I work in remote locations all across the state of Alaska - my bear defense preferences are; 12 gauge loaded with slugs for brush and in a camp, and the .45-70 loaded with hardcast +P rounds when I'm on open tundra or terrain with good visibility. I almost prefer the .45-70 because it's also an awesome moose round. Full disclosure though: I haven't had to kill any bear in self-defense yet, I've been both exceptionally lucky and very careful.
Some tell stories about charging big bears to show their bravery. The wise know that usually happens with defecating in your pants at the same time. The truly wise would prefer not to have an experience.
@@paulreid7129 I certainly wouldn’t use it - penetration is the name of the game, I like a jacketed sabot slug myself. I’ve only seen a grizzly turn from a charge once, and that was because of a dog I had with me; meanwhile I was fighting with the 7.5” barrel on my Ruger Super Redhawk. Never count on a bear being spooked or turned by anything other than a kill shot.
I'd go with the 12 gauge. It did more damage and transfered more energy. A 3 inch 1.5 Oz slug is a big, heavy powerful round. I'd feel pretty comfortable in Bear territory with a Shotgun loaded with Breneke Black Magic Magnum slugs.
Yes, I was surprised the revolver penetrated so much farther. My guess before watching was that the rifle would prevail, but not by much. Now I want an in-depth presentation from Paul Harrell.
I was wondering if the shotgun and rifle projectiles were moving too fast for their own good for this test. Just too much velocity at point-blank for the projectile construction.
To even up the comparison a long barrel for the 500S&Wmag would be interesting. Maybe the Big Horn Armory Model 89 lever gun? Other than the one you have with you, I'm still not for sure which bullet style, caliber and firearm combination is best. I'm more concerned with a defensive aspect over the hunting scenario, if that matters when comparing all options. Also, a little more concerned with Brown Bears than Black Bears, not to underestimate any wild animal's capabilities.
I used to think these plate tests were useless but as a standardized disposable medium it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for all the data and enjoyment I get from your channel mate.
Seems like the 12ga had more punch, as it moved the rear cinder block more than the other two loads. I'm sure the soft lead, as well as diameter, limited the penetration. I prefer 12ga magnum slugs. Seems to me there's more damage crested. However, I am very impressed by the other two. Thank you tons for this video
Yea, I was confused about the 45-70 not penetrating the farthest with the longer barrel more velocity? The hard cast in the 500 would make sense, I suppose?
The much larger shock to the rear cinder block from the 12 gauge gives a good indication of the power. Keep in mind that a 12 gauge's .79 caliber is also having to move quite a bit more paper to penetrate than a 45 or 50. Sort of like comparing a sledgehammer to a nail. A nail will penetrate more, but which one is delivering more energy?
I would pick the 4570 also, but use a harder bullet that would hold together at mag loads. I think if it had not disintegrated, it would have given the 500 a run for it's money. I had a Ruger #1 for many years and it did incredible things with heavy reloads and hard cast bullets. Great vid, thanks.
I agree with your conclusion for hunting. But for emergencies and self defense against a big bear, I'll take the 12 gauge in a good pump. Even big bears are soft skinned. The energy dump on that 12 gauge was truly impressive. As expected.
Even though the .500 penetrated much further in... you can see it did not have the expansion of energy as the 12 gauge and .45 70 which leads me to believe the later two would have probably stopped a charging bear more effectively. I can be wrong on this, please feel free to correct me!
I think all of them have been proven to stop bears, just a 12 gauge can do it for 1/4 the price. Not to mention before the pandemic you could pick up the ammo from any Walmart for less than a 1/4 the price.
@@Key5ser5oze "hunting" a bear and "stopping" a bear charging are completely different as well. Hunting the bear doesn't know you're there and a bow doesn't produce a shock wave like a gun... There bear just sorta bleeds out and wanders off like "WTF just happened to me". A pissed off bear will definitely chase your ass up a tree and run faster than dogs through woods.... That is when you need a gun....a bow is not the weapon of choice since it's likely to maul you before it bleeds out. Hitting a running bear is extremely difficult anyway.
Very interesting! The impact of all these rounds was impressive. Couldn't help notice how the 12 gauge slug blew all the plates off the table. It takes a lot of force to push such a large object through those plates. Impressive all the way around. Thank you!
@@WHOTEEWHO You're welcome. I've been stocking up on 00 buckshot and slugs for home defense so your 'Bear Rounds" feature caught my attention. Besides, I've been wondering about loads for dangerous game.
The construction of the bullet makes all the Diff in these kinda of tests and actual penetration, the .500 magnum bullet was the tougher bullet, the 45-70 with a heat treated hardcast bullet is truly amazing on penetration.
I love lever guns esp Marlins and the .45-70 is an outstanding choice but in big brown/mountain grizzly country I think I’d have to go with a 12 gauge pump for my defensive choice. It’s a toss up, but I like the power those bear slugs put out and I think under duress it might be easier to short stroke a lever action rifle than a pump shottie. Love your videos man🐻👍
I’d still go with the 12 gauge. It’s not just penetration your looking for it’s wound size. And if you used hard cast rounds in the 45-70 or 500 you probably would of shot straight through it.
I Live in Bear county and I'll tell you from personal experience, if you run into a Bear at close-range you're going to need to shoot something that makes BIG HOLES. Most of the time I carry a 12 ga. With 3 inch slugs . They work. / Great video 👍
It's the kinetic energy that you're looking for. AKA stopping power! 12 Guage slugs are great up close or a charging grizzly. But aren't worth a dam over a hundred yards!
Bill Elt I hunt with a .405 Win, .45-70 Gvnt, .500 S&W, or a .300 WM. The .405 is T/C Encore, in .45-70 I carry a H&R Buffalo Rifle or Marlin 1895 Cowboy, the .500 in a NEF Handi-Rifle with 22” brl, for use in hvy brush! The .300 WM, Savage 110. I reload the .45-70 with 405 gr Cast Performance Heat Treated Solids. The .500 I reload with 370gr CP HTS. The .300 with 180gr X-Bullets. I coat all Cast Performance bullets with Lee’s Liquid Alox. I get no leading in the bores! For Back/up I carry a Ruger Bisley.44 Rem Mag or a S&W M25 in .45 Colt. Both reloaded with Cast Performance HT Solids. The .44 with 240 gr, the .45 with 260 gr.
Michael Hedgepeth I don’t know of a 45-70 magnum either but manufacturers do sell “magnum loads” for 45-70. Kind of like a +P, will fit in any firearm chambered for it but may not be safe in any firearm chambered for it.
Had hard cast bullets been used (which is usually recommended for bear) I think the 45-70 would have faired a lot better. Great video. Thanks for putting in the work.
Hollow points are NOT grizzly bullets! Grizzly flesh is the second densest on earth. (Cape Buffalo being 1st).The hollow points blow up almost immediately NOT reaching the vitals, nor being able to bone shatter & keep traveling on through. Granted, the wound will kill the bear eventually but not before it kills you. Thats why the hard cast WFN Hot/heavy loads are better. Keep their bone shattering & penetration abilities & the Wide Flat Nose still has tremendous shock wave energy. Ive used both in my 45/70. The 350 grain H.P. simply blew up right under the skin. The Hard cast WFN went stem to stern while destroying everything in its path. Stopped just under the rear flank fur on a 10 ft (Squared ) black bear & dropped it like a sack of rocks @ 100 yds charging. 420 grain WFN pumped up to 2100 FPS. Buffalo Bore loads a 430 grain WFN @ 2000 FPS whose terminal ballistics were almost identical. The 500 surprised me! Loaded w proper HEAVY Hard Cast WFNs would be amazing! Maybe even better than the 45/70... Go figure!!! Ive switched up from a 44 mag w 320 grain WFNs to the 454 Casul. Havent had a chance to get the hot heavy bear slugs for it yet but its lightest loads beat my 44s BEST loads. If u can, get the Hot/heavy Buffalo Bore loads & repeat the test only w soaked paper plates if possible to simulate the hydraulic shock effect too. Pretty impressive vid there bud in any case. Always a pleasure!!
tie oneon , 20 guage? maybe if the bears small & your using slugs. Better than a 44? Again, depends on the loading used. I carry a 45/70 w HOT WFN hard casts but I live in Alaska & our bears are HUGE. The short bbl bear pump shotguns w BRENNEKE bear slugs is common choice there for close "in your face" action & my backup was a 44 mag with 320 grain WFN HOT loaded slugs but Ive recently switched up to the 454. The handgun is just a backup if the bear takes your rifle away from you or your down & can shoot it in the face. You can kill most bears w a 22 rimfire if its a perfect eye shot or up the nose into the brain. But for body shots I go for BIG & HOT! Dont like head shots because i mount the skulls above our cabins door to greet visitors with. But in an ATTACK wouldnt hesitate a blink if I had to.
tie oneon , Your in more danger living in town. Home invasions, drunk drivers, tweakers, ect. Out in the bush if your neighbors give u any trouble u just shoot em & eat em. Course, our neighbors all have 4 legs. 😁
My issue with the magnums and heavy guns is from my experience as a guide on the family ranch. Guys that came out with a heavy guns always shot poorly. I think they flinch. Which makes for more wounding of animals. Bad placement. One guy kept missing hogs. He had brought a second gun that was a .223 and I suggested that he take it. He immediately took the hog cleanly. Most guys won't admit it but unless they are well experienced with the magnums and shoot a lot they flinch and make for poor in the humanity area hunters. Just my thoughts. Placement is more important than power. Of course I am not saying use a 22 short. Ha ha
If you are going to use a gun that has a lot of kick it is best to practice with it before hunting with it because you are right you have to get over flinching. I hunt deer in a shotgun zone & had to overcome flinching. Also shot placement is key, but if I had to pick one of the three, I would pick the 12 gage because it will put more of the energy into the animal instead of through it.
I know a genuine "Native" Gal from Alaska. And back home in the center of Bear County she wares a .44 magnum revolver just to walk around in her own back yard. She says the neighbors all carry .44 mag. Carbines! Guess that's where all them nice Rugers ended up!
Your test was at point blank range. Realistically, if you were hunting bear you would not want to have a pist off Grizzly bear that close to you. You would probably be dead before you got a shot off. Try the test at 50-yards. A majority of the hunting guides in the Yukon all pack 45-70 lever action rifles to backup their bear hunting clients. Also, try a 3-inch 12-gauge sabot hardened slug in a rifled barrel for a better comparison. Oh, by the way the fly thought there was a picnic and was looking for a free lunch. ;) The paper plates as a medium is brilliant!
@John Twelvegage dropped multiple deer where they stood with basic Remington 1oz rifled HP slugs between 80-110 yards. You can reach out with 12 gauge if you practice
The 45-70 is also accurate at 200 yards, whereas the shotgun and revolver are close-up weapons. And if you have a pissed off bear charging your butt, I’d rather not wait for it to get closer to assure an accurate shot. If you ask me, 200 yards is still too close for a pissed off bear. Cuddly Teddy bear, my ass! I have a friend who lost two and a half fingers to a large black bear during a driven deer hunt. The bear felt trapped, and fought his way out. We had to kill the bear. One of the young, eager guys in our party offered to field dress the bear. It was a warm week, and when the young guy cut open the bear’s abdominal wall, the putrid gases from the bear’s diaphragm expelled in the guy’s face. This guy was puking so hard, he couldn’t balance enough to kneel. Ah, the memories…
Thre is a point of no return thus no net gain i velocity with pistol cartridges. All the powder burns in the barrel at a certain length and after that point, friction takes it's toll and a drop if of velocity.
@@denisdegamon8224 They make lever guns for the .460 and .500 s&w and the gains are crazy. In fact the .460 out shines the 45-70 with 300 gr. Or less. The .500 is an animal in the lever gun. (Bighorn arms)
Guys, you need to watch "Alaskan Troopers". Every time they had to get a gun for bear and moose protection the Troopers and Game Wardens use mostly 12 gauge shotguns with Black Magic slugs and Marlin 45/70 Guide Guns with 45/70 ammo. Seen at least 7 of 'em use them in the series. What they didn't use was..... pepper spray. Only one used his issue AR-15.
12 gauge, Cheap, manageable recoil , heavy , gets the job done. Also, if bear decides after charging to NOT to get in your personal space then they won't get shot.
I live in the U. S. Northeast. Our bears here are nowhere near grizzly size, so a 45LC is more than enough gun. I carry a 45-70 - just because that is the rifle I happen to have. No magnum rounds or high powered horse play. My hip carry choice is a 44 mag. Again, it is enough.
I love the marlin 45-70 gbl. I carry it often. I put a red dot site on mine. It will take you anywhere you want to go. It isn't a long range gun but for the range that's available. It's devastating. Where I live all my shots are going to be 20 to 75 yards in the type of woods we have. peace out.
45/70 will out penetrate the others if you back up 25 yards. High velocity rounds take several yards to become stable. The jacket separation is indicative. Use hard cast or other proper ammo and the 45/70 will penetrate more deeply
[whoa] that brennike was *brutal* - I mean, medieval as in "carve'm up, hang'em high, and burn'em on the stake" brutal. Lever action is old school, so *yeeeeeeeehaw* !!! The 4570 casing is so, so _shiny_ . . . Hope you kept it :) Oh, the S&W, so easy on the eyes, and the .500 magnum bullet is just _murdering_ those plates. All in all: Grizzlies, beware!
There do Exist From Companies Like Double Tap, Grizzly Cartridge and Buffalo Bore and HSM that Produce Hard Cast Solids that are Quite Potent and Heavy Loads for Dangerous Game Situations. 45-70 is made in some extremely Heavy Loadings and a Marlin Holds a Good Number of Rounds. A Good Quality Pump Shotgun Loaded With Some Potent Slugs is a Good Combo. A Large Frame Revolver in .357, .44, .45 Colt + P, .454, .460 and .500 Using Hard Cast Heavy Bullets is the Way to Go. Always Bring Enough Gun for the Job.
Veitnam Veteran. For close encouters of 75 yards or less the 12 gauge pump and a 45 ACP on your side will do the job fine. For longer ranges like 75 to 300 yards you will need a .223/308 or better. The .223 or 308 will be better if you have 75 to 300 yard range encounter. You will need a pistol of some sort but I would not under a 357 Magnum to 45 ACP. The 9MM does not always do the job.
way back in the day bullet penetration was measured using ⅞" pine boards in a rigid box. Perhaps you may consider using something like that in a future video
Wow, nice test! I'm really surprised how much the 12g slug and the 4570 disintegrated but the 500 magnum stayed fairly intact! If I'm bear hunting, I think I'd take a semi-auto shotgun with the slugs... or maybe dual wield like your last comparison video!
Blake Hendrix , Bit of advise, get a pump action. WAY more dependable!! Semi autos are nice for bird hunting but like any semi auto prone to jamming. Pumps dont jam. Especially w hot/heavy BEAR loads.
I would choose the .500 on a hiking, camping, or floating trip. For a hunt it's the 45-70 all day. Why the pistol? Because it will be WHERE I need it WHEN I need it, not leaning up against a tree somewhere.
You should look at what a .444 can do. I chose that cal over the 45-70 because of the ballistics. Hornady makes a leverevolution load for that and it's really impressive in the fact that the range is increased a lot
And for close protection of bear attack 10mm will also do the trick ! I personally up in Northeast WI. wouldn't use any less than 10mm. Good to see your numbers going up !
Larry Guess Thanks Larry ! I'm even looking at maybe 45. Paul Harrell had some real good results with his 45 against the 10. Its only Black bears.Beleave it or not all different kinds of wolf's up their also. Seen the bears and only heard the wolfs on my Property in N.E. Marionette county Wi.
I still think the 12 gauge is king for “Bear protection”I did a similar test but with cut cardboard squares.My standard Foster slugs actually did better then the bernanky black magic slugs.45/70 I think would be better for hunting.The S@W 500 is cool but it’s a boat anchor,you need a really nice chest rig to carry it around.
The slug is producing more energy and effectively dissipates it into the target. Notice how the whole stack of plates is knocked off the table with the slug. They would all probably do a decent job (although I think most shooters will do better with a long gun under the pressure of a bear charge) but I would bet on a shotgun and a well set up pump offers rapid follow up shots as well
10 mm better less recoil hits hard penitrates good with hard cast bigger capacity 5 rounds fired is still only 1/3 mag lighter easy to aim recoil not bad am 69 shoot mine one handed ,am big bore fan pistol rifle you can load light or heavy but ya cant make a little bullet do a big job no matter how fast it goes small fast rock or big ass slow Boulder dead is dead dont realy matter how it got that way
NOTE: the Brenneke Black Magic is an A+ choice, but the other bullet choices are ridiculous for bear defense...WFNGC, LFNGC, or Belt Mountain Punch bullets are a must in either caliber; both are FAR MORE analogous in construction to the Brenneke, and absolutely needed for penetration into and through heavy bear tissues...✅
Third Black Bear I killed was with my 45/70 Ruger #1. The Bear weighed about 340 lbs. I used a 405 gr soft point loaded with 52.0 gr of IMR 3031. That old Boar Acted like he was struck with a lighting bolt. He was graveyard dead as I walked up on him. I hit him on the point of the shoulder from about 70 yards. My Yankee cousin killed his with a 25-06. It took him 3 shots. I'm sooo embarrassed! To your point, a 45/70 is Good Medicine for Bears!
I think with this test you should of used the 45-70 hard cast bullet the heaviest one you can get.With the 500 S&W the 700 gr hard cast,that way the bullets would survive.
Give me the 12g with the 500 on my hip. You can see the kinetic energy of the 12ga. by how much it makes the back block jump compared to the others. That alone will make a bear stand and take notice.
Marlin 1895 SS. They also make a 1895 "Cowboy" with octagon barrel and full length mag tube, and a 1895 "Guide" with an 18.5 inch ported barrel. I believe the US Park service uses the Guide model, loadex with the "light" 430 grain Garrett cartridges for "up close and personal hand shaking distance" on Griz and Brown Bear. (that one is "guaranteed" to shoot ldngthwise through a Cape buffalo. Their heavy 535 grain (note the .458 Win Magnum is "only" 500 grains) is supposed to shoot lengthwise through an adult bull elephant. A guy did use a Marlin guide rifle a few years back to take all 5 of the African Big 5. Garrett had the details on their website.
These videos are interesting. I was expecting the 45-70 to win this contest. I have heard that a 220 grain 30-06 load is also considered the minimum for grizzly. It would be cool to see how that would fare against 12g, 45-70, and 500 S&W.
I am shocked the .500 went through, not just more but Twice as many, WOW! Still take my 45-70 to Alaska when I visit my brother and hunt Elk and Caribou.
i'm a bit partial to a pump shotgun with a proper slug, however I just can't get on board with a boat anchor tied to my side. In the event it comes down to me, a bear with a side arm, i'll take accuracy with something just a tad smaller.
I'd be interested to see how the HSM Bear Load stacks up (430gr @ ~1800fps iirc), I imagine the hard cast lead bullets could penetrate much better than the expanding bullets you used
Take a 458 win mag 510grain soft nosed . This would penetrate all those paper plates and the solids will penetrate the entire length of a bear. The 458 Lott would be even better and the 416 rigby would be good for a 100 to 200 yard shot. On the other hand the 375 h&h might just be the best of the lot !
First off my grizzly gun would be my Winchester model70 in 375 h&h mag. Second that slug dumped a crap ton of energy into those plates and that was awesome to watch. Lastly the 500 mag just WOW!!
To each his own. My bear encounter would be very close, in heavy brush, quick, and vicious if it's a sow with cubs. I'd be fishing, so a shotgun is impractical. My protection sits in a chest holster behind my wader top bib, out of my way and easily accessible for quick-draw. It's a SW500/4" with re-designed 700 grain hard-casts. Lots of weight and diameter to transfer the energy. And it's pretty serious looking in my black leather hip holster with 700 grains in the bullet loops.
When I scout the low ground in the Spring I carry HSM’s 305 gr hard cast Bear Loads kicking out at 2640 fps so I feel pretty safe, plus making some noise and shrill whistle lets them know you’re coming
Geeza that 12 gauge did some damage. Like u said tho id take my 45-70 i know thats a beast. Good video to watch wasnt thinkin 2 times as many for the 500 mag. But i am a 45-70 junkie. Keep them coming who-tee-who love that stuff
I have yet to obtain a 45-70....had my heart set on a .458 WM, but too expensive. Reportedly, 45-70 can be loaded from very mild, for target shooting with pistol bullets, to almost-.458wm levels, assuming a strong enough gun....
Ya you can get 405 grain hardcasf traveling at 2000 FPS. But keep in mind the 45-70 shots like an ark. So training on low recoil rounds will be way diferent, as much as 12 inches at 50yards. Yes it will bruise up your shoulder nicely, but training on what you would use while hunting is a must.
12 gauge lightfield sabot slug 3.5" 600gr 1890fps 4759ft.lbs energy can't beat it I love my 45-70 & 500 mag but that 12 gauge is dropping any game every time
You hit it in the knee, you'll have time for a second shot. A guide told me he shot for the front shoulder first on a charging bear. ( Him being off to the side of his party) Which knocked it down. Then he killed it. He had something like a 460 or 475. I really don't remember that many years ago. Bullet sticking out of the cartridge was as big as my thumb.
I understand there are always variables. Shot placement, bullet construction, etc. I can tell you having been on a black bear hunt, where there were 6 bears harvested. Weapons used varied between bow and arrow to 30-06. Two bears were not recovered. Those were both shot with 45-70 and by two different hunters. The rest traveled no more than 75yrds. The shortest blood trail was the one I harvested with my bow. It only went about 20 yards. I personally trailed one of the bears shot with a 45-70 and there was little to no blood.
If you shoot the 500 S&W from an H&R Handi Rifle, the difference would have been even more pronounced and it would have made it apples to apples, as a handgun always has a disadvantage against a rifle.
If I'm hunting Alaskan brown bear I don't want to shoot him within shotgun range. I know how fast they can move, I lived in Yakutat, Alaska for a year..
they've been clocked moving straight ahead in sprint runs at 37 mph,they can bring a horse down with one swipe,standing your ground to unload dead center is only recourse,they hunt you or you kill them dead,wounded bear is bad news
For the 45-70, that is called JACKETING or the JACKET not the case or casing. The case holds the powder, primer and projectile. Sometimes called the "brass." the " jacket is the projectile or usually holds the lead of the projectile. Good video.
The S&W .500 Mag is a total waste of money, ammo is expensive as hell and they are a heavy unbalanced and uncomfortable gun to shoot, save your money a good Ruger Super Redhawk .44 mag will get the job done at half the cost.
But, is that sling arrangement something you will have prepared all the time, while hiking over large rocks and between trees? Is it just a range setup, under ideal conditions?
Better yet a hard cast, gas checked bullet that is over 405 grains would be better yet. I have cast 500 grain flat nose and 535 grain postell Buffalo bullets that hold togeher and can penetrate a one plus ton Buffalo, shot through both shoulders at over 200 yards. now that is penetration of over 48 inches of thick hide, heavy bone and muscle.
I like the 500 mag most of all, but $$$. I have forested property up in Utah I bought a couple of year ago. About every other time I'm there I see a bear (black bear). So I carry my Remington 870 Express magnum loaded with 5 Brenneke 3in magnum black Magic magnum slugs. And a ruger superblackhawk loaded with 6 320gr hardcast loads. I think that should be more than enough power for the lower 48.
After 4-6 inches of penetration it's the size of the hole that matters. I'd take a pump or automatic shot gun with the slugs. The shot gun was the only one that knocked the plates off the table. Which one do you think would stop a charge the best.
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I work in remote locations all across the state of Alaska - my bear defense preferences are; 12 gauge loaded with slugs for brush and in a camp, and the .45-70 loaded with hardcast +P rounds when I'm on open tundra or terrain with good visibility. I almost prefer the .45-70 because it's also an awesome moose round. Full disclosure though: I haven't had to kill any bear in self-defense yet, I've been both exceptionally lucky and very careful.
Some tell stories about charging big bears to show their bravery. The wise know that usually happens with defecating in your pants at the same time. The truly wise would prefer not to have an experience.
Do you think 12g size 4 shot would be enough to fend if a bear?
@@paulreid7129 I certainly wouldn’t use it - penetration is the name of the game, I like a jacketed sabot slug myself.
I’ve only seen a grizzly turn from a charge once, and that was because of a dog I had with me; meanwhile I was fighting with the 7.5” barrel on my Ruger Super Redhawk. Never count on a bear being spooked or turned by anything other than a kill shot.
@paulreid7129 NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT !!! For home defense yes. For a bear. NO NO NO
A 600 grain slug and a 45 70 are like brothers. Makes NO difference. And yes I'm a bear guide.
I'd go with the 12 gauge. It did more damage and transfered more energy. A 3 inch 1.5 Oz slug is a big, heavy powerful round. I'd feel pretty comfortable in Bear territory with a Shotgun loaded with Breneke Black Magic Magnum slugs.
If its still moving after 3 rounds from my 4570 I'm using the 4th round on myself!
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Ha! Best answer I have seen on youtube this year. LOL
Lol
LOL
@Dave Alexander --Many Deer have been Killed with a 22 Magnum...
The difference in penetration was more a function of bullet construction than the cartridges or the platforms they were fired from.
Yes, I was surprised the revolver penetrated so much farther. My guess before watching was that the rifle would prevail, but not by much. Now I want an in-depth presentation from Paul Harrell.
I was wondering if the shotgun and rifle projectiles were moving too fast for their own good for this test. Just too much velocity at point-blank for the projectile construction.
I was thinking the same thing
To even up the comparison a long barrel for the 500S&Wmag would be interesting. Maybe the Big Horn Armory Model 89 lever gun? Other than the one you have with you, I'm still not for sure which bullet style, caliber and firearm combination is best. I'm more concerned with a defensive aspect over the hunting scenario, if that matters when comparing all options. Also, a little more concerned with Brown Bears than Black Bears, not to underestimate any wild animal's capabilities.
Big horm armory lever gun is $2500. I'm broke
I just want to hear him say “dammit Bobby”
😁😁😁
Hahahaha!!!!
Hahahahaha!!!!
Hahahahahahah!!!!
Propane
@@mcschneiveoutdoors3681 q
@@WHOTEEWHO and propane accessories...
I used to think these plate tests were useless but as a standardized disposable medium it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for all the data and enjoyment I get from your channel mate.
The 12ga and 45-70 seemed to be soft lead and the 500 seemed to be hard cast which makes a big difference
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Agreed
Seems like the 12ga had more punch, as it moved the rear cinder block more than the other two loads. I'm sure the soft lead, as well as diameter, limited the penetration. I prefer 12ga magnum slugs. Seems to me there's more damage crested. However, I am very impressed by the other two.
Thank you tons for this video
I have a 444 Marlin and have hed hard cast handloads made for that very reason
Yea, I was confused about the 45-70 not penetrating the farthest with the longer barrel more velocity? The hard cast in the 500 would make sense, I suppose?
The much larger shock to the rear cinder block from the 12 gauge gives a good indication of the power. Keep in mind that a 12 gauge's .79 caliber is also having to move quite a bit more paper to penetrate than a 45 or 50.
Sort of like comparing a sledgehammer to a nail. A nail will penetrate more, but which one is delivering more energy?
Oh yeah don’t forget there are slugs that weigh upwards of 1000 grains, rivaling 50 bmg in terms of weight.
Also, lower velocities tend to penetrate deeper. The bullet stays together better.
@@garymccann2960 that's not necessarily so that's why you have a 357 Magnum penetrate more than a 45 ACP.
79 = 73 caliber
@@timothyprice9064 A 12 gauge slug is 0.79" in diameter.
Edit: Barrel is 0.79"
We appreciate this fun video. We appreciate the expense, the work & the pain! Love the .45-70!
I would pick the 4570 also, but use a harder bullet that would hold together at mag loads. I think if it had not disintegrated, it would have given the 500 a run for it's money. I had a Ruger #1 for many years and it did incredible things with heavy reloads and hard cast bullets. Great vid, thanks.
a Ruger #1 with pissin' hot hardcast 45-70 loads could probably kill God himself
Penetration is overrated as even the Brenneke slug easily penetrates bears, the .45-70 smokes the .500 for damage done which is what matters.
600 grain hard cast 45 70 = dead elephant charging at 50 ft ill keep my 45 70 going back to finish big 5 and yes my 45 70 sbl this time
I agree with your conclusion for hunting. But for emergencies and self defense against a big bear, I'll take the 12 gauge in a good pump. Even big bears are soft skinned. The energy dump on that 12 gauge was truly impressive. As expected.
...Bears have really thick skin. Where u finding "soft skinned" bear?
Even though the .500 penetrated much further in... you can see it did not have the expansion of energy as the 12 gauge and .45 70 which leads me to believe the later two would have probably stopped a charging bear more effectively. I can be wrong on this, please feel free to correct me!
I think all of them have been proven to stop bears, just a 12 gauge can do it for 1/4 the price. Not to mention before the pandemic you could pick up the ammo from any Walmart for less than a 1/4 the price.
I love using a 12 gauge with a slug on bears, they work real good...50 years and never lost any bear.
Western Ontario Canada.
Thanks Keith. I need to come hunting with you sometime
People regularly hunt and kill bears with a single bow and arrow shot so using a gun is overkill.
@@Semper Fi Nope, no using a back up gun is needed. You just need to be smart and sit up in a tree blind to shoot the bear with bow and arrow.
Keyser Soze to each his own. You like bow hunting? Go bow hunting. 🍻
@@Key5ser5oze "hunting" a bear and "stopping" a bear charging are completely different as well.
Hunting the bear doesn't know you're there and a bow doesn't produce a shock wave like a gun... There bear just sorta bleeds out and wanders off like "WTF just happened to me".
A pissed off bear will definitely chase your ass up a tree and run faster than dogs through woods.... That is when you need a gun....a bow is not the weapon of choice since it's likely to maul you before it bleeds out. Hitting a running bear is extremely difficult anyway.
Very interesting! The impact of all these rounds was impressive. Couldn't help notice how the 12 gauge slug blew all the plates off the table. It takes a lot of force to push such a large object through those plates. Impressive all the way around. Thank you!
Thanks for watching Rich!!!
@@WHOTEEWHO You're welcome. I've been stocking up on 00 buckshot and slugs for home defense so your 'Bear Rounds" feature caught my attention. Besides, I've been wondering about loads for dangerous game.
I'll keep this in mind when I run into a Grizzly wearing a paper plate vest!
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Lol 😂😂🥺 good one
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Lmao
I have herd that in certain places in the smokies them bears wear paper plate armor. A rumor? I don't know lol
The construction of the bullet makes all the Diff in these kinda of tests and actual penetration, the .500 magnum bullet was the tougher bullet, the 45-70 with a heat treated hardcast bullet is truly amazing on penetration.
I've found that a 12 gauge slug will solve most problems. ...
Never shot a 10 guage
Never shot one either ......why don't you do a paper plate challenge would love to see that.....
eric sorenson your right I used to shoot the BRI SOBOT SLUG they are extremely nasty
I love lever guns esp Marlins and the
.45-70 is an outstanding choice but in big brown/mountain grizzly country I think I’d have to go with a 12 gauge pump for my defensive choice. It’s a toss up, but I like the power those bear slugs put out and I think under duress it might be easier to short stroke a lever action rifle than a pump shottie. Love your videos man🐻👍
The 10 guage is not stronger than the shortest 12ga. This is due to it being loaded to a lower standard pressure.
I would go with the 12 gauge... much bigger hole and more diameter. The entrance wound is devastating
I’d still go with the 12 gauge. It’s not just penetration your looking for it’s wound size. And if you used hard cast rounds in the 45-70 or 500 you probably would of shot straight through it.
I Live in Bear county and I'll tell you from personal experience, if you run into a Bear at close-range you're going to need to shoot something that makes BIG HOLES. Most of the time I carry a 12 ga. With 3 inch slugs . They work. / Great video 👍
7OO grain 5OO Magnum ! ! !
It's the kinetic energy that you're looking for. AKA stopping power! 12 Guage slugs are great up close or a charging grizzly. But aren't worth a dam over a hundred yards!
The 405 gr 45-70 is probably a Remington bullet very soft not made to penetrate try something made to penetrate it will be a different story
Solid copper or a mixed cast .....all the way thru.
I never heard of 45-70 Magnum..just 45-70....js
Bill Elt I hunt with a .405 Win, .45-70 Gvnt, .500 S&W, or a .300 WM. The .405 is T/C Encore, in .45-70 I carry a H&R Buffalo Rifle or Marlin 1895 Cowboy, the .500 in a NEF Handi-Rifle with 22” brl, for use in hvy brush! The .300 WM, Savage 110. I reload the .45-70 with 405 gr Cast Performance Heat Treated Solids. The .500 I reload with 370gr CP HTS. The .300 with 180gr X-Bullets. I coat all Cast Performance bullets with Lee’s Liquid Alox. I get no leading in the bores! For Back/up I carry a Ruger Bisley.44 Rem Mag or a S&W M25 in .45 Colt. Both reloaded with Cast Performance HT Solids. The .44 with 240 gr, the .45 with 260 gr.
@Timothy Randolph Hand loads using 100% Straight Lino type. For myself that is when counting plates would become more interesting.
Michael Hedgepeth I don’t know of a 45-70 magnum either but manufacturers do sell “magnum loads” for 45-70. Kind of like a +P, will fit in any firearm chambered for it but may not be safe in any firearm chambered for it.
Out of my Encore... 408gr at 2000fps should do
Had hard cast bullets been used (which is usually recommended for bear) I think the 45-70 would have faired a lot better. Great video. Thanks for putting in the work.
Thanks for watching!
Hollow points are NOT grizzly bullets! Grizzly flesh is the second densest on earth. (Cape Buffalo being 1st).The hollow points blow up almost immediately NOT reaching the vitals, nor being able to bone shatter & keep traveling on through. Granted, the wound will kill the bear eventually but not before it kills you. Thats why the hard cast WFN Hot/heavy loads are better. Keep their bone shattering & penetration abilities & the Wide Flat Nose still has tremendous shock wave energy. Ive used both in my 45/70. The 350 grain H.P. simply blew up right under the skin. The Hard cast WFN went stem to stern while destroying everything in its path. Stopped just under the rear flank fur on a 10 ft (Squared ) black bear & dropped it like a sack of rocks @ 100 yds charging. 420 grain WFN pumped up to 2100 FPS. Buffalo Bore loads a 430 grain WFN @ 2000 FPS whose terminal ballistics were almost identical. The 500 surprised me! Loaded w proper HEAVY Hard Cast WFNs would be amazing! Maybe even better than the 45/70... Go figure!!! Ive switched up from a 44 mag w 320 grain WFNs to the 454 Casul. Havent had a chance to get the hot heavy bear slugs for it yet but its lightest loads beat my 44s BEST loads. If u can, get the Hot/heavy Buffalo Bore loads & repeat the test only w soaked paper plates if possible to simulate the hydraulic shock effect too. Pretty impressive vid there bud in any case. Always a pleasure!!
tie oneon , 20 guage? maybe if the bears small & your using slugs. Better than a 44? Again, depends on the loading used. I carry a 45/70 w HOT WFN hard casts but I live in Alaska & our bears are HUGE. The short bbl bear pump shotguns w BRENNEKE bear slugs is common choice there for close "in your face" action & my backup was a 44 mag with 320 grain WFN HOT loaded slugs but Ive recently switched up to the 454. The handgun is just a backup if the bear takes your rifle away from you or your down & can shoot it in the face. You can kill most bears w a 22 rimfire if its a perfect eye shot or up the nose into the brain. But for body shots I go for BIG & HOT! Dont like head shots because i mount the skulls above our cabins door to greet visitors with. But in an ATTACK wouldnt hesitate a blink if I had to.
Ooh that is hard to say. I honesly have no idea on that one
tie oneon , Your in more danger living in town. Home invasions, drunk drivers, tweakers, ect. Out in the bush if your neighbors give u any trouble u just shoot em & eat em. Course, our neighbors all have 4 legs. 😁
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My issue with the magnums and heavy guns is from my experience as a guide on the family ranch. Guys that came out with a heavy guns always shot poorly. I think they flinch. Which makes for more wounding of animals. Bad placement. One guy kept missing hogs. He had brought a second gun that was a .223 and I suggested that he take it. He immediately took the hog cleanly. Most guys won't admit it but unless they are well experienced with the magnums and shoot a lot they flinch and make for poor in the humanity area hunters. Just my thoughts. Placement is more important than power. Of course I am not saying use a 22 short. Ha ha
Yup all good there. Shouldnt hunt with a weapon you havent practiced with and are efficient at shooting
ALU Ministries ... Totally agree: shot placement is more important than caliber.
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If you are going to use a gun that has a lot of kick it is best to practice with it before hunting with it because you are right you have to get over flinching. I hunt deer in a shotgun zone & had to overcome flinching. Also shot placement is key, but if I had to pick one of the three, I would pick the 12 gage because it will put more of the energy into the animal instead of through it.
Man you have had some adventures! I need to go on a bear hunt one of these days
I know a genuine "Native" Gal from Alaska. And back home in the center of Bear County she wares a .44 magnum revolver just to walk around in her own back yard.
She says the neighbors all carry .44 mag. Carbines! Guess that's where all them nice Rugers ended up!
Your test was at point blank range. Realistically, if you were hunting bear you would not want to have a pist off Grizzly bear that close to you. You would probably be dead before you got a shot off. Try the test at 50-yards. A majority of the hunting guides in the Yukon all pack 45-70 lever action rifles to backup their bear hunting clients. Also, try a 3-inch 12-gauge sabot hardened slug in a rifled barrel for a better comparison. Oh, by the way the fly thought there was a picnic and was looking for a free lunch. ;)
The paper plates as a medium is brilliant!
Daniel-son: "Mr. Miyagi, can you chop through paper plates?"
Mr. Miyagi: "Don't know.... never been attacked by paper plates."
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Awesome as usual.
I think I'd go with the 12ga,
just seems like the initial punch would be greater, but I'm probably wrong.
I just like the 12ga
Same here, for the price of a 45/70 or an S&W500 I could arm 4 guys with 12 gauges and slugs.
Wow! That 12 ga. slug really shocked that stack of plates. Very impressive. Thanks WTH.
Thanks for watching! Yeah that 12-gauge definitely rocks things and even pushed back that back cinder block
@John Twelvegage dropped multiple deer where they stood with basic Remington 1oz rifled HP slugs between 80-110 yards. You can reach out with 12 gauge if you practice
The 45-70 is also accurate at 200 yards, whereas the shotgun and revolver are close-up weapons. And if you have a pissed off bear charging your butt, I’d rather not wait for it to get closer to assure an accurate shot. If you ask me, 200 yards is still too close for a pissed off bear. Cuddly Teddy bear, my ass! I have a friend who lost two and a half fingers to a large black bear during a driven deer hunt. The bear felt trapped, and fought his way out. We had to kill the bear. One of the young, eager guys in our party offered to field dress the bear. It was a warm week, and when the young guy cut open the bear’s abdominal wall, the putrid gases from the bear’s diaphragm expelled in the guy’s face. This guy was puking so hard, he couldn’t balance enough to kneel. Ah, the memories…
Imagine if that 500 magnum had a longer barrel like the other two. Very impressive!
Thre is a point of no return thus no net gain i velocity with pistol cartridges. All the powder burns in the barrel at a certain length and after that point, friction takes it's toll and a drop if of velocity.
@@denisdegamon8224 They make lever guns for the .460 and .500 s&w and the gains are crazy. In fact the .460 out shines the 45-70 with 300 gr. Or less. The .500 is an animal in the lever gun. (Bighorn arms)
Guys, you need to watch "Alaskan Troopers". Every time they had to get a gun for bear and moose protection the Troopers and Game Wardens use mostly 12 gauge shotguns with Black Magic slugs and Marlin 45/70 Guide Guns with 45/70 ammo. Seen at least 7 of 'em use them in the series. What they didn't use was..... pepper spray. Only one used his issue AR-15.
12 gauge, Cheap, manageable recoil , heavy , gets the job done. Also, if bear decides after charging to NOT to get in your personal space then they won't get shot.
I live in the U. S. Northeast. Our bears here are nowhere near grizzly size, so a 45LC is more than enough gun. I carry a 45-70 - just because that is the rifle I happen to have. No magnum rounds or high powered horse play. My hip carry choice is a 44 mag. Again, it is enough.
I love the marlin 45-70 gbl. I carry it often. I put a red dot site on mine. It will take you anywhere you want to go. It isn't a long range gun but for the range that's available. It's devastating. Where I live all my shots are going to be 20 to 75 yards in the type of woods we have. peace out.
That bear slug looks like it kick like 10 mules at once. Wow!
Penetration temporary cavity permanent cavity energy transfer are all different things. And for a charging bear what u want is a soft lead 12 ga slug
45/70 will out penetrate the others if you back up 25 yards. High velocity rounds take several yards to become stable. The jacket separation is indicative. Use hard cast or other proper ammo and the 45/70 will penetrate more deeply
[whoa] that brennike was *brutal* - I mean, medieval as in "carve'm up, hang'em high, and burn'em on the stake" brutal.
Lever action is old school, so *yeeeeeeeehaw* !!! The 4570 casing is so, so _shiny_ . . . Hope you kept it :)
Oh, the S&W, so easy on the eyes, and the .500 magnum bullet is just _murdering_ those plates.
All in all: Grizzlies, beware!
There do Exist From Companies Like Double Tap, Grizzly Cartridge and Buffalo Bore and HSM that Produce Hard Cast Solids that are
Quite Potent and Heavy Loads for Dangerous Game Situations. 45-70 is made in some extremely Heavy Loadings and a Marlin Holds
a Good Number of Rounds. A Good Quality Pump Shotgun Loaded With Some Potent Slugs is a Good Combo. A Large Frame Revolver
in .357, .44, .45 Colt + P, .454, .460 and .500 Using Hard Cast Heavy Bullets is the Way to Go. Always Bring Enough Gun for the Job.
Veitnam Veteran. For close encouters of 75 yards or less the 12 gauge pump and a 45 ACP on your side will do the job fine. For longer ranges like 75 to 300 yards you will need a .223/308 or better. The .223 or 308 will be better if you have 75 to 300 yard range encounter. You will need a pistol of some sort but I would not under a 357 Magnum to 45 ACP. The 9MM does not always do the job.
A 12 gauge 3" Magnum SABOT slug, and a .45-70 both my preferred bear rounds.
Im still partial to 375hh
way back in the day bullet penetration was measured using ⅞" pine boards in a rigid box. Perhaps you may consider using something like that in a future video
Wow, nice test! I'm really surprised how much the 12g slug and the 4570 disintegrated but the 500 magnum stayed fairly intact! If I'm bear hunting, I think I'd take a semi-auto shotgun with the slugs... or maybe dual wield like your last comparison video!
Yes! Dual wielding!!!
Blake Hendrix , Bit of advise, get a pump action. WAY more dependable!! Semi autos are nice for bird hunting but like any semi auto prone to jamming. Pumps dont jam. Especially w hot/heavy BEAR loads.
Love my 41 magnum...my favorite wheel gun......would love to have seen it in the 5 caliber review...a true over achiever
If I was hunting paper plates... the 500 S&W no question... but for Bear - 12ga all day long!
I'll stick with 12 gauge or 45-70
@@grizzlycountry1030 Me three
I would choose the .500 on a hiking, camping, or floating trip. For a hunt it's the 45-70 all day.
Why the pistol? Because it will be WHERE I need it WHEN I need it, not leaning up against a tree somewhere.
....or you could be safe and get a paper plate carrier?
You should look at what a .444 can do. I chose that cal over the 45-70 because of the ballistics. Hornady makes a leverevolution load for that and it's really impressive in the fact that the range is increased a lot
I need a 444
get some hard cast rounds made for it - twice the penetration
Cool video, 4570 would be my choice at a distance. Slug under 50 yards. We enjoy all your work. 👍
Really appreciate you watching! I love them all!
And for close protection of bear attack 10mm will also
do the trick ! I personally up in Northeast WI. wouldn't use any less than 10mm. Good to see your numbers going up !
Larry Guess
Thanks Larry ! I'm even looking at maybe 45. Paul Harrell had some real good results with his 45 against the 10. Its only Black bears.Beleave it or not all different kinds of wolf's up their also. Seen the bears and only heard the wolfs on my Property in N.E. Marionette county Wi.
I still think the 12 gauge is king for “Bear protection”I did a similar test but with cut cardboard squares.My standard Foster slugs actually did better then the bernanky black magic slugs.45/70 I think would be better for hunting.The S@W 500 is cool but it’s a boat anchor,you need a really nice chest rig to carry it around.
Thanks PB
The slug is producing more energy and effectively dissipates it into the target. Notice how the whole stack of plates is knocked off the table with the slug. They would all probably do a decent job (although I think most shooters will do better with a long gun under the pressure of a bear charge) but I would bet on a shotgun and a well set up pump offers rapid follow up shots as well
Yup yup. Thanks for watching!
foster slufs break up in bears, brenbekes don't.
Wowee! I was surprised at how well the .500 Magnum did. Thank you for sharing!
that 500 has some POWER
10 mm better less recoil hits hard penitrates good with hard cast bigger capacity 5 rounds fired is still only 1/3 mag lighter easy to aim recoil not bad am 69 shoot mine one handed ,am big bore fan pistol rifle you can load light or heavy but ya cant make a little bullet do a big job no matter how fast it goes small fast rock or big ass slow Boulder dead is dead dont realy matter how
it got that way
NOTE: the Brenneke Black Magic is an A+ choice, but the other bullet choices are ridiculous for bear defense...WFNGC, LFNGC, or Belt Mountain Punch bullets are a must in either caliber; both are FAR MORE analogous in construction to the Brenneke, and absolutely needed for penetration into and through heavy bear tissues...✅
Third Black Bear I killed was with my 45/70 Ruger #1. The Bear weighed about 340 lbs. I used a 405 gr soft point loaded with 52.0 gr of IMR 3031. That old Boar Acted like he was struck with a lighting bolt. He was graveyard dead as I walked up on him. I hit him on the point of the shoulder from about 70 yards. My Yankee cousin killed his with a 25-06. It took him 3 shots. I'm sooo embarrassed! To your point, a 45/70 is Good Medicine for Bears!
I think with this test you should of used the 45-70 hard cast bullet the heaviest one you can get.With the 500 S&W the 700 gr hard cast,that way the bullets would survive.
The 700gr 500 ammo is a power House I've shot it in the revolver and a rifle .it's my friends preferred load for when he goes to Hunt in Alaska.
Give me the 12g with the 500 on my hip. You can see the kinetic energy of the 12ga. by how much it makes the back block jump compared to the others. That alone will make a bear stand and take notice.
I agree with you but I’d hope it knocked the bear over when it took notice. Know what I mean?
Never have I ever seen a 12 gauge round like that. Those most be super powerful.
And I also have the same shotgun!! That's cool.
Marlin 1895 SS.
They also make a 1895 "Cowboy" with octagon barrel and full length mag tube, and a 1895 "Guide" with an 18.5 inch ported barrel.
I believe the US Park service uses the Guide model, loadex with the "light" 430 grain Garrett cartridges for "up close and personal hand shaking distance" on Griz and Brown Bear. (that one is "guaranteed" to shoot ldngthwise through a Cape buffalo. Their heavy 535 grain (note the .458 Win Magnum is "only" 500 grains) is supposed to shoot lengthwise through an adult bull elephant.
A guy did use a Marlin guide rifle a few years back to take all 5 of the African Big 5. Garrett had the details on their website.
These videos are interesting. I was expecting the 45-70 to win this contest. I have heard that a 220 grain 30-06 load is also considered the minimum for grizzly. It would be cool to see how that would fare against 12g, 45-70, and 500 S&W.
Jack O'Connor took 12 or 13 grizz over his lifetime of hunting with a .270. But, he was a staunch advocate of shot placement too.
I am shocked the .500 went through, not just more but Twice as many, WOW!
Still take my 45-70 to Alaska when I visit my brother and hunt Elk and Caribou.
I would love to go on an Alaskan hunt someday
@@WHOTEEWHO cheaper to go to africa
Great video. I would love to see you do the same comparing the 44 magnum to the 460 to the 500. All handguns you wear on your hip.
Thanks for watching Mark! Id carry them 😂🖒🖒
Impressive video. That 12 gauge packed a tremendous shocking power.
Tons of power!
👍That 12 ga energy response hit was cool to see. Thx
i'm a bit partial to a pump shotgun with a proper slug, however I just can't get on board with a boat anchor tied to my side. In the event it comes down to me, a bear with a side arm, i'll take accuracy with something just a tad smaller.
Great video as always
Thanks!
I'd be interested to see how the HSM Bear Load stacks up (430gr @ ~1800fps iirc), I imagine the hard cast lead bullets could penetrate much better than the expanding bullets you used
Garrett hammerhead 560gr
If it's still moving after 4 12 gauge slugs it's probably a dinosaur
12 gauge shotgun is my choice of gun cause you have a wide range of round to choose from and you can make up your own like rock salt to dimes.
Take a 458 win mag 510grain soft nosed . This would penetrate all those paper plates and the solids will penetrate the entire length of a bear. The 458 Lott would be even better and the 416 rigby would be good for a 100 to 200 yard shot. On the other hand the 375 h&h might just be the best of the lot !
Good Advice. Big Bears Mean Big Loads. Don't Mess Around. Hunting is One Thing. Potential Bear Attack and Defense is Another.
i think the 12guage can do a lot of damage because of its stopping power but ill go for the 4570
First off my grizzly gun would be my Winchester model70 in 375 h&h mag. Second that slug dumped a crap ton of energy into those plates and that was awesome to watch. Lastly the 500 mag just WOW!!
That slug sure did shake things up! It rocked that back cinder block hard
The two displayed Grizzlies in Alaska I saw had been taken with .375 H&H Mag. Either that, or perhaps .375 Ruger.
The two displayed grizzly bears I saw in Alaska were taken with .375 H&H....I took the info to heart.
To each his own. My bear encounter would be very close, in heavy brush, quick, and vicious if it's a sow with cubs. I'd be fishing, so a shotgun is impractical. My protection sits in a chest holster behind my wader top bib, out of my way and easily accessible for quick-draw. It's a SW500/4" with re-designed 700 grain hard-casts. Lots of weight and diameter to transfer the energy. And it's pretty serious looking in my black leather hip holster with 700 grains in the bullet loops.
That must be some honey hole. Risk vs reward.
When I scout the low ground in the Spring I carry HSM’s 305 gr hard cast Bear Loads kicking out at 2640 fps so I feel pretty safe, plus making some noise and shrill whistle lets them know you’re coming
Geeza that 12 gauge did some damage. Like u said tho id take my 45-70 i know thats a beast. Good video to watch wasnt thinkin 2 times as many for the 500 mag. But i am a 45-70 junkie. Keep them coming who-tee-who love that stuff
I have yet to obtain a 45-70....had my heart set on a .458 WM, but too expensive. Reportedly, 45-70 can be loaded from very mild, for target shooting with pistol bullets, to almost-.458wm levels, assuming a strong enough gun....
Ya you can get 405 grain hardcasf traveling at 2000 FPS. But keep in mind the 45-70 shots like an ark. So training on low recoil rounds will be way diferent, as much as 12 inches at 50yards. Yes it will bruise up your shoulder nicely, but training on what you would use while hunting is a must.
12 gauge lightfield sabot slug 3.5"
600gr 1890fps 4759ft.lbs energy can't beat it I love my 45-70 & 500 mag but that 12 gauge is dropping any game every time
You can drop even an elephant with this one.
True!
@@Braiola NO!!!!!!!
@@jozefhorvat3625 Hollywood gave superpowers to the 12g and most of the people got their education from the movies. Unfortunately!!
have power but very soft bullet. they need to make steel ones like the monolite slugs
With reasonable shot placement, I think any one of them will stop a bear. Hit it in the knee, well, nice knowing you.
I agree! Thanks Michael!
You hit it in the knee, you'll have time for a second shot. A guide told me he shot for the front shoulder first on a charging bear. ( Him being off to the side of his party) Which knocked it down. Then he killed it. He had something like a 460 or 475. I really don't remember that many years ago. Bullet sticking out of the cartridge was as big as my thumb.
This guy
If I'm ever attacked by paper plates, I'd go with the .500 magnum. (I think you just ruined somebody's picnic though).
I've got a 5" .475 Linebaugh. It packs well in a cross draw holster and leaves both hands free to work with
I understand there are always variables. Shot placement, bullet construction, etc. I can tell you having been on a black bear hunt, where there were 6 bears harvested. Weapons used varied between bow and arrow to 30-06. Two bears were not recovered. Those were both shot with 45-70 and by two different hunters. The rest traveled no more than 75yrds. The shortest blood trail was the one I harvested with my bow. It only went about 20 yards. I personally trailed one of the bears shot with a 45-70 and there was little to no blood.
If you shoot the 500 S&W from an H&R Handi Rifle, the difference would have been even more pronounced and it would have made it apples to apples, as a handgun always has a disadvantage against a rifle.
If I'm hunting Alaskan brown bear I don't want to shoot him within shotgun range. I know how fast they can move, I lived in Yakutat, Alaska for a year..
shotguns are lethal and pretty accurate to 100 yards or so, id be alright with that. no point sniping them, they gotta be somewhere too
It's amazing how fast an animal the size of a brown bear can move.
they've been clocked moving straight ahead in sprint runs at 37 mph,they can bring a horse down with one swipe,standing your ground to unload dead center is only recourse,they hunt you or you kill them dead,wounded bear is bad news
Bears are scary. If say I'd carry my sw500 but by the time I pop two rounds my hand wound have exploded and I'd be mauled (appreciate the love bro)
More a test of bullet construction, old school 45/70 slugs turn explosive @ +p loadings.
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Brenneke's Special Forces Magnum Penetrator Slugs are Good Choices too. They are Designed Strictly to Penetrate, Crush and Destroy.
Appreciate your channel. Enjoy the excitement, as well as keeping the tests fairly scientific!
Appreciate you watching!
I'd like to see what a BRI 3" sabot slug would do. That's my choice.
For hunting the big bears the .375H&H is probably the best single rifle. The 12 gauge shotgun with the right ammo is the best long gun for defense.
12 Gauge slugs will do just fine. I like a heavy 3" slug and 00buck alternating back and forth. Cap stick decapitated a lion with 00buck.
I carry my mossberg 500 12 gauge field gun with 00 buck for near protection
For the 45-70, that is called JACKETING or the JACKET not the case or casing. The case holds the powder, primer and projectile. Sometimes called the "brass." the " jacket is the projectile or usually holds the lead of the projectile. Good video.
12 guage was winner because of block nearly knocked off the table....WAY more energy. Bigger hole almost same depth.
Marlin needs to chamber the 500 S&W in its great lever action.
Yup
Yes!!
Damned right !!! That would be awesome. some companies do it, but at about $2500 to $3500, out of most people's reach.
Marlin's lever action is not strong enough for the pressures involved but try the Big Horn Armory model 89. Thats a serious lever action.
Talk to RUGER
Love your reviews. Just picked up my 336 30-30 today. Saving up for the SW 500mag
I want one of each so bad! I better start saving!
@wingthwong Thank you
Appreciate you watching Stephen!
The S&W .500 Mag is a total waste of money, ammo is expensive as hell and they are a heavy unbalanced and uncomfortable gun to shoot, save your money a good Ruger Super Redhawk .44 mag will get the job done at half the cost.
Something cool about it being a "50"
I feed my S&W 500 bear gun Underwood 420 grain Xtreme Penetrator. Easier to carry in a chest rig and much faster than a slung rifle or shotgun.
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But, is that sling arrangement something you will have prepared all the time, while hiking over large rocks and between trees? Is it just a range setup, under ideal conditions?
You can see the lead skid mark going right off the edge of the plate.That slug exited because the shock scattered your plates.
That 45/70 lever gun is sweet...all my gear is modern and tactical but i always drool over those cowboy guns when i go to the range/shop.
I love em all!
Looks like a 300 gr hollow point for the 45/70, should of use at least 350 gr non hollow point!
Better yet a hard cast, gas checked bullet that is over 405 grains would be better yet.
I have cast 500 grain flat nose and 535 grain postell Buffalo bullets that hold togeher and can penetrate a one plus ton Buffalo, shot through both shoulders at over 200 yards.
now that is penetration of over 48 inches of thick hide, heavy bone and muscle.
copper jacketed 12 gauge would be a better comparison
I like the 500 mag most of all, but $$$. I have forested property up in Utah I bought a couple of year ago. About every other time I'm there I see a bear (black bear). So I carry my Remington 870 Express magnum loaded with 5 Brenneke 3in magnum black Magic magnum slugs. And a ruger superblackhawk loaded with 6 320gr hardcast loads. I think that should be more than enough power for the lower 48.
Eric Snow. I think that should work.
Who Tee Who the bullets have jackets and the cartridge is the case. Thanks for posting.
Cool test! The 500 magnum really surprised me. I had no idea...
Thanks
Surprised me too
After 4-6 inches of penetration it's the size of the hole that matters. I'd take a pump or automatic shot gun with the slugs. The shot gun was the only one that knocked the plates off the table. Which one do you think would stop a charge the best.
That's what I told her.
I would like to see this demo with all 3 using extreme penetrator-type rounds.
An old Bear hunter in Alaska when asked what he hunted bear with..he said.."A 12 gauge is deadly at 4 feet".
I try not let a bear 4 feet I be bear meal
great choice of 12ga ammo for bear
👍👍
A good reason to use hard cast bullets > jacketed.