Do Older Women Make Sense In Fighting Games?
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Fighting games have some of the most diverse sets of characters you can find among video games. We got skeletons, golems, robots, aliens, magical girls, eldritch horrors, and everything in-between. Even among purely human characters, there are men of all shapes and sizes, from young brawlers to ancient kung-fu masters, but what about women? For some reasons, fighting games struggle to age up their existing cast members, or to come up with new ones. On the surface, you might think that this is just another plea for inclusion, but it’s not just that. By locking out a whole set of characters, fighting games limit their own creativity, so let’s briefly talk about this, and why older female characters could be an interesting addition to the fold.
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Positive, negative, either way, what are your thoughts?
Kung fu old woman seems nice
Good video with an original topic. It's nice to see a channel that tackles more niche but nonetheless interesting questions like this.
I for one would be definitely open and curious to see a well done old woman fighter in a fighting game.
Old folks are fine, but hey it's nice to get odd choices once in a while
I wanted to see an old lady in a modern fg.
more than an undrage higschool girl facing expirenced old dudes. so yes.
A person in their 15 already has a Lot of energy to fight and also fighting games are a amagalmation of characters that shouldnt be able to fight against one another so i think It makes sense
The inexperienced new blood crossing paths with the seasoned veteran is peak writing though.
@@ShadalooPlayer Your basic message is valid, but i just want to say that a good number of fighting games have characters who are even younger than 15. While 15 is actually ok. Just didn't happen in SF or TK if that's your major reference. As a quick example, SNK's Fatal Fury, Samurai Shodown, Last Blade and King of Fighters all have at least one literal kid. Sure, they are obviously based on the Kid Goku trope, but that still is a ridiculous idea anyway.
Great video! I think mature women in fighting games don't even have to be super old -- the "visibly a mature woman but still fit and physically strong" sort of person doesn't show up that often. Although I guess we get like, Sindel from MK.
They didn't let Jun get a gray hair in Tekken; she's got to be in her 40s at least, but she looks super young. (to be clear I'm glad she's back)
Both SF and Tekken really missed the opportunity to give their older women some Michelle Yeoh type grace.
Kazuya himself looks quite young. Might be some weird restoration thing or it could be that fighting games don't really want to age anyone up.
@@BlueLightningSky Japanese fg makers particularly have an issue about aging up "average" character up to a certain point, i don't know why. Never saw that topic being addressed by any of those devs in an interview or anything.
Like, if it's a kid sometimes he can grow a little bit in a sequel. If it's an already old guy sometimes he can get older (notably Heihachi in T3). But with the "average" young adult and barely middle aged guy, it looks like the devs are resistant to make them clearly older in looks... and even more resistant about aging the girls up.
And that tends to look gradually weirder as the technology gets much more advanced and can show aging marks competently, but the devs refuses to show the characters in their age "realistically". At least since SF5, T7, etc, the characters should have been represented with more aging marks. Then anime games like GG and KOF it's a different case, it's tricky to show those aging marks.
Also, it's worth noting that it isn't actually super hard to make female characters both old and attractive.
It's kinda like an art hack, but you can use the rule of "every line you draw on a character's face makes them older" to make a character look old, but model most of the rest of her features as a younger character.
That seems too much trouble and making the devs' job actually harder. It should be simple... it's fine when a male elder character is added, he is not expected to be attractive at all. So the dev could just use the same logic and make the female elder. The only problem is that they are afraid of public opinion, afraid of "wasting" a female character slot.
They just needed to stop being cowards and get the work done. Besides, games nowadays end up with huge rosters through waves of yearly dlc updates, so character choices are much less big of a deal compared to 90's and 00's games. Much simpler than all that trouble that you are saying.
My favorite granny from a fg is Nagashapa from Dual Souls The Last Bearer. She is a shaman from Türkiye and fights by cursing her enemies and uses ghosts as jojo stands (she also has a demon flip as dash and backdash)
Hama from Avatar is the most badass grandma to ever exist.
Older woman exist, and some of them fight, both in fiction and in reality. They absolutely make sense in a fighting game. There are only two reasons why we don't see them more often. The same reason innovation is so scarce, and the same reason the AAA gaming industry has devolved into its actual garbage status:
Prejudiced players without imagination, and cowardly executives.
My Tai Chi Chen master is a woman, over 50 years old, slim as a bamboo and equally tall and flexible. I swear to the gods she has better parries than Daigo. Catching her is imposible, she can deflect a falling meteorite.
If you can't visualize how awesome an older lady warrior can be, just think of any Michelle Yeoh's roles from post year 2000. Any of them would be an awesome fighting character, and I will main her for sure.
It's the reason of the "waste" of female slot, using it with an unattractive character, and the fear of the public opinion over that specific "innovation". The fg genre is at its worst period in terms of creativity, so the fg companies' safe game strategy will probably not allow old ladies. Even in the fg golden age in the 90s, old ladies were rare.
Glad to know Power Instinct is mentioned that series needs love but also those old folks are somehow the strongest of the characters in their lore.
Power Instinct must be the prime example when the topic is elders, especially the "average looking elders", not like Heihachi, Gouken, etc.
My favorite “old woman” from games/anime is Genkai from Yuyu Hakusho so yes, they do. 🙌🏼
I also remembered Genkai and was about to mention her in a comment. One of the greatest examples in japanese pop culture. However i must say that's also a symptom of the situation: Genkai was popular and all, but she didn't popularize female elder fighters. Actually there are animes with old female masters who still fight, but they are never as old as Genkai and they are "magically" looking younger like Tsunade in Naruto and Buscuit in Hunter x Hunter.
So it seems the point of using attractive female characters as much as possible is a big deal everywhere, not just fighting games.
I'd love to see a character based on the grannies from Greek mythology, forget the proper name. Have some string attacks and maybe turn the connection to destiny into some conditional curses or counters. For example they hit you with a condition, and if you jump within next X seconds, you won't be able to do special moves or stuff like that. Would love to see more high concept chars in general, instead of yet another remix of same 10 special moves.
The reception to Madame Bo in the cutscenes of Mortal Kombat 1 shows that people would very much welcome a badass grandma in fighting games. Michelle Yeoh was fantastic in Everything, Everywhere, All the Time. It would also be refreshing to have female characters that weren't made to be hot and sexual.
Good point, there's Madame Bo... but i believe the industry is too afraid to try. It's like it was said in the video: it will feel like a waste of female slot. And i believe most of the players will think that way.
Sindel from Mortal Kombat is a strong grandma character in fighting games.
Sindel isn't a grandma at best she's a MILF but the kind you see on the hub where she's like 3-5 years older than her daughter.
She was my first thought. Gray hair, wrinkles and still beutiful.
Would be super wonderful to see and something I've wanted for a long time in the games I play. Once one high profile company gives it a go earnestly, its not hard to imagine we'll see the floodgates open so to speak. We're definitely moving in that direction slowly with more diverse character representation and especially a more diverse FGC.
It's a shame characters like Lidia Sobieska and Jun from Tekken aren't allowed things like wrinkles or grey hair, although, I think there's definitely a charm to older-coded characters who are still fitting beauty standards for those who want a bit of both worlds. The biggest shame to me is that we aren't given older alternatives to supplement those designs too.
Lovely video!
If Heihachi, Gen, or Tung do, then an old lady should too. The devs are just cowards. Marisa is a step in a nice direction, though. Not remotely the same path, but a somewhat adjecent direction, at least.
Time to make a OP grandma for fighting games.
We need so much more diversity in women, by age, body shape, etc.
Thank you for this video
Ya no we don't. Concord literally just failed for dumb looking "diverse" characters
I know that by body type you mean obese.
Very few like that.
Highly disagree. I don't mind a grandma in a fighting game, but this obsession I see online fees very forced to me.
@@kp7505sorry but if that's how you feel about fighting games stay the fuck away. Fighting games should be diverse.
I understand the notion that it can feel forced. But look at athletes and female martial artists in real life they are so varied with a range of body shapes and ages. I think as long as the developers are genuine it's good to have a variety for women.
Why should only men have variety in video games?@@VeronicCassan
Good video, nice to see someone actually tackling the topic.
Yes, fighting games are power fantasies, we can let whoever we want do whatever we want. It's time to like the old women join the fray.
Diversity is fun, and diversity sells. Not by itself, there needs to be a good character there, but a good character that also stands out in body type, shape, language, personality and fighting style all make a roster more fun while appealing to a wider audience.
Personally, I was mad when Kunimitsu 2 was announced. That was not the character I loved, it was a lesser copy of her aesthetic slapped onto a character-type that we have entirely too many of as is. We could have gotten this cool-ass older ninja-woman, slicing throats with deadly precision, but instead we got another anime waifu rolling off the conveyer belt.
I hope Renata Glasc makes it to 2XKO sooner rather than later. If the dev team does her justice, you'll see that an older woman can sell some skins and then some.
Oh, and related to the topic, but have you noticed how the entire internet have gone crazy for Squirrel Girl for being slightly bigger than your average female character? Fighting games may wanna get on that, strike while the iron is hot.
Diversity actually is getting worse in the fg genre since the "bad" kind of diversity, that is controversial, is being pushed by the companies. Like, elders add diversity... especially the "unassuming elder" type, so not like Heihachi and Gouken but like Tung Fu Rue, Chin Gentsai, Shun Di, etc. Also the "teens who don't look like fighters" type is adding diversity as well. And at least, old ladies would also help adding diversity.
Tekken 8 should have added Lady Masako from Ghost of Tsushima as a guest character instead of Clive. Badass old woman samurai right there.
great topic and vid
3:33 EY YOOOO I KNOW THAT MUSIC
Goketsuji in figjtin instincts was a pretty good character. I agree, an old woman would be good in a fighting game.
The only older grandma-esque women characters in fighting games i know off are,
-The power instinct grandma
-Mitsuko from Bloody Roar 1
-Sindel from Mortal Kombat
idk why they are not included more, feel like people have been asking for more older women in fighting games for a while now. Especially in Tekken, it feels like people are kinda getting sick of female characters not aging beyond 25 years old (which especially get ridiculous with characters like Reina, which is supposed to be Jin's Aunt, but looks 10 years younger then him)
Japan had this weird thing where they'd refer to women over 25 (especially the unmarried ones as Christmas Cakes, basically near unwanted because they were up in age. I don't think it's much of a thing anymore, but there's some sexist roots as to why older women are so rare in Eastern games.
@@CryoJnik Yes. The only modern fg that dares to make women look their age is MK. The MK devs have a lot of "taboos" about certain ideas to use in the games, but at least they are not afraid of that one. Only the japanese devs (all companies) are afraid of making the women look their age realistically.
I'm an old school player who started with Street Fighter 2, and i already think about this issue of aging up the characters since from a long time, and some time ago i expected the companies to start toning down those issues and taboos since the own old school fans got in their 30s-40s... but nothing happened so far, the devs are still cowards about that idea.
@@CryoJnik Another point that i just remembered is that even action animes expose that issue in the way that sometimes we see male old masters, but female older masters are very rare. And Tsunade in Naruto is old but she was made to look much younger than her age. And Biscuit in Hunter x Hunter is also old but she was made to look like a little girl. So even some of anime authors made that kind of design decision. (But i have no idea if they were forced by the publisher companies though... that's a whole topic)
Ana in overwatch, compared to the other healers, is slow, lacks mobility and overpowered moves. This translates well to the idea, yes she's hard to pilot, as a grandma would be. Now imagine the skill the grandma has to make things work, because she does.
Ana was famously OP, idk what changed since I last played though.
She is pretty cool too.
@DragoonCenten more heroes came out. And they were younger more attractive female healers.
@@DownBadDad-iz9mp What does this have to do with game balance?
@@DragoonCenten that's for you to find out lil bro.
@@DownBadDad-iz9mp I'm good.
Reality check: Senran Kagura, the series that has a kissing simulator and is about stripping your enemies after defeating them, has an old female playable character while the big fighting games like Tekken, SF, MK don't. Then they ruined it by making her young.
Yeah but Senran Kagura is a huge bait and switch, they lure you in with booba and then hit you with an actually good story and decent gameplay.
I’m actually struggling with this more and more as I get older. TBH in both anime and fighting games (quite a bit of crossover there. Lol) it’s not even the fact that I want to see “old” women or even “old” people I just want to see ADULTS and not f******* teenagers in high school! Lol. Now semantics aside I love that fighting games are acknowledging their characters are getting older and aging them up (Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8) but I’d still like to see more characters (female ones especially) age up into their 40s (even most recent Chun Li is supposed to be in her 30s I believe which is a huge leap but she CAN be older. Lol) I’d say Tekken had the best version of this kind of growth in the first 4 games really seeing the characters age either physically or even emotionally like Nina does from Tekken 2 to 3. Now if anyone knows any anime that stars ACTUAL OLDER CHARACTERS (preferably action ones) I’d love some suggestions. This was very interesting though. I’m glad I stumbled here. Thanks for posting.
How old are you looking for? I have adults, but elderly (outside of support "old mentor" role) is rarer.
The anime hasn't released yet but the Witch Hat Atelier manga has an old female character: Vinanna, The Wise in Principles. She fights too.
@ The exact demographic you said are rarer. Lol. I’m talking a 30 something. Maybe with a family, but literally “older” characters that EXIST OUTSIDE the periphery of a teenage/young “adult” protagonist. Lol
@@nitalukder2108 Question. Is she the main character or a “wise old mentor” to f****** teenager/young “adult”. Lol. Sorry if I sound kinda harsh. I’ve had a staggering realization of the amount of “adults” (especially female protagonists) that are “adults” but still look like teenagers/children getting into VERY ADULT situations. It’s gotten pretty creepy IMHO.
@@khrashingphantom9632 oh, 30 i can think of a few (though 20s is far more common). What i think was pretty much impossible is like senior citizen.
-Seirei no Moribito is excellent and have one of my favorite female protagonist. (she become a sort of surogate mother for the other main character).
-Gangsta stars two men in their 30 (warning, the anime ends on a cliffhanger and there's no season 2)
-Pretty well known so you probably have at least heard about it, but Cowboy Bebop stars a bunch of adult characters (late 20s for Spike, 40s for Jet) who all have already been through a lot at the start of the show and have a generally adult feel to it.
-Coyote Ragtime Show star a grizzled old guy and a young teenage girl looking for the fortune of her late father.
-Onihei stars a married adult with a teenage son and an adoptive daughter.
-Sakugan stars a father daughter duo.
-Ulysse 31. Old school anime, Odysseus, in space, in the future. Ulysses and his son trying to return to earth.
-Not an action show, but Giant Killing is a sport anime focused on adult in a professional team rather than up and coming teenager. The protagonist is the team's coach, in his 30s.
Not action or fighting series but starring parents are: Kakushigoto.
Amaama to Inazuma (in adition to the adult dad and his 5 years old daughter, the third protagonist is a high school girl, though).
Usagi Drop (warning, i have not read the manga but there is a stong consensus in the fandom that you should not read the manga).
Udon no Kuni no Kin`iro Kemari (30 years old guy adopt a yokai child).
Takahashi Rumiko Gekijou (Unconected stories featuring differents characters every episodes, a lot of them working adults with families).
Outside of what you asked, but special mentions for:
Monster, not an action show but a crime drama/ psychological thriller The protagonist starts in his late 20s, but the serie span several years (and is generally as far from the "plucky not-so-ordinary high school student with superpowers" as can be, so it might interest you if you're looking for adult protagonist). Similarly Pluto reimagine an Astro Boy story arc, but switch the viewpoint from the Kid Robot Astro to the 30/40s coded investigator robot Gesicht).
Heike Monogatari (wiewpoint character is a young girl, but all sorts of character of various ages, several of them parents. Warning, this is a tragedy).
Tiger & Bunny: Buddy superhero show with one character in his 20, the other a single dad in his 30 (iirc).
Ristorante Paradiso: age gap romance between a woman in her 20 and a man in his 30s, Most of the cast are mature gentlemen (because the mangaka clearly loves mature men given how many of them appear in her other work ACCA 13 ku kanssatsu ka, the protagonist is a relatively young man of vague age, though, so not what you're looking for).
Uchuu Kyoudai stars a 30 years old enginer and 28 years old astronaut brothers duo.
Imagine a distant Street Fighter sequel where Chun-Li becomes a female Gen.
She's in her 60s rn considering her date of birth in SF2, so that means SF3S isn't in the current year, because she isn't a granny in that one and 3S is the end of the timeline.
@
Fun Fact:
Street Fighter 6 takes place in 2008, a decade after 3rd Strike which takes place in 1998, making Chun-Li a current 40-year-old.
I honestly believe she will be removed from the game before that happen and will be replaced by a student or something. And i also believe the devs will retire Cammy for any random reason just to avoid showing her old looks.
@@carlosaugusto9821
Hopefully that doesn’t happen.
And that Chun-Li would be the next Gen, while Li-Fen would be the next Chun-Li.
@@DragoonCentenincorrect
They have dudes throwing fireballs from their hands.
They had kangaroos and pandas at some point.
So, yeah?
The point is that female characters are a big deal in these games, and that appeal seems to only get stronger in every new game. It's truly a tricky situation nowadays to "waste" a slot on purpose with a grandma and not risky a heavy backlash. Even though i still think the devs are too afraid, but it's not like there's literally no reason behind their way of thinking. It's troublesome to anger the community of a niche game nowadays.
Three foot dinosaur that damages you with its farts?
I have character concept that can work in fighting game.
If old grandpa do, so do old grandma. Though I guess a good part of fighting game community would never really play them.
But their should at least be more which are in 30-40 at least and feel like one
That's aiming too low and basically kills the whole point while doing nothing. Fighting games have guys in advanced age like Gen, Shun, Chin, etc. And i'm even focusing on those who look like skinny and average elders and look like weren't supposed to keep up with the rest of the roster. Heihachi and Gouken are a totally different type.
So it's totally possible to do the same for female elders. It's just that it's a kind of taboo in the japanese companies, it looks like a waste of slot... and there are high chances the fans will think like that.
Cool video
Nyotengu from DOA is 1018 years old. It makes sense.
I don't thing real age is the point, Rachel Alucard is more than 72000 years old (counting the time loops), but it is a loli in the game. the same is valid for Nyotengu.
To some extent you have to think about the satisfaction of fighting against and beating characters, as well as playing as them. Historically, there has been a social stigma against those who attack the elderly in general and old women in particular. You brag about defeating all kinds of tough opponents but if it's someone's Grandma you might not earn the same respect.
I mean, there'll also be a huge stigma against hitting high-school girls or kids, yet there are plenty of the former and some of the later.
It ties down to what is said in the video. A grandma character isn't going to be your regular real life grandma. Hitting a 100 years old man suffering from Leukemia would be despicable irl. Hitting a assassination master who have claimed countless lives and is still able to fight despite his old age and illness doesn't bother anyone in SFIV.
@emperormegaman3856 to my point about bragging about defeating a tough opponent, you are correct. You can't show off that you beat a teenager but the case is different. "Experience should fear the strength of youth." -- Japanese Proverb. This saying points out the natural strength and vitality that young people have, which makes them heroic underdogs in so many stories, and explains the popularity of wanting to play as them.
@@lennywolfe6220 i cited teenagers -girls specifically, teenage boys and young adults are generally *not* seen as vulnerables groups, as the proverb show, which is why they're often the protagonists in fighting series, (meanwhile, until relatively recently it was pretty rare in Japanese media to have female MC in action series outside of magical show, where physical strengh stop being relevant or fanservice panty fighters, which generally have female antagonists as well) as one example-. but the important part was more how characters in Fighting games don't align with reality, meaning that any stigma you'd have against punching a certain category of people like sick old men, children, etc don't really apply in these games. So that's not really why there's no old hags.
@lennywolfe6220 you are moving the goalposts, because the case still remains that beating up a child is despicable in real life, so you shift the question to what people like playing. If we can ignore that beating up a child is despicable in real life because they are fun to play as, then surely you would concede that the same can apply for someone wanting to play an old lady, right?
"But that's not as popular"
Possibilities that storytellers usually ignore tend to be less popular, they are not so cultivated in people's minds, but yes, playing as old women is also less popular. You know what else is less popular? Almost every other category of character. How popular was it to play as a kangaroo before one was in Tekken? Yes, there was the bear Kuma, but while people are entertained by him, he wasn't exactly threatening to become the new main character. Some fighting games even let you play as a dog or something, and you and I both know how reviled abusers of domestic animals are.
So, if your original assertion was true, that must mean there is some sort of cutoff in terms of popularity vs social stigma. Where is it and how do you know that it is there?
my top 3 + suggestions for old hags characters
cat lady: that fight with her cats think like the cat lady from the simpsons with the gameplay of that black goo from blazblue
One of those plushie like Japanese mascots: go crazy. what's the catch? there's an old lady inside and the suit makes it so the wearer can't get hurt+
someone's mom(older side) armed with a chancla: enough said. she may be banned from tournaments for how overpower she is.
Edit: Just bring Granny Goodness from DC Comics into MK and give her a mother-box so she can give the Mister-Miracle's hospitality to the rest of the cast
It's a GAME!Nothing makes sense.;D
does fckin hadouken make sense