We have a fleet of western stars with that same setup. We ended up having a machine shop make some of those shackles fit that threaded pin without using those bushings. It seemed to work for us.
I work at a freightliner/westernstar dealer, unfortunately it’s a super common issue we see on a daily, not much we’ve figured out for the pin side of things but any customer that comes in out of warranty. We swap out those OEM aluminum shackles for aftermarket steel we get from a local spring shop, seems to help a bit with longevity
Western Star is no longer A western star. Its just a cascadia with a big W on it. Freightliner/Daimler has destroyed the reputation of the once great name.
Have you tried using the shackles for the peterbilt small pin ends on just the one side of the western stars small ends ? Instead of just having someone else build them?, and on the fronts we do use the shoulder bolts on ours
My paystars all have drag links that hook to bottom of spring pack. I’ve had D6 dozers pull us moving houses in mud and nothing moves. That front suspension design would never hold up or be on anything I own for the severe duty off-road work I get into. My 4x4 my 6 x 6 and 5600i all that that suspension. That all looks like a accident waiting to happen. My trucks run 445/65/22.5 steers. The brackets are huge that hold the springs in place. That design is weak. Enjoy all your videos Justin and thank you for them. Been a subscriber for years. Whoever designed that front suspension doesn’t know trucks.
Idk whats your process of greasing them but alot of times it helps to get the weight off the spring then grease it then when done cap the grease fitting
Have they ever given you a reason why they manufacture those pins with different sized ends? I can't see an obvious reason looking at the parts there. It's not like it needs one smaller diameter end to fit through the hole. The bolts they supply, it looks pretty obvious the thread that is in contact with the pin will wear out quickly and leave it very loose.
Have you checked out the tiger tool puller so you can do the pin bushings without removing the spring? Hopefully you are able to fix the issue and it won’t matter. but that will save a lot of time over pulling the spring to replace the bushings.
Was gonna say the same thing. My local spring kings know exactly what to do to remedy this. The old style smooth pins and bushings and shackle bars will interchange. Might have to change the rear hangers too. Junkie, try running your VIN number off your old # truck 2 Star with the cat engine. Id bet that'll fix ya problems.
Justin, is there grease holes on that pin. Besides the one in the middle? From what I could see, is the only area the pins getting grease. Is the center where the threads are. The collars on the pin that set inside of the shackle, don't appear to have a grease hole. So no matter what, they aren't getting grease. Even if you're greasing regularly. They probably assume that they aren't supposed to move. So they didn't make the.ends with grease holes. But like you said, there's definitely play/movement on the small end. So grease would definitely help the situation. But if i was you. My first thing to try, would be, taking the shackles to a shop and have them cut a groove in the center of the hole, where the pin goes in. And having them drill and tap a hole for a grease zerk. Then keep adding grease to them regularly. Because I don't think grease is even getting to those points. Its definitely a piss poor design tho! I feel like this is the logical first step. If it doesn't at least make them last 5-10x as long. Id see about having a shackle made thats.a perfect fit to the pin on its small side. The reason why it's not the same size. Is because it wouldn't thread through the hole. But it doesn't explain why they kept the same size hole in the shackles on both sides. Thats the one thing I'm not understanding! Definitely a recall type of problem.
Do u take the weight off axle when u grease it so it fills it evenly? I know the kenworth set back axle trucks are hard on spring pin bushings. I found they last much longer when u take weight off front axle to grease the pins. Some trucks will take the grease fine, others will only take grease on one side when weight on them. Yeah i know u shouldn't have to. That western omelet set up is for like a OTR truck with a 12k axle in it lol
Any chance kenworth w900b pins and bushings would fit. They are a threaded design but are the same size on both ends. The kenworth threaded pin design proved to be very reliable when they were in use. I know you’ve tried everything but and if you mentioned it I must have missed it, but also try using a small bottle jack between the frame and spring to take the weight off the shackles while greasing
I buy a lot of stuff off of Brighton spring down in Fairfield and they get that aftermarket stuff and it's real good stuff I mean you know just throwing it out there
hey budddy good to see you back again. them bolts they are useing are know a sets as they are threaded all the way and will rub and bend like shit ans weaker than a normal bolt part threaded. i see there still no lathe in the shop yet i see alot of the racks of stuff are gone out the shop now so get ya self a lathe
I suggest installing sleeved rubber bushings and use bolts thru center Navistar has these and its rare to change them even at 120k miles That system seems dated
You should be working for westernstar designing shit for those clowns who are making way to much money to engineer garbage your trucks are all pretty new you shouldn't be dealing with nonsense justin thanks for posting
Justin Sturgill Trucking.. Nice to see you back at the videos. Why would they make something like that with that stupid bushing on the pin and then the bracket? That holds too much weight for a stupid design like that.
So they can keep selling there products too truckers like justin why do you think they only sell a special bolt that only they make so you have to get it off them
Because the shaft is threaded every time the suspension cycles its causing lateral trust on the components. How is that not going to cause premature wear?
You might try sholder bolts or stripper screws They are a tool and die item They have a clean shoulder below the head with the thread on the end Ordered by shoulder length and diameter (Check McMaster Carrr)Since you have the Bridgeport and a Lathe? you may have more luck on getting a machinist to come in on a weekend and make the bushing Its worth pursuing a company called Euclid from Ohio used to make suspension parts , King Pins and shackles They had a line of improved design It was very successful. Until it was bought by Meritor I believe to sort sink into corporate ooze Keep trying not only for your own Western Star but for all the units on the road
Castrol pyroplex blue is by far the best grease. I don't know what flea market you got that other stuff from. Never heard of that stuff, and I've been at it for over 30 years
have pete or old fld springs(eyes) made up at your supplier(spring shop) and replace them all, stop the drivers from driving down haul(off) roads at high speeds, i would do two trucks one with greasable and one with the rubber spring pins, see which one works best, on multi leaf springs you only need to do the eye leaf. get rid of the metric bolt and tap the hanger to standard bolts with shoulders.
As someone who works in a machine shop, your on the right track for a perm. fix. Make new shackles to get rid of those bushings. Everything should be tight. Only thing moving should be the threaded surface of the pin inside the threaded bushing. Make everything else tight as a frogs ass and problem solved
Could machine some hardened steel pins instead of bolts so it’s a machine fit than drill small holes and put keepers in the end. Can take up the slack from the lousy bolts
@@thecountryceo3535 it is a big problem that they tell you grease too because I don’t think that that’s the issue and once you fix it it just continues to happen
Be thankful it's not a 114SD, for this job, but really be thankful you're not having to do one of, or both of the steering gear boxes......that are inside of the frame.
Was an owner operator for quite a few years there's a reason why I only had paccar product since Freightliner took over Western Star star has been going downhill plain and simple
That bushing looks like an after thought, instead of redesigning the total assembly they just manufactured that bushing, like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound !!!
I would retap those holes to accept ase bolts too and use shoulder bolts to fix that now too also...those trucks suck duck too.thsts why I buy older western stars now too...
Damn you got rid of peterbilt for window switchs. Now you have suspension issues. It's not a very good trade😂😂😂 So try a whole different spring setup. Measure the spring and go back to a old school setup.
Either have new shackles machined smaller or have a spring shop change the bushing set up. Might try the shackle idea first on a few trucks and see if that fixes it. Lot cheaper then having a spring shop make new springs with a different style bushing. The Volvos have a similar set up and they fucking suck.
Justin, you have a legitimate complaint. That spring setup is completely over-engineered. This is simply the engineers not understanding real world use. My thought is the bushing you use to take up the gap is meant to be sacrificial. But if it’s not made of bronze it’s worthless. We use Premalube from certified labs for our grease and it’s far superior than any grease we have used in the past..I’ll never go back to any other grease after using their product. I’d be happy to send you a cartridge for your grease gun if you want to try it. Good luck with the dilemma..I like your idea of testing your own idea, sometimes you have no other option.
If seems like they screwed up and don’t want to admit it which is a big mistake! People will forgive a mistake if they own it but if they don’t they will lose credibility and customers!
That design doesn't even look strong enough for a 12,000lb steer axle, let alone 20,000 lbs. Plus a complicated pin and bushing like that has to be more expensive to design and produce, but maybe that was the point. Re-tap for sae or metric shouldered bolts (whichever you can get highest quality at best price.), adapt a normal smooth bushing, and get some smooth pins made that just press in. Have those shackles machined so both sides are matched (the larger diameter.) Drilled for grease of course.
that collar is absolute junk!!!! but also the grease nipples should be straight nipples, get rid of those 90 deg. they don't let in enough grease. yes Daimler is sticky about grease in the pins. if your truck is always busy you should be greasing more often. everyone here has valid points on all trucks, parts and suspensions that require greasing. they should be definitely be listening to the trucking companies, owner/operators, and spring shops about there issues on suspension pieces.
what dealer would be dumb enough to sell a regular customer version 1.1 of any major component that he needs to rely on. Unless that customer requested it. Meritor setup was probably $500 more but I"ll bet they passed it all on to you..... not. they look like they are trying to adapt something they had to make this setup. have you tried looking at the 23k setup that they advertise and see if there is anything better about it you can swap out? with Mack i dont even bother with the 20k stuff anymore. drop arm cinch bolts to u-bolts are better with 23. they're factory rep should be living in your shop but he is probably out fixing cascadia door seals for some 30 truck highway tractor guy. are you seeing any shock related issues? that would lean me to a higher than normal deflection rate because of a weak spring
@@Cyverion during Covid the prices got completely out of control. I did order some pack car products for the next season like you can’t pay $100,000 more for a dump truck then another one when they both make the same money it’s called business 101.
The whole point of buying new is to not have issues. Thanks Justin, because of this I’ll just go used and instead of payments, let it nickel and dime me instead of enriching fat cat corporations.
Sure is a bunch of BS! Could a guy go to a machine shop and make your own dog gone bushing assembly? Then what they say, not safe, no warranty ect,,Bull! That freaking bushing is a bunch of crap!
We have a fleet of western stars with that same setup. We ended up having a machine shop make some of those shackles fit that threaded pin without using those bushings. It seemed to work for us.
X2 for that, we did that on our fleet of logging trucks and haven’t had an issue since
I work at a freightliner/westernstar dealer, unfortunately it’s a super common issue we see on a daily, not much we’ve figured out for the pin side of things but any customer that comes in out of warranty. We swap out those OEM aluminum shackles for aftermarket steel we get from a local spring shop, seems to help a bit with longevity
the hot dog down a highway had me rolling 🤣 😂 classic sturgill glad to see him back
Thank you for posting Justin I appreciate you.
Yes! some shop videos! 🙌🏻🙏🏻
Western Star is no longer A western star. Its just a cascadia with a big W on it. Freightliner/Daimler has destroyed the reputation of the once great name.
First video I ever seen of yours, don’t even drive trucks but I like how you talk, subbed lol.
Powerhouse is back!
That looks like no engineering to me.
Good explanation of the problem, thanks and all the best.
Justin had a cluster F of a design. I see all kinds of things that can go wrong with that picture.👍👍👍
This is why you see some of these tack welded onto the spring. Seen it many times!
Have you tried using the shackles for the peterbilt small pin ends on just the one side of the western stars small ends ? Instead of just having someone else build them?, and on the fronts we do use the shoulder bolts on ours
My paystars all have drag links that hook to bottom of spring pack. I’ve had D6 dozers pull us moving houses in mud and nothing moves. That front suspension design would never hold up or be on anything I own for the severe duty off-road work I get into. My 4x4 my 6 x 6 and 5600i all that that suspension. That all looks like a accident waiting to happen. My trucks run 445/65/22.5 steers. The brackets are huge that hold the springs in place. That design is weak. Enjoy all your videos Justin and thank you for them. Been a subscriber for years. Whoever designed that front suspension doesn’t know trucks.
9:36-9:46 i fucking died🤣🤣🤣. Words of a wise man. Mint, "you know what i am saying"
Idk whats your process of greasing them but alot of times it helps to get the weight off the spring then grease it then when done cap the grease fitting
Have they ever given you a reason why they manufacture those pins with different sized ends? I can't see an obvious reason looking at the parts there. It's not like it needs one smaller diameter end to fit through the hole.
The bolts they supply, it looks pretty obvious the thread that is in contact with the pin will wear out quickly and leave it very loose.
I've got Kenworth dump trucks and I've had you weld them tack weld them in there to keep them from sliding back and forth
I feel your pain brother
What is the symptom when they go bad? Clunking? Shaking? Tire wear?
I would have my own pins made now to exact specs of the peterbilt ones to also..and have thrm drilled all the way to accept grease too now
Have you checked out the tiger tool puller so you can do the pin bushings without removing the spring? Hopefully you are able to fix the issue and it won’t matter. but that will save a lot of time over pulling the spring to replace the bushings.
Talk to a spring co. they might have a fix on the shelf. They can and will custom make anything you want Hot Dog. ;)
Was gonna say the same thing. My local spring kings know exactly what to do to remedy this. The old style smooth pins and bushings and shackle bars will interchange. Might have to change the rear hangers too. Junkie, try running your VIN number off your old # truck 2 Star with the cat engine. Id bet that'll fix ya problems.
Does the new Hendrickson Steer Tex have something like that
Justin, is there grease holes on that pin. Besides the one in the middle?
From what I could see, is the only area the pins getting grease.
Is the center where the threads are.
The collars on the pin that set inside of the shackle, don't appear to have a grease hole.
So no matter what, they aren't getting grease. Even if you're greasing regularly.
They probably assume that they aren't supposed to move. So they didn't make the.ends with grease holes.
But like you said, there's definitely play/movement on the small end.
So grease would definitely help the situation.
But if i was you. My first thing to try, would be, taking the shackles to a shop and have them cut a groove in the center of the hole, where the pin goes in.
And having them drill and tap a hole for a grease zerk.
Then keep adding grease to them regularly.
Because I don't think grease is even getting to those points.
Its definitely a piss poor design tho!
I feel like this is the logical first step. If it doesn't at least make them last 5-10x as long.
Id see about having a shackle made thats.a perfect fit to the pin on its small side.
The reason why it's not the same size. Is because it wouldn't thread through the hole.
But it doesn't explain why they kept the same size hole in the shackles on both sides.
Thats the one thing I'm not understanding! Definitely a recall type of problem.
If you spec heavier axles do you have to pay more in tags for the truck?
Not "here" because the truck is still registered for the same gross weight.
Maybe see if you can get a spring shop to build a set of springs but with a bigger spring eye to accept the Peterbilt style pin and bushing
Can you put peterbilt springs under the western star at the front.
Can you have springs made to use the Peter built bushing?
Do u take the weight off axle when u grease it so it fills it evenly? I know the kenworth set back axle trucks are hard on spring pin bushings. I found they last much longer when u take weight off front axle to grease the pins. Some trucks will take the grease fine, others will only take grease on one side when weight on them. Yeah i know u shouldn't have to. That western omelet set up is for like a OTR truck with a 12k axle in it lol
Horton used to make some real good spring pin bushings and everything and they had like roller bearings in them you might check into them
Any chance kenworth w900b pins and bushings would fit. They are a threaded design but are the same size on both ends. The kenworth threaded pin design proved to be very reliable when they were in use. I know you’ve tried everything but and if you mentioned it I must have missed it, but also try using a small bottle jack between the frame and spring to take the weight off the shackles while greasing
That reminds me of the adapter on furniture in a box
Can you get springs made and use the Peter built bushing set? Or is the front same crap?
The bolts need to have a shank to stop the wear not threaded all the way through
Damn bruh where you been!
His back 👍👍
Rule of thumb is you want as few moving parts as possible. This is the reason why people don’t buy vehicles with turbo’s.
Justin I don’t understand why they can’t make both ends of the pin the same size and eliminate the bushing.
go at spring place and try order new springs using Peter bushings
I buy a lot of stuff off of Brighton spring down in Fairfield and they get that aftermarket stuff and it's real good stuff I mean you know just throwing it out there
RJ's a good guy
hey budddy good to see you back again. them bolts they are useing are know a sets as they are threaded all the way and will rub and bend like shit ans weaker than a normal bolt part threaded. i see there still no lathe in the shop yet i see alot of the racks of stuff are gone out the shop now so get ya self a lathe
I suggest installing sleeved rubber bushings and use bolts thru center
Navistar has these and its rare to change them even at 120k miles
That system seems dated
YER BACK!!!!!! JUNNNNNNKKKKKIIIEEEEE IN THE HOUSE!!!! miss ya brown paper baggie to big fleeting banana hammock ! LOL
You should be working for westernstar designing shit for those clowns who are making way to much money to engineer garbage your trucks are all pretty new you shouldn't be dealing with nonsense justin thanks for posting
Can you please do more tool content and tool box’s tours
Justin Sturgill Trucking.. Nice to see you back at the videos. Why would they make something like that with that stupid bushing on the pin and then the bracket? That holds too much weight for a stupid design like that.
So they can keep selling there products too truckers like justin why do you think they only sell a special bolt that only they make so you have to get it off them
Love it! Trying to redesign it to be a Peterbilt!!! 🤦🏻♂️
The bolts you are looking for are available at Belmetric.
I’m surprised Atro doesn’t have a fix for this. They make some of the best bushings and suspension components I have used.
I just spent 7k at Fargo freightliner to replace 3 of these pins and one hammered out hanger. 2024 western star 49x with 62,000 miles on it
Because the shaft is threaded every time the suspension cycles its causing lateral trust on the components. How is that not going to cause premature wear?
You might try sholder bolts or stripper screws They are a tool and die item They have a clean shoulder below the head with the thread on the end Ordered by shoulder length and diameter (Check McMaster Carrr)Since you have the Bridgeport and a Lathe? you may have more luck on getting a machinist to come in on a weekend and make the bushing Its worth pursuing a company called Euclid from Ohio used to make suspension parts , King Pins and shackles They had a line of improved design It was very successful. Until it was bought by Meritor I believe to sort sink into corporate ooze Keep trying not only for your own Western Star but for all the units on the road
Hmmm... Fit the Peterbilt pins on them...
Can’t you just get a spring shop make you springs with the right eye diameter to fit the Freightliner pin?
Castrol pyroplex blue is by far the best grease. I don't know what flea market you got that other stuff from. Never heard of that stuff, and I've been at it for over 30 years
Sounds like DJ at Rocket should make you some parts!
have pete or old fld springs(eyes) made up at your supplier(spring shop) and replace them all, stop the drivers from driving down haul(off) roads at high speeds, i would do two trucks one with greasable and one with the rubber spring pins, see which one works best, on multi leaf springs you only need to do the eye leaf. get rid of the metric bolt and tap the hanger to standard bolts with shoulders.
Honestly try Texas Refinery Corp Paragon 3000 grease, best on the market 🇺🇸
I assume Western Star wont cover this issue under warranty?
As someone who works in a machine shop, your on the right track for a perm. fix. Make new shackles to get rid of those bushings. Everything should be tight. Only thing moving should be the threaded surface of the pin inside the threaded bushing. Make everything else tight as a frogs ass and problem solved
Holy shit a JST video
Could machine some hardened steel pins instead of bolts so it’s a machine fit than drill small holes and put keepers in the end. Can take up the slack from the lousy bolts
For bolts you should try a company called CHOICE.
So I have 122sd my front spring hangers re not like that in fact the don’t even have grease zeros.
Had the same problem with 2 of mine recently
@@thecountryceo3535 it is a big problem that they tell you grease too because I don’t think that that’s the issue and once you fix it it just continues to happen
@@JUSTINSTURGILLTRUCKING i got to keep an eye on it then. it just happen to me on 2 of the 49x for the first time 3 weeks ago
What kind of Racing you doing these days? Top Fuel, Quads?
Our truckers don’t wrench anymore…. Like how you get shit done Justin 💪
Be thankful it's not a 114SD, for this job, but really be thankful you're not having to do one of, or both of the steering gear boxes......that are inside of the frame.
Was an owner operator for quite a few years there's a reason why I only had paccar product since Freightliner took over Western Star star has been going downhill plain and simple
Paccar is junk too 😂😂
Great learning video...maybe time to go back to Pete??
That bushing looks like an after thought, instead of redesigning the total assembly they just manufactured that bushing, like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound !!!
So you're saying you have a system where you get on the bottom and the other guy gets on the side?
I would retap those holes to accept ase bolts too and use shoulder bolts to fix that now too also...those trucks suck duck too.thsts why I buy older western stars now too...
Sucks that you should have to resort to such measures but a machine shop should easily be able to make what you are looking for !
Damn you got rid of peterbilt for window switchs. Now you have suspension issues. It's not a very good trade😂😂😂
So try a whole different spring setup. Measure the spring and go back to a old school setup.
I must have looked good on paper, for the engineer that designed it.
Either have new shackles machined smaller or have a spring shop change the bushing set up. Might try the shackle idea first on a few trucks and see if that fixes it. Lot cheaper then having a spring shop make new springs with a different style bushing. The Volvos have a similar set up and they fucking suck.
Talk with someone from your local spring shop.
Justin, you have a legitimate complaint. That spring setup is completely over-engineered. This is simply the engineers not understanding real world use. My thought is the bushing you use to take up the gap is meant to be sacrificial. But if it’s not made of bronze it’s worthless. We use Premalube from certified labs for our grease and it’s far superior than any grease we have used in the past..I’ll never go back to any other grease after using their product. I’d be happy to send you a cartridge for your grease gun if you want to try it. Good luck with the dilemma..I like your idea of testing your own idea, sometimes you have no other option.
or drill the springs anb put Peter bushings
If seems like they screwed up and don’t want to admit it which is a big mistake! People will forgive a mistake if they own it but if they don’t they will lose credibility and customers!
That design doesn't even look strong enough for a 12,000lb steer axle, let alone 20,000 lbs. Plus a complicated pin and bushing like that has to be more expensive to design and produce, but maybe that was the point. Re-tap for sae or metric shouldered bolts (whichever you can get highest quality at best price.), adapt a normal smooth bushing, and get some smooth pins made that just press in. Have those shackles machined so both sides are matched (the larger diameter.) Drilled for grease of course.
Really a raw deal to have a truck down because of a bad design
that collar is absolute junk!!!! but also the grease nipples should be straight nipples, get rid of those 90 deg. they don't let in enough grease. yes Daimler is sticky about grease in the pins. if your truck is always busy you should be greasing more often. everyone here has valid points on all trucks, parts and suspensions that require greasing. they should be definitely be listening to the trucking companies, owner/operators, and spring shops about there issues on suspension pieces.
Why not go with Autocar???
Yo , go straight to the top , Daimler Truck North America LLC ...
Your right should be machine to fit not use a bushings
what dealer would be dumb enough to sell a regular customer version 1.1 of any major component that he needs to rely on. Unless that customer requested it. Meritor setup was probably $500 more but I"ll bet they passed it all on to you..... not. they look like they are trying to adapt something they had to make this setup. have you tried looking at the 23k setup that they advertise and see if there is anything better about it you can swap out? with Mack i dont even bother with the 20k stuff anymore. drop arm cinch bolts to u-bolts are better with 23. they're factory rep should be living in your shop but he is probably out fixing cascadia door seals for some 30 truck highway tractor guy. are you seeing any shock related issues? that would lean me to a higher than normal deflection rate because of a weak spring
Shoulda bought Mack...instead junky freightliners
Yeah....hot dog down the highway......this is a funny mf , Gentry ain't got shit on him .
I'm 62
Why did you make the change to Western star and not just stick with Pete? Seems like you had less issues with them...if you didn't it wasn't apparent
@@Cyverion during Covid the prices got completely out of control. I did order some pack car products for the next season like you can’t pay $100,000 more for a dump truck then another one when they both make the same money it’s called business 101.
@JUSTINSTURGILLTRUCKING Makes sense. Hopefully you can figure something out with this issue. Good luck man!
The whole point of buying new is to not have issues.
Thanks Justin, because of this I’ll just go used and instead of payments, let it nickel and dime me instead of enriching fat cat corporations.
Just buy Paccar they cost a little more for a reason
Have to put 40 condoms on it to take up the slop. Got to lube it before you screw it in.
That setup is worse than a "Hotdog down the Hershey Highway"
should have stayed with peterbilt/paccar etc trucks!
I Think Some Effing Librard designed this set up!
That's Mickey mouse engineering. You would half to grease that shit every hour.
Well I'm definitely not buying there shit 👁️👀
Sure is a bunch of BS! Could a guy go to a machine shop and make your own dog gone bushing assembly? Then what they say, not safe, no warranty ect,,Bull! That freaking bushing is a bunch of crap!