I used the optical output to connect it to an external DAC. Sound quality is spectaculair and significantly enhanced again by using a iFi iPower adapter. Highly recommended when used that way! (R2R DAC, SET tube amp, full range open baffle speakers)
I have read many comments and your response. With respect if you connect to a good dac with a decent toslink cable the sound quality is easily as good as using a bluesound node. In fact mine feeds a denafrips DAC and sounds outstanding. I think you have not reviewed this product particularly thoroughly, which I am rather surprised by.
Fed up of binning CD players ! Whatever I have ever purchased has failed for various reasons . This was my solution too for my second system. Brilliant little tool.
Hello Hans. I know you are very sceptical about streaming without severe jitter control. However, we are many with the same request: can you test the wiim mini with the use or the toslink output please. Personally I have the wiim mini and inked to the optical input of my Maranz 6006 pm (not the best... I know). The result sounds very nice. I compared it to the '' ifi zen stream '', which is a much more expensive streamer (400€) which I connected to another optical input of my amplifier. After extensive lisening to multiple tracks I really could hear no difference. I tested both with ''Tidal connect'' on ''hi-fi quality'' (not master). I would love to hear your opinion after a similar test!
The ifi zen stream doesn't have an optical out in the 1st place but only a coax and USB. Secondly your Marantz is the bottle neck here, which basically means, you need next level teir DAC to reveal the difference from the Zen Stream and also next upgraded stereo AMP as well to get the best out of it.
Hi Hans, thanks for the review! I wish you had played the WiiM through a better DAC! I would like to know how that sounded to you! I use my WiiM via optical to my McIntosh c50 preamp built in DAC. This little streamer sounds fantastic when you use a better DAC. I actually hear more detail and a little deeper soundstage with the WiiM as compared to my iPad/ Audioquest cobalt combo via RCA into the McIntosh c50.
I'd be interested to know how this performed with a standalone dac and not the internal. This is an ideal product for a separates sytem instead of buying a completely separate streamer
Hi, please give it a try and let us know how you feel about the audio quality especially with the bit perfect output up to 192 kHz/24 bit support soon. Regarding the crystal we used, it's under +/- 10 ppm.
Yes please Hans. Can you test the use or the toslink output please. I have the wiim mini and inked to the optical input of my Maranz 6006 pm it sounds nice. I compared it to the '' ifi stream '', which is a much more expensive streamer (400€) which I connected to another optical input. I really could hear no difference. I tested both with Tidal connect on hi-fi quality (not master)
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I've read that the optical output is limited to 48khz, is that true? My plan was to feed Audiolab 6000a internal DAC with it. From my perspective, either I would go with something like this or with something that cost a lot more, since I'm gonna use only Tidal connect HIFI with it. What do you think?
@@miloshzhupac Hi Milos, TIDAL HiFi resolution is limited to 44.1 kHz/16-bit. WiiM Mini will upsample it to 48 kHz/16 bit when connecting with digital optical output. We'll have device firmware update around Mid. Feb to support the bit perfect output soon. With this, you can get the best possible audio quality from the device.
Hans, it would be great if you could update the test, as the Wiim now offers Ultra HD Toslink Output , and is therefore the cheapest solution on the Market.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel maybe even worth waiting a couple of weeks as they want to implement Amazon HD that is not yet running @ ultra levels , maybe you can catch up with the developers
Seems whenever i discover something new, i find that Hans has already made a review on the product ;) Bedankt Hans! The Toslink output can be interesting for those who combine it wilth a more expensive DAC. Seems like a (bit-)perfect Chromecast replacement.
AS I have said repeatedly in my videos a digital interface is as good as the implementation of it. Which means that in one case USB Audio Class 2 will be better, another time AES/EBU, I²S or SPDIF. The quality of both the sending and receiving devices interfaces determine pollution of the ground plane and phase noise and thus the jitter close to the DAC chip. Those problems are very seldom 100% solved in a DAC since it requires expensive components and even more expensive expertise at the design stage.
Did you use the internal dac on the mini? If I attached it to my McIntosh integrated amp with a toslink, it should sound as good as any other higher-end streamer, no?
No. The Wiim is a very simple device, not of the quality of the McIntosh. That also influences the digital output. It has a higher phase noise, less clean ground plane and less perfect square wave signal. That will have influence on how the digital to analog converter in the amp can do the conversion.
I just did a quick comparison between WiiM Mini and Bluesound Vault 2, and using Spotify as source. Both feeds into my external DAC and the WiiM is very close in sound to Bluesound. The main difference is the music details and some high frequency roll off on WiiM Mini but they are about 90% close given the price differences. Without the direct AB comparison, you will not miss anything
What makes this streamer interesting is its bit perfect toslink out - which measures better than any dac on the market, meaning the limiting factor will be you dac, regardless of price.
The wiim mini now does 192/24 over toslink. Can someone with a Amazon hd suscription test this on a ultra hd title with a dac (to see if it works ans how it sounds?)?
Great video, I would emphasize the optical cable can connect to a high quality dac for superb sound quality. I have this streamer and have not ever listened to the internal dac.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hello, I was previously using a BluDento BLT-HD high-definition Bluetooth connected via optical cable to my dac, and I thought it sounded really good; however, after connecting the WiiM with optical cable to the same dac, the sound difference was so obviously better to me. I was so pleased!😀
It is common knowledge among audio forums that the Wiim analog out is not audiophile quality. But that doesn't matter. Audiophiles use the toslink output, which is known to be bit perfect since q2 2022 software updates. There are several methods to test for bit perfect output. Many methods clearly demonstrate the wiim outputs 16/44.1 to 24/192 bit perfect over toslink to a DAC. So the sound quality is determined by the DAC and Everything connected to the DAC after. The second most important aspect of a hardware streamer is the software quality and user interface. The consensus among the Darkos of the world is that the Wiim meets or beats all other streamer software for usability and stability, with only BlueOs possibly better for some cases. I agree on all points
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel we'll have to agree to disagree 😉 Many objective digital bit stream test methods indicate the wiim delivers digital audio unchanged over toslink:. playing dts or dop encoded .wav files through the wiim to DACs or processors over toslink with no audible dropouts and correct bitstream detection; recording the toslink output from an audiophile grade Cd player and then playing and recording the toslink output of the wiim playing the same wav track ripped and verified from the same Cd and comparing recorded files using known audio tools on a Mac or PC; and testing the jitter using digital audio test equipment over toslink, very low
Thanks for testing the WiiiM Mini. I'm very interested in streamers below the Bluesound Node price range, as I'm on a budget. Seems like good value for money, but the Argon Audio SOLO convinces me a lot more, even if I have to save a lot longer for it.
Does digital output really changes? I heard opinions thats its the same quality in 100 and 1000euro streamers. Also Wim have Tidal connect and Argon dont.
The Argon was tested with Setup 3 & 2 with its analog output. It was then tested with its analog output but with better power supply and rated even higher. It was then even tested with its digital output to a good dac in Setup 2 and rated even higher. I wonder how the Mini would have rated if only had been accorded the same treatment?
@@franki8469 There is difference. When you connect the WiiM Mini through its digital output, then the DAC in the connected device does the conversion. If I connect my WiiM Mini to my Cambridge Audio CXNv2 digitally. I can clearly hear the dfference between the Cambridge's DAC doing the digital to analog conversion, compared to the WiiM Mini's own when the WiiM is connected through its AUX output.
I feed the optical output into my Audiolab 6000a, it is excellent, a transparent digital link into a decent DAC and amp, with very good software. I also have an Apple Express, but that is a nightmare to set up and it screws up my wifi network, so it is basically unuseable.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel No thanks, there is no point, the Wiim provides a bit perfect digital output. If others wish to buy boutique audio, that’s fine by me.
Everyone, including me, is looking for something that rivals the Bluesound Node at a fraction of its price. So far, after several months of watching reviews, I think the conclusion is that you get what you pay for. This device and others at sub $200 USD price points are great for what they are, but they aren't "beginner audiophile grade". For that it still looks like the Node is the one to beat, unless you roll your own device using a Raspberry Pi and a digital hat. Even then, if you get a "good" hat and spring for a better power supply, you are approaching the price of the Node. Oh well, looks like no manufacturer is stepping up to beat the Node at $600 or less. Maybe that will change in 2022. Hopefully Hans will let us know if it happens.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel yes, I'll likely end up getting one next year now that Spotify FINALLY should be going lossless. Kept hoping another manufacturer would try challenging them at their price point. I'm currently using an iPAD to feed a Schiit Modi 3+ and think it sounds "pretty good" but having a dedicated streamer/DAC would be cleaner and easier. Thanks!
The Node's internal DAC gets some criticism (I personally could not afford to buy the node and a DAC...) The Zen streamer (no DAC/€400) gets rave reviews for its sound, but its ease of use is apparently not its strong point. I don't really understand why a streamer has to be so expensive, but I guess if the software is good, that is a big expense.
@@sdrtcacgnrjrc supposedly the new Node (not the 2i) has a slightly better DAC. I'm not sure, but many people do like it just fine. I guess I could go with it and use it for a very long time, then see where the benefit/cost ratio is for external DACs, say 3 years from now. With Topping, SMSL, Schiit, Geshelli, and others upgrading often to better sound, you have to think that in 3 more years a $250 DAC should sound as good as a Denafrips Ares II does today. Gotta love technology improvements...
@@rosswarren436 for its ease of use and generally good software and reasonably good sound -- I'd go for it if I could afford it. Am currently looking at the Aragon Audio Solo (only available in EU and also reviewed by Hans) which also has quite good sound -- but improves with a good power supply (they're crazy prices) and especially from a good DAC. There's already DACs for under 300, even under 200 getting great reviews....
Hello Hans thanks for your interesting review, it would be nice of you to review the iFi Streamer which claims it delivers to high end standards. Oh also your opinion on the ultra cheap and very popular Chromecast audio would be very valuable as we can see what they offer for such a small price. Regards.
That might be true but this is a ready to use product that works within a minute. I get a lt of questions about RPi + HAT board problems. Obviously from people that know little about computers, but there are many of those around.
Hi Marco. I had both the ifi stream and the wiim mini linked via toslink to a Marranz 6006pm amplifier. I could hear no difference on Tidal hi-fi. I'll keep the wiim mini
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I scoured your responses but couldn’t find a solid answer to the question of the toslink sound quality compared to the digital out of any other unit.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I am trying to recommend you to listen to the newest and smallest member of the Lyngdorf amplifiers. Really an amazing piece of technology.
I would be interested to see how Chromecasts do for multiroom audio. You can connect using the HDMI cable and stream from Spotify and Tidal, but how is the sound? Would HDMI provide better quality?
I have done some tests with chromecast ultra and chromecast with google tv. Both devices are fixed at 48khz pcm output over hdmi regardless of the input audio format. The chromecast with google tv can be connected to a powered usb hub and output audio to a usb dac connected the the same usb hub. In this case the output is 96khz pcm regardles of the input audio format.
hi Hans, quick question. i use a laptop to steam connected to a DAC. if I replace the laptop with the WIIM but use the same old dac, will there be any difference on sound output/quality? thank you sir!
That depends on your laptop, your stereo and your hearing. The Wii isn't the best streamer in the first place, also not when used digitally our. It's great for the money but not the best streamer.
Good review! 👍 But one thing is missing and that is extensive listening vis the optical out. Its supposed to sound very good and transparent in measurements. would actually believe that almost everone in your audience is going to use it via optical out. Why would anyone look at a channel like yours if they are not using separate dacs and are not interested in sound quality. Of course a 99$ streamer sound bad from the built in dac.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I bought a refurbisched Google Chromecast Audio a few months ago and I am very happy with it via SPdif out to my Amp DAC!. It's a shame its no longer available! Also does Chromecast but the Wiim has Bluetooth IN...
I am very disappointed that you did not do a straight digital signal pass-through via tos-link to a digital signal processor. That is how the majority of us may use it. Yet this huge part of it being a streamer you did not even touch on. I hope you come back and fix. This is a blatant part of this unit you failed to touch on.
It would have been nice to evaluate the performance of the mini using the toslink connector and a good dac. The sound could be much better. The mini could be a cost effective way to endow dacs with streaming capabilities.
@@westernartifact580 because they aren't the DIY kind of people who would invest hours and money (and risk) into building a Raspberry Pi device with a digihat.
thanks a lot for your explaining the feature of this Wiim Mini. I am using, currenly, my Samsung S22 Ultra as a music source for a pair of active/powered speakers, via Bluetooth 5.0, which deliver 24bit/96kHz quality as so stated. My streaming source of Android S22 is Apple Music, which now offers Hi Res music pieces. I am not sure if (1) Wiim Mini works with Apple Music App on Android, and (2) could the sound improves assuming that the Wiim Mini gets directly the Apple Music via WiFi rather than from my Samsung phone. Any advice?
Hi mr. Hans... do you think we can get optical improvement if we put iFi spdif ipurifier 2 in between Wiim and external DAC? Thank you in advance and wish you best
Hello, Hans thanks for the review I really wish you would do another on the Wiim Mini to test its optical out into an external DAC. I have the WIIm mini myself and have it connected to a Schiit audio multibit DAC and find its sound to be not as good as my $35 Chromecast Audio doing the same thing. Apparently I am the only person on the planet that is not just blown away by the Wiim Mini's sound quality when connected to a DAC. The Wiim Mini just sounds dry and lifeless to me. I have it set to its highest resolution and I am testing it with both Tidal and Qobuz. Pop music that is recorded and compressed to be loud is distorted. The EQ feature adds distortion. Cymbals sound like tin cans. I have Dunlavy speakers that can be very revealing at times so maybe that is my problem but so many folks whos opinion I trust rave about the sound quality of the Wiim but personally I just don't get it. I also did not like the sound of Roon no matter how I implemented it so maybe I am sensitive to things others are not. Just really curios as to what you would think of the Wim's sound ran through a DAC. Thank you.
The Wiim is great for the money but in my honest opinion not the right streamer to feed external DAC's. It's like mounting a Porch motor in a Honda Civic. Nothing wrong with the Honda, but it's not suited for such a powerful engine.
Ieast audiocast m50 pro is a good alternative. This one is a few less expensive to the wiim and have a dac ess integrat with a lan input. You can through an external dac too.
Any advice on how to link up a MiiM Mini puck to my Android SM A515U cell phone. I bought one because of many high reviews on easy to boot up. Price, & quality all seemed good. I Have spent many hours tryng to get it to link. The pop up says Phone will not enable WiFi.
This device is worth the money simply for it's software, the ease of use, and support for multiple streaming services, plus, both Spotify and Tidal connect. The software that these streamers come with doesn't get the attention it deserves in these reviews, I have/had a Primare NP390 and Heos streamers, the Wiim Mini's app is far better than either of those 2 devices. Neither the Primare or the Heos support Spotify or Tidal 'connect', which, I believe, is going to become essential in the future, due to ease of use and because you can then use the 'native' app of these services, rather than the watered down versions that come with most supplied apps from Streamer manufacturers. If you have a few Dacs lying around and have a decent system, this device is an absolute bargain.
You mean that if you compare it to an other streamer (like blue node) and output both from digital output to a good dac, this little 99$ streamer will not sound as good?
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks Hans for your great review. As many of our users are interested in the bit perfect output from the optical output, we'll update our device firmware to enable this around Mid Feb. With bit perfect output, you'll get the best possible audio quality from one input source. Please stay tuned.
@@wiimsupport2920 I was pleasantly surprised by your product and have been listening to more music since I bought it - with a smile on my face because of the unexpected sound quality.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for your reply. I’m pretty sure that Tidal connect means that your phone is just a remote and the stream goes directly from the internet to your router and then to your streamer. I don’t know if it’s better but at least it doesn’t drain your phones battery.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I also rather think indeed that the phone's tidal app only serves as a remote. The audio data goes directly from the internet to the wiim mini and not via the phone. Hope my understanding is correct...
Unfortunately, the device only ever seems to output 48kHz / 16bit via Toslink, regardless of the quality of the actual source. It's a shame because otherwise it would be a great streaming solution with a good DAC.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I've wondered why it is "cheaper" to resample any signal and output 16-bit/48kHz than it would be to "simply" pass the stream along at its native resolution?
I used the optical output to connect it to an external DAC. Sound quality is spectaculair and significantly enhanced again by using a iFi iPower adapter.
Highly recommended when used that way!
(R2R DAC, SET tube amp, full range open baffle speakers)
I have read many comments and your response. With respect if you connect to a good dac with a decent toslink cable the sound quality is easily as good as using a bluesound node. In fact mine feeds a denafrips DAC and sounds outstanding. I think you have not reviewed this product particularly thoroughly, which I am rather surprised by.
Let's agree to disagree.
Fed up of binning CD players ! Whatever I have ever purchased has failed for various reasons . This was my solution too for my second system. Brilliant little tool.
It's great for the money
I'm using a WiiM Mini in my kitchen. Teamed up with a cheap portable Internet radio. Makes for some nice background music while doing the dishes.
Hello Hans. I know you are very sceptical about streaming without severe jitter control.
However, we are many with the same request: can you test the wiim mini with the use or the toslink output please. Personally I have the wiim mini and inked to the optical input of my Maranz 6006 pm (not the best... I know). The result sounds very nice. I compared it to the '' ifi zen stream '', which is a much more expensive streamer (400€) which I connected to another optical input of my amplifier. After extensive lisening to multiple tracks I really could hear no difference. I tested both with ''Tidal connect'' on ''hi-fi quality'' (not master).
I would love to hear your opinion after a similar test!
If it sounds good, why do you want my opinion?
The ifi zen stream doesn't have an optical out in the 1st place but only a coax and USB.
Secondly your Marantz is the bottle neck here, which basically means, you need next level teir DAC to reveal the difference from the Zen Stream and also next upgraded stereo AMP as well to get the best out of it.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Because you have a trained ear Hans. That's why 😊
@@Jamy4ya That indeed sounds logical Jamy. Thanks
Hi Hans, thanks for the review! I wish you had played the WiiM through a better DAC! I would like to know how that sounded to you! I use my WiiM via optical to my McIntosh c50 preamp built in DAC. This little streamer sounds fantastic when you use a better DAC. I actually hear more detail and a little deeper soundstage with the WiiM as compared to my iPad/ Audioquest cobalt combo via RCA into the McIntosh c50.
Of course you do. But have you ever tried a streamer of equal quality to your c50. There is a lot to gain, compared to the WiiM digital out.
The point is that the wiim has the potential to sound great, even for hifi lovers if you use a better DAC.
I don’t think I agry
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel have you tried it with a better DAC?
I'd be interested to know how this performed with a standalone dac and not the internal. This is an ideal product for a separates sytem instead of buying a completely separate streamer
Forget about using a cheap streamer to feed an more expensive DAC That never works since quality clock crystals are costly.
Hi, please give it a try and let us know how you feel about the audio quality especially with the bit perfect output up to 192 kHz/24 bit support soon. Regarding the crystal we used, it's under +/- 10 ppm.
Yes please Hans. Can you test the use or the toslink output please. I have the wiim mini and inked to the optical input of my Maranz 6006 pm it sounds nice. I compared it to the '' ifi stream '', which is a much more expensive streamer (400€) which I connected to another optical input. I really could hear no difference. I tested both with Tidal connect on hi-fi quality (not master)
@@wiimsupport2920 I am in the UK and would love to try this. Where can I buy it? Thanks.
@@nespressoman Amazon
I like that it can be connected to a better DAC in the future. Just ordered it.
But if the digital output will please you is another story I'm afraid.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I've read that the optical output is limited to 48khz, is that true? My plan was to feed Audiolab 6000a internal DAC with it.
From my perspective, either I would go with something like this or with something that cost a lot more, since I'm gonna use only Tidal connect HIFI with it. What do you think?
@@miloshzhupac Hi Milos, TIDAL HiFi resolution is limited to 44.1 kHz/16-bit. WiiM Mini will upsample it to 48 kHz/16 bit when connecting with digital optical output. We'll have device firmware update around Mid. Feb to support the bit perfect output soon. With this, you can get the best possible audio quality from the device.
Hans, it would be great if you could update the test, as the Wiim now offers Ultra HD Toslink Output , and is therefore the cheapest solution on the Market.
I know. I only have to find time....
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel maybe even worth waiting a couple of weeks as they want to implement Amazon HD that is not yet running @ ultra levels , maybe you can catch up with the developers
Seems whenever i discover something new, i find that Hans has already made a review on the product ;) Bedankt Hans! The Toslink output can be interesting for those who combine it wilth a more expensive DAC. Seems like a (bit-)perfect Chromecast replacement.
The digital output is is of limited quality.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel That's a shame. :-(
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Not anymore... Maybe time to review the toslink output since it is bitperfect?
@@run4b33r yeah. My Marantz M-CR612 clearly mentions that it receives 24 bits 192 kHz from the WiiM Mini when playing a 24/192 track from Qobuz.
If you you use the toslink connection to a high quality external DAC, then the sound quality is essentially as good as the DAC.
If only..
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Care to elaborate?
AS I have said repeatedly in my videos a digital interface is as good as the implementation of it. Which means that in one case USB Audio Class 2 will be better, another time AES/EBU, I²S or SPDIF. The quality of both the sending and receiving devices interfaces determine pollution of the ground plane and phase noise and thus the jitter close to the DAC chip. Those problems are very seldom 100% solved in a DAC since it requires expensive components and even more expensive expertise at the design stage.
And how the optical output souds ?
Is it better them the analogic output ?
I mean : this streamer generates a good signal to be used whit a external dac without loose quality ?
This is very rare video can check inside of Wiim Mini. Thanks a lot!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Did you use the internal dac on the mini? If I attached it to my McIntosh integrated amp with a toslink, it should sound as good as any other higher-end streamer, no?
No. The Wiim is a very simple device, not of the quality of the McIntosh. That also influences the digital output. It has a higher phase noise, less clean ground plane and less perfect square wave signal. That will have influence on how the digital to analog converter in the amp can do the conversion.
So I just set this up and was expecting a little better sound quality. Suggestions? innuus, Node? Thank you.
Both!
I just did a quick comparison between WiiM Mini and Bluesound Vault 2, and using Spotify as source. Both feeds into my external DAC and the WiiM is very close in sound to Bluesound. The main difference is the music details and some high frequency roll off on WiiM Mini but they are about 90% close given the price differences. Without the direct AB comparison, you will not miss anything
That depends largely on the rest of your stereo
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Very true. The DAC I was using for the comparison is a Bryston BDA-1
What makes this streamer interesting is its bit perfect toslink out - which measures better than any dac on the market, meaning the limiting factor will be you dac, regardless of price.
That is a rather bolt statement and I must disagree. It’s a nice streamer for the money nothing more, nothing less.
The wiim mini now does 192/24 over toslink. Can someone with a Amazon hd suscription test this on a ultra hd title with a dac (to see if it works ans how it sounds?)?
Must have got at FW up.
@@ch33psk8 Yes indeed. There is a new FW version since a couple of days.
Great video, I would emphasize the optical cable can connect to a high quality dac for superb sound quality. I have this streamer and have not ever listened to the internal dac.
Thanks for sharing!
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hello, I was previously using a BluDento BLT-HD high-definition Bluetooth connected via optical cable to my dac, and I thought it sounded really good; however, after connecting the WiiM with optical cable to the same dac, the sound difference was so obviously better to me. I was so pleased!😀
What kind of speakers are needed for this Wiim mini to connect to wirelessly? Just bluetooth speakers?
No, you'll need an amp and normal speakers.
It is common knowledge among audio forums that the Wiim analog out is not audiophile quality.
But that doesn't matter.
Audiophiles use the toslink output, which is known to be bit perfect since q2 2022 software updates.
There are several methods to test for bit perfect output. Many methods clearly demonstrate the wiim outputs 16/44.1 to 24/192 bit perfect over toslink to a DAC.
So the sound quality is determined by the DAC and Everything connected to the DAC after.
The second most important aspect of a hardware streamer is the software quality and user interface.
The consensus among the Darkos of the world is that the Wiim meets or beats all other streamer software for usability and stability, with only BlueOs possibly better for some cases.
I agree on all points
The digital audio isn't of audiophile quality either. The WIIM is great for the money, but that is what it is.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel we'll have to agree to disagree 😉
Many objective digital bit stream test methods indicate the wiim delivers digital audio unchanged over toslink:. playing dts or dop encoded .wav files through the wiim to DACs or processors over toslink with no audible dropouts and correct bitstream detection; recording the toslink output from an audiophile grade Cd player and then playing and recording the toslink output of the wiim playing the same wav track ripped and verified from the same Cd and comparing recorded files using known audio tools on a Mac or PC; and testing the jitter using digital audio test equipment over toslink, very low
Thanks for testing the WiiiM Mini. I'm very interested in streamers below the Bluesound Node price range, as I'm on a budget. Seems like good value for money, but the Argon Audio SOLO convinces me a lot more, even if I have to save a lot longer for it.
Correct
Does digital output really changes? I heard opinions thats its the same quality in 100 and 1000euro streamers.
Also Wim have Tidal connect and Argon dont.
There is a clear quality difference between the digital output of a cheap and a more expensive streamer.
The Argon was tested with Setup 3 & 2 with its analog output. It was then tested with its analog output but with better power supply and rated even higher. It was then even tested with its digital output to a good dac in Setup 2 and rated even higher. I wonder how the Mini would have rated if only had been accorded the same treatment?
@@franki8469 There is difference. When you connect the WiiM Mini through its digital output, then the DAC in the connected device does the conversion.
If I connect my WiiM Mini to my Cambridge Audio CXNv2 digitally. I can clearly hear the dfference between the Cambridge's DAC doing the digital to analog conversion, compared to the WiiM Mini's own when the WiiM is connected through its AUX output.
I feed the optical output into my Audiolab 6000a, it is excellent, a transparent digital link into a decent DAC and amp, with very good software. I also have an Apple Express, but that is a nightmare to set up and it screws up my wifi network, so it is basically unuseable.
You should try a better one, like the SOtM sMS-200 Neo once....
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel No thanks, there is no point, the Wiim provides a bit perfect digital output. If others wish to buy boutique audio, that’s fine by me.
Everyone, including me, is looking for something that rivals the Bluesound Node at a fraction of its price. So far, after several months of watching reviews, I think the conclusion is that you get what you pay for. This device and others at sub $200 USD price points are great for what they are, but they aren't "beginner audiophile grade". For that it still looks like the Node is the one to beat, unless you roll your own device using a Raspberry Pi and a digital hat. Even then, if you get a "good" hat and spring for a better power supply, you are approaching the price of the Node. Oh well, looks like no manufacturer is stepping up to beat the Node at $600 or less. Maybe that will change in 2022. Hopefully Hans will let us know if it happens.
Not ‘everyone’, you are. There are many happy Node users amongst my viewers. An you get what you pay for, most of the time.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel yes, I'll likely end up getting one next year now that Spotify FINALLY should be going lossless. Kept hoping another manufacturer would try challenging them at their price point.
I'm currently using an iPAD to feed a Schiit Modi 3+ and think it sounds "pretty good" but having a dedicated streamer/DAC would be cleaner and easier. Thanks!
The Node's internal DAC gets some criticism (I personally could not afford to buy the node and a DAC...) The Zen streamer (no DAC/€400) gets rave reviews for its sound, but its ease of use is apparently not its strong point. I don't really understand why a streamer has to be so expensive, but I guess if the software is good, that is a big expense.
@@sdrtcacgnrjrc supposedly the new Node (not the 2i) has a slightly better DAC. I'm not sure, but many people do like it just fine. I guess I could go with it and use it for a very long time, then see where the benefit/cost ratio is for external DACs, say 3 years from now.
With Topping, SMSL, Schiit, Geshelli, and others upgrading often to better sound, you have to think that in 3 more years a $250 DAC should sound as good as a Denafrips Ares II does today.
Gotta love technology improvements...
@@rosswarren436 for its ease of use and generally good software and reasonably good sound -- I'd go for it if I could afford it. Am currently looking at the Aragon Audio Solo (only available in EU and also reviewed by Hans) which also has quite good sound -- but improves with a good power supply (they're crazy prices) and especially from a good DAC. There's already DACs for under 300, even under 200 getting great reviews....
Hello Hans thanks for your interesting review, it would be nice of you to review the iFi Streamer which claims it delivers to high end standards. Oh also your opinion on the ultra cheap and very popular Chromecast audio would be very valuable as we can see what they offer for such a small price. Regards.
A Raspberry pi4 with Volumio, and Ifi power X + ifi usb purifier 3 sounds about the same.
Didn't hear any huge difference.
That might be true but this is a ready to use product that works within a minute. I get a lt of questions about RPi + HAT board problems. Obviously from people that know little about computers, but there are many of those around.
Hi Marco. I had both the ifi stream and the wiim mini linked via toslink to a Marranz 6006pm amplifier. I could hear no difference on Tidal hi-fi. I'll keep the wiim mini
@@ThePalle44 Do you think we can get optical improvement, if we put iFi spdif ipurifier 2 in between Wiim and external DAC?
I would be interested in the digital output via toslink performance
Look at the answers I gave to there others with the same question
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I scoured your responses but couldn’t find a solid answer to the question of the toslink sound quality compared to the digital out of any other unit.
Hi, currently the TOSLINK supports 48 kHz/16-bit output. We'll have the device firmware that enables bit perfect output around Mid. Feb.
2:22 there is a mistake, this is not a DRAM, it is a flash where the code is stored !
Ah, thank you
Excellent and clear review! How it compares with the Argon Solo? Thanks
I have reviewed the Solo. here: ruclips.net/video/DjrkraGd_F4/видео.html
How much better is the sound quality using the toslink? Is it just the DA that that gives the bad highs?
No, it’s also the clock
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannelthanks…does it perform better at least from the toslink or just about the same then?
Is there anything wrong with recommending a product for review? I have now twice got a comment deleted.
Yes. I don’t do recommending for I can’t judge your situation, your stereo, your acoustics, your sound preferences and how you value money.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel You can even find it as a demo at a local shop near you. I had one for a home demo for a week. :)
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hmm. It seems when I mention the name of the amplifier then my post gets removed. Is there really a rule against that?
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I am trying to recommend you to listen to the newest and smallest member of the Lyngdorf amplifiers. Really an amazing piece of technology.
Interesting unit, i just bought a similar device 👍
Enjoy it
I would be interested to see how Chromecasts do for multiroom audio. You can connect using the HDMI cable and stream from Spotify and Tidal, but how is the sound? Would HDMI provide better quality?
I have done some tests with chromecast ultra and chromecast with google tv. Both devices are fixed at 48khz pcm output over hdmi regardless of the input audio format. The chromecast with google tv can be connected to a powered usb hub and output audio to a usb dac connected the the same usb hub. In this case the output is 96khz pcm regardles of the input audio format.
Thanks for sharing
hi Hans, quick question. i use a laptop to steam connected to a DAC. if I replace the laptop with the WIIM but use the same old dac, will there be any difference on sound output/quality? thank you sir!
That depends on your laptop, your stereo and your hearing. The Wii isn't the best streamer in the first place, also not when used digitally our. It's great for the money but not the best streamer.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks, i was hoping for convenience's sake but I wouldnt want a sounds downgrade. yes too many ppl praising this device.
Would there be a big difference using this via rca as opposed to a toslink or digital out?
That depends on whether the the device connected digitally has a good jitter killer aboard.
I too would like to know how the toslink out performs,
Read the answers I gave here
Hi, currently the TOSLINK supports 48 kHz/16-bit output. We'll have the device firmware that enables bit perfect output around Mid. Feb.
Can you output Tidal connect content over AirPlay to Airplay speakers?
Yes, on an Apple product.
Hans, thank you for this review. I was curious about the WiiM and the $99 price.
My pleasure!
And did you try one? Or did you allow this review to discourage you from doing so? If so you may have missed out on something very good.
Good review! 👍 But one thing is missing and that is extensive listening vis the optical out. Its supposed to sound very good and transparent in measurements. would actually believe that almost everone in your audience is going to use it via optical out. Why would anyone look at a channel like yours if they are not using separate dacs and are not interested in sound quality. Of course a 99$ streamer sound bad from the built in dac.
cheap streamers can be a fun solution but rarely form a good base for upgrading with an external DAC.
Interesting product, if I connect the stteamer via optical to my preamp (with built-in DAC) will the sound quality improve you think? Thank u
I can't say since I don't know your conditions, equipment and so on. Sorry.
Excellent review Hans!
Glad you enjoyed it
Is that something like a Google Chromecast Audio?
Kind off
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I bought a refurbisched Google Chromecast Audio a few months ago and I am very happy with it via SPdif out to my Amp DAC!. It's a shame its no longer available! Also does Chromecast but the Wiim has Bluetooth IN...
I am very disappointed that you did not do a straight digital signal pass-through via tos-link to a digital signal processor. That is how the majority of us may use it. Yet this huge part of it being a streamer you did not even touch on. I hope you come back and fix. This is a blatant part of this unit you failed to touch on.
I did that in a recent video
It would have been nice to evaluate the performance of the mini using the toslink connector and a good dac. The sound could be much better. The mini could be a cost effective way to endow dacs with streaming capabilities.
Please read my reactions to to other remarks here.
Good question
@@westernartifact580 because they aren't the DIY kind of people who would invest hours and money (and risk) into building a Raspberry Pi device with a digihat.
An iFi SPDIF iPurifier 2 would mitigate any digital errors. 😁
Hi, currently the TOSLINK supports 48 kHz/16-bit output. We'll have the device firmware that enables bit perfect output around Mid. Feb.
thanks a lot for your explaining the feature of this Wiim Mini. I am using, currenly, my Samsung S22 Ultra as a music source for a pair of active/powered speakers, via Bluetooth 5.0, which deliver 24bit/96kHz quality as so stated. My streaming source of Android S22 is Apple Music, which now offers Hi Res music pieces. I am not sure if (1) Wiim Mini works with Apple Music App on Android, and (2) could the sound improves assuming that the Wiim Mini gets directly the Apple Music via WiFi rather than from my Samsung phone. Any advice?
Enjoy the music
Thank you for the Video. A question, Does the Toslink output connected to an external Dac bypass the internal DAC chip?
Of course. But it does use the same clock crystal.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel does it sound better via optical out?
Hi mr. Hans... do you think we can get optical improvement if we put iFi spdif ipurifier 2 in between Wiim and external DAC? Thank you in advance and wish you best
I think you better invest in a higher quality streamer.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you mr. Hans. You are a gem :). Would you suggest Node or something else? Cheers
See my reviews. That’s why I made them😃
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Yes of course, I will. Thank you so much.
hi Hans, is smartphone/ tablet an ideal device as music streamer?
no
The smartphone/ tablet here is really operating as a remote control, not a streamer.
Does it also set the Bluetooth name to the name you choose for the device?
Yes
Hello, Hans thanks for the review I really wish you would do another on the Wiim Mini to test its optical out into an external DAC. I have the WIIm mini myself and have it connected to a Schiit audio multibit DAC and find its sound to be not as good as my $35 Chromecast Audio doing the same thing. Apparently I am the only person on the planet that is not just blown away by the Wiim Mini's sound quality when connected to a DAC. The Wiim Mini just sounds dry and lifeless to me. I have it set to its highest resolution and I am testing it with both Tidal and Qobuz. Pop music that is recorded and compressed to be loud is distorted. The EQ feature adds distortion. Cymbals sound like tin cans. I have Dunlavy speakers that can be very revealing at times so maybe that is my problem but so many folks whos opinion I trust rave about the sound quality of the Wiim but personally I just don't get it. I also did not like the sound of Roon no matter how I implemented it so maybe I am sensitive to things others are not. Just really curios as to what you would think of the Wim's sound ran through a DAC.
Thank you.
The Wiim is great for the money but in my honest opinion not the right streamer to feed external DAC's. It's like mounting a Porch motor in a Honda Civic. Nothing wrong with the Honda, but it's not suited for such a powerful engine.
Ieast audiocast m50 pro is a good alternative. This one is a few less expensive to the wiim and have a dac ess integrat with a lan input. You can through an external dac too.
Any advice on how to link up a MiiM Mini puck to my Android SM A515U cell phone. I bought one because of many high reviews on easy to boot up. Price, & quality all seemed good. I Have spent many hours tryng to get it to link. The pop up says Phone will not enable WiFi.
I know nothing about Android phones. Sorry.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks anyway, I am hoping to get factory help
This device is worth the money simply for it's software, the ease of use, and support for multiple streaming services, plus, both Spotify and Tidal connect.
The software that these streamers come with doesn't get the attention it deserves in these reviews, I have/had a Primare NP390 and Heos streamers, the Wiim Mini's app is far better than either of those 2 devices.
Neither the Primare or the Heos support Spotify or Tidal 'connect', which, I believe, is going to become essential in the future, due to ease of use and because you can then use the 'native' app of these services, rather than the watered down versions that come with most supplied apps from Streamer manufacturers.
If you have a few Dacs lying around and have a decent system, this device is an absolute bargain.
You mean that if you compare it to an other streamer (like blue node) and output both from digital output to a good dac, this little 99$ streamer will not sound as good?
That’s exactly what I meant
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks Hans for your great review. As many of our users are interested in the bit perfect output from the optical output, we'll update our device firmware to enable this around Mid Feb. With bit perfect output, you'll get the best possible audio quality from one input source. Please stay tuned.
@@wiimsupport2920 I was pleasantly surprised by your product and have been listening to more music since I bought it - with a smile on my face because of the unexpected sound quality.
eeh... what about tidal connect? What does he mean "stream from your phone", am I missing something here?
You play Tidal on your phone and send it to the Wii Mini.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for your reply. I’m pretty sure that Tidal connect means that your phone is just a remote and the stream goes directly from the internet to your router and then to your streamer. I don’t know if it’s better but at least it doesn’t drain your phones battery.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I also rather think indeed that the phone's tidal app only serves as a remote. The audio data goes directly from the internet to the wiim mini and not via the phone. Hope my understanding is correct...
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel - What about Qobuz...?
will this Streamer play better than win 10 laptop?
yes
Unfortunately, the device only ever seems to output 48kHz / 16bit via Toslink, regardless of the quality of the actual source. It's a shame because otherwise it would be a great streaming solution with a good DAC.
Well, it might comfort you that the digital output is what you can expect for he money.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I've wondered why it is "cheaper" to resample any signal and output 16-bit/48kHz than it would be to "simply" pass the stream along at its native resolution?
@@rosswarren436 It is a limitation of Android.
Thanks for your great comments. We'll update the device firmware to enable the bit perfect output from optical port around Mid Feb. Please stay tuned!
They've updated the product and more updates are coming, so should be up to 192 now