Tchaikovsky: Manfred Symphony - Jaap van Zweden - Live concert HD
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- Tsjaikovski's 'Manfred Symfonie' door het Rotterdams Philharmonisch Orkest o.l.v. Jaap van Zweden.
De basis voor Tsjaikovski’s 'Manfred Symfonie' ligt bij een gedicht van Lord Byron. De hoofdpersoon worstelt met zichzelf, gekweld door een verboden liefde. In de rustieke Alpen probeert hij rust en antwoorden te vinden. Ook Tsjaikovski vond inspiratie voor dit werk in de Alpen. Zijn Manfred symfonie, weinig uitgevoerd maar een favoriet van Jaap van Zweden, zit vol uitersten. Tussen dramatiek en verstilling. Tussen de sprookjesachtige natuur en de mens met al zijn zondes. Tussen wanhoop en, uiteindelijk, hoop.
Opgenomen: AVROTROS Vrijdagconcert, 5 maart 2016 in TivoliVredenburg te Utrecht.
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Kijk voor meer AVROTROS Vrijdagconcert, een concertreeks van NPO Radio 4, op www.radio4.nl/avrotrosvrijdagc....
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Thi s work is truly monumental and deserves to be more widely known.
finally a video where we don't have to kill several minutes waiting for them to sit down and get the audience settled
The tragedies of the Byronian hero oozes through each and every note of this great work of Tchaikovsky. What a majectic piece of work! And what a great performance!
0:00 - I. Lento lugubre
15:06 - II. Vivace con spirito
24:43 - III. Andante con moto
35:46 - IV. Allegro con fuoco
[51:39 - Applause]
Maybe today's best conductor of this symphony - which is vastly underperformed. Such a great masterpiece! Zweden's conducting of the Chicago Symphony is amongst the most dazzling Tchaikovsky symphony performances since Mravinsky. Here, he is a more majestic but is still filled with the imaginative interpretation required to pull this symphony off.
It's not about being dazzled!
Please do'nt forget the Toscanini recording. 'Live'', and in my view, the finest of any.
Yes, indeed. My first experience of this masterpiece was Toscanini. I often wonder how many conductors of this huge masterwork actually know Byron's poem well-or at all? You can bet Tchaikovsky did.
Maybe not Mr Inman but surely you'll admit this a magnificent performance of a beautiful and underexposed piece.
But Toscanini's performance did a vast cut to the last mvt, much much undermining the total impression of the symphony. Overall, troo fast too hurried too uninterested at all.
Una de las más bellas y expresivas interpretaciones de esta bella obra de Tchaikovski, felicitaciones a toda la orquesta y a su intenso director.
Good performance until that disastrous finale! Come on, the final 2 minutes of this symphony contains some of the most magical music Tchaikovsky ever wrote, to omit this is a travesty!
Naturally, given my earlier comment I agree. The original ending with organ is Tchaikovsky greatest ending, yet the last movement is the most vandalised of all his works. Why I don't know; its incomprehensible to me. You may as well remove the chorus from Beethoven's Ninth and just play the first movement again.
There is no organ in the original. Tchaikovsky asks for harmonium.
@@QuotenwagnerianerIN THIS CASE EITHER WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER THAN NOTHING......
I was under the assumption that only Temirkanov subjected Pyotr Ilyich to such misery.
Exelente, magistral, sublime.me encanta.
Моя любимая композиция нашего Великого Чайковского...
I'm always glad to see this being performed
Got goose bumps during the ending.
A perfect upload. Many thanks.
Strange how it's assumed that a loud ending is preferred by audiences when the majority of people I have come across thus far have said otherwise. I would like to know more regarding the decision to cut the ending as I feel using 'loud' as a reason isn't justifiable. By that logic you could cut the last few minutes of Tchaikovsky's 6th.
Probably this is the best version I´ve ever seen
Essa obra me deixa sem palavras, só resta a emoção. Todos esses músicos são como anjos que desceram para nos trazer a beleza do Céu que se traduz na sua língua, a música erudita. BRAVO
This great piece is performed so infrequently in public that I applaud his even doing it, let alone gutting the organ ending. Listen to the Muti version for the organ and let's hope this effort inspires others to also program it.
it's no longer true that Manfred is played infrequently. At the BBC proms for instance its been one of the, if not The most performed symphony of all at that festival. All recent performances have been complete and did not change the ending. It's incomprehensible that Tchaikovsky's greatest ending should be vandalised like this.
Bravo!
Моя любимая симфония "Манфред". Не каждый человек ищет забвения,но герой Байрона это заслужил.Петр Ильич очень точно выразил в музыке его страдания.Самый великий композитор,на все времена!!!!!!
Another excellent recording!! Congratulations!!!
Una variedad instrumental ,dirigida magistralmente. Mis felicitaciones.
No puedo creer ni aceptar que halla 16 (dedos) cabezas de adoquín, que reprueban y no les gusta esta maravillosa obra de arte del gran Piort Illich Tchaikovsky, increible
On the 10:30 and on I can hear the theme which Tchaikovsky later would develope in his 5th symphony in the 2 movement. So so similar. Tchaikovsky sometimes make such reminiscences. I noted it also in the 5th. The reminiscence frase from the 4th symphony.
He has created lot of beautiful melodies ....so it was very difficul to continue in same level .....in his end life
Ben van Dijk👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻Unglaublich!!
impeccable
Ottima esecuzione e registrazione.Bravissimi tutti,
Sencillamente...ESTREMECEDOR y ESTREMECEDORA...La obra en sí misma...y la interpretación.- Dios mío! Qué angustia tan profunda...que mundo íntimo el de Tchaikovsky...No puede ser de otro modo para escribir algo como esta obra!
Geniales tus palabras. Yo tambien lo senti.
Estimado Amigo Berry: salud! Pero es que...Tchaikowsky une a su extraordinaria y natural inspiración melódica una fuerza y una capacidad de comunicación...hay momentos culminantes similares en su 6ta. Sinfonía (1er. movimiento), o en la 5ta...en ese 2do tema..), o en el Concierto para violín (Ier. Movimiento)...Dios mío! Cuánta angustia...qué torturas hay en el alma de Tchaikowsky!!!Siempre ese tema "trágico"en los siguientes movimientos re-aparece de nuevo fugazmente en medio de "dibujos melódicos" aparantemente "triunfales"...Lo hace en la "Manfred", pero también en la 6ta...y en la 5ta...
Sr. Languasco, en gran Arturo Toscanini afirmó (es historico) que para el, sin ninguna duda, la mejor obra de todas las del gran Tchaikovsky, fue MANFRED, sin desmedro de la nº 6 Patetica, otra gran obra de arte, Pero Manfred, como bién dice Ud., explora todos los rincones más intimos del alma humana, que solo Piort Ilich Tchaikovsky pudo describir en el pentagrama con tanto realismo y dolor, un iluminado de Dios.-
Un joyau et quelle merveilleuse interprètation
Thank you. The final impresses me. I never heard the final with the organ. Next Month i hear thuis symphonie in the Concertgebouw Amsterdam. I suppose with organ.
You won't since there is no organ in the original. It is harmonium. ;)
I definitely prefer the standard performance with the mighty organ in the finale.
But harmonium is the instrument that Tchaikovsky asks for. Not organ. That aside, you are correct. Altering the coda in this way is a travesty. But van Zweden is not the first one who did that. The first time I heard this symphony on record it also had that ending and I was mightily confused when I first heard the original version.
Standard ? Correct version I'd say....
@@Quotenwagnerianer It was Van Zweden's choice to perform it as thus, though.
@@bomcabedal So? It was clearly the wrong choice.
@@Quotenwagnerianer My point exactly.
And the extra I would like to mention besides the facte that Dutch Van Zweden is appointed by the New York Filharmonic, he is doing here great with one of Hollands best orchestra's. I learned this piece years ago on a Decca album with Lorin Maazel...
真是好聽的旋律!
Diesem Dirigent es fehlt Phantasie, Sensibilität. Alles wird dirigiert mit beiden Händen, alles ist gleich.
Hat die Führung des Orchester einen begabter Dirigent nicht gefunden ?
Schade um dieses Klangkörper !
BOO! HISS! Seriously, what was he thinking. Use two fewer cellists, hire the guy with the harmonium and play the thing as Tchaikovsky wrote it instead of tacking the end of the 1st mvt onto the finale. Sheesh.
Before I go mad by commenting on each individual talking about the ending with the organ, I'll just post this once.
There is no organ in the original. It is harmonium.
Still better with the organ than with neither, I'd say. And I can also imagine that a harmonium simply isn't loud enough.
I prefer the organ
First time I've ever heard it with this ending, and I like it. I never thought the final movement was weak or flawed as some critics have charged, but the sudden appearance of the organ/harmonium always seemed false to me, like a pious intrusion. Excellent performance, by the way.
🎶🎶 🧡 💚 💜 🎶🎶
Siamo certi che se l'autore fosse in grado di udire tale arte nell'esprimere la sua musica si rivolterebbe nella tomba per la felicità'
A great performance indeed. I can understand the change at the ending, maybe for the lack of the organ, but there's something that i don't understand, at 38:26 there is a piccolo trumpet playing along with the oboe. I've seen other performances and they do not show any piccolo trumpet in the whole symphony. Sounds good, but i ask myself, why the addition?
Two things- I despair at the way some conductors, such as this guy ( mercifully few, thank god) butcher the end of this symphony by substituting the great moving organ apotheosis ( with the basses playing the Dies Irae) with a return of the First movt coda. Why? It certainly wasn't sanctioned by Tchaikovsky ( See also Stravinsky's ridiculous " concert ending" for Petrushka, supplied by him at the request of a conductor who disliked the fact that the ballet ended with soft double bass pizzicati instead of a big bang. Thank christ no conductor worth his salt plays THAT ending any more).
If you want to hear how this great piece should end, go and listen to Vasily Petrenko and the Liverpool Phil or Chailly and the Concertgebouw or Simon Bolivar (all here on youtube). Because this Jaapy chaapy has chosen this "alternative' ending ( sanctioned by god- knows- who) I can't take him seriously. It's a shame because it's a great performance up till the end. Secondly, you're absolutely correct about the surprise trumpet doubling of the oboe line - there is absolutely no indication in the score for it- it is doubled at the lower octave by the clarinet. It sounds fine being doubled by a trumpet but it is not Tchaikovsky's orchestration, and..you know... his orchestration wasn't too bad....
I understand your point about people liking a big blow rather than a soft ending (like Don Juan from Strauss). I'm not so sure about the reason behind the ending of this performance, maybe there's no organ, or maybe you're right. There is a couple of moments in history where some composers were asked to make changes to their own music, like the time when Wagner was asked to perform the ride of the valkyries and some other pieces of his opera. He was mad at the idea because he wanted for his whole opera to be played. At the end, he agreed but still, didn't really like that. Anyway, it's sad to think that some people in the audience are hearing for the first time this symphony, with an alternative ending. I hope that in the program of the concert they were told about the ending.
There is an organ in this concert hall (de Doelen, Rotterdam).
Is it not true that the fourth movement ends with a recap of the first movement and then moves on to the organ finale? So it's not so much a substitution as an omission, which doesn't seem quite as egregious in my mind. I agree that deviating from the composer's original intentions is never good artistic practice, no matter how disagreeable the original may be by modern standards. That's why I didn't really like the Met's "artistically correct" production of Prince Igor a few years ago - sure, the opera in its original form is a mess of a piece composed by no less than three different people, but that's how I'm used to hearing it, and that's how it's been performed historically. But all that aside I do feel like ending before the organ finale here makes slightly more sense musically; the coda has always felt a little jarring when I listen. But it completely changes the mood by ending on a sombre tone.
No, that's not true. In the fourth movement we hear a variation on the theme from the first movement, leading up to the beautiful ending of the symfony, full of peace (instead of agitation).
Good performance, but the camera work is really really bad. The takes are claustrophobic and they become annoying to a surprising degree. I mean, who choose to zoom in the horn player's hands for so many seconds while the whole orchestra gives out its heart on the ff finale? I don't even dare to watch again to mention more examples. *But there are many-oh-so-many*.
Tá muito rápido não é assim primeiro movimento tem que ser Lento e Lugubre
It's so strange. I love the 4, 5 and 6ths symphonies and I can not really get to understand the beauty of this Manfred. What's wrong with me...? Will all my love and fast understanding of Tchaikovsky's music this time I feel like a deaf to it. Trying to listen to it 4 times already and can not "catch the tide" to get into the idea of this symphony..... Will try to listen to it 5 times more. Sometimes it helps...
Sugiero que trates en lo posible en encarnarte en el drama de Byrón, para así tratar de "sentir" y comprender esta obra de arte. Arturo Toscanini, dijo: posiblemente esta es la mejor sinfonía de Piotr Ilich. Cuándo lo logres, te daras cuenta lo maravillosa y estremecedora que es Manfred. El comentario, que hace el Sr. Hugo Fernández Languasco, muy cierto y acertado.-
Nothing wrong with you. Manfred is a flawed work without a doubt. It contains some of Tchaikovsky's most thrilling music but also so very banal passages. We will never know but my feeling is he might have revised this symphony had he lived longer.
Eugennia no hay nada equivocado en tu apreciacion de Manfred. Manfred es una obra muy desigual con momentos impresionantes pero tambien con momentos muy vulgares. Yo la clasificaria dentro del grupo de obras cuasi experimentales de Tchaikovsky. Creo que por este aspecto experimental (novedoso) es muy apreciada por los criticos. Considero que el primer movimiento es muy original en su estructura y armónicamente pero el material melodico no es muy bueno (salvo la impresionante coda). El segundo movimiento es una de las grandes creaciones de Tchaikovsky, uno de sus mejores scherzos y Tchaikovsky era un maestro del scherzo. El tercer movimiento es muy debil melodicamente, parece un Tchaikovsky de segunda categoria y el final es muy vulgar y ademas muy largo (hay algun momento puntual interesante). Si los movimientos 3 y 4 tuvieran la misma calidad que los movimientos 1 y 2 si que podría hablarse de obra maestra.
TRY ITS NOT REALLY A SYMPHONY BUT A 4 MOVEMENT SYMPHONIC FANTASY LIKE ROMEO AND JULIET,HAMLET OR FRANCESCA DA RIMINI......THE MOTIF HEARD IN ALL 4 MOVEMENTS UNITES THEM LIKE A SYMPHONY.....A LONGER MORE EPIC STORY TO TELL VIA MUSICAL MOVEMENTS.....
@@TheVaughan5 Considering that he considered it among his best orchestral works (along with Francesca da Rimini) and didn't revise it, I'd say that's unlikely. Not that I entirely disagree, mind you. I feel that the second movement somewhat diminishes the drama of the first, for instance. But I don't think Tchaikovsky would agree with us.
It's not the authorized score by Tchaikovsky !The finale is cut and the "con duolo" comes from the first movement. The romantic transfiguration with organ is lost.
Great performance but could have been better with the standard finale.
6:00
No organ?
The real coda of this symphony, with the deeply- moving organ apotheosis and then the quiet ending is the ending Tchaikovsky wrote. Shame of this conductor for joining the ranks of conductors who somehow think they have 'improved' this wonderful symphony by sticking on the end of the first movement. Even the great Svetlanov can be viewed on RUclips doing the same butchering job.
I think this is a tradition that was created in the Soviet Union to compensate for the lack of an organ or harmonium. I've seen Temirkanov do it and I think Gauk did, too. It helps that it creates a concise end to the symphony. Horrible solution, I fully agree.
@@bomcabedal Thanks for the explanation, Bom. I hadn't thought of that. It is no excuse though- every note of the organ chords is doubled by the wind and brass, though obviously it would have considerably less weight without the organ. And psychologically, to simply repeat the coda, note for note, of the first movement, which is thrilling AT THE END OF THE FIRST MOVEMENT, is groundhog day.
@@paulybarr Not arguing with you. If anything, the first movement's coda is too good, too monumental. That's why the segway to the second movement always seems to be a bit of an anticlimax. A lot of conductors take a few extra seconds in between just for that reason.
This seems very hurried to me, much like all the other performances I have found on You Tube. Very unsatisfying to listen to.
Michael Tilson Thomas' version on CBS gets slowly played. But alas, his version sort of lacks a wide dynamics as this one and R. Muti's EMI version show.
40:14 ♥ 42:58 ♥47:20♥
50:11
作曲家の国が大きく、多数の観客がいるので コントラストバスの数も多い。
The bowdlerised version with no organ at the end - the old Soviet version!
Tchaikovsky is not for amateurs. Incorrect version... organ missed... final changed...... Tchaikovsky does not need " Musical arrengements".
Please do not try to rewrite Tchaikovsky. The ending of the first movement is NOT the finale of this symphony. A great performance ruined because the conductor wanted a big bang at the end.
Es ist sehr schwierig, diese relativ lange Sinfonie ohne Langweile zu spielen. Diese live Aufführung ist leider nicht eine seltene Ausnahme davon.
Terrible decision to butcher the finale.
I get it. To be a maestro in the age of available music recordings is to play the 'kid DJ' - slow down the pace then speed it up, alternating with each passing second, like a kid playing 'a DJ' messing with the volume on the car radio... Now that's good conducting... geez... this is the worst performance of this symphony I've heard. Not that it is bad. It's just inferior to all others I've listened so far
a disaster, completely wrecks the work.
a disaster, because of the changed ending.
Sadly, I agree. One has to have a tremendous ego to change the original score and therefore the entire "Manfred"
story. I fear for the future of the NY Philharmonic under this conductor.
I HAVENT HEARD IT BUT I READ TOSCANINI MADE SEVERAL CUTS WHEN PERFORMING MANFRED.....AND BERNSTEIN SAID THE SCORE WAS TRASH...WOWWWWWWW
the conductor has completely butchered the last movement!! I guess Tchaikovsky should be grateful for such an alteration since it removed the dark morbid finale of the symphony where Manfred dies, and ended it on a more positive note!!! what a farce!!!
the poor symbol guy. Must be boring to practice. One step above taking triangle lessons.
Bravo!