Searching for the 'PERFECT SLEEPING PAD' - Kilos Gear 'BATTLES' Thermarest
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2024
- I continue to try and find the perfect sleeping pad as technology keeps making them more comfortable, warmer and lighter. My bubble was burst when my Big Agnes Rapide developed a leak making be go back to a Thermarest Xtherm NXT.. BUT I suffered the lack of comfort so when I got the opportunity to test the Kilos Gear Aerocloud Sleeping Pad Elite...... best wishes Tom
Hi Tom, I have the BA SL too, on your recommend, and I can see how this Kilos pad compares favourably on comfort. Great review as always.
Hey ray, thank you for your comment and sharing your thoughts... If my Big Agnes hadn't failed then I would definitely still have it... best wishes Tom
Thanks Tom. Nice to see a more reasonably priced pad. I like thin pads if they are comfortable as I find head height is always at a premium. In winter I defo want to exceed R6. So I think I’ll be sticking with my XTherm for winter, and my ‘even thinner’ but very comfy S2S Comfort Plus Insulated for three season activity. I’ve only recently bought the XTherm but I’ve never experienced pad failure with the Comfort Plus over four years. On the other hand I’ve had two S2S Ether Lite pads fail.
Hey Peter, I hope you are well and thank you for sharing your sleeping pad experience... Having an R value of over 6 definitely limits your choice but then thats easier in some ways... Tom
Just used the Kilos gear, camped on snow. You definitely need something like a CCF pad underneath, I could feel cold from below. Comfortable though.
Hey thank you for sharing your experience of the pad.... best wishes Tom
Hi Tom. Sleeping pad technology evolves so quickly that every year there is at least 2 new or improved models that are warmer, or lighter, or both. As you know I’ve been through a few pads in the last couple of years. BA rapide sl - most comfort but imo doesn’t sleep to close to claimed R value so it was sold. Last generation xtherm - very warm but not very comfortable so it was sold. I’ve now settled on 2. The thermarest uberlite. Amazing pack size and weight and I find it surprisingly comfortable. Durability is an issue but the hassle free life time warranty means I can live with that. And the nemo tensor extreme conditions. Very comfortable (not rapide levels mind) and very warm at 8.5 R value which is the highest of any pad. The cost of these pads is now ridiculous imo.
Hi Gary you are so right regarding sleeping pad tech moving forwards.. The Big brand ones are just so pricey and yet not reliable in my experience....The light ones such as the Thermarest Uberlite RW which is 300g then spoil you when you want a warmer more comfortable pad and you have to double the weight at over 600g.... As you know I am on the full circle and then round for a second lap with Thermarest, Nemo, Big Agnes, Thermarest and now Kilos gear.. When will I stop.... best wishes Tom
Hi Tom, I’m a big fan of your reviews and have found the information you provide incredibly helpful in the past.
I actually bought 3 of these mats for group trips based on your review and others, but particularly yours. I was surprised when I received the mats to see just how poor the construction is. Seams of uneven width, messy injection moulding at the valves, very poor quality bags. But above all I think the material used seems to be the same as you would have for a pool lilo/beach toy. I am certain that it will be highly susceptible to puncture and the overall quality doesn't suggest confidence in any way shape or form (and nor does the singular tiny repair patch!)
I have used NeoAir Xtherms for the past 10 years, I have 7 in all, and over time and the harsh use of groups they have had tiny repairable leaks. I also had one where the baffles joined up, that was replaced without question. So as you say no mat is perfect. But there is also no doubt that the neoair mats are in a completely different league when I comes to quality of construction and materials and I feel like not mentioning that here was an oversight.
Is the kilosgear mat more comfortable? Yes, a bit and particularly for sidesleepers (like me) on hard ground. But honestly I could never see myself trusting these on a multiday trip so I will be returning them.
I suspect that kilosgear is basically a drop shipping company selling very cheap mass-produced Chinese goods. One indication of this is that inside the pillow cover the inflatable component appears to be of superior materials to the mat, indicating to me a separate supplier. To be honest the more I think about this the more I wonder if they didn't just send you a different (and better) mat to he three I received!
Anyway do keep up the otherwise excellent reviews. You have created an excellent resource.
Hi Alex, sorry for the delay in my reply but I was actually on a camp when I picked up this comment.. Thank for the way in which you presented it.... I just haven't honestly had the same experience that you have.. I dont want to challenge you or just counter bit by bit what you have said. Mine and the other two Kilos Gear pads have great build quality... I will admit that the material feels plasticky but if this makes it easier to glue or bond and then work reliable long term then I am happy with that especially at this price point.. An XtHERM retails at £272 for the regular wide max the last time I looked and as you know they still suffer problems... I did not mention quality issues between the two mats because I didn't see any apart from the material feeling better on the XTherm and this may have or have not a functional difference...
I really hope you can get a satisfactory outcome and I am sorry for the time you will have spent sorting this out... I have actually forwarded your comment to Kilos gear for their attention so we will see how that pans out...
best wishes and than you again for you thought in this approach... Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 thanks for the reply Tom and again the very pleasant way you responded. Kilos Gear have already processed the refund apparently (I suppose I wont know for sure until I have the payment, but I have no reason to be suspicious) and so that at least is excellent. My suspicion is that these will be much more vulnerable than the XTherms, but obviously, I haven't tested them. I am surprised you don't see quality issues in the manufacture though. The valves on mine for example are very poorly made - the plastic hasn't conformed fully to its mould shape. The welds around the outer seam are also inconsistent.
Anyway there is no doubt this is a difficult market sector - we now want the earth! A thick, light, wide, comfortable, packable, warm affordable mattress with no long term issues with leaks and puncture resistant materials. Its no wonder, as you say, that all brands have problems!
Hi Alex, Kilos gear have got back to me with a detailed response and very quickly as usual.. I will now copy some of it here for your attention....This is from my contact at kilos Gear
'Regarding the issues that were pointed out, I’ll be taking this feedback to our production team immediately. To be honest, we rarely receive this kind of feedback, but that doesn’t mean we’ll dismiss it-we take it very seriously. It’s possible that we’ve overlooked something in this batch. It’s also possible that we haven’t established the best channels for customers to provide detailed feedback, or that after a refund, some customers simply don’t have the time to share their experience. Either way, we’ll get to the bottom of this.'
'If there are still concerns about the product’s performance, we’re more than happy to offer them a full refund. At the same time, we’d love for them to keep the products free of charge and continue testing them over the long term. Their feedback has been incredibly helpful, and we’d really appreciate any additional insights they may have after more extensive use.'
'if they, or anyone else from your audience, ever need assistance, feel free to direct them to our customer support team at hello@kilosgear.com. We’ll make sure they’re well taken care of and that any concerns are addressed smoothly.
I hope this helps and every best wish...
Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 that's a pretty stellar response to be fair to them, you can't really ask for more. I’ll have to put them to the test now and see how I get on.
@@alexnail Yes Kilos Gear have been really first class to work with with and always given very detailed reply s to any questions I have asked...I hope now you are feeling more positive about this one.. best wishes Tom
I’ve used an Exped downmat UL Winter all year long for the last 3.5years & loved it...& just recently switched to a lighter Nemo “all trails” for even more comfort (& durability) as a side sleeper. The Exped will now only come out to play when the mercury REALLY heads south.
Hey thank you for sharing your experience of different sleeping pads.. I just haven't tested or used any Expeds.. Best wishes with the Nemo.. Tom
Appreciate the reply sir...& I'll take the opportunity to say a big thank you...your channel is a staple in a very small circle that I watch as I know I can trust the information & opinions you give, to help guide my own judgement. Nobody else gives such attention to detail & testing.
Cool i agree big Agnes air pads hard to beat for comfort love my big Agnes insulated
Hey thank you Mark..Best wishes Tom
Sorry didn't mean to give you such a short reply Mark.. Big Agnes are hard to approach so wont be testing any, I dont think after over 60K views on my Rapide SL review...
@@TOMHEANEY100 they work with agent as they sent me stuff years back tent and air pad and sleeping bags
Great job as always bud
hey thank you Stuart... best wishes Tom
My first Rapide SL developed a leak from a weld after around 30 nights. 20+ with the replacement, hopefully it will last, it's a great pad.
Hey thank you for sharing your experience of the Big Agnes Rapide.. It's a great pad comfort wise so I really hope your new one continues to hold its air.. Best Wishes Tom
Another Big Agnes user based on your review. Boundary deluxe for me as the Rapide sl was sold out everywhere. I’d be more inclined to trust your reviews than anyone else 👍
Hey thank you for your comments and sharing your Big Agnes experience... I must check out the Boundary deluxe.... best wishes tom
Great review iv just found one on eBay for £60 😊
Nice one! That's a super price for a great pad... I just spent 6 nights in a row on the UL version.. Really comfortable.. best wishes with yours.. Tom
Hi Tom a double whammy lol I use thermarest I just got the xlite nxt to replace my uberlite as it just wasn't robust enough I had a baffle go on it the nxt feels a lot better and the extra depth is great what I like is the guarantee of thermarest like you say at some point they all fail so getting it repaired or replaced is great.
Hi Craig, thank you for the comment.... Yes my uberlite blew baffles too but this Xtherm feels pretty robust although both my camping friends have had issues with theirs.. Best wishes with the xlite Tom
I tried an big agness rapide to save a little weight. I went straight back to the big agness boundary deluxe which is mega comfy. Not light but comfort matters. The rapide is too smooth.
£220 here in the UK and 900 ish grams. Really nice and had a couple of comments here regarding the boundary but pricey and heavy.. But I suppose that's the price you pay for comfort and I am sure that's awesome.. Appreciate you sharing your experience.. best wishes Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 Mine was £180 which is still expensive. I have an arm held together with screws(badly done I might add) and fibromyalgia too, so the weight and cost go out the window compared with comfort. I can't sleep if I'm not comfortable. And yeah, I do struggle with my rucksack, it keeps me fit 😊
Very interesting Tom
I have the thermerest xlite love it but I suffer with lower back pain and I always have a bad back in the morning.
I’m mainly a back sleeper would this be good for me do you think ?
And my other question is would my thermerest chair work on that pad ?
Many thanks
Atb Graham
Yes these pads are very comfortable for all sleeping positions.. Regarding the Thermarest chair I honestly don't know but wouldn't try it as the pad is very thick.. best wishes Tom
Be interesting adding thoughts to the 'Flextail Zero insulated mat RO5' since they both RO5and Kilos have a similar design and price, though the RO5 is a bit warmer on paper.
Yes thats another mat to look out for... It may be warmer but I dont think that the longitudinal baffles will be as supportive... I appreciate the comment... best wishes Tom
Thank you for another brilliant review, what was the reason for getting rid of the big agnes?
Hi it's warmth wasn't great then it leaked so I kinda lost faith.. Hope that helps. Tom
This sleep pad is definitely the most comfortable I’ve slept on, for me personally was fine using it at around 5 deg C but when I used it at 1-2 deg C I could feel the cold coming though
Hey thank you for the comment and sharing your experience and thoughts.. Best wishes Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 I’m thinking of checking out the Big Agnes Rapide which I think you have as well? Would you say it’s better in colder temperatures?
Rik 😎
It would be interesting to know your height & weight.
The Kilos pad appeals to larger bodies as there is less chance of rolling off compared to 'cut down' pads.
As long as it will fit in the tent.
Hi I am 6ft 1 inch or 185 cm . Yes these pads are wide long and thick but still have a very competitive weight..
Thats a lot of Mat for a very good price.....i will definitely keep this one in mind but right now i am all good for mats. Its interesting what you said about having issues with mats because i have only ever had issues fairly recently with the newer Thermarest X therm NXT, Uber and Xlite NXT i had zero problems with my first original Xtherm and only sold it because i thought buying the newer one was a good idea but i ended up losing all my confidence in the quality of Thermarest . I had 2 of the NXT Xtherms which i sent back to the retailer because they wouldn't stay inflated and the other two i sent back to Thermarest which they changed with zero issues but then i sold them on eBay. You cannot fault the customer service/warranty with Thermarest but i am wondering if they are so expensive these days silly because they have a large amount of returns 🤔 that would make sense from a business angle . My first self inflatable Thermarest lasted 25 years or more but in those days weight wasn't a key factor and i think with moving forward in research and development trying to stay market leaders in a faster and lighter world some of that Old School bombproofness has fallen by the way. It will be good to find out if Kilos can provide that level of customer service but still maintain what seems to be a very low price point .....time will tell. Thanks for the video as always 👍
Hey. Olan I really appreciate you sharing your experience of Thermarest here.. Yes I think competition is really tough and technology changes the sleeping pad industry every year.. My old Thermarests gave no trouble either and as you say making them lighter has definitely affected the reliability.. I hope my Xtherm NXT here is ok as it's very new and only used a handful of times. BUT when I test the Kilos over next winter then if its ok and I think it will be, I will sell the NXT and keep the kilos as its definitely more comfortable.. I have changed my sleeping pads so much in the last couple of years as they all have BIG compromises.. When you look at the Uberlite regular at 250g that kind of ruins you in the weight department as these thicker warmer pads are 100g of being 3 times the weight... best wishes Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 You're welcome Tom back in the day when i was young and super fit i wouldn't give weight the slightest bit of attention but these days in my 60s every gram counts and i dont mind paying for it with reason , especially if the gear is Top Quality. My Uberlight blew 2 baffles on its first outing and i have heard loads of people say that about them. i would love it if a tent manufacturer built one in a bathtub that you could use the tent bag to pump it up with, that cant be beyond a designers mind or technical fabrics capabilities . That would add a bit of tent weight but then you would be saving in not having to carry a mat and if it had a higher bit then you wouldn't havre to carry a pillow and gone would be the sliding about. It wouldn't be to everyones fancy but at least i would be happy 🤣😂🤣
@@Olan... Yeah a few years ago (about 2) I was carrying 12kg for a single overnighter.. Pushing 60 myself and with a dodgy heart I too am gram counting. Now it's down to 7 to 8kg in winter and 5 to 6kg in summer. The Uberlite mats spoil you re the weight at 250g for the regular but mine too failed.. I still need a lighter sleeping pad though but cant really fine one that suits.. Best wishes Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 Sorry to hear that about your heart condition Tom but i hope you are managing it well, you certainly look fit and healthy. The older you get the more you appreciate your health and good quality healthy food which is an topic thats quite difficult to address when you have to consider weight and the lightest options are dehydrated meals unless you prepare your own so i do allow myself to eat processed packaged overpriced stuff when i am out on a mission and then make up for it when i am back home. Take care and ATB
@@Olan... Hey thank you for the reply.. Yes I make a big effort to try and stay off the Ultra Processed foods. Sometimes on a camp I will just use organic pasta and some pesto but others I will just use the best quality dehydrated I can find.. Then I also go for nuts as my treat.. best wishes Tom
What he’s not saying in this video is that Kilosgear is a company that caters to bigger dudes (aka fat). I have two of their products- their high back chair and their sleeping pad with the foot pump. I’m very happy with both. The extra inch on their pads do make a difference especially with my body “displacement” if you will. My butt isn’t on the ground when I wake up. And it’s not just that it’s for bigger dudes but their gear is light weight (not ultralight) which is a plus for me. I am willing to carry a little more weight for the comfort they provide. And believe you me- out in the woods I’m now comfortable!
Hi, thank you for sharing your experience of Kilos gear products. Its great to hear how comfortable you find the sleeping pad and also that it can suit larger users... Difficult for me to comment regarding the category of user that you mention but after using mine on a number of occasions and whether I sleep on my front, back or side I find this pad extremely comfortable and supportive... Once again thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences... best wishes Tom
That's interesting I just got mine today pumped it up and my butt hits the floor when fully inflated and I'm only 80kg, it also leaks badly and has half deflated on it's own in 2 hours since.
@@El-Jefe Hi, first of all I can understand how disappointed you may feel so sorry to hear of your experience... My butt touches the floor too when fully inflated and this is normal on a lot of pads. By Big Agnes pads did this too. A sleeping pad is optimised for sleeping comfort and if its so firm that your butt doesn't hit the floor when you sit on it then its on the firm side for comfortable sleeping... The Thermarest here does that and is good to to sit on but too firm then for sleeping.. I inflated my Kilos gear pad for over a week and slept on it for an hour every other afternoon. I have since done a number of camps with no leaks. So I hope this helps a bit and if you are not happy and the pad is leaking then I suggest that you contact Kilos Gear. I have had to contact many sleeping pad manufactures due to leaking pads and my camping partners have also had many problems.. Sleeping pads in my experience can give trouble from any brand... Best wishes Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 Hi Tom, Thanks for the reply to be honest I wouldn't mind my butt touching the ground if it could hold air. The comment from the big guy above just doesn't seem to be accurate based on what I'm seeing as an 80kg male (in the limited time my pad stays inflated). I appreciate your empathy, I admit I am disappointed as I was hoping to use it for my first attempt at the west highland way but I don't feel I can trust the product now even if they do replace it for one that stays inflated. Another that didn't sit well is that I noticed is that kilosgear presents themselves as a company based in New York, on their website contact details address etc so I was surprised when I got my tracking number yuntrack tracking number and realised it was coming China and had to wait 2 weeks for delivery of a product that was supposed to arrive in 5-7 days (according to the website). Also just a heads up regarding the pillow I got the exact same pillow they are selling for £31 for a total of £6 inc tax and shipping from aliexpress, minus the logos (I agree about the design of the pillow it's great and holds air too). I have made contact with kilosgear re the pad awaiting reply unfortunately if they do replace it I think I will always have the anxiety of wondering if it will go down one night in the highlands which as you can imagine given the unpredictable climate up there it could be an issue.
@@El-Jefe Okay thanks for sharing and I understand how you feel.. Like I mentioned I have heard of so many leaking pads from the big brands and it didn't put me off buying this Thermarest. But it's still a real pity about yours...I am sure you will get a good response from Kilos Gear. Best wishes Tom
How can you review gear that you haven’t used?
I have used all the gear I talk about in this video.. I might talk about other pads but I am not reviewing them.. Sorry you are disappointed.. Best wishes Tom
Thanks for the review Tom, just a heads up youtube says "includes paid promotion" at the beginning of the video. I'm not sure that's correct, if they only sent it for you to review? might be worth bringing it up with youtube (I trust your reviews so I ordered one) but if kilos gear have not paid you for this review, it might be worth having a word as it gives a false impression 👍
Hi this is what RUclips says...."If you accepted anything of value from a third party to make your video, you must let us know. We'll show viewers a message telling them that your video contains paid promotion". My take on this is that I need therefore to tick the paid promotion box... I accepted the pad which has value though Kilos gear did not send me any money or have any input... Awesome that you ordered the pad so I hope you are delighted with it and I really appreciate your consideration here... Tom
@@TOMHEANEY100 I think it's only if they are given it to you free to keep after, I think if they send it you just for review I don't think you have to declare it as such (I'm not 100% sure though) Either way, I think all of your viewers know you have a high level of integrity as do I, which is why I just placed the order without thinking twice, If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me 👍
Can still say the same boilerplate disclosure
@@El-Jefe Hi it was given to me for keepers.... Tom
A worthwhile watch Tom and definitely a pad worth a look. I liked the colour too! I am looking forward to the winter test. A 'Nana nap' had supposed to be good for you, so go Tom. I'll remember to send you a message in the afternoon to wake you when I am WORKING.
Don't be fooled: The Kilosgear claimed R-value of 5.0 is just that.... the company's claim. It has NOT been ASTM rated, and they wouldn't answer my emails when I asked about this. Their website went from claiming 5.0 loud and proud to.... hard to find. I find this very shady...
Thank you for your comment. Like I said I didn't test it regarding R Value . Even companies like Big Agnes are having issues with claimed r Value from the likes of Justin Outdoors and the rapide SL... but I do trust Devin from backcountry exposure who has tested this on snow. Also the r value can be improved as I said in the video from a very little weight penalty... best wishes Tom
They claim to be ASTM rated, but they're not clear on what the ASTM rating is and I'm with you - I doubt that it's the number they're claiming, but is in fact only about half that. Klymit does this also on their Insulated Static V pads. They tell you it has a 4.4 R value and right next to that they tell you it's ASTM rated, but they do *not* tell you up front that the ASTM rated value is only 1.9, less than half the R value they claim. They do acknowledge the ASTM value, but they bury it in the fine print. On their website they make it easier to find, but on Amazon where they get a lot more sales this is what they do.
It also leaks badly around the welds just got mine and it hasn't remained inflated for more than 2 hours sitting in my spare room.
Meanwhile it says r rated on the website. But I don't trust it either. The UL version is supposed to have 3.8 r value (≈ -10°C) but does not have insulation. I wonder how this should work? Competitors have UL sleeping pads with a thin layer of insulation and they only have a r value of 2. something
OK, good... but we have seen several pads that do not match their rated "R" values.
It really deserves testing in cold weather to meet your high standards for testing.
Hi Bill I will test it in cooler conditions but I have to wait to winter. Thank you for the comment and watching. best wishes Tom