This character has changed quite a lot since the initial reveal. At first I wasn't too excited for this one, but the new changes seem to have really addressed the problems and are pretty cool to boot. What do you all think? Become a Patron for early access to videos - www.patreon.com/mandatoryquest Grab some sweet merch - www.mandatoryquest.com
For the final perk with the curse, imagine though the situation when you have a dark element that is waning and about to expire completely. That perk gives you an additional way to utilize all the dark that the character creates.
I feel like Poliferation of the Abyss could be a really great card. It's just a shadow generator on every turn if you can keep bringing dark up. And it can occasionally help tank if a big attack is drawn.
And lashing tendrils seems like it could do a lot of damage if enemies were clustered. 5 damage to each of them if you can get the shadows placed well.
Yeah the shadow generation might be what makes it a real MVP, and the damage mitigation part could be great at 2P when you have less enemies to deal with, and maybe solid enough with larger player counts.
@MandatoryQuest Btw that lvl 9 black lance says E N T E R. SO by base movement with no boots that actually can get to 13! so you can definitely use a bottom move plus that lvl 5 bottom burn to for sure get it into position, then just run up and demolish an enemy. I also agree that the other lvl 9 card kinda is not good because the bottom burn is deceptively mediocre. You usually aren't too close, and the fact that it contends with your lvl 5 burn which was amazing and allows you to remove so many other cards without thinking sucks.
I know this is a really late comment for this video. But I recently started to look back at some of the frosthaven video's. I noticed how you complained about some of the slow initiative cards like the night takes shape. For me going late can be a selling point of the card. As a squishy character you want to go late so the enemies won't attack you this turn, and then go quick the next turn to move to safety. The late initiave on the night takes shape is perfect, go late, teleport next to an enemy and finish him off(generate a new shadow with call to the abyss) and then do some top attack(which might also kill an enemy and generate another shadow with call to the abyss)
I could be wrong but I think the Level 7 card Proliferation of the Abyss is actually underrated. It’s a non-loss card that just makes a shadow every turn for a dark element, at least that’s how I assume it works, with a potential bonus of negating damage for yourself or allies then if you are about to rest you can drop it to get it back in your hand on a future turn to keep an even number of cards.
True it could be useful just for that, but I found the rest of the top ability a bit underwhelming outside of maybe a 2P group where there are less enemies. It’s going to be interesting though because if we aren’t going to get as easy access to our old tools like stun and disarm as easy in FH perhaps this will be an acceptable new form of control.
For Lingering Rot bottom...I wonder if there are items that might let you add +1 range to an action, so if the card just said adjacent you couldn't extend it, but since it has a range it can now be extended by effects that add to range. Also might classify it as a ranged effect for some other purpose.
I think the shadow at lvl 4 is great The Summon in lvl 5 is actually worth it too. And the proliferate of the abyss can just be 'place a shadow' because its a non-loss.
Yeah you get some great easy shadow generation at higher levels for sure. the real test though is will the early generation be good enough. I think with the changes and good play it will be, but we shall see. This might be one of those starting characters that actually you just come back to at a higher prosperity level. Still for me this character is now up there as one of my potential favourites, the theme and mechanics are just great.
Out of all the characters in Frosthaven (that we've seen so far), Deathwalker and Necromancer are the most intriguing and I'd like to play them both, I really like the theme, especially those shadows, where you can emerge from them, attack something, then snap back to your body wherever you've left it. :) Can't wait to play with the Deathwalker. Necromancer is also very sexy, I tend to choose necromancers if they are available, I just love giving orders to the dead. As a side note, I like the change in card graphics, my one tiny remark on this is that they're not giving away that fantasy dungeon-y vibe, they're more SciFi now, with hard rectangles, exclamation marks and hexes for range... I hope they'll soften everything a bit, add some curves and make it more fit for a fantasy realm again, but I definitely like the fact they are changing the design.
I think at this point the card design has been finalised. I agree that the style is a bit too clean and sharp for me for a fantasy game, but if it’s all in the name of making the game easier to read and to add more complicated abilities then I’m for it. Deathwalker might be the most thematic character from the starters now, really like what they’ve done and I’m now kinda tempted to play it as my first.
@@MandatoryQuest Oh, I agree on the card design thing, I mean I love it, either way, only slightly sad it has lost that fantasy feel to it, but that's maybe just me :D I'm def going to play with the Deathwalker first, Necromancer will wait for second pass ;)
Necromancer sucks balls. It is constantly either blocking everyone or they're too slow to follow. Also they die immediately and I know that's kind of a free disarm but it's just boring doing with a few meatshields.
It seems like there is 2 distinct playstyle goals but I imagine you'll want a little of both. The first focuses on moving your shadows around and playing cards that benefit from having a lot of shadows. The second focuses on playing cards that consume nearby shadows while creating more with enemy deaths with fewer overall shadows available, but a consistent generation and use of them. PS: Deepening Despair bottom needs clarification. It seems to indicate that you and allies can use the shadows essentially as teleport pads, which is cool. I'm thinking that it may just be referring to move ability effects like landing on a shadow with Mind Thief's Silent Scream let's you push an enemy standing on any other shadow as if they were next to the Mind Thief. Less cool, but also a cool concept still. Maybe it's both???
I like the thematic feel of the character but at first glance i feel like there is a TON of consume shadows and very little create shadows. One of your creates requires you to go early too in order to mark them before an ally or yourself kills them too. I feel like this character is going to have a few scenarios where they just do a bunch of nothing and some where they are going to look like an absolute monster. This is however the type of character i like to play with alternate resources to manage and position so i'm looking forward to it.
You have quite a few early initiatives so hopefully with most party comps you will have that opportunity to mark an enemy early. I do agree though that it feels like a very finely balanced character, and if things don’t go your way you could end up feeling a bit useless. As this character has been tweaked and tested quite a lot over the past year I’m going to trust they have got that balance hopefully right.
So…when I saw fluid night’s bottom ability, the first thing I thought about was using it and then perhaps having this character trigger a trap? Walk onto it to clear the way, but suffer no damage and teleport to a shadow. Does that sound like it would work?
Yes that would work as long as the trap does damage. The card doesn’t stipulate it has to be damage from an attack, so it could be from a trap, wound, or even self inflicted with a short rest redraw.
Gotta disagree with a few things here. You keep saying a high initiative is bad, but I've not found that to be the case. Cards with initiative > 75 and < 25 are both great in their own way, to make sure you're going either first or last. There are times when I want to be the one going first and times when I want to be the one going last, so those cards with more extreme initiative values are most helpful in those situations. The cards that are most frustrating to me are the ones with middling initiative values because you really have no idea whether you'll be going before a certain enemy or not, and that can screw up your whole turn. Additionally, when looking at a loss card, I find it helps to consider both halves of the card together to determine the overall value of the card. If one half is a moderately powerful burn effect that is situationally really good but the other half is a really great all around performer even with no special abilities, that's a great card. I'm never going to be upset about continuously using the "all around performer" half and saving the loss half for a time where it's really impactful and can maximize a turn. As an example of both of these points, Eclipse has been one of the best cards for me as I've played Deathwalker through a few scenarios. Initiative 86 means I know almost certainly I'm going last if I want to, especially with Boots of Speed as recommended as a starting item. I can pair this card with a low initiative card if needed, but going last is often helpful to sneak in for a last strike or better positioning for next turn. I'm always good with a reusable move 4, and then if I find myself in a tough spot where I need a bunch of shadows for mobility or extra power mid- to late-game, the top loss is perfect for getting a bunch out there with the ability to place them ahead and push forward or off to the sides or back if I need extra room.
Love the reviews! Can't wait for Frosthaven to start shipping! Also really starting to love this character since the adjustments... I first wanted to play Blinkblade. Now I can't decide between the 2. These shadows look so cool, but I wonder if it won't be too difficult to keep generating them consistently. That will really make or break the character for me. A challenge is good, but don't want to feel useless half the time either. Also, any idea how retaliate will work when doing a melee attack through your shadows? Since you're technically not in range... Will retaliate also "move through the shadows?" And what with attacks where you remove the shadow after your attack? In theory it can't get to you through the shadow anymore... :) It will probably just retaliate like normal, but it would be a cool thematic effect if it doesn't apply for attacks where you consume the shadow! Anyways, love what you're doing. Keep it up!
Great question with the retaliate. I would assume no because you aren't adjacent to the enemy at the end of the attack, similar to push if you were to push them out of retaliate range during your attack. Glad you're enjoying the content 😉
I've played it a bit on different player counts and my impression in, that you need to plan a bit, but if you manage it well, you can do some serious damage.
As always, thanks for the insight and content. Way back when, I wasn’t interested in playing this character. However after seeing this update I am now interested in playing it. One question I have is that for some of the abilities it requires the shadow to be adjacent to the enemy. However if the enemy is on a shadow would it trigger the adjacency effect ? I do t think so but not sure.
Not sure how I feel about this class. With so many uses for the shadow tokens, it really seems like at level 1 with only a single non loss shadow generator (Call to the Abyss) needs you to either rest early or use one of the loss cards. If you don't place the Call to the Abyss hex in a proper position most of your actions before the first rest will be pretty bad. If you short rest and lose Call to the Abyss, you will be quite bad for the rest of the scenario. Or am I missing something?
I think you'll be forced to have to use Eclipse to place 3 early and then manage those 3 from then on using Call to the Abyss to replace the ones you use. Not ideal by any means, but as you level up you'll eventually get a bit more of an engine going making and consuming. In that respect this character has a nice progression similar to say Triangles who also has a rough early level start but has a nice arc.
It's interesting to see different takes on this character. I feel like the top of Call to the Abyss is the signature ability to put out on turn one, and I'd base my build on that. I'd try to get every multiple target attack, go on an initiative after some allies have dished out damage, try to finish off as many things as I can, and start on something that my allies can finish off. This creates the most shadows on and off turn. The reason why Call of Doom looks so wimpy is probably because you can still finish something off with a +1 attack to create a shadow, and put a mark on something else that your allies will take care of for another shadow. Abilities that consume 1 shadow become a net zero because you're either going to kill it, or an ally will. Either way, the shadow you ate is coming back. Summons can contribute significantly as well. Any kind of auto damage is also great since you will know if it will be enough to kill an enemy your summon marked and attacked. You generally want to go after your allies to see what's softened up (conveniently your summon always goes before you), but want to try and go before at least some enemies so initiatives around 25-35 are perfect. And you don't pass on any ability that has attack or deals damage on a bottom action. Scenarios that have fewer and tougher enemies may be more challenging for this character, but that's part of the fun, and you can adapt with some burn cards. I wouldn't try this build in a 2 player though, it's probably better for 3-4 player games.
The fact that you can place the token before each attack seems like it's gonna be OP. Focusing only on aoe you might be going too far on the shadow generation, as you can only have a limited number at a time and going over the max doesn't provide much value apart from changing the position of one. You could max out on shadows in a single turn easily. You'll lose value at a certain point if you went all-in on aoe
Very expensive though and enhancing a burn is usually not the best value, but with all the changes we have seen who knows. The enhancement system has always been a bit wonky, and now with resources instead of gold appearing in scenarios its going to be interesting the rate at which we can get gold. I trust in the team to figure that out though hopefully.
Yep. I think burning Eclipse for 3 tokens is going to pretty much be the turn 1 play , then you use Abyss to just replace those that you use. Shadows aren't going to come easy early levels, but I think that's part of the intended progression of the character.
@@MandatoryQuest but even at higher levels there was I think only one other way non burn to make them. I think it's going to be a very hard playstyle to sustain.
I find it kinda weird that both, Boneshaper and Deathwalker use dark element. As they are both starting class I would expect different focus for each of them. Could get frustrating when players choose to play both of them...
having 2 characters using the same elements can be both a good thing and a bad thing. The good part is that they can also generate the element. Having an ally go early in the same turn and generate the element you need can be really good. Yes it can be anoying if your ally uses the element you want to use. But a bit of communication and I would expect sharing the same element is more of a boon then a disadvantage.
Hi! "Anger of the dead" ... if the Deathwalker teams with the Quatermaster who has just activated his card lvl 6, does it means DW attacks 2 times at up to 7 and gains 10 XP... non loss, repeatable. Holy crap !
DW looked like a cool class to begin. Glad they made an update to help its functionality. Classes dont always have to be op, but they can't be useless or weak to play.
Yeah it was thematically cool but lacked a real “wow” moment that clicked for me. Not every class is going to appeal to everyone but this classes mechanics just seemed a bit too fiddly before, but now it looks a lot more coherent. It’s probably managed to move above the boneshaper now for me and id probably consider playing it now.
It feels weird to me to hear someone say "it's a burn but we only have 11 cards." In my group it seems like I always end up playing classes with lower card counts, and I think I've only personally played any character with 11 or more cards once. A lot of those characters also were pretty dependent on burn cards, although 2 of the lowest card counts characters I played did have some ways to get cards back (Spellweaver and Circles). 11 cards seems to me like it is great for burning a few cards.
I think 11 is in good shape to burn an early passive style ability. You just need to be careful if you have more than 1 of these cards that encourage an early burn.
Very interesting guide. I dont know if you say it in the video, but I hear for example in Lingering Rot about hitting the same unit where is placed the token. When it sais Perform de attack as if you were ocuppying a hex with a [SHADOW TOKEN]... Can you attack the enemy who is on top of that position? I thought melee range was the hexes around you, and not your own hex. This is a bit confusing for me, It should be specified in the rules of the class. PD: In my opinion DW is the better class for fun in FH :)
As far as level 2: Yes restless spirits has a bigger attack (if you can stand in a shadow). But it's a melee attack. You only have 6 HP.. The bottom of restless spirits is excellent, however.
With the teleporting this character has I think you'll have ample opportunity to spring up on a shadow token and hit an enemy at some points, but yes the bottom is very good, reliable, and allows you to do extra damage outside of a top action so will be probably used more.
Question: if enemy stands on shadow hex, can "Wave of Anguish" and other similar cards target it? Or the cards can only target range one of shadow hex?
Yes that’s a bit of an odd one because you will be attacking basically the hex you are on which has never come up before. I would say that because on top is considered adjacent as per the character rules that it would still target it. I don’t think we can assume that melee is always range 0-1 in general though, but this is probably so corner case it doesn’t really matter.
The "Perform the attack as if you were occupying the hex with a shadow", do you NEED the shadow to do this attack? That could be dificult to target the thinks that you want to attack xD
Yeah i like it much more now, but that shadow generation really is a make or break. I like the Blinkblade a bit more because you can guarantee making your resource (time tokens) much easier than you can these shadows, but it certainly has some explosive turn potential.
First off, great video! This character looks fun BUT it looks a bit difficult to generate shadows. Without enough shadows, this character looks very NOT FUN.
Thanks glad you liked it! Totally agree that this character lives off shadows. Like some Gloomhaven characters it is very dependent on its resources, but the good news is nobody can screw with them like elements can be for example. We will have to see if its reliable enough, but I know the FH team have tweaked and play tested this class a lot so I trust they have figured it out.
The subtle changes they have made to the generation of shadows will help a lot, but yes this character could be quite hard to play and might sometimes have a tough time if you don't get shadows going. When it does have the shadows though it looks like a lot of fun!
HIGHER LEVEL SPOILERS Frozen in Fear bottom combined with Eclipse top is an instant 5 shadows in basically whatever position you want them in a room. Yes it's two burns, but one turn max shadows for something like a boss? Yes please!
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
She's a looney tunes character and all the shadows are cartoon holes.
This character has changed quite a lot since the initial reveal. At first I wasn't too excited for this one, but the new changes seem to have really addressed the problems and are pretty cool to boot. What do you all think?
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I think its a fascinating character even if the shadows are a little high maintenence lol
For the final perk with the curse, imagine though the situation when you have a dark element that is waning and about to expire completely. That perk gives you an additional way to utilize all the dark that the character creates.
I feel like Poliferation of the Abyss could be a really great card. It's just a shadow generator on every turn if you can keep bringing dark up. And it can occasionally help tank if a big attack is drawn.
And lashing tendrils seems like it could do a lot of damage if enemies were clustered. 5 damage to each of them if you can get the shadows placed well.
Yeah the shadow generation might be what makes it a real MVP, and the damage mitigation part could be great at 2P when you have less enemies to deal with, and maybe solid enough with larger player counts.
Deathwalker reminds me of Zed in League of Legends, using shadows to attack with.
@MandatoryQuest Btw that lvl 9 black lance says E N T E R. SO by base movement with no boots that actually can get to 13! so you can definitely use a bottom move plus that lvl 5 bottom burn to for sure get it into position, then just run up and demolish an enemy. I also agree that the other lvl 9 card kinda is not good because the bottom burn is deceptively mediocre. You usually aren't too close, and the fact that it contends with your lvl 5 burn which was amazing and allows you to remove so many other cards without thinking sucks.
Move shadow 5 is essentialy move jump 5 . You can do an objective while still drowning enemy out of the room
I know this is a really late comment for this video. But I recently started to look back at some of the frosthaven video's.
I noticed how you complained about some of the slow initiative cards like the night takes shape. For me going late can be a selling point of the card. As a squishy character you want to go late so the enemies won't attack you this turn, and then go quick the next turn to move to safety.
The late initiave on the night takes shape is perfect, go late, teleport next to an enemy and finish him off(generate a new shadow with call to the abyss) and then do some top attack(which might also kill an enemy and generate another shadow with call to the abyss)
I could be wrong but I think the Level 7 card Proliferation of the Abyss is actually underrated. It’s a non-loss card that just makes a shadow every turn for a dark element, at least that’s how I assume it works, with a potential bonus of negating damage for yourself or allies then if you are about to rest you can drop it to get it back in your hand on a future turn to keep an even number of cards.
True it could be useful just for that, but I found the rest of the top ability a bit underwhelming outside of maybe a 2P group where there are less enemies. It’s going to be interesting though because if we aren’t going to get as easy access to our old tools like stun and disarm as easy in FH perhaps this will be an acceptable new form of control.
For Lingering Rot bottom...I wonder if there are items that might let you add +1 range to an action, so if the card just said adjacent you couldn't extend it, but since it has a range it can now be extended by effects that add to range. Also might classify it as a ranged effect for some other purpose.
2 years later I can tell u that there is !! 😂
I think the shadow at lvl 4 is great
The Summon in lvl 5 is actually worth it too.
And the proliferate of the abyss can just be 'place a shadow' because its a non-loss.
Yeah you get some great easy shadow generation at higher levels for sure. the real test though is will the early generation be good enough. I think with the changes and good play it will be, but we shall see. This might be one of those starting characters that actually you just come back to at a higher prosperity level. Still for me this character is now up there as one of my potential favourites, the theme and mechanics are just great.
Out of all the characters in Frosthaven (that we've seen so far), Deathwalker and Necromancer are the most intriguing and I'd like to play them both, I really like the theme, especially those shadows, where you can emerge from them, attack something, then snap back to your body wherever you've left it. :) Can't wait to play with the Deathwalker. Necromancer is also very sexy, I tend to choose necromancers if they are available, I just love giving orders to the dead.
As a side note, I like the change in card graphics, my one tiny remark on this is that they're not giving away that fantasy dungeon-y vibe, they're more SciFi now, with hard rectangles, exclamation marks and hexes for range... I hope they'll soften everything a bit, add some curves and make it more fit for a fantasy realm again, but I definitely like the fact they are changing the design.
I think at this point the card design has been finalised. I agree that the style is a bit too clean and sharp for me for a fantasy game, but if it’s all in the name of making the game easier to read and to add more complicated abilities then I’m for it. Deathwalker might be the most thematic character from the starters now, really like what they’ve done and I’m now kinda tempted to play it as my first.
@@MandatoryQuest Oh, I agree on the card design thing, I mean I love it, either way, only slightly sad it has lost that fantasy feel to it, but that's maybe just me :D I'm def going to play with the Deathwalker first, Necromancer will wait for second pass ;)
Necromancer sucks balls. It is constantly either blocking everyone or they're too slow to follow. Also they die immediately and I know that's kind of a free disarm but it's just boring doing with a few meatshields.
It seems like there is 2 distinct playstyle goals but I imagine you'll want a little of both. The first focuses on moving your shadows around and playing cards that benefit from having a lot of shadows. The second focuses on playing cards that consume nearby shadows while creating more with enemy deaths with fewer overall shadows available, but a consistent generation and use of them.
PS: Deepening Despair bottom needs clarification. It seems to indicate that you and allies can use the shadows essentially as teleport pads, which is cool. I'm thinking that it may just be referring to move ability effects like landing on a shadow with Mind Thief's Silent Scream let's you push an enemy standing on any other shadow as if they were next to the Mind Thief. Less cool, but also a cool concept still. Maybe it's both???
I like the thematic feel of the character but at first glance i feel like there is a TON of consume shadows and very little create shadows. One of your creates requires you to go early too in order to mark them before an ally or yourself kills them too. I feel like this character is going to have a few scenarios where they just do a bunch of nothing and some where they are going to look like an absolute monster. This is however the type of character i like to play with alternate resources to manage and position so i'm looking forward to it.
You have quite a few early initiatives so hopefully with most party comps you will have that opportunity to mark an enemy early. I do agree though that it feels like a very finely balanced character, and if things don’t go your way you could end up feeling a bit useless. As this character has been tweaked and tested quite a lot over the past year I’m going to trust they have got that balance hopefully right.
Is it me or this class is without a "double perk" on its character sheet ? All other 5 starting classes add one double perk, so why not this one ?
Would you consider doing updated videos on all starting classes and the major changes? Appreciate the content!
Yes I will be doing a new video for each, hopefully have another one out within the next few days 😉
@@MandatoryQuest Can't wait! The new Deathwalker seems to be much more fun/versatile while other characters appear to be nerfed...
@@abbyl9839 Yeah It does feel that way, I was all excited to play the Geminate but actually the more I look at it the less I like it
So…when I saw fluid night’s bottom ability, the first thing I thought about was using it and then perhaps having this character trigger a trap? Walk onto it to clear the way, but suffer no damage and teleport to a shadow. Does that sound like it would work?
Yes that would work as long as the trap does damage. The card doesn’t stipulate it has to be damage from an attack, so it could be from a trap, wound, or even self inflicted with a short rest redraw.
Gotta disagree with a few things here. You keep saying a high initiative is bad, but I've not found that to be the case. Cards with initiative > 75 and < 25 are both great in their own way, to make sure you're going either first or last. There are times when I want to be the one going first and times when I want to be the one going last, so those cards with more extreme initiative values are most helpful in those situations. The cards that are most frustrating to me are the ones with middling initiative values because you really have no idea whether you'll be going before a certain enemy or not, and that can screw up your whole turn.
Additionally, when looking at a loss card, I find it helps to consider both halves of the card together to determine the overall value of the card. If one half is a moderately powerful burn effect that is situationally really good but the other half is a really great all around performer even with no special abilities, that's a great card. I'm never going to be upset about continuously using the "all around performer" half and saving the loss half for a time where it's really impactful and can maximize a turn.
As an example of both of these points, Eclipse has been one of the best cards for me as I've played Deathwalker through a few scenarios. Initiative 86 means I know almost certainly I'm going last if I want to, especially with Boots of Speed as recommended as a starting item. I can pair this card with a low initiative card if needed, but going last is often helpful to sneak in for a last strike or better positioning for next turn. I'm always good with a reusable move 4, and then if I find myself in a tough spot where I need a bunch of shadows for mobility or extra power mid- to late-game, the top loss is perfect for getting a bunch out there with the ability to place them ahead and push forward or off to the sides or back if I need extra room.
Love the reviews! Can't wait for Frosthaven to start shipping!
Also really starting to love this character since the adjustments... I first wanted to play Blinkblade. Now I can't decide between the 2. These shadows look so cool, but I wonder if it won't be too difficult to keep generating them consistently. That will really make or break the character for me. A challenge is good, but don't want to feel useless half the time either.
Also, any idea how retaliate will work when doing a melee attack through your shadows? Since you're technically not in range... Will retaliate also "move through the shadows?" And what with attacks where you remove the shadow after your attack? In theory it can't get to you through the shadow anymore... :)
It will probably just retaliate like normal, but it would be a cool thematic effect if it doesn't apply for attacks where you consume the shadow!
Anyways, love what you're doing. Keep it up!
Great question with the retaliate. I would assume no because you aren't adjacent to the enemy at the end of the attack, similar to push if you were to push them out of retaliate range during your attack. Glad you're enjoying the content 😉
I've played it a bit on different player counts and my impression in, that you need to plan a bit, but if you manage it well, you can do some serious damage.
As always, thanks for the insight and content. Way back when, I wasn’t interested in playing this character. However after seeing this update I am now interested in playing it. One question I have is that for some of the abilities it requires the shadow to be adjacent to the enemy. However if the enemy is on a shadow would it trigger the adjacency effect ? I do t think so but not sure.
Yes, if it's on the shadow, it's adjacent. He mentions that early in the video.
Yep its written on the player board
Not sure how I feel about this class. With so many uses for the shadow tokens, it really seems like at level 1 with only a single non loss shadow generator (Call to the Abyss) needs you to either rest early or use one of the loss cards. If you don't place the Call to the Abyss hex in a proper position most of your actions before the first rest will be pretty bad. If you short rest and lose Call to the Abyss, you will be quite bad for the rest of the scenario. Or am I missing something?
I think you'll be forced to have to use Eclipse to place 3 early and then manage those 3 from then on using Call to the Abyss to replace the ones you use. Not ideal by any means, but as you level up you'll eventually get a bit more of an engine going making and consuming. In that respect this character has a nice progression similar to say Triangles who also has a rough early level start but has a nice arc.
It's interesting to see different takes on this character. I feel like the top of Call to the Abyss is the signature ability to put out on turn one, and I'd base my build on that. I'd try to get every multiple target attack, go on an initiative after some allies have dished out damage, try to finish off as many things as I can, and start on something that my allies can finish off. This creates the most shadows on and off turn. The reason why Call of Doom looks so wimpy is probably because you can still finish something off with a +1 attack to create a shadow, and put a mark on something else that your allies will take care of for another shadow. Abilities that consume 1 shadow become a net zero because you're either going to kill it, or an ally will. Either way, the shadow you ate is coming back. Summons can contribute significantly as well. Any kind of auto damage is also great since you will know if it will be enough to kill an enemy your summon marked and attacked. You generally want to go after your allies to see what's softened up (conveniently your summon always goes before you), but want to try and go before at least some enemies so initiatives around 25-35 are perfect. And you don't pass on any ability that has attack or deals damage on a bottom action.
Scenarios that have fewer and tougher enemies may be more challenging for this character, but that's part of the fun, and you can adapt with some burn cards. I wouldn't try this build in a 2 player though, it's probably better for 3-4 player games.
The fact that you can place the token before each attack seems like it's gonna be OP. Focusing only on aoe you might be going too far on the shadow generation, as you can only have a limited number at a time and going over the max doesn't provide much value apart from changing the position of one. You could max out on shadows in a single turn easily. You'll lose value at a certain point if you went all-in on aoe
Move 2 to a door, enemies pill up and burn the one that hits all shadows and place a shadow for it and hopefully kill everything
Yeah this can wreak havoc in doors or narrow corridors
For lingering rot you can actually add a curse
Very expensive though and enhancing a burn is usually not the best value, but with all the changes we have seen who knows. The enhancement system has always been a bit wonky, and now with resources instead of gold appearing in scenarios its going to be interesting the rate at which we can get gold. I trust in the team to figure that out though hopefully.
Anyone know if the TTS version will be updated with the final changes?
Not sure, but Isaac has always been pretty open with GH stuff in the past so there's a good chance.
Was I right in saying in starting level one there is only 1 non burn way to make a shadow?
Yep. I think burning Eclipse for 3 tokens is going to pretty much be the turn 1 play , then you use Abyss to just replace those that you use. Shadows aren't going to come easy early levels, but I think that's part of the intended progression of the character.
@@MandatoryQuest but even at higher levels there was I think only one other way non burn to make them. I think it's going to be a very hard playstyle to sustain.
Wave of anguish, dis it get worked wrong or is from each shadow, or i can make it all from one shadow. I assume the first but wanted to see.
Each attack must be from a different shadow. Essentially you get a melee attack 3 action originating from each shadow token.
I find it kinda weird that both, Boneshaper and Deathwalker use dark element. As they are both starting class I would expect different focus for each of them. Could get frustrating when players choose to play both of them...
having 2 characters using the same elements can be both a good thing and a bad thing. The good part is that they can also generate the element. Having an ally go early in the same turn and generate the element you need can be really good. Yes it can be anoying if your ally uses the element you want to use. But a bit of communication and I would expect sharing the same element is more of a boon then a disadvantage.
Hi! "Anger of the dead" ... if the Deathwalker teams with the Quatermaster who has just activated his card lvl 6, does it means DW attacks 2 times at up to 7 and gains 10 XP... non loss, repeatable. Holy crap !
DW looked like a cool class to begin. Glad they made an update to help its functionality. Classes dont always have to be op, but they can't be useless or weak to play.
Yeah it was thematically cool but lacked a real “wow” moment that clicked for me. Not every class is going to appeal to everyone but this classes mechanics just seemed a bit too fiddly before, but now it looks a lot more coherent. It’s probably managed to move above the boneshaper now for me and id probably consider playing it now.
So the way I understand this is: The Deathwalker is basically a range offensive Diviner without scrying.
Looks very spicy
🔥
It feels weird to me to hear someone say "it's a burn but we only have 11 cards." In my group it seems like I always end up playing classes with lower card counts, and I think I've only personally played any character with 11 or more cards once. A lot of those characters also were pretty dependent on burn cards, although 2 of the lowest card counts characters I played did have some ways to get cards back (Spellweaver and Circles). 11 cards seems to me like it is great for burning a few cards.
I think 11 is in good shape to burn an early passive style ability. You just need to be careful if you have more than 1 of these cards that encourage an early burn.
Very interesting guide.
I dont know if you say it in the video, but I hear for example in Lingering Rot about hitting the same unit where is placed the token.
When it sais Perform de attack as if you were ocuppying a hex with a [SHADOW TOKEN]... Can you attack the enemy who is on top of that position?
I thought melee range was the hexes around you, and not your own hex.
This is a bit confusing for me, It should be specified in the rules of the class.
PD: In my opinion DW is the better class for fun in FH :)
I think it is specified in the rules of the class: the hex the shadow is in is considered adjacent to the shadow for the purpose of targeting
Yes character matt specifies that on top of the shadow is also adjacent :)
As far as level 2: Yes restless spirits has a bigger attack (if you can stand in a shadow). But it's a melee attack. You only have 6 HP.. The bottom of restless spirits is excellent, however.
With the teleporting this character has I think you'll have ample opportunity to spring up on a shadow token and hit an enemy at some points, but yes the bottom is very good, reliable, and allows you to do extra damage outside of a top action so will be probably used more.
Is this starter class the most fun to play from the six?
If you want pure gleeful fun then the Drifter IMO is the easiest to do that on.
Question: if enemy stands on shadow hex, can "Wave of Anguish" and other similar cards target it? Or the cards can only target range one of shadow hex?
says that anything in the hex of the shadow is considered to be adjacent so you could attack something standing on a shadow token.
@@elcry1920 So just to be sure, can I assume: melee is actually targeting range 0->1?
Yes that’s a bit of an odd one because you will be attacking basically the hex you are on which has never come up before. I would say that because on top is considered adjacent as per the character rules that it would still target it. I don’t think we can assume that melee is always range 0-1 in general though, but this is probably so corner case it doesn’t really matter.
@@MandatoryQuest Still conflicting in my mind after re-read the rule text of that card... Anyway, thanks for the explanation~
The "Perform the attack as if you were occupying the hex with a shadow", do you NEED the shadow to do this attack? That could be dificult to target the thinks that you want to attack xD
Yes you would need the shadow to be able to attack from I believe. Those shadows are crazy important!
this looks quite legit after the patch
Yeah i like it much more now, but that shadow generation really is a make or break. I like the Blinkblade a bit more because you can guarantee making your resource (time tokens) much easier than you can these shadows, but it certainly has some explosive turn potential.
First off, great video!
This character looks fun BUT it looks a bit difficult to generate shadows. Without enough shadows, this character looks very NOT FUN.
Thanks glad you liked it! Totally agree that this character lives off shadows. Like some Gloomhaven characters it is very dependent on its resources, but the good news is nobody can screw with them like elements can be for example. We will have to see if its reliable enough, but I know the FH team have tweaked and play tested this class a lot so I trust they have figured it out.
wait, lvl2 cards and above are spoilers? too late for me
Not technically spoilers, but sometimes some people like to save themselves till they reach that level.
Yeah, I know, I just saw the opportunity to say something there and leave a comment.
: )
😉
(I don’t think) This will be an easy character to play, but if he is decent even he looks fun. Certainly different than all others.
The subtle changes they have made to the generation of shadows will help a lot, but yes this character could be quite hard to play and might sometimes have a tough time if you don't get shadows going. When it does have the shadows though it looks like a lot of fun!
HIGHER LEVEL SPOILERS
Frozen in Fear bottom combined with Eclipse top is an instant 5 shadows in basically whatever position you want them in a room. Yes it's two burns, but one turn max shadows for something like a boss? Yes please!
I do enjoy a good all in play :)
Im angry wih you.
:(