LOW BUCK VS BIG BUCK-ARE CRATE MOTORS REALLY WORTH THE PRICE?
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
- HOW TO SAVE BIG BUCKS! JUNKYARD VS CRATE MOTORS-WHO WINS? CHECK OUT THIS COMPARISON BETWEEN A JUNKYARD 5.9L MAGNUM 360 (RATED AT 245 HP) FROM A DODGE RAM TRUCK, AND A MOPAR PERFORMANCE 360 MAGNUM MOTOR (RATED AT 300 HP). WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN POWER BETWEEN A MP 360 CRATE MOTOR COSTING $5K-$6K AND A JUNKYARD 360 COSTING BETWEEN $500-$600 (OR LESS ON SALE DAYS)?
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With the current price of lumber, the additional cost is the crate itself.
If you put in a 408 stroker kit, cam and new ported heads maby 5500$ but then you get a awsom motor!
Even with a $400 ring, bearing, dingle ball job and $1100 Holley it's cheaper than the crate engine.
Gap the rings, cam and springs, Holley ECU, upgraded injectors too. Then its time for turbo. Everything needs turbo.
@@jamesgeorge4874 hx35w, decapped flex injectors. All of that can be taken when you buy the engine. 500hp in a little Dakota would be wild on the street.
@@Go4BrokeOffroad whole set of 8 6.4 Hemi injectors in an intake laying in the scrap pile at work, I don't trust decaps, I am going to get a couple of injectors from a CNG truck to send out for testing though.
@@jamesgeorge4874 I've had good luck so far. Afr headed 351w. Decapped, vortech sc.
@@Go4BrokeOffroad thats cool, and I sure as hell won't criticize I guy thats making it happen. Happy tire smoke, my freind!
Actually surprised the power curves were so close especially between the Kegger and the dual plane. Looking forward to seeing an intake showdown on the junkyard magnum. Keep up the great work and thanks for running through all these tests for us 👍🏻
I have both the Mopar dual plane and Edelbrock air gap magnum manifold here for my 360. I can't wait to see a side by side.
The kegger works great to 3500 after that it's done.
Keggers are great down low they are really an awesome manifold for what they are designed for. Valley cover could be a lot better done but if you want torque to 5k rpm the kegger is your manifold.
It's funny how I had to watch this video twice to see that when he says they make the same power the graph actually shows the carb makes 10 more HP and 15 more TQ at the earliest readings below 3000 RPM and the HP difference seems to be even greater at lower RPM. The dual plane and carb actually beat the keg on low end pretty bad and would be much faster than the stock EFI when tested in the same vehicle. I can confirm this too as I have a dual plane carb swapped 5.9 Magnum that is an absolute torque monster running 8.60's in the eighth N/A.
I get cores, then rebuild them the way I want them. Meaning I run the pistons, rods, bearings, cam, rockers, springs, locks and other stuff that I want, not the lowest cost or stock barely adequate stuff. Not many Pontiac crate engines out there anyway. The rebuilders come with the cheapest stuff, and very mild cams, so I would have to change all that and probably rectify machine work they half assed. With LS engines I will pull them out of a running truck, HPT the ECM, and stuff them in an older truck. Sometimes with a cam, headers, etc.
I can build one hell of an engine for the $5k of an average crate engine, and for the $13k some of them cost I can get really stupid making power far in excess of the crate engines. I build them, I know what the hell I am doing, so a warranty is not a draw for me. I build better than mass production.
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@@AtulPatel-wq8rr I agree Atul
@@89JDmac well said
@@AtulPatel-wq8rr I was thinking the exact same thing
Well here is 7k build me an engine lol
I went to the junkyard got a 78 351w and c6 for $300. Trip to the machine shop $450, rebuild kit with comp magnum 280 cam $385, fresh set of gt 40s with springs and stainless valves $450, performer rpm air gap from market place $175 and a factory refurbed Holley for $250. Runs pretty strong could use a little converter 2k for motor and trans isn't bad.
I paid $500 for a “running 351w out of a 88 one ton that was used at the fish plant. The guy dripped it off and it looked really rusty from all the salt water. Broke 5 exh studs… then all four outer intake bolt snapped off in the heads. Then one bellhousing bolt!!! Oil pan was soft and started leaking, had to cut the whole bottom off and weld it up. Started taking the waterpump bolts out and of course broke 2 off. This was all due to the inspiration of richard doing the junkyard 351 stuff! Lol!
Mains and rods were really good and the cyl look good. Ordered mains/rods/oil pump frim rockauto and got a 69 4bbl intake from my cousin. I have gt40p heads and i think ill stick in the stock roller cam from a 5.0. Long road but cheaper than $5500 i guess.
Love it please keep giving the mopar the love few people do your awesome
Just found this video, and im not getting any notifications...🤔 I'm not surprised that they we're so similar. I new the Kegger wasn't junk.
Awesome 😎👍 job guys Keep up the great Build's/Works 🤙
I'm a junkyard guy and I'm good with it. You can buy more speed parts with the money saved!
Woohoo! More magnum stuff!
I'm amazed the cuves are that similar between the dual plane and keg. Fascinating no doubt
Great now our $200 junk yards motors will now be $4000 here once this video gets out .
Get them while you can. I can't find them here under 600.
@@kuhndog-1196 I picked up a 95 short block for $125 not long ago it's in great shape and still drilled for LA oiling
@@aaronbarnes8938 Well lucky you! I'd love to find a deal like that.
I've picked up several rusty trucks for less than $500, running and driving, since June. Four 6.0s, five 5.3s, a 4.8 and two vortec 5.7 sbcs. Now I can pawn off the junk, fix the decent trucks to sell them, and maybe do a turbo LS in some crap box... for science and fun.
yup.....
Yabut, I get a sticker with the crate motor which automatically makes my car run 10's.... 💩
I get stickers with every part on the motor I build. More stickers equal faster et
LMAO!🤣
The difference comes down to hassle. The magnum crate engine comes with the LA style timing cover, accessories, oil pan, intake manifold, etc. All you had to do was drop it into your car As a direct replacement for a LA motor, add a carb and you were ready to go. Is that worth the difference in price? Probably not for most people with mechanical skills but it certainly took a lot of the guesswork and risk out of the job. I seem to recall these crate engines costing more like $3500 back in the late 90s. Am I imagining that?
That price is correct
I bought the most clapped out 5.9 Magnum from the junkyard years ago. Only thing I've done to it was keep up the maintenance and put headers in a carburetor on. Still going.
I see alot of comments asking why the keg didn't have any advantage in torque considering thats what it was designed for, if you look closely the dyno numbers start at 3000 rpm, the "keg" improves low rpm torque, the last dyno test i saw was no joke, over a 50 ft/lbs increase in torque at 2000 rpm, its a very complex 60 lbs hunk of aluminum and it does work
It seems to me that crate motors are not as cost effective or appealing as they once were. The cost of the crate motors have went up considerably and quality performance parts have came down considerably in price. It looks to me that a lot of the cost for a crate motor is tied up in labor and warranty. I think a lot more power and performance can be had for the same cost of a crate motor if you are willing to do the research and build it yourself. But you will also assume all the liability if anything goes wrong. A lot of people just love the security of a warranty but every time I have ever tried to claim a warranty it was more trouble than it was worth.
Bingo
We'd need those 351 Windsor videos rich 🤝🏾🔥🔥
Just watched the vortec head comparison video man. So, perhaps a junkyard L31, vs. a stock replacement crate L31. For the extra cash spent on the new vortec 350, invest same amount into junkyard engine and test. Hope the idea bugs you. Great videos man!
I recently bought a 1996 ram 2500, stock engine was a 5.9L 360, but it was swapped out at 330,000km for a crate engine With 100,000km on it. Runs just fine, although I think they were tight on the budget as used original Injectors. So I got some new injectors
As long as the ring and valve seal is good in the junkyard motor, spending the extra $5k is pointless.
Honestly speaking. If I had the money, time and space I would go with a junkyard motor all day.
Unfortunately right now I don't so I had a shop put in a crate replacement. Under a 3 year, 100k warranty. With the extra work alongside the motor it was 11k, but my 2002 1500 sport runs and drives great again and it's paid for unlike a new rig with an outlandish price.
For me, it all depends on the situation.
My ratty 68 Camino is getting a junkyard 5.3L. It’s a toy/passion project. If it breaks, oh well. It’s built on the relatively cheap.
The 02 Tahoe I just picked up is getting a crate 5.3 long block. It’s in good condition. It has a rebuilt trans. It’s a business expense. And the block will come with a warranty.
Love it!
Kinda surprised that the keg intake essentially duplicated the torque curve of the two-plane carb'd setup. I expected those long runners to act more like a Chev TPI intake. Don't remember seeing a comparison of TPI vs Performer for example.
Hey Richard, what cam would you suggest for a 5.9 in a Dakota RT? I have an efi M1, Edelbrock RPM heads, F&B 52mm throttle body. Going to get some 1.7 rockers but unsure what cam I should go with. Any suggestion would be appreciated, and thanks for the great Mopar content!
I wish shipping were cheaper... I'd love to send Richard my crossfire setups to test with. One bone stock the other ported and I even have a set of bored throttle bodies... I'd be curious to see the "real" difference and it'd be a great other guys. I even have a renegade intake that's a little messed up too.
Another great upload any way sir. Keep it up, you keep me sane on the night shift!
I LIKE THOSE Xs
@@richardholdener1727 If you're ever in New Jersey... I'll gladly donate some time in the name of science. 🍻
Are you planning on testing a single plane Mopar M1) manifold vs the dual plane & kegger?
A magnum short block is another good option if your budget is somewhere in the middle
turbo magnum! turbo magnum! turbo magnum! What if you put your cam with the kegger and then added turbo? I think your 7875 would be perfect... nice and responsive like on a 6.0L LS and would make more power than maybe you'd want to on stock magnum internals...
Good video Richard should be called Mopar standard replacement motor not Mopar performance haha the results were kinda what is to be expected from a standard replacement engine I would of thought.
Any chance you'll be doing the kegger modification in shortening the intake runners to see comparison? Keep up the great content!!
yes
Maybe it's just me, but the kegger seems to be dissed on alot, yet the ls has what appears to be a kegger with the throttle body in the front and that seems to be fine. What are the differences that make the ls kegger a better manifold?
Everything is more expensive in California, the local u pull here in Michigan it's 169.99+ 50.00 core for any engine but a diesel.
Anyone else notice how that camera angle and toolbox behind him makes him look like a little kid sitting at the adults table
or compare the kegger to a fancy single plane manifold with and without turbo and the cam!
Spending big $ on a new crate motor is like a warranty, it makes people feel good inside.
I'm pretty sure the crate motor does have a warranty! 😆 🤣 Some junk yards will give you a 30 day warranty though.
@@wannabeetiger how many junkyard motors can I buy and break for 5K?!.
Is there a crank position sensor with the holley hp?
Nice
Which one lasts the longest?
You prove what I always said. I can buy the junkyard engine rebuild it at 1/4 of what a crate engine is.
Where do you get these awesome shirts??
to me, its not what you get, but how long will it last!!.....the difference is for $500 you get somebody elses junk that might make it thru next week...for $5500 you get a new motor built the way you want that should last over 100k miles...you get what u pay for
I’m in Australia. We don’t have junkyard 360s here. How can I get one of these shipped for my Chrysler Valiant?
I still have a hard time appreciating anything about the mopar 360. Even in the second gen rams they just seem to run kinda ragged when they get older and have lower main bearing issues compared to the lowly 318. Neither of them had respectable power factory but. My two cents. I like the little 318 over the 360.
Right on
Has Mopar Performance discontinued the 5.9L crate motors? I've scoured their site, but cannot find it. Thanks!
These motors are extremely durable, and reliable. If your putting together a show car and you have that kind of money then most will go new crate. If it's gonna be a street machine that's a runner at the strip then anyone who's hands on and in the know is gonna go to the wrecking yard. Especially since these motors are overstocked and a cost effective alternative. Even cheaper if you want the smaller 318/5.2 version.
Now what about doing the Ford 3.8L V6?
How about comparing a 408 ls stroker versus a 408 w stroker???
To turn the junkyard engine into the crate motor you'd have to buy the intake, valve covers, oil pan, pickup tube, timing cover, water pump, fuel pump eccentric (the junkyard cam won't have the provisions for this, so really you'd have to change the cam too), distributor, distributor hold down, thermostat housing, gaskets, etc. So while the junkyard engine looks like a better deal, you really get quite a bit with the crate engine plus it's a new engine.
I would expect a better camshaft on the crate engine. Richard shows that too in his way by testing a different camshaft only on the crate engine.
no you dont lol. those parts are cheap.
The intake bolts snap on the junkyard motors. Ask me how i know.
I wonder if my bone stock h22a4 with 330,000 miles, still makes it’s 200 hp.
What timing are you running on the junkyard one I have a holley sniper/hyperspark system on my 360 magnum, and while it runs good just think there's more in it
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Please put a turbo on the JYD motor!
So you can take the junk yard motor put the money you saved into the motor and make tons more power in it than the crate motor
For ~$5,000, you could put a pretty good build on a junk yard pick. You can even afford fuel injection, Nitrous oxide, and perhaps, even boost!
Insane!
Well, at least Mopar is consistent.
Buying new vs buying used is about having assurance from a new item vs gambling on a used item. Applicable on almost anything.
That being said, i'd go with new if i had the money. I'd go with junkyard if i am willing to risk getting a crap used motor.
Is the “kegger” a bad EFI manifold or is the M1 a really good dual plane? As others, I would have expected a bigger difference in torque curves.
dual plane intakes work very well for this rpm range
The Kegger is like a short cross ram. With tuning of the ports thay can flow up to 280 CFM per port UTAwsesome Perf has dyno runs and flow bench tests. They also have a 1280 CFM throttle body
There used to be a carbed crate version of the Magnum 360 in the Mopar parts catalogue that was rated at 375 or 380 horsepower. I always wondered what the major difference was there.
Bigger cam different valve springs and m1 single plane intake i believe=380hp. Not much to it really. Same heads and pistons as any regular 360 mag.
bigger cam, single plane intake.
New versus used. It's up to the person buying the engine I guess. Do you want something that will last or do you want something that is questionable cuz it's used?
Exactly, depends on rather you plan to keep the vehicle
If you know how to work on the engine buy used but if you don't just get the new one
@@nalgas5569 I agree
Get the Mopar Performace porting template PDF and go to town.
Buy a second junkyard motor at have it sit on the shelf just incase! If your the handy type your going to be massively ahead
Was hoping the junkyard motor would do good if not better and yah its about the same
Why do you think it made 40hp over stock? No accessories? the Holley efi? Or underrated factory? Those were rated at 245
underrated, and the factory efi management is GARBAGE. also, the cams are junk, and they are retarded 3 degrees from the factory.
headers, cold, no acc, optimized tune
Hoi Richard do you do a test for a stroker upgrade for a Mopar 360ci to a 408ci stroker with M1 intake and fuel injection?
I have not run that combo
@@richardholdener1727 i have that combo in my ext cab dakota and I'm curious about what kind of power that combo can make. A lot of guys have that 360 to 408ci cstroker conversion kit. For my situation personally I have Forged Ross pistons, Eagle forged rods with ported and polished Magnum heads and a holley 2bbl throttlebody. The plan is to add a procharger with 10-12lbs of boost. can you give me some tips on what HP i can expect? I didn't know how to contact you directly to ask you but through
this forum
Did u ever use speedmaster heads?
If so, are they ok?
HAVE NOT TRIED THE DODGE ONES
Like good used power!
Thanks for the comparison. I know for sure there is more top end power to be had with a 4 barrel, I've seen a Motor Trend article where they got 319 HP with the same intake and same size carb, although they used an open spacer and ran no choke flap. I know LOTS of other variables could account for this difference too but we have to admit the kegger and electronic two barrel could never completely match the performance of the carb and intake in a real world application.
Even in a condition like this where they make equal top end power the computerized two barrel EFI will never have the bottom end response of a properly sized and tuned four barrel because just like a 2 barrel carb it is a compromise between the ideal size for top end power and the ideal size for bottom end acceleration and fuel economy.
Dyno readings are one thing but how fast you get to peak power in a vehicle is a whole different ball game. I"m %100 percent sure if you ran these two fuel systems back to back in the same car the carb would kick the daylights out of the keg by simply reaching peak power faster.
@@BuzzLOLOL You just said "the 2 bbl. throttle body apparently can supply all the dry air that small base cam can use" and that is my exact point, it is too big to make low end torque like a four barrel. It's common knowledge in the performance world that a small CFM throttle body gives you better low end throttle response and a larger one gives you better top end power. The 2 barrel throttle body on the kegger suffers from the same airflow/peformance compromise problems every 2 barrel carb does. Yes the intake does have long runners to broaden the torque curve and help you tow heavy loads but it is not a performance setup by any stretch of the imagination. The two barrel throttle body has zero chance of competing with the air speed of a vacuum secondary four barrel. The primary half of a properly sized four barrel carb is about half the CFM of the 2 barrel but more CFM overall when the secondaries kick in. There is no compromise with a four barrel, you have both a small throttle body for crisp low end response and economy and a large throttle body that comes in when needed for the extra top end boost. This is the exact same principle as exhaust size, you put 3 inch exhaust on a street car and you lose low end because you lost all your velocity. Same thing goes for a throttle body that is too big and almost every EFI throttle body I have ever seen including the stock kegger two barrel is way bigger than the primary side of your average four barrel. Here, this article can explain it even better than me. www.badasscars.com/index.cfm?ptype=product&product_id=440#:~:text=I%20know%20to%20most%20of%20you%20this%20sounds,Most%202%20barrel%20carbs%20are%20around%20350%20cfm.
@@BuzzLOLOL It does apply. And aren't you the guy that told me a few years back that there was no way in hell my 72 Fury would shift out of 2nd gear at 80 MPH in drive with a 3.73 gear? You told me to look at the gear ratio calculator on andys auto sport and see what it would really do and when I came back and told you the calculator said I was right you deleted one of your replies and stopped responding.
@@Impactjunky restrictive exhaust never adds hp or torque unless your headers and collector lengths are not correct to begin with.
@@bcbloc02 I don't know much about tuning collector length but I do have a 400 HP Magnum 360 with Hooker long tubes and 2.5 inch pipes with Flowmasters runs significantly better than 3 inch pipes with no mufflers. Also If I am remembering correctly Engine Masters ran a test and saw noticeably more torque from a T shaped Y pipe than 2.5 inch dual exhaust with no H.
@@BuzzLOLOL Not trying to beat a dead horse but it definitely does apply, it should be pretty common knowledge that too much throttle body means a lazy low end whether the throttle body is on a carb or an EFI system. Don't believe me then do a quick search and see what kind of forum results you find.
Being that the 5.9 has been out of production for years, can you still get a new 5.9 crate from Mopar?
Good point. I’m pretty sure you can’t. All magnums are junkyard engines at this point! :)
Companies like ATK sell them pretty reasonably priced better deal than mopar ever was rated at 320 or something like that
Probably not from Mopar, but there are other aftermarket companies selling them.
The 5.9 was still in production in Mexico in 2008 for the box vans and trucks not imported to USA. I bought a ATK 410 stroker and the block has a date code of Mar 2008
@@davej3487 does it still hold up? I wanna look for a 360 for a 72 satellite, but most places like summit are out of stock
Dyno runs! That's what we like 👍
Didn't Mopar performance offer a 380hp magnum version back in the day?
they did offer a higher power version of the crate motor
@@richardholdener1727
Would be nice to test that
Great Video! I'm a New Subscriber. I Now Subscribe from 2 Different Profiles.
I was Wondering if you can Do a 360 Magnum Junkyard Engine Build with Holley Sniper EFI? Recommend Cam, Intake, Headers, & Holley SNIPER EFI Setup. I want to Keep it Fuel injected but Trying to Make Lots of STREETABLE Power for My 1976 B200 Tradesman Shorty Van called "Death Trap" (Videos on My Channel) to Replace the Stock 318 2brl.
Remember it's Going in a 70's Van so Header Choices Might be Limited. I Already Own a 360 Magnum that Runs like Brand New in a '95 Ram Van I Own that has Rotted Away Due to Wisconsin Winters.
Richard you need to learn how to screenshot record your computer and add audio. The rainbows make me nauseous....Keep up the good work 👍
i use screen capture on most of my vids
Finding a JY motor in good shape isn’t easy anymore.
I never had any luck with junkyard motors usually because they are JUNK!
Put a 850 carb on the crate motor and I bet you will break the 350hp mark, not much but I bet it would just make it!
If any thing ya can rebuild a junk yard motor and beef it up and still spend less money than ya can if ya compare
Keggers are easily modified for more top end by trimming the runners.
I got a ford 5.0ho for 375 bucks. Everything on it. Ended up buying a engine rebuild kit for 300 bucks. Boom I have a new engine basically 😃. New hypereutectic pistons, bearings all around. Lifters. Oil pump, valve seals blah blah blah. I'd rather build it than get a crate engine tbh. Unless I had money like that. It would be cool to get something built from factory.
But what do you put it in? Chrysler, other than the late models hasn't made a swap worthy car since the 70's
1981-1984 Dodge Rampage with a 8 3/4 rear on the OEM leaf's. Might need some welding skills.
Way more interesting than a ls
Zero miles. But the magnums age well so this will be interesting.
Just watched this and I'd just buy the 500$ and then buy crank, pistons , rods and heads and still come out cheaper than a create engine..
Wow, why the h3!! are you comparing the price of a junk engine with a
remanufactured engine.....
A more appropriate comparison, price for price, is to compare a MOPAR Crate
with what it would cost You to buy that junk yard Core and have it Remanufactured
Locally....
On the up side, thanks for showing that the MOPAR engine, well used,
is Still as good as New.....
But those sweet valve covers
Yes they are
FastJunk is the Way to Go.😁👍👍
Keep it MOPARORNOCAR/TRUCK'S
👍💪✅
Junkyard motors are exciting. You never know what you are going to get with one! You might get an awesome base for a build. You might get a time bomb that is waiting to puke its guts all over the road.
And that is exciting HOW?
@@davelowets It's as exciting as missing the joke.
@@isaace8090 cant see a joke if its not there...
You might gat a cracked block or a spun rod bearing or both (very exciting)
Geeze, I thought this was going to be about LS motors. Maybe next time 😂
1.7 rockers are good for maybe another 10hp.
A junkyard that will sell an engine for $500 and has sales?!!! Where is this magical wonderland?
Don't look now, but in TN, I bought a Gen V 454 complete at the local pull a part for $185 + $50 core charge for $235 total. That's their everyday price for ANY V8 engine.
For 5500... Id just get a 6.4 hemi.
I hope Michael Buffer doesn't come after you legally for saying "Lets get ready to rumble". I heard he's pretty antsy about people saying that. Lol
i said crumble!
@@richardholdener1727 LMAO
You can’t Buy the crate engine anymore…
G’s Rich! Trying to shame and embarrass MoPar?
Ya did a great job.
With zee yunk yard mtr yur always gambling big time with cracked heads ...... cool vids buildin mine 30 over hasting bearings and rings ... modded keg 4 hole injectors old stock eq heads .......snarf.........
#1 beeotches :)
Looks like Andy beat ya!! 😝
@@TheProchargedmopar we will have to see the camera on that photo finish then. lol cause it said 3 seconds when got alert and no views and when I commented and refreshed i didn't see but 1 view :)