8:05 When you were targeting the missiles with the Tomcats, after you select the AIM-54, you can hold down the shift key, and then select multiple targets.
@caseinnitratjr6861 no I don't have a clue sorry I just checked and mine seems to be working fine if you're playing the red side make sure you don't have it set the weapons tight or weapons hold cuz I think if you're on weapons tight it'll only engage missiles
To be fair, it's a little confusing. "Weapons tight" results in ships automatically taking down incoming missiles, so you'd equate that with taking down "incoming threats" as a general rule. Just part of learning Sea Power.
recent patch added an option in settings , ALLOW your ships to fire at enemy ships while FREE FIRE is on , set that to NO , your ships will now only engage enemy aircraft and missiles.
While it seems that it was rarely done for carrier take-offs, the F-14 was capable of a load-out of 6 AIM-54 Phoenix + 2 AIM 9 Sidewinders at the same time. Also, I recall reading (years ago) that the F-14 could track and engage 6 targets with AIM-54 Phoenix simultaneously (i.e. track, designate and fire on 6 targets "at once"). I don't know if Sea Power OR DCS supports this capability - or if it is really true in the first place.
You can actually select up to four targets (8 if you include the sparrows) and the Tomcat will fire all the missiles at different targets. I was testing it against MiG-17s (they have no radar or radar warning receiver lol) and managed to shoot down an entire formation of 8 with one Tomcat. The only issue was the Tomcat needs to keep it's radar on the targets, which means flying directly at them. If you don't start the attack at the maximum range of the Sparrows then the MiGs would see the Tomcat and fly toward it, allowing them to spot the missiles and take evasive action before getting in range to shoot their heat seakers
I did see in this vid a Tomcat ripple off all four AIM-54, an AIM-9, and also guide a AIM-7 in about five seconds. Though that was inside AIM-54 active radar range
The problem with the heavy Phoenix load out is that it would stress the aircraft too much to land with 6 of those so they would have to be jettisoned before landing if not fired. Also, with a full load of Pheonix missiles the Tomcat would be limited in maneuverability while airborne as again the airframe couldn't handle high g load stress of all those enormous missiles.
Hi Cap, don't know if you know but you can launch all aim 54,s in one salvo. Select the missile and then hold shift and select 4 targets. As long as they are all in the radar cone of the F14, all will launch.
The number one thing this game needs is to allow moders to add new models into the game. I want modern Chinese vs modern USA! That would be some epic naval fights
Great video! Dont mind the haters, you did excellent this battle and its really fun to watch you learn and become a master of the 1970s battlespace. Keep it up! Also, if you want a challenge try it from the soviet side cause nato seemed to wipe the floor with you at the helm, wanna see if you can reverse it.
It seems like sea power needs a cursor function of after selecting your air or sea unit you could click and drag-select a group of targets for them to engage. That would have helped a little with the battleship vs torpedo ship battle too i think. Maybe less so(slower targets) Tico...naah she did overkill justice 😂
You can shift click targets and it will engage them. If your unit can engage multiple targets (ie a Tomcat can guide 4 Phoenixes and four sparrows) it will do so. Otherwise it will que the targets and engage them in order.
@@NemoGraynameA8 I believe the poster means the game could really benefit from some features common in real-time strategy games (the best example in my mind). I admit, what I'm going to describe is probably a bit more advanced than the poster had in mind, but I think it would still be pretty useful to expand the user controls to this level of functionality, ultimately making the game feel less "clunky" or awkward and allowing for fast-paced orders, while also retaining the level of specific unit commands currently in the game. Basically, enable the AI to intelligently take group orders based on the type of unit they are and what you order them to do as a group. In fact, enabling this feature could even result in customizable options without Sea Power, per the complexity of interactions, where you can select different desired behaviors based on your preferences within the menu settings (if such a feature were added). As an example, let's say you had three groups of four F-14's on the minimap. The feature would allow the player to go to the minimap, hold their mouse down, and drag the mouse over those units to select all of those aircraft at once, and then perhaps hit a hot key, such as "A" for attack, and after hitting the A key, you could then hold your mouse down again and select a group of enemy units on the minimap (alternatively, just select friendly units and right-click on one enemy unit, which would be a good use when selecting multiple friendly aircraft with bombs/anti-ship missiles or even multiple friendly ships, and you want them all to attack one enemy ship). The result of this action when selecting a group of enemy aircraft would result in your friendly jets moving to get within firing range of those selected enemy jets, and by default, 10 out of 12 of your jets would launch one missile each at the 10 enemy targets. More specifically, if you had 12 aircraft selected against 10 enemy aircraft, this command would result in the 10 best-armed friendly aircraft using the most effective weapon they still had. For illustrative purposes, perhaps 8 of your 12 have AIM-54's left, 2 out of 12 have AIM-7's, and the last 2 out of 12 have AIM-9's; the attack command would result in 8 AIM-54's and 2 AIM-7's being launched at the 10 enemy aircraft. Also, this is what I meant about options. You could implement both simple and complex settings for the player to select from. Perhaps the player wants to change the default action for "Group Attacks" to result in a one-time attack (one missile launched per enemy selected, and then they stop per the example above) or have the default option set to giving your units an order "until they complete the order," where your ordered aircraft would launch a first-salvo of 10 missiles and then continue to engage until all 10 enemy aircraft were eliminated. Perhaps another option where your ordered units will carry out the mission no matter what (unless you give them a specific new order), meaning they will charge aggressively until the enemy selected is eliminated and won't even break off for defensive maneuvers. That is also under the assumption that Sea Power AI will be improved to the point where aircraft combat in general is more realistic and includes having the aircraft fly evasively. By that, I can use DCS as a good example, where detecting an enemy missile launch means you would turn cold (away from the missile) and drop in altitude to dense air, which reduces the effective range of the missile fired at you (greater travel distance and flying through the dense air, decreasing the missile's speed). Other group order keys would be included, with obvious options being "M" for a group movement and the "E" key where you could select friendly fighters, hit "E," and then select your friendly attack/bomber aircraft or even one of your own ships, and those fighter aircraft would then escort/defend the friendly unit selected. There's also the potential for modifiers, where perhaps you can hit "Shift-A" and it orders all friendly units selected to use their most effective weapon against all enemy units selected, but since it's Sea Power, this could mean you select every unit you have, hit Shift-A, select all enemy units on the map, and that results in ships launching anti-ship missiles against enemy ships, aircraft attacking other aircraft, attack/bomber aircraft attacking enemy naval assets/enemy ground units, etc. Finally, another example would be selecting the A key again and then choosing a waypoint rather than specifying enemy units could also be setup to "move to that direction and freely engage all targets detected/within range while heading to that waypoint," which is also a feature common to nearly every RTS game.
They added Pact Enhanced Lethality mod for well obviously the Reds if you are interested, I wonder how will they perform against NATO Enhanced Lethality and vice versa.
@@LuisVasquezMusic the one thing I can think of is that the AI probably won't do as well defending against the Shipwreck barrage as Cap did. the Orel could potentially sink or seriously damage the CV in that first missile wave. otherwise, you do have a good point though. The soviet carrier aircraft anti shipping abilities are far inferior to the US
Best battles are US carrier group vs Soviet group with Kirov missile cruisers and such. Big sunburn missles. I wouldn’t think a Soviet Carrier would be very capable due to the aircraft it possesses
ECM pods still need a re-work. In no way, never, a E6 would be able to deactivate 100% of the radars enemy. At best some 30%ish. This radars are made to overcome exactly this types of ECM internventions. As of now, they are waaaay overpowered.
I am shocked, I looked into thanks to this video. Phoenix missiles were designed to shoot down anti ship missiles! Low and high flying ones. It’s very interesting how carrier centric the US Navy is.
I thought they were to shoot down the bombers? Either way, it was to be used against targets that don't move around too much which is probably why it doesn't do well against fighters.
@ yeah, so what I read was that the phoenix was meant for bombers and their missiles. When you think about it, most missiles don’t maneuver at all. They are just fast. So I suppose the phoenix could hit missiles decently well? Pretty interesting
nice job with this. your proficiency has improved dramatically and it shows. a couple of things you could do to either make the mission more interesting or challenging. for more interesting, launch a SEAD strike against the enemy fleet with, or before the AShM strike. Shrikes can damage the ships themselves, not just the radars. I've seen shrikes sink a smaller frigate or destroyer on their own. For more difficult, you've got a couple Soviet weapons you could add to the fight. You didn't have a Kirov, and I'm not sure if you even had a Slava. either of those in addition to the carrier would make the Soviet AShM onslaught a lot harder to face. Alternatively, you could add a submarine so that you also have to ASW in the middle of defending from AShM. Final option would be to add bombers since those were always an important part of Soviet anti CV strategy.
Also, the S-3s get Harpoons (which they shouldn't yet). I'd love to see an attack with all strike aircraft, just let them go Weapons Free and engage as they want.
ya know what i dont like about seapower ai planes is that they dont dodge aka crank when a missle gets close cause they should and thats why they get taken out 0
Set piece battle where he knows everything that is going to happen and the order it's going to happen in... Loses 90% of a Tomcat squadron. "Now that I'm good at the game, I find it boring."
I don't understand why this game has so much realism in ship types, loadouts, radar and sensors etc...but has a fictional Russian carrier and carrier borne aircraft.
Cap, if you shift click targets with the Tomcat you can fire multiple missiles at different targets. I was testing against MiG-17s (they don't have radar or radar warning recivers) and managed to shoot down an enitre flight of 8 with a aingle tomcat (4 Phoenixs and 4 Sparrows) Also, if you are looking for a challange do asymmetrical battles. Im currently making a scenario where you have two airbases and need to defend oil rigs against a missile cruiser w/ escorts while also dealing with MiG-29s. Im using a modded airbase that doesnt have AWACS so you have to use F-14's instead.
Hi cap! Thank you for another very entertaining video! By the way, I want to ask you if you can check the "Pac enhanced lethality mod"! I was reading the description of that mod and in said that it's similar to NTU but to the soviets, and that it is balanced with NTU. So it would be interesting If you can make videos testing if it is really balanced against NTU. Also there is a mod (SU-24mk on carrier) to add those bombers to Orel, and the antiship missiles they carry (AS-11A kilter) are almost twice faster than the SS-N-22 Sunburn shot by Sovremennys Destroyer. They are sea skimming missiles like the SS-N-22, but a lot faster and deadlier. So they are to OP for the Vanilla game, but it could be interesting to test them against NTU ships.
I’m pretty sure the Kilter is an anti-radiation missile, not quite and anti-ship missile. Does the mod just make the soviet ships better or does it add anything really new?
@@christopherchartier3017 Yes the AS-11 kilter is an anti-radiantion missile, but there is an antiship version called AS-11A. Also if you don't want to add SU-24mk to Orel, there's an other mod that replace the AS-7 of the Ko-45 by the AS-11A, made by the same modder called (Better Ko-45 load out). And the Pact enhanced lethality mod, says this (I haven't try it): "PELT is a mod that seeks to do one thing: give the red side what it deserves. To accomplish this, it brings some late 80's and early 90's systems to the table that arent seen ingame, such as more modern missiles on ships or new loadouts or configurations of existing classes. PELT also modifies many existing stats for the ingame weapon roster to bring it closer in line with reality, instead of using placeholder values. Certain anti ship missiles become a lot scarier, and Soviet SAMs now have more accurate and doctrine-specific uses. This mod is recommended to be played with the NATO side rework mod NTU, located right here! both mods are balanced against each other and should result a somewhat accurately expected result, from historical reports and contemporary simulators." PELT was made by the same modder that made NTU.
@@grimreapersthe directionality of jamming is modelled in game. So when you're pointing the jammer at your ships, their radar is blind from that angle. What you should do is have one prowler 10 miles behind and one 10 miles in front @ 1000 ft and both jamming in the direction of the missiles. This will however blind your ships in the other direction so make sure you have an awacs up behind the rear prowler so you can see if any threats are coming from behind. When jamming offensively, you also have to make sure your prowlers are jamming from the same heading your missiles are coming from. If your prowlers are jamming from the south and the missiles come in from the north, the enemy ships will still be able to detect your missile and fire their defenses.
Never put your jammers pointing along the same axis the attack is coming from. They should be pointing at the attackers to blind them. This gives the local defenses a chance to take them out.
Seekers on missiles are in the nose, not the tail. By putting a jammer along the line of enemy fire, pointing back at your own formation, you blind your own ship's defenses. When you are attacking targets, the jammers don't need to be inside the threat envelope of the ships you are attacking. They are a stand off weapon, usually 30-50 miles behind the attacking force, not out in front. No matter how close they get to the enemy formation, at some point, the jamming is going to get "burned through" and the targets are going to see the incoming missiles. Surface born radar is hundreds of times more potential power as any asset could be in the air. That ship is going to see your missiles even if your Prowler is sitting 200 feet off the port side. All you hope to do with ECM is blind the enemy long enough to keep them from shooting your missiles down at range, to flood close-in defense systems. AWAC should be placed off axis, to give the greatest chance at a large radar cross section. (The side of a plane or missile is much LARGER than the nose of the plane to a radar system.) Your AWAC should probably have been moved to the SSE of the surface formation. (About 50-60 miles out, loitering in a circular pattern, about 10 miles across.) Better yet, do as they did in real life and put the plane in some sort or race track path, moving with the formation. That plane should have had at least one, if not two escorts to provide CAP. You almost lost one because that plane was stationary and didn't have its own dedicated defensive "buddy". Other than your aircraft firing harpoons, what offensive weapons did the formation have to use to flood the command and control of the enemy's defenses? Did you have anything with a Tomahawk? SM-2 or SM-3 in surface mode? Those could have been fired before your assault planes fired the harpoons. Trying to get the incoming from two axis to arrive at roughly the same time. Overwhelm the defenses with a massive attack, just as you did with your final attack on the Carrier, but 15-20 minutes earlier While you were concentrating on DEFENDING the Nimitz and her battle group, you could have been launching offensive strikes at the same time. As confusing as this was for you, it would have been as confusing to the "enemy commander" had you been conducting strikes while defending. (Yeah, I know, the "enemy" is a computer, but it's still possible to overwhelm the defensive resources.) By not launching an attack while prosecuting your defense, you allowed the enemy to fire at least 2 additional attacks against your surface fleet, and also allowed your AWACs to be placed in immediate threat. Some of those enemy threats could have been neutralized without your losses on the F-14's. Some of the enemies would have been burning from your attacks and their threats would be on the bottom of the "North Sea." I get it, this is a game. RL is a lot different, when you have officers in those AWACs able to direct ship/aircraft resources as well as each CIC on each ship. In a "normal" battle fleet, going into "harm's way" each ship would have a designated area of coverage for defense. Fighters would be controlled largely by either the Carrier or the AWAC's. (Depending on the role in which they were launched. CAP controlled by the Carrier's CIC, other assets in the air controlled by AWACs.) The one advantage you have playing a game is the PAUSE button, to simulate having command structure being delegated from a central command and control. What I'm NOT sure about this game is this: Can you assign assets to an AWACs for target and weapon assignment? (Essentially an AI you?) Can you task an F-14 flight to a specific AWACs as their defensive arm, and an A-6 flight with an assigned Prowler as their offensive package, like what would be done in reality? As a Firecontrolman during the '80's and '90's I can assure you that this is how the battlefield's command structure would have been delegated out. Having seen this very thing in multiple "simulations" and "Blue/Orange" games that was the US battle doctrine. My "job" as a Firecontrolman was to put ordinance on target, as assigned by the designated Command and Control asset. (AWACs in the Gulf in '87-'90.) There's just too much coming too fast for a single person to make all the decisions. Again! PAUSE is something we never had IRL. You have it in the game, to simulate all of the different aspects of a working "Command and Control" lacking in a single player game. I would like to see you pause to "switch hats" to engage threats as would have happened in real life. You were making decisions without pausing that as many as 10 people could have been or would be making in a real combat situation. You were reacting, not forcing the enemy to react. That's a good way to lose. Try this same fight again, with the changes I suggested, to see if you can win this with minimal losses. Don't need to post it, just see how it works for you.
I think that in the 80’s that it would be a Soviet SAG, supported by some bomber regiments, and cruise missile submarines. Big coordination mess, but you might try that.
@ Can you set them up in waiting? Sneak one in range while the S2S and Air2Air is going on? As a surface group would probably have an underwater contingent?
Thanks for the video, Cap! I think the difficulty of the game will improve as the quality of the AI improves. If the enemy fleet and fighters used their full capability, I believe it would have been super close, but Sea Power (in its current state) isn't a good game/sim for a pure test of military equipment vs. other military equipment, which has served as good entertainment when it comes to DCS carrier battles. Alternatively, if the AI fired more than the 5x ~20% ASM salvos (realizing their chance to down a full CSG), then stopping all of those missiles fired at the same time is likely very questionable. In the mean time, designing specific missions with many triggered events is the only real way to create a challenge. I also suggest you begin playing some of the user-designed missions on the Steam Workshop, as there are plenty of challenging scenarios. In a general effort to help, I'm going to use this post to list some suggestions (organized by topic) that I hope you find useful. Some of these are based on my own observations, and others are recommendations that others have posted. This isn't your fault or anything, as we all know the AI is so very annoyingly underdeveloped (especially for aircraft), so all we can do is share little tips here and there as we all slowly learn to best manage the AI and work around it together, at least until it is fixed by the developers. On the bright side, last I heard, they were going to really focus on AI improvement per the results of their first community feedback poll, and I think this game has the potential to be one of the best of all time for any military nerds, particularly given the mod potential, which I believe to be beyond amazing. Status Message: As a general rule, I believe you said in an earlier video that you were having trouble getting used to looking at the bottom status message area, but constantly checking that status message is truly the only way to know what their tiny brains are thinking. Based on what I've seen, it doesn't lie and can often be the only method to figure out what's wrong with the AI. Return to Base: Near the end of the air war, many of the jets were being set to weapons free when they had one or two sidewinders or just cannon left, so they didn't do much, and many ended up chasing targets with cannon only to be taken out by enemy AI missiles. Then, when you said "okay, go home," you set them to weapons tight again and a general way point back towards the carrier, but you actually need to right-click on them and use the orders menu to "Return to base" to get them back to the carrier; otherwise they will just head to that waypoint and loiter until they run out of fuel (which will take the whole mission at loiter speeds). Going forward, until the dumb AI is fixed, using return to base should guarantee you have more Tomcats staying alive and eventually landing to re-arm. Carrier Operations (Especially Recovery): I know you don't like most of the current mods, and I get it (I'm not suggesting the NTU mod), but I truly think you should use one mod, which is the "full-capability carrier" mods that work for both the US and Soviet carriers. This allows all carrier elevators to be used and also allows more efficient use of the carriers to recover and launch aircraft simultaneously in an organized "dance" rather than allowing only recovery or launch operations. Currently within the core game, the carriers only use 2 out of 4 elevators and only either perform launch operations or recovery operations, so if you have 14 empty F-14's set to "Return to base" and then decide to launch 10 aircraft, it will launch all 10 aircraft before a single aircraft is recovered (based on my understanding). That, plus the fact the Sea Power recovery operations seem to take a really long time (longer than DCS, for example). Attacking Several Targets with One Aircraft: As someone else mentioned, you should be able to select a Tomcat, select the AIM-54, and then hold the shift key and then select four targets for the AIM-54's to hit. This doesn't work well with AIM-7's though, due to their Fox 1 nature and guiding in one missile at a time, as you likely suspected. One useful strategy for multiple targets and only having the Sparrows and Sidewinders is to launch a Sidewinder first, then a Sparrow, and that's the only method to have an aircraft engage two targets at once when out of Fox 3's. Aircraft Engagement Issues (Altitude & Free-fire): I also noted the AI aircraft have an issue with orders and free fire (at least most of the time) when there's a large altitude difference. For example, you will likely have to manually order their altitude and speed (to afterburner) if you want to engage an aircraft at 30,000 feet when your aircraft is oddly directly below them on the deck and refusing to engage. Then, after the order to climb, selecting a missile to engage the enemy aircraft usually results in your jet going into a steep, fast climb and firing a Sidewinder shortly after (getting into range while also accounting for their vertical distance). Jamming Aircraft Setup: You had your first jammer loitering within your fleet and jamming towards the enemy, which was perfect to cover the terminal defense against incoming missiles. The second jammer was setup a bit ahead of your fleet, but the jamming cone was pointed back to the direction of your fleet, offering only limited extended jamming range. To extend your jamming range further towards the center of the map, what you can do is select the jammer and target the enemy fleet. This sets the direction of your jamming cone, and then once you set his waypoint immediately after (to around 50 NM east of your fleet, for example), he will honor that last order, head to the waypoint selected, and then just loiter with his jamming cone pointed towards the enemy, effectively extending your defensive jamming cone into the middile point of the map.
If the threat is too easy, change the threat. Add more or switch sides and see if you can beat the blues as the reds. If you cannot add more to the reds until you can win, then try again with the blues. this should give you a much better idea of balancing the forces in the game.
Here's your next challenge: play as the USSR group and try to take down the NATO group. The science being, how much effect does player micromanagement have on outcome?
@ no cap there radars are forward facing you can’t jam them from behind better to point the jammers towards the incoming so it takes longer to lock on. I’m interested to know if you can jam your own ships also great video love these.
Dating advice: if you can't micro manage a full carrier-based battle, I'm not buying you dinner! I usually report bots as Spam but they come back instantly.
The number of times you were like "what are you doing?" and give new orders to an F14 whose status already said they were "Engaging track 7xxx with AIM54/7" Remember the Sparrows, and even teh Phoenix in the first phase of their flights, are Semi-Active Radar Homing... in other words they're guided by the launch aircrafts radar, so the Tom launches, and HAS to keep flying at the target (or at least keep it within a certain arc of their radar) to guide the missile in. If you give them a new order... you just wasted that missile as it goes dumb... That and it seemed that after the first wave of missiles, you were telling the Tomcats to engage targets kind of randomly. I swear you clicked on targets to engage that already had weapons shot at them Also when you launched your first flights of Toms, and you put them on Air Search Radar on, and Air Defense Weapons Free... but then sent the follow on flights on EMCON and Weapons Tight to try and dogfight later waves....
Hearing Cap yell "Rim him!!" is the best part of that video hands down...
8:05 When you were targeting the missiles with the Tomcats, after you select the AIM-54, you can hold down the shift key, and then select multiple targets.
Really? Thx for the Info.
Btw…the sa-10/s-300 doesn't work. They won't shoot. You have a clue?
@@caseinnitratjr6861Maybe another glitch, game still feels a little wonky
@caseinnitratjr6861 no I don't have a clue sorry
I just checked and mine seems to be working fine if you're playing the red side make sure you don't have it set the weapons tight or weapons hold cuz I think if you're on weapons tight it'll only engage missiles
Thanks Bob will try that next time.
@@caseinnitratjr6861 Hold down shift for laying sonar buoys waypoints also
Great effort with this one Cap, your getting much better at controlling your fleet thanks very much.
It appears I did a thing.
Sitting there with all the ships weapons tight, complaining they won’t shoot down the MiGs…
To be fair, it's a little confusing. "Weapons tight" results in ships automatically taking down incoming missiles, so you'd equate that with taking down "incoming threats" as a general rule. Just part of learning Sea Power.
recent patch added an option in settings , ALLOW your ships to fire at enemy ships while FREE FIRE is on , set that to NO , your ships will now only engage enemy aircraft and missiles.
@@orsonincharge4879 Nice, thanks.
Good one, thanks. Fun to watch you working so hard managing the battle.
Conquered the situation like a BOSS... great job CAP! :)
While it seems that it was rarely done for carrier take-offs, the F-14 was capable of a load-out of 6 AIM-54 Phoenix + 2 AIM 9 Sidewinders at the same time. Also, I recall reading (years ago) that the F-14 could track and engage 6 targets with AIM-54 Phoenix simultaneously (i.e. track, designate and fire on 6 targets "at once"). I don't know if Sea Power OR DCS supports this capability - or if it is really true in the first place.
You can actually select up to four targets (8 if you include the sparrows) and the Tomcat will fire all the missiles at different targets.
I was testing it against MiG-17s (they have no radar or radar warning receiver lol) and managed to shoot down an entire formation of 8 with one Tomcat.
The only issue was the Tomcat needs to keep it's radar on the targets, which means flying directly at them. If you don't start the attack at the maximum range of the Sparrows then the MiGs would see the Tomcat and fly toward it, allowing them to spot the missiles and take evasive action before getting in range to shoot their heat seakers
There is a load out option that does include 6 Phoenix missiles per plane and I believe they can TWS them off but I haven't tested it
I did see in this vid a Tomcat ripple off all four AIM-54, an AIM-9, and also guide a AIM-7 in about five seconds. Though that was inside AIM-54 active radar range
The problem with the heavy Phoenix load out is that it would stress the aircraft too much to land with 6 of those so they would have to be jettisoned before landing if not fired. Also, with a full load of Pheonix missiles the Tomcat would be limited in maneuverability while airborne as again the airframe couldn't handle high g load stress of all those enormous missiles.
Hi Cap, don't know if you know but you can launch all aim 54,s in one salvo. Select the missile and then hold shift and select 4 targets. As long as they are all in the radar cone of the F14, all will launch.
The number one thing this game needs is to allow moders to add new models into the game. I want modern Chinese vs modern USA! That would be some epic naval fights
Great video! Dont mind the haters, you did excellent this battle and its really fun to watch you learn and become a master of the 1970s battlespace. Keep it up! Also, if you want a challenge try it from the soviet side cause nato seemed to wipe the floor with you at the helm, wanna see if you can reverse it.
It seems like sea power needs a cursor function of after selecting your air or sea unit you could click and drag-select a group of targets for them to engage. That would have helped a little with the battleship vs torpedo ship battle too i think. Maybe less so(slower targets) Tico...naah she did overkill justice 😂
You can shift click targets and it will engage them. If your unit can engage multiple targets (ie a Tomcat can guide 4 Phoenixes and four sparrows) it will do so. Otherwise it will que the targets and engage them in order.
@@NemoGraynameA8 I believe the poster means the game could really benefit from some features common in real-time strategy games (the best example in my mind). I admit, what I'm going to describe is probably a bit more advanced than the poster had in mind, but I think it would still be pretty useful to expand the user controls to this level of functionality, ultimately making the game feel less "clunky" or awkward and allowing for fast-paced orders, while also retaining the level of specific unit commands currently in the game.
Basically, enable the AI to intelligently take group orders based on the type of unit they are and what you order them to do as a group. In fact, enabling this feature could even result in customizable options without Sea Power, per the complexity of interactions, where you can select different desired behaviors based on your preferences within the menu settings (if such a feature were added).
As an example, let's say you had three groups of four F-14's on the minimap. The feature would allow the player to go to the minimap, hold their mouse down, and drag the mouse over those units to select all of those aircraft at once, and then perhaps hit a hot key, such as "A" for attack, and after hitting the A key, you could then hold your mouse down again and select a group of enemy units on the minimap (alternatively, just select friendly units and right-click on one enemy unit, which would be a good use when selecting multiple friendly aircraft with bombs/anti-ship missiles or even multiple friendly ships, and you want them all to attack one enemy ship).
The result of this action when selecting a group of enemy aircraft would result in your friendly jets moving to get within firing range of those selected enemy jets, and by default, 10 out of 12 of your jets would launch one missile each at the 10 enemy targets. More specifically, if you had 12 aircraft selected against 10 enemy aircraft, this command would result in the 10 best-armed friendly aircraft using the most effective weapon they still had. For illustrative purposes, perhaps 8 of your 12 have AIM-54's left, 2 out of 12 have AIM-7's, and the last 2 out of 12 have AIM-9's; the attack command would result in 8 AIM-54's and 2 AIM-7's being launched at the 10 enemy aircraft.
Also, this is what I meant about options. You could implement both simple and complex settings for the player to select from. Perhaps the player wants to change the default action for "Group Attacks" to result in a one-time attack (one missile launched per enemy selected, and then they stop per the example above) or have the default option set to giving your units an order "until they complete the order," where your ordered aircraft would launch a first-salvo of 10 missiles and then continue to engage until all 10 enemy aircraft were eliminated.
Perhaps another option where your ordered units will carry out the mission no matter what (unless you give them a specific new order), meaning they will charge aggressively until the enemy selected is eliminated and won't even break off for defensive maneuvers. That is also under the assumption that Sea Power AI will be improved to the point where aircraft combat in general is more realistic and includes having the aircraft fly evasively. By that, I can use DCS as a good example, where detecting an enemy missile launch means you would turn cold (away from the missile) and drop in altitude to dense air, which reduces the effective range of the missile fired at you (greater travel distance and flying through the dense air, decreasing the missile's speed).
Other group order keys would be included, with obvious options being "M" for a group movement and the "E" key where you could select friendly fighters, hit "E," and then select your friendly attack/bomber aircraft or even one of your own ships, and those fighter aircraft would then escort/defend the friendly unit selected.
There's also the potential for modifiers, where perhaps you can hit "Shift-A" and it orders all friendly units selected to use their most effective weapon against all enemy units selected, but since it's Sea Power, this could mean you select every unit you have, hit Shift-A, select all enemy units on the map, and that results in ships launching anti-ship missiles against enemy ships, aircraft attacking other aircraft, attack/bomber aircraft attacking enemy naval assets/enemy ground units, etc.
Finally, another example would be selecting the A key again and then choosing a waypoint rather than specifying enemy units could also be setup to "move to that direction and freely engage all targets detected/within range while heading to that waypoint," which is also a feature common to nearly every RTS game.
They added Pact Enhanced Lethality mod for well obviously the Reds if you are interested, I wonder how will they perform against NATO Enhanced Lethality and vice versa.
Again, but playing as the Orel?
Would love to see that
Ok
@@grimreapers Yeah, since we know Americans have the advantage it would be cool if it was reversed and you had the handicap.
@@LuisVasquezMusic the one thing I can think of is that the AI probably won't do as well defending against the Shipwreck barrage as Cap did. the Orel could potentially sink or seriously damage the CV in that first missile wave. otherwise, you do have a good point though. The soviet carrier aircraft anti shipping abilities are far inferior to the US
It doens't really have a credible anti-shipping force though, the aircraft anti-ship missiles have very short range
Best battles are US carrier group vs Soviet group with Kirov missile cruisers and such. Big sunburn missles. I wouldn’t think a Soviet Carrier would be very capable due to the aircraft it possesses
ECM pods still need a re-work. In no way, never, a E6 would be able to deactivate 100% of the radars enemy. At best some 30%ish. This radars are made to overcome exactly this types of ECM internventions. As of now, they are waaaay overpowered.
Your absolutely right, mainly because jamming is not the mission of the E-6 their mission is TACAMO
@@RedBeardTheFirst Literally lol'd. If you know you know I suppose.
@@theiracible9993 should i of pointed out that a Boeing 707 based airframe would find it impossible to operate from a carrier instead?
@@RedBeardTheFirst EA-6 Prowler, happy now?
incredible concentration, yet Cap produces another absolutely awesome vid
The helicopters that kept flying at you have a radar right? I wonder if they were trying to be a backup AEW/AWACS?
The AI does use the helicopter radar as a ln AWACS. They'll put the helicopters out at 10,000 feet in a circle around their group as they move
@@NemoGraynameA8I doubt they’d be as powerful as a normal AEWAC plane like a Hawkeye though, much smaller radars
British Royal Navy had a dedicated AEW version of the Sea King helicopter, so your idea seems possible.
I am shocked, I looked into thanks to this video. Phoenix missiles were designed to shoot down anti ship missiles! Low and high flying ones. It’s very interesting how carrier centric the US Navy is.
I thought they were to shoot down the bombers?
Either way, it was to be used against targets that don't move around too much which is probably why it doesn't do well against fighters.
@ yeah, so what I read was that the phoenix was meant for bombers and their missiles. When you think about it, most missiles don’t maneuver at all. They are just fast. So I suppose the phoenix could hit missiles decently well? Pretty interesting
A missile is just a small plane, and has less/no ECM gear.
nice job with this. your proficiency has improved dramatically and it shows. a couple of things you could do to either make the mission more interesting or challenging. for more interesting, launch a SEAD strike against the enemy fleet with, or before the AShM strike. Shrikes can damage the ships themselves, not just the radars. I've seen shrikes sink a smaller frigate or destroyer on their own. For more difficult, you've got a couple Soviet weapons you could add to the fight. You didn't have a Kirov, and I'm not sure if you even had a Slava. either of those in addition to the carrier would make the Soviet AShM onslaught a lot harder to face. Alternatively, you could add a submarine so that you also have to ASW in the middle of defending from AShM. Final option would be to add bombers since those were always an important part of Soviet anti CV strategy.
Also, the S-3s get Harpoons (which they shouldn't yet). I'd love to see an attack with all strike aircraft, just let them go Weapons Free and engage as they want.
How about playing as the Russian Admiral next time. It may present more of a challenge?
Simpson meme with back of the head slap: "THAT is how you do a missile swarm"
Hey cap video idea could you do one on the effectiveness of jamming. Air vs ships based jamming etc
ya know what i dont like about seapower ai planes is that they dont dodge aka crank when a missle gets close cause they should and thats why they get taken out 0
i think once more mods come in sea power will be appealing again also i think you should let the ai do everything and see what happens :)
Set piece battle where he knows everything that is going to happen and the order it's going to happen in... Loses 90% of a Tomcat squadron.
"Now that I'm good at the game, I find it boring."
I don't understand why this game has so much realism in ship types, loadouts, radar and sensors etc...but has a fictional Russian carrier and carrier borne aircraft.
For balance, obviously
Can you turn down the volume 0f the game? Quite distracting.
Yeah the engine noises are way too loud
Cap, if you shift click targets with the Tomcat you can fire multiple missiles at different targets. I was testing against MiG-17s (they don't have radar or radar warning recivers) and managed to shoot down an enitre flight of 8 with a aingle tomcat (4 Phoenixs and 4 Sparrows)
Also, if you are looking for a challange do asymmetrical battles. Im currently making a scenario where you have two airbases and need to defend oil rigs against a missile cruiser w/ escorts while also dealing with MiG-29s. Im using a modded airbase that doesnt have AWACS so you have to use F-14's instead.
Thanks!
Hi cap! Thank you for another very entertaining video! By the way, I want to ask you if you can check the "Pac enhanced lethality mod"! I was reading the description of that mod and in said that it's similar to NTU but to the soviets, and that it is balanced with NTU. So it would be interesting If you can make videos testing if it is really balanced against NTU. Also there is a mod (SU-24mk on carrier) to add those bombers to Orel, and the antiship missiles they carry (AS-11A kilter) are almost twice faster than the SS-N-22 Sunburn shot by Sovremennys Destroyer. They are sea skimming missiles like the SS-N-22, but a lot faster and deadlier. So they are to OP for the Vanilla game, but it could be interesting to test them against NTU ships.
I’m pretty sure the Kilter is an anti-radiation missile, not quite and anti-ship missile.
Does the mod just make the soviet ships better or does it add anything really new?
Roger will investigate when I get a chance thanks.
@@christopherchartier3017 Yes the AS-11 kilter is an anti-radiantion missile, but there is an antiship version called AS-11A. Also if you don't want to add SU-24mk to Orel, there's an other mod that replace the AS-7 of the Ko-45 by the AS-11A, made by the same modder called (Better Ko-45 load out).
And the Pact enhanced lethality mod, says this (I haven't try it):
"PELT is a mod that seeks to do one thing: give the red side what it deserves.
To accomplish this, it brings some late 80's and early 90's systems to the table that arent seen ingame, such as more modern missiles on ships or new loadouts or configurations of existing classes.
PELT also modifies many existing stats for the ingame weapon roster to bring it closer in line with reality, instead of using placeholder values. Certain anti ship missiles become a lot scarier, and Soviet SAMs now have more accurate and doctrine-specific uses.
This mod is recommended to be played with the NATO side rework mod NTU, located right here!
both mods are balanced against each other and should result a somewhat accurately expected result, from historical reports and contemporary simulators."
PELT was made by the same modder that made NTU.
@ dope, thanks!
The helicopter is trying to defect!
What a frenzy! Just one question, why were you blinding your own ships?
I thought that's how you blind the red missiles in the terminal phase?
@@grimreapersthe directionality of jamming is modelled in game. So when you're pointing the jammer at your ships, their radar is blind from that angle.
What you should do is have one prowler 10 miles behind and one 10 miles in front @ 1000 ft and both jamming in the direction of the missiles. This will however blind your ships in the other direction so make sure you have an awacs up behind the rear prowler so you can see if any threats are coming from behind.
When jamming offensively, you also have to make sure your prowlers are jamming from the same heading your missiles are coming from. If your prowlers are jamming from the south and the missiles come in from the north, the enemy ships will still be able to detect your missile and fire their defenses.
Never put your jammers pointing along the same axis the attack is coming from. They should be pointing at the attackers to blind them. This gives the local defenses a chance to take them out.
Seekers on missiles are in the nose, not the tail. By putting a jammer along the line of enemy fire, pointing back at your own formation, you blind your own ship's defenses.
When you are attacking targets, the jammers don't need to be inside the threat envelope of the ships you are attacking. They are a stand off weapon, usually 30-50 miles behind the attacking force, not out in front. No matter how close they get to the enemy formation, at some point, the jamming is going to get "burned through" and the targets are going to see the incoming missiles. Surface born radar is hundreds of times more potential power as any asset could be in the air. That ship is going to see your missiles even if your Prowler is sitting 200 feet off the port side. All you hope to do with ECM is blind the enemy long enough to keep them from shooting your missiles down at range, to flood close-in defense systems.
AWAC should be placed off axis, to give the greatest chance at a large radar cross section. (The side of a plane or missile is much LARGER than the nose of the plane to a radar system.) Your AWAC should probably have been moved to the SSE of the surface formation. (About 50-60 miles out, loitering in a circular pattern, about 10 miles across.) Better yet, do as they did in real life and put the plane in some sort or race track path, moving with the formation. That plane should have had at least one, if not two escorts to provide CAP. You almost lost one because that plane was stationary and didn't have its own dedicated defensive "buddy".
Other than your aircraft firing harpoons, what offensive weapons did the formation have to use to flood the command and control of the enemy's defenses? Did you have anything with a Tomahawk? SM-2 or SM-3 in surface mode? Those could have been fired before your assault planes fired the harpoons. Trying to get the incoming from two axis to arrive at roughly the same time. Overwhelm the defenses with a massive attack, just as you did with your final attack on the Carrier, but 15-20 minutes earlier
While you were concentrating on DEFENDING the Nimitz and her battle group, you could have been launching offensive strikes at the same time. As confusing as this was for you, it would have been as confusing to the "enemy commander" had you been conducting strikes while defending. (Yeah, I know, the "enemy" is a computer, but it's still possible to overwhelm the defensive resources.) By not launching an attack while prosecuting your defense, you allowed the enemy to fire at least 2 additional attacks against your surface fleet, and also allowed your AWACs to be placed in immediate threat. Some of those enemy threats could have been neutralized without your losses on the F-14's. Some of the enemies would have been burning from your attacks and their threats would be on the bottom of the "North Sea."
I get it, this is a game. RL is a lot different, when you have officers in those AWACs able to direct ship/aircraft resources as well as each CIC on each ship. In a "normal" battle fleet, going into "harm's way" each ship would have a designated area of coverage for defense. Fighters would be controlled largely by either the Carrier or the AWAC's. (Depending on the role in which they were launched. CAP controlled by the Carrier's CIC, other assets in the air controlled by AWACs.) The one advantage you have playing a game is the PAUSE button, to simulate having command structure being delegated from a central command and control.
What I'm NOT sure about this game is this: Can you assign assets to an AWACs for target and weapon assignment? (Essentially an AI you?) Can you task an F-14 flight to a specific AWACs as their defensive arm, and an A-6 flight with an assigned Prowler as their offensive package, like what would be done in reality? As a Firecontrolman during the '80's and '90's I can assure you that this is how the battlefield's command structure would have been delegated out. Having seen this very thing in multiple "simulations" and "Blue/Orange" games that was the US battle doctrine. My "job" as a Firecontrolman was to put ordinance on target, as assigned by the designated Command and Control asset. (AWACs in the Gulf in '87-'90.) There's just too much coming too fast for a single person to make all the decisions.
Again! PAUSE is something we never had IRL. You have it in the game, to simulate all of the different aspects of a working "Command and Control" lacking in a single player game. I would like to see you pause to "switch hats" to engage threats as would have happened in real life. You were making decisions without pausing that as many as 10 people could have been or would be making in a real combat situation. You were reacting, not forcing the enemy to react. That's a good way to lose.
Try this same fight again, with the changes I suggested, to see if you can win this with minimal losses. Don't need to post it, just see how it works for you.
I think that in the 80’s that it would be a Soviet SAG, supported by some bomber regiments, and cruise missile submarines. Big coordination mess, but you might try that.
I just clicked. Hope you got the Combat distance Right this time.
I think you have got to grips with air and missile battles may be to add subs into the mix as well?
Problem is, they are no use in these battles: they take 5 hours to cover the 150 miles, by which time the battle is over.
@ Can you set them up in waiting? Sneak one in range while the S2S and Air2Air is going on? As a surface group would probably have an underwater contingent?
Thanks for the video, Cap!
I think the difficulty of the game will improve as the quality of the AI improves. If the enemy fleet and fighters used their full capability, I believe it would have been super close, but Sea Power (in its current state) isn't a good game/sim for a pure test of military equipment vs. other military equipment, which has served as good entertainment when it comes to DCS carrier battles.
Alternatively, if the AI fired more than the 5x ~20% ASM salvos (realizing their chance to down a full CSG), then stopping all of those missiles fired at the same time is likely very questionable. In the mean time, designing specific missions with many triggered events is the only real way to create a challenge. I also suggest you begin playing some of the user-designed missions on the Steam Workshop, as there are plenty of challenging scenarios.
In a general effort to help, I'm going to use this post to list some suggestions (organized by topic) that I hope you find useful. Some of these are based on my own observations, and others are recommendations that others have posted. This isn't your fault or anything, as we all know the AI is so very annoyingly underdeveloped (especially for aircraft), so all we can do is share little tips here and there as we all slowly learn to best manage the AI and work around it together, at least until it is fixed by the developers.
On the bright side, last I heard, they were going to really focus on AI improvement per the results of their first community feedback poll, and I think this game has the potential to be one of the best of all time for any military nerds, particularly given the mod potential, which I believe to be beyond amazing.
Status Message: As a general rule, I believe you said in an earlier video that you were having trouble getting used to looking at the bottom status message area, but constantly checking that status message is truly the only way to know what their tiny brains are thinking. Based on what I've seen, it doesn't lie and can often be the only method to figure out what's wrong with the AI.
Return to Base: Near the end of the air war, many of the jets were being set to weapons free when they had one or two sidewinders or just cannon left, so they didn't do much, and many ended up chasing targets with cannon only to be taken out by enemy AI missiles. Then, when you said "okay, go home," you set them to weapons tight again and a general way point back towards the carrier, but you actually need to right-click on them and use the orders menu to "Return to base" to get them back to the carrier; otherwise they will just head to that waypoint and loiter until they run out of fuel (which will take the whole mission at loiter speeds). Going forward, until the dumb AI is fixed, using return to base should guarantee you have more Tomcats staying alive and eventually landing to re-arm.
Carrier Operations (Especially Recovery): I know you don't like most of the current mods, and I get it (I'm not suggesting the NTU mod), but I truly think you should use one mod, which is the "full-capability carrier" mods that work for both the US and Soviet carriers. This allows all carrier elevators to be used and also allows more efficient use of the carriers to recover and launch aircraft simultaneously in an organized "dance" rather than allowing only recovery or launch operations. Currently within the core game, the carriers only use 2 out of 4 elevators and only either perform launch operations or recovery operations, so if you have 14 empty F-14's set to "Return to base" and then decide to launch 10 aircraft, it will launch all 10 aircraft before a single aircraft is recovered (based on my understanding). That, plus the fact the Sea Power recovery operations seem to take a really long time (longer than DCS, for example).
Attacking Several Targets with One Aircraft: As someone else mentioned, you should be able to select a Tomcat, select the AIM-54, and then hold the shift key and then select four targets for the AIM-54's to hit. This doesn't work well with AIM-7's though, due to their Fox 1 nature and guiding in one missile at a time, as you likely suspected. One useful strategy for multiple targets and only having the Sparrows and Sidewinders is to launch a Sidewinder first, then a Sparrow, and that's the only method to have an aircraft engage two targets at once when out of Fox 3's.
Aircraft Engagement Issues (Altitude & Free-fire): I also noted the AI aircraft have an issue with orders and free fire (at least most of the time) when there's a large altitude difference. For example, you will likely have to manually order their altitude and speed (to afterburner) if you want to engage an aircraft at 30,000 feet when your aircraft is oddly directly below them on the deck and refusing to engage. Then, after the order to climb, selecting a missile to engage the enemy aircraft usually results in your jet going into a steep, fast climb and firing a Sidewinder shortly after (getting into range while also accounting for their vertical distance).
Jamming Aircraft Setup: You had your first jammer loitering within your fleet and jamming towards the enemy, which was perfect to cover the terminal defense against incoming missiles. The second jammer was setup a bit ahead of your fleet, but the jamming cone was pointed back to the direction of your fleet, offering only limited extended jamming range. To extend your jamming range further towards the center of the map, what you can do is select the jammer and target the enemy fleet. This sets the direction of your jamming cone, and then once you set his waypoint immediately after (to around 50 NM east of your fleet, for example), he will honor that last order, head to the waypoint selected, and then just loiter with his jamming cone pointed towards the enemy, effectively extending your defensive jamming cone into the middile point of the map.
Now it’s time to play as the reds
No S-3 Vikings? They can sling Harpoons to.
Can you do blue vs blue?
ruclips.net/video/lF7V6UgWK8w/видео.html
Shouldn’t you have send a few attackers early on?
If the threat is too easy, change the threat. Add more or switch sides and see if you can beat the blues as the reds. If you cannot add more to the reds until you can win, then try again with the blues. this should give you a much better idea of balancing the forces in the game.
Here's your next challenge: play as the USSR group and try to take down the NATO group.
The science being, how much effect does player micromanagement have on outcome?
Cap why are you Jamming towards your fleet?
I thought that's how you blind the red missiles in the terminal phase?
@ no cap there radars are forward facing you can’t jam them from behind better to point the jammers towards the incoming so it takes longer to lock on. I’m interested to know if you can jam your own ships also great video love these.
Game needs more missions.
Legacy Hornets?
Not in the game for some reason
Good vid that Cap.
Holy bots
Same bot bots, every time, every video. Whish cap could send a onyx next day air mail to them😂
@ good lawd 😭
Dating advice: if you can't micro manage a full carrier-based battle, I'm not buying you dinner!
I usually report bots as Spam but they come back instantly.
do the same but try to control the Soviet fleet, the AI doesn't seem to be doing good calls on the assets
It doesn't know how to use carriers yet it seems
Ok will try swapping to the soviet side.
31:22 Exactly .
Hes edging closer !
first an awacs then tomcats
The number of times you were like "what are you doing?" and give new orders to an F14 whose status already said they were "Engaging track 7xxx with AIM54/7" Remember the Sparrows, and even teh Phoenix in the first phase of their flights, are Semi-Active Radar Homing... in other words they're guided by the launch aircrafts radar, so the Tom launches, and HAS to keep flying at the target (or at least keep it within a certain arc of their radar) to guide the missile in. If you give them a new order... you just wasted that missile as it goes dumb...
That and it seemed that after the first wave of missiles, you were telling the Tomcats to engage targets kind of randomly. I swear you clicked on targets to engage that already had weapons shot at them
Also when you launched your first flights of Toms, and you put them on Air Search Radar on, and Air Defense Weapons Free... but then sent the follow on flights on EMCON and Weapons Tight to try and dogfight later waves....
I’m not too sure you are allowed to call people “nerds” when you play computer games and make videos about it lol
stop terorussia