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@@ericcloud1023 thank you so much! Your comment and support truly means the world to us. Couldn’t say enough how much this comment means to us here at SAMA. Thank you!
@@ericcloud1023 it’s a pleasure to talk with you! We have more great episodes coming that I think you’ll enjoy and some of them will also include Dr. Curta as well. About to record a guest in five minutes on “Viking Origins-DNA,” can’t wait!
Wow this video is so much nice and I really enjoyed this video it is so much knowledge full . I am able know so much knowledge from your videos than any book so I liked your channel so much please keep it up
Where dissipated bogomils from Bosnia and Balkan? We knows for Muslims (majority in Bosnia), We know for Catholics of Bosnia (Croats) and we know for Orthodox of Bosnia (Republika Srpska - Serbs). We don't know for ogomil part of Bosnia (but we know, before Turkish invasion on Balkan there was bogomils in Bosnia. Are bogomils converted in Islam? If so, Why and how? We know, on demand from pope in 1170 AD, King Dusan of Serbia exiled bogomils from Serbia to Bosnia. So, where they dissipated from Bosnia?
Bosnian Church and Bogomilism is actually not the same. Bosnian Church was a Christian church with many local (Slavic) specifics, sometimes under medium pressure of Catholics to synchronise with Catholicism more. Bosnian Church was the official religion of Bosnian Kingdom, later turning to Catholicism, which isnt even a giant change, it's just flavours and allegiances of christianity. Bogomilis were an unusual (dualist) sect from Bulgaria, often heavily persecuted and burned by the Orthodox Church. Bosnia was maybe a refuge for Bogomils, as being outside of Orthodox/Byzantine Sphere. But not for long since even Bosnian kings persecuted them later on.
@@miloshp7399 But later in the latter stages of kingdom of Bosnia the clergy of the Bosnian Church went into hiding in Hum and Hum was mostly Orthodox. There they merged with the local Orthodox.
I’m also from Hercegovina, and I’ve researched the Crkva Bosanska quite a bit. Generally one can say that they are «Eastern protestants» - not in communion with Rome or Carigrad (constantinople) but having more of Eastern practices and features, as for example the calendar, bosančica, etc
The Bogomili movement starts from the Balkans and flourished during Tsar Simeon Bulgarian the Great ruler and under his youngest son Veniamin - Boyan Maga, who was educated in Byzantium court / the School The great chamber. During the ruling of Simeon son's Peter I , the brother Boyan had full authority to develop the bogomili movement, from there they spread in Italy and France
Their is history of Cathars in England especially the Gnostic or Cathar hidden paintings discovered at the Piccotts at Piccotts end near Hemel Hempstead & a few Catholic Authorities heretic trials around the UK one awful one at Oxford historically recorded a group of Cathars sent out in to the elements during winter naked into a nearby forest sadly True look it up .
Hi and thank you for the video! As a Bulgarian I can tell you that Bogomils are studied in school as part of our history. Really interesting to see a different view, thanks again 🙏
The Bogomils were actually given more emphasys in school at time of the Communist regime before 1989, rather than today. The reason is the regime's propaganda tried to spin them in a more Marxist direction in the role of revolutionaries against the status quo. The sect came into being due to Armenian influences, especially the Paulicians. They often rebelled against the Byzantine rule in Eastern Anatolia and after defeating their uprisings, Constantinople regularly forcefully moved the more unruly ones in other regions of the Empire. Of course rather than moving them to regions inhabited by Greeks and close to the capital, they preferred to move them to other regions, like the Bulgarian lands. Due to these expulsions, we have the town of Pavlikeni for example. It comes from Pavlikyani and it literally means "Paulicians". Their religious beliefs intermeshed with the followers of Saint Ivan of Rila (AKA The Hermit of Rila), who is something like the Bulgarian version of Saint Francis of Assisi. He also called for modesty, helping out the poor and suffering etc. When he became hugely popular and Tsar Peter wanted to gain on this to boost his own standing with the people, he offered him a large sum to found a monastery, Saint Ivan rejected it, saying the tsar would do much greater good if he gives the money to those in need. In a way the Bogomils could be seen as a religious precursor to revolutionary socialism, although there is no direct link. They publically demonstrated their discontempt to both secular and church power in the presence of nobles, priests and monks, going as high as the Tsar and the Patriarch themselves and lived in their own collective communes. Their hathed for the Bulgarian Orthodox Church was so great, that when the Ottoman Turks havd conquered the Bulgarian lands and the Church has lost its political power in the society, rather than coming back into its fold, the Bogomils converted either to Catholicism or to Islam. The Uprising of Chiprovtsi was carried out by Bulgarian Catholics, who descended from the Bogomils. Catholic Bulgarian writers and activists, such as Petar Bogdan, Petar Parchevich and Franchesco Soymirovich, who petitioned the Vatican, the Holy Roman Empire and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to liberate the Bulgarian lands from the Ottomans also descend from the Bogomils-to-Catholics converts.
Tried for a long time to find Balkan sources on the Bosnian Church and Bogomilism and I found this! Great to listen to and not at least to learn from. Thank you guys, great video and theme!
It was done to destroy Bosnian Church. As they were saying Bogumils did not build churches and they did not believe in Old Testament. All churches were destroyed, king Tvrtko declared himself a catholic, Bogumils were minor population and orthodox churches were rebuilt again after the 15 century. They tried to destroy Orthodox Church.
@@InAeternumRomaMater I’ve never heard about it. I was born in BiH and my whole family was born or raised in BiH. It was impossible to believe in that since both Rome and Orthodox Church were making sure that no Bogumilism stays there.
Carl Jung talked about "the shadow"... he basically said religious men make the mistake to think the devil is an outsider, and doesn't want to admit there's a dark side in the unconscious. A video I can recommend that explains this more is "Carl Jung's Philosophy of The Shadow"
I've just begun seeing a Bosnian woman who came to the States aged 8. She's been kind of cryptic about her spirituality, but told me last night her family is Bogomil. I'd heard of it somewhere, but knew nothing specific. So I asked her if that was Christian or an Islamic derivative, she said "it predates those." Thinking maybe it was like one of these Zoroastrian/Druze type vestigial ethnic enclaves, I asked if it's monotheistic or animistic/pagan, and she paused before saying, "it's like Native American." I'm left with more questions than answers.
@@TotilaTheGoth there are other options dude. Like, she thinks she’s some kind if New Age prophet and doesn’t want to get pinned down. Like all spiritually deluded, ambitious people she wants to remain vague so she can be all things to anyone willing to buy what she’s selling (in this case some book she’s “channeled”). She got mad when I tried to pin her down and that was that.
Bogomilism isn't preserved. We get hints from others (Inquisitions) descibing the belief. So more likely New Age religion embracing the term Bogomilism.
I am a Bulgarian Orthodox. I am not fond of the bogomiles as you can guess. But the guy is talking straight to the point and is making some very well grounded conclusions. I will be glad to see more videos about medieval Bulgaria. Keep up the good work man!
Well...,maybe because "THEIR BIGGEST ENEMY WAS The BULGARIAN establishment(king etc etc)......it is a VERY WIDE TOPIC,...,so for now let me just say this,...,it was not Leonardo da Vinci,or Galileo or any OF THEM that STARTED TGE RENAISSANCE MOVEMENT...,it was the Bogomils
I am Druze Muslim, and we believe in exactly the same as bogomils and cathars. They are our brothers… same movement, and is probably is more ancient than Islam and Christianity together. It is true underground water way connecting us to the ancients
@@codenameeaglecooldown900 we think that true Islam is with us. Passed down through Fatima the daughter of the prophet. We don’t care if we are recognized or not. We are the founders of azhar, we give recognition.
Thank you, Dr. Curta and Nick. Part of my ethnicity is Slavic and part of that is Russian Jewish. I think my ancestors would have been Kievan Russ. I have learned a lot from the various videos here.
I'm Polish and I was always wondering if "Bogumili"/"Bogomili" were "those who love God" or "those loved by God", because it can mean both. Miły = nice, kind, loving.
The legend is that Bogomilism was founded by a priest named Bogomil. A contemporary author/priest and critic called him Bogu-ne-mil or translated into English as far as I remember: "His name was Dear-to-God or more like Not-Dear-to-God".
Here it is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_Against_the_Bogomils Sermon Against the Heresy (Church Slavonic: Бесѣда на ересь) is a polemical and didactic work of Old Bulgarian literature, written by Cosmas the Priest, a church writer close to Tsar Peter I of Bulgaria. Sermon bears the full title Homily of the Unworthy Presbyter Cosmas Against the Newly-Appeared Bogomil Heresy (Church Slavonic: недостоинаѥго козмꙑ презвѵтера бесеѣда на новоѩвивъшѫѭ сѧ ересь богоумилоу), or, in other manuscripts, Sermon of Saint Cosmas Presbyter Against the Heretics, A Discussion and an Instruction from the Books of God.
In Central Macedonia, there is still a village called Bogomila. It is believed it carries the name of Father Bogomil, who was probably born there or in the neighboring villages (most likely in Sogle). The river Babuna and the mountain with the same name are etimologically related with the Bogomils (Babuns).
15min They pop out of nowhere in Bulgaria in 10 cent.? -They came from Asia minor and they were called "massalian sect"... Occultist say they are have "Zoroastrian techings"....
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 cheers mate. I agree, special thanks to Dr. Florin Curta on his work on early Slavs and migrations. Hope one day we will know more about Thracians. 🙂 I will comment on what "we know" maybe it could be of some use...
25min. We do have "Slavic mythology". We were polytheistic pagans before Christianity. We had 3 main gods: Perun - Chief god -god of thunder -Simillar to greek word: keraunós - lightning (P)(k)eraunóus..?! -endemic plant in Balkans Iris ilirica- we call "Perunika" Amblem flower on Bosnian flag. Vid - "god magcian" ... who see everything, so he is somewhere called : "Svevid" or "Svetovid" or "Triglav". Greeks named him "Vidasus".. Даждбог/ Dajbog- sun god, and rebirth, and keeping cycle on.. As sun have "birth" at sunrise and "death" at sunset- he was wrongly related to god Veles God of underground... We belived time goes in circles.... We also had "minor gods". Svarog, Stribog, Crnobog, Morana... Just like saints today. As every house had their "god protector" that is what we believe the story where our "Slava" comes from. There was a great strugle between Christianty and paganism here. And it seems like we incorporated much of it into Christianity, like Serbian "slava" as we call it, Another example, we have saint "Vidovdan" as celebrating saint. In Serbian language "Vid" means: Vid - sight ; eyesight; be able to see Videti - to look; Vidati - heal ; to heal somebody Vidar - healer I think big subject easly skiped ..... Bogumils came here like forth side of the story, we we against Latins also.. 😅
Thanks for the great talks with Prof. Curta. I am not a historian and my interest is rather amateur but I came across an alternative view concerning the Christianization of Bulgaria. It seems that contrary to the textbook narrative Christianity was way more widespread in Bulgaria many centuries before St. Knas Boris I officially introduced Christianity as a state religion. The actual historical phenomenon was just this - creating the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. On the other hand, there seems to have been a kind of grassroots Christianity that had been around for some time evolving in a kind of unguided way, maybe going astray under the influence of other heresies, and Bogomils were maybe a reaction of this popular Christian belief to institutionalizing it.
That is in no way an alternative view. As being part of the Eastern Roman Empire before 680, when the First Bulgarian Empire was founded, these lands and its Hellenised population were already Orthodox Christians.
I think bogomils 'heretics' bosnian church and why they all flew/thrived in bosnia deserves a little bit more attention and would love another guest who could speak on it.
Becouse Bosna is place where it all began, but also where it all ended! Other thing, Bosnian heretics where never caled Bogumils but KRSTJANS.. Bosnian KRSTJANS was a monotheistic religion and which denied Jesus as God, but preached like Islam, and that is that Jesus is God's messenger
@@lidiabano4698 Most of them, main proof is that they think that roman christianity is devils creation, they suffered a lot becouse of Rome, 2 or 3 crusades were against Bosnia, they surely did not accept Ronan religion after all of that, you can be sure.. They mostly accept Islam becouse of similarities between teachings..
Bosnian Church and Bogomilism is actually not the same. Bosnian Church was a Christian church with many local (Slavic) specifics, sometimes under medium pressure of Catholics to synchronise with Catholicism more. Bosnian Church was the official religion of Bosnian Kingdom, later turning to Catholicism, which isnt even a giant change, it's just flavours and allegiances of christianity. Bogomilis were an unusual (dualist) sect from Bulgaria, often heavily persecuted and burned by the Orthodox Church. Bosnia was maybe a refuge for Bogomils, as being outside of Orthodox/Byzantine Sphere. But not for long since even Bosnian kings persecuted them later on.
As a Bulgarian follower I am reallly surprised to see this topic discussed. - Congrats from us. We have a nowaday movement in Bulgaria that represents the Bogomils philosophy and practice as well.
I also do not want to sound "too nationalistic" but the Bogomils had nothing to do with the "Greek philosophy" as the earliest related mystical schools in our land are The Zalmoksi, Sabazii, Dionis, Orfei and his, school, religious beliefs and reforms, who is definitely pre-greek. The Orfism is closely related to the Bogomils. So it is vice-versa-the old Greeks took some ideas from those pre-greek population and culture. There were also several great Thracian mysterious rites and centre's, some of them are presently in modern Greek (after the Balkan wars) but explaining them with Greek terminology means simply to miss the point. Some of them are in present day Turkey and some in present day Bulgaria, which is now cut in pieses. Those were the sources of the early ancient mystical culture-Eleusina, Perperek, Delhi etc. All those were pre-greek centers of wisdom.
Dr. Curta should be given a medal for introducing this topic to a wider audience, however some facts just escaped him. 1) According to St. Sava's Life of Stefan Nemanja, in 1186 Nemanja called a council against Bogumils who spread from Bulgaria, after which he started a systematic persecution against them, causing survivors to flee from Rascia/Serbia to Bosnia, so there are clear connections between Bogumils in Bulgaria and Bosnia. A few remained in Serbia as rulers up until the 14th century issued laws aganst them. 2) There were quite a few Crusades against Bogumils in Bosnia, all called up by the Popes and mostly acted on by a Hungarian king. Catholic church did also establish a Bosnian bishop sitting in Croatian town on Djakovo, being the bishop of Bosnia in name only. In a few ocasions kings of Hungary forced Bosnian rulers and nobility to give an oath against Bogumils 3) There are many unclear things about Bogumils in Bosnia; At different times Orthodox and Catholic church made their inroads. Local rulers protected them but were mostly ambivalent towards religion or made sure to support all religions alike. Nobility liked Bogumils because unlike Orthodox/Catholic church they did not need rich churches and lands, therefore Bogumils were not rivals for land. Upon fall of Bosnia to the Turks in 1463, Turkish sources/census talks about Bogumils as well, however it turns out that their numbers were negligent at that point compared to Orthodox or Catholics in Bosnia. At that point Bogumilsm was almost completely thing of past. Could this be because of pro-Catholic policy of the last 2 rulers of Bosnia, or were they ever a clear majority is largely unknown. They certainly held much more powerful positions before, and there are remains of the seat of Bogumil church in Mili near Visoko in Bosnia, at the heart of Bosnian medieval state. It is likely that Bogumulism was a doctrine which many locals found to be acceptable and worthy of belief at different times.
I have read that many Bogomils, due to persecution from both Orthodox and Catholic churches, converted to Islam after the Ottomans conquered the Balkans. Is it true?
@@mihaelac2472 While that narrative exists, it can not be proven in any way. As previously mentioned a few Turkish defters/census books of Bosnia towards the end of the 15th century paint a very different picture. They did distinguish all 3 Christian groups, and numbers of remaining Bogumils by that time were almost negligent - they were already for quite some time on the verge of disappearance. At the same time there was no significant Muslim population yet. That whole period is one chaos and large population movement. More realistic theory is that majority of Bosniak Muslim population today comes from sipahi's - Ottoman landowners/soldiers which had to withdraw from large parts of Hungary and especially Slavonia after the territorial losses the Turks suffered in the Great Turkish war (1699). These soldiers were probably initially recruited from various populations across the Balkans and likely included some feudal aristocracy before the Turkish rule that accepted to fight for the Ottoman cause. In a similar fashion Bosniak/Muslim population of Sanjak region in Serbia/Montenegro comes from Bosniak's that have left Bosnia upon Austrian takeover in 1878 and have then settled in an otherwise sparsely populated region.
@@stefanodadamo6809 History is a complex science that is proven with facts. Some regimes change it to propaganda which is not scientific. They wanted to , manipulate their people. The already dead artificial state called Yugoslavia used such propaganda. Unfortunately, many people still live in this fantasy. You may have a different perspective on gravity and believe does not exist. You can check it by jumping from the 5th floor. Ex Yugoslavian Titovists were more brainwashed than Stalinists and Hitler Nazists. Stalinists and Nazist had to change and they did. But modern Titovists mixed with nationalism still stay on that level they caused war and war crimes in 21st century. I do not trust Stalinists,Titovists and Nazis perspective on history :D It is your choice but I warn that mentality hurts at the end
@@carlustin4034 If he is Slavian and he lives in the Yug ("the South") isn't this itself making him Southern Slavian (Yugo Slavian)? I guess you don't even know a single Slavic language, yet you play a Slavologist here. Cheers from Poland to all Yugoslavian nations and their respective countries!
then learn about Bosnia then... Bosnia is old spiritual center of Europe.. for those "Heretics" of Europe... main thins is that is not dualisam.. it is anicent monoteizam, spread by Aphosto, Arius in 3st...
I watched this video this morning, curious but not super excited--I'd heard of the Bogomils but only in a vague context while reading about heresies in late antiquity and the medieval era (and I also read Foucault's Pendulum, which I loved, 25 years ago or so). By the end, I was amazed. This was one of your very best expert presentations/interviews. Dr. Curta was clear and fascinating in the content and consideration he shared. And Nick, your questions and overall handling of the presentation was maybe the best I've seen of yours, and I've seen almost every video at this point (give me a little more time, I'll see them all). Copious thanks and congratulations. This was excellent, informative, fun at every level.
Dr Florin Curta should visit Bosnia to increase his knowledge about the Bogomils’ history. This was the last bastion of Bogomils before the Pope’s crusade and the arrival of the Ottomans.
I am from Balkan and this video is full of lies. Bogumili were original Christians (practicly meaning the same thing) believing in one God not trinity. Sometimes in the east Slovakia-Poland-Russia called Staro verci translated "Old believers". Founded by apostle Paul. They were presecuted and killed by Chatolics and Ortodox.
The ancient beginnings of Thracian religion may influence Greek and Roman one. Not everything is Hellenistic as their culture look up to Egypt, they took knowledge of Mesopotamia. But Almost Nowhere Thracian culture is mentioned. Orfeus, Spartacus and Yes maybe Troy is not Greek! Great story coming out of the box of today’s Main Street narrative.
Greeks claim as Hellenic everything that suits them. Good for politics, tourism and mostly monetary profit! Also even ancient Hellenic civilization doesn't just belong to Greeks really. It's not like it happened 50 years ago. After all most of this Hellenic stuff happened outside of what is Greece today!
I just watched "The Origin of The Bogomils and their History" in You Tube with Dr. Curta. I learned a lot of amazing information wich I was able to match with some the history facts that I already knew and to find some connections that were necessary to have a more complete picture. My knowledge about this interesting subject improved a lot.
@@vmro9446 Most of your official history is a fantasy fairy tale, since you ask. But that part, that you are still Bogomils, I hear for the first time and it is hilarious! Great imagination!
Theophilus was a pseudonym for a specific Disciple. The Beloved Disciple who sat beside Jesus at the Last Supper; most likely Thomas called Didymus, the Disciple who was first to arrive at the Tomb but who did not enter.
Please, make a video about the isihasts, I am sure you and your audience also will enjoy it very much because their story is even more fascinated and interesting!
The term Bogomil in free translation means "dear to God", and is a compound of the Slavic words for "god" (Common Slavic: *bogъ) and "dear" (Common Slavic: *milъ). It may be also a translation of the Greek name Theophilos, literally "dear to God; loved by the gods," from theos "god" + philos "loved, beloved". It is difficult to ascertain whether the name was taken from the reputed founder of that movement, the priest Bogomil, or whether he assumed that name after it had been given to the sect itself. The word is an Old Church Slavonic calque of Massaliani, the Syriac name of the sect corresponding to the Greek Euchites. The Bogomils are identified with the Messalians in Greek and Slavonic documents from the 12th-14th centuries. Cosmas the Priest notes that they were infamous and vilified for maintaining multitudes of pre-Christian, Slavic traditions, including the playing of the Gusli.
Cant belive they dont even mention Bosnia, an old spiritual center of all european "heretics", country wich is most important for this subject! The land where Got bishop Wulfil whrite first arijan bible, on alphabet Bosancica! The land where was founder of Arijanisam lived to his death, aphostol Arius they do just show Bosnian thombstones Stecaks pictures, but no mention of its orgin land, so shame!
Arianism predates Arius and also his teacher Lucian of Antioch as Lucian was significantly influenced by his own teacher who is only known by the name of Macarius of Edessa, who was a layman teacher in the same accord as the Apostolic teachers of old, so if you want to pin point a founder then the trail would most likely go back to Jesus' day as Arianism is very much in line with the perception of Hebraic Monotheism found in the Tanakh, it is only coincidental that it is named after Arius despite him not being the founder. As an Arian myself I do not quite understand how you connect the Bogomils with Arianism because we have writings of Rastko Nemanjic from those days which have been translated by Miodrag Petrovic, these writings bear witness to the fact that the Bogomils in the Balkans were quasi Catholics masquerading as Orthodox Christians whose sole intention was to enlarge the presence of Catholicism among the Serbs and to subdue them and have them bend the knee in service to Rome. Whoever says that the Bogomils and Arianism are one and the same is mistaken because none of us were there to witness it, but Rastko Nemanjic was there and his writings clearly state that they were fundamentally Catholic, to say otherwise without citing sources from that time is wishful thinking at its finest.
hahaha oh man there is so much you dont know.. what does rastko and serbs have anything with Arianism? Goths and Arie was in bosnia houndrets of years before Serbs comeing to Balkan in 7st ! Today we have many old documents and records, which I just said, wich proveing continuity of a same belief in Bosnia lasted for 2000 years, at least that basis of belief ... to who West and the East opposed it so much against! But unfortunately many of these documents are not available to the public today, especially to you in the west or beyond ... however, as much as we have historical materials today, a hundred times more have been destroyed, burned and covered up ... Even in the last war in Bosnia, Serbs destroyed and burned 3 million historical documents along with the national libraryof Bosnia(googleit) The UN had special units that investigated in Bosnia and destroyed everything that did not suit them! So I will repeat to you! Respect for your knowledge, sry but there is so much on this topic that you do not know about! I did not say that the old religion of Bosnia is same as Arianism, but I said that the old religion of Bosnia has its origins in Gothic Arianism. and that all European "heretical" movements started right from Bosnia, right where the Arye spread his teachings,where Bishop Wulfil wrote the first Arian Bible (In VISOKO) and so on. And I agree that Arianism is older than the Arye, the Arya were the name for spiritual leader of the religion ... and that the origin of this religion goes far BC .. (We have records from a friar who mentions the spiritual leader ( Did ) of this ancient religion, back in the time of Japheth's descendants, but aside from that ... If you want to know real truth, it Is enough to follow the disengagement of the deity of Christ in the territory of Bosnia and you will see the real truth, no matter how religious it has been called over time ... We have data from 2000 years ago, from the trial of Illyrian priests, because of the same "heresy" for which Arias was expelled to the territory of today's Bosnia, also for which Arianism was condemned, and also a thousand and a half years later for which the Pope/Rome twice send crusade to Bosnia, always same reason, and there has always been a denial of Christ as God! Even today in Bosnia there is a religion that says the same thing "Jesus is not God, he is God's messenger" and that is exactly the tradition in Bosnia 2000 years in the past ... So it is not surprising to me that people in Europe and the world today have no idea about this, many things from Bosnian history have been destroyed and covered up for all time, and this has been done for centuries! regards fromAnicent land Bassania! ;)
@@gordonlewis7837 And one more very important thing ... how absurd would it be to learn about the History of the Syrians from the Jews and Israel? : D It is so absurd that you learn about the old Bosnian religion from Rastko Nemanjica or Rome, in fact sworn enemies of Bosnia and the old Bosnian religion, since the time when Serbs came to the Balkans in the 7th century and were collaborators of Rome in destroying Bosnia, later collaborators of Byzantium. Well, a descendant of Rastko, Nemanjic committed the first genocide against Bosnians and supporters of the Bosnian church in the 12th century in Raska, killed the ruler of Raska named Tihomir, killed his family and all the nobles, burned at the stake and branded, some then escaped to Bosnia , all these people were loyal to the crown of Bosnia and the Bosnian faith ... Serbia's largest state documents write about how to exterminate Bosniaks and Bosnian Christians .. "Načrtanije" Lives of Simeon "Krmčija" and so on ... in all these state documents you have information on how to persecute and kill exactly the religion we are talking about here. Isn't it ridiculous to quote some Rastko Nemanjic here? hahah
@@gordonlewis7837 And one more very important thing ... how absurd would it be to learn about the History of the Syrians from the Jews and Israel? : D It is so absurd that you learn about the old Bosnian religion from Rastko Nemanjica or Rome, in fact sworn enemies of Bosnia and the old Bosnian religion, since the time when Serbs came to the Balkans in the 7th century and were collaborators of Rome in destroying Bosnia, later collaborators of Byzantium. Well, a descendant of Rastko, Nemanjic committed the first genocide against Bosnians and supporters of the Bosnian church in the 12th century in Rascia, killed the ruler of Rascia named Tihomir, killed his family and all the nobles, burned at the stake etc. some of them saved them slefs escapeing to Bosnia , all these people were loyal to the crown of Bosnia and the Bosnian faith ... Serbia's largest state documents write about how to exterminate old Bosniaks and Bosnian Christians .. "Načrtanije" Lives of Simeon "Krmčija" and so on ... in all these state documents you have information on how to persecute and kill exactly the religion we are talking about here. Isn't it ridiculous to quote some Rastko Nemanjic here? hahah
@@KraljevstvoBosansko No what is ridiculous is to specify things which are highly subjective and are unreliable as you yourself, being Bosnian, have a motive to claim these things and clearly are living in your own bubble. Concerning the Serbs "coming to the Balkans", gee, why is it then that Serbs and Bosnians are the most genetically similar people on the Balkans? They are more similar to one another than they are with other peoples, no not even Montenegrins are so similar as Serbs and Bosnians. So if Serbs came to the Balkans then your people came with them as well so I'd say back to the drawing board and rethink this approach because by claiming that the Serbs are foreigners you are shooting yourself in the foot as well but since you are highly subjective and clearly live in your own bubble you cannot notice this major flaw in this, eh, shallow reasoning of yours.
After all we can conclude that we know next to nothing about Bogumils. Not surprising if they rejected everything and anything material, they haven't left much behind them.
I'm in Yambol I asked a local about the Bogomils I got a positive answer I'm glad the Bulgarian people are acknowledging the Bogomils as many French accept the Cathars existence apparently the Bogomils & Cathars had contact according to Marcel Messing.
@@str.77 Sadly the truth was hidden I saw a very famous German book that recorded their trial & slaughter in Cologne & other cities although some definitely made it to England.
Bogomilism is perhaps a culture trait MORE than a trait of ideology or of ideas - this area was united strongly inside an old culture of 5 to 7 thousand yrs in the past
Congratulations for the wonderful, informative and very objective video! I am waching you with a big pleasure. Keep doing the same exellent work! All the best!
Not all the gnostics were anticosmic. See, for example, Clement of Alexandria. You might find the Mandaean Book of John [the Baptist] or their Haran Gawaita of interest. Basically, it would seem that they viewed Saturn as the Most High God and Jupiter, his Son, who sort of botched the Creation.
26:35 Zeus is himself a pre-Greec, Thraco-Illirian God. Nothing to find there ad "Greek". - It is all upside-down. The "Hellenisation" of Zeus happened also quite "postmortum" at least a half millennium after the first "Greek" settlements in Europe.
I found it difficult to listen to Dr Curta because the sound was terrible, his words kept cutting out every minute & it was so irritating to try & listen. With no disrespect to Dr Curta, his accent was hard to follow but added to the fact his voice kept cutting out, his speed of speech culminated in my vertual lack of learning anything about the Bogomils Also not sure why the dead sea scrolls needed explaing. I hope im not offending anyone as im trying hard to stay with this video I mainly wanted to learn about the Bogomils invasion of Ireland So i hope something of that nature is covered.
Thanks for your interesting video. There are many new facts about the Bogomils. I recommend you to meet prof. Damian Pophristov who wrote a book with very new information. He had been researching this theme about 17 years while he teached in the NY university.
Maybe I misunderstood something, but it seems to me, that because the Bogomills refrained from sex; they simply died out. That may not only be what happened to them, but it also could be why they may not have been massacred, because the Catholic Church figured, "Why hassle with killing them off, if they're dying out anyway?".
No. Only the ones, who reached the status of perfect, refrained from sex and did a lot of fasting. There were several different ranks of Bogomils. The "perfects" were community leaders, who were provided for. But they had to be the living conscience of the community. For example, they tried to answer the question: Where did evil come from?
@@dumdebadaba I see. ...I wonder if the existence of "perfect" Bogomills helped influence the Catholic Church to require their priests and other officials to be celibate?
Well that sounds strange right? XD But actually no, they re quite a lot of strong evidences pointing that Bogomils went into the shadows, meaning to hide from the public, in order to survive and their sacred knowledge. Its often stated they re the creators of the first secret societies spanding across lots of high ranking officials in Europe, from the Dogue of Venice to the famous scholar Bulgaricus (this name became more of an high erudite/educational title in a later stage, you can find several Bulgaricus in different ages in Bologna University) co-founder of the medieval Bologna University. It may sound strange but they re some strong evidences in correspondence and etc. Usage of specific words etc. Some people lead to the fact that the first masonic and Illuminati societies have their roots from thr Bogomil secret society as well.
Bulgarians are the first Christians. They accepted the teachings from St. Andrews who came to Europe via Black Sea and accosted in today's Tzarevo. Later the christianisation 10th century is political and connected to the Byzantine influences. The Orthodox Church. It was all political move . The original Christians were vegetarian accepted karma and reincarnation and the Bogomils wanted to preserve these teachings. The teachings were close to the original so called Thracian culture given by Orpheus. Bulgarians are the decendents of the Thracians. The Greeks came much later to Europe from north Africa. The history has been terribly twisted to minimise the Bulgarians and their position in ancient Europe.
Bogumili (older form: Bogomili) were supporters of Christian teachings that developed from the 10th to the 15th century among the Slavs in the Balkans. They appeared in the 10th century in Bulgaria and in the 13th century they were scattered in Central Europe under the Manichaean sect. They will probably influence the movement of Qatar. The supposed founder of the teachings, Pope Bogomil, preached in Macedonia in the middle of the 10th century. They claimed, like Protestants later, that they were in favor of a return to early Christianity, rejecting church hierarchy, authority and violence, in the name of "evangelical equality". The main political tendency of Bogomilism was resistance to Byzantine state and church authority, which helped the movement spread quickly among the Balkan Slavs. Bogumilstvo (older form: Bogomilstvo) spread from Macedonia and Bulgaria to the Byzantine Empire, Kievan Rus, Serbia, Bosnia, Dalmatia, Italy and France, and to a lesser extent to other countries of Western Europe, even reaching the British Isles. By the beginning of the 13th century, the Christian communities of Europe, which included the Paulites and Bogomils in the east and the Cathars in the west, were connected in a network that stretched from the Black Sea to the Atlantic Ocean. The ruling church, both Eastern and Western, fiercely persecuted the God-homils. For this purpose, several councils were convened, where books and people were burned along with those declared heretics, and several military campaigns were launched. The etymology of the name Bogumili is derived from the Old Slavic words "Bogo miluj" (God have mercy), so some authors call Bogomilstvo the teaching of God's mercy. , or he took that name after it became the name of the movement. Burning people the church declared heretics. It is believed that the worship of God in Dalmatia (Croatia) has its forerunners in the Glagolitic movement (see: Gregory of Nin) and the Cyril and Methodius tradition of Slavic worship. During the 12th century, Pataranese, that is, Bogumil teaching penetrated the Dalmatian cities, especially Zadar, Trogir and Split. At the Cathar assembly in Saint Felix held in 1167, the church of Dalmatia is also mentioned. In 1185, a metropolitan synod was held in Split, which cursed all "sects of heretics" who "denigrate the science" of the Roman Church and demanded from the authorities in the Dalmatian cities the confiscation of their property, their excommunication and persecution. Bernard, the new archbishop of Split, shortly after taking office in 1196, expelled the patarenes from the city, confiscating their properties. Many exiles then, at the beginning of 1200, found refuge under the auspices of the Bosnian Church and Ban Kulin. In medieval Serbia, the Orthodox Church and the Nemanjic state persecuted the Bogumites as heretics, calling them baboons.[4] In 1186, the great prefect Stefan Nemanja convened a church-state assembly against the Bogomils in Raška. At the council, their teaching was condemned as heresy. This was followed by the persecution of Bogomils in Raška, Crkva bosanska je bila crkvena zajednica bosanskih hrišćana u srednjem veku, koja za vreme bana Kulina (1180-1204) dospeva u središte međunarodne pažnje jer pruža utočište prognanim patarenima iz Dalmacije i babunima iz Raške. Kulin prognanicima pruža utočište, i prima ih kao dobre hrišćane, ostavši u narodu upamćen kao „dobri ban Kulin“. Usled dvadesetogodišnjeg krstaškog rata protiv katara u Francuskoj od 1209. do 1229. godine, mnogi prognani takođe beže u Bosnu. 1223. godine, za vreme starešinstva djeda Rastudija, papin legat za Francusku piše o postojanju jeresonačelnika kojeg katari nazivaju papom a koji živi na Balkanu.[30] Papa Grgur IX 1234. godine započinje krstaški rat protiv jeretika u Bosni. Bogumili appeared in Bulgaria in the middle of the 10th century. John the Exarch, a Bulgarian priest and theologian, attacks dualistic heretics in the Sixth Day, written around 915. He discusses at length that there is no evil principle (evil force) in creation. Presbyter Kozma, in a tract entitled Sermon on Heresy, written around 972, states that the "Bogumar heretics" "believed and thought that they were suffering for justice and that they would receive some kind of reward from God for chains and prison", from which it can be seen that were brutally persecuted by the authorities in Bulgaria in the 10th century.[16] On February 11, 1211, Emperor Boril convened a state-church assembly against the Bogomils in Bulgaria in Trnovo. Bogumili in Russia The first page of the 11th century Novgorod Codex. In 1004, about 25 years after the official introduction of Christianity to Kievan Rus, the priest Adrian taught a similar doctrine to the Bogomils, and was imprisoned by Leontius, the Bishop of Kiev, for this. In 1125, the church in southern Russia condemned a preacher named Dmitri as a heretic. In 2000, the Novgorod Codex, a collection of apocryphal writings, translations and original Slavic works, was found, which testifies to the presence of Bogomil or similar "heretical" teachings in the Novgorod region at the turn of the 10th to the 11th century.[25] The Ukrainian fairy tale of Pravda i Krivda (kazka pro Pravdu j Krivdu) is also thought to be inspired by Bogomil dualism. Bogumili in Byzantium Bogumilism first appeared in Byzantium among the Slavs, and soon spread among the non-Slavic population of Constantinople and Asia Minor. In 1034, Euthymius, a monk from Constantinople, a native of Akmonia in Asia Minor, wrote a polemical treatise against the Bogomils of Asia Minor.[27] Emperor Alexius I Comnenus (1081-1118) begins the persecution of Bogomils and Paulites, who did not want to accept the official Orthodox faith and rebelled against Byzantine rule. During the 1140s, a series of trials of Bogomils were held in Constantinople. One of the more serious outbreaks of blasphemy occurred in the early 1320s, parallel to the appearance of Hesychasm, on Mount Athos, the monastic center of the Orthodox world. Toponyms in Macedonia remind us of Bogumila today, such as Babuna village, Bogomil (near Veles), Torbachi, Kutugerci (in Bulgaria), Jeremija, Babuna mountain and Babuna river, Bogomilsko pole valley, etc. Babun stream near Mostar and the surname Babunović in Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia.
Good evening. Arab sources called Paulicians "Baylakānī" (it is written even in the same wikipedia) and there is a city of Baylakan in Azerbaijan, my country. That is why we do consider they were from our city of Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan right near Armenia, that you showed on the map.
In the process of getting ready to move! Haha! Thanks for noticing. Sixty boxes and counting....... I’m going to look like a body builder when I move all those. Hahaha.
The official thesis of the appearing of the Bogomils is frankly ridiculous. The Church had good merit for it. We have to look much further back in time to understand the Bogomile mouvement. It starts with the Orphic doctrine that was widely spread amongst Bulgarians before the Roman Empire period. The Bulgarians accepted very easily the Christian teachings in the 1st century because the Orphic doctrine and the Christian one were very similar. ( I assume that the reader is not overwhelmed with the lies that Bulgarians arrived from Asia in 681AD.Bulgarians are local Balkanic populations) After a few centuries of doctrinal wars in Constantinople between Bulgarians and Greeks and some conciles mainly of Greek priests, the Greeks took the religious power, even if most of the emperors were from Moesian ( Bulgarian) origins and changed drastically the original Christian doctrine ( they removed the reincarnation, the women were deprived of having a soul, no equality etc) . When Boris -Michael imposed the Greek orthodoxy for political reasons in 864 in Bulgaria this created a big rejection amongst the population and this is the main reason why the Bogomiles went to Bosna and later to the modern North Italy and Southern France. The Church- Catholics and Greek Orthodox were considering those keepers of the original apostolic teaching as a threat. That’s why the fate the Church reserved them was extermination.
Good presentation, but once again I notice that the English language doesn't make it easy to comprehend terms, e.g. Marcion is pronounced as if he was called Martian. Paulicians as if they were Polishians.
24:24 The lecturer is in doubt as to the connection between the Bogomils and Zoroadtrism. He missed the fact that Bulgaria and Persia were one and a same country for more than 1500 years during 3 millennium. Our ancestors were proved worshipping The Sun and the Fire (Ogan) at least for some 3500 years till mow.
Did I catch this correctly: the Apocryphon of John? (Singular form of apocrypha). I find gnosticism hard to understand, but I got the impression that it always contains some element of secret wisdom that is only attainable by the initiated, is this accurate? Thanks.
Yes, the secret knowledge is the wisdom or gnosis which is gained through a direct experience of the divine. The patriarch Enoch examples the only written account of such an interaction.
@@kilowhiskeyalpha6078 There are other accounts such as the Grandfather of Zoroaster which is quite lengthy in the gnostic treatises (possibly Tripartite Tractate).
Yes, they live in what is nowadays Hungary. But they remember their Bulgarian origins. Their churches have some Bulgarian inscriptions, but in the Latin and not the Cyrillic alphabet.
@@dumdebadaba Different groups migrated to Hungary for different reasons. They did also in Romania and many other countries. In Bulgaria even is a city called Pavlikeni. Some Catholics ex. Paulikanians had immigrated to Austro--Hungaria and received rights and freedoms , later that was incorporated in Romania. Some Paulikenians become Muslims. They are called Pomaks. The story of Bogomils is the Eastern Roman Empire aka. Byzantium exiled from Armenia (Asia , very old churches, contacts with Persian and Indian philosophies) many people into Thrace 7-8th century. Thrace was conquered by Bulgarians. In 9th century especially the 10th different forms of Christianity spread in Bulgaria. It was more like a civil movement against authority ,state and Church and spread into Europe.Those who were against state church later had to escape from Islam.
Bartul Silich my dad and mum told me that our ancestors were bogomils and that they come from bosnia some time about 1500 to 1600 ad to the island of korcula croatia
Great interview, thank you and Dr. Curti. Regarding the crusades against the people deemed as heretics there have been crusades against the ones in Bosnia. One was by the hungarians from 1235 to 1241 called for by the pope. It did not succeed however because of the mongol invasion of Hungary.
@@ramsaysnow9196 That’s exactly what it was. The Bosnians were heretics according to the pope, who then gave the green light for king Stefan to invade Bosnia. They burned people along their way through Bosnia and had to withdraw due to the Mongul invasion of Buda and Pesta.
You are so wrong... btw i am from Bosnia, and i study hisory.. so, "Bogumilizam" in Bosnia came with aphostol ARIUS in 3st.n.e. and it is spread trough Europe by GOTS, Ostrogots in case of Bosnia.. Bosnian old religion caled "KRSTJANS" was not dualism for sure.. it is Anicent monoteism,old some say thousands of years!
Sorry Edo but there is no connection between Gnosticism and Arianism, if you study history as you say then you would know better. Why? Because the true origin of the clearly Gnostic Bogomils lies in the 4th and 5th centuries, specifically with the group which the Western AND Eastern Romans dubbed "Cathars". The term Cathar originates from a Gnostic heresy which broke out in the Balkans in the 4th century and was publicly present there until the end of the 5th century. After that the Gnostic heretics stopped being open about their faith and many centuries later, only when their fellow Gnostics, the Paulician Armenians, were resettled to the Balkans by the Eastern Romans, who, in stereotypical Gnostic fashion, were renowned for their extreme fervor for rebellion not only against the government but also against the clergy, did they start to resort back to being open about their Gnostic faith and that is when they started to become outspoken which drew the ire of Rome. Arianism and Gnosticism have NO connection whatsoever, if you think we are the same then I would like to draw your attention to the fact that we Arians believe that one being created everything, soul and matter, that being is VERY much knowable and perceivable in subtle ways but Gnostics will believe that there are 2 creators; one evil being or multiple evil beings created matter and one invisible and unknowable good being created the soul. Furthermore we Arians believe that THROUGH faith in Jesus we can know God, who created everything, in Him we have salvation and this salvation is granted to us in grace, not relying on works or on deeds but on faith in the grace of God and His mercy, whereas Gnostics believe that the world was created by one or multiple evil beings who run this world, they believe that world is 100% evil and that the body is also purely evil, they believe that salvation relies on two things; good works and the acquiring of Gnosis; this Gnosis is a form of knowledge which is only acquirable from above, so some supernatural being needs to tell you some hocus pocus and if you unravel the hocus pocus then you can rid yourself of your purely evil human body. Also, we Arians believe that suicide is a major sin against the creator and is highly disrespectful towards Him, but Gnostics believe that suicide is perfectly okay because it allows oneself to get rid of their evil human bodies and transcend. There are MANY things which give credence to the fact that Arianism and Gnosticism, in whichever form or sect you want to put it, are two polar opposite perspectives which may have a few similarities but the amount of differences and incompatibilities are so many that it was not, is not and never will be the same thing, no matter how much you wish it to be.
@@gordonlewis7837 "hahaha oh man there is so much you dont know.. what does rastko and serbs have anything with Arianism? Goths and Arie was in bosnia houndrets of years before Serbs comeing to Balkan in 7st ! Today we have many old documents and records, which I just said, wich proveing continuity of a same belief in Bosnia lasted for 2000 years, at least that basis of belief ... to who West and the East opposed it so much against! But unfortunately many of these documents are not available to the public today, especially to you in the west or beyond ... however, as much as we have historical materials today, a hundred times more have been destroyed, burned and covered up ... Even in the last war in Bosnia, Serbs destroyed and burned 3 million historical documents along with the national libraryof Bosnia(googleit) The UN had special units that investigated in Bosnia and destroyed everything that did not suit them! So I will repeat to you! Respect for your knowledge, sry but there is so much on this topic that you do not know about! I did not say that the old religion of Bosnia is same as Arianism, but I said that the old religion of Bosnia has its origins in Gothic Arianism. and that all European "heretical" movements started right from Bosnia, right where the Arye spread his teachings,where Bishop Wulfil wrote the first Arian Bible (In VISOKO) and so on. And I agree that Arianism is older than the Arye, the Arya were the name for spiritual leader of the religion ... and that the origin of this religion goes far BC .. (We have records from a friar who mentions the spiritual leader ( Did ) of this ancient religion, back in the time of Japheth's descendants, but aside from that ... If you want to know real truth, it Is enough to follow the disengagement of the deity of Christ in the territory of Bosnia and you will see the real truth, no matter how religious it has been called over time ... We have data from 2000 years ago, from the trial of Illyrian priests, because of the same "heresy" for which Arias was expelled to the territory of today's Bosnia, also for which Arianism was condemned, and also a thousand and a half years later for which the Pope/Rome twice send crusade to Bosnia, always same reason, and there has always been a denial of Christ as God! Even today in Bosnia there is a religion that says the same thing "Jesus is not God, he is God's messenger" and that is exactly the tradition in Bosnia 2000 years in the past ... So it is not surprising to me that people in Europe and the world today have no idea about this, many things from Bosnian history have been destroyed and covered up for all time, and this has been done for centuries! regards fromAnicent land Bassania! ;)"
@@KraljevstvoBosansko No point in reading your comment when your comment opens with "hahaha oh man there is so much you dont know.. what does rastko and serbs have anything with Arianism?" as you clearly did not read my comment at all. I stated that the teachings of the Bogomil are recorded in the writings of Rastko Nemanjic and that from that I conclude that they are not Arian Christians, unlike you who is only speculating on the basis of what? Who witnessed what you are commenting in those days? Nobody.
@@gordonlewis7837 Sry man, but you cant know better then me about history of my country, about old religion od my ancestors.. I will repeat to you, how ridiculous is it that you are trying to prove something here about religion, from the records of a man who, besides Rome, was one of the greatest enemies of Bosnia and the Bosnian old religion? The man who killed thousands and thousands in his country own country who were members of the old Bosnian faith? think a little about what you do .. You ask who knows what I am writing,? We in Bosnia know, our historians know, folklore too.. but if you have followed the history of Bosnia for a while, then you know that we have no peace for centuries and today our country is threatened with extinction and destruction, new genocides and so on, we simply have much bigger problems right now than this, believe me ... But here we are again trying to tell our history and the truth of our ancestors to be heard even though we have great difficulties and censorship in all this ... if you are really interested, go to my channel, there is a video "forbidden hostory of Bosnia" in the video there is a lot of talk about this religion and other things, so look, if you want .. There is many fb groups and sites about this too Like "BASSANIA" "KRALJEVSTVO BOSANSKO" etc.
@@gordonlewis7837 There are a lot of categories constitutes as "Gnostics", whereas even Arians has some of the splits and contemporary subsects during the life of Arius, there are a lot of splinters of Christianity even during early years, as even Justinus' Book of Baruch and even Cerinthus and Simon Magus shows of how there are Gnostic Jewish Christians Which in itself refutes the accusation that "Gnosticism" (or whatever you called it as) to be origin of Paul, just when Paul and Peter had beef with Simon Magus, while early Sethians and Valentinians referred to Paul, Cerinthus referred to Simon Magus, there's a lot of supposed Gnostic (as in Nag Hammadi) texts attributed through Peter, James, Philip, Mary Magdalene, Thomas, etc At this point any moron calls even non-Gnostics as "Gnostics", also it's funny that you accuse The "Gnostics" to allow suicides just when there's Nag Hammadi Texts such like "Testimony of Truth" which forbids martyrdom and suicide in any form, or texts such as Zostrianos which calls those who tries to commit suicide to relinquish it and not give up based off both Faith and Gnosis Tl;dr many youtube comment sections like yours can be illiterate buffoons at times to the point of being infuriating and insulting to those who have both heart and head
"there is no crusade against Bogumils" - wrong, yes it was a crusade, actually two time on in13st against bosnian "heretics" and bouth of them failed, becouse cruseades lost
I would like to mention that Bogomili did not call them selves like that they called themselves good christians, if you also check if Catars were called themselve Catars you will see what I mean
The Vatican Library welcomes legitimate scholars. They let me research there, and I wrote a book discussing the political lies the catholic church used in the Middle Ages.
This is religious movement in middle age Bulgaria . Originated there and it’s original Bulgarian . Dig deeper and forget all Greek stuff . People are getting wrong idea …
Bogomils originate from Macedonia, the village of Bogomila and Father Bogomil. As simple as that. They appeared during Bulgarian conquest over Macedonia, so they supported the Tsar Samuel in fighting out the Bulgars and Byzantine. So he formed the first state of the Macedonians
@@alexalex2237 what?🤣🤣🤣 who told you that? Todor Zhivkov or Karakachanov? Here is a quote of Sandanski: "We dont fight for Bulgarian Macedonia, but Macedonia for the Macedonians." "Who told you that the comitee is Bulgarian? We are Macedonians and the organization is not Bulgarian neither are we" - Nikola Karev. You were saying something? 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@V V Woow! If Macedonians were moved to Hunza back then, then your Asparukh was still a spermatosoid in his grand grand grand grand grand father somewhere in Mongolia happiliy married with his horse.
So let's see what happened: Tsar Samuel, who called himseld Tsar of Bulgarians contested his own territory of Vardar Macedonia like King of Ancient Macedonia? You're all so pathetic 🤣🤣🤣
Emperor Theophilus from the 9th century was an iconoclastic heretic, he fought wars in Asia with Arabs, meddled there a lot, certainly was aware that his sect is waning, and loosing followers and the grip on power. I think he wanted to do something to obstruct the future works of his orthodox successors, Paulicans become known in Asia sometimes afther him. Maybe he was that "Bogomil", and arranged the whole thing. He certainly was heretical, and had access to old gnostic texts from imperial libraries, and he was the only Byzantine emperor named Theophilus.
The Bosnian Church was the church community of Bosnian Christians in the Middle Ages. Although the Catholic Church was considered heretical, its members considered themselves Orthodox Christians. The Bosnian Church provided refuge to religious exiles from various sides: Bogumils from Raška, Patareni from Dalmatia and Cathars from the west, which is why several crusades were launched in Bosnia. The Bosnian Church ceased to exist after the collapse of the medieval Bosnian state and the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia in 1463. Among the members of the Church of Bosnia, there were real Christians (clergy, who adhered to all religious canons) and profane, i.e. secular people - laymen (believers, who did not have to strictly adhere to religious regulations). The name Christian or true Christian is often understood in the meaning of the word monk, because of the ascetic life they lived. Unlike the Eastern and Western churches, whose vocations are in Greek or Latin, Bosnian Orthodox Christians used folk Slavic words for the priesthood. The supreme head of the church was the grandfather, and the priests were guests and elders (under the common name strojnici). Many associate those names with the corresponding Greek names, so it is believed that the meaning of the word guest is abbot (who had his own inn), old man is a presbyter, train drivers are priests, and grandfather is a bishop. Members of the Bosnian Church called themselves Christians (Christians, Krstjani). They used the Old Slavic language in worship, and the Cyrillic alphabet in religious books. The grandfathers of the Bosnian Church bore folk Slavic names (instead of the then usual Christian names of Greek and Jewish origin), and used Slavic names for all clerical vocations. Years were counted from the birth of Christ, not from the creation of the world (as per the Byzantine calendar). The Bosnian Church did not accept the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of either the Western or the Eastern Church. Due to the pressures, the Bosnian Church officially recognized the Pope and Rome, but did not fulfill its obligations towards the Roman Catholic Church, even providing refuge to those it persecuted. The Christian Church in Bosnia was first mentioned under the Latin name ecclesia bosnensis (or bistuensis, boestoensis) in 530 and 533 at the church councils in Salona, the metropolis of Roman Dalmatia, where its bishop Andrija signed the acts of the church councils.[1] It is believed that the seat of this Old Christian church municipality was in Mošunj near Travnik or near Zenica, at the time when Bosnia was ruled by the Ostrogoths. The earliest information about the Bosnian Church comes from the list of grandfathers of the Bosnian Church, where the first head is mentioned as grandfather Jeremija, who is assumed to have led the church between 1010 and 1024 and whom some associate with Pope Jeremija. At that time, some of the Croatian Glagoliticians and supporters of Slavic worship, who were declared heretics by the Catholic Church at the Split councils, went to Bosnia, where the church allowed the Old Slavic language. As a result of the persecution of the Bogumils in Raška, which began with the Assembly against the Bogumils of Stefan Nemanja in 1186, a large number of survivors fled to Bosnia, where they found refuge in the hijas (public houses) of the Bosnian church. Around the same time, the Catholic Church, led by the archbishop of Split, expelled from Split and Trogir a large number of patarenes, who found salvation in Bosnia. In 1233, the Pope sent his envoy to Bosnia, Jakov Pekorari, instructing him to depose the Bosnian bishop, the "protector of heretics", who defended himself as having erred out of ignorance. Jakov Pekorari blamed the Archbishop of Dubrovnik for the situation in the Bosnian diocese, because he was obliged to know about it, and yet he appointed a heretic as bishop and suffered that the service of God was not performed in the churches. That is why the papal legate Jakov exempted the Bosnian diocese from Dubrovnik's jurisdiction and subordinated it to the archbishop of Kaloch. Then he deposed the Bosnian bishop, and in his place in 1234 appointed the German Johann from Wildeshausen, a member of the Dominican order, founded to suppress heresy. The Bosnians did not recognize this bishop, but chose their own, so there were two bishops in Bosnia at the same time, one Bosnian and the other Latin. The Dominicans then, with the help of the Inquisition, began to persecute heretics in Bosnia, which caused great dissatisfaction among the population. In 1234, Pope Gregory IX started a crusade against heretics in Bosnia, and in 1235, he confirmed the grant of the Hungarian king Andrija, according to which Bosnia belonged to Duke Koloman. Between 1235 and 1237, Hungary carried out a crusade against Bosnia and in the process occupied the territory of Humska zemlje. The war lasted almost five years,
Just finished the paulician chapter from the decline and fall of the roman empire, i searched a bit about the subject, it seems they were the first anachists, they rejected any authority, for their time i say they were really brave for doing that, it was more of societal movement, but anything had to use religion back then in one form or another
My family has Bogomil roots. We can do things that look like magic for normal people. We are very good people also - we can't harm anyone. Jesus was Bulgarian too - we keep that secret. His name was Asi - and his mother Aria. We call our self Az, As, and we are Arians... The Bible is the history of Bulgaria, stolen and changed by Greeks and Jews....
What u wonder? Bogomilism spred from Bulgaria across all of the Balkans and Eastern Europe like a wildfire! Then reach the lands of Frankish Empire and they called Bogomils with the name cathars!
@@che1878 I was interested in more detailed answer, not this semi literate rant. For example if it spread like wildfire as you say why were there only two strongholds of this belief in Bosnia and France? Were they same thing or just similar?
i am watching to hear about the stone relief carving in the thumbnail picture....the 3 circles and moon with star is reminiscient of the carving of Leo at nemrut dag
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Wow this video is so much nice and I really enjoyed this video it is so much knowledge full . I am able know so much knowledge from your videos than any book so I liked your channel so much please keep it up
I'm from Bosnia and we only mentioned the bogomils briefly when we learned about the kingdom and the bosnian church. Loved learning more
Where dissipated bogomils from Bosnia and Balkan? We knows for Muslims (majority in Bosnia), We know for Catholics of Bosnia (Croats) and we know for Orthodox of Bosnia (Republika Srpska - Serbs). We don't know for ogomil part of Bosnia (but we know, before Turkish invasion on Balkan there was bogomils in Bosnia. Are bogomils converted in Islam? If so, Why and how?
We know, on demand from pope in 1170 AD, King Dusan of Serbia exiled bogomils from Serbia to Bosnia. So, where they dissipated from Bosnia?
Bosnian Church and Bogomilism is actually not the same.
Bosnian Church was a Christian church with many local (Slavic) specifics, sometimes under medium pressure of Catholics to synchronise with Catholicism more. Bosnian Church was the official religion of Bosnian Kingdom, later turning to Catholicism, which isnt even a giant change, it's just flavours and allegiances of christianity.
Bogomilis were an unusual (dualist) sect from Bulgaria, often heavily persecuted and burned by the Orthodox Church. Bosnia was maybe a refuge for Bogomils, as being outside of Orthodox/Byzantine Sphere. But not for long since even Bosnian kings persecuted them later on.
@@miloshp7399 But later in the latter stages of kingdom of Bosnia the clergy of the Bosnian Church went into hiding in Hum and Hum was mostly Orthodox. There they merged with the local Orthodox.
I’m also from Hercegovina, and I’ve researched the Crkva Bosanska quite a bit. Generally one can say that they are «Eastern protestants» - not in communion with Rome or Carigrad (constantinople) but having more of Eastern practices and features, as for example the calendar, bosančica, etc
Same from Bulgaria
The Bogomili movement starts from the Balkans and flourished during Tsar Simeon Bulgarian the Great ruler and under his youngest son Veniamin - Boyan Maga, who was educated in Byzantium court / the School The great chamber. During the ruling of Simeon son's Peter I , the brother Boyan had full authority to develop the bogomili movement, from there they spread in Italy and France
Their is history of Cathars in England especially the Gnostic or Cathar hidden paintings discovered at the Piccotts at Piccotts end near Hemel Hempstead & a few Catholic Authorities heretic trials around the UK one awful one at Oxford historically recorded a group of Cathars sent out in to the elements during winter naked into a nearby forest sadly True look it up .
And Russia to
Szkita - kereszténység !
Amely, megelőzi a Rómait !
- Mani - hoz kötődik !
...ezért üldözi - Róma ! ...
*
Hi and thank you for the video! As a Bulgarian I can tell you that Bogomils are studied in school as part of our history. Really interesting to see a different view, thanks again 🙏
In Medieval "Lombardy" (which meant the entire Northern Italy at the time) Cathars were often called "Bulgars".
Hello and thanks for commenting! That is great to hear! I find Bulgarian history to be absolutely fascinating!
The Bogomils were actually given more emphasys in school at time of the Communist regime before 1989, rather than today. The reason is the regime's propaganda tried to spin them in a more Marxist direction in the role of revolutionaries against the status quo. The sect came into being due to Armenian influences, especially the Paulicians. They often rebelled against the Byzantine rule in Eastern Anatolia and after defeating their uprisings, Constantinople regularly forcefully moved the more unruly ones in other regions of the Empire. Of course rather than moving them to regions inhabited by Greeks and close to the capital, they preferred to move them to other regions, like the Bulgarian lands. Due to these expulsions, we have the town of Pavlikeni for example. It comes from Pavlikyani and it literally means "Paulicians". Their religious beliefs intermeshed with the followers of Saint Ivan of Rila (AKA The Hermit of Rila), who is something like the Bulgarian version of Saint Francis of Assisi. He also called for modesty, helping out the poor and suffering etc. When he became hugely popular and Tsar Peter wanted to gain on this to boost his own standing with the people, he offered him a large sum to found a monastery, Saint Ivan rejected it, saying the tsar would do much greater good if he gives the money to those in need. In a way the Bogomils could be seen as a religious precursor to revolutionary socialism, although there is no direct link. They publically demonstrated their discontempt to both secular and church power in the presence of nobles, priests and monks, going as high as the Tsar and the Patriarch themselves and lived in their own collective communes. Their hathed for the Bulgarian Orthodox Church was so great, that when the Ottoman Turks havd conquered the Bulgarian lands and the Church has lost its political power in the society, rather than coming back into its fold, the Bogomils converted either to Catholicism or to Islam. The Uprising of Chiprovtsi was carried out by Bulgarian Catholics, who descended from the Bogomils. Catholic Bulgarian writers and activists, such as Petar Bogdan, Petar Parchevich and Franchesco Soymirovich, who petitioned the Vatican, the Holy Roman Empire and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to liberate the Bulgarian lands from the Ottomans also descend from the Bogomils-to-Catholics converts.
@@Locomotion-uz4ly Fascinating! Thank you!
@@stefanodadamo6809They are Bulgarians, in north Itali have cyti Chelle di Bulgaria and Montana di Bulgaria. People of prins Alchek settled der.
Tried for a long time to find Balkan sources on the Bosnian Church and Bogomilism and I found this! Great to listen to and not at least to learn from. Thank you guys, great video and theme!
It was done to destroy Bosnian Church. As they were saying Bogumils did not build churches and they did not believe in Old Testament. All churches were destroyed, king Tvrtko declared himself a catholic, Bogumils were minor population and orthodox churches were rebuilt again after the 15 century. They tried to destroy Orthodox Church.
The Vlachs spread Bogomilism in Western Balkans, over 20 Vlach tribes ruled over Herzegovina and in the mountains of Bosnia
@@InAeternumRomaMater And these Vlachs became Serbs (and some Bosniaks/Muslims) later?
@@InAeternumRomaMater I’ve never heard about it. I was born in BiH and my whole family was born or raised in BiH. It was impossible to believe in that since both Rome and Orthodox Church were making sure that no Bogumilism stays there.
Bogumilt : - Keresd, Bolgáriában ..... !
- ott megtalálod ! *
:)
Carl Jung talked about "the shadow"... he basically said religious men make the mistake to think the devil is an outsider, and doesn't want to admit there's a dark side in the unconscious. A video I can recommend that explains this more is "Carl Jung's Philosophy of The Shadow"
I've just begun seeing a Bosnian woman who came to the States aged 8. She's been kind of cryptic about her spirituality, but told me last night her family is Bogomil. I'd heard of it somewhere, but knew nothing specific. So I asked her if that was Christian or an Islamic derivative, she said "it predates those." Thinking maybe it was like one of these Zoroastrian/Druze type vestigial ethnic enclaves, I asked if it's monotheistic or animistic/pagan, and she paused before saying, "it's like Native American." I'm left with more questions than answers.
She's either lying to you or you're lying to us.
@@TotilaTheGoth there are other options dude. Like, she thinks she’s some kind if New Age prophet and doesn’t want to get pinned down. Like all spiritually deluded, ambitious people she wants to remain vague so she can be all things to anyone willing to buy what she’s selling (in this case some book she’s “channeled”). She got mad when I tried to pin her down and that was that.
@@zenbear4149The Bogomils coming from Orfizum(Orfei)
Bogomilism isn't preserved. We get hints from others (Inquisitions) descibing the belief. So more likely New Age religion embracing the term Bogomilism.
Keresztényhez áll a legközelebb ... de, megelőzi azt ! ...
:)
I am a Bulgarian Orthodox. I am not fond of the bogomiles as you can guess. But the guy is talking straight to the point and is making some very well grounded conclusions. I will be glad to see more videos about medieval Bulgaria. Keep up the good work man!
Well...,maybe because "THEIR BIGGEST ENEMY WAS The BULGARIAN establishment(king etc etc)......it is a VERY WIDE TOPIC,...,so for now let me just say this,...,it was not Leonardo da Vinci,or Galileo or any OF THEM that STARTED TGE RENAISSANCE MOVEMENT...,it was the Bogomils
I refer to Holy Blood Holy Grail, Cathers were promiscuous, y is this different?
I am Druze Muslim, and we believe in exactly the same as bogomils and cathars. They are our brothers… same movement, and is probably is more ancient than Islam and Christianity together. It is true underground water way connecting us to the ancients
Wow! As far as I'm aware you can't convert to your Religion...that means you come from a long legacy of mystic knowledge. Holy smokes!
Basically all monotheistic religions comes from the Zoroastrian religion
Druzr isn't recognized as muslim youre heretics
@@codenameeaglecooldown900 we think that true Islam is with us. Passed down through Fatima the daughter of the prophet. We don’t care if we are recognized or not. We are the founders of azhar, we give recognition.
Brother, where would you suggest I can collect proper information about what you are saying and about Druze?
Best regards
Mikael
Thank you, Dr. Curta and Nick.
Part of my ethnicity is Slavic and part of that is Russian Jewish. I think my ancestors would have been Kievan Russ. I have learned a lot from the various videos here.
Nope. russia has nothing to do with Kyivan Rus.
😢
😢Q? 1😢😢😢😢😢😢🎉🎉😢🎉😢
I'm Polish and I was always wondering if "Bogumili"/"Bogomili" were "those who love God" or "those loved by God", because it can mean both.
Miły = nice, kind, loving.
It means both.
The legend is that Bogomilism was founded by a priest named Bogomil. A contemporary author/priest and critic called him Bogu-ne-mil or translated into English as far as I remember: "His name was Dear-to-God or more like Not-Dear-to-God".
Here it is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_Against_the_Bogomils
Sermon Against the Heresy (Church Slavonic: Бесѣда на ересь) is a polemical and didactic work of Old Bulgarian literature, written by Cosmas the Priest, a church writer close to Tsar Peter I of Bulgaria. Sermon bears the full title Homily of the Unworthy Presbyter Cosmas Against the Newly-Appeared Bogomil Heresy (Church Slavonic: недостоинаѥго козмꙑ презвѵтера бесеѣда на новоѩвивъшѫѭ сѧ ересь богоумилоу), or, in other manuscripts, Sermon of Saint Cosmas Presbyter Against the Heretics, A Discussion and an Instruction from the Books of God.
It means ''those who begs God for mercy''
@@varsam It doesn't mean that.
In Central Macedonia, there is still a village called Bogomila. It is believed it carries the name of Father Bogomil, who was probably born there or in the neighboring villages (most likely in Sogle). The river Babuna and the mountain with the same name are etimologically related with the Bogomils (Babuns).
Yes. This is the kind of video I like. Where I have no idea what is happening. It's both fascinating and mysterious.
Thanks for watching and for commenting!
@SUNIL KUMAR
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Wow another great show and another great guest! Thanks to both of you for putting out this informative piece on a fascinating subject.
Thank you Nick.
Nice to see Dr. Florin Curta.
I'm from Serbia and I know alot about Bogumils from our orthodox perspective, ready to go...
Thanks for watching and for commenting! I can’t have Dr. Curta on enough, love listening to all of his awesome insights! Cheers from Oklahoma, USA!
15min
They pop out of nowhere in Bulgaria in 10 cent.?
-They came from Asia minor and they were called "massalian sect"...
Occultist say they are have "Zoroastrian techings"....
@@MilanTheMan69 all of this will be addressed! Dr. Curta will cover quite a bit here and I think you’ll enjoy it.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449
cheers mate.
I agree, special thanks to Dr. Florin Curta on his work on early Slavs and migrations.
Hope one day we will know more about Thracians. 🙂
I will comment on what "we know" maybe it could be of some use...
25min.
We do have "Slavic mythology".
We were polytheistic pagans before Christianity.
We had 3 main gods:
Perun - Chief god
-god of thunder
-Simillar to greek word:
keraunós - lightning
(P)(k)eraunóus..?!
-endemic plant in Balkans
Iris ilirica- we call "Perunika"
Amblem flower on Bosnian flag.
Vid - "god magcian" ... who see everything, so he is somewhere called :
"Svevid" or "Svetovid" or "Triglav".
Greeks named him "Vidasus"..
Даждбог/ Dajbog- sun god, and rebirth, and keeping cycle on..
As sun have "birth" at sunrise and "death" at sunset- he was wrongly related to god Veles
God of underground...
We belived time goes in circles....
We also had "minor gods".
Svarog, Stribog, Crnobog, Morana...
Just like saints today.
As every house had their "god protector" that is what we believe the story where our "Slava" comes from.
There was a great strugle between Christianty and paganism here.
And it seems like we incorporated much of it into Christianity, like Serbian "slava" as we call it,
Another example, we have saint
"Vidovdan" as celebrating saint.
In Serbian language "Vid" means:
Vid - sight ; eyesight; be able to see
Videti - to look;
Vidati - heal ; to heal somebody
Vidar - healer
I think big subject easly skiped
.....
Bogumils came here like forth side of the story, we we against Latins also.. 😅
Thank you so much for this most fascinating and erudite explanation of what is known of the Bogomils.
Thanks for the great talks with Prof. Curta. I am not a historian and my interest is rather amateur but I came across an alternative view concerning the Christianization of Bulgaria. It seems that contrary to the textbook narrative Christianity was way more widespread in Bulgaria many centuries before St. Knas Boris I officially introduced Christianity as a state religion. The actual historical phenomenon was just this - creating the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. On the other hand, there seems to have been a kind of grassroots Christianity that had been around for some time evolving in a kind of unguided way, maybe going astray under the influence of other heresies, and Bogomils were maybe a reaction of this popular Christian belief to institutionalizing it.
That is in no way an alternative view. As being part of the Eastern Roman Empire before 680, when the First Bulgarian Empire was founded, these lands and its Hellenised population were already Orthodox Christians.
My ancestors was bogomils and they come in albania , proud of them
I think bogomils 'heretics' bosnian church and why they all flew/thrived in bosnia deserves a little bit more attention and would love another guest who could speak on it.
Becouse Bosna is place where it all began, but also where it all ended!
Other thing, Bosnian heretics where never caled Bogumils but KRSTJANS..
Bosnian KRSTJANS was a monotheistic religion and which denied Jesus as God, but preached like Islam, and that is that Jesus is God's messenger
@@KraljevstvoBosansko polako ba- krstjans simply means christians and theres no proof all of them switched to islam
@@lidiabano4698 Most of them, main proof is that they think that roman christianity is devils creation, they suffered a lot becouse of Rome, 2 or 3 crusades were against Bosnia, they surely did not accept Ronan religion after all of that, you can be sure..
They mostly accept Islam becouse of similarities between teachings..
Bosnian Church and Bogomilism is actually not the same.
Bosnian Church was a Christian church with many local (Slavic) specifics, sometimes under medium pressure of Catholics to synchronise with Catholicism more. Bosnian Church was the official religion of Bosnian Kingdom, later turning to Catholicism, which isnt even a giant change, it's just flavours and allegiances of christianity.
Bogomilis were an unusual (dualist) sect from Bulgaria, often heavily persecuted and burned by the Orthodox Church. Bosnia was maybe a refuge for Bogomils, as being outside of Orthodox/Byzantine Sphere. But not for long since even Bosnian kings persecuted them later on.
As a Bulgarian follower I am reallly surprised to see this topic discussed. - Congrats from us. We have a nowaday movement in Bulgaria that represents the Bogomils philosophy and practice as well.
I also met people still remembering us in modern Catalunya.
I also do not want to sound "too nationalistic" but the Bogomils had nothing to do with the "Greek philosophy" as the earliest related mystical schools in our land are The Zalmoksi, Sabazii, Dionis, Orfei and his, school, religious beliefs and reforms, who is definitely pre-greek. The Orfism is closely related to the Bogomils. So it is vice-versa-the old Greeks took some ideas from those pre-greek population and culture. There were also several great Thracian mysterious rites and centre's, some of them are presently in modern Greek (after the Balkan wars) but explaining them with Greek terminology means simply to miss the point. Some of them are in present day Turkey and some in present day Bulgaria, which is now cut in pieses. Those were the sources of the early ancient mystical culture-Eleusina, Perperek, Delhi etc. All those were pre-greek centers of wisdom.
Dr. Curta should be given a medal for introducing this topic to a wider audience, however some facts just escaped him. 1) According to St. Sava's Life of Stefan Nemanja, in 1186 Nemanja called a council against Bogumils who spread from Bulgaria, after which he started a systematic persecution against them, causing survivors to flee from Rascia/Serbia to Bosnia, so there are clear connections between Bogumils in Bulgaria and Bosnia. A few remained in Serbia as rulers up until the 14th century issued laws aganst them. 2) There were quite a few Crusades against Bogumils in Bosnia, all called up by the Popes and mostly acted on by a Hungarian king. Catholic church did also establish a Bosnian bishop sitting in Croatian town on Djakovo, being the bishop of Bosnia in name only. In a few ocasions kings of Hungary forced Bosnian rulers and nobility to give an oath against Bogumils 3) There are many unclear things about Bogumils in Bosnia; At different times Orthodox and Catholic church made their inroads. Local rulers protected them but were mostly ambivalent towards religion or made sure to support all religions alike. Nobility liked Bogumils because unlike Orthodox/Catholic church they did not need rich churches and lands, therefore Bogumils were not rivals for land. Upon fall of Bosnia to the Turks in 1463, Turkish sources/census talks about Bogumils as well, however it turns out that their numbers were negligent at that point compared to Orthodox or Catholics in Bosnia. At that point Bogumilsm was almost completely thing of past. Could this be because of pro-Catholic policy of the last 2 rulers of Bosnia, or were they ever a clear majority is largely unknown. They certainly held much more powerful positions before, and there are remains of the seat of Bogumil church in Mili near Visoko in Bosnia, at the heart of Bosnian medieval state. It is likely that Bogumulism was a doctrine which many locals found to be acceptable and worthy of belief at different times.
I have read that many Bogomils, due to persecution from both Orthodox and Catholic churches, converted to Islam after the Ottomans conquered the Balkans. Is it true?
@@mihaelac2472 While that narrative exists, it can not be proven in any way. As previously mentioned a few Turkish defters/census books of Bosnia towards the end of the 15th century paint a very different picture. They did distinguish all 3 Christian groups, and numbers of remaining Bogumils by that time were almost negligent - they were already for quite some time on the verge of disappearance. At the same time there was no significant Muslim population yet. That whole period is one chaos and large population movement. More realistic theory is that majority of Bosniak Muslim population today comes from sipahi's - Ottoman landowners/soldiers which had to withdraw from large parts of Hungary and especially Slavonia after the territorial losses the Turks suffered in the Great Turkish war (1699). These soldiers were probably initially recruited from various populations across the Balkans and likely included some feudal aristocracy before the Turkish rule that accepted to fight for the Ottoman cause. In a similar fashion Bosniak/Muslim population of Sanjak region in Serbia/Montenegro comes from Bosniak's that have left Bosnia upon Austrian takeover in 1878 and have then settled in an otherwise sparsely populated region.
I am Bosnian and I have researched and studied Bogomil and its predecessors
As a ex-Yugoslavian, you cannot have an objective perspective on history.
@@carlustin4034 indeed she can have SEVERAL different "objective" perspectives on history, one for federal republic. All at once. :D
@@stefanodadamo6809 History is a complex science that is proven with facts. Some regimes change it to propaganda which is not scientific. They wanted to , manipulate their people. The already dead artificial state called Yugoslavia used such propaganda. Unfortunately, many people still live in this fantasy. You may have a different perspective on gravity and believe does not exist. You can check it by jumping from the 5th floor. Ex Yugoslavian Titovists were more brainwashed than Stalinists and Hitler Nazists. Stalinists and Nazist had to change and they did. But modern Titovists mixed with nationalism still stay on that level they caused war and war crimes in 21st century. I do not trust Stalinists,Titovists and Nazis perspective on history :D It is your choice but I warn that mentality hurts at the end
Koja si ti budala🙄
@@carlustin4034 If he is Slavian and he lives in the Yug ("the South") isn't this itself making him Southern Slavian (Yugo Slavian)? I guess you don't even know a single Slavic language, yet you play a Slavologist here.
Cheers from Poland to all Yugoslavian nations and their respective countries!
Learned a lot from this; thank you. I'd love to learn even more about them.
then learn about Bosnia then... Bosnia is old spiritual center of Europe.. for those "Heretics" of Europe... main thins is that is not dualisam.. it is anicent monoteizam, spread by Aphosto, Arius in 3st...
I watched this video this morning, curious but not super excited--I'd heard of the Bogomils but only in a vague context while reading about heresies in late antiquity and the medieval era (and I also read Foucault's Pendulum, which I loved, 25 years ago or so). By the end, I was amazed. This was one of your very best expert presentations/interviews. Dr. Curta was clear and fascinating in the content and consideration he shared. And Nick, your questions and overall handling of the presentation was maybe the best I've seen of yours, and I've seen almost every video at this point (give me a little more time, I'll see them all). Copious thanks and congratulations. This was excellent, informative, fun at every level.
Dr Florin Curta should visit Bosnia to increase his knowledge about the Bogomils’ history. This was the last bastion of Bogomils before the Pope’s crusade and the arrival of the Ottomans.
A little arrogant of you. Why do you think he did not or why does he have to? Anything important left out?
@@porcudracului What is arrogant about my comment above? You have misread it.
@@DI-li6jithen I retract and apologize. It sounded like a sarcastic comment. Apparently only in my head
I am from Balkan and this video is full of lies. Bogumili were original Christians (practicly meaning the same thing) believing in one God not trinity. Sometimes in the east Slovakia-Poland-Russia called Staro verci translated "Old believers". Founded by apostle Paul. They were presecuted and killed by Chatolics and Ortodox.
In Bulgaria have a lot of old artefacts, there's a ancient golden book, known as Orphaus golden book
The ancient beginnings of Thracian religion may influence Greek and Roman one. Not everything is Hellenistic as their culture look up to Egypt, they took knowledge of Mesopotamia. But Almost Nowhere Thracian culture is mentioned. Orfeus, Spartacus and Yes maybe Troy is not Greek! Great story coming out of the box of today’s Main Street narrative.
😤😤😤
Greeks claim as Hellenic everything that suits them. Good for politics, tourism and mostly monetary profit! Also even ancient Hellenic civilization doesn't just belong to Greeks really. It's not like it happened 50 years ago.
After all most of this Hellenic stuff happened outside of what is Greece today!
@@zuzudernegger9721 is your inferiority complex speaking?
I just watched "The Origin of The Bogomils and their History" in You Tube with Dr. Curta. I learned a lot of amazing information wich I was able to match with some the history facts that I already knew and to find some connections that were necessary to have a more complete picture. My knowledge about this interesting subject improved a lot.
Thank you Nick and Dr Curta, fascinating stuff 😊
The Bosnians were Bogumil Christians before the Ottoman Islamic period we even got hunted by the pope and the catholic church
Bosnians like Macedonians alike but not Bulgarians and Serbians that’s why I love Bosna ! 🇲🇰🇧🇦❤️
@@DOOMMAKEDONIA Macedonians are Bulgarians
The Macedonian Mijak Pope Bogomil from Oreshe Macedonia is where bogomilism originated from, we have a lot of names like bogdanovski bogoevski etc etc
That is what is up!
Another chapter of the Macedonian fantasy chronicles?
@@o6ina what part was fantasy lol ?
@@o6ina explain yourself
@@vmro9446 Most of your official history is a fantasy fairy tale, since you ask. But that part, that you are still Bogomils, I hear for the first time and it is hilarious! Great imagination!
Theophilus was a pseudonym for a specific Disciple. The Beloved Disciple who sat beside Jesus at the Last Supper; most likely Thomas called Didymus, the Disciple who was first to arrive at the Tomb but who did not enter.
Please, make a video about the isihasts, I am sure you and your audience also will enjoy it very much because their story is even more fascinated and interesting!
The term Bogomil in free translation means "dear to God", and is a compound of the Slavic words for "god" (Common Slavic: *bogъ) and "dear" (Common Slavic: *milъ). It may be also a translation of the Greek name Theophilos, literally "dear to God; loved by the gods," from theos "god" + philos "loved, beloved". It is difficult to ascertain whether the name was taken from the reputed founder of that movement, the priest Bogomil, or whether he assumed that name after it had been given to the sect itself. The word is an Old Church Slavonic calque of Massaliani, the Syriac name of the sect corresponding to the Greek Euchites. The Bogomils are identified with the Messalians in Greek and Slavonic documents from the 12th-14th centuries. Cosmas the Priest notes that they were infamous and vilified for maintaining multitudes of pre-Christian, Slavic traditions, including the playing of the Gusli.
Hello from Greece! Well done for your wonderful work! Dr. Florin is very interesting! I will watch you closer from now on!
Cant belive they dont even mention Bosnia, an old spiritual center of all european "heretics", country wich is most important for this subject!
The land where Got bishop Wulfil whrite first arijan bible, on alphabet Bosancica!
The land where was founder of Arijanisam lived to his death, aphostol Arius
they do just show Bosnian thombstones Stecaks pictures, but no mention of its orgin land, so shame!
Arianism predates Arius and also his teacher Lucian of Antioch as Lucian was significantly influenced by his own teacher who is only known by the name of Macarius of Edessa, who was a layman teacher in the same accord as the Apostolic teachers of old, so if you want to pin point a founder then the trail would most likely go back to Jesus' day as Arianism is very much in line with the perception of Hebraic Monotheism found in the Tanakh, it is only coincidental that it is named after Arius despite him not being the founder.
As an Arian myself I do not quite understand how you connect the Bogomils with Arianism because we have writings of Rastko Nemanjic from those days which have been translated by Miodrag Petrovic, these writings bear witness to the fact that the Bogomils in the Balkans were quasi Catholics masquerading as Orthodox Christians whose sole intention was to enlarge the presence of Catholicism among the Serbs and to subdue them and have them bend the knee in service to Rome.
Whoever says that the Bogomils and Arianism are one and the same is mistaken because none of us were there to witness it, but Rastko Nemanjic was there and his writings clearly state that they were fundamentally Catholic, to say otherwise without citing sources from that time is wishful thinking at its finest.
hahaha oh man there is so much you dont know..
what does rastko and serbs have anything with Arianism? Goths and Arie was in bosnia houndrets of years before Serbs comeing to Balkan in 7st !
Today we have many old documents and records, which I just said, wich proveing continuity of a same belief in Bosnia lasted for 2000 years, at least that basis of belief ... to who West and the East opposed it so much against! But unfortunately many of these documents are not available to the public today, especially to you in the west or beyond ... however, as much as we have historical materials today, a hundred times more have been destroyed, burned and covered up ...
Even in the last war in Bosnia, Serbs destroyed and burned 3 million historical documents along with the national libraryof Bosnia(googleit)
The UN had special units that investigated in Bosnia and destroyed everything that did not suit them!
So I will repeat to you! Respect for your knowledge, sry but there is so much on this topic that you do not know about!
I did not say that the old religion of Bosnia is same as Arianism, but I said that the old religion of Bosnia has its origins in Gothic Arianism.
and that all European "heretical" movements started right from Bosnia, right where the Arye spread his teachings,where Bishop Wulfil wrote the first Arian Bible (In VISOKO) and so on. And I agree that Arianism is older than the Arye, the Arya were the name for spiritual leader of the religion ... and that the origin of this religion goes far BC ..
(We have records from a friar who mentions the spiritual leader ( Did ) of this ancient religion, back in the time of Japheth's descendants, but aside from that ...
If you want to know real truth, it Is enough to follow the disengagement of the deity of Christ in the territory of Bosnia and you will see the real truth, no matter how religious it has been called over time ...
We have data from 2000 years ago, from the trial of Illyrian priests, because of the same "heresy" for which Arias was expelled to the territory of today's Bosnia, also for which Arianism was condemned, and also a thousand and a half years later for which the Pope/Rome twice send crusade to Bosnia, always same reason, and there has always been a denial of Christ as God!
Even today in Bosnia there is a religion that says the same thing "Jesus is not God, he is God's messenger" and that is exactly the tradition in Bosnia 2000 years in the past ... So it is not surprising to me that people in Europe and the world today have no idea about this, many things from Bosnian history have been destroyed and covered up for all time, and this has been done for centuries! regards fromAnicent land Bassania! ;)
@@gordonlewis7837 And one more very important thing ... how absurd would it be to learn about the History of the Syrians from the Jews and Israel? : D
It is so absurd that you learn about the old Bosnian religion from Rastko Nemanjica or Rome, in fact sworn enemies of Bosnia and the old Bosnian religion, since the time when Serbs came to the Balkans in the 7th century and were collaborators of Rome in destroying Bosnia, later collaborators of Byzantium.
Well, a descendant of Rastko, Nemanjic committed the first genocide against Bosnians and supporters of the Bosnian church in the 12th century in Raska, killed the ruler of Raska named Tihomir, killed his family and all the nobles, burned at the stake and branded, some then escaped to Bosnia , all these people were loyal to the crown of Bosnia and the Bosnian faith ... Serbia's largest state documents write about how to exterminate Bosniaks and Bosnian Christians .. "Načrtanije" Lives of Simeon "Krmčija" and so on ... in all these state documents you have information on how to persecute and kill exactly the religion we are talking about here.
Isn't it ridiculous to quote some Rastko Nemanjic here? hahah
@@gordonlewis7837 And one more very important thing ... how absurd would it be to learn about the History of the Syrians from the Jews and Israel? : D
It is so absurd that you learn about the old Bosnian religion from Rastko Nemanjica or Rome, in fact sworn enemies of Bosnia and the old Bosnian religion, since the time when Serbs came to the Balkans in the 7th century and were collaborators of Rome in destroying Bosnia, later collaborators of Byzantium.
Well, a descendant of Rastko, Nemanjic committed the first genocide against Bosnians and supporters of the Bosnian church in the 12th century in Rascia, killed the ruler of Rascia named Tihomir, killed his family and all the nobles, burned at the stake etc. some of them saved them slefs escapeing to Bosnia , all these people were loyal to the crown of Bosnia and the Bosnian faith ... Serbia's largest state documents write about how to exterminate old Bosniaks and Bosnian Christians .. "Načrtanije" Lives of Simeon "Krmčija" and so on ... in all these state documents you have information on how to persecute and kill exactly the religion we are talking about here.
Isn't it ridiculous to quote some Rastko Nemanjic here? hahah
@@KraljevstvoBosansko No what is ridiculous is to specify things which are highly subjective and are unreliable as you yourself, being Bosnian, have a motive to claim these things and clearly are living in your own bubble.
Concerning the Serbs "coming to the Balkans", gee, why is it then that Serbs and Bosnians are the most genetically similar people on the Balkans? They are more similar to one another than they are with other peoples, no not even Montenegrins are so similar as Serbs and Bosnians.
So if Serbs came to the Balkans then your people came with them as well so I'd say back to the drawing board and rethink this approach because by claiming that the Serbs are foreigners you are shooting yourself in the foot as well but since you are highly subjective and clearly live in your own bubble you cannot notice this major flaw in this, eh, shallow reasoning of yours.
After all we can conclude that we know next to nothing about Bogumils. Not surprising if they rejected everything and anything material, they haven't left much behind them.
Bogomilstvoto is bulgarian and we share it with the world
I'm in Yambol I asked a local about the Bogomils I got a positive answer I'm glad the Bulgarian people are acknowledging the Bogomils as many French accept the Cathars existence apparently the Bogomils & Cathars had contact according to Marcel Messing.
One should acknowledge them but not consider them as either correct, wise, or even heroes.
@@str.77 Sadly the truth was hidden I saw a very famous German book that recorded their trial & slaughter in Cologne & other cities although some definitely made it to England.
@@livestreamsrecordingsuk4529 You're talking about Cathars, aren't you.
Sure it wasn't nice jut they also struck the first blow.
@@livestreamsrecordingsuk4529 PS. What "very famous German book" are you talking about?
48:00 There is no "Old chirch Slavonic"!- It was an old Bulgarian. What I so confusing about the logical facts?
Bogomilism is perhaps a culture trait MORE than a trait of ideology or of ideas - this area was united strongly inside an old culture of 5 to 7 thousand yrs in the past
Perhaps not at all 😂 it was a religious sect
It was both, Milosh.
Congratulations for the wonderful, informative and very objective video! I am waching you with a big pleasure. Keep doing the same exellent work! All the best!
the teaching of the Bogomils exists even today. It was spread by the teacher Peter Danov
Unfortunately, yes.
Fortunately, yes.
Not all the gnostics were anticosmic. See, for example, Clement of Alexandria. You might find the Mandaean Book of John [the Baptist] or their Haran Gawaita of interest. Basically, it would seem that they viewed Saturn as the Most High God and Jupiter, his Son, who sort of botched the Creation.
26:35 Zeus is himself a pre-Greec, Thraco-Illirian God. Nothing to find there ad "Greek". - It is all upside-down. The "Hellenisation" of Zeus happened also quite "postmortum" at least a half millennium after the first "Greek" settlements in Europe.
I found it difficult to listen to Dr
Curta because the sound was terrible, his words kept cutting out every minute & it was so irritating to try & listen.
With no disrespect to Dr Curta, his accent was hard to follow but added to the fact his voice kept cutting out, his speed of speech culminated in my vertual lack of learning anything about the Bogomils
Also not sure why the dead sea scrolls needed explaing.
I hope im not offending anyone as im trying hard to stay with this video
I mainly wanted to learn about the Bogomils invasion of Ireland
So i hope something of that nature is covered.
Thanks for your interesting video. There are many new facts about the Bogomils. I recommend you to meet prof. Damian Pophristov who wrote a book with very new information. He had been researching this theme about 17 years while he teached in the NY university.
Maybe I misunderstood something, but it seems to me, that because the Bogomills refrained from sex; they simply died out. That may not only be what happened to them, but it also could be why they may not have been massacred, because the Catholic Church figured, "Why hassle with killing them off, if they're dying out anyway?".
No. Only the ones, who reached the status of perfect, refrained from sex and did a lot of fasting. There were several different ranks of Bogomils. The "perfects" were community leaders, who were provided for. But they had to be the living conscience of the community. For example, they tried to answer the question: Where did evil come from?
@@dumdebadaba I see. ...I wonder if the existence of "perfect" Bogomills helped influence the Catholic Church to require their priests and other officials to be celibate?
This most definitely did happen to the Manicheans
Well that sounds strange right? XD
But actually no, they re quite a lot of strong evidences pointing that Bogomils went into the shadows, meaning to hide from the public, in order to survive and their sacred knowledge.
Its often stated they re the creators of the first secret societies spanding across lots of high ranking officials in Europe, from the Dogue of Venice to the famous scholar Bulgaricus (this name became more of an high erudite/educational title in a later stage, you can find several Bulgaricus in different ages in Bologna University) co-founder of the medieval Bologna University.
It may sound strange but they re some strong evidences in correspondence and etc.
Usage of specific words etc.
Some people lead to the fact that the first masonic and Illuminati societies have their roots from thr Bogomil secret society as well.
@@morski_ludak2239Hm yeah Bogolism is 1000000000 years old and a source of everything mysterious ever.
Bulgarians are the first Christians. They accepted the teachings from St. Andrews who came to Europe via Black Sea and accosted in today's Tzarevo. Later the christianisation 10th century is political and connected to the Byzantine influences.
The Orthodox Church. It was all political move .
The original Christians were vegetarian accepted karma and reincarnation and the Bogomils wanted to preserve these teachings.
The teachings were close to the original so called Thracian culture given by Orpheus.
Bulgarians are the decendents of the Thracians. The Greeks came much later to Europe from north Africa.
The history has been terribly twisted to minimise the Bulgarians and their position in ancient Europe.
Utter bulshit!
Bogumili (older form: Bogomili) were supporters of Christian teachings that developed from the 10th to the 15th century among the Slavs in the Balkans. They appeared in the 10th century in Bulgaria and in the 13th century they were scattered in Central Europe under the Manichaean sect. They will probably influence the movement of Qatar.
The supposed founder of the teachings, Pope Bogomil, preached in Macedonia in the middle of the 10th century. They claimed, like Protestants later, that they were in favor of a return to early Christianity, rejecting church hierarchy, authority and violence, in the name of "evangelical equality". The main political tendency of Bogomilism was resistance to Byzantine state and church authority, which helped the movement spread quickly among the Balkan Slavs.
Bogumilstvo (older form: Bogomilstvo) spread from Macedonia and Bulgaria to the Byzantine Empire, Kievan Rus, Serbia, Bosnia, Dalmatia, Italy and France, and to a lesser extent to other countries of Western Europe, even reaching the British Isles. By the beginning of the 13th century, the Christian communities of Europe, which included the Paulites and Bogomils in the east and the Cathars in the west, were connected in a network that stretched from the Black Sea to the Atlantic Ocean. The ruling church, both Eastern and Western, fiercely persecuted the God-homils. For this purpose, several councils were convened, where books and people were burned along with those declared heretics, and several military campaigns were launched.
The etymology of the name Bogumili is derived from the Old Slavic words "Bogo miluj" (God have mercy), so some authors call Bogomilstvo the teaching of God's mercy. , or he took that name after it became the name of the movement.
Burning people the church declared heretics.
It is believed that the worship of God in Dalmatia (Croatia) has its forerunners in the Glagolitic movement (see: Gregory of Nin) and the Cyril and Methodius tradition of Slavic worship. During the 12th century, Pataranese, that is, Bogumil teaching penetrated the Dalmatian cities, especially Zadar, Trogir and Split. At the Cathar assembly in Saint Felix held in 1167, the church of Dalmatia is also mentioned. In 1185, a metropolitan synod was held in Split, which cursed all "sects of heretics" who "denigrate the science" of the Roman Church and demanded from the authorities in the Dalmatian cities the confiscation of their property, their excommunication and persecution. Bernard, the new archbishop of Split, shortly after taking office in 1196, expelled the patarenes from the city, confiscating their properties. Many exiles then, at the beginning of 1200, found refuge under the auspices of the Bosnian Church and Ban Kulin.
In medieval Serbia, the Orthodox Church and the Nemanjic state persecuted the Bogumites as heretics, calling them baboons.[4] In 1186, the great prefect Stefan Nemanja convened a church-state assembly against the Bogomils in Raška. At the council, their teaching was condemned as heresy. This was followed by the persecution of Bogomils in Raška,
Crkva bosanska je bila crkvena zajednica bosanskih hrišćana u srednjem veku, koja za vreme bana Kulina (1180-1204) dospeva u središte međunarodne pažnje jer pruža utočište prognanim patarenima iz Dalmacije i babunima iz Raške. Kulin prognanicima pruža utočište, i prima ih kao dobre hrišćane, ostavši u narodu upamćen kao „dobri ban Kulin“. Usled dvadesetogodišnjeg krstaškog rata protiv katara u Francuskoj od 1209. do 1229. godine, mnogi prognani takođe beže u Bosnu. 1223. godine, za vreme starešinstva djeda Rastudija, papin legat za Francusku piše o postojanju jeresonačelnika kojeg katari nazivaju papom a koji živi na Balkanu.[30] Papa Grgur IX 1234. godine započinje krstaški rat protiv jeretika u Bosni.
Bogumili appeared in Bulgaria in the middle of the 10th century. John the Exarch, a Bulgarian priest and theologian, attacks dualistic heretics in the Sixth Day, written around 915. He discusses at length that there is no evil principle (evil force) in creation. Presbyter Kozma, in a tract entitled Sermon on Heresy, written around 972, states that the "Bogumar heretics" "believed and thought that they were suffering for justice and that they would receive some kind of reward from God for chains and prison", from which it can be seen that were brutally persecuted by the authorities in Bulgaria in the 10th century.[16] On February 11, 1211, Emperor Boril convened a state-church assembly against the Bogomils in Bulgaria in Trnovo.
Bogumili in Russia
The first page of the 11th century Novgorod Codex.
In 1004, about 25 years after the official introduction of Christianity to Kievan Rus, the priest Adrian taught a similar doctrine to the Bogomils, and was imprisoned by Leontius, the Bishop of Kiev, for this. In 1125, the church in southern Russia condemned a preacher named Dmitri as a heretic.
In 2000, the Novgorod Codex, a collection of apocryphal writings, translations and original Slavic works, was found, which testifies to the presence of Bogomil or similar "heretical" teachings in the Novgorod region at the turn of the 10th to the 11th century.[25] The Ukrainian fairy tale of Pravda i Krivda (kazka pro Pravdu j Krivdu) is also thought to be inspired by Bogomil dualism.
Bogumili in Byzantium
Bogumilism first appeared in Byzantium among the Slavs, and soon spread among the non-Slavic population of Constantinople and Asia Minor. In 1034, Euthymius, a monk from Constantinople, a native of Akmonia in Asia Minor, wrote a polemical treatise against the Bogomils of Asia Minor.[27] Emperor Alexius I Comnenus (1081-1118) begins the persecution of Bogomils and Paulites, who did not want to accept the official Orthodox faith and rebelled against Byzantine rule. During the 1140s, a series of trials of Bogomils were held in Constantinople. One of the more serious outbreaks of blasphemy occurred in the early 1320s, parallel to the appearance of Hesychasm, on Mount Athos, the monastic center of the Orthodox world.
Toponyms in Macedonia remind us of Bogumila today, such as Babuna village, Bogomil (near Veles), Torbachi, Kutugerci (in Bulgaria), Jeremija, Babuna mountain and Babuna river, Bogomilsko pole valley, etc. Babun stream near Mostar and the surname Babunović in Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia.
Thanks for the video
Good evening. Arab sources called Paulicians "Baylakānī" (it is written even in the same wikipedia) and there is a city of Baylakan in Azerbaijan, my country. That is why we do consider they were from our city of Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan right near Armenia, that you showed on the map.
It seems like you've cleaned out your shelves. Could it that you are prepping for more books?
In the process of getting ready to move! Haha! Thanks for noticing. Sixty boxes and counting....... I’m going to look like a body builder when I move all those. Hahaha.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 that what happens when you move. Besides a sore body.
I hadn't noticed but I had to correct that; ”ways" to ”what”
The official thesis of the appearing of the Bogomils is frankly ridiculous. The Church had good merit for it.
We have to look much further back in time to understand the Bogomile mouvement. It starts with the Orphic doctrine that was widely spread amongst Bulgarians before the Roman Empire period. The Bulgarians accepted very easily the Christian teachings in the 1st century because the Orphic doctrine and the Christian one were very similar. ( I assume that the reader is not overwhelmed with the lies that Bulgarians arrived from Asia in 681AD.Bulgarians are local Balkanic populations)
After a few centuries of doctrinal wars in Constantinople between Bulgarians and Greeks and some conciles mainly of Greek priests, the Greeks took the religious power, even if most of the emperors were from Moesian ( Bulgarian) origins and changed drastically the original Christian doctrine ( they removed the reincarnation, the women were deprived of having a soul, no equality etc) .
When Boris -Michael imposed the Greek orthodoxy for political reasons in 864 in Bulgaria this created a big rejection amongst the population and this is the main reason why the Bogomiles went to Bosna and later to the modern North Italy and Southern France. The Church- Catholics and Greek Orthodox were considering those keepers of the original apostolic teaching as a threat. That’s why the fate the Church reserved them was extermination.
Good presentation, but once again I notice that the English language doesn't make it easy to comprehend terms, e.g. Marcion is pronounced as if he was called Martian. Paulicians as if they were Polishians.
24:24 The lecturer is in doubt as to the connection between the Bogomils and Zoroadtrism. He missed the fact that Bulgaria and Persia were one and a same country for more than 1500 years during 3 millennium. Our ancestors were proved worshipping The Sun and the Fire (Ogan) at least for some 3500 years till mow.
Did I catch this correctly: the Apocryphon of John? (Singular form of apocrypha). I find gnosticism hard to understand, but I got the impression that it always contains some element of secret wisdom that is only attainable by the initiated, is this accurate? Thanks.
Yes, the secret knowledge is the wisdom or gnosis which is gained through a direct experience of the divine. The patriarch Enoch examples the only written account of such an interaction.
@@kilowhiskeyalpha6078 There are other accounts such as the Grandfather of Zoroaster which is quite lengthy in the gnostic treatises (possibly Tripartite Tractate).
Unbaptized people can not be heretics. Baptized believers can be guilty of material or formal heresy. Ideas can be declared heretical.
Bulgarian Paulicians, Pavlikeni become Catholics in the 16th-17th century.
Yes, they live in what is nowadays Hungary. But they remember their Bulgarian origins. Their churches have some Bulgarian inscriptions, but in the Latin and not the Cyrillic alphabet.
@@dumdebadaba those are only one bit of the Bulgarian catholics. The majority live around Plovdiv and Svishtov
@@dumdebadaba Different groups migrated to Hungary for different reasons. They did also in Romania and many other countries. In Bulgaria even is a city called Pavlikeni. Some Catholics ex. Paulikanians had immigrated to Austro--Hungaria and received rights and freedoms , later that was incorporated in Romania. Some Paulikenians become Muslims. They are called Pomaks. The story of Bogomils is the Eastern Roman Empire aka. Byzantium exiled from Armenia (Asia , very old churches, contacts with Persian and Indian philosophies) many people into Thrace 7-8th century. Thrace was conquered by Bulgarians. In 9th century especially the 10th different forms of Christianity spread in Bulgaria. It was more like a civil movement against authority ,state and Church and spread into Europe.Those who were against state church later had to escape from Islam.
We still exist in Rhodopes!
Bartul Silich my dad and mum told me that our ancestors were bogomils and that they come from bosnia some time about 1500 to 1600 ad to the island of korcula croatia
Great interview, thank you and Dr. Curti. Regarding the crusades against the people deemed as heretics there have been crusades against the ones in Bosnia. One was by the hungarians from 1235 to 1241 called for by the pope. It did not succeed however because of the mongol invasion of Hungary.
Nit realy! Heretic is the standard acuzation in medieval time. There are no evidences for a Real crusade in bosnia. 85% of bosnians were catolics.
@@ramsaysnow9196 That’s exactly what it was. The Bosnians were heretics according to the pope, who then gave the green light for king Stefan to invade Bosnia. They burned people along their way through Bosnia and had to withdraw due to the Mongul invasion of Buda and Pesta.
Looking forward to this.
Thank you for watching!
You are so wrong... btw i am from Bosnia, and i study hisory.. so, "Bogumilizam" in Bosnia came with aphostol ARIUS in 3st.n.e. and it is spread trough Europe by GOTS, Ostrogots in case of Bosnia..
Bosnian old religion caled "KRSTJANS" was not dualism for sure.. it is Anicent monoteism,old some say thousands of years!
Sorry Edo but there is no connection between Gnosticism and Arianism, if you study history as you say then you would know better.
Why? Because the true origin of the clearly Gnostic Bogomils lies in the 4th and 5th centuries, specifically with the group which the Western AND Eastern Romans dubbed "Cathars".
The term Cathar originates from a Gnostic heresy which broke out in the Balkans in the 4th century and was publicly present there until the end of the 5th century.
After that the Gnostic heretics stopped being open about their faith and many centuries later, only when their fellow Gnostics, the Paulician Armenians, were resettled to the Balkans by the Eastern Romans, who, in stereotypical Gnostic fashion, were renowned for their extreme fervor for rebellion not only against the government but also against the clergy, did they start to resort back to being open about their Gnostic faith and that is when they started to become outspoken which drew the ire of Rome.
Arianism and Gnosticism have NO connection whatsoever, if you think we are the same then I would like to draw your attention to the fact that we Arians believe that one being created everything, soul and matter, that being is VERY much knowable and perceivable in subtle ways but Gnostics will believe that there are 2 creators; one evil being or multiple evil beings created matter and one invisible and unknowable good being created the soul.
Furthermore we Arians believe that THROUGH faith in Jesus we can know God, who created everything, in Him we have salvation and this salvation is granted to us in grace, not relying on works or on deeds but on faith in the grace of God and His mercy, whereas Gnostics believe that the world was created by one or multiple evil beings who run this world, they believe that world is 100% evil and that the body is also purely evil, they believe that salvation relies on two things; good works and the acquiring of Gnosis; this Gnosis is a form of knowledge which is only acquirable from above, so some supernatural being needs to tell you some hocus pocus and if you unravel the hocus pocus then you can rid yourself of your purely evil human body.
Also, we Arians believe that suicide is a major sin against the creator and is highly disrespectful towards Him, but Gnostics believe that suicide is perfectly okay because it allows oneself to get rid of their evil human bodies and transcend.
There are MANY things which give credence to the fact that Arianism and Gnosticism, in whichever form or sect you want to put it, are two polar opposite perspectives which may have a few similarities but the amount of differences and incompatibilities are so many that it was not, is not and never will be the same thing, no matter how much you wish it to be.
@@gordonlewis7837 "hahaha oh man there is so much you dont know..
what does rastko and serbs have anything with Arianism? Goths and Arie was in bosnia houndrets of years before Serbs comeing to Balkan in 7st !
Today we have many old documents and records, which I just said, wich proveing continuity of a same belief in Bosnia lasted for 2000 years, at least that basis of belief ... to who West and the East opposed it so much against! But unfortunately many of these documents are not available to the public today, especially to you in the west or beyond ... however, as much as we have historical materials today, a hundred times more have been destroyed, burned and covered up ...
Even in the last war in Bosnia, Serbs destroyed and burned 3 million historical documents along with the national libraryof Bosnia(googleit)
The UN had special units that investigated in Bosnia and destroyed everything that did not suit them!
So I will repeat to you! Respect for your knowledge, sry but there is so much on this topic that you do not know about!
I did not say that the old religion of Bosnia is same as Arianism, but I said that the old religion of Bosnia has its origins in Gothic Arianism.
and that all European "heretical" movements started right from Bosnia, right where the Arye spread his teachings,where Bishop Wulfil wrote the first Arian Bible (In VISOKO) and so on. And I agree that Arianism is older than the Arye, the Arya were the name for spiritual leader of the religion ... and that the origin of this religion goes far BC ..
(We have records from a friar who mentions the spiritual leader ( Did ) of this ancient religion, back in the time of Japheth's descendants, but aside from that ...
If you want to know real truth, it Is enough to follow the disengagement of the deity of Christ in the territory of Bosnia and you will see the real truth, no matter how religious it has been called over time ...
We have data from 2000 years ago, from the trial of Illyrian priests, because of the same "heresy" for which Arias was expelled to the territory of today's Bosnia, also for which Arianism was condemned, and also a thousand and a half years later for which the Pope/Rome twice send crusade to Bosnia, always same reason, and there has always been a denial of Christ as God!
Even today in Bosnia there is a religion that says the same thing "Jesus is not God, he is God's messenger" and that is exactly the tradition in Bosnia 2000 years in the past ... So it is not surprising to me that people in Europe and the world today have no idea about this, many things from Bosnian history have been destroyed and covered up for all time, and this has been done for centuries! regards fromAnicent land Bassania! ;)"
@@KraljevstvoBosansko No point in reading your comment when your comment opens with "hahaha oh man there is so much you dont know..
what does rastko and serbs have anything with Arianism?" as you clearly did not read my comment at all.
I stated that the teachings of the Bogomil are recorded in the writings of Rastko Nemanjic and that from that I conclude that they are not Arian Christians, unlike you who is only speculating on the basis of what? Who witnessed what you are commenting in those days? Nobody.
@@gordonlewis7837 Sry man, but you cant know better then me about history of my country, about old religion od my ancestors..
I will repeat to you, how ridiculous is it that you are trying to prove something here about religion, from the records of a man who, besides Rome, was one of the greatest enemies of Bosnia and the Bosnian old religion? The man who killed thousands and thousands in his country own country who were members of the old Bosnian faith?
think a little about what you do ..
You ask who knows what I am writing,? We in Bosnia know, our historians know, folklore too..
but if you have followed the history of Bosnia for a while, then you know that we have no peace for centuries and today our country is threatened with extinction and destruction, new genocides and so on, we simply have much bigger problems right now than this, believe me ...
But here we are again trying to tell our history and the truth of our ancestors to be heard even though we have great difficulties and censorship in all this ...
if you are really interested, go to my channel, there is a video "forbidden hostory of Bosnia" in the video there is a lot of talk about this religion and other things, so look, if you want ..
There is many fb groups and sites about this too
Like "BASSANIA" "KRALJEVSTVO BOSANSKO" etc.
@@gordonlewis7837 There are a lot of categories constitutes as "Gnostics", whereas even Arians has some of the splits and contemporary subsects during the life of Arius, there are a lot of splinters of Christianity even during early years, as even Justinus' Book of Baruch and even Cerinthus and Simon Magus shows of how there are Gnostic Jewish Christians
Which in itself refutes the accusation that "Gnosticism" (or whatever you called it as) to be origin of Paul, just when Paul and Peter had beef with Simon Magus, while early Sethians and Valentinians referred to Paul, Cerinthus referred to Simon Magus, there's a lot of supposed Gnostic (as in Nag Hammadi) texts attributed through Peter, James, Philip, Mary Magdalene, Thomas, etc
At this point any moron calls even non-Gnostics as "Gnostics", also it's funny that you accuse The "Gnostics" to allow suicides just when there's Nag Hammadi Texts such like "Testimony of Truth" which forbids martyrdom and suicide in any form, or texts such as Zostrianos which calls those who tries to commit suicide to relinquish it and not give up based off both Faith and Gnosis
Tl;dr many youtube comment sections like yours can be illiterate buffoons at times to the point of being infuriating and insulting to those who have both heart and head
Check out Basil Chulev, the secret book of the bogomils
Magnificent - lucid and informative. Many thanks for this. M.D.P.
"there is no crusade against Bogumils" - wrong, yes it was a crusade, actually two time on in13st against bosnian "heretics" and bouth of them failed, becouse cruseades lost
Is it possible to have subtitles?
I would like to mention that Bogomili did not call them selves like that they called themselves good christians, if you also check if Catars were called themselve Catars you will see what I mean
We expect THE VATICAN to ease access to libraries for the benefit of humanity. We hope arrested texts in Greece and Russia to see light again.
The Vatican Library welcomes legitimate scholars. They let me research there, and I wrote a book discussing the political lies the catholic church used in the Middle Ages.
@@jasoneckard213 Thank You
Greetings from living bogomils!
Bogomils is a Bulgarian study
🇧🇬🤝🇧🇦⚜️Bogomilism
Are there any relations between the Bogomils and the Alians + Bektashim of Bulgaria?
no
This is religious movement in middle age Bulgaria . Originated there and it’s original Bulgarian . Dig deeper and forget all Greek stuff . People are getting wrong idea …
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching and commenting Savannah!
Unfortunately, Dr's audio is rather bad.
A new article: O. Ciobanu, The Role of the Vlachs in the Bogomils’ Expansion in
the Balkans. in Journal of Balkan and Black Sea Studies
💯
Are the Huguenots descendants of the Cathars?
Bogomils originate from Macedonia, the village of Bogomila and Father Bogomil. As simple as that. They appeared during Bulgarian conquest over Macedonia, so they supported the Tsar Samuel in fighting out the Bulgars and Byzantine. So he formed the first state of the Macedonians
Do not use nickname to bulgarian hero!
Macedonia did not exist at that moment of time! You exist as macedonians after 1945 so be quiet please!
@@alexalex2237 what?🤣🤣🤣 who told you that? Todor Zhivkov or Karakachanov?
Here is a quote of Sandanski:
"We dont fight for Bulgarian Macedonia, but Macedonia for the Macedonians."
"Who told you that the comitee is Bulgarian? We are Macedonians and the organization is not Bulgarian neither are we" - Nikola Karev.
You were saying something? 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Keep Reading the false macedonian school books, and be happy
@V V Woow! If Macedonians were moved to Hunza back then, then your Asparukh was still a spermatosoid in his grand grand grand grand grand father somewhere in Mongolia happiliy married with his horse.
So let's see what happened: Tsar Samuel, who called himseld Tsar of Bulgarians contested his own territory of Vardar Macedonia like King of Ancient Macedonia? You're all so pathetic 🤣🤣🤣
Emperor Theophilus from the 9th century was an iconoclastic heretic, he fought wars in Asia with Arabs, meddled there a lot, certainly was aware that his sect is waning, and loosing followers and the grip on power. I think he wanted to do something to obstruct the future works of his orthodox successors, Paulicans become known in Asia sometimes afther him. Maybe he was that "Bogomil", and arranged the whole thing. He certainly was heretical, and had access to old gnostic texts from imperial libraries, and he was the only Byzantine emperor named Theophilus.
The Bosnian Church was the church community of Bosnian Christians in the Middle Ages. Although the Catholic Church was considered heretical, its members considered themselves Orthodox Christians.
The Bosnian Church provided refuge to religious exiles from various sides: Bogumils from Raška, Patareni from Dalmatia and Cathars from the west, which is why several crusades were launched in Bosnia.
The Bosnian Church ceased to exist after the collapse of the medieval Bosnian state and the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia in 1463.
Among the members of the Church of Bosnia, there were real Christians (clergy, who adhered to all religious canons) and profane, i.e. secular people - laymen (believers, who did not have to strictly adhere to religious regulations). The name Christian or true Christian is often understood in the meaning of the word monk, because of the ascetic life they lived. Unlike the Eastern and Western churches, whose vocations are in Greek or Latin, Bosnian Orthodox Christians used folk Slavic words for the priesthood. The supreme head of the church was the grandfather, and the priests were guests and elders (under the common name strojnici). Many associate those names with the corresponding Greek names, so it is believed that the meaning of the word guest is abbot (who had his own inn), old man is a presbyter, train drivers are priests, and grandfather is a bishop.
Members of the Bosnian Church called themselves Christians (Christians, Krstjani). They used the Old Slavic language in worship, and the Cyrillic alphabet in religious books.
The grandfathers of the Bosnian Church bore folk Slavic names (instead of the then usual Christian names of Greek and Jewish origin), and used Slavic names for all clerical vocations. Years were counted from the birth of Christ, not from the creation of the world (as per the Byzantine calendar). The Bosnian Church did not accept the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of either the Western or the Eastern Church. Due to the pressures, the Bosnian Church officially recognized the Pope and Rome, but did not fulfill its obligations towards the Roman Catholic Church, even providing refuge to those it persecuted.
The Christian Church in Bosnia was first mentioned under the Latin name ecclesia bosnensis (or bistuensis, boestoensis) in 530 and 533 at the church councils in Salona, the metropolis of Roman Dalmatia, where its bishop Andrija signed the acts of the church councils.[1] It is believed that the seat of this Old Christian church municipality was in Mošunj near Travnik or near Zenica, at the time when Bosnia was ruled by the Ostrogoths.
The earliest information about the Bosnian Church comes from the list of grandfathers of the Bosnian Church, where the first head is mentioned as grandfather Jeremija, who is assumed to have led the church between 1010 and 1024 and whom some associate with Pope Jeremija.
At that time, some of the Croatian Glagoliticians and supporters of Slavic worship, who were declared heretics by the Catholic Church at the Split councils, went to Bosnia, where the church allowed the Old Slavic language.
As a result of the persecution of the Bogumils in Raška, which began with the Assembly against the Bogumils of Stefan Nemanja in 1186, a large number of survivors fled to Bosnia, where they found refuge in the hijas (public houses) of the Bosnian church. Around the same time, the Catholic Church, led by the archbishop of Split, expelled from Split and Trogir a large number of patarenes, who found salvation in Bosnia.
In 1233, the Pope sent his envoy to Bosnia, Jakov Pekorari, instructing him to depose the Bosnian bishop, the "protector of heretics", who defended himself as having erred out of ignorance. Jakov Pekorari blamed the Archbishop of Dubrovnik for the situation in the Bosnian diocese, because he was obliged to know about it, and yet he appointed a heretic as bishop and suffered that the service of God was not performed in the churches. That is why the papal legate Jakov exempted the Bosnian diocese from Dubrovnik's jurisdiction and subordinated it to the archbishop of Kaloch. Then he deposed the Bosnian bishop, and in his place in 1234 appointed the German Johann from Wildeshausen, a member of the Dominican order, founded to suppress heresy. The Bosnians did not recognize this bishop, but chose their own, so there were two bishops in Bosnia at the same time, one Bosnian and the other Latin. The Dominicans then, with the help of the Inquisition, began to persecute heretics in Bosnia, which caused great dissatisfaction among the population.
In 1234, Pope Gregory IX started a crusade against heretics in Bosnia, and in 1235, he confirmed the grant of the Hungarian king Andrija, according to which Bosnia belonged to Duke Koloman. Between 1235 and 1237, Hungary carried out a crusade against Bosnia and in the process occupied the territory of Humska zemlje. The war lasted almost five years,
So if they originated from Bulgaria, how is this Bosnian?
I thought bogomili were in Bosnia?
Just finished the paulician chapter from the decline and fall of the roman empire, i searched a bit about the subject, it seems they were the first anachists, they rejected any authority, for their time i say they were really brave for doing that, it was more of societal movement, but anything had to use religion back then in one form or another
lavlje srce je Kralj Kortomanić,,kad nas je mač u Kamenu,,,,
great interview
Bogomil was an actual person who lived in Bulgaria.
My family has Bogomil roots. We can do things that look like magic for normal people. We are very good people also - we can't harm anyone.
Jesus was Bulgarian too - we keep that secret. His name was Asi - and his mother Aria. We call our self Az, As, and we are Arians...
The Bible is the history of Bulgaria, stolen and changed by Greeks and Jews....
Interesting one!
Thanks for watching Boxer!
dedets=grandfather
katharos=clean, agnos=pure.
Wonder what is connection between Cathars and Bogumils?
What u wonder? Bogomilism spred from Bulgaria across all of the Balkans and Eastern Europe like a wildfire! Then reach the lands of Frankish Empire and they called Bogomils with the name cathars!
@@che1878 I was interested in more detailed answer, not this semi literate rant. For example if it spread like wildfire as you say why were there only two strongholds of this belief in Bosnia and France? Were they same thing or just similar?
What was Bosnian church?
Ok... I need more
I think we can oblige friend! Thanks for watching!!
very interesting video!
It would be a lot better with subtitles
Bogumila is the baptise name of my sister in Poland ...old Slavic name...
Paulicians and Bogomils have nothing in common.
i am watching to hear about the stone relief carving in the thumbnail picture....the 3 circles and moon with star is reminiscient of the carving of Leo at nemrut dag
This was for the people.