Are vintage speakers best with vintage amp
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- here I take a look at vintage speakers with vintage or modern amplifiers
equipment on show is
pioneer sx550
Sansui Au 101
nad 3020
leak stereo 70
Celestion Ditton 15 speakers
I've had a lot of new speakers with vintage amps and it's surprising just how many new speakers come alive. But I agree, I prefer a big box speaker.
Low parts count as in the Sansui means the audio has less components which may degrade the signal to go through.
Totally agree with that
🙋♂️THANKS KELVIN FOR HELPING THE COMMUNITY 🧐💚💚💚
It's always nice to hear interesting things from you Kevin...😀😀
Or... I love my 661 with my Monitor Audio Silver 300's. 91 db , more than enough power, and sweet sound.
Love your videos too! Thanks from Ontario. :)
I had a huge Hitachi music centre with Celestion Ditton 15xr speakers in the late 70’s, bought from Laskys, the Hitachi had the most incredible direct drive turntable. My mates used to come round with their Rush and Van Halen albums. Great days.
Can you remember what the system name was? My dad had an Hitachi system in 1980 and I remember it as a kid, sounded nice.
Thank you very much. Greetings from Bonn.
In the 60s, Magnavox consoles could shake the neighborhood on five watts of power due to the high sensitivity thru large drivers and gain from the amp
My Sunday just got a whole lot better - Kelvin is here! More hi-fi magic from the maestro!
Hi Kelvin, looking inside that Sansui was a shock but as you mentioned the power supply is probably very good ...On that subject I was told that Yamaha never use poor transformers in there Amps..I have three and they all sound pretty fine to my old ears....Thnxs for the insite as Usual Kelvin.
A good name for a band vinyl wrap, somebody should use it😂
well the difference is it's not 30 Watts old 30 watts new, they measured it differently years ago they would measure by RMS so 10 RMS watts is equivalent to 100 din or Peak power used today! plus there is programmable Watts what's in between the two.
Don't show what you want to know about the stereo 70 well for what most blue capacitors have to go Phillips and their Troublesome the old they all need replacing will help the sound of the amplifier oh so you might get calvinic corrosion you need to clean out the board sockets and pins take them out use those little brushes for cleaning your teeth get the big size and contact cleaner.
I wouldn't say the 101 is empty the preamplifier is on the knob section where the leak is in the center more. the power on the 101 is just in the middle. I see somebody's changed one of the channel one of the power transistors but not the other side and not even put any heat compounds on the other side left, how those transistors match up I don't know I would rather they done all the four, you want to use a high current transistor 6 amps you can go on,transistor. C,o,m. And find a modern equivalent. Check out with Michael Yates he might be able to help you he lives near you he's got a RUclips channel sort out your bias you might do the leak give him some content for his channel.
If you can get your hands on a pair of Zu's, do it. They sound fantastic with the vintage gear.
I have a pair of very old 15s from ATC pilot. super heavy cast iron chasey 250w max 8ohm.. I have them screwed to a piece of ply 25mm thick. open baffle
I have a pair of very old 15s from ATC pilot. super heavy cast iron chasey 250w max 8ohm.. I have them screwed to a piece of ply 25mm thick. open baffle
Short signal paths with a few good parts always sounds the best, so don't be mystified by the magic of the Sansui. There's also a similar reason that smaller amps in many cases sounds better than their bigger siblings, which are often packed, have longer signal paths, or the parts are driven harder to get more watts out of them.
Modern amps often have IC's and SMD's in the signal path, and let's be honest; They sound like crap (if you measure you'll see that they are way more noisy). The general buildquality of modern hifi can't match the 70's stuff, and you clearly hear it. Nowadays there's no pride in making good stuff - Pride is only based on how much you can scrape from the customers by telling them some stupid story about your junk. What jacks up the prices besides greed is the expense to pay off reviewers and magazines for talking shit. The money is surely not put in to the products.
New and improved often means the opposite these days and the soul and magic is gone. This also goes for the alleged music played on the crap so I guess it's befitting.
Another difference between vintage amps vs. modern is claimed to be the lead in solderings and parts. I can't prove it, but I have heard it from many sources, and we do know that different materials has an influence on sound. It's also claimed that it is the reason they can't make new clones of vintage synthesizers sound the same. Word of advice: Only change parts if needed.
Great video Mate.
All the best from Denmark.
Thanks, that was really interesting and makes a lot of sense. I agree with you about the modern music. I only own 70s or 80s gear so I can't compare or comment on modern equipment. I had one D class amplifier that had good reviews on RUclips and I sold it on after 2 months.
yes in agreement
and yes then new mark 2 is often inferior
Ever tried any of the vintage Sansui speakers? Sp1500s etc?
Unfortunately, Sansui woofers suffer from surround stiffening, They had impregnated cloth. Foam surrounds (like jBL) would disintegrate. The Sansui surrounds will look great but they are hardened out, raising the resonance frequency of the woofers and resulting in a poor base response. It is not easy to fix that issue, surrounds are unavailable and I know of no trick to make the stiff surrounds soft again.
@@hugobloemers4425 interesting. I have an old pair of sp1500s - the woofers still move very freely. I don’t use them very often - I can never decide if I like them or not - the mid range sounds nice but the bottom end is a bit one note like. They’re very sensitive though as a speaker - don’t need much to drive them at all. They sound better with the carved wooden grill removed that’s for sure.
I had 3 of those amps but the leak was a 30 and not a 70 the layout was the same easily removable preamp and power amp modules. which I had to replace the driver transistors with TIP 41s. The Sansui sounded sweet and did have the valve sound. After the NAD 2030, I upgraded (tongue in cheek) to a Quad 22 202 valve setup with an FM tuner I modified it with a Maplin stereo demodulator and made mods to the power amps. Speakers were Ditton 15s AR 18s and JBL the orange things. Jumping ahead 50 years I have a single-ended EL 34 Chinese Duak A9 kit built. The speakers were built in 1995 with homemade Quarter Wavelength single full-range 61/2 inch drivers, I seriously modified them to give me around a sensitivity of 95db 30 Hz flat to 16Khz and gentle roll-off to 18Khz. The cabinet design is a 14-foot baffle structure with a potential of 20Hz. The biggest gripe I have with speakers is the spider suspensions and speakers with a dome dust cover are a compression device by default and inhibit the cone from accurately following the signal, both removed. To flatten the curve I introduced an inducer coil for the low end and a filter cap for the top end. Another moan is directly screwing the speakers into a wooden cabinet, which is totally wrong. A separate heavy concrete baffle with speaker mounts acoustically isolated to a stiff marine ply construction internally lined with bitumen 3 feet tall 1 foot deep and 9 inches wide sounds wonderful. I use 2 different preamps, one analogue and one with a built-in DAC for streaming, both valves. The speakers are an easy load for any amplifier at 4 Ohms.
Kelvin, I love watching your vintage audio videos as I am vintage too. I have vintage ADS which are an American cousin to Braun from Germany. They sound fantastic with my vintage McIntosh separates. 92 db sensitive, Dual 7” woofer with “sticky” dome mid and tweeter. I paired them with my modern Rogue integrated, they did not sound quite as good.
Grundig box, These are wonderful cousins to ads and braun speakers, worth a listen at the right price.
Minimalist design with ample resources / high quality parts equals high end given the underlying "circuit" is sound.
Cheers K
Lot of good sense in this review. I couldn’t afford the Ditton 15’s in the 70’s, but had a pair of Hadleighs which sounded very sweet👍🎶. Ok the Sansui has had one channel’s output transistors changed but love the simplicity, the loudness switch (very 70’s 😎🎶) and the well manufactured power transformer. The Leak may be complex, but has a lovely internal wiring job and appears to have a decent power supply and output stage as you would expect. The NAD appears to be well thought out and the layout is very neat and tidy. Good to see no SMT in the NAD, as for me this renders any kit unserviceable, I don’t have the tools, time or even the interest to replace SMD’s. I recently repaired an old Sharp 8 track player and put it through a Heathkit AA1214, to my ears the performance is engaging and produces fab stereo separation which suits me fine. I always wanted in my late teens an Armstrong 40W per channel amp fitted with a toroidal transformer to cut down hum, again it was well outside of my budget 😎👍❤️.
Remember in the early 70s, air suspension was rare. Remember the woofers with a stiff surround - that never deteriorated? they werent ported and were just kinda boomy. Remember passive radiators instead of porting? Sounded ok. then came foam or rubber suspension, and porting. Suddemly he air MOVED and you could feel it at the port! Bad side - almost all of there rubber surrounds rot after 5 years or so, needing a re cone.
I have to agree about that secret sauce being that Sansui made their own transformers. Thanks for sharing Kelvin. Enjoy :)
Good Day Kelvin, my experience is ,that older vintage speakers do match quiet well well with vintage gear which is a bit younger as the speakers
I’ve a Nad 3130 and a big pair of wharfedale speakers with a 12” main bass driver, it’s got everything loud bass treble musical great with my LP12
Hi Kevin . One of my fav amps is Kenwood ka 4002 with 18Wpc which was fully recap and its sounds wonderful. I've tried it with my Monitor audio gold gs60 200W speakers and you can still listen that tube like sound till about 75Db ... I love this amp for sure !
I love to use my vintage amps with Klipcsh Heritage speakers. You get new high efficiency speakers with big paper drivers. It’s a great combo. After all the Heritage speakers are ‘new’ vintage. I would love to see you give them a try. I bet you’ll like them. 😊. I really enjoy your channel mate! There’s a lot of us vintage guys out here! Keep the videos coming.
I use a newer KEF and Mission with my vintage Marantz. Speakers and moving parts and can be less efficient.
That put a smile on my face. A mini review/mention of the Wharfdale Glendale slipped in there, slick!
Also, this is a Particularly informative and interesting episode.
has anyone compared the Sansui AU-101 integrated amp with the Sansui 1000x receiver?
I have some vintage Sansui es-200 speakers. 1974. Sound great
I sometimes feel that music sounds best on the equipment that was current when it was recorded. Not a hard and fast rule but often the case.
I agree all the very Kelvin
????????
Hi Kelvin, I hope your viewers realize there's danger in vintage. First, both speakers & electronics use aluminum electrolytic capacitors that have a life of typically 2000 hours or 20 years. Failure is indicated by bulging ends or leaking electrolyte or change in value (unseen). Recapping speakers is usually inexpensive & easy for an amateur to do. Recapping electronics is expensive because of the quantity of caps & beyond an amateur. Second, potentiometers often get 'noisey' with age due to dust ingress or use. Cleaning potentiometers with switch cleaner only provides temporary relief. Potentiometer replacement is possible & inexpensive but requires good soldering skills. HTH.
Haydn Boardman serviced my Sony 1975 Receiver and left all the original caps
Did you ask Haden Boardman if they tested all electrolytics for capacitance value & leakage current?
I would be interested to recap one of the two Sansui 441 S I have to do comparison any suggestions who could do it?
All part of the fun changing components and checking values, I think it goes hand in hand with vintage electronics.
Thanks Kelvin. You put me on to the NAD 3020 and I picked up one on Facebook marketplace for £50 a few months ago. I compared it with my Arcam Alpha 8 and it has replaced that in the system. The sound is not totally dissimilar but the NAD is sweeter and somehow more complete, and that’s powering 1990s floorstanding AE109s
yes such a cohesive sound the NAD so enjoyable
THANKS FOR showing The inside. THE Older stuff Like That Has. BJT Transistors. Everything after 1979 Went to mosfets which are metal so they sound like metal where BJTS Are Silicon. So they sound that way. Also vintage light brown flat caps are warm the green and white flat caps are cold. I ONLY LOVE THE Sound Of The old Silicon BJTS Bi Polar Juction And The Brown Flat Ceramic Caps That's The combo you want.
Thanks for the info
You are simply an amazing man & have educated so many thankful folk in finding the wonderfully enriching experience of vintage sound ....the sound from these lovely vintage systems are delicate and heart felt by the listener
and are ultimately about the love of music ...... Music reproduction is not about brutal power & extreme definition ....... but empathy with the piece,,,,,,I have the 101 and the AU 999 with the new Dentons........ loving every delicate moment
Thank you so much Kelvin for educating me ..... take care ........ Alan G
thank you great to hear . K
I have a Pioneer SX-5590 I borrowed several speakers to try new and vintage a shocking good match is a pair of TeKton Lore speakers ,.oh my goodness absolutely thrilling, the clarity, the resolution with deep well defined bass that will grab your attention,,..
sounds good from here
My experience is vintage speakers will sound best with vintage amps. For example, I got much better bass from my vintage jbl 96s with a Marantz 2245 then I did with a modern high end integrated with double the watts. The difference is in the flexibility vintage amps offer with their loudness buttons and tone controls which are necessary for good sound since recordings vary.
good point
Thanks for another good video Calvin
Having perfected the valve radios in the ealy 50s mainly using matched discreet components they applied similar pre amps to the transistorised new technology which is probably key to the great amps of the 60s and 70s sounding the way they do.I have fond memories of my Granfathers Grundig solid state stereo radiogram from 1968 which sounded fantastic for the sum of it's parts an does to the present day,
yes I once had a Grundig radiogram mane of thin plywood it was exciting sound
I have a bunch of old speakers, and their like me! Old and worn tf out! Fortunately, they can be brought back to spec, unlike me!
lets do some Brazilian jujitsu 😃
Great information once again 🎉.
Re: Power rating back in the day; I remember watching a video on here, some years back, of a chap restoring a sad looking old Sony 55wpc integrated amp (TA-3650 ???). Under final test it was putting out 80w, sustained, with an 8 Ohm load. I'd say that more than lends credence to what you were saying about power ratings being a bit more conservative back then.
There were a few power hungry speakers though, Gale 401s needed quite a lot of oomph to make then sing happily. They could drop to 2 Ohms at times, which made some of the contemporary amps roll over and die! Having said that, they used two smaller base drivers rather than one larger one making four drivers in each, probably explaining their lack of efficiency to some extent.
I think classic speakers with a modern amp is a better arrangement than the reverse although I still reckon classic/classic is the best as they were both, after all, designed to satisfy the audio preferences at that time. Another thought provoking vid btw.
yes th gales also were mounted horizontally which visually popular but I thing sounds good
@@stereoreviewx Indeed they were, I tried some vertically but having the mid/high mounted centrally made for a tall and visually clumsy arrangement.
I have , in my possession, that very Sansui and NAD.
The Sansui makes a crackle on one channel, so I started to replace the electrolytics because they are so old. Every single one measured pretty much the right capacity, which is testimony to the parts quality. Never did track down the cause of the crackle, probably a dodgy transistor.
The NAD is still in use as a power amp.
Could be a pot needs cleaning? If not that then a switch or a transistor.
@oilyrag525, it's not a switch. I need to get back to it with a 'scope, once I have the opportunity and enthusiasm.
Good to be first...
Nice video again.
What are the advantages of being first?
you know charles, there are, as yet, undiscovered tribes in the Amazon rainforest who knew you were going to say that.
😅