Haha. I know the feeling. When I first started sculpting I really wanted a standard ratio. You could use something like 1:60 or 1:56 for 28mm, but you will still get some variation.
I had a same problem. I had a feeling my minis are too small, fragile, details are blending on the table. The biggest problem was with a lot of humanoids we have. We play DnD and my thinking was following: I want my minis to look as good as spacemarines from warhammer. I have reallized the problem might be in size. I picked the biggest of medium sized characters and I scaled it up as much as possible just barely fitting on 25mm base. I end up with 25% factor. I applied this scale on all my minis. My group has been nothing but happy since then :) Our minis are still nothing like space marines ofc, but details are much less blending and differences can be spot in faces of characters, which turned to be important for our humanoids. I would suggest everyone to do what makes you happy. We all know how hard is to prepare, print, clean and paint minis and you deserve to feel good about the result. We play DnD, thus our main heroic characters are medium sized. Those are always present on the board so it is important they are looking good. TBH it is great to have a nice dragon, but dragon is there once per 20 sessions? How often is mini used is also important metric for overall feeling. I suggest to adjust size based on your game. I also find this to be critical flaw of DnD mini standart.
Great analysis and I'm glad you found a size that works for you! I love the details I can get with a larger scale and have even started working on a much bigger model just to enjoy the heft and presence on the table!
I don't get too concerned by minor mismatches in scale. I've been involved in historical re-enactment for quite a few years, with a group that has a reputation for big fighters, both tall and heavy. And then there's this one guy... He stands about five foot three, and he's lean. In almost any fight, his opponent has a significant size advantage, with the reach and raw power that goes with it. But he's fast, precise, and graceful. He fights like he's dancing. It's amazing to watch him in action. If I was to line up him, myself and one of our bigger lads, the relative heights would be at least as far apart as a lineup of a 28mm model, a 30mm model, and a 32mm model. So I've generally been pretty happy to mix anything around 30ish, with more concern for differences in "heroic" vs more realistic proportions than overall size. Even before digital gave me the option of resizing figures fairly easily.
That's a good point. Height definitely varies and its a good idea to represent that. I think for me, the problem has always been the scale of heads. The heights themselves don't matter too much but when the head is twice the size it immediately stands out to me. I think this is why I have always avoided heroic scales.
This is awesome!!! Thank you for providing this vaulable tool. Currently I am printing up my new army and sourcing models from different creators. These scale models will let me refrence them against a control scale sample. You just got my Sub!
28mm to eyes is 1/62ish and 35mm to eyes is 1/48ish to me. I use 5 foot 8 inches to eyes as average human with about 6ft to crown of head. 1/62 & 1/48 match army models I have. Sometimes you just have to bulk it up purely for looks however.
Thanks for the clear video, I started out making "realist" miniatures but now prefer to focus on "heroic" miniatures, not necessarily with a 1/5 ratio for the head, more like 1/6. I find the heroic format too radical, so I hope my compromise will be pleasant in hand. And Happy New Year !! ;)
Thank you! I think that's a good idea. As printers and resin get better and better, I think there will be more room for realism but at the end of the day it's a limit of our eyes and perspective. Can't bring myself to go too heroic though hahaba
I scale and rebase almost everything to 35mm with 25/50/100mm bases. This video is truth. I have one mini stl on my desktop by which all others are scaled and started doing this about a year ago. Now I can't hardly stand looking at my out of scale minis to the point I have considered throwing them out but then I think about what a waste it would be and so I sit here every night haunted by tiny men.
I what printer would you recommend please? Tried to take a look at your webpage but images don’t seem to appear. Might possibly be my end with network but it should appear. Thanks
I have only ever used an Elegoo Mars 2 and haven't had any issues, but don't know much about other brands. The mars line is plenty big for printing minis but is just a bit too small for some terrain pieces or larger figures.
Your scaling explanation is more complicated than it needs to be. Scaling is based on the average height of the person, bottom of foot, to top of head, of 1.8 meters, or 1,800 mm. That means that 1/72 is equal to 1800 / 72, and that is 25mm. You can find scaling charts online that explain this and show where all the model scales, including train scales, fit within this mathematical standard. Companies are dishonest in this regard and conflate scales for the purpose of selling. For example Airfix does a fair job of scaling their models between HO (1/87), 1/76 and 1/72. The problem arises in that rather than retooling kits, they just relabel HO scale as 1/76 or 1/72, or 1/76 as 1/72. The wargaming community views 20mm to include 1/76 or 1/72, even though 20mm is technically 1/87 or HO scale. Then you have companies like Warlord Games that resell Italeri kits that are still 1/72 at 28mm. Another common issue in the historical skirmish wargaming community is that 28mm is conflated with 1/56 (32mm). A 1/56 scale tank next to actual 28mm figures looks opposite of smart. Then you run into scaling within scale for fantasy games with large monsters etc. The most recent development in the modeling industry is that they started measuring figures for "sculpting purposes" from bottom of foot to eye level. I think this change has two objectives from a business perspective. First it is a means by which scale confusion is created for consumers, resulting in expanding demographics within the hobby. Second it reinforces the above mentioned scale conflation between a correct 28mm figure and 30 to 32mm figures. So for example for a 32mm figure maker to market to 28mm buyers, will only list the foot to eye scale and not the foot to top of head scale. This will not be obvious with the packaging. It is my hope that the expansion of the modeling business via computerized 3D printing will correct this conflation and confusion over time.
Some great insights with the scale. Are you going to the hobby show this year? I'm out because I have a mandatory trip to Kyushu. Fingers crossed for 2024.
The main issue is that going large costs more, more lead, resin, space and time. Its easy to paint a 15mm as there less detail, 32mm can be too hard if need an army.
I agree, though I think the difference in amount of resin is pretty small, at least for 28-35mm. I think 15 would be better for an army game if you want a reasonable amount of space but 32/35 looks so much nicer in a skirmish size game. I guess one size doesn't really fit all
Thanks for your video. I could have sworn ShatterPoint scale was 45 when I first looked into it, and now when I double checked its 40. What is your opinion on that? The miniatures didn’t change, but the measurement have. Unless I was in delusional dream state and it was 40mm all along.
I think this is one of those issues that bothers some (like me) more than others. I get really thrown by mis matching scales and measurements but a lot of people don't seem to mind so much.
@@DiluvianChronicles I started my youtube channel to promote the terrain I create for tabletop gaming, and to be more efficient and trouble free, within my designs I incorporate risers so players print let say the building once, finish it and with the appropriate risers fitting 28, 32 or 45mm scale to the game they decide to play. So that 45mm scale is throwing me off into a spin.
Thank you! That's a good question actually. In the item menu (press "n" if you can't see it) I just set the z axis to the correct number of millimeters (28, 32, 35). Just make sure that your blender scene is set up to use millimeters as units instead of the default.
@@DiluvianChronicles thanks mate. scale has always been a tricky thing to get correct, I normally get the rough size of the creature/ humanoid as in real world height and then divide it by the appropriate scale. never thought to do it like you have done with the measure sticks.
I have preselected mini files I scale to, like you show. I get frustrated when I buy a file that's a scale and if I print without comparison and it's just off the rest of the collection I am adding it to. Thnx
I think that the producers should try to standardize minis' scales, some of them are OK with others' ones, such as Heresy,Pig Iron, Hasslefree and Croocked Dice ones, but others are way too huge. F.e. Die Hard Minis are really beautiful, but sadly are totally out of scale with all these former's, it's a pity, bcz their sci-fi range is really interesting. Think also how many customers SW Legion lost bcz their minis are too bigger than others.
Agreed! I think it's a bit silly we have so many variations around the same size. It makes sense to have a few major differences (15mm vs 28mm etc.) But to have so many "28mm" minis is a bit tiring.
I just wish we could use a ratio scale for miniatures.
Haha. I know the feeling. When I first started sculpting I really wanted a standard ratio. You could use something like 1:60 or 1:56 for 28mm, but you will still get some variation.
I had a same problem. I had a feeling my minis are too small, fragile, details are blending on the table. The biggest problem was with a lot of humanoids we have.
We play DnD and my thinking was following: I want my minis to look as good as spacemarines from warhammer. I have reallized the problem might be in size. I picked the biggest of medium sized characters and I scaled it up as much as possible just barely fitting on 25mm base. I end up with 25% factor. I applied this scale on all my minis.
My group has been nothing but happy since then :) Our minis are still nothing like space marines ofc, but details are much less blending and differences can be spot in faces of characters, which turned to be important for our humanoids.
I would suggest everyone to do what makes you happy. We all know how hard is to prepare, print, clean and paint minis and you deserve to feel good about the result. We play DnD, thus our main heroic characters are medium sized. Those are always present on the board so it is important they are looking good. TBH it is great to have a nice dragon, but dragon is there once per 20 sessions? How often is mini used is also important metric for overall feeling. I suggest to adjust size based on your game. I also find this to be critical flaw of DnD mini standart.
Great analysis and I'm glad you found a size that works for you! I love the details I can get with a larger scale and have even started working on a much bigger model just to enjoy the heft and presence on the table!
I don't get too concerned by minor mismatches in scale.
I've been involved in historical re-enactment for quite a few years, with a group that has a reputation for big fighters, both tall and heavy. And then there's this one guy...
He stands about five foot three, and he's lean. In almost any fight, his opponent has a significant size advantage, with the reach and raw power that goes with it. But he's fast, precise, and graceful. He fights like he's dancing. It's amazing to watch him in action.
If I was to line up him, myself and one of our bigger lads, the relative heights would be at least as far apart as a lineup of a 28mm model, a 30mm model, and a 32mm model.
So I've generally been pretty happy to mix anything around 30ish, with more concern for differences in "heroic" vs more realistic proportions than overall size. Even before digital gave me the option of resizing figures fairly easily.
That's a good point. Height definitely varies and its a good idea to represent that.
I think for me, the problem has always been the scale of heads. The heights themselves don't matter too much but when the head is twice the size it immediately stands out to me. I think this is why I have always avoided heroic scales.
This is awesome!!! Thank you for providing this vaulable tool. Currently I am printing up my new army and sourcing models from different creators. These scale models will let me refrence them against a control scale sample. You just got my Sub!
glad I could help! I hope your army turns out well!
Interesting exploration of scale, enjoyed this thank you 😊
Thank you!
28mm to eyes is 1/62ish and 35mm to eyes is 1/48ish to me. I use 5 foot 8 inches to eyes as average human with about 6ft to crown of head. 1/62 & 1/48 match army models I have. Sometimes you just have to bulk it up purely for looks however.
You are right the smaller you go the bulkier you have to make things for both aesthetics and durability
Thanks for the clear video, I started out making "realist" miniatures but now prefer to focus on "heroic" miniatures, not necessarily with a 1/5 ratio for the head, more like 1/6. I find the heroic format too radical, so I hope my compromise will be pleasant in hand. And Happy New Year !! ;)
Thank you! I think that's a good idea. As printers and resin get better and better, I think there will be more room for realism but at the end of the day it's a limit of our eyes and perspective. Can't bring myself to go too heroic though hahaba
I scale and rebase almost everything to 35mm with 25/50/100mm bases. This video is truth. I have one mini stl on my desktop by which all others are scaled and started doing this about a year ago. Now I can't hardly stand looking at my out of scale minis to the point I have considered throwing them out but then I think about what a waste it would be and so I sit here every night haunted by tiny men.
Hahaha I feel your pain!
I what printer would you recommend please?
Tried to take a look at your webpage but images don’t seem to appear. Might possibly be my end with network but it should appear. Thanks
I have only ever used an Elegoo Mars 2 and haven't had any issues, but don't know much about other brands. The mars line is plenty big for printing minis but is just a bit too small for some terrain pieces or larger figures.
Your scaling explanation is more complicated than it needs to be. Scaling is based on the average height of the person, bottom of foot, to top of head, of 1.8 meters, or 1,800 mm. That means that 1/72 is equal to 1800 / 72, and that is 25mm. You can find scaling charts online that explain this and show where all the model scales, including train scales, fit within this mathematical standard.
Companies are dishonest in this regard and conflate scales for the purpose of selling. For example Airfix does a fair job of scaling their models between HO (1/87), 1/76 and 1/72. The problem arises in that rather than retooling kits, they just relabel HO scale as 1/76 or 1/72, or 1/76 as 1/72. The wargaming community views 20mm to include 1/76 or 1/72, even though 20mm is technically 1/87 or HO scale. Then you have companies like Warlord Games that resell Italeri kits that are still 1/72 at 28mm. Another common issue in the historical skirmish wargaming community is that 28mm is conflated with 1/56 (32mm). A 1/56 scale tank next to actual 28mm figures looks opposite of smart. Then you run into scaling within scale for fantasy games with large monsters etc.
The most recent development in the modeling industry is that they started measuring figures for "sculpting purposes" from bottom of foot to eye level. I think this change has two objectives from a business perspective. First it is a means by which scale confusion is created for consumers, resulting in expanding demographics within the hobby. Second it reinforces the above mentioned scale conflation between a correct 28mm figure and 30 to 32mm figures. So for example for a 32mm figure maker to market to 28mm buyers, will only list the foot to eye scale and not the foot to top of head scale. This will not be obvious with the packaging.
It is my hope that the expansion of the modeling business via computerized 3D printing will correct this conflation and confusion over time.
Some great insights with the scale. Are you going to the hobby show this year? I'm out because I have a mandatory trip to Kyushu. Fingers crossed for 2024.
Oh no! That's too bad! I was looking forward to another chat! I will certainly be there. I have something special planned.
@@DiluvianChronicles Have fun!
yeah the space marines are about a head taller than a regular human so i think the scale checks out.
It's true. My main point is that it is hard to judge what a 28mm figure would be from looking at these models alone.
The main issue is that going large costs more, more lead, resin, space and time.
Its easy to paint a 15mm as there less detail, 32mm can be too hard if need an army.
I agree, though I think the difference in amount of resin is pretty small, at least for 28-35mm. I think 15 would be better for an army game if you want a reasonable amount of space but 32/35 looks so much nicer in a skirmish size game. I guess one size doesn't really fit all
@@DiluvianChronicles Over the four dozen minis you want for an army it adds up.
But a skirmish game go with what you like.
Thanks for your video. I could have sworn ShatterPoint scale was 45 when I first looked into it, and now when I double checked its 40. What is your opinion on that? The miniatures didn’t change, but the measurement have. Unless I was in delusional dream state and it was 40mm all along.
I think this is one of those issues that bothers some (like me) more than others. I get really thrown by mis matching scales and measurements but a lot of people don't seem to mind so much.
@@DiluvianChronicles I started my youtube channel to promote the terrain I create for tabletop gaming, and to be more efficient and trouble free, within my designs I incorporate risers so players print let say the building once, finish it and with the appropriate risers fitting 28, 32 or 45mm scale to the game they decide to play. So that 45mm scale is throwing me off into a spin.
nice vid. when you showed the blender scene and the scale sticks. sorry for the stupid question but what height did you make those?
Thank you! That's a good question actually. In the item menu (press "n" if you can't see it) I just set the z axis to the correct number of millimeters (28, 32, 35). Just make sure that your blender scene is set up to use millimeters as units instead of the default.
@@DiluvianChronicles thanks mate. scale has always been a tricky thing to get correct, I normally get the rough size of the creature/ humanoid as in real world height and then divide it by the appropriate scale. never thought to do it like you have done with the measure sticks.
No problem! I find it a bit easier to keep things proportional this way.
What program do you use at 6:04?
For drawing I usually use Clip studio Paint with a basic drawing tablet. Everything else is done in Blender
Ok ty I must have just missed it
No problem!
I have preselected mini files I scale to, like you show. I get frustrated when I buy a file that's a scale and if I print without comparison and it's just off the rest of the collection I am adding it to. Thnx
I am currently making my own TTWG like 40k with some friends and I'm making
that's great! what's the theme?
Heroic scale is a blight upon modelling - The models have the proportions of toddlers.
I kind of agree. Though it makes sense when modeling and casting physical minis.
I think that the producers should try to standardize minis' scales, some of them are OK with others' ones, such as Heresy,Pig Iron, Hasslefree and Croocked Dice ones, but others are way too huge. F.e. Die Hard Minis are really beautiful, but sadly are totally out of scale with all these former's, it's a pity, bcz their sci-fi range is really interesting. Think also how many customers SW Legion lost bcz their minis are too bigger than others.
Agreed! I think it's a bit silly we have so many variations around the same size. It makes sense to have a few major differences (15mm vs 28mm etc.) But to have so many "28mm" minis is a bit tiring.
Tubey guys = shako
Nice! Good Intel! I will try to remember that
I wish i could see these stood up next to chapstick
Good idea! How about a playing card? Or some other standard sized object
Creepy hands