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The scientific method is the "it's just..." method. The idea is to eliminate the amazing, the enthusiastic, the fantastic and tell us that it's just... Love is "just serotonin and endorphin cascades." After death experiences are "just oxygen deprivation to the brain." The feeling that you are meeting someone you already knew in another life is "just psychological projection of a parental image." And so on and so on and so on. In college my professor said, "In the West a mystery story is one in which, at the end there is no mystery. In medieval mystery stories, there was no idea that the mystery had to be 'solved.' It's purpose was to contemplate again and again reaching deeper levels of understanding and inspiration each time."
Really great discussion! I can't help but see a similarity in the way Dr. Kripal suggests treating those who have impossible experiences and groups like Alcoholics Anonymous. There is the acknowledgement that the experience happened and there is no way to control it. There is the search for others who have had a similar experience. Finally there is the admission that no human force or technique can cure the person.
❤Loved❤ this mind opening & engaging conversation. Also that blue colour makeup scheme looks fire on you Angela!! 🎉🎉 (However I bet you can pull any look off lucky 😁🥰) X 🤍💖🔥👌🏻🔥
27:00 i try to keep a foot in each world. I'm admittedly a skeptic and i think there are "paranormal" phenomena which are nearly irrefutably socially explainable (There is strong evidence for many UFO/abduction phenomena being rooted in sci-fi, for example.) I'm willing to entertain that in many of these cases there is some kind of in between, even. The interdimensonal phenomena is an interesting example of that that i personally don't agree with, but that i can totally understand leaning towards, but what i share in common is the notion that we are "seeing/experiencing SOMETHING", but poorly contextualizing it based on biased/flawed human reasoning and perception. I, in fact, have had experiences that i cannot explain, that involved other people who experienced them the same way. But i've also had experiences that I WAS able to reduce to social phenomena, in a variety of ways, from cognitive biases like "Bandwagon effect" or "Truth bias" all the way to delusions and memory manipulation. I had a phenomena that i thought was happening for awhile that I later realized was me having a panic attack, which would occasionally excite the fight/flight response to the extent i would erroneously perceive objects around me as shadowy figures. Later, even when i did not SEE them, i assumed they were there because i saw the anxiety feeling as a direct signal of what i thought was "Dimensional overlap", meaning that a shadow person had crossed into my dimension, or made itself perceptible. Eventually i even started to "Try" to see them, and in essence what i did was to replicate "Visualization techniques" and then alter my memories based on those techniques, and then reinforce those alterations through social reinforcement. One day I "Came to" in the middle of doing it, and actively analyzed and put in to words what i saw myself doing. From that point on, it was no longer possible for me to experience this phenomena past the very start of the process, at a certain point i would realize what i was doing and couldn't proceed in the way it had. For a long time i dipped entirely into the skeptical side of my personality, i was constantly debunking everything. I still lean far towards that side, but I had to go back to certain other experiences and reevaluate, and even at my most skeptical I've always been willing to at least entertain the possibility of certain phenomena, which many skeptics find childish or silly.
Also just as an aside, this clashing of skepticism and weirdness that i've experienced heavily shaped my interest in chaos magick, psycho magick, and discordianism. I started to realize what i was doing was a kind of ritual and had some power to it.
The issue isn't "rationalizing" these experiences. The issue is challenging a culture in which people's actual experiences are defined as marginal, "impossible" and thus somehow "unacceptable." There is a history to that norm. To act as if that is a "normal" action on the part of society and the institutions of power is to mystify that process and act as if it somehow a "given" that we must capitulate to. To me, the whole point of your archives and research into the topics it examines is, in fact, to challenge the hegemony of such definitions of acceptable human experience. Are we saying that it's OK to stockpile such information so long as no one has to take it seriously? To do so renders it a quaint hobby of some marginal academics whom no one cares about anyway.
According the DSM from which we derive a diagnosis of schizophrenia, should we want one, a clinician (or anyone else) is not supposed to diagnose a problem on a single indicator (such as seeing a 6' tall praying mantis in a purple cloak). In the absence of other symptoms of pathology, particularly lack of ADL's (attention to activities of Daily Living such as bathing and eating), ONE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DIAGNOSE ANYTHING LIKE SCHIZOPHRENIA. And, to make things more complicated, people are sometimes driven to "madness' because their "impossible experience" is invalidated, especially by professional clinicians and is medicated thus creating a deteriorating downward condition for the experiencer.
You mentioned that you don't think that science can prove magic. I disagree. I think they already have with E=MC2=h*bar*v . Energy, mass, frequency. I think the best example is a transformer, in the method of induction. Of course, that is with the mindset that magic is the application of energy to nudge an outcome towards the casters intent. Additionally, I think the story needs to be in how we define our sense of family.
Why not take the impossible up to the precipice of science and prepare for a journey into the unknown? "We've got provisions and lots of beer, prepare to meet the challenge of the New Frontier. "
Dr. Puca, thank you for another great video! Your guest *desperately* needs to take the jelly doughnut out of his mouth before he speaks. I could barely understand a word he said.
Unfortunately, RUclips won't let us put up subtitles with expletives deleted. A curated transcript of each video is available to Patreon members of all tiers. www.patreon.com/collection/87246?view=expanded
MY COURSES 👩🏻🎓 drangelapuca.com/course
WEBSITE & NEWSLETTER 💌 www.drangelapuca.com/#newsletter
BOOK A TUTORING OR A LECTURE 📖drangelapuca.com/services
BECOME MY PATRON! 🎩 www.patreon.com/angelapuca
SUPPORT ME ON KO-FI ☕ko-fi.com/drangelapuca
ONE-OFF DONATIONS 💰 paypal.me/angelasymposium
JOIN MEMBERSHIPS 👥 ruclips.net/channel/UCPSbip_LX2AxbGeAQfLp-Igjoin
MY PODCAST 🎙 open.spotify.com/show/2TKoWTGe6OKRokHN2zUIxM?si=dd9f50a734b14f86
MY MERCH 👕 drangelapuca.creator-spring.com/
Jeffrey kripals work made me know how to become immortal thank you!
Wonderful conversation. Thank you both.
The scientific method is the "it's just..." method. The idea is to eliminate the amazing, the enthusiastic, the fantastic and tell us that it's just... Love is "just serotonin and endorphin cascades." After death experiences are "just oxygen deprivation to the brain." The feeling that you are meeting someone you already knew in another life is "just psychological projection of a parental image." And so on and so on and so on. In college my professor said, "In the West a mystery story is one in which, at the end there is no mystery. In medieval mystery stories, there was no idea that the mystery had to be 'solved.' It's purpose was to contemplate again and again reaching deeper levels of understanding and inspiration each time."
Well I think.I now know where to go with my story ,I had just commented to you and then started watching this, again thank you for what you do!
I love your style! ❤️😊👍
Amazing interview thanks.
Our pleasure!
😃 Thank you, Jeffrey and Angela! I already shared your fascinating, enlightening, encouraging and inspiring talk! Keep up your great work! 😃
Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks so much for this conversation. Super important for people to hear this perspective.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another great interview! Thank you, Angela. Very insightful.
❤🙏❤️
Excellent conversation. Sharing with friends ❤
Really great discussion! I can't help but see a similarity in the way Dr. Kripal suggests treating those who have impossible experiences and groups like Alcoholics Anonymous. There is the acknowledgement that the experience happened and there is no way to control it. There is the search for others who have had a similar experience. Finally there is the admission that no human force or technique can cure the person.
Great conversation!
❤Loved❤ this mind opening & engaging conversation. Also that blue colour makeup scheme looks fire on you Angela!! 🎉🎉 (However I bet you can pull any look off lucky 😁🥰) X 🤍💖🔥👌🏻🔥
27:00 i try to keep a foot in each world. I'm admittedly a skeptic and i think there are "paranormal" phenomena which are nearly irrefutably socially explainable (There is strong evidence for many UFO/abduction phenomena being rooted in sci-fi, for example.) I'm willing to entertain that in many of these cases there is some kind of in between, even. The interdimensonal phenomena is an interesting example of that that i personally don't agree with, but that i can totally understand leaning towards, but what i share in common is the notion that we are "seeing/experiencing SOMETHING", but poorly contextualizing it based on biased/flawed human reasoning and perception. I, in fact, have had experiences that i cannot explain, that involved other people who experienced them the same way. But i've also had experiences that I WAS able to reduce to social phenomena, in a variety of ways, from cognitive biases like "Bandwagon effect" or "Truth bias" all the way to delusions and memory manipulation. I had a phenomena that i thought was happening for awhile that I later realized was me having a panic attack, which would occasionally excite the fight/flight response to the extent i would erroneously perceive objects around me as shadowy figures. Later, even when i did not SEE them, i assumed they were there because i saw the anxiety feeling as a direct signal of what i thought was "Dimensional overlap", meaning that a shadow person had crossed into my dimension, or made itself perceptible. Eventually i even started to "Try" to see them, and in essence what i did was to replicate "Visualization techniques" and then alter my memories based on those techniques, and then reinforce those alterations through social reinforcement. One day I "Came to" in the middle of doing it, and actively analyzed and put in to words what i saw myself doing. From that point on, it was no longer possible for me to experience this phenomena past the very start of the process, at a certain point i would realize what i was doing and couldn't proceed in the way it had. For a long time i dipped entirely into the skeptical side of my personality, i was constantly debunking everything. I still lean far towards that side, but I had to go back to certain other experiences and reevaluate, and even at my most skeptical I've always been willing to at least entertain the possibility of certain phenomena, which many skeptics find childish or silly.
Also just as an aside, this clashing of skepticism and weirdness that i've experienced heavily shaped my interest in chaos magick, psycho magick, and discordianism. I started to realize what i was doing was a kind of ritual and had some power to it.
Sadly i missed the stream, but really enjoyed listening to the video xD!
Glad you enjoyed!
Ty❤❤❤❤
Is there some way to listen to the "why you are scary" lecture?
The issue isn't "rationalizing" these experiences. The issue is challenging a culture in which people's actual experiences are defined as marginal, "impossible" and thus somehow "unacceptable." There is a history to that norm. To act as if that is a "normal" action on the part of society and the institutions of power is to mystify that process and act as if it somehow a "given" that we must capitulate to. To me, the whole point of your archives and research into the topics it examines is, in fact, to challenge the hegemony of such definitions of acceptable human experience. Are we saying that it's OK to stockpile such information so long as no one has to take it seriously? To do so renders it a quaint hobby of some marginal academics whom no one cares about anyway.
To refine your point, in case someone misses it, nuerodivergence, homosexuality and the trans experience are other marginalized experiences.
According the DSM from which we derive a diagnosis of schizophrenia, should we want one, a clinician (or anyone else) is not supposed to diagnose a problem on a single indicator (such as seeing a 6' tall praying mantis in a purple cloak). In the absence of other symptoms of pathology, particularly lack of ADL's (attention to activities of Daily Living such as bathing and eating), ONE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DIAGNOSE ANYTHING LIKE SCHIZOPHRENIA. And, to make things more complicated, people are sometimes driven to "madness' because their "impossible experience" is invalidated, especially by professional clinicians and is medicated thus creating a deteriorating downward condition for the experiencer.
🙏🙏🙏❤❤❤
You mentioned that you don't think that science can prove magic. I disagree. I think they already have with E=MC2=h*bar*v . Energy, mass, frequency. I think the best example is a transformer, in the method of induction.
Of course, that is with the mindset that magic is the application of energy to nudge an outcome towards the casters intent.
Additionally, I think the story needs to be in how we define our sense of family.
You heard the man, Angela, it’s all up to you now!
🤯
First!
Why not take the impossible up to the precipice of science and prepare for a journey into the unknown? "We've got provisions and lots of beer, prepare to meet the challenge of the New Frontier. "
Dr. Puca, thank you for another great video!
Your guest *desperately* needs to take the jelly doughnut out of his mouth before he speaks. I could barely understand a word he said.
Unfortunately, RUclips won't let us put up subtitles with expletives deleted. A curated transcript of each video is available to Patreon members of all tiers. www.patreon.com/collection/87246?view=expanded