I appreciate the safety factors of using the yellow wire and painting the stakes on top, in hopes people, kids, or animals don't walk or run into them. Good idea!
Interesting how many slang variations there are for items in my line of work it was called a "cobrahead" but then again we like eating crayons as well.
I'd like to see on-air determinations w/ NVIS range. You guys show the mechanics but not the results. Who's on the far-end and how far away are they..?
I stated with almost this exact setup, and could not get the SWR I was hoping for. On 80 meters, I have to get the feed point much higher in the air. I also suspect the angle at which the two sides of the dipole are relative to each other (flat dipole >>> inverted V) further reduces the impedance to a more desirable level. I would like to see an analyzer applied to this setup. I can't imagine this working without a serious tuner.
Do these have to be low to the ground? My ridges of my roof is a giant cross. Can i stretch an antenna like this out permanently 35ft up on the ridge of my roof?
i was thinking, wow, this guy has got an amazing garden - then i saw the people walking thru it in the background :D great that the local laws/council allow a antenna in a public park, and with poles in the ground lol
Tim questions: 1. Can the wire touch the tree branches if I put it through the trees? 2. Does it have an exact height off the ground or does it matter how high I put it? Thanks
Great video. Thanks. Can you get a banana plug with an SO239 connection instead of a BNC? And does it make a difference? All my coax is has PL 259 ends.
The adapter you use in your instructional video 80 meters NVIS Anthenna. Where can I find / order / buy it? Kind regards from the Netherlands Jan PA11434
Does the person your talking to need the same antenna ? Also, most users recommend a "reflector" laying on the ground. Using the same math used for a "beam" or Corner reflector, the reflector would be about 5% longer.
@californiakayaker N6GRG - I have no intention of starting a quarrel, but the comments from Grey Ghost are not entirely reliable, here and elsewhere on the comments for this video. Antenna orientation *normally* has a significant impact on the exchange between 2 stations. Depending on what you are doing and trying to do, I would recommend getting a little more information than just a "no".
@@user-ss6zt2mo1l Remember it needs to go up & bounce back.... the higher freq's may not bounce depending on atmospheric conditions. And the goal here is "short" rather than long :)
Most of the time 80 meters is below the Maximum Usable Frequency (MUF) at night, allowing the signal to go straight up and reflect straight back down (NVIS). 40 meters will work the same way most of the time in the day, but where I live, this time of year, this part of the solar cycle, anything above 80 meters has a high probability of passing right through the ionosphere at this angle (theoretically). Not about going further, it's about a reliable regional net (~300 mile radius?) - where terrain has no impact.
I worked 7.251 mtrs daily in the mornings with coverage over the entire southeast US from south Alabama. My NVIS dipole was at eleven feet the entire length under an oak tree oriented SW to NE. Feedline was at 90 degrees for close to 25 feet. Worked Into Spain and France fairly often in the evening but conditions were favorable. NVIS is great for regional comms.
Does it work? Do you need a tuner? I thought it was a great video... as far as it went, but seeing how it performed would have been most helpful. Kinda like me doing a video of how to butcher and dress out a turkey, but only show a live turkey out in the pasture. Just sayin'. I'm designing an NVIS antenna that is built inside a 50-gallon steel barrel. Aiming the open end of the barrel should direct the powerful beams of energy in one focused direction. I drew my inspiration from "This Island Earth"... a 1950's documentary on the work of Gort and Exeter.
Nice video Tim, but ... how can you orient the vertical incidence about 90 degrees over layer F2 with a horizontal dipole to the ground?!? Show us! 73 fr Jose
Thanks for the vid Tim. I allways have to tell hams "what is NVIS..."-they still dont know.. rgds fm owner of NVIS beacon OV1BCN in Denmark. vy73 de Lars oz1fjb - ou2v
You hear extremely colourful conversation on 80 meters. Anything goes there. Call signs are seldom heard. Forget language that will make a sailor blush, it will make a sailor puke. It is the wild west of the amateur radio world. It sort of sounds like the CB band of yesteryear before CB cleaned itself up. Anybody can talk there whether they have band privileges there or not, or even if not licensed. Nobody cares what goes on there. Strangely, if you hear the same operators on 2 meters, they are by the book. Then later that night, after a few beers, margaritas, whisky shots, and taste testing their moonshine, they go to 80 meters and start yelling at each other, singing, whistling, fighting, and talking over each other. It really is like a wild west saloon. I guess it is the comedy band.
@Derek Rader I must admit, it is very interesting to listen to it. What bothers me is the lack of callsign a lot. I am not an amateur radio operated. But I believe there is a requirement to identify the transmitting station every ten minutes. Some of the transmissions are quite, inebriated, colourful, and unrestrained, but there is always an identifying call sign given. Others are just the same but no callsign is given. Perhaps they sed unlicensed operators. I guess that is the way the fringe radio operators get inspired to get their license so they can babble while drunk and not get in trouble. 40 meters has a subdued version of late night comedy time. But 80 is definitly the wild west of amateur radio. It reminds me of what Citizen's Band used to be in the 1980s and early 1990s before it cleaned itself up. Maybe I will frigure a way to get on someday and just use my old CB radio callsign, KBX1339. I was the youngest operator in the neighbourhood. 73 de KBX1339 --... ... -- -.. . -.- -... -..- .--- ...-- ...-- ----. (or something like that. It's been a long time)
@@160dxer 10 is a ghost band because there are three solar minimums coinciding right now. 17,15,12,11,10, 6, are like walking into an enormous mall and being the only one there. I have heard that there are digital modes still being used in those desolate bands. It might be the squealing, popping, buzzing, and hissing, I will faintly hear from time to time. As mentioned earlier, I am not an amateur radio operator. I am just a hobbiest with an SDR receiver, an all band scanner, and some homemade antennas. If you are an amateur radio operator, get on the bands and use them. How are we listeners supposed to enjoy the radio with nobody using the bands? Now chop, chop, get to the mic or telegraphy key. I am depending on you. Are you still here? The bands are not going to use theirself. Get going. Brush the dust off that nasty station you have and get rid of that old chip bag on it. Go.
@@lostinspace280 Ah, continuous wave A1A, a second to learn, a lifetime to master. Believe it or not, I still remember Morse Code and still have my ancient J-47 telegraphy key I bought when I was a child with newspaper route money. I paid an entire 25¢ for the J-47 Lionell key from World War II and spent three hours cleaning it to make it work, and wiring it up to an old CB radio and a homemade sparkgap transmitter. That old sparkgap transmitter could transmit seven miles, much to all the neighbour's dismay. I was heard on televisions, radios, telephones, cb radios, and probably on aircraft radios. When my father found out what I made, wow! I got mega punished that I was the one buzzing the airwaves. My cousin, which I made an identical transmitter for him, blamed exclusively me when his transmitter was discovered. We transmitted all summer on those homemade sparkgap transmitters. We used an AM radio tuned to 1600 AM to receive. I wonder if my cousin still knows Morse Code. By the way, nothing feels quite, "awakening," more than shocking yourself with a homemade sparkgap transmitted. YOUCH!!!
@@lostinspace280 80 meters is what I consider the wild west of amateur radio. Just about anything goes and I am certain some of the operators are not licensed at all. Half do not give their callsign anyway. Out of those that give no callsign, probably half of them have no amateur radio license from any nation. 80 meters is like the Citizen's Band of the 1980s before it cleaned itself up. It is definitly the comedy band. Sound effects, burps, and arguments run rampant. However, it is nice to hear people just let loose. It is strange when I hear some of the people that were drunk and loud on 80 meters operate in other bands by the rules, respectfully, and using appropriate power and microphone amplification. It is like the old Mounds and almond joy commercial. "Some times you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't." Believe it or not, I have had a few CW QSOs on 27.405 USB megacycles. I was not very good at it. But I could not believe someone was operating CW on channel 40 of the CEPT Citizen's Band. We did correspond a few times on different days. The ancient Citizen's Band transceiver in my vehicle still works and I comically attached a J-47 World War II CW key to a small, homemade, oscillator that connected to the microphone jack. I leaned Morse code when I was ten years of age and tapped out a CQ request using my childhood Citizen's Band callsign of KBX1339. I expected no answer but got one nearly instantly. We corresponded several times in CW. It was also quite fun. I really do not mind the 80 meter flamboyance. Even though sometimes it is too much. What I do not like are the hateful operators in VHF and UHF that essentially demand you operate the most expensive equipment, operate it within their guidelines, and you follow their own homemade rules. I have heard then be very hateful to operators that are just atarting and have a budget minded transceiver, like a Radio Oddity or TYT. HF welcomes budget minded operators with homemade transceivers and home modified radios from other services. Alinko, Kenwood, and Yaesu are not required. In VHF and UHF, the evil doctor operators demand that you radio be an Alinko. Kenwood, or Yaesu. These evil rulebook thumpers are probably one of the main reasons people quit the hobby. I am reluctant to become an amateur radio operator because of the, "Radio Lords." Besides, the solar indexes have been dismally low for such a long time. Conditions have been horrible for many years.
Just the way I like RUclips videos to be. No flimflam,padding or bullshit.👍☘️
Absolutely fantastic video, Tim. I'm looking forward to testing out some regional contacts this weekend with this simple build. 73, KT1RUN
Excellent info both here and on the link given to your web page
I appreciate the safety factors of using the yellow wire and painting the stakes on top, in hopes people, kids, or animals don't walk or run into them. Good idea!
wtf?!? i didnt know this guy was a HAM! i used to watch his building construction videos all the time.
Quick, concise and enjoyable. Should have shown it in operation however.
No doubt invented by that famous Scottish radio amateur, Ben Nvis.
If it's not Scottish, it's crap.
Down low for NVIS, up high for DX. Is that right?
Yes, generally
Tim, some military folks call that a 'crocodile' connector. Nice video.
Interesting how many slang variations there are for items in my line of work it was called a "cobrahead" but then again we like eating crayons as well.
I'd like to see on-air determinations w/ NVIS range. You guys show the mechanics but not the results. Who's on the far-end and how far away are they..?
I have found nvis works on 75 meters absolutely outstanding about 20 ft up horizontal off the ground. I ground my antenna.
At what distance was the other station? I would like to hear results.
I stated with almost this exact setup, and could not get the SWR I was hoping for. On 80 meters, I have to get the feed point much higher in the air. I also suspect the angle at which the two sides of the dipole are relative to each other (flat dipole >>> inverted V) further reduces the impedance to a more desirable level. I would like to see an analyzer applied to this setup. I can't imagine this working without a serious tuner.
You don't have a tuner that can tune that low of an impedance. This dude is smokin some shit WAY better than I ever did.
Do you recommend any specific type of rock to pound the stakes in?
Sand stone. LOL
Do these have to be low to the ground?
My ridges of my roof is a giant cross.
Can i stretch an antenna like this out permanently 35ft up on the ridge of my roof?
Thnks dear Tim!!! Vy 73's from EA3ANC (DK6DX) Civil Defense Spain = REMER 43T138.
Love your work
i was thinking, wow, this guy has got an amazing garden - then i saw the people walking thru it in the background :D great that the local laws/council allow a antenna in a public park, and with poles in the ground lol
Good job , going to build one
Excellent video, thx.
Tim questions: 1. Can the wire touch the tree branches if I put it through the trees? 2. Does it have an exact height off the ground or does it matter how high I put it? Thanks
@@christoje I did not get an answer. I managed to avoid any branches in my application
Would it matter if I had to have a run of Coax from the banana connector to my radio..say 150 feet?
Question...? does in need to be inline of would a L configuration work? If don't have the room. Tanks
Did you need a tuner? Suspect so. Did you test the swr of the raw antenna with a NVA? I am going to try on atop my 170 foot six foot vinyl fence.
But you don’t use impedance adapter ?
That’s exactly what I was wondering
How sweet it is!.. FB
Parabéns amigo pela antena
Grreat video... Awesome shirt!
Excellent
Really :(
No demonstration?
Is this for QRP only, or can it handle 100w?
Muito legal amigo muito boa antenas
Do I need an antenna analyzer to make it resonant?
Great video. Thanks. Can you get a banana plug with an SO239 connection instead of a BNC? And does it make a difference? All my coax is has PL 259 ends.
Get an adapter. I bought a pair from Ham radio outlet.
@@Bushy556 Thanks. I keep forgetting to check to see about adapters. 73.
The adapter you use in your instructional video 80 meters NVIS Anthenna. Where can I find / order / buy it? Kind regards from the Netherlands Jan PA11434
www.amazon.com/dp/B00VB62YT2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_Q36X0T8MXYH049JFS90Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Nice job Tim de W8RLP Roger ( from Amberley PD) if you remember me.
You always need an hammer 😮 make sure no one touches it , remember 100w of rf produces a voltage of 500
Crap - in an NVIS situation - STAND CLEAR
Nice!
Does the person your talking to need the same antenna ? Also, most users recommend a "reflector" laying on the ground. Using the same math used for a "beam" or Corner reflector, the reflector would be about 5% longer.
no.
@californiakayaker N6GRG - I have no intention of starting a quarrel, but the comments from Grey Ghost are not entirely reliable, here and elsewhere on the comments for this video. Antenna orientation *normally* has a significant impact on the exchange between 2 stations. Depending on what you are doing and trying to do, I would recommend getting a little more information than just a "no".
Why did you choose 80 meters and not 40 or 20? Wouldn't the wire be shorter and easier to work with? Am I missing something?
Works on any band.. You could probably work farther at night on 80. That's my guess
@@user-ss6zt2mo1l Remember it needs to go up & bounce back.... the higher freq's may not bounce depending on atmospheric conditions. And the goal here is "short" rather than long :)
Most of the time 80 meters is below the Maximum Usable Frequency (MUF) at night, allowing the signal to go straight up and reflect straight back down (NVIS). 40 meters will work the same way most of the time in the day, but where I live, this time of year, this part of the solar cycle, anything above 80 meters has a high probability of passing right through the ionosphere at this angle (theoretically). Not about going further, it's about a reliable regional net (~300 mile radius?) - where terrain has no impact.
Looks like you got a few good answers. 20 is not a NVIS option. 40 a bit but 80 and 160 are best.
I worked 7.251 mtrs daily in the mornings with coverage over the entire southeast US from south Alabama. My NVIS dipole was at eleven feet the entire length under an oak tree oriented SW to NE. Feedline was at 90 degrees for close to 25 feet. Worked Into Spain and France fairly often in the evening but conditions were favorable. NVIS is great for regional comms.
Great video. At what height do you lose the "NVIS" effect? My antenna like this is 35 feet at the apex. Thanks from Utah.
Inverted V antennas have some NVIS effect to it regardless of the apex height. The radiation pattern is absolutely not null above the antenna
D3UB? Morse code message?
4 feet off the ground... most others say 15+ feet. I like the 4 feet version. 😁
it reminds me a loop skywire long time ago
Does it work? Do you need a tuner? I thought it was a great video... as far as it went, but seeing how it performed would have been most helpful.
Kinda like me doing a video of how to butcher and dress out a turkey, but only show a live turkey out in the pasture.
Just sayin'.
I'm designing an NVIS antenna that is built inside a 50-gallon steel barrel. Aiming the open end of the barrel should direct the powerful beams of energy in one focused direction. I drew my inspiration from "This Island Earth"... a 1950's documentary on the work of Gort and Exeter.
how do you test ladder line to make sure it is 450 ohm .
Use a 9:1 balun at one end to match it to a nano vna then on the other end of the ladderline terminate it with a 450 ohm resistor
can we put it on the gutter? not in a straight line VA2SOB
Yes you can, any height less that 1/8 of wave length is NVIS, for 40m height should be at or less than 5meters, for 80m band 10m height or less
Nice video Tim, but ... how can you orient the vertical incidence about 90 degrees over layer F2 with a horizontal dipole to the ground?!? Show us!
73 fr Jose
Thanks for the vid Tim. I allways have to tell hams "what is NVIS..."-they still dont know.. rgds fm owner of NVIS beacon OV1BCN in Denmark. vy73 de Lars oz1fjb - ou2v
You hear extremely colourful conversation on 80 meters. Anything goes there. Call signs are seldom heard. Forget language that will make a sailor blush, it will make a sailor puke. It is the wild west of the amateur radio world. It sort of sounds like the CB band of yesteryear before CB cleaned itself up. Anybody can talk there whether they have band privileges there or not, or even if not licensed. Nobody cares what goes on there. Strangely, if you hear the same operators on 2 meters, they are by the book. Then later that night, after a few beers, margaritas, whisky shots, and taste testing their moonshine, they go to 80 meters and start yelling at each other, singing, whistling, fighting, and talking over each other. It really is like a wild west saloon. I guess it is the comedy band.
Kinda like 10m.
@Derek Rader I must admit, it is very interesting to listen to it. What bothers me is the lack of callsign a lot. I am not an amateur radio operated. But I believe there is a requirement to identify the transmitting station every ten minutes. Some of the transmissions are quite, inebriated, colourful, and unrestrained, but there is always an identifying call sign given. Others are just the same but no callsign is given. Perhaps they sed unlicensed operators. I guess that is the way the fringe radio operators get inspired to get their license so they can babble while drunk and not get in trouble. 40 meters has a subdued version of late night comedy time. But 80 is definitly the wild west of amateur radio. It reminds me of what Citizen's Band used to be in the 1980s and early 1990s before it cleaned itself up. Maybe I will frigure a way to get on someday and just use my old CB radio callsign, KBX1339. I was the youngest operator in the neighbourhood.
73 de KBX1339
--... ... -- -.. . -.- -... -..- .--- ...-- ...-- ----. (or something like that. It's been a long time)
@@160dxer 10 is a ghost band because there are three solar minimums coinciding right now. 17,15,12,11,10, 6, are like walking into an enormous mall and being the only one there. I have heard that there are digital modes still being used in those desolate bands. It might be the squealing, popping, buzzing, and hissing, I will faintly hear from time to time. As mentioned earlier, I am not an amateur radio operator. I am just a hobbiest with an SDR receiver, an all band scanner, and some homemade antennas. If you are an amateur radio operator, get on the bands and use them. How are we listeners supposed to enjoy the radio with nobody using the bands? Now chop, chop, get to the mic or telegraphy key. I am depending on you.
Are you still here? The bands are not going to use theirself. Get going. Brush the dust off that nasty station you have and get rid of that old chip bag on it. Go.
@@lostinspace280 Ah, continuous wave A1A, a second to learn, a lifetime to master. Believe it or not, I still remember Morse Code and still have my ancient J-47 telegraphy key I bought when I was a child with newspaper route money. I paid an entire 25¢ for the J-47 Lionell key from World War II and spent three hours cleaning it to make it work, and wiring it up to an old CB radio and a homemade sparkgap transmitter. That old sparkgap transmitter could transmit seven miles, much to all the neighbour's dismay. I was heard on televisions, radios, telephones, cb radios, and probably on aircraft radios. When my father found out what I made, wow! I got mega punished that I was the one buzzing the airwaves. My cousin, which I made an identical transmitter for him, blamed exclusively me when his transmitter was discovered. We transmitted all summer on those homemade sparkgap transmitters. We used an AM radio tuned to 1600 AM to receive. I wonder if my cousin still knows Morse Code. By the way, nothing feels quite, "awakening," more than shocking yourself with a homemade sparkgap transmitted. YOUCH!!!
@@lostinspace280 80 meters is what I consider the wild west of amateur radio. Just about anything goes and I am certain some of the operators are not licensed at all. Half do not give their callsign anyway. Out of those that give no callsign, probably half of them have no amateur radio license from any nation. 80 meters is like the Citizen's Band of the 1980s before it cleaned itself up. It is definitly the comedy band. Sound effects, burps, and arguments run rampant. However, it is nice to hear people just let loose. It is strange when I hear some of the people that were drunk and loud on 80 meters operate in other bands by the rules, respectfully, and using appropriate power and microphone amplification. It is like the old Mounds and almond joy commercial. "Some times you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Believe it or not, I have had a few CW QSOs on 27.405 USB megacycles. I was not very good at it. But I could not believe someone was operating CW on channel 40 of the CEPT Citizen's Band. We did correspond a few times on different days. The ancient Citizen's Band transceiver in my vehicle still works and I comically attached a J-47 World War II CW key to a small, homemade, oscillator that connected to the microphone jack. I leaned Morse code when I was ten years of age and tapped out a CQ request using my childhood Citizen's Band callsign of KBX1339. I expected no answer but got one nearly instantly. We corresponded several times in CW. It was also quite fun. I really do not mind the 80 meter flamboyance. Even though sometimes it is too much. What I do not like are the hateful operators in VHF and UHF that essentially demand you operate the most expensive equipment, operate it within their guidelines, and you follow their own homemade rules. I have heard then be very hateful to operators that are just atarting and have a budget minded transceiver, like a Radio Oddity or TYT. HF welcomes budget minded operators with homemade transceivers and home modified radios from other services. Alinko, Kenwood, and Yaesu are not required. In VHF and UHF, the evil doctor operators demand that you radio be an Alinko. Kenwood, or Yaesu. These evil rulebook thumpers are probably one of the main reasons people quit the hobby. I am reluctant to become an amateur radio operator because of the, "Radio Lords." Besides, the solar indexes have been dismally low for such a long time. Conditions have been horrible for many years.
I want your house. Lovely
Is a tuner reuired?
It helps...
No BALUN? No Choke?
Wenn die doch endlich mal den Kaugummi auspucken würden.
Not practical for a flat dweller like me.
Дядя еще раз и по русски! Пожалуйста!
80 Meter. Be metric!