@@beingofgrowth This is exactly what an oblivious person will say and believe until they experience something of similar nature on their own skin. This goes beyond the law. The law is crooked.
@beingofgrowth So you sayin that it's normal for me to now file a 10 pages formally written lawsuit against you, mostly filled with garbage formal words culminating in a final point that you called me unhinged?
@beingofgrowth Exactly! But WP Engine can sue Matt for saying "please sue me"? My entire point of the video is that their lawsuit is 62 pages full of crap about things that no justice system would consider reasonable, if you read the complaint you would understand. But they are quite aware of it same as I am aware that I can't sue you for calling me unhinged, so why file a lawsuit that you know you are going to lose anyway? Must have some back intention here... *No feelings were hurt in the process of this conversation.
The whole premise of this video is a fight against logic. If the whole lawsuit is bullshit its funny the only example you choose to highlight is one line, not even a full sentence, in a whole 60+ page document. Then you explain in Matt's benevolence he chose to make this open source and free, but apparently there was an asterisk. You have to contribute in an approved way, but only once you get to some unspecified gross income... Which in itself kinda goes against the whole open source ideal. Your whole argument/video is a strawman. You don't address any of the actual points, you just make up these hypotheticals. I mean honestly if Matt would have handled this in courts to begin with and not done a bi-poler 180 over the span of a conference he wouldn't have to be wasting all this time and effort on people like you to spin him good PR. And he also wouldn't have shaken the faith of an entire open source community. To me this is more like a kid throwing a tantrum, and thats what has everyone actually worried.
For what is true, I should have included more samples of the crap that is stated in the lawsuit and I may do that in a future video just to expose the nonsense that no justice system would find as an issue worthy of addressing, if this video turns out to be successful and make a good impact. Now the contribution to the eco system of the open source that helped you make millions is something that every single person with at least a little bit of integrity should not even think about resisting, and there is no need of a hidden asterisk to state that, you should know that it's the right thing to do. It's like not wanting to repay your parents for educating you and supporting you while you were in the process of making those millions, and they have the full right to give up on you, not talk to you anymore for the rest of their life or never again invite you to a family dinner when the whole family is gathered together. Now Matt as the one who gave us all he's got, was aware enough of human's greed and he licensed the trademark, so now he can use it as a way to compel those who don't want to do contribute and he has every right to do so because if he allows them to just disrespectfully step over his creation, they would equal to a prick laughing at your face while can't do anything about it. WP Engine on the other hand is trying to convince all family members that their parents are the bad ones for asking them to support the growth of the bloodline and they believe that they have no obligation to give back to those who raised them and gave them an identity. And we as a community should support what is morally right because if we allow greedy corporations like WP Engine to teach us lessons about how you can be robbed and suffer negative consequences for being selfless, we as humanity are fucked. Maybe handling this in court would have been a better way to do it, but going for this route helps the entire community get a better sense of direction for life, since the outcome of this entire situation will have a huge impact on us all (like caveman learned that fire can burn you by witnessing one suffering the consequences of touching the fire)
@@ExtendedUniverse55 Honestly I think a video just going point by point over the issues raised would be 100% than this. Everyone knows systems can be manipulated to present facts a specific way. This isn't just the legal system, Matts the one thats been making this public and basically begging anyone from WPE to engage. From the outside looking in it seems like he would rather have this play out over the court of public opinion rather than an actual court of law. Don't get me wrong, WPEngine 100% should contribute more. But the issue on open source is the fact that all the sudden this big enterprise level company (that months prior Matt himself was supporting and allowed to buy space at the wordcamp conference), can within a matter of days be completely cut off from WordPress's built-in update system. This isn't an act that just hurts WPE, this actively hurts people that are completely innocent and really their only crime was choosing to build with this CMS. Even if we assume Matt is 100% right on every point, his actions and continued actions affect a lot of people that really have nothing to do with this. And honestly it doesn't matter how long they've been talking behind the scenes. To anyone watching this was a complete flip, had there been any kinda gradual buildup or even some slightly more subtle public jabs before just lighting everything on fire, i think most of this could have been avoided. The route Matt took is what has caused such a big community backlash in the first place. I think the best thing for the community would be if everyone took Matt off of his pedestal, and take an honest look at whats going on and how it was handled. Matt deserves respect for WordPress 100% but setting him up as this effigy for open source in such a way his own motives aren't also called into question when an act like this happens is nonsense.
@admonishedAlligator So if you watched the entire video, I clearly stated that his mistake was not informing the community before taking actions that will impact a big portion of it (I state that near the end) but for what is worth, he apologized for his actions in Theo's interview and promised to do a better job informing people of his actions that may impact them in time in case a similar problem arises in the future. But it seems like the majority of people are not aware that systems can be manipulated and are acting as if you are the greatest conspiracy theorist when stating that fact (you one of the few that admins system manipulation si real), and this is where we are failing as a community. Most people are literally acting as those backrow people in a voting conference who came just to hang around, don't even put an effort into understanding what the voting is about and raise their hands based on what their idol voted for, and then behave like caveman when their idol votes against Matt (Matt=bad guy, attack!) Not only that I admit Matt's fault in this comment, but I also state it in the initial video. However, as someone who's experienced similar form of injustice and fought many wars against WPE-like oppressors , I am telling you that sometimes, innocent people have to suffer the consequences of your war if you want to end up proving a worthy point that could impact a change, or just accept the defeat, be disrespected and let the opponent impact what I consider wold be a negative change, turning people into greedy, unethical, inhumane caveman, fighting for their piece of bread rather then evolving as species. In my eyes, WP Engine is the problem, Matt's just making mistakes as he is fighting that and that's normal, not every move you make can be the right one, at least he apologized for his.
@@ExtendedUniverse55 This isn't going anywhere, you type out such big walls of text to say so little. Your arguments are at best strawmen, and your display here makes it clear there are specific character types that blind your opinion. Idolizing this person is blinding you to their actions. You do know automattic is funded by Blackrock right? Among many other PE firms. Why do you think he can "Donate" so many man hours to his "Open Source" Project? Its easy to convince investors to let you donate when your in Matt's position. Especially if their projects just seem to line up with what Automatic needs. Oh and a big competitor in the space that also just hosts wordpress, (That Matt himself has been close with since the beginning). Now, after all this time WPE is a problem and needs to give back more? But not only do they have to give back more, they have to agree by my arbitrary deadline or else he's going to weaponize the community against them. These are not the actions of a man protecting his child, his creation. These are the actions of a greedy little man that simply wants a bigger piece of the pie. You can try and frame this of Matt against Silver Lake all you want, but you and me both know thats a lie.
@admonishedAlligator It is normal to idolize specific types of people when you are experiencing similar forms of injustice and since your judgement towards me is based on few back and forth messages about one specific subject, you don't really have a clear image of who I am. I have been through some life-changing experiences that led me to believe in a certain ideology that aligns with the actions that Matt is taking and the intentions behind them, regardless of the fact that Blackrock stands behind Automattic. I am not being blinded by a specific type of a person, I have become the same specific type of a person that I was and still am idolizing, long time ago. Me supporting Matt's side of the story is merely an expression fo who I am as a person and what I deeply believe in. Blackrock on the other hand has been intentionally demonized by it's own people and is publicly hated by people who have little to none understanding of the things that are happening deeply in the roots of the circles of people who are operating the system. My comments may seem as a strawmen to you based on your understanding about how the world works and your ability to understand the intentions that I have. The tight deadline WPE was given is just an attempt to pressure them into abiding by his requests since the only way to deal with a bully is to become a bully yourself. WPE disrespecting Matt's work by refusing to contribute as everyone else is doing while thinking they are untouchable is a form of bullying (I will steal your lunch money and there is nothing you can do about it = I won't contribute and there is nothing you can do about it). And as I said before, the best way to deal with a bully is to become a bully yourself, that's exactly what he has done. I genuinely believe that someone in Matt's position, with all the connections and money that he has will not care about getting a bigger piece of the pie. Wars don't happen because of money, they happen because of the human ego, and there has been a humiliation attempt on Matt's ego, now he is showing them what he is capable of. The backlash is worth it since it's does not affect him personally (he's got better things to do than care for what the world is saying about him) and in the end he is going to win and walk away with a clean name anyway since the game is rigged in his favor. I hope that you understand that this is not about you or me choosing a side, this is war between two sides trying to prove each other who is the bigger force with WPE dissing first. I support Matt more because I have genuinely experienced opponents who will try to screw you over your selflessness, and disrespectfully laugh at your face while wearing a naive mask in front of other people. For you Matt may be the one who is wearing the naive mask. One question to resolve it all... Aside SilverLake and Blackrock, how has Matt's decision to give you the right to use WordPress without you specifically paying him a single dime have contributed to your life or business, and then how has WP Engine contributed to your life or business and at what cost? Also how much of the money they charged you went back to the community and the growth of the open-source platform? How much Matt, Blackrock, Automattic has invested into making the tool available to you. Answer this and you will understand his decision to take legal action against them, and how needed is the suffering that their clients has to go through in order for him to make a point that even though it's not stated anywhere, YOU NEED TO CONTRIBUTE. And you need to be aware of it yourself, you don't even need to wait for someone to remind you, let alone refuse when they try to nicely remind you of your obligation. You don't even have to answer it to me if you are feeling like this is going nowhere, answer it to yourself. Also if you really care about getting your mind straight around this subject and you have the time to do so, take the time to watch the video again after this entire conversation.
Matt has acted perhaps in the most naive way possible. I truly hope he learns that not every company can be related with in a nonstandard way. In his interview, he mentions other companies make contributions and do not give him grief. However, he claimed WPE have been leading him on. Their lack of response to many of the messages he sent, seems to me like the actions of someone trying to string you along like a fool. While staying in the bounds of plausible deniability. It begs the question of who his partners or assistants are, how come he doesn't have any filter for handling something this important. He seems oblivious to the possibility of loosing his life's work if things turn south.
I don't think there is a possible scenario where things turn south because aside from all the greed that's present in this world, at the very top of the pyramids of power, people with integrity stand still and strong and fight unjust fights as the one Matt is having with WPE. When you step back and look at the progress that humans can make with selfless contributions, you will understand his decision to make WP open-source is the biggest contribution someone has made in the world of web development, but if you are being taken advantage of for contributing to human advancement and no one does anything about it, you will 100% give up and become selfish, bringing humanity closer to stagnation rather than making progress, and that's why Matt will be protected. If we want to evolve and progress we can't allow someone's greedy behavior (like WPE) to teach us lessons about how you suffer negative consequences for being selfless, and there are people with power in their hands who understand this, therefore, they will work in the favor of Matt who selflessly shared his life's work and created so many opportunities for so many people. What you may be calling naive, is Matt's open communication about how he asked them to contribute and then decided to handle them legally when they refused to contribute but he's just being honest about how he is handling things and that's exactly how things work in the world. There would be no need for a legal system to protect you if humans had evolved beyond greed, and since we are still not there and refuse to respectfully pay homage to those who deserve it, legal action is being taken where applicable. As someone coming from the streets of the ghetto, I am telling you that the business world is lucky to have the legal system as a way to force people to respect, because in places where the law does not apply, you disrespect someone like that, you are going down for good.
According to the complaint filed by WPE, the first word on this trademark infringement came when they delivered their licensing agreement in September. According to WPE's filing, they were actually engaged in discussions about becoming an official partner for the WooCommerce Hosting program. It's their take on the situation, but every time Matt's been asked to produce an email or document showing that he's been at them for 18 months to clean up their "infringement," he's refused to provide it. At this point, I'll take the word of the official complaint logged in the State of California, not Matt's rambling on some livestream.
I completely understand people choosing to trust an official complaint, especially when it has been designed to turn their focus towards things that arise doubt against the target, but after witnessing the flawed system that we exist in, suffering the consequences of it's flaws when I was young and inexperienced, and then using it's flaws to achieve a desired outcome, I can't trust anything that is labeled legal or official. Not trying to flip you, just stating my thoughts based on my life experiences.
⬇ Drop your thoughts in the comments section ⬇
This take is hot garbage and has no relevance to what is actually going on or understanding of our laws.
@@beingofgrowth This is exactly what an oblivious person will say and believe until they experience something of similar nature on their own skin. This goes beyond the law. The law is crooked.
This is beyond delusional. Why are you gaslighting yourself?
You would only know this is real if you experienced such injustice supported by a flawed system.
@@darkly77 exactly. Dude is unhinged.
@beingofgrowth So you sayin that it's normal for me to now file a 10 pages formally written lawsuit against you, mostly filled with garbage formal words culminating in a final point that you called me unhinged?
@@ExtendedUniverse55 you could but you wouldn’t win or it would get thrown out. Freedom of speech. Sorry if your feelings were hurt.
@beingofgrowth Exactly! But WP Engine can sue Matt for saying "please sue me"?
My entire point of the video is that their lawsuit is 62 pages full of crap about things that no justice system would consider reasonable, if you read the complaint you would understand.
But they are quite aware of it same as I am aware that I can't sue you for calling me unhinged, so why file a lawsuit that you know you are going to lose anyway?
Must have some back intention here...
*No feelings were hurt in the process of this conversation.
The whole premise of this video is a fight against logic. If the whole lawsuit is bullshit its funny the only example you choose to highlight is one line, not even a full sentence, in a whole 60+ page document. Then you explain in Matt's benevolence he chose to make this open source and free, but apparently there was an asterisk. You have to contribute in an approved way, but only once you get to some unspecified gross income... Which in itself kinda goes against the whole open source ideal.
Your whole argument/video is a strawman. You don't address any of the actual points, you just make up these hypotheticals.
I mean honestly if Matt would have handled this in courts to begin with and not done a bi-poler 180 over the span of a conference he wouldn't have to be wasting all this time and effort on people like you to spin him good PR. And he also wouldn't have shaken the faith of an entire open source community. To me this is more like a kid throwing a tantrum, and thats what has everyone actually worried.
For what is true, I should have included more samples of the crap that is stated in the lawsuit and I may do that in a future video just to expose the nonsense that no justice system would find as an issue worthy of addressing, if this video turns out to be successful and make a good impact.
Now the contribution to the eco system of the open source that helped you make millions is something that every single person with at least a little bit of integrity should not even think about resisting, and there is no need of a hidden asterisk to state that, you should know that it's the right thing to do.
It's like not wanting to repay your parents for educating you and supporting you while you were in the process of making those millions, and they have the full right to give up on you, not talk to you anymore for the rest of their life or never again invite you to a family dinner when the whole family is gathered together.
Now Matt as the one who gave us all he's got, was aware enough of human's greed and he licensed the trademark, so now he can use it as a way to compel those who don't want to do contribute and he has every right to do so because if he allows them to just disrespectfully step over his creation, they would equal to a prick laughing at your face while can't do anything about it.
WP Engine on the other hand is trying to convince all family members that their parents are the bad ones for asking them to support the growth of the bloodline and they believe that they have no obligation to give back to those who raised them and gave them an identity.
And we as a community should support what is morally right because if we allow greedy corporations like WP Engine to teach us lessons about how you can be robbed and suffer negative consequences for being selfless, we as humanity are fucked.
Maybe handling this in court would have been a better way to do it, but going for this route helps the entire community get a better sense of direction for life, since the outcome of this entire situation will have a huge impact on us all (like caveman learned that fire can burn you by witnessing one suffering the consequences of touching the fire)
@@ExtendedUniverse55 Honestly I think a video just going point by point over the issues raised would be 100% than this. Everyone knows systems can be manipulated to present facts a specific way. This isn't just the legal system, Matts the one thats been making this public and basically begging anyone from WPE to engage. From the outside looking in it seems like he would rather have this play out over the court of public opinion rather than an actual court of law.
Don't get me wrong, WPEngine 100% should contribute more. But the issue on open source is the fact that all the sudden this big enterprise level company (that months prior Matt himself was supporting and allowed to buy space at the wordcamp conference), can within a matter of days be completely cut off from WordPress's built-in update system. This isn't an act that just hurts WPE, this actively hurts people that are completely innocent and really their only crime was choosing to build with this CMS. Even if we assume Matt is 100% right on every point, his actions and continued actions affect a lot of people that really have nothing to do with this.
And honestly it doesn't matter how long they've been talking behind the scenes. To anyone watching this was a complete flip, had there been any kinda gradual buildup or even some slightly more subtle public jabs before just lighting everything on fire, i think most of this could have been avoided. The route Matt took is what has caused such a big community backlash in the first place.
I think the best thing for the community would be if everyone took Matt off of his pedestal, and take an honest look at whats going on and how it was handled. Matt deserves respect for WordPress 100% but setting him up as this effigy for open source in such a way his own motives aren't also called into question when an act like this happens is nonsense.
@admonishedAlligator So if you watched the entire video, I clearly stated that his mistake was not informing the community before taking actions that will impact a big portion of it (I state that near the end) but for what is worth, he apologized for his actions in Theo's interview and promised to do a better job informing people of his actions that may impact them in time in case a similar problem arises in the future.
But it seems like the majority of people are not aware that systems can be manipulated and are acting as if you are the greatest conspiracy theorist when stating that fact (you one of the few that admins system manipulation si real), and this is where we are failing as a community.
Most people are literally acting as those backrow people in a voting conference who came just to hang around, don't even put an effort into understanding what the voting is about and raise their hands based on what their idol voted for, and then behave like caveman when their idol votes against Matt (Matt=bad guy, attack!)
Not only that I admit Matt's fault in this comment, but I also state it in the initial video.
However, as someone who's experienced similar form of injustice and fought many wars against WPE-like oppressors , I am telling you that sometimes, innocent people have to suffer the consequences of your war if you want to end up proving a worthy point that could impact a change, or just accept the defeat, be disrespected and let the opponent impact what I consider wold be a negative change, turning people into greedy, unethical, inhumane caveman, fighting for their piece of bread rather then evolving as species.
In my eyes, WP Engine is the problem, Matt's just making mistakes as he is fighting that and that's normal, not every move you make can be the right one, at least he apologized for his.
@@ExtendedUniverse55 This isn't going anywhere, you type out such big walls of text to say so little. Your arguments are at best strawmen, and your display here makes it clear there are specific character types that blind your opinion. Idolizing this person is blinding you to their actions.
You do know automattic is funded by Blackrock right? Among many other PE firms. Why do you think he can "Donate" so many man hours to his "Open Source" Project? Its easy to convince investors to let you donate when your in Matt's position. Especially if their projects just seem to line up with what Automatic needs. Oh and a big competitor in the space that also just hosts wordpress, (That Matt himself has been close with since the beginning). Now, after all this time WPE is a problem and needs to give back more? But not only do they have to give back more, they have to agree by my arbitrary deadline or else he's going to weaponize the community against them.
These are not the actions of a man protecting his child, his creation. These are the actions of a greedy little man that simply wants a bigger piece of the pie. You can try and frame this of Matt against Silver Lake all you want, but you and me both know thats a lie.
@admonishedAlligator It is normal to idolize specific types of people when you are experiencing similar forms of injustice and since your judgement towards me is based on few back and forth messages about one specific subject, you don't really have a clear image of who I am.
I have been through some life-changing experiences that led me to believe in a certain ideology that aligns with the actions that Matt is taking and the intentions behind them, regardless of the fact that Blackrock stands behind Automattic.
I am not being blinded by a specific type of a person, I have become the same specific type of a person that I was and still am idolizing, long time ago.
Me supporting Matt's side of the story is merely an expression fo who I am as a person and what I deeply believe in.
Blackrock on the other hand has been intentionally demonized by it's own people and is publicly hated by people who have little to none understanding of the things that are happening deeply in the roots of the circles of people who are operating the system.
My comments may seem as a strawmen to you based on your understanding about how the world works and your ability to understand the intentions that I have.
The tight deadline WPE was given is just an attempt to pressure them into abiding by his requests since the only way to deal with a bully is to become a bully yourself.
WPE disrespecting Matt's work by refusing to contribute as everyone else is doing while thinking they are untouchable is a form of bullying (I will steal your lunch money and there is nothing you can do about it = I won't contribute and there is nothing you can do about it).
And as I said before, the best way to deal with a bully is to become a bully yourself, that's exactly what he has done.
I genuinely believe that someone in Matt's position, with all the connections and money that he has will not care about getting a bigger piece of the pie.
Wars don't happen because of money, they happen because of the human ego, and there has been a humiliation attempt on Matt's ego, now he is showing them what he is capable of.
The backlash is worth it since it's does not affect him personally (he's got better things to do than care for what the world is saying about him) and in the end he is going to win and walk away with a clean name anyway since the game is rigged in his favor.
I hope that you understand that this is not about you or me choosing a side, this is war between two sides trying to prove each other who is the bigger force with WPE dissing first.
I support Matt more because I have genuinely experienced opponents who will try to screw you over your selflessness, and disrespectfully laugh at your face while wearing a naive mask in front of other people.
For you Matt may be the one who is wearing the naive mask.
One question to resolve it all...
Aside SilverLake and Blackrock, how has Matt's decision to give you the right to use WordPress without you specifically paying him a single dime have contributed to your life or business, and then how has WP Engine contributed to your life or business and at what cost? Also how much of the money they charged you went back to the community and the growth of the open-source platform? How much Matt, Blackrock, Automattic has invested into making the tool available to you.
Answer this and you will understand his decision to take legal action against them, and how needed is the suffering that their clients has to go through in order for him to make a point that even though it's not stated anywhere, YOU NEED TO CONTRIBUTE.
And you need to be aware of it yourself, you don't even need to wait for someone to remind you, let alone refuse when they try to nicely remind you of your obligation.
You don't even have to answer it to me if you are feeling like this is going nowhere, answer it to yourself.
Also if you really care about getting your mind straight around this subject and you have the time to do so, take the time to watch the video again after this entire conversation.
Good video :))
Thanks, glad u liked it :)
Matt has acted perhaps in the most naive way possible. I truly hope he learns that not every company can be related with in a nonstandard way. In his interview, he mentions other companies make contributions and do not give him grief.
However, he claimed WPE have been leading him on. Their lack of response to many of the messages he sent, seems to me like the actions of someone trying to string you along like a fool. While staying in the bounds of plausible deniability.
It begs the question of who his partners or assistants are, how come he doesn't have any filter for handling something this important. He seems oblivious to the possibility of loosing his life's work if things turn south.
I don't think there is a possible scenario where things turn south because aside from all the greed that's present in this world, at the very top of the pyramids of power, people with integrity stand still and strong and fight unjust fights as the one Matt is having with WPE.
When you step back and look at the progress that humans can make with selfless contributions, you will understand his decision to make WP open-source is the biggest contribution someone has made in the world of web development, but if you are being taken advantage of for contributing to human advancement and no one does anything about it, you will 100% give up and become selfish, bringing humanity closer to stagnation rather than making progress, and that's why Matt will be protected.
If we want to evolve and progress we can't allow someone's greedy behavior (like WPE) to teach us lessons about how you suffer negative consequences for being selfless, and there are people with power in their hands who understand this, therefore, they will work in the favor of Matt who selflessly shared his life's work and created so many opportunities for so many people.
What you may be calling naive, is Matt's open communication about how he asked them to contribute and then decided to handle them legally when they refused to contribute but he's just being honest about how he is handling things and that's exactly how things work in the world.
There would be no need for a legal system to protect you if humans had evolved beyond greed, and since we are still not there and refuse to respectfully pay homage to those who deserve it, legal action is being taken where applicable.
As someone coming from the streets of the ghetto, I am telling you that the business world is lucky to have the legal system as a way to force people to respect, because in places where the law does not apply, you disrespect someone like that, you are going down for good.
According to the complaint filed by WPE, the first word on this trademark infringement came when they delivered their licensing agreement in September. According to WPE's filing, they were actually engaged in discussions about becoming an official partner for the WooCommerce Hosting program. It's their take on the situation, but every time Matt's been asked to produce an email or document showing that he's been at them for 18 months to clean up their "infringement," he's refused to provide it. At this point, I'll take the word of the official complaint logged in the State of California, not Matt's rambling on some livestream.
I completely understand people choosing to trust an official complaint, especially when it has been designed to turn their focus towards things that arise doubt against the target, but after witnessing the flawed system that we exist in, suffering the consequences of it's flaws when I was young and inexperienced, and then using it's flaws to achieve a desired outcome, I can't trust anything that is labeled legal or official.
Not trying to flip you, just stating my thoughts based on my life experiences.