when incident happens, instead it lowers the blade with powerful electromagnets, and allows to resume work in seconds.
That is a very nice saw. In my opinion the best table saw currently available is the martin t75 prex. It can do bevel cuts both directions and has vacuum work holding options.
And only $35k
Martin have made the best table and panel saws in the world for over 50 years
Very nice saw, but nothing beats a panel saw for breaking down large sheets
I subscribed just because you are from Europe 🇪🇺 and hope you use metric measurement.
Offcource I do! Anything else would be crazy! 😅 thanks for the sub :)
The only times I’ve wanted a sliding table is when I have to cut a dado on a really long awkward piece that’s too big for a sled.
It’s very difficult to keep large workpieces square against the fence AND provide downward force to keep dado depth consistent simultaneously.
You DON'T cut small pieces with the stop on the sliding table but with "Fritz und Franz" as they are called here in Germany.
You have a track in the face of the sliding mechanism, easy to add clamps for short cuts.
Very interesting video! 👍🏻 Glad you mentioned the danger of kickbacks at the parallel fence of regular tablesaws. I think it’s so important to be able to pull back the fence. I definitly prefere working on sliding tablesaws like you!
Another checking for square technique you can use is the 3-4-5 technique. Good for really large pieces that is difficult to do diagonal measurements. Basically on each corner measure 3 units one side and 4 units the other side (creating 2 sides of a right triangle) and measure the distance between the two measurements (the hypotenuse) and it should be 5 units. Opposing right triangles make the piece square. Practical use of Pythagorean theorem. :)
I believe that Felder now makes a saw that has a similar feature to a SawStop but doesn't require replacing the expensive cartridge and blade if the devise is triggered. Unfortunately Felder saws are very expensive here in Canada.
Alexandre, I am surprised that you could discuss a slider without reference to a "Fritz and Franz" fixture. This will lift the range and performance of a slider to another level. Go and search for it.
In Germany it's called "Formatkreissäge" ^^
Lol, für mich war bisher alles einfach Kreissäge
@@lasserb einst war für mich alles "Säge" ^^
Being from the U.S. sliding table saw are available, have been for a good number of years now. To be fair, it's best to have both, traditional TS and a sliding TS. Never been a fan of sawstop since they were trying to force other manufacturers go to their style of TS. Cheers :)
15:00 Felder does have what they call PCS on their high-end Format4 550 e-motion PCS. It works in the same way as a SawStop but it doesn't need a new cartridge. It can be reset by pressing a button. Love your videos
Festool also came out with a saw that has the same technology. Extremely expensive ofc. Bosch made a system called reaxx but they for sued from SawStop for infringing patents.
Aksels Grinvalds I just saw that when I was getting the links for the video description, pretty cool stuff! Thanks for watching 😊
Aksels Grinvalds oh I didn't know that about festool and bosch, I'll definitely check it out!
@@akselsgrinvalds1854 Well, the parent company of Festool bought Sawstop, which is why it uses the same technology
@@strale Forgot that, thank you👌
We have saws like that in USA but usually in pro cabinet shops and there twice that size or bigger.
Thanks for this. It was exactly what I was looking for.
We have a saw stop industrial at my shop and it has a sliding piece that you can buy that is way smaller than the one you showed but it’s not as compact as yours.
I want one of these so bad it hurts. They are killer expensive in the US!
I have to say I was skeptical during the first seconds. But I really enjoyed your video. I'm stuck in a efffing city and can't go back home where I would buy one of these things, even if I am just a beginner. I also reallyl loved explanation about tricks and safety, they never get old
Cheers from Italy
good to finaly see a type of table saw i'm used to on a youtube video.... funny thing is, we had the same model .. in the design school i did my masters :-)
Great explanation of sliding table. Thank you.
awesome video, good energy
First time seeing a slider saw. Good intro to it. ...what if I also had a sliding garage... 🤔
Funny, that saw was sold by a Norwegian company (Falkenberg, selling a lot of high end pro wood cutting equipment, saws, cnc’s etc) remember the model.
This style of table saw is very common on Brazil too, we just have alot of cheaper systems in the moving tables, work the same, but not as precise.
Delta had a line of good woodworking equipment labeled by Invicta. They were made in Brazil.
Thank you so much for the input on the table saw that looks like an awesome saw. I have the same type of sliding feature on my saw stop and have been happy with it so far. but the one you're showing looks even better. thank you again and by the way the shop looks neat and organized and that's the way I keep mine and love it so I appreciate someone else who does the same and thank you thank you from Doug
Super cool video thank you
This was really cool just to see a different style of saw and your reasons for using it. I don't necessarily need a tablesaw but always enjoy hearing the rationale for why a tool is a great tool for the job, especially from someone who does the job well.
Keep up the great videos, they are varied in content and style but all so interesting and entertaining.
I bet if buy one , you will be stimulated & excited to do some woodworking!
One you use a sliding table saw, you will not want to go back. It makes a world of difference when the table carry's and guides the work. But they are not small shop friendly. They require much more room.
I have a brand new FELDER on order and I think they are hard to beat!
Thanks, and a great video! Sawstop now makes a sliding tablesaw, but considering the price, I’ve decided to buy a Festool cordless tracksaw and their folding sawing table. Takes up less room, costs 1/3 the price (or 1/2 with dust collection), and works in the Home Depot parking lot to cut pieces that fit in my truckbed. And by keeping my hands above the saw, I still get to keep all my fingers.
Also, it appears that Festool has licensed Sawstop technology, but I doubt they will sell them in the US… though if anyone can figure out how to make a tracksaw that instantly shuts off before it cuts your finger off, it’s probably Festool.
SawStop does not make a sliding table saw. They have sliding table extensions that attach to a traditional cabinet saw. Doesn't work quite the same since the slider isn't right up against the blade.
Festool bought the sawstop company
Great vid dude, thanks
In australia we would call that type of Saw a panel saw, because theats what its for, support large ply/MDF panels
A panel saw here is basically a large circular saw on 2 guiding rails mounted to the wall.
Hi .. just a correction. All the major sliding table saw brands have flesh sensing technology. Felder has it on their higher spec models. For cutting small pieces, you can use a Fritz and Frans jig for a sliding table saw. It is possible to get a saw specified with a dado arbor that allows you to use dado tooling. Not the same as the dado stacks in the USA, but similar.
Most of the German manufacturers have other security measures for your fingers, so they don't need saw stop. Those also don't destroy the saw blade. Also there are some saws, which can angle the blade to both sides.
Сlamps can be installed there in T-slot and you can cut small pieces of material. to get the desired size, I put the mod an emphasis on 10-20cm.
and so I can cut a strip of 10 mm from material 2-3 cm wide, or as much as you like, because you can set the exact size on the ruler.
this saw has no drawback except that if you follow the rules it is difficult to cut off fingers
This was a great video and I learnt so many safety tips. You saved my fingers.
Thank you so much.👍
Take no notice of this video for safety. He does not even have the guard fitted. Unsafe and illegal in many countries. He clearly has no idea
I guess your saw doesn't have a scoring blade since you didn't mention it. Working with melamine it's a must, even cross cutting plywood it's so nice to have, no more zero clearance inserts or taping stuff or putting something under, just cut it and it's perfect. And if you ever do need a zero clearance without the scoring blade, what I did was just get a 3-4mm MDF and put it one the sliding table with the fence in front and then just cut a slot in it not going all the way down the piece which is why you need the fence in front and then just put the workpiece on top and keep cutting the small pieces without them getting sucked down the gap and to make sure the MDF didn't move I would use a clamp that goes in the groove of the sliding table.
Hey, Alexandre. I know the video is over 1 year old now. There is a Felder saw kappa 550 that has their PCS system, built-in , but it is probably really expensive and for professional use. And another European brand, Festool (also owns SawStop) has a table saw that has the safety feature built-in.
Great video. Informative as well as interesting. Kudos.
This blew my mind....
I make a lot of cuts where the waste is on the left side. I like the flat top for that.
I am really jealous of the sliding function though.
cross cutting is best on a chop saw...that saw is epic for panels
If you search on youtube for table saw kickback you can find demonstrations as well as accidents that actually happened.
What is the link for the saw
A very good critique on the panel saw. If your budget allows its the only way to go. Great video! 👴🏻🇦🇺
Yes, your budget and your floorspace. In my early years I worked in a shop with two SCMi panel saws, side by side. It was a barn turned into a shop.
Man
We need more 3d printing projects 🤩
ive got a digital read out on my table saw fence, all servo controlled, now its your turn haha
Loved this video. It sang the praises but acknowledged the limits. Well done! I do wish Saw Stop had this as an available alternative for the top.
It has a similar attachment. Much like an Excalibur fence.
Roald wanted us to watch this because apparently we still use the same table saw at AHO.
Daniel Holmberg haha jeah you sure do :)
Great video.
Hi!
Do you know how to cut a board(2,5-3m) to length on a short sliding table (1600mm) ? Not by pushing the board by hand along the fence, but exactly on the carriage.