Lauren, you took the words right out of my mouth. How many damn adults kept their mouths shut, instead of going to authorities and protecting Charles, Tammy, JJ and Tylee?!!!
I get what your saying but look what happened to Charles the police, family all thought he was crazy and he ended up dead! I feel that Audrey was scared & wouldn’t be believed x
I wanted to hear Audrey tell Archibald that she didn't report Lori's behavior bc, like w/Charles, they'd think SHE'S crazy; & add "like they did w/Charles". This story IS crazy.
Isn't that the truth. The church did not listen already. Why would the primarily LDS LE there listen? She did not know anyone there that she could put her trust in to speak up. Maybe she would have placed herself in an even more dangerous position in her mind, no doubt. Chad was revered amongst the AVOW/Preparing a People population.
I agree I find it hard to believe that anyone could have stopped this once it got rolling. No one listened to poor Charles and until he was killed no crime was committed and they didn't even want to admit that was a crime for a long time.
@@shewill8618 what can the church do aside from excommunicate them?😥 I do think they were extremely overlooked and got zero suspicion when they were guilty as demons!! So disgusting because had people not been so into loris sex appeal 🙄😳 People could have been saved😔💔
I relate to Audrey because I too (when I was a young adult - I'm 64 now) was very naive, people pleaser, saw the good in everyone. I learned a lot from the school of hard knocks and I still fight those traits but not as much.
I adore that dr John is becoming more and more comfortable when I hear his incomparable humour comes out!!! Dr Babe you have cracked me up many times already tonight in-spite of the horror of this case! Love you both @hidden true crime
I totally believe Audrey. There was no reason to perjure herself. And perhaps she didn’t mention it in the grand jury testimony because the issue of why she abandoned her friendship with Lori never came up. It was in that context that she revealed this info. and the issue first came up in cross exam when Thomas asked her why she abandoned her friendship with Lori. She said because she felt scared . Then on re- direct she was asked why she was scared and she said she was threatened. And she “let loose” from there. I don’t understand why people don’t believe her. Does anyone actually think Lori is not capable of saying something like that? I have absolutely no doubt that Lori IS capable of telling her that. I just don’t see why it’s so hard for people to believe?!
Perfectly articulated. I did hear (maybe from Nate Eaton) that Audrey did tell the FBI about the threat when they interviewed here. She did not come straight out and jump into the story when defense was cross examine her because they did not ask the follow up questions. The STATE asked the follow up question, and I believe they already knew the answer due to her interview with the FBI. The testimony and witnesses brought to the grand jury only need to disclose enough information to move forward in the prosecution of the charges. I think this little nugget was strategically held back because it is part of the smoking gun to support the first degree murder charges. Brilliant lawyering and strategy!
The best line from the day was from the agent. On redirect the last question was something along lines about what about the other people that believed Chad. The agent replied, "nobody else has dead children." Bang!
You're the only channel, other than Nate Eaton's daily trial recaps, that I listen to re this case. You guys offer unparalleled psychological insight to this case. Thank you.
As for LV "losing her cool" in an uncharacteristic way with Audrey...could it have been that LV felt threatened by this younger, attractive, sincerely sweet person who was "rejecting" her by questioning and leaving the group?
Yep. Anyone who questioned or rejected her crazy beliefs was shunned (with the wrath of Lori's anger) - only passive followers allowed around Lori & Chad.
Lori also had to put Audrey in a spot of fear, because Audrey got a bit of warning up in Loris jealousy because Chad knew Audrey before Lori & trusted her 100%.
Oh, Dr. John, you are so right. When you realize you are in a relationship with an unhealthy person, you ARE embarrassed. “How could I have been in a relationship with this (narcissist, manipulator, abuser, weirdo … fill in the blank).” I believe Tylee was killed because she knew too much about what Lori had done. Dr. John’s comment that Lori felt threatened by Audrey’s leaving their “friendship” because Audrey knew too much. It makes Audrey’s claims about the statements more believable for me. With respect, Dr. John, the victims were not murdered for L&C “peculiar beliefs”. L&C used their beliefs to JUSTIFY their actions. The victims were murdered because they were obstacles to L&C being together and for access to the money their deaths would provide for L&C.
I just now finished the live for today and I have got to say the way todays testimony ended will leave the jury with a guilty impression they will never forget. I know I won’t.
I'm with Dr John - Audrey had a compelling reason not to tell the grand jury, seeing what these people were capable of and not even knowing if there would be an indictment.
Also, if someone as smart, loving and articulate as Charles was could not convince LE his life was in imminent danger, Audrey would have had zero chance of being taken seriously.
Also some kind of CRIME has to be committed you can't just go say oh my this lady said her kids are dark. It doesn't work that way as much as we wish it did
Tylee could have told us all sooo much about the “true Lori”. Unfortunately she probably never believed in her wildest dreams that her mom would actually kill her!!
I think Tylee did know what an unstable person her Mother was. I think that's why she is intolerant of many of her Mother's friends. I don't believe she had any clue that her own Mother would scheme to kill both of her children!!!
In the police interview with Tylee Lori and Melanie G, Tylee tried to calm her mum down by tapping her arm. Also she joked and said they needed to put her mum in a (padded cell) Strait jacket…can’t remember exactly ! Something spooked Audrey, they blackmailed her w fear which is why she wanted to get home from Hawaii and Lori also thought her threats would keep her silent, this is why she was the on the most trusted list.
Oddly, when Audrey was crying, I could visualize her face because the sobs telegraphed sincerity. I, too, was humbled by John's reminder of abuse victims of all kinds; I know better. Thank you.
Your recent interview with Lori’s cousin showed she has Freddie Kruger tendencies. She liked people who run over cats for fun. I wish you would be discussing that interview more.
I also found that interview really insightful into the family and made me think Alex cox had some thing to do with Stacy’s death. This whole family is so disturbing!
Wow Dr John just came out and said it straight! I got chills when he said it and i believe it was real. I never catch a luve because i live in South Africa but I love your channel and your professionalism.Dr Johns insight is phenomenal.❤
Lauren, tonight was the first time I heard you express your personal feelings about Lori. ❤ that fire. Also, appreciate John's empathy and professionalism. You two are such an amazing duo. Thanks for sharing your time, knowledge and opinions.
I feel like Audrey was a victim also. I think about women who are in domestic violence situations and stay. It doesn't have to be physical. I also know from experience (domestic violence) how it can feel when you first get hit with the waves of admitting out loud you wanted to believe so badly that you overlooked what others may see. There's ownership, feelings of guilt, anger, shame. Facing your own disbelief is hard. She was coming forward. I say that had to be real difficult for her. Hopefully she seeks therapy. She came forward believe her or not and she cried, that's real. So what people are allowed to cry there's no shame in that. And Loris lawyer was trying to bully her,, I'm glad the judge stopped that.
@@kjn3005 the defense asked her that and didn't let her explain why she was afraid. She started with saying Chad and Lori and then was cutter of. Then the judge didn't allowed the prosecution a follow up question. But anyway I believe the jury will find Lory guilty.
I love, love, love you guys when you're doing these podcasts together! I've listen to every single one of them. I've even relistened just because. Thank you both so much for these.
After seeing some ex scientologists & ex Jehovahs on RUclips, the common thread is total loyalty when you're in the cult. Audrey is believable. Dr John is a shrewd operator.
Do I believe Audrey? Yes. Is she feeling guilt? Yes. Was she manipulated? Yes. You know the saying about hindsight. Horrible lessons learned here. She has to feel like a fool. LDS practices/religion really is a lifestyle that creates a naive and gullible perception of reality and relating with others and sense of believing in safety. She has to find her OWN identity.
@@grammichal6759 probably not, because Chud and Lori’s fantasy is “on the fringe” of LDS beliefs. LDS members don’t believe Chud and Lori represent the mainstream Mormon church.
@@grungestorytellerHi, I do realize that. I grew up LDS myself. So, I should probably say I have a personal understanding. And I am sure Lauren gets it.
This whole story or script by Chad and Lori is bad on literary grounds. The fact that it happened is such a tragedy that I would never be able to believe actually happened. So sad for Tylee, JJ, Tammy, Charles and all affected. Don't see how the jury will miss this one. Hope more folks will be investigated for their roles.🤔
It’s scary how many people know something was wrong! And nobody took responsibility and do something.It’s awfully.I totally agree with you.The jury can’t miss this one.I am not American,and l don’t know the laws,but there is people who should have knowledge about this and they should have go to the police.
Great insight … both of you! My own mom tried to kill me … 1st time when I was 13 … I NEVER TOLD A SOUL until I was in my 50’s In fairness my Mom was obviously very mentally ill. The difference in my Mom and Lori is that my Mom never tried to “cover” or “hide” her behavior … she honestly did not remember or “know” what she had done. As a child it was very confusing. But as I matured, I realized what “out of their mind” and “snapped” mean.
Isn't that interesting! My mom was abusive and could have really hurt us as kids. In my 20's I heard her laughing and essentially bragging to her friend about it. I had to put my foot down and she STILL doesn't truly acknowledge how really torturous she was.
Interesting, and traumatising for you, it seems to me that the brain can become very unwell, changing a person beyond recognition, heart attack of the brain, this strikes me about Lori, but not Chad, I think he really believes what he is preaching, Lori mentally unwell. Respect to your strength. 🤗
Thx so much everyone for your kind words and responses. Thankfully, God healed me long ago from the abuse. I only mentioned it to bolster the view point and discussion; and to hopefully help illuminate the stark difference between Lori’s actions before, during, and after these horrific events - and how different it was for my mom and her actions. I’m not “excusing” my Mom, but I do realize her untreated illness. Also, to illuminate the possibility that Audrey and some of the others may be being completely truthful in their recounts of things they witnessed. When a person in position of high trust in our lives - especially when we are particularly vulnerable and impressionable - destroys that foundation in our life, it affects us on several levels, and commonly takes significant time to unravel and come “to terms” with.
I also was surprised that Melani B. Discussed with Lori, and seemed to believe, that her oldest child was also a zombie. This makes the ongoing court custody thing that she has going on with her ex-husband Brandon about their children or any children very very disturbing. I can certainly see some manipulation now in her inability to testify in this court case.
@@dejuhvu1793 he could have been trapped by the fact that she was pregnant and then they had a child together. But unless he is as dumb as a box of rocks he should have dropped her home from the hospital alone and run.
@@spongebobsqueezeShe just had the baby. They’ve been married fir 3 years. If I were Ians’s ex-wife I would not want my kids near Melani. I read or heard that it was Ian’s wife who first became aware of that Tylee and JJ were missing and Ian was told about it, that’s when he went to the police. Ian felt guilty and decided to finally tell Melani. I think that both Melanie’s and Zulema are not innocent in this whole nightmare and should be prosecuted. Also David, Melanie’s husband.
That’s scare me.when a mother means her children.are “dark “. I wonder if she need some help,And if l was grandmother to her children l will ask the children’s father to be around them,maybe it will be right that they live with their father.
I picked up on the “I need to get to the mental place to do it” when she threatened Audrey. It sounded like a confession of how she was able to participate in the murder of her children and Charles. I have always believe she had her hand in the physical murders .
Here's the thing though, Lori's now late husband did say something. Melanie P's ex-husband did say something, Melanie P's current husband said something and nobody was listening.
Dr. John, thank you for your insight about Audrey's testimony, that she'd been a victim of this cult & it was consistent with DV type verbal abuse. Lauren, I look forward to your lunch lives each day. Your emotions of grief, shock, and anger definitely come through and we all empathize with you.
A. Baratteiro, like others associated with L and C, was afflicted with conflict of affection/dedication. Her affection for L overrode her concern for "dark" souls, as she believed in Chad's spiritual teachings, until she saw firsthand the way Chad and Lori carried on with each other right after Tammy's death. At that point, she connected the dots. Later, she confronted Lori when they were alone and was threatened.
I often wonder what response Chad thought he would get to his words and actions. For example, when he went to show Lori off to his neighbors. Obviously they were shocked, confused, embarrassed. But I don’t think Chad realized that this was how they would feel. I wonder if he believed that they would be happy for him. Or impressed that he got himself such a “hot” woman. Like he wanted them to respect and admire him and maybe be a little jealous. I feel like this is the response he thought he would get.
Thank you both! Dr John I felt exactly the same way about Audrey. She reminds me a lot of me many years ago. I've had many situations which I too struggled through. I truly love your podcast. Not only do we receive free therapy (lol) I learn so much from you two. Be safe.
I had 2 very close friends who were narcissists and if ever they felt threatened in any way (usually a threat to their ego) they would suddenly turn very cold and sometimes it was very shocking and frightening.
The thing that stood out to me about Chad's interactions with the neighbors...His chutzpah. The judge I used to work with described "chutzpah" as someone who kills both his parents and then throws himself on the mercy of the court because he's an orphan. Chad and Lori both lost their sense of "knowing your audience."
Thank you, Dr. John and Lauren! Both of you see everything clearly, and both of your professional opinions were very helpful to understand this unbelievable crime! As a mother, this crime is still difficult to comprehend. All these murders were not for religion and power, it was just for sex and free money!
I agree with Dr. John on this one. I see it like a mean girls group it’s great and you go along until they turn on you. She realized that all are expendable and it scared the bananas out of her
I love the balance between Lauren and Dr. Babe. I found myself having a hard time believing Audrie as well, but after hearing Dr. Babe was also more willing to give her testimony a chance. ALSO, the insights on Gibb! I can’t stand GIbb for her obvious lack of empathy to the kids. It’s Tylee but also JJ. She didn’t/doesn’t like either of them and could care less that they were plotting their deaths. It’s so disturbing that these women were allowed back into society with no repercussions for their involvement. And Gibb has the nerve to stand there and say “Oh I”m ALWAYS a nice person!” No lady, you are narcissistic and twisted in the head, but you are not nice.
Dr. John I always love to hear your perspectives especially with Audrey. You explained it so uncomplicated that makes total sense. Especially how Audrey acted like she did. She almost sounds like she has suffered some kind of DV herself prior to all of this. Great Podcast from both of you. Lauren I can’t wait to hear the interview with Janelle. 🙏
Do you know how many people report their exes as being crazy? There’s only so much that police can do, it gets turned over to investigators, and it’s their job to do more if there’s something that’s a arrestable. The police didn’t let anybody down, they get a small snapshot into what is going on. The people around them have an entire lifetime with them and didn’t even know what was going on.
On April 6 I went to the police because my doomsday housemate had prepared to kill me as soon as I became a zombie. I was BELIEVED and he was arrested that night. I’m still shaking. 1:12:55 I’m new to Hidden True Crime. When do they go live?
It’s disgusting that so many people stood by and were complicit but we still have Chads trial and then there’s Arizona and standing trial for Charles murder .. 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
I 100% agree with John about Audrey being honest and furthermore, between that and the hair on JJ I have now decided she was hands on with both of the children. I think Alex was support for her in those actions but she was why we saw so much overkill with the kids. I had a terrible opinion of her before the trial and now somehow I see her as even worse.
Yeah I could see her being so narcissistic to think that those are HER kids and therefore she'll be the one to take them out of the world. I think it's possible that alex rendered the kids unable to fight, lori finished them when they couldnt fight back, and chad disposed of the bodies. I def think chad is the one who mutilated Tylee's body so badly.
They recovered a roll of duct tape that could have been at Lori's apartment. The hair (Lori's) could also have been transferred from Alex or Chad. They were all together so much it may be hard to "prove" that LV was actually at the scene or participated. Don't get me wrong...she is totally capable of being part of the "hands-on," imo!
Love your show. The way Dr. John helps us make sense of this compels me to keep watching. Try to look for the lives but it doesn't always work out due to my work schedule. Amazed how you are both so dedicated. Since I haven't followed this case from the beginning I have looked for and watched your previous episodes to help fill in the blanks. I have become a huge fan and am hooked. Love from Albuquerque.
Lauren ~ I think you’re looking at this through your mind and not your heart. Logic will never understand illogical behavior. There maybe childhood trauma around blindly trusting but at the heart of it Audrey is just a little girl in a woman’s body. And not all wounds are visible ~ domestic violence is rarely seen ❤️
Yay! I’m so glad Dr. John weighed in on Audrey. My initial reaction was to believe her, but I admit I began to doubt my instincts when everyone criticized her story.
From Audreys testimony I got the sense the Melanie woman was being pushed to the side to make way for Lori. I believe Audrey was saying her heart was going out to Melanie and she wanted to be with her and support her as much as a true friend would. However when she started to Realise just how vicious Lori truely is she wanted out I didn’t get the impression she thought for one minute Chad and Lori where capable of doing anything as horrendous until Tammy’s death That’s when she get suspicious asks Lori Lori goes septic at being questioned especially by someone who had been up to now so accepting, gullible timid and yes naive Even with the castings I don’t she thought murder And then Leaving a cult situation is notoriously difficult at best. All the questions we may have about Audrey she will have about her self
I feel Alice was the first “outside” person that we got to see so affected by all these deaths. Hearing her cry for the kids who she never met or have no connection to was gut wrenching. I know she was on the stand for Tammy but she did so much for the kids too. It validates all of our emotions and feelings for the kids and Tammy and Charles because we have no connection to any of this.
“I have a big heart”, I heard it as she’s probably been second guessing herself, and maybe that is how she’s processed it. By telling herself that “I have a big heart”. Maybe it’s just become part of her narrative, and how she’s made peace. I absolutely believed her, and felt sympathy. I am mad at all the people who made excuses instead of standing up. Not everyone can do that though. Thank you for the coverage!!
Lauren, you mentioned you are in part attracted to true crime because you used to be more naive. I totally relate to that. I was very sheltered and homeschooled until I was 14 years old. My parents were also affiliated with a polygamist group for a period of time when I was a young child. I experienced a lot of secrecy, and “we are special”mindset as a child. I feel like my whole life I’ve been playing catch-up on understanding what normal behaviors are and/or frequently second guessing myself. Listening to true crime seems to be a little therapeutic in reminding me that I am fine because clearly there are plenty of examples of people who aren’t. LOL I’ve really enjoyed listening to all your HTC content. I listened to a few other podcasters prior to finding yours but they were so off base. Then I found yours and instantly agreed with everything regarding the Daybell case. Thank you to both you and Dr John for your amazing work on this.
OMGSH!!!! Thank you for these vids. Audrey used to be in my institute class back in Orlando Florida in 2009. we have pictures together. Haven’t heard from her since I left to BYU that same year. until today I heard she was involved with the Lori daybell case and was absolutely blown away. How in the world was Audrey connected to this case and I had no clue this entire time. WTF!!!
I just admire both of you and I can just imagine that darling little B knocking on the door. That warmed my heart after talking about all the craziness going on in the world.
Also don't forget what Lori said while in a beauty pageant, that she's a "ticking time bomb" because of the stress of everything she has to do to be a good wife and mother. And she was a lot younger then. She's been scary her whole life and just got worse over the years.
Lauren: interesting comment re Chad’s sexual interest in Audrey. Totally possible. Also did you catch Tylee’s comment on the PD’s video when she came back with Lori at Charles’ murder: when Lori was asked if she would go to get a psychiatric evaluation, Tylee seemed to say under her breath, “yeah because they would lock you up” or something similar?
I’ll never hear random phrases like “the storm is basically the downfall of corrupt government and politicians,” with complete equanimity ever again after today 😂
'the downfall of corrupt government and politicians' That sounds like a quote from one of the First Born, Preparing a People false prophets. They were big anti-government, deep state, sowing distrust. Populism 101, common to many cults and splinter groups and no wonder considering the disregard of rules and laws
I LOVE you guys. I enjoy your marriage energy of working together and sharing thoughts. Youre doing good work so that we, the public, don't go crazy trying to understand what is really impossible to understand. Thumbs up from my heart
Everyone keeps saying she should have said something...however, Charles tried to tell others...no one believed him or acted upon it. Thanks again for doing all you do! Love from the Atlanta area!
I never doubted Audrey for a second. As an abused child and adult, I know exactly how it sounds when an abuser wants to terrorize you. You can’t imagine the terror of a death threat.
I aree with you both,No matter how many times Melanie Gibb,David Warwick,Zulema Pas tenes,and Aubry B. try and justify the "Why's" they did or didn't believe Chad and Lor theyi all had a responsibility to say something! My question for you both is why Ian Palowski was the only one to agree and wear a wire to try and help find the kids? Were they all brainwashed?
Judgmental on Audrey's poor judgment? Sceptical of witnesses testifying about why they did nothing over conspiracies on a quadruple murder? If we're going to go here we may as well say that they're all manipulated victims, including Mel Gibb, Zulema and Melaniece.
@@amberncambro Same. Major red flags as Audrey testified and then of course to hear the texts yesterday contradict what Audrey had said in court just days earlier. I made sure to listen to Audrey twice, made it easier to compare all of the places where she expresses sorrow, regret and shame with the ones which are more forced, for effect
I agree with Dr. John! Audrey is credible and was terribly at sorts if she was going to share. She knew throwing that out might hurt her case, but she still shared.
Love you’re discussions. Such a good balanced discussion. Glad to see you both back on here. To me Lori is a female version of her father, that’s why she was the golden child.
To those wanting to know who Mike Stroud is-please watch the first 15 minutes of this video ruclips.net/video/_Q0IhDHbfsE/видео.html
Lauren, you took the words right out of my mouth. How many damn adults kept their mouths shut, instead of going to authorities and protecting Charles, Tammy, JJ and Tylee?!!!
my thoughts too ... 😕 it's as if they're under some kind of collective spell
Amen!
That would be snitching according to the defense. Kinda of a back step from the "being aware and reporting such activities "
@@atfaafo They are under a "spell," as you say. A hellish evil spell.
I get what your saying but look what happened to Charles the police, family all thought he was crazy and he ended up dead! I feel that Audrey was scared & wouldn’t be believed x
Dr. John, Psychologist, your analysis explains and compliments your wife, Lori, Journalist, trial coverage! We need you BOTH ❤
I wanted to hear Audrey tell Archibald that she didn't report Lori's behavior bc, like w/Charles, they'd think SHE'S crazy; & add "like they did w/Charles". This story IS crazy.
Isn't that the truth. The church did not listen already. Why would the primarily LDS LE there listen? She did not know anyone there that she could put her trust in to speak up. Maybe she would have placed herself in an even more dangerous position in her mind, no doubt. Chad was revered amongst the AVOW/Preparing a People population.
Yes very good point.
I agree I find it hard to believe that anyone could have stopped this once it got rolling. No one listened to poor Charles and until he was killed no crime was committed and they didn't even want to admit that was a crime for a long time.
@@shewill8618 what can the church do aside from excommunicate them?😥
I do think they were extremely overlooked and got zero suspicion when they were guilty as demons!! So disgusting because had people not been so into loris sex appeal 🙄😳
People could have been saved😔💔
I relate to Audrey because I too (when I was a young adult - I'm 64 now) was very naive, people pleaser, saw the good in everyone. I learned a lot from the school of hard knocks and I still fight those traits but not as much.
Same here
Your show is free therapy for us!
HA, yeah. :)
I adore that dr John is becoming more and more comfortable when I hear his incomparable humour comes out!!! Dr Babe you have cracked me up many times already tonight in-spite of the horror of this case! Love you both @hidden true crime
Agreed! When he said Lori’s actions were peculiar I lol’ed!
The laugh in Colby’s phone call when he accused her of blasphemy gave a ring of truth to Audrey’s story
I totally believe Audrey. There was no reason to perjure herself. And perhaps she didn’t mention it in the grand jury testimony because the issue of why she abandoned her friendship with Lori never came up. It was in that context that she revealed this info. and the issue first came up in cross exam when Thomas asked her why she abandoned her friendship with Lori. She said because she felt scared . Then on re- direct she was asked why she was scared and she said she was threatened. And she “let loose” from there.
I don’t understand why people don’t believe her. Does anyone actually think Lori is not capable of saying something like that? I have absolutely no doubt that Lori IS capable of telling her that.
I just don’t see why it’s so hard for people to believe?!
Me either, good points!
Do you think Chad wanted sister wives.
Perfectly articulated. I did hear (maybe from Nate Eaton) that Audrey did tell the FBI about the threat when they interviewed here. She did not come straight out and jump into the story when defense was cross examine her because they did not ask the follow up questions. The STATE asked the follow up question, and I believe they already knew the answer due to her interview with the FBI. The testimony and witnesses brought to the grand jury only need to disclose enough information to move forward in the prosecution of the charges. I think this little nugget was strategically held back because it is part of the smoking gun to support the first degree murder charges. Brilliant lawyering and strategy!
@@racheyl891I just wrote a comment thinking I do believe he was setting the stage for the future. Sister wives is the word I didn't have
@@teraallan I agree it was BRILLIANT timing!!!!
The best line from the day was from the agent. On redirect the last question was something along lines about what about the other people that believed Chad.
The agent replied, "nobody else has dead children." Bang!
Although let's face it I think Melanie B's kids were next....
Yes, the FBI agent had no problem handling the redirect! I laughed several times because the poor defense attorney didn't stand a chance.
I agree that Melanie G is so unfeeling and callous about Tylee.
Melanie G has a screw loose.
And Tylee thought about MG, what's to like?
Noticed that also.
I think Melanie G knows more than she is saying
Melanie-wannabe G is a snake
You're the only channel, other than Nate Eaton's daily trial recaps, that I listen to re this case. You guys offer unparalleled psychological insight to this case. Thank you.
I do love this group! Lauren and John are such an incredible team! Johns insight is unlimited!
As for LV "losing her cool" in an uncharacteristic way with Audrey...could it have been that LV felt threatened by this younger, attractive, sincerely sweet person who was "rejecting" her by questioning and leaving the group?
Yep. Anyone who questioned or rejected her crazy beliefs was shunned (with the wrath of Lori's anger) - only passive followers allowed around Lori & Chad.
Lori also had to put Audrey in a spot of fear, because Audrey got a bit of warning up in Loris jealousy because Chad knew Audrey before Lori & trusted her 100%.
In Lori's eyes it makes her look bad, and she can't have that. Lori is sociopath, malignant narcissist.
Also was Chad lining up chicks? Lori is getting old. Lori was jealous.
You have a good point
Oh, Dr. John, you are so right. When you realize you are in a relationship with an unhealthy person, you ARE embarrassed. “How could I have been in a relationship with this (narcissist, manipulator, abuser, weirdo … fill in the blank).”
I believe Tylee was killed because she knew too much about what Lori had done. Dr. John’s comment that Lori felt threatened by Audrey’s leaving their “friendship” because Audrey knew too much. It makes Audrey’s claims about the statements more believable for me.
With respect, Dr. John, the victims were not murdered for L&C “peculiar beliefs”. L&C used their beliefs to JUSTIFY their actions. The victims were murdered because they were obstacles to L&C being together and for access to the money their deaths would provide for L&C.
I don't think I was embarrassed as much as confused. "how does this keep happening??". I'm happy to be single forever going forward.
I just now finished the live for today and I have got to say the way todays testimony ended will leave the jury with a guilty impression they will never forget. I know I won’t.
Elizabeth. How do you see "the live for the day." As you say.
@@marjoriegarner5369 the live audio.
We appreciate your hard work everyday at Trial! How exciting!!!
I'm with Dr John - Audrey had a compelling reason not to tell the grand jury, seeing what these people were capable of and not even knowing if there would be an indictment.
Also, if someone as smart, loving and articulate as Charles was could not convince LE his life was in imminent danger, Audrey would have had zero chance of being taken seriously.
Amen but no one listens. No one was going to believe these people were anything but kooks!!!
Also some kind of CRIME has to be committed you can't just go say oh my this lady said her kids are dark. It doesn't work that way as much as we wish it did
So lucky, Lauren, to have someone so well spoken to bounce ideas off. Thanks Dr. John for your insights. Still prayers for Jamie🙏.
Tylee could have told us all sooo much about the “true Lori”. Unfortunately she probably never believed in her wildest dreams that her mom would actually kill her!!
Yeah I think if she had realized she would have run off with JJ 😢
I think Tylee did know what an unstable person her Mother was. I think that's why she is intolerant of many of her Mother's friends. I don't believe she had any clue that her own Mother would scheme to kill both of her children!!!
In the police interview with Tylee Lori and Melanie G, Tylee tried to calm her mum down by tapping her arm. Also she joked and said they needed to put her mum in a (padded cell) Strait jacket…can’t remember exactly !
Something spooked Audrey, they blackmailed her w fear which is why she wanted to get home from Hawaii and Lori also thought her threats would keep her silent, this is why she was the on the most trusted list.
This is also why Lori glared at her in court, she knew this threat would come out, to me I believe her.
Oddly, when Audrey was crying, I could visualize her face because the sobs telegraphed sincerity. I, too, was humbled by John's reminder of abuse victims of all kinds; I know better. Thank you.
I believe that Audrey is telling the truth.
Love dr John’s assessments, they help me so much to understand. It all resonates as correct too.
Thank you Dr John and Lauren for all of your hard work. I appreciate you so much.❤️🙏🙏
Your recent interview with Lori’s cousin showed she has Freddie Kruger tendencies. She liked people who run over cats for fun. I wish you would be discussing that interview more.
Yes. Anybody who laughs at intentionally running over innocent animals is mentally deranged.
@@marygoff3332 And killing animals is a huge predictor of future criminality.
I agree. Who was in the pet cemetery
The cousin also did a four hour interview on Mormon Stories where she said she suspected Alex murdered his and Lories oldest sister.
I also found that interview really insightful into the family and made me think Alex cox had some thing to do with Stacy’s death. This whole family is so disturbing!
Wow Dr John just came out and said it straight! I got chills when he said it and i believe it was real. I never catch a luve because i live in South Africa but I love your channel and your professionalism.Dr Johns insight is phenomenal.❤
Lauren, tonight was the first time I heard you express your personal feelings about Lori. ❤ that fire. Also, appreciate John's empathy and professionalism. You two are such an amazing duo. Thanks for sharing your time, knowledge and opinions.
I feel like Audrey was a victim also. I think about women who are in domestic violence situations and stay. It doesn't have to be physical. I also know from experience (domestic violence) how it can feel when you first get hit with the waves of admitting out loud you wanted to believe so badly that you overlooked what others may see. There's ownership, feelings of guilt, anger, shame. Facing your own disbelief is hard. She was coming forward. I say that had to be real difficult for her. Hopefully she seeks therapy. She came forward believe her or not and she cried, that's real. So what people are allowed to cry there's no shame in that. And Loris lawyer was trying to bully her,, I'm glad the judge stopped that.
I wished the prosecuter was allowed to ask her that one last question: why she didn't tell the grand jury.
@@helmaeijck4246 I thought she did, because she was afraid??
@@kjn3005 the defense asked her that and didn't let her explain why she was afraid. She started with saying Chad and Lori and then was cutter of. Then the judge didn't allowed the prosecution a follow up question. But anyway I believe the jury will find Lory guilty.
I love, love, love you guys when you're doing these podcasts together! I've listen to every single one of them. I've even relistened just because. Thank you both so much for these.
After seeing some ex scientologists & ex Jehovahs on RUclips, the common thread is total loyalty when you're in the cult. Audrey is believable. Dr John is a shrewd operator.
Do I believe Audrey? Yes. Is she feeling guilt? Yes. Was she manipulated? Yes. You know the saying about hindsight. Horrible lessons learned here. She has to feel like a fool. LDS practices/religion really is a lifestyle that creates a naive and gullible perception of reality and relating with others and sense of believing in safety. She has to find her OWN identity.
You do realize Lauren here is LDS right? So is Nate Eaton. Not judging, just saying.
Well said!
@@grungestoryteller I’m aware of this. I wonder if this case will result in a more discerning look at the tenants of the LDS system.
@@grammichal6759 probably not, because Chud and Lori’s fantasy is “on the fringe” of LDS beliefs. LDS members don’t believe Chud and Lori represent the mainstream Mormon church.
@@grungestorytellerHi, I do realize that. I grew up LDS myself. So, I should probably say I have a personal understanding. And I am sure Lauren gets it.
This whole story or script by Chad and Lori is bad on literary grounds. The fact that it happened is such a tragedy that I would never be able to believe actually happened. So sad for Tylee, JJ, Tammy, Charles and all affected. Don't see how the jury will miss this one. Hope more folks will be investigated for their roles.🤔
It’s scary how many people know something was wrong! And nobody took responsibility and do something.It’s awfully.I totally agree with you.The jury can’t miss this one.I am not American,and l don’t know the laws,but there is people who should have knowledge about this and they should have go to the police.
Great insight … both of you!
My own mom tried to kill me … 1st time when I was 13 … I NEVER TOLD A SOUL until I was in my 50’s
In fairness my Mom was obviously very mentally ill. The difference in my Mom and Lori is that my Mom never tried to “cover” or “hide” her behavior … she honestly did not remember or “know” what she had done. As a child it was very confusing. But as I matured, I realized what “out of their mind” and “snapped” mean.
Sorry to hear that, glad your doing better!
Isn't that interesting! My mom was abusive and could have really hurt us as kids. In my 20's I heard her laughing and essentially bragging to her friend about it. I had to put my foot down and she STILL doesn't truly acknowledge how really torturous she was.
Interesting, and traumatising for you, it seems to me that the brain can become very unwell, changing a person beyond recognition, heart attack of the brain, this strikes me about Lori, but not Chad, I think he really believes what he is preaching, Lori mentally unwell. Respect to your strength. 🤗
I think this happens a lot more than people think. So sorry for your having to carry this so long. Hope you’ve not let it define you.
Thx so much everyone for your kind words and responses. Thankfully, God healed me long ago from the abuse.
I only mentioned it to bolster the view point and discussion; and to hopefully help illuminate the stark difference between Lori’s actions before, during, and after these horrific events - and how different it was for my mom and her actions. I’m not “excusing” my Mom, but I do realize her untreated illness.
Also, to illuminate the possibility that Audrey and some of the others may be being completely truthful in their recounts of things they witnessed. When a person in position of high trust in our lives - especially when we are particularly vulnerable and impressionable - destroys that foundation in our life, it affects us on several levels, and commonly takes significant time to unravel and come “to terms” with.
I also was surprised that Melani B. Discussed with Lori, and seemed to believe, that her oldest child was also a zombie. This makes the ongoing court custody thing that she has going on with her ex-husband Brandon about their children or any children very very disturbing. I can certainly see some manipulation now in her inability to testify in this court case.
Don’t forget that she has access to her step kids too. Good thing their dad married this weirdo after meeting her for 10 days. Complete lack of care.
@@dejuhvu1793 he could have been trapped by the fact that she was pregnant and then they had a child together. But unless he is as dumb as a box of rocks he should have dropped her home from the hospital alone and run.
@@spongebobsqueezeShe just had the baby. They’ve been married fir 3 years. If I were Ians’s ex-wife I would not want my kids near Melani. I read or heard that it was Ian’s wife who first became aware of that Tylee and JJ were missing and Ian was told about it, that’s when he went to the police. Ian felt guilty and decided to finally tell Melani.
I think that both Melanie’s and Zulema are not innocent in this whole nightmare and should be prosecuted. Also David, Melanie’s husband.
That’s scare me.when a mother means her children.are “dark “. I wonder if she need some help,And if l was grandmother to her children l will ask the children’s father to be around them,maybe it will be right that they live with their father.
Prayers for Melanie's children and for Brandon! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 I hope she never gets custody of them! Ian should watch his children closely too! Very scary!!!
I picked up on the “I need to get to the mental place to do it” when she threatened Audrey. It sounded like a confession of how she was able to participate in the murder of her children and Charles. I have always believe she had her hand in the physical murders .
💯
Your probably right was Lori's hair found on the duct tape !
Here's the thing though, Lori's now late husband did say something. Melanie P's ex-husband did say something, Melanie P's current husband said something and nobody was listening.
Dr. John, thank you for your insight about Audrey's testimony, that she'd been a victim of this cult & it was consistent with DV type verbal abuse. Lauren, I look forward to your lunch lives each day. Your emotions of grief, shock, and anger definitely come through and we all empathize with you.
A. Baratteiro, like others associated with L and C, was afflicted with conflict of affection/dedication. Her affection for L overrode her concern for "dark" souls, as she believed in Chad's spiritual teachings, until she saw firsthand the way Chad and Lori carried on with each other right after Tammy's death. At that point, she connected the dots. Later, she confronted Lori when they were alone and was threatened.
I often wonder what response Chad thought he would get to his words and actions. For example, when he went to show Lori off to his neighbors. Obviously they were shocked, confused, embarrassed. But I don’t think Chad realized that this was how they would feel. I wonder if he believed that they would be happy for him. Or impressed that he got himself such a “hot” woman. Like he wanted them to respect and admire him and maybe be a little jealous. I feel like this is the response he thought he would get.
Thank you both! Dr John I felt exactly the same way about Audrey. She reminds me a lot of me many years ago. I've had many situations which I too struggled through. I truly love your podcast. Not only do we receive free therapy (lol) I learn so much from you two. Be safe.
I love the transparency … from a momma of 6! Thank you guys, I truly love it!! ❤️
I had 2 very close friends who were narcissists and if ever they felt threatened in any way (usually a threat to their ego) they would suddenly turn very cold and sometimes it was very shocking and frightening.
You poor thing that's a lot of narcissistic "friends"!!!
The thing that stood out to me about Chad's interactions with the neighbors...His chutzpah. The judge I used to work with described "chutzpah" as someone who kills both his parents and then throws himself on the mercy of the court because he's an orphan.
Chad and Lori both lost their sense of "knowing your audience."
Thank you, Dr. John and Lauren! Both of you see everything clearly, and both of your professional opinions were very helpful to understand this unbelievable crime! As a mother, this crime is still difficult to comprehend. All these murders were not for religion and power, it was just for sex and free money!
Morning from UK ,it’s 6 am and I’ve just woken up so I just missed you both❤ Watching on replay now thank you both for this .😊
I agree with Dr. John on this one.
I see it like a mean girls group it’s great and you go along until they turn on you.
She realized that all are expendable and it scared the bananas out of her
I love the balance between Lauren and Dr. Babe. I found myself having a hard time believing Audrie as well, but after hearing Dr. Babe was also more willing to give her testimony a chance. ALSO, the insights on Gibb! I can’t stand GIbb for her obvious lack of empathy to the kids. It’s Tylee but also JJ. She didn’t/doesn’t like either of them and could care less that they were plotting their deaths. It’s so disturbing that these women were allowed back into society with no repercussions for their involvement. And Gibb has the nerve to stand there and say “Oh I”m ALWAYS a nice person!” No lady, you are narcissistic and twisted in the head, but you are not nice.
Dr. John I always love to hear your perspectives especially with Audrey. You explained it so uncomplicated that makes total sense. Especially how Audrey acted like she did. She almost sounds like she has suffered some kind of DV herself prior to all of this.
Great Podcast from both of you. Lauren I can’t wait to hear the interview with Janelle. 🙏
Audrey was on board but shocked by Tammy’s death. Then when she saw Chad and lori together things really started to dawn on her.
She knew Tammy was gonna be killed . Remember she tweeted a gif of death when lori sent her the rating for Tammy .
Charles “said something” and the police ignored him.
That was heartbreaking - he did the absolute best he could to protect the kids
Do you know how many people report their exes as being crazy? There’s only so much that police can do, it gets turned over to investigators, and it’s their job to do more if there’s something that’s a arrestable. The police didn’t let anybody down, they get a small snapshot into what is going on. The people around them have an entire lifetime with them and didn’t even know what was going on.
Adam too.😡
So true
If only someone had listened
On April 6 I went to the police because my doomsday housemate had prepared to kill me as soon as I became a zombie. I was BELIEVED and he was arrested that night.
I’m still shaking.
1:12:55
I’m new to Hidden True Crime. When do they go live?
It’s disgusting that so many people stood by and were complicit but we still have Chads trial and then there’s Arizona and standing trial for Charles murder .. 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
Thanks to both of you for your dedication to following this case all along.
I 100% agree with John about Audrey being honest and furthermore, between that and the hair on JJ I have now decided she was hands on with both of the children. I think Alex was support for her in those actions but she was why we saw so much overkill with the kids. I had a terrible opinion of her before the trial and now somehow I see her as even worse.
I’m with you on this. I think Lori is even worse than I ever thought, and I thought she was really bad before.
Just because Audrey told the truth on the stand doesn't get her off the hook.
Yeah I could see her being so narcissistic to think that those are HER kids and therefore she'll be the one to take them out of the world. I think it's possible that alex rendered the kids unable to fight, lori finished them when they couldnt fight back, and chad disposed of the bodies. I def think chad is the one who mutilated Tylee's body so badly.
They recovered a roll of duct tape that could have been at Lori's apartment. The hair (Lori's) could also have been transferred from Alex or Chad. They were all together so much it may be hard to "prove" that LV was actually at the scene or participated. Don't get me wrong...she is totally capable of being part of the "hands-on," imo!
Jess, same here. Since the trial, the truth, they're WORSE.
You really are a dream time! Thank you so much for your hard work. Once again, I learn so much from Dr. John.
Lori was infuriated that Audrey was smart enough to see through her and strong enough to walk away.
Dr. John is spot on! So glad I found this channel, thanks to both of you
Love your show. The way Dr. John helps us make sense of this compels me to keep watching. Try to look for the lives but it doesn't always work out due to my work schedule. Amazed how you are both so dedicated. Since I haven't followed this case from the beginning I have looked for and watched your previous episodes to help fill in the blanks. I have become a huge fan and am hooked. Love from Albuquerque.
I so enjoy your RUclips videos. Thanks for doing them.
Thank you for your coverage & insight into this awful crime x
Lauren ~ I think you’re looking at this through your mind and not your heart. Logic will never understand illogical behavior. There maybe childhood trauma around blindly trusting but at the heart of it Audrey is just a little girl in a woman’s body. And not all wounds are visible ~ domestic violence is rarely seen ❤️
Thanks! Dr John ... right on as usual.
Yay! I’m so glad Dr. John weighed in on Audrey. My initial reaction was to believe her, but I admit I began to doubt my instincts when everyone criticized her story.
From Audreys testimony I got the sense the Melanie woman was being pushed to the side to make way for Lori. I believe Audrey was saying her heart was going out to Melanie and she wanted to be with her and support her as much as a true friend would.
However when she started to Realise just how vicious Lori truely is she wanted out
I didn’t get the impression she thought for one minute Chad and Lori where capable of doing anything as horrendous until Tammy’s death
That’s when she get suspicious asks Lori
Lori goes septic at being questioned especially by someone who had been up to now so accepting, gullible timid and yes naive
Even with the castings I don’t she thought murder
And then
Leaving a cult situation is notoriously difficult at best.
All the questions we may have about Audrey she will have about her self
Always love hearing your insights Dr. John and Lauren.
Continued prayers for your brother Lauren...
I feel Alice was the first “outside” person that we got to see so affected by all these deaths. Hearing her cry for the kids who she never met or have no connection to was gut wrenching. I know she was on the stand for Tammy but she did so much for the kids too. It validates all of our emotions and feelings for the kids and Tammy and Charles because we have no connection to any of this.
“I have a big heart”, I heard it as she’s probably been second guessing herself, and maybe that is how she’s processed it. By telling herself that “I have a big heart”. Maybe it’s just become part of her narrative, and how she’s made peace. I absolutely believed her, and felt sympathy. I am mad at all the people who made excuses instead of standing up. Not everyone can do that though. Thank you for the coverage!!
I love this channel but really like when dr John analyses ❤
Good morning from Norway 😊 I get your videos in the morning, because of the time difference.
A good think to wake up to 😀👍
Lauren, you mentioned you are in part attracted to true crime because you used to be more naive. I totally relate to that. I was very sheltered and homeschooled until I was 14 years old. My parents were also affiliated with a polygamist group for a period of time when I was a young child. I experienced a lot of secrecy, and “we are special”mindset as a child. I feel like my whole life I’ve been playing catch-up on understanding what normal behaviors are and/or frequently second guessing myself.
Listening to true crime seems to be a little therapeutic in reminding me that I am fine because clearly there are plenty of examples of people who aren’t. LOL
I’ve really enjoyed listening to all your HTC content. I listened to a few other podcasters prior to finding yours but they were so off base. Then I found yours and instantly agreed with everything regarding the Daybell case.
Thank you to both you and Dr John for your amazing work on this.
Linda on It’s A Crime has a 144,000 subscribers reference on her letter board. She’s been following this case from the beginning.
And ??
Healing energy for your brother, Lauren.❤❤❤Strength for your family.
I always learn a lot when I listen to both of you, thanks for the great video.
OMGSH!!!! Thank you for these vids.
Audrey used to be in my institute class back in Orlando Florida in 2009. we have pictures together. Haven’t heard from her since I left to BYU that same year. until today I heard she was involved with the Lori daybell case and was absolutely blown away. How in the world was Audrey connected to this case and I had no clue this entire time. WTF!!!
Exactly who I wanted to hear from. Lauren and Dr John. Thank you for taming the storm of this week 😉
I just admire both of you and I can just imagine that darling little B knocking on the door. That warmed my heart after talking about all the craziness going on in the world.
Also don't forget what Lori said while in a beauty pageant, that she's a "ticking time bomb" because of the stress of everything she has to do to be a good wife and mother. And she was a lot younger then. She's been scary her whole life and just got worse over the years.
Thank you, Lauren, and Dr. John!
Thank you both so much for being good people & caring so much for the victims, truth & justice . God Bless you both ❤❤🇳🇿🇳🇿
Sending love and strength for you
This reminds me of a foilie a deux. The madness of 2 people who become one.
Lauren: interesting comment re Chad’s sexual interest in Audrey. Totally possible. Also did you catch Tylee’s comment on the PD’s video when she came back with Lori at Charles’ murder: when Lori was asked if she would go to get a psychiatric evaluation, Tylee seemed to say under her breath, “yeah because they would lock you up” or something similar?
That poor kid. 😢
She said they would give Lori a padded room. And it's sad that she did not tell the truth. The girl was constantly seeking Lori's approval.
I’ll never hear random phrases like “the storm is basically the downfall of corrupt government and politicians,” with complete equanimity ever again after today 😂
'the downfall of corrupt government and politicians' That sounds like a quote from one of the First Born, Preparing a People false prophets. They were big anti-government, deep state, sowing distrust. Populism 101, common to many cults and splinter groups and no wonder considering the disregard of rules and laws
Thank u Lauren and John❤❤
Sending positive thoughts for your brother ❤️
I LOVE you guys. I enjoy your marriage energy of working together and sharing thoughts. Youre doing good work so that we, the public, don't go crazy trying to understand what is really impossible to understand. Thumbs up from my heart
Everyone keeps saying she should have said something...however, Charles tried to tell others...no one believed him or acted upon it. Thanks again for doing all you do! Love from the Atlanta area!
Love your interviews, working my way through all of them. Nate and Pretty lies and Alibis and your channel all great work 💜
Great dad Dr John Glad to see you both back love show.
Happy your both back tonight
I never doubted Audrey for a second. As an abused child and adult, I know exactly how it sounds when an abuser wants to terrorize you. You can’t imagine the terror of a death threat.
I aree with you both,No matter how many times Melanie Gibb,David Warwick,Zulema Pas tenes,and Aubry B. try and justify the "Why's" they did or didn't believe Chad and Lor theyi all had a responsibility to say something! My question for you both is why Ian Palowski was the only one to agree and wear a wire to try and help find the kids? Were they all brainwashed?
Audrey was honest, and she’s still scared. When I heard her testimony, listening to her voice, it rang true to me.
I felt her words and FEAR in Audrey’s voice were completely believable. I feel those that don’t feel she’s sincere are more judgmental of others.
Judgmental on Audrey's poor judgment? Sceptical of witnesses testifying about why they did nothing over conspiracies on a quadruple murder? If we're going to go here we may as well say that they're all manipulated victims, including Mel Gibb, Zulema and Melaniece.
Her testimony made the hair stand up on my arms!
@@amberncambro Same. Major red flags as Audrey testified and then of course to hear the texts yesterday contradict what Audrey had said in court just days earlier. I made sure to listen to Audrey twice, made it easier to compare all of the places where she expresses sorrow, regret and shame with the ones which are more forced, for effect
I agree with Dr. John! Audrey is credible and was terribly at sorts if she was going to share. She knew throwing that out might hurt her case, but she still shared.
Thank you ❤
Love you’re discussions. Such a good balanced discussion. Glad to see you both back on here. To me Lori is a female version of her father, that’s why she was the golden child.
⏩ *Lauren, ORANGE is really your color!* You look BEAUTIFUL in that orange pullover. (And tan! 😘)
So glad I found you guys love your format
Today was the most important day of the trial. If we had one day in court to convict her…today is it!
Dr. John has made some great points and im only a quarter in!