This was my favorite episode by far lmaoooo The arguments about the tier list and Tweek's wild statement about death battles made me burst out laughing at work.
@@xanander4693 I think she is good but not top 10 that's for sure. Maybe top 20 but God damn you really have to get your set ups for kills she does have set ups but she has to win neutral sooo much. Plus she's light top 10 lightest characters I think. Considering her kill power and damage output lol. She's carried by frame data and speed but that is not all that matters
@@Avatarbutters I just love it when a random comment tries to pass their opinion as fact 🤣. Pink is probably stating what he seen based on what's happening in the underground of Sora's meta, I don't think anyone can actually fathom what's being found. it's not just Kameme, it's the Sora labbers who are sharing information and tech with players who want to use them. Clearly, not many soras have been actually looking into it, so the general smash community is stunned when Kameme lands these things but there's soo much more. I'm also guessing you've never seen Kameme's MU chart either. Pink is correct, Sora's only terrible MU's are Diddy and Fox. Every single one he had under sora favored (which was a big chunk of characters) he proved right (especially during his Masume's run), it wasn't outplaying, the opponent had no options. The reason why people are just figuring it out is similar to what Larry's been saying the whole time "The tech is there, the Sora mains are just bad at keeping up with it." the same could be said with Peach, Sheik, Joker etc. It's a lot of work.
pick em up if hes that much better then the rest, stop crying. If u care about winning, you will do it if he is that broken/spoiler he is not), and if you play for fun, u should stop complaining
This episode just shows how mindblowingly balanced this game is. I don’t think you kids understand from a game design point of view what an achievement it is by Nintendo.
@@KaxMerg how about keep minecart like it is but if you’re within 1,5 minecarts distance from the opponent it just clanks and Steve falls out. Making it much more reactable :)
Sorry but I just cannot see Sheik in S tier without a second thought, she’s very good in low stress friendlies environment sure but in those scrappy tournament situations where hits reset neutral there’s so much on the line she’s just not on that same level. Whereas some characters like Sonic Rob or Wario actually do better in a tourney setting
@@TopOfAllWorldsI go to tournaments, been to a few regionals and stuff, I personally don't really value the stress or whatever when making a tier list. However, shiek just works so hard to get every ounce of damage and every stock, she's just HARD to play consistently(I'm a shiek Joker Co main)
Listening to Angry Chuck when talking about people going low tiers at tournaments was so funny. Also really need to know Pink's second insane take after saying Sora is top 5.
I have a typing job where I type all day and got carpal tunnel symptoms. Luckily I didn't want surgery and decided to look up hand stretches. Ended up dedicating literally 5 hours in that very day to these stretches and the very next day I ended up having no pain. I started doing a stretching routine daily and haven't felt these symptoms since. Highly recommend hand stretches to deal with hand issues.
Hey Tweek I’m sure you’re getting a ton of advice already but I’ve had some pain in my wrists and fingers from smash mixed with working a 9-5 on a computer! I’ve had a ton of success treating this by doing yoga 2-3 times a week. Getting on your wrists and working all muscles aside from the ones moving your fingers is the best way to treat pain and tendinitis! You’ve got this man wish you all the best in your recovery :)
37:43 This one is for Tweek One time Richie Business showed up to a random PSW playing Game and Watch He said that he saw Maister playing and said “I could do that too!” He lost to Sync round 1 and left
The fact that you have to even CONSIDER giving a character his own tier just says how broken they are smh. For example Kazuya is stupid broken too but you don’t hear anyone giving him his own tier. And for Steve ,the community has the nerve to say “oH LeArN thE MaTchUP” like bro stfu were humans not robots. You make one mistake against those characters it could HIGHLY cost you your stock or game
Gavin! Try using a rubber band to extend your fingers and expand your hand. Also alternating hot bath to cold bath can help. Very low resistance reps, even kneading clay, can pump fluids to the tissue and help recovery. Of course only if it is not painful.
This tier list is so crazy lol. No reason Shulk should still be in S tier at this point, and there really shouldn’t be so many characters in S tier period.
@@connorvine6096Why do people think results is all that matters? Mark my words, there's gonna be a shulk that goes crazy soon and people are gonna go crazy and put shulk in top 10
@@jaydenhohman2590Because results show actual evidence of a character being good, Shulk on paper sounds and looks like a top tier but little to no results means lack of evidence for that to be true.
@@jaydenhohman2590 Top players and their Sheik placements bro. Look, I don’t think Sheik is as bad at all. But is the character really worth playing when there are so many characters that can do so much more for so much less execution. (Steve, Kazuya, Min Min, G&W)
I want to believe Lucario is way better. Lucario being comfortably in A tier would be awesome as hell. He's just too inconsistent with his advantages and flaws (Aura, frame data, combos, kill confirms). But yeah, Lucario is a REAL sleeper character with potential. I wish Greninja was more prevalent and successful in the meta, oh well. I want PT to be an easy top tier again. I'd love to see more PT action in the meta with Quidd, Atelier and many more.
Yeah lucario is sick as hell imo, a slight weight buff and removal of aura (power level being set to 80% aura all the time) would make him way better and more fun
My top 5 would be Steve, Sonic, Game n Watch, Pikachu and then Peach as S Tier. The top top of A tier would then be pretty packed with Lucina, Joker, Cloud, Mario etc., then stuff like P&M, Palu and Wolf below that is solid A
While this was a fun watch, I think the first tier list episode in the series was the best way to go about it since it felt the most structured and I enjoyed the discussions. Still a good watch though.
I think the Steve tier should be called "Special Tier" Unless that's what the S in S tier stands for idk. I just think that character is special so much so he shouldn't be in this game the way he is. It's insane lmao. I would kinda, sorta put Kazuya in that tier too but not because he's THAT good, but because of some of the things he can do. Joker is like the perfect character for the number 1 spot on S+, because he's really good but isn't "special" outside of his Arsene thing I mean he almost is, but isn't enough to be in the Special tier. Maybe if he had Arsene up 24/7 then he would be special too for sure lol.
Pikachu is the definition of a character who isn't getting pushed by the player base AT ALL. He's great, not Top 5 great but he is long overdue for some tournament wins and better results.
If you're going meta, you pick up someone else, especially if you're looking for ease of use. Any effort put into pika can be returned twofold by picking up gmw. They're the Lucina to Pam's "swordie top tier" or the inkling to mario's "short fast combo character", power-crept by time.
Some people not considering Smash Bros a fighting game still baffles me. Yea it has items and it can be considered a party game, but it'd still call it a party fighting game at the very least. It still is what it is at the end of the day.
Considering how Street Fighter 6 has a mode that adds items and stage hazards like Smash, there is legitimately no good excuse for Smash to not be a fighting game nowadays.
56:44 "So you have 2 years to train with one Link and then if you lose, you die" Void : "..I'm gonna spend the 2 years not practicing, enjoying my life. Two years playing ssbu and then losing and I DIE ?? Naaah, nah. Not me !" xD That was hilarious !
Yk what ima be honest, Lucas is the BEST character in ultimate. He’s melee jigglypuff bc it’ll take a while to figure him out but he’s the best. Great frame data best off stage edge guarding game with pk thunder invalidating half of the recoveries in the game, and it being better than Nikita bc u can just carry people with it. Lucas also has the best movement with the snake dash and momentum reversing with djcz mid air as well as great air mobility and b reverses and wave bounces. This isn’t even mentioning his ridiculous combo game. Up air can combo into itself like 4 times and nair if timed right has to be SDId. As long as you account for a specific direction, you can force them to SDI towards the ledge and throw them off stage. Additionally djcz Comboes can carry characters offstage and low percents where Lucas will give them a hard time with his edge guarding and two frames. Plus u can just run off stage and kill many characters with pk fire at 80 or they air dodge and give you more time to edge guard. His onstage game and disadvantage are his only weaknesses but he has amazing shield pressure with forward air, ftilt dtilt and he can parry to make up for slow nair out of shield. Additionally he can use zair to help out his weak approach game or just not approach and spam pk fire. Plus, his movement mix ups with pk freeze, pk fire, zair and magnet allow him to escape disadvantage if u know what ur doing. And he has snake dash which can be used to space for ward air, cross up opponents and do so much more. I think he is the most slept on character in the entire game and if a good rep picks him up, he could become the best character in the game. Players are way too results biased, and don’t look at the potential of some of these characters, Aegis will fall off and so will cloud because their weaknesses are too glaring and they don’t have top 10 strengths that other characters do. If Lucas gets into the meta he’s going to be an even more broken steve as he invalidates the entire cast off stage, it’s his choice whether you live or die, and if he wasn’t so confusing and weird compared to the rest of the cast he would have been figured out a while back.
I can understand Sora since we are now seeing Kameme showing the scary potential of the character. Not only that, Sora is the only FP2 character who has never gotten nerfed meaning someone can find a broken techs, infinites, combos. Shiek on the other hand isn’t good. You need to do so much just to do the damage and harder to pull kills with her
1:42 haz is so fucking funny😂😂 I love this podcast so much I have so much fun listening to y’all talk about the game and the community. You all are such inspirations
Let me rephrase, she’s one of the hardest tournament characters. There’s no reason to work that hard to get a 0 to 40 combo when characters like Lucina and Wolf exist. Incineroar is more threatening than Sheik lowkey 💀 Sheik is very strong but often has to hella outplay her opponent. She has no jank. I respect you tho for playing Sheik in 2023 that must be stressful
I play shiek and I personally disagree, I don't really think she's the hardest character in the game. She does lose a few matchups, but I wouldn't say that kills the character.
I'm sorry I don't appreciate the Mario and Roy shade. Mario i kinda understand because he does have bad MUs and gets shut out by Steve, but he is still ridiculously good in neutral and can win in two interactions. Like one stray hit or grab at zero and another at 35%, and your opponent is dead. That is two interactions. Cloud can Bair you all game but that doesnt matter once Mario grabs you. Now Roy? Nah I don't get that one. I know results have fallen off drastically since Kola hasn't been top 8ing everything, but the character is still as strong as ever. His damage output, kill ability, and neutral are criminal. They have no business being all in the same character. He is like fox with a sword that hits as hard as incineroar. He has reliable kill confirms starting at 60% when one advantage state can do 70%. I agree with Gavin that his recovery is not as bad as people say because of how fast it is and how far he snaps ledge. You can't contest up B, so you take his jump, but he has Fair to swat you away like a fly. The most I see Roy's recovery being a problem is Roy mains SDing because they accidentally fast fall too much. His biggest weakness is getting combo'd, but you have characters like Fox and ROB with that same issue. People say his sour spots are terrible, but since you just have to get as close as you can to your opponent, you can just think of Roy as a brawler with a slight disjoint rather than a sword fighter. Because that's what he is. His strengths are so mind boggling, he loses no real relevant MUs other than maybe Aegis and G&W, has close to negligible weaknesses, is easy to play in bracket and as a whole, and still has results despite falling off. And that's not even starting on his air to air, anti air, stray hits, OOS, shield pressure, and ledge trapping. No excuse leaving him out of top 10.
I think y’all are vastly underestimating yink (and pac should be at least a few placements higher) but all in all I think this is a pretty good tier list
Imagine this, all of your skill is wiped from your brain, now you have to pick one character to get good at in 2 years to save your life, who you picking???
Steve in his own tier and Sonic #2? Already a W list Happy to also see people starting to acknowledge GnW again, that char has ALWAYS been top 10 I stg Aegis hype put people off him but that char is messed up The Tink Yink argument and the reactions to that, especially Pink's and Void's, cracked me up LMAO
Someone explain to me Sheik and dont use Void. Cause when the last time he made top 8 anything and thats the best rep ever. Not hating on Void at all at all but Sheik is aiiiiiiiight
I'm really tired of seeing people overrate Shulk. He has some jank sure, and some attributes that make him seem really good, but his fundamental flaws just can't be ignored. A majority of the S tiers have aerials that come out in less than half the time it takes for Shulks fastest aerial to come out. I was once a devoted Shulk main, and the amount of times I have tried reacting to my opponent and getting stuffed by their faster moved is just astounding. Go watch a set between a Shulk player and any of these other characters and slow down the footage. Take a shot everytime you see the start-up for one of Shulk's moves only for it to be beaten by a faster one that was inputed after that start-up happened. It's even more simple than that though. He's just too slow to accomplish anything in a lot of situations. Try to play him. Of course monado arts make him tricky, but the real trickiness lies in actually hitting a competent opponent with anything in his kit. There just isn't the representation or results to show that he is in the same tier as fucking Joker or Aegis. It's not that Shulk players aren't trying, or that he just hasn't reached some hidden potential. It's that he genuinely sucks ass and has no place in top tier. Every other top tier is not only significantly better, but also easier to play. There are hardly any Shulk players for a reason, and after playing him for over 5 years, I finally stopped coping and dropped him.
Ok pal, let's say your delusion comes true. Does one break out performance prove a character is top tier?? Ok why isn't incineroar up there then? The reality is, Shulk is an inconsistent mess that will never have a real place in the meta. Trust me, I want to believe he's good, I really do. It hurts me to drop my favorite smash character, but I've suffered too long playing this character thinking it will get me somewhere. People who have chosen not to play him have made the right choice. Just play Roy, Cloud, Aegis, or hell even Ike (he's at least more consistent)
@@jaydenhohman2590 That's a massive problem with this community, character not winning super majors=bad. Bro Ice Climbers and Incineroar and hell even Lucario over in Japan-has better results than 80% of the cast, doesn't mean they're top tier. Recency bias and "If I didn't see it happen its not true" is just stupid. You have factual data to look at, like frame data, kill confirms and kill percentages, overall moveset and damage output etc to all look at but some people only seem to care about what top player they saw win with the character and just outright deny literal facts and numbers that you can look up yourself. For example, Cloud as a character is A tier, but everyone puts him in S tier now cause of Sparg0.
PINK IS SPITTIN but i wouldn't say top 5 lol i would say around peach or pacman, if we had more than 1 Kameme i think Sora being a top tier would be more valid. Unfortunately the player base is ass and there isn't a top level player that plays him otherwise. Also shulk is one of the most overrated characters in the entire game, manado being his only broken ass move and some big aerials does not make him top tier.
Well its the fact that Steve has that tech which makes him unplayable making a tier on his own is deserved. The two you mentioned has weaknesses which can be exploited
@@yourheroes5874 almost every top Steve and multiple other top players have said that PMLG sucks, watch acola playing against Mute or Sparg0 and then say that Steve has no weaknesses that can be exploited.
There needs to be a "washed top tier" sub-tier. Lucina, palu, roy, cloud (not washed but he was never high s tier), yoshi, and shiek go there imo. They're all too hard, or don't have enough of oni thing or another.
What character would you pick if when you win a tournament you can never pick that character again, like it's retired and no one will ever defeat your pocket "random"?
Tweek, look into what musicians do with tendonitis. I've had plenty of woodwind player and string player friends that have battled with this, is something to take seriously
Yes the game I have nobody to talk too or play with has tweek giving me some discussion to listen too.
Try to find a local in your area 💪🏾
@@Keystone762 the closest local is 2 hours away in the city sadly.
Same. I can't leave my house so this show is nice.
I felt this so hard living in the middle of nowhere
my roommates won’t play with me anymore because i win every time 😂
This was my favorite episode by far lmaoooo
The arguments about the tier list and Tweek's wild statement about death battles made me burst out laughing at work.
I love seeing all of them argue over this, it’s hilarious
35:17 Kitty 37:29 Kitty 2
This podcast was insane and unhinged. Best episode yet.
Kitty 🤙🤙🤙
Tierlist Episode Pog, also this is the 100th episode for Haz so thank you for your service on this show
NOBODY ELSE REMEMBERED THANK YOU
@@Hazmatt I gotchu Haz, Italians cannot forget one another!
The fact that the title says "attempted" ya I can already tell this is gonna be fun lmao
28:57 Man I love when Chuck pops off like this lmaoo
One of the best podcast episodes. Everyone still showing so much passion talking about the game
Sheik and Sora S-tier.😄I love it. It's fun hearing their takes and debating all of these characters.
Sora is decent and overrated on this list lmao
@@Avatarbuttersso is sheik
@@xanander4693 I think she is good but not top 10 that's for sure. Maybe top 20 but God damn you really have to get your set ups for kills she does have set ups but she has to win neutral sooo much. Plus she's light top 10 lightest characters I think. Considering her kill power and damage output lol. She's carried by frame data and speed but that is not all that matters
@@Avatarbutters I just love it when a random comment tries to pass their opinion as fact 🤣. Pink is probably stating what he seen based on what's happening in the underground of Sora's meta, I don't think anyone can actually fathom what's being found. it's not just Kameme, it's the Sora labbers who are sharing information and tech with players who want to use them. Clearly, not many soras have been actually looking into it, so the general smash community is stunned when Kameme lands these things but there's soo much more. I'm also guessing you've never seen Kameme's MU chart either. Pink is correct, Sora's only terrible MU's are Diddy and Fox. Every single one he had under sora favored (which was a big chunk of characters) he proved right (especially during his Masume's run), it wasn't outplaying, the opponent had no options. The reason why people are just figuring it out is similar to what Larry's been saying the whole time "The tech is there, the Sora mains are just bad at keeping up with it." the same could be said with Peach, Sheik, Joker etc. It's a lot of work.
@@Avatarbutters not really
Sora being S tier and a top 5 character is crazy. But then again, seeing how Kameme is evolving the character, I can see Sora being a menace
The Void segment was hilarious. Also I would love to see varied tier lists like the TAS tier list
An unnerfed Steve is unquestionably in its own tier
Steve had as many top 8 reps this season as captain falcon, learn the matchup dummy
pick em up if hes that much better then the rest, stop crying. If u care about winning, you will do it if he is that broken/spoiler he is not), and if you play for fun, u should stop complaining
@@doma9847He’s quite literally not complaining. Steve is just the strongest character by a noticeable margin, that’s all.
@@doma9847 good morning friend. lol nobody’s complaining. It was simply a response to them deciding whether or not to put him in his own tier.
@@mrfahrenheit6114 real one…
This episode just shows how mindblowingly balanced this game is. I don’t think you kids understand from a game design point of view what an achievement it is by Nintendo.
totally agree. it could be a lot worse even with some cringe in top tier
@@KaxMerg all they would have to do is nerf Steve slightly IMO
@@AndreasSaag just remove minecart. give him like mac side b and he would still be the best character in the game. only slightly trolling^
@@KaxMerg how about keep minecart like it is but if you’re within 1,5 minecarts distance from the opponent it just clanks and Steve falls out. Making it much more reactable :)
Sorry but I just cannot see Sheik in S tier without a second thought, she’s very good in low stress friendlies environment sure but in those scrappy tournament situations where hits reset neutral there’s so much on the line she’s just not on that same level. Whereas some characters like Sonic Rob or Wario actually do better in a tourney setting
Sheik is just so insane tho
Yes. I'm sure you know more than a litteral top 5 player about high stake scenarios.
@@TopOfAllWorlds bruh this is just a fun discussion chill
@@TopOfAllWorldsI go to tournaments, been to a few regionals and stuff, I personally don't really value the stress or whatever when making a tier list. However, shiek just works so hard to get every ounce of damage and every stock, she's just HARD to play consistently(I'm a shiek Joker Co main)
I mained sheik and switch to Lucario and god damn getting kills so much easier even as 0% Lucario lol
Listening to Angry Chuck when talking about people going low tiers at tournaments was so funny. Also really need to know Pink's second insane take after saying Sora is top 5.
Glad Tweek and Haz think Banjo is underrated, Toriguri finally putting the character on the map
I have a typing job where I type all day and got carpal tunnel symptoms. Luckily I didn't want surgery and decided to look up hand stretches. Ended up dedicating literally 5 hours in that very day to these stretches and the very next day I ended up having no pain. I started doing a stretching routine daily and haven't felt these symptoms since. Highly recommend hand stretches to deal with hand issues.
Young link is actually broken when players don’t just spam arrow and run.
Yes ! Hard agree
I mostly agree. I think his only issues are range and recovery. Arrow's good range, but you give up stage to use it like that.
Hey Tweek I’m sure you’re getting a ton of advice already but I’ve had some pain in my wrists and fingers from smash mixed with working a 9-5 on a computer! I’ve had a ton of success treating this by doing yoga 2-3 times a week. Getting on your wrists and working all muscles aside from the ones moving your fingers is the best way to treat pain and tendinitis! You’ve got this man wish you all the best in your recovery :)
37:43 This one is for Tweek
One time Richie Business showed up to a random PSW playing Game and Watch
He said that he saw Maister playing and said “I could do that too!”
He lost to Sync round 1 and left
The fact that you have to even CONSIDER giving a character his own tier just says how broken they are smh. For example Kazuya is stupid broken too but you don’t hear anyone giving him his own tier. And for Steve ,the community has the nerve to say “oH LeArN thE MaTchUP” like bro stfu were humans not robots. You make one mistake against those characters it could HIGHLY cost you your stock or game
Gavin! Try using a rubber band to extend your fingers and expand your hand. Also alternating hot bath to cold bath can help. Very low resistance reps, even kneading clay, can pump fluids to the tissue and help recovery. Of course only if it is not painful.
This tier list is so crazy lol. No reason Shulk should still be in S tier at this point, and there really shouldn’t be so many characters in S tier period.
Lmao for real Shulk doesn't win a damn thing and he's had years to do so
@@connorvine6096Why do people think results is all that matters? Mark my words, there's gonna be a shulk that goes crazy soon and people are gonna go crazy and put shulk in top 10
Shulk absolutely does suffer from lack of representation and lack of good representation at that
I think it’s fair to call Shulk an A tier character tbh, but I just think S tier is a little much when they already have so many characters up there
@@jaydenhohman2590Because results show actual evidence of a character being good, Shulk on paper sounds and looks like a top tier but little to no results means lack of evidence for that to be true.
This was the funniest episode I've seen in the podcast, Cant wait for the Up B tier list one !
PIKA IN TOP 10 LET'S GOOOOOO
Tweek boasting Diddy every chance he gets is funny af 😭😂😂
Charles in this episode is S+ compared to every other episode he's been in
They discovered Carlito pog
BRO chuck's Link question was so fucking funny
Seeing Zero Suit next to Olimar in the thumbnail gave me heart palpitations
You’d better think Olimar is better
@@verfunchtby six miles at least bro 😭😭😭
@23:10 Haz and Pink's faces lmaoooo
Again @39:03 😂😂😂
I honestly think that Sonic is straight up the best character in the game, and It doesn’t help either that he also beats Steve.
There is no world in which Joker is below street Aegis. Gentleman, attractive, Arsene, base Joker with good recovery, stylish, likeable ✅
Late upload but Im glad y'all came thru per usual.
I am loving Charles energy here. I’m all the way with you my bro!😊
You are out of your mind if you think Marth is A tier.
True
I swear top players have their own agenda when creating tier lists. They rank their characters lower and rank clearly worse characters higher.
@@goldman1996FACTS. Tweek put Diddy in a good spot tho. However I DO NOT think sheik is better than Diddy lmao
@@jaydenhohman2590 Top players and their Sheik placements bro. Look, I don’t think Sheik is as bad at all. But is the character really worth playing when there are so many characters that can do so much more for so much less execution. (Steve, Kazuya, Min Min, G&W)
Marth is good
man, i hate when people don’t finish tier list 😭
I want to believe Lucario is way better. Lucario being comfortably in A tier would be awesome as hell. He's just too inconsistent with his advantages and flaws (Aura, frame data, combos, kill confirms). But yeah, Lucario is a REAL sleeper character with potential.
I wish Greninja was more prevalent and successful in the meta, oh well.
I want PT to be an easy top tier again. I'd love to see more PT action in the meta with Quidd, Atelier and many more.
Yeah lucario is sick as hell imo, a slight weight buff and removal of aura (power level being set to 80% aura all the time) would make him way better and more fun
It's funny that they say Steve can't zero to death but Kazuya is right there 😂
My top 5 would be Steve, Sonic, Game n Watch, Pikachu and then Peach as S Tier. The top top of A tier would then be pretty packed with Lucina, Joker, Cloud, Mario etc., then stuff like P&M, Palu and Wolf below that is solid A
55:05 "Toon Link is the best link"
That's so BULL CRAP 😂😭😂
Nothing bettet then seeing everyone smiling in the biginning
47:49 tweek’s sigh before saying DDD is fundies 😭😭
While this was a fun watch, I think the first tier list episode in the series was the best way to go about it since it felt the most structured and I enjoyed the discussions. Still a good watch though.
Lets get the links debate a chance, all of the podcast member will practice the link they chose for a week, and the winner gets 100 dollars
Thank you tweet, for respecting the sonic speed
I think the Steve tier should be called "Special Tier" Unless that's what the S in S tier stands for idk. I just think that character is special so much so he shouldn't be in this game the way he is. It's insane lmao. I would kinda, sorta put Kazuya in that tier too but not because he's THAT good, but because of some of the things he can do. Joker is like the perfect character for the number 1 spot on S+, because he's really good but isn't "special" outside of his Arsene thing I mean he almost is, but isn't enough to be in the Special tier. Maybe if he had Arsene up 24/7 then he would be special too for sure lol.
Sora enthusiast: TALK TO EM PINK!!!!
Pikachu is the definition of a character who isn't getting pushed by the player base AT ALL.
He's great, not Top 5 great but he is long overdue for some tournament wins and better results.
If you're going meta, you pick up someone else, especially if you're looking for ease of use. Any effort put into pika can be returned twofold by picking up gmw. They're the Lucina to Pam's "swordie top tier" or the inkling to mario's "short fast combo character", power-crept by time.
Some people not considering Smash Bros a fighting game still baffles me. Yea it has items and it can be considered a party game, but it'd still call it a party fighting game at the very least. It still is what it is at the end of the day.
Considering how Street Fighter 6 has a mode that adds items and stage hazards like Smash, there is legitimately no good excuse for Smash to not be a fighting game nowadays.
56:44 "So you have 2 years to train with one Link and then if you lose, you die"
Void : "..I'm gonna spend the 2 years not practicing, enjoying my life. Two years playing ssbu and then losing and I DIE ?? Naaah, nah. Not me !"
xD That was hilarious !
nooo Lucas is top 10 bc he can edge guard everyone in the game and has meta knight combined with djcz, Zair approaches, and a melee wave dash.
Yk what ima be honest, Lucas is the BEST character in ultimate. He’s melee jigglypuff bc it’ll take a while to figure him out but he’s the best. Great frame data best off stage edge guarding game with pk thunder invalidating half of the recoveries in the game, and it being better than Nikita bc u can just carry people with it. Lucas also has the best movement with the snake dash and momentum reversing with djcz mid air as well as great air mobility and b reverses and wave bounces. This isn’t even mentioning his ridiculous combo game. Up air can combo into itself like 4 times and nair if timed right has to be SDId. As long as you account for a specific direction, you can force them to SDI towards the ledge and throw them off stage. Additionally djcz Comboes can carry characters offstage and low percents where Lucas will give them a hard time with his edge guarding and two frames. Plus u can just run off stage and kill many characters with pk fire at 80 or they air dodge and give you more time to edge guard. His onstage game and disadvantage are his only weaknesses but he has amazing shield pressure with forward air, ftilt dtilt and he can parry to make up for slow nair out of shield. Additionally he can use zair to help out his weak approach game or just not approach and spam pk fire. Plus, his movement mix ups with pk freeze, pk fire, zair and magnet allow him to escape disadvantage if u know what ur doing. And he has snake dash which can be used to space for ward air, cross up opponents and do so much more. I think he is the most slept on character in the entire game and if a good rep picks him up, he could become the best character in the game. Players are way too results biased, and don’t look at the potential of some of these characters, Aegis will fall off and so will cloud because their weaknesses are too glaring and they don’t have top 10 strengths that other characters do. If Lucas gets into the meta he’s going to be an even more broken steve as he invalidates the entire cast off stage, it’s his choice whether you live or die, and if he wasn’t so confusing and weird compared to the rest of the cast he would have been figured out a while back.
I lost it when they put Shiek & Sora in S tier ngl. There are some other weird placements but I'm not gonna go into detail
I can understand Sora since we are now seeing Kameme showing the scary potential of the character. Not only that, Sora is the only FP2 character who has never gotten nerfed meaning someone can find a broken techs, infinites, combos. Shiek on the other hand isn’t good. You need to do so much just to do the damage and harder to pull kills with her
Y’all should do a Formal Bracket.
Write your own tiers and then tally medians.
I love suspense.
Mario Kart 8 is such a "mainstream" game, but it's so good. A ton of content and it's always fun with friends
Shoutout to production for smooth transitions during the podcast
pt main here, but i'm glad i secondary G&W from hearing those opinions lol
1:42 haz is so fucking funny😂😂 I love this podcast so much I have so much fun listening to y’all talk about the game and the community. You all are such inspirations
Let me rephrase, she’s one of the hardest tournament characters. There’s no reason to work that hard to get a 0 to 40 combo when characters like Lucina and Wolf exist. Incineroar is more threatening than Sheik lowkey 💀 Sheik is very strong but often has to hella outplay her opponent. She has no jank. I respect you tho for playing Sheik in 2023 that must be stressful
I play shiek and I personally disagree, I don't really think she's the hardest character in the game. She does lose a few matchups, but I wouldn't say that kills the character.
I'm sorry I don't appreciate the Mario and Roy shade. Mario i kinda understand because he does have bad MUs and gets shut out by Steve, but he is still ridiculously good in neutral and can win in two interactions.
Like one stray hit or grab at zero and another at 35%, and your opponent is dead. That is two interactions. Cloud can Bair you all game but that doesnt matter once Mario grabs you.
Now Roy? Nah I don't get that one.
I know results have fallen off drastically since Kola hasn't been top 8ing everything, but the character is still as strong as ever.
His damage output, kill ability, and neutral are criminal. They have no business being all in the same character. He is like fox with a sword that hits as hard as incineroar.
He has reliable kill confirms starting at 60% when one advantage state can do 70%.
I agree with Gavin that his recovery is not as bad as people say because of how fast it is and how far he snaps ledge. You can't contest up B, so you take his jump, but he has Fair to swat you away like a fly. The most I see Roy's recovery being a problem is Roy mains SDing because they accidentally fast fall too much.
His biggest weakness is getting combo'd, but you have characters like Fox and ROB with that same issue.
People say his sour spots are terrible, but since you just have to get as close as you can to your opponent, you can just think of Roy as a brawler with a slight disjoint rather than a sword fighter. Because that's what he is.
His strengths are so mind boggling, he loses no real relevant MUs other than maybe Aegis and G&W, has close to negligible weaknesses, is easy to play in bracket and as a whole, and still has results despite falling off.
And that's not even starting on his air to air, anti air, stray hits, OOS, shield pressure, and ledge trapping. No excuse leaving him out of top 10.
Fax
I was as surprised as Marcus when Tweek said Sephiroth is good. Now we're talking. 😈 42:20
33:13 Oh yeah the Insta kill ❤️
"Sheik is better than Kazuya" I do not see it. Sorry.
Godd the intro is so awkward lol, at this point the cringe is a tweeek talks trademark 😂
OMG the fight for your life tournament question made me laugh so hard! Great podcast guys!
I think y’all are vastly underestimating yink (and pac should be at least a few placements higher) but all in all I think this is a pretty good tier list
Imagine this, all of your skill is wiped from your brain, now you have to pick one character to get good at in 2 years to save your life, who you picking???
Steve in his own tier and Sonic #2?
Already a W list
Happy to also see people starting to acknowledge GnW again, that char has ALWAYS been top 10 I stg
Aegis hype put people off him but that char is messed up
The Tink Yink argument and the reactions to that, especially Pink's and Void's, cracked me up LMAO
How take: lil Mac is a high mid tier character, he can dog on a lot of characters that have to approach him.
i love seeing the minmin player call roy horrible LMAOO
Someone explain to me Sheik and dont use Void. Cause when the last time he made top 8 anything and thats the best rep ever. Not hating on Void at all at all but Sheik is aiiiiiiiight
Eim got top 8 at kagaribi this February
Doesn’t Steve lose to Sonic? I wouldn’t really put a character in their own Tier if they have actually a losing MU
And Cloud
I think that Sheik should automatically be in B tier by default on any Tweek Talks tier list.
Ahhh! I wanna know why Tweek was so sure of his Link choice! #LinkMainsUnite
This episode was two tiers above the rest 👍
bruh chuck might be the funniest human alive 33:50
Finally someone , a top player speakin facts about lucario 😊 definitely then people like talk about.
I'm really tired of seeing people overrate Shulk. He has some jank sure, and some attributes that make him seem really good, but his fundamental flaws just can't be ignored. A majority of the S tiers have aerials that come out in less than half the time it takes for Shulks fastest aerial to come out. I was once a devoted Shulk main, and the amount of times I have tried reacting to my opponent and getting stuffed by their faster moved is just astounding. Go watch a set between a Shulk player and any of these other characters and slow down the footage. Take a shot everytime you see the start-up for one of Shulk's moves only for it to be beaten by a faster one that was inputed after that start-up happened.
It's even more simple than that though. He's just too slow to accomplish anything in a lot of situations. Try to play him. Of course monado arts make him tricky, but the real trickiness lies in actually hitting a competent opponent with anything in his kit.
There just isn't the representation or results to show that he is in the same tier as fucking Joker or Aegis. It's not that Shulk players aren't trying, or that he just hasn't reached some hidden potential. It's that he genuinely sucks ass and has no place in top tier. Every other top tier is not only significantly better, but also easier to play.
There are hardly any Shulk players for a reason, and after playing him for over 5 years, I finally stopped coping and dropped him.
Shulk is busted my friend, results just really don't matter. It only takes 1 player to do really well at a major. The time will come
Ok pal, let's say your delusion comes true. Does one break out performance prove a character is top tier?? Ok why isn't incineroar up there then? The reality is, Shulk is an inconsistent mess that will never have a real place in the meta.
Trust me, I want to believe he's good, I really do. It hurts me to drop my favorite smash character, but I've suffered too long playing this character thinking it will get me somewhere. People who have chosen not to play him have made the right choice. Just play Roy, Cloud, Aegis, or hell even Ike (he's at least more consistent)
Shulk is top 10 and always will be
@@jaydenhohman2590fax
@@jaydenhohman2590 That's a massive problem with this community, character not winning super majors=bad. Bro Ice Climbers and Incineroar and hell even Lucario over in Japan-has better results than 80% of the cast, doesn't mean they're top tier. Recency bias and "If I didn't see it happen its not true" is just stupid. You have factual data to look at, like frame data, kill confirms and kill percentages, overall moveset and damage output etc to all look at but some people only seem to care about what top player they saw win with the character and just outright deny literal facts and numbers that you can look up yourself. For example, Cloud as a character is A tier, but everyone puts him in S tier now cause of Sparg0.
I love hearing people complain about g&w I was saying that character was top 10 for all of ultimate
King K Rool is slept on.
29:20
The DK slander is crazy
Charles’ Toon Link take is so based.
They think greninja is overrated, but put sheik in S tier. Can't see the logic here.
Pink talking my language i think Sora is a top 10 character personally
PINK IS SPITTIN but i wouldn't say top 5 lol i would say around peach or pacman, if we had more than 1 Kameme i think Sora being a top tier would be more valid. Unfortunately the player base is ass and there isn't a top level player that plays him otherwise.
Also shulk is one of the most overrated characters in the entire game, manado being his only broken ass move and some big aerials does not make him top tier.
Aegis and Sonic are definitely in Steve tier imo.
Well its the fact that Steve has that tech which makes him unplayable making a tier on his own is deserved. The two you mentioned has weaknesses which can be exploited
@@yourheroes5874 almost every top Steve and multiple other top players have said that PMLG sucks, watch acola playing against Mute or Sparg0 and then say that Steve has no weaknesses that can be exploited.
Lucina is cracked and funny to see how bad they think she is 😂
Young link is WAY WAAAAAY too low
There needs to be a "washed top tier" sub-tier. Lucina, palu, roy, cloud (not washed but he was never high s tier), yoshi, and shiek go there imo. They're all too hard, or don't have enough of oni thing or another.
finally i can have an opinion about the game
charles woke up mad as hell lmaoooo
I feel like Kazuya has to be S tier because so many of the stages are broken for him - FD, HB, SV, Kalos, Town & City
What character would you pick if when you win a tournament you can never pick that character again, like it's retired and no one will ever defeat your pocket "random"?
This episode is just mad hilarious and goated
Shiek S-tier 😲
Oh nice! They did a joke tier list, that's pretty fun
this episode is goated fr
Gonna tell my kids this was eminem
Congrats and welcome to parenthood Pink!
Tweek, look into what musicians do with tendonitis. I've had plenty of woodwind player and string player friends that have battled with this, is something to take seriously