Star Trek Discovery 5.06 "Whistlespeak" REVIEW
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2024
- Time for a good, old-fashioned away mission!
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I love how when Book is told to relax as there isn't anything he can do right at the moment, he goes and plays Asteroids on a shuttle.
Kovich's office is the same place as Janet's void. Calling it now: Kovich is a Good Place Janet.
They have very different personalities, but I assume that's true of different Janets anyway.
@@Jay32954except Neutral Janet, they have no personality
OMG. A somewhat common Puerto Rican side dish (Mofongo) is now canon in the Star Trek universe. Thank you Discovery!
Hell yeah! We aren’t strongly represented in Trek sadly, so it’s nice to see something 😊
@@Cdr2002 It struck the right tone. It wasn’t something super obvious like arroz con Habichuelas and it wasn’t something super obscure. I already photoshopped a Star Trek Discovery themed meme and posted it to our Puerto Rican restaurants’ Facebook and Instagram pages. I won’t post the name of the restaurants here just in case it gets deleted for shilling.
I feel like this might be the first time I saw Spanish spoken on the show, right?
I had to look it up. And I haven't really enjoyed plantains in the past. But this dish does sound kinda tasty. It also sounds made from the colloquialism, Mofo. Which makes me smile.
@@TyroneMitchell That's bizarre. But languaages from Earth are kinda rare in Trek. Altho we do get Frech from Picard and some more Spanish from Capt. Rios.
What I loved about this episode was that the writers got what the Prime Directive is as a plot device. It's not a strict rule that should never be broken, but instead it's a burden that should weigh heavily on the decisions that someone makes. Helping people out comes with a huge responsibility to make sure that it's done right, and that if it involves upkeep, it must be followed through no matter how long it takes.
For me this episode screams TNG. It was so amazing to see another civilisation with different ways to communicate and explore soke culture of a world we don't know.
Throughout the episode, in my head, I could hear Picards voice narrating his captains log explaining what the situation and away mission was about.
It felt amazing to go back to an episodic style format and tell a story about a culture and people we've never seen. I love Discovery, but I do miss the older style episodes.
If anything this episode proves that it can still be done, and done well. I want more like this.
Hey, the sausage pedal/plugin lol
Tilly mentioned a 'sonic resonater' or something like that as a curative for the chocking women. Isn't the sounds coming from the bowl 'sonic resonation', which to me is a nod to modern medicine drawing from ancient cures?
Yup - they did exactly what she suggested, just analogue.
This is literally one of my favorite episodes of all of Discovery and just makes me a little sad we only have a few episodes left 😩
My theory is that Kovich is actually the David Cronenberg in the Star Trek universe, displaced forward in time.
Ya ... that scene felt like it was breaking the third-wall. And Kovitch actually hangs out in the writers room.
I believe it's cannon that he was time displaced after he was killed by Jason Vorhees.
My theory is that Kovich is actually a 1250 years old David Cronenberg
the notepad bit was kinda.. Too distracting if it was just a random thing
In that case, by god I hope we never see what he programs the Holodeck to do when no one else is around.
my complaint about the previous episode was pretty much directly addressed in this one. After watching the previous episode i was thinking that surely Paul, of all people on Discovery, could understand and appreciate what Culber was going thru, given his past experience with the undefinable "it." And then in this episode, as soon as Culber actually gets Stamets involved, Stamets is helpful and supportive. He basically says "theres nothing medically wrong, so whatever your infinitely complex brain is doing, its okay to enjoy this feeling that you have"
My personal favorite moment in this episode that I thought was really beautiful, was when Tilly and Ravah were given bowls of water to carry, and Ravah spilled theirs. Rather than letting Ravah be disqualified, Tilly shared her water, and I just thought that was so lovely.
You knew as soon as Ravah spilled their water, that Tilly would share her own water with them. Still felt good to see it happen, though.
Ravah is not a girl, they don't use she/her
@@gearandalthefirst7027 You're right, thank you, I'll fix that!
I love this episode because of its message. Trek has had a cynical view of religion on TOS and TNG but during DS9 they had a more nuanced view of it. And that nuance is the core of Burnham's speech to Ohvaz , and Book's message to Culber. "What we've shown you doesnt mean that the Mother Compeer's journey was meaningless. It just means that we're here too. Beliefs can evolve". Religion and spirituality doesnt have to be limited by dogma or the need to force everyone to have the same belief. I like that. This is actually a heartwarming episode.
As an aside: one thing that gets me about this episode is that they're in a room with depleting oxygen and...they keep the fires burning.
I'm not sure how they could have put it out.
@@Jay32954 lol
I think those are supposed to be a mercy. Burn the oxygen faster to shorten the suffering of the sacrifice.
@@Seal0626Huh. Good point.
The main thing that bugs a bit is that no one remembers that the Prime Directive only applies to Starfleet. Other Alien species have no reason to follow it. Discovery shouldn't be dinged for the PD if they were fixing some technology another alien left behind.
I think the Prime Directive should still apply in cases of a Starfleet vessel coming across a civilization where it's obvious that their cultural evolution was muddled with by an outside party that wasn't a Federation member world. Depending on when and how the interference happened...a Starfleet vessel reversing the changes could mean wiping out a culture no longer able to care for itself like it used to do.
The Prime Directive is always intentioned from the writers of much of Trek as an example of how larger nations should conduct themselves, rather than how smaller nations react to being contacted or learning of new technology they haven’t invented themselves. I think that’s where the problems come from
I like to believe the fact it was a Denobulan who built the weather towers was a direct reference to dear doctor showing that not all Denobulans think like Phlox
"Man has always assumed that he is more intelligent than dolphins because he has achieved so much, the wheel, New York, wars and so on, while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But, conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man -- for precisely the same reasons." - Douglas Adams. I dunno, you just reminded me of that so I thought I'd share it.
I love that, in _Star Trek_ canon, cetaceans are sapient-and have always been, rather than being "uplifted," as you'll sometimes see in other franchises.
I believe it's Beta Canon that George & Gracie served as ambassadors to Earth's extant cetaceans and had a "fin" in establishing Starfleet's Cetacean Ops.
@@GSBarlevI especially like the implication in dialogue that if humpback whales hadn’t been wiped out, they’d have been able to translate the probe message just fine from talking to others. Spock didn’t say “it’s non-humanoid speech, so we don’t know what it says”; rather he says there’s no living examples to learn from. So maybe they were already talking to dolphins etc by the 2280s :)
As I write this, the episode won't stream in Brazil for a few hours. But, based on the spolier-free section of it, I 'd like to share a MLK quote, that I think is very apropos of the discussion on rational/ religious discussion: "science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals. They are complementary."
I find it beautiful, but then again, the man was a priest. This should factor in how much weight you give to this quote.
This episode makes me just appreciate how much of a _CHAD_ Daniel Jackson is
He was on that train way before anyone else, understood to meet people at their level and not disrespect their worldview just because they're "less advanced"
The race was a nice callback to Tilly's and Burnham's corridor jogging exercise. There's so many callbacks to earlier seasons/episodes.
As I posted in the previous episode video, the cast had no idea that the show was going to be cancelled until they were getting ready to go on break after wrapping up this season. This episode was geared towards being the last hurrah for the former cabin mates before Tilly was to go off (with maybe a few bridge members, and perhaps Cmdr. Jett Reno who'd be great as a Engineering professor) to their own series.
It's very reminiscent of Wesley's last trip to Starfleet Academy with Picard, when they ended up crashlanding on the desert planet where Wesley had to use his wits and training to help him and Picard survive until rescue.
With the cancellation of Discovery, I can see Burnham making more appearances on Starfleet Academy than she would have had Discovery continued. But until I hear otherwise, I doubt she's going to be on full time in that show. There's a good chance that Sonequa Martin-Green will have opportunities for new shows/movies outside of Star Trek, esp. if this season does really well.
If that doesn't happen, though, it would be nice if there was a 'Long Trek' starring Martin-Green leading into a new series in a few years. Perhaps on a new, smaller ship (hey, if the Enterprise can go from the Enterprise-F, which was larger than previous iterations of NCC-1701, down to approximately the same size of the orginal NCC 1701, then why not a smaller Discovery-B?).
If that ever happened, I hope they ditch the mystery box/galaxy-ending threats clique that this run of Discovery had.
Side note, I wonder if these people with their long distance verbal communications were evolved from primates, like howler monkeys, or from parrot analogues? I know you don't care much for the seeding of Progenitor DNA across the galaxy, but imagine how these people would have evolved had that not happened?
Which leads me to the Breen. What if the form/appearance that L'ak takes with Moll is the way Breen had evolved thanks to the Progenitors, and the other was closer to how they'd be if it hadn't? It could be they were an ancient species that were advanced enough to know what they looked like before the change, let alone develop the technology to create their 'enviro-suits' that allowed them to take on their original form?
Using the Progenitor device to reverse it's effects could potentially allow the Breen to take over the Galaxy, since they'd have an edge on the evolutionary front.
If kovič is future guy, does that make him some sort of watcher (as in Gary 7 and his cat and Phoebe's mum). But the Crusher of it all.....
7:51 I don’t think he’s Future Guy, but I do think he’s the Department of Temporal Investigations guy for the 32nd century Federation
one minor complaint, i 100% understand why this little problem exists in the story, it has to exist in order for the scenes to have light and in order for us to get the visual representation of the oxygen decreasing, but TILLY WHY DIDNT YOU PUT OUT THE FIRES TO SAVE OXYGEN
also a little disappointed that the whistling basically disappeared. the song that Ravah teaches Tilly should have been relayed thru whistle imo
to balance my complaints, heres a minor thing i enjoyed. i thought it was good writing that Ravah's gender is pretty much only mentioned once. Ravah is simply allowed to exist as a nonbinary person, and our heroes just tacitly understood that. I think theres only one line where a gendered term is required, so theres only one time that needs a singular "they." it just goes to show that you can have a whole story without gendering your characters. for a little while ive been going over one of my old writing projects and just removing gender from it, as a practice exercise to better understand why i gender characters the way i do. and Ravah is an example of my conclusions thus far in my exercise. You dont really need to gender characters at all. it can just not come up, ever.
A huge and sometimes challenging part of being a good friend or partner is allowing someone to change and being supportive. Stamets doesnt have to "get" it. he just has to care and be present. at no point in time do either of them get selfish and need the other to not change to get the stability one would, fairly, want during this crazy ride.
The foil here for burnham and booker is obvious but watching stamets change for two seasons and then culber doing the same has been very well done
Burnham… When someone asks if you are a god, you say YES!
Exactly what I thought lol.
Who ya gonna call?
I also like that in this ep Rayner is clearly integrating what he's learned into who he already is--he was a captain who surrounded himself with competent ppl who trusted his command and whom he could trust with his orders. he is having to learn how to speak encouragingly and inclusively, but he is also someone who would never have recommended adira for a job he was not confident they were competent at, which he pretty much directly tells them.
I'd think Burnham would only appear as guest instructor in Star Trek Academy. To bad, I would love to see Denobulan again. This is the second time that Detmer and Owosekun are absent, I hope they'll appear in the next episode.
Now that you mentioned "Future Guy" again, in all honesty I keep wishing for a show about the Temporal Wars.
P.S.
The 32nd century archeologists will be angry with Kovich for vandalizing an ancient artifact.
I was actually very surprised with this episode. I read the plot summary before it played and was immediately reminded of every Star Trek episode where a crew member breaks a rule or does something to offend someone, or accidentally committs a crime and was expecting the same thing for Tilly. But then it just wasn't happening for so long. When it came time for the race, I then thought it would just be Tilly's asthma that kills her. But either she never had that and I'm insane, or it just didn't happen. So then i surely thought her sharing her water with Rava would be what does her in. She'll be tried for it. Nope. She's fine. And then they hit us with the sacrifice play, and I was happy. They didn't do yet another episode of a cultural misunderstanding, but instead an episode where a main character misunderstood something. Which sounds similar conceptually, but this episode proves it's a very different, and very refreshing, thing. Especially for Star Trek.
You're not misremembering-the reason Cadet Tilly had her own quarters before Burnham joined the ship was because she had severe allegeries or asthma and chronically snored as she was result.
But asthma is also something you can outgrow as your lungs develop-I had an inhaler all through childhood, and I only stopped carrying one around when I went off to college.
It's also possible to have one form of asthma (allergy-induced) and not another (exercise-induced)
@@GrimYarrow Are they usually separate, or can they both happen simultaneously? That is, can someone have both types?
@@DarthTingleBinks A person can have multiple types simultaneously. When I was a child, I had both exercise-induced and nocturnal asthma. I've outgrown the nocturnal asthma but still have the exercise-induced kind. I also know people who have both exercise and allergy-induced asthma.
I don't know the stats on how likely a person is to have more than one type of asthma though, just that it's possible.
Follow the yellow moss road.
I really enjoyed this episode. I love how much respect was shown for this culture, and how well the episode developed this culture and these people. That's something I miss in most modern Star Trek, cultures and people we will only meet this one time being at the center of the story.
Odd thing Culber doesn't feel like Stamets could get it. It seems to me that Stamets' spore tripping was *very* spiritual and he treated it as such.
Thank you for leaving in the take where you said Burnham was "from the future" and corrected yourself, good learning moment for us!
It would really be fascinating to see the Discovery characters in Starfleet Academy!
Though I'm always very careful to evaluate what media is feeding me, I've been incredibly impressed by the emotional maturity, breadth of humanity, and various themes that have been displayed and explored by Discovery. I agree that the series is ending too short...
And YET.
There's frequently a lot talk among fans, about WANTING that advanced sort of society. The 'Star Trek Future'. The kind of society that I think Einstein would view as being humanity finally entering adulthood, rather than being mired in a bigoted and needlessly competitive adolescence....
What many fans then trip up on, is how do we GET to a Star Trek future, from here?
If Starfleet Academy centers lessons and themes that show what exactly a Star Trek society would teach their young, so that they CAN operate in that better level of compassionate, curious, self-aware, and brave type of human interaction -- both amongst themselves, and with alien species -- then Starfleet Academy could really prove pioneering to answering that long posed question: _"How do we get to a Star Trek future from here?"_
Usually, I would hear a proposed narrative like that, and KNOW that the company producing it is going to fuck it up/co-opt the hell out of it on behalf of capitalism and corporate interests, maintaining the status quo, etc....
But if the same people involved with making Discovery are involved? .....I think they just might have the sensitivity and the range! 😳😨🤯
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HEEELLLPP ME, JESSIE!!! I'M AFRAID TO HOPE!!! 😭😭😱🥰🤩😭😭
I'd kind of hoped they'd fix all five of the weather towers, or at the very least mentioned fixing all of them in the process of teaching the people to maintain them.
And yeah, I think Kovich having an original legal pad would have to involve some kind of time travel, because paper degrades. (Or some kind of stasis that was invented at a time these were still being made....)
I do like the fact that Burnham explained to Raveh's father about how the tower is a machine, and it needs occasional maintenance. Made me wonder about whether the Federation might make a commitment to keep an eye on that planet -- maybe even fix the other weather towers? Either that or condemn the people on that planet to eventual extinction once the last weather tower finally fails for good...
This is a fantastic Prime Directive episode. The stakes are the survival of a people... either they get some help from the Federation to fix their failing weather tower(s), or they go extinct in another generation or two. (Or they change/evolve... but so, so many of them will die in the process. Like what happened on that planet (Ghosts of Illyria) in the first season of Strange New Worlds....)
Kovich is an alias of time travelling horror movie director David Cronenberg, played by David Cronenberg. The legal pad is his legal pad. Like Deadpool, he knows he's in fiction.
Great in-depth review - I was initially wondering about breaking the prime directive the way they did made sense, but it was a good point it had already been broken so it's quite a unique circumstance. I really liked the personal connection that came out with Culber.
When Paul and Hugh were talking I was really hoping for a Faith of the Heart drop 🤣
Prediction: Moll and L'ak, having gone to Betazed when Discovery went to Trill, have already got their hands on the final clue(which may or may not be the Sacred Chalice of Rixx). This would be why Betazed was even mentioned earlier, when it wasn't the most intuitive solution to the riddle.
Speaking of the Prime Directive, might it be possible that in an earlier draft the gods of Halem’no were 800 year old memories of the Denobulans? Which would mean that first contact had already happened(letting Burnham off the hook), but been mostly forgotten and then mythologised. Shades of Ringworld. I can see that being removed for being too unambiguous about the nature of gods.
This was an incredibly well balanced look at religion that didn't come down either way, without feeling like a copout. It did feel like bits had been trimmed out, though. The significance of the whistlespeak itself, the utility of Burnham passing out from the dust-clearing vibrations, Culber's arrival on the planet(not a plothole, since it was mentioned that they could transport now, but it felt weird that it wasn't shown), and any suggestion of restoring the four failed towers, were tangibly missing.
Actually it now feels a little odd that Culber's story, which mirrored the A plot so well, didn't include a moment of him discussing the nuances of faith with the priest. Maybe "None of this means that your gods aren't there" is a line that would have fit better in his mouth.
Oh and the way the truth of the race and sacrifice was unwound in front of us? Fantastic. It was on a knife's edge right up until the room started to seal whether the sacrifice was literal or metaphorical. Every hint was ambiguous: Ovahz doesn't want Ravah running the race? That could be because it's arduous and he doesn't think they're ready to go through it, or because he doesn't want to risk their life. The older lady reminisces that her friend won once, and she wonders what she would have looked like as an elder? Well, we saw _her_ nearly die from the conditions of the planet, maybe that's what killed Vohrali and the fact that she won the race when she was young is unrelated. She's emphatic about telling Burnham that she doesn't _have_ to run to prove her faith? Well, again, that could just be because it's an arduous trek, or it could be because she's still got so much life to live and it's sad to see her sacrifice it so young. Ovahz tells Ravah to drink, that they can't win with an empty bowl, encourages them to quit? Supportive dad saying that it's okay to not win, or desperate father clutching at straws to keep his child alive.
Great episode. Loved it.
I see the Discovery haters hit the comment section hard smh. Anyway, I really enjoyed this episode. I like this episode's exploration of religion and the prime directive more than what New Eden did. I loved seeing Burnham get to flex her xenoanthropology education, and I've been enjoying the spiritual awakening that Culber is experiencing.
Your phone went off when talking about Future Guy, because it was Future Guy contacting you nit to reveal his identity.😁
I just started watching your channel. Excellent review! You have such great insights that I never would have thought about. Keep up the outstanding job!
This episode gave me so much feels and I particularly love Rayner and Adira’s scenes!!!
24:49 i think learning it wasn’t gods but people that brought them rain is really cool…
I really appreciated that Burnham didn’t think of the race as her sole burden but was willing to deviate from the main objective and let Tilly take point.
The one annoying plot thread was having Burnham begging the dad to tell her where the off switch was when she had that eye scanner she could’ve used.
You are absolutely right. Burnham's retinal tricorder could locate an ancient computer console hidden in a forest when the plot needed her to move the story along, but once that story reaches its climax, Burnham can't find a door-opening handle hidden under a carpet. Add to this, the fact that the deadly vacuum chamber Tilley and Ravah are trapped in is made from Tritanium which is apparently a rock to the transporter's scissors. So the writers have created zero tension for Burnham's oh so clever use of the song that Ravah's mother used to sing to them, in order to convince their father to open the door. Contrived nonsense as usual. And look at last week's episode, not once but twice did Burnham and Book state that all the ISS Enterprise's shuttles and escape pods were gone, requiring them to fly the ship through the wormhole in order to escape.So how did Moll and L'ak escape? Typical nu-trek writing, insulting our intelligence.
Fav. episode of the season so far, but didn't like that they recycled the tired old "human sacrifices to the gods" aspect to the native folks of the planet, felt like they could have done something more creative there. Was also hoping that when Michael talked about their "three distinct gender identities" it wouldn't just default to "he/him, she/her and they/them" folks but rather something, y'know, different.
Still, the episode was solid and the overall message was good and it's always fun to see the Prime Directive get kicked a bit.
Numerous media other than Star Trek have also been and continue to be guilty of this, but it always kills me when the translation to English of a song/poem from a different language has rhyme and meter in English.
My guess was the challenge for this episode is about respecting the Prime Directive. I was wrong. But putting in the message about the ethics of the technology and what happens if you’re not careful makes so much sense. love that this season is letting Michael be an anthropologist. With the way this series starts, that feels forgotten about after she becomes a mutineer. I really like how this seaosn seems to be mixing science and spirituality. That one of the themes this season is that science and religion are not mutually exclusive. And it's also not demeaning one and promoting the other. And that wasn’t just with Culver this week but also the pre-warp species on the planet.
Sorry for so many posts but have you seen Be Right Back of Black Mirror? Also did you feel a slight tinge of worry that this therapeutic problem could cause a Barclay style holo addiction?
*Jessie, I'm missing something in the Culber, Stametz storyline this season... HELP!*
Culber shared a consciousness, and it seems to have expanded his life experience. AND, he can't talk to Paul about it... Thinking Paul won't understand.
That makes absolutely no sense to me.
In Season 1 Paul Stametz joined with the mycelium Network spanning the galaxy allowing instantaneous travel while almost killing him initially.
They are in a happy loving relationship. (Yea, a normal gay couple on television!) Since they both had mind bending Galaxy-wide experiences, how could they possibly NOT be able to talk about it to each other about it?
What am I missing in this storyline this season? Please make it make sense!
I had the exact same reaction to the Academy line. I am here for it!
Imagine if Shaw had a Burnham to draw him out of his head and be supportive of him.
I‘ve been starting to watch The Orville last week since many of the cast members come to Fedcon and I was watching the episode Mad Idolitry yesterday and I had major flashbacks when I was watching Whistlespeak just now. Both episodes are dealing with a Non-Warp Society (yes, i‘m using that now too) and the exposure of a young civilization and the influence of space-faring civilizations on them (which is sort of irony as the Federation are themselves influencing those civilizations as the Progenitors did that millennia before). But in the beginning of the Orville episode Kelly had an unfortunate encounter with a child and this sort of becomes something like a religious point in their society. Then the planet disappears and suddenly reappears again but the society has progressed 700 years. In the next cycle, the planet has become sort-of like in the Middle Ages and the religion around Kelly has turned into something of a thing of power and belief. And at some point Kelly tries to convince the religious leader that she is not god but everything that she was using was just technology. When she believed, that this could be helpful for the damage she has caused, that leader got killed by someone whomstill wanted to keep the power over others. Then, two cycles later, this society has become a much further developed civilization then the Union and they were saying that the change towards science and technology eventually came from itself rather than from somewhere else. And I feel this had a much more resonating effect not just on the idea of influence of science vs religion on a society and onto one-self. It was an ok episode for me, but I kinda liked the Mad Idolatry approach better tbh
I've seen some of the outrage merchants on RUclips say this ripped off a Voyager episode. I won't watch those videos on principle, but if I'm right about what VOY episode they're saying DIS ripped off... I'm gonna say it, DIS did that plot better. Literally the only noteworthy thing about the Voyager episode (I'm on my phone and blanking on the episode's name) was George Costanza's mother was one of the guest stars.
@Jessie:
I appreciate your openness and insights in this particular review. As a casual viewer of your channel, this is the first time I've been motivated to subscribe.
Many of your observations about the people on the planet are right on. It's refreshing you found these compelling where other reviewers find these to be problematic, which reveals their ethnocentricity. That said, you use the term indigenous for the people and we don't know enough about them to tell. They are still "settled" people so that implies they are not necessarily (are they indigenous? not necessarily, we don't know enough to tell), but they do have their own practices, however: we have a lot of evidence related to sound healing and other sensory healing techniques (brushing, etc.) that are beneficial.
re: religion as collective action, connection, social transformation -- it's really what religions are supposed to be. It is central to the one I practice, with an emphasis on the equality of science and religion, service to others, elimination of prejudices of all sorts, never othering anyone and focusing on social transformation. So even the dialogue around service to others resonates. Also the principle of unity in diversity, where there are so many ways to know...and be.
And this bring into question the subtle dynamics in the prime directive which was previously a hammer and has grown into a guiding perspective, but still exists as a rule.
Because modern film and storytelling ignores the growth and development of human social interactions, not understanding how we would have enough conflict for storytelling if we weren't at odds, I find speculative fiction ironically focuses on electronic and scientific technologies (to the point that we define technology that narrowly) and ignores other technologies, like the affect of soundwaves on lung dust or the affect of love as a power for growing social connection (versus limitations to the realm of specific relationships). There wasn't space or sophistication to do this well in this episode, but there was a bold attempt, so I appreciated it. I'm sure this was much influenced by SMG.
re; contaminating or infecting societies: far west Asian folks literally killed off many folks through the introduction of pathogens. And honestly any formerly isolated group moving towards another isolated group can do the same.
you had a lot of great observations. too bad I've gotta get back to work
when Burnham was talking to Ohvahz about how the rain will come whether or not Ravah dies, my brain started playing Losing My Religion by REM at full blast
This episode, as well as episodes of SNW, did an excellent job of exaiming the pros and cons of the prime directive. I'm all for the academy series being a continuation of Discovery. I just hope that they'll go with the ensemble cast format instead of focousing on just one character the majority of the time.
my guess is he has some tie with those scientists, like when we get to the final clue we learn it is him who has it testing to see if the crew can learn the lesson
This was a damn great ep of Prime Direct combined with science and spiritual. and fucking Tilly tripped balls again. One of my instant fave Trek eps.
9:50 Who knew making a movie would be that much work...
Jsssie's uniform. Picard on Veridian III facing Soran.
I realy feel like discovery is hitting its stride this season. Hopefully they take this energy into Acadamy.
Captain Archer being Future Guy is just dopey.
I was a little confused about the purpose of Burnham passing out while they were curing the woman from the sand. It happened and they never went back to it. People don't just pass out
Raava's father comments after Burnham wakes up that the Halemnite method of using sound to help someone clear their lungs of dust is intensive and first time experiences can be extra-hard on people. I personally took it as that Starfleet sonic disruptors (the device Burnham & Tilly wanted to use on the old woman to help clear her lungs) were a more refined version of what the Halemnites did and that Burnham got whammied by the sound the bowls made.
As for why Tilly didn't drop like a rock as well... I can't say. Maybe she has a greater tolerance to sonic cleaning due to her asthma requiring frequent use of such treatments in the past?
interestingly, for as often as we see the prime directive violated, I am struggling to think of a single person who has been thrown out of starfleet (or even suffered consequences that affected them in future episodes) for doing so
Since it was filmed before it was canceled, I can't agree on the Academy idea. But overall a great review. Very insightful.
I don't think Kovich is Future Guy, but I think he's involved in the Temporal Cold War somehow.
I suppose a ..."Warpless" civilization doesn't quie sound right either.
Overall I loved this episode. Honestly I just have one major gripe with it, and it is something that would go over most people's heads and that is the fact that this particular clue comes from a Denobulan. See one of the few things we do know about Denobulan culture is that they are huge proponents of what would eventually be known as the prime directive. They believe that interfering in the natural evolution of a species is wrong. This all comes from Dear Doctor (ENT) when Phlox objects to giving a cure to the Valakians as that would impact Survival of the Fittest and the fact that without that cure the Menk might rise to be more dominant than the Valakians. It was an interesting look at the policy of non-interference. So if Denobulans are so against helping a society in a way that would impact the natural evolution of a species/culture, why would Doctor Kreel create weather towers on Halem'no that change the entire ecosystem of the planet to aid a pre-warp civilization to survive.
If Doctor Kreel had been any other species other than Denobulan, this would not have been a problem, but it is literally one of the few things we know about the Denobulan culture that they don't agree with doing things like this, so why would Doctor Kreel do it? Perhaps if we had gotten some sort of note that Kreel was a rebel against the idea of non-interference or that Denobulan culture had shifted by the 24th century it would be fine, but that would have been awkward to include, so... why do it, just pick another species to have Doctor Kreel be.
Kovitch mentions having to get used to the room, which is what prompted Burnham to say that in the first place, I don't think they actually meant he was born there. Also Shouldn't they have full time travel tech by then? I think he could just time travel if he wanted to because Daniels is from the same time period whereas Future Man is from the 28th century. I do think you're really close though and that he IS a temporal agent of some kind.
You know, Jessie, I have to admit. I've always had mixed feelings about Discovery. I didn't hate it, but I couldn't say I loved it as much as you do. Except for Season 3. That was excellent. But this latest season is so, SO good! Captain Burnham has joined Sisko, Picard and Janeway as one of my favourites. This is the version of her I've been wanting since season 1. The treasure hunting aspect is fantastic. I love that they drew on a piece of established lore instead of inventing some new all-powerful species. (It makes the universe feel like it has consequences. The events of one series can influence another). This season makes me wish that we were getting a season 6.
By contrast, I'm kind of glad they didn't do Star Trek Legacy. I suspect that would have involved way too much pandering. And Strange New Worlds really needs to right the ship after Season 2
15:11 I would like to what the other way for civilization can evolve with an example!
Slight push back on Rainer and I know my view is unpopular. The show has written him exactly as interpreted in your review, so I do not disagree. But, with a real-life Rainer person, I'd ask if we're sure he hasn't known how to be compassionate, a listener, and delegate during his prior decades in command and in the service.
Often, when many men feel disrespected or belittled, they'll act in ways very similar to how Rainer acted-a jerk, sarcastic, exhibiting traits of toxic masculinity. Burnham was right that he wasn't helping himself. An upset 63-year-old man (going by the actor's age) with a great deal of pride backed up by experience and expertise will often exhibit really negative traits if feeling disrespected (doesn't make it OK).
A positive and respectful work environment can help break a man who feels disrespected out of his shell. In my interpretation of this story, I give Burnham credit for establishing a work environment where Rainer and others feel respected. But I'd push back on the notion that Burnham has taught him how to be kind and compassionate when they have not known one another all that long. People who have a hard shell can have soft hearts.
Daniels actually said Future Guy is from the 28th century
I've never quite agreed with that interpretation. My interpretation is that it's about putting off contact with civilisations until you have no choice but to have contact with them.
Once somebody's in space, you basically _have_ to make sure they don't go ruining the neighbourhood.
I know how it's typically couched makes it sound very paternalistic, but I don't think it's as paternalistic as the alternative would be.
I feel like the root problem with the prime directive is that any society gets the technology when they're ready to use it responsibly, and that seems to have never happened.
I think the prime directive is long gone due to the fact that technology has been sustaining them for so long.
I'm so glad you brought up "New Eden" from Disco S2, which is my favorite Disco episode to date. This one is probably my second favorite, and they do have similar themes. FYI, the title of the episode is "Whistlespeak", not "Whistlespeakers".
I am loving this season! ❤
and since they are going to teach how to fix the tower, i wonder if that knowledge will be used to fix the broken towers
One comment about modern, western, medicine: nowadays we consider perfectly ok to do yoga and acumpunture. Sometimes physicians do prescribe those to their patients. We do learn from other cultures too.
Yes Kovich as future guy❤❤❤
This one reminded me a lot of Terra Nova, not just for being an away mission episode but I feel it touhed on a lot of the same themes and plot beats. I really enjoyed it as well
I often wonder, while the Federation does not interfere with less technologically advanced civilizations, do the other species like the Romulans, Klingon or Ferengi have the same policy?
I mean, the Romulans and Klingons are colonizers and the Ferenhi are capitalists and hence would absolutely interfere for profit. So yeah, most likely.
20:39 the race is like the Haj
Post-episode, pre-review thoughts first: liked this episode *but* it highlights an issue I've had with the overarching story, that the "clues" are pretty terrible. They are very much MacGuffins with no real meaning, they're almost an afterthought for the story at this point, just an "oh yeah, we've gotta explain why we're going to such and such place" and they have little to do with what actually happens in the episode the come from or lead to, that just happens to be where they are involved. Much as I think they've been pretty good about how the overarching plot's rolled out (still hate the stakes), I wish the clues were something more integral, about learning a lesson or something, not just something immaterial.
While it is far from my favourite (even of this season), this did feel like the most classic, standard "Star Trek episode", sad they haven't done more of these old-fashioned away team episodes in Disco or other newer Treks (SNW doing it a bit better than the others). This episode definitely solidified for me a feeling that this show never wants to go very far with some side characters (Detmer, Owosekun, etc.) and instead prefers to focus on a specific few, even if they write them off (I was not expecting Tilly to stay around all season, the post-Discovery Saru stuff, etc.). Still, it means a decent episode for Culber (Wilson Cruz continues to do an excellent job), Stamets doing more than just exposition-of-the-week (but not a lot more, still don't like him nor see any chemistry in that couple), and continued heartwarming bonding between Culber & Book - who may now be best friends? (with more chemistry than Culber/Stamets) - but in general, a neat exploration of Culber's feelings. It also gave us a pretty good Tilly episode, and gave us neat ideas for a culture (even if the whistlespeak ends up being little more than neat lore, not actually that important to the episode), with a nice moment of Burnham assuring that knowledge of aliens (and the related stuff) doesn't invalidate religion or faith, though it means some things should change (after seeing the Doctor Who episode where he has a screed against faith, it was nice to see a show go "faith isn't bad, just be careful what you do in its name"). I think the Adira bit fell flat again, just didn't seem to be well written, even if it was nice to see Rayner being a positive influence.
Well, now I've caught up on these reviews, I can get back to watching the show.
This episode was so amazing!!
Its a shame the away crew doesn't get a chance for a little hanky-panky with the natives anymore like in TOS. I kept thinking of Kirk dressed in an Indian costume believing he was one of them. So much to love in this episode.
I took a very different message from the healing scene-the well-meaning interference from the Dunobulans inadvertently led to religious zealotry. They are developing technology, like the prayer bowl dust expulsion, but are held back by the belief that they have to perform sacrifices to the gods to stay alive. If not for the interference, it’s probable that this society would have developed its own technological means of bringing the rain.
How did one denobulan scientist breaking the prime directive manage to install 5 gigantic weather control towers? Did he really do it alone?
I feel the big difference is spirituality vs. organized Religion - the latter one being a constant source of pain, at least when coming from a queer perspective. It's also the message of the story for me - you don't need the rituals and dogmas to keep up the spirit.
That said I'm a bit nervous that the deep neural scan of Hugh may mean he'll suffer something massive, requiring him to be regenerated with that neural data. Worst case, we'll have a regenerated spirit in a regenerated body. That would be a lot to take...
Temptation for the temptation god!
I think the biggest confusion I have with this episode is that installing five weather control towers on a planet is quite a task. Since you really wouldn't want to delete the records about these towers if they needed to be maintained regularly, why didn't the Federation have records on the planet and what was going on with it? Does this suggest that the Denobulans weren't subject to the Prime Directive, and didn't have open relations with the Federation during the TNG era?
This religious concept introduced in this episode is a mind-blowing clear representation of our time on earth
Why would the universal translator express their conversation as rhyming in English?
This season seems like a snipe hurt. But I'm generally enjoying it.
You are fantastic. Love you and love your videos. LLAP 🖖
I hope more star trek shows come out. Strange New Worlds will be the only show left after Discovery ends.
There is Starfleet Academy and Section 31 as well.
what happend to Lieutenant Commander Keyla Detmer?
IIRC Detmer, Owosekun, and Nillson were on a different ship when Discovery left the base.
Detmer and Owosekun set off to fly the _ISS Enterprise_ back to Starfleet HQ last week. It's a bummer that they weren't on screen.
Crack comment. What is Kovich is actually Future Guy from Enterprise and the timeline the crew of Discovery are in is the one where he emerged victorious in the time war and finally decided to retire and settle in the 32nd Century?
Is Culber gonna leave Stamets for book? I feel like they're being shipped.