Juan, I think you answered why a plane that is at the "halfway" point might have to carry more fuel to drop to a lower altitude and continue on, but I don't think you specifically answered why that would make an impact; does the crew have the ability to exchange the air in the cabin via another system than the compressed air inputs from the engines?
Thank You for all your excellent content! It takes a smart person to understand such a technical subject; and an even smarter person to explain it in a straightforward fashion...
I really like these little emergency event debriefings/case studies. As an airline pilot, it freshens my education on the situation being discussed and better prepares me in the event that I ever have to deal with something like this as a crew member up front. These are kind of like CBTs except they are much more entertaining and don't put me to sleep.
Love you, love your show. Heal quickly, heal well. Dirty little secret - I look at google maps a lot at work, and now every time I see a dam, I look for the spillway
Wow! Amazing video, so much useful information 👌. Thanks a lot Juan for taking the time to make all these valuable videos. Wishing you complete recovery.
Juan-fantastic explanation once again. Just plain fantastic. I have never heard a more clear and concise explanation ; and it boils down to the fact that you not only know electro-mechanically what makes these "things" fly but what to do when things go wrong. A master mechanic and a master pilot. You do the industry a great service.
Thanks Juan! Hope you get the opportunity to fly the 787. I was on a 787-10 Dreamliner in March (as a passenger; I’m not a pilot but follow aviation and aviation news stories) and was impressed!
Thanks for all the aviation updates Juan! Hope you are feeling well!! All the regulars here are always thinking about you and the family. Hope everyone is doing well!
That 787 will be like a new toy at Christmas Woo whooo Heck I could see the waves coming off your head when you were talking about it because your brain was so excited 😆
@@SteamCrane Unfortunately Juan has to pass his medical before he gets his ticket back and that includes flying the Luscombe. When the time comes I hope that will just be a formality. It raises a question as to whether Juan is able to keep up his simulator hours during this period. Juan?
This is the best stop in aviation news on YT, quality assessment of the news as it reported and quality information relating to the unreported, perfect balance to help those less technical to stay informed in all matters relating to aviation. I hope you get back in the sky real soon, thankyou for your efforts.
Another outstanding video JB...thanks. This episode was jam-packed with excellent details that you will never read about in the “In Flight” magazines. Your presentation skills are definitely improving with meaningful content for the average viewer to appreciate. Well done!
Can the air be cleared very quickly once down to 14,000 (or was it 10,000)? There's no "open the big vents" is there? Isn't it only a small precentage of "fresh air" that entered the front of each engine that actually comes into the cabin? Most of the cabin air is recirculated, right? Is both cabin air and cargo compartment air intermixed, or are they separate? Does the cabin and the cargo section each have its own outlet or overboard? If you have something smoking in the cargo hold, will that smoke be distributed to the cabin? At cruising altitude, very thin outside air might be -40 to -60 deg C, right? It is compressed by the compressor blades and stators of the engine and squeezed to high pressure and over +100 deg C, right? (Or was it about 100 psi and 400 C?) At that point, (before the fuel, smoke and fire is added) some of that hot, clean, dry air is ported off to the air conditioning system that works some magic in reducing the pressure and getting rid of most of the heat...adding the required pressure and hot or cold needed to keep the cabin comfy. But not good at completely turning over the cabin air volume very quickly, right? The main purpose of the compressor is to feed a high volume of high pressure air (and its large quantity of oxygen) to the combustors to mix with lots of jet fuel and make lots and lots of heat to drive the turbine which in turn drives the compressor and the big fan blades that move most of the air for thrust. The waste heat out of the turbine also produces high speed jet thrust, right? I've noticed on flights when descending, you can begin to smell the air mass over the city you are arriving at. If there is smoke from a brush fire, and your plane flies through it, you will smell a little of that smoke in the cabin. Or a lot of smoke smell if the smoke in the air is thick. Although, I don't think Capt. Juan would fly his plane through a column of smoke. :)
Andrew 13579 Most airliners (maybe all?) have the ability to bring in “ram air” from inlets in the fuselage as a backup source of ventilation in case the packs become inoperative or to help clear smoke. You need to get down to around 10,000’ to ensure enough oxygen content, and the ram air works best at higher speed. As the aircraft slows for landing, less air enters the ram inlets. To answer your main question, ram air with an open outflow valve can replace the cabin air, and hence clear smoke, fairly rapidly.
Great detailed explanation of Bleed Air Systems and Operation. I am a former 23 year C-130E & H Crew Chief and Phase Dock Troop. Flew as a DCC on our Units C-130H's during Desert Shield/Storm. 8 1/2 years prior to that a C-119C, G & L --- FE/FM.
Juan, I'm guessing I'm not the only one that hits the 'like' button first, thanks for all you do. On this one, as I was intently following and you said the oxygen generators are driven by a reaction between sodium chloride and iron.... and I started thinking, that would mean old iron hulls would be spontaneously combusting, no? so I looked it up, it's sodium perchlorate, which is a powerful oxidizer. thanks again!
HOPE EVERYTHING GOES WELL WITH YOUR HEALTH AND THAT YOU GET TO LEARN THE 787. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMATION ON THIS MISHAP AND THE FOOD FOR THOUGHT. A INTERESTING VIDEO WOULD BE THE FUTURE OF WHERE YOU SEE AVIATION GOING IN THE FUTURE. WHAT NEW INNOVATIONS A & P WISE, AND ANYTHING ELSE INTERESTING YOU SEE THAT WILL CHANGE AVIATION.
Actually the actual phraseology the PC used to Honolulu Tower was "I have fire in the cargo compartment I will be landing 4 right..." so it seems at that time flight crew fully believed they had a "cargo" (luggage) fire, not just untraceable smoke.
I know of whom you speak, and agree. Juan knows his audience. This video is a prime example of what we want and what he does best: a concise presentation of the event, analysis of possible causes, evaluation of the crew's actions, and identifying what future. developments to aware of. "I came for Oroville, but stayed for the the flying and accident coverage.". 100K subscribers will be an outstanding achievement!
Thanks, Juan! Could you comment on Incident: Smartwings B738 over Aegean Sea on Aug 22nd 2019, engine shut down in flight, aircraft continued to Prague?
That incident is pretty well covered on AvHerald: www.avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0 Basically, the crew failed in a couple of areas: > Flight crew failed to notify ATS at the soonest practicable opportunity; > Flight crew failed to divert to the nearest available airfield; > With one engine failed, the aircraft loses 1 of the 3 redundant hydraulic, electrical, and bleed air systems. If you lose one engine, the chances of losing the second engine are statistically higher, if you consider that the reason for loss of engine could be atmospheric, fuel related, foreign-object ingestion, or system failure. Any of those factors have the ability to disable the other engine, and possibly also the APU, rendering all 3 systems circuits inoperable. > ETOPS has nothing to do with this. The crew, and therefore the airline, breached aviation procedures, and have put necessary risk onto their passengers.
Exposure to contaminated air wrecked my nervous system and finished my aviation career very prematurely. If you look up the effects of burning jet oil it doesn't for make good reading. Thanks Juan for an in-dept report.
I believe that I only fully comprehend about 60%+ of the technical explanations BUT that does not diminish the great pleasure I get from ‘learning’ and sharing your totally fascinating vlogs; keep up the great work. Thank you! 👍🙏🏼
Really like all your explanations. I have a FIBULATER installed, hehe, so I really miss piloting an aircraft now. They said I had a heart attack 9 years ago but I didn't fell it. Felt like heart burn, Guess it really BURNED my HEART, hehe. The first one never fired in 7 years and this new one, I hope, never fires ether. I know how you fell not being able to get in the air by yourself and enjoy the wild big yonder. Keep up the good work I really enjoy it.
Thank you for mentioning Swissair. I worked on that aircraft, and DID do some electrical installations. Sorry to be so crude, but I was relieved, when I found out the fire was from "customer installed" systems! steve
Have you ever experienced something similar to Juan? As a passenger (or Pilot-Passenger) it can be pretty troubling as well which I experienced ago on Christmas Eve I was on a flight from ANC to PDX on a heavily loaded ageing B727 that departed in near white-out conditions, and a couple of mins after Air-Cycle packs started operating large amounts of smoke flooded out the overhead vents, and within a couple of mins the smoke was so thick it was difficult to see from my over-wing seat to the front of the cabin from the thick, acrid 'dirty sock' smelling smoke you described. Even though the pilots quickly shutdown the Cabin air system the thick smoke remained as we did a high-rate turn in IMC and heavy snow, the Captian said to assume 'Brace' positions as we landed with about 30kts of tailwind in near '0/0'conditions over max landing weight, at night and nearly over-ran the runway and had a brief brake fire reported by aircraft at the departure end where we stopped. The engines and all electrical were shut-down as we stopped and were told to remain seated and wait for the fire equipment, but for some reason, the crew did not open any cabin doors (Procedure in case of fire?) as we started suffering the effects of Smoke inhalation. I was sitting next to the Late Senator Ted Stevens who had been a military Pilot and we both demanded they evacuate the aircraft or at least open some doors but the crew refused. Having the Emergency exit Row I advised; "If action was not taken immediately to relieve the smoke situation I am pulling the window and will wait for the rescue on the wing!" Senator Stevens then exclaimed: "We're dying in here! Pull the goddamed window, we'll all join you!" At which point the two forward cabin doors were opened and with the 30kts of wind the cabin air became somewhat tolerable. As soon as the Rescue determined we were good to taxi we returned to a gate and were told to remain on board until the aircraft was repaired. Ted Stevens and me made our way forward to get off as the head F/A told us to return to our seats, Ted said: "Honey this GD Airplane ain't goin' anywhere, not with me on it anyway!" The Capt. hearing the exchange exited the cockpit and said someone left a rag in the cabin air intake and caught fire in one of the A/C packs and as soon as it was cleared out we would be departing. Ted said "You're full of Sh!t and we left the flight that was cancelled a couple of hours later. Ted and me guessed it was an oil seal rather than a rag. And something to think about is how in pressurized aircraft even if the source of the smoke is eliminated smoke can build quickly and not be eliminated before you become incapacitated. I had a minor electrical fire in a P210 Cessna caused by someone having wrapped tinfoil around a Hobbs meter fuse that had a chaffing wire. Turning off the master did not stop the burn because it was connected directly to the battery via a gear-up relay. so as soon as I put the gear up and the wire chaffed and grounded at cruise. as I recall turning the electrical master switch off left the Outflow valve functioning and I had to manually dump cabin pressure to open the little side window to get some fresh air but the smoke increased. As I manually extended the gear to get from altitude to a highway below as fast a possible the act of lowering the gear broke the Hobbs circuit and the smoke stopped and I chose instead to land as an airport a few miles away. Having worked in the Oil an Gas industry I've had some other experiences with smoke in confined areas and one time used a commercial 3M chemical respirator (Like you might get at a paint store) We carried to escape a heavy smoke situation caused by a toxic industrial Ni-Cad battery fire and found it quite effective, My eyes not being protected made it hard to see. After the 727 cabin fire and the Industrial Ni-Cad fire, as I was doing a lot of international airline flights at the time, I put a 3M respirator in my carry-on along with some swim goggles and in my Flying bag for private personal flights, and I think it's something to consider keeping in the cockpit, and cabin as they are light, inexpensive, come in a sealed bag and easily stowed or packed. On Offshore platforms, I kept one by my bedside and office.
thanks again JB for providing us armchair pilots with informative info. I always appreciate your videos that have gotten better and better...and dare I say, "entertaining" !...see you next time
It's not combined in the oxygen generator, so not 'combined' in a controlled manner if that's what you think. You know the medical oxygen masks known as a 'Simple face mask' used by EMT and hospitals? Well there's holes in the mask which enable you to inhale the ambient air. However, the saturated oxygen is also delivered to the mask, so you end up breathing both sources of air. Have a look at these yellow oxygen masks, and you'll see the 2 vents in the mask which allow air to be inhaled from the cabin. Picture: media.cntraveler.com/photos/596fb8455613850539d6349b/16:9/w_1400,c_limit/plane-oxygen-mask-cr-alamy-A6C99D.jpg It's not like a full-face rebreather, where you're only breathing the 100% oxygen with your own exhaled air to avoid inhaling gas or fumes. But I argue that any addition oxygen saturation would help your brain get the oxygen it needs in a smoky cabin. (I'm a Firefighter and a Commercial Pilot)
Judging by your excitement, I know that you will be happy to learn to fly a new aircraft, with new systems. Nothing like learning new things to keep one’s mind sharp. By the way, I was surprised to hear that your airline does not use the 787 to fly to London. BA and AC have been doing so from the YUL and YYZ for the last three years.
I spent the years 80 to 93 Testing, Troubleshooting, Limited Repairing (only 2 legged components), and Retesting the electronic controllers of PACK systems for 727, 737, 747 and L1011 aircraft at Hamilton Standard Div. UTC. It was a great job until they moved the manufacturing out of CT to the cheaper labor markets. The PACKs are very interesting systems but the new system that doesn't require Bleed Air sounds like the way to go. sdh in CT (BDL)
On an aircraft like the 787, just how "air-tight" is the cabin? That is, if the electric pressurization pump stopped, and the tail bleed valve closed, about how long would the cabin hold pressure altitude?
Depends on the cabin decay rate, your cabin differential pressure and the condition of all seals and sealing of the aircraft in question. There is a acceptable rate in the aircraft maintenance manual. This decay rate assumes 1 AC pack operating, or no AC pack operating, outflow valve closed, which in cruise , the valve should be nearly 100% closed depending on your cruise altitude This is my opinion and all aircraft are different. Normally I would say roughly about 2-3 minutes to get control of the cabin differential or descend to a altitude less than the automatic mask deployment threshold, or manual deployment. Aircraft are not airtight. You have to have a flow into the plane to replace used air and to pressurize.
As always a great informative video. I worked in the aviation industry years ago and it’s frustrating to see the inaccuracy of news programming. Even from their experts. Glad you’re on the mend and keep up the good work.
Juan, You are one great source of valuable knowledge. Thanks so much for sharing in terms the layperson can understand. We are praying that you get back in the air soon. Passengers could not have a better, more competent pilot.
Nice explanation. I hope you get your medical back ASAP. I retired Capt AB321 AA Nov 2018 after 30 yrs AA Eagle, USAir, and American. I miss the flying and $$ but not the BS lol
LOL keep your feet off the furniture... when I took my first airline flight 36 years ago I never thought anyone would have to be told to keep their feet off the seat in front of them.
...feet on the furniture- WHILE clipping toenails- one of the most disgusting things I have yet seen. Greyhound low price bus ticket rates on an airliner = Greyhound low class passengers on an airliner, IMHO.
orginally the 707 used turbo/compressor which were feed by bleed air as the engine manufactures were concerned with "dirty" bleed air. There were three turbo/compressors with number 4 engine not having one.
I like the idea of the system you talked about on the 787. I guess all were lucky it was just the seal and it didn't hurt the engine's performance. Something where smoke enters the cabin must be scary to all on board. Was on a 737-100 on Frontier Air in 1984 from Minot to Denver and at altitude it hit some air pocket and dropped about 1,000 feet. I thought I was a goner and when I saw the wings bend upward, I thought it again but the wings held on. The jet was grounded for checks and I don't know whatever happened regarding that. I can tell you though when things don't go right on a jet, people are scared to death. I got off track here but thanks again for explaining how this happened and how the systems work so I can understand... Now waiting for the next class of Juan's College of Aviation Knowledge 101.
Great information thank Juan. Boy it just seems like day after day after day there's aviation issues recently. The gears in my head start asking why and I suppose it's just the law of averages. I suppose. 🚩
Anyone else think about that old John Wayne movie, "Point of No Return" while Juan was giving an explanation for this Hawaiian flight. Great information, it answered some of my questions. Thanks for sharing another informative video. Stan
That would be a worst-case scenario for me. With asthma, breathing oil smoke is about the worst possible thing I could do. I'd probably be half dead by the time they landed! Wonder if they'd let me check a paint-style mask? 😂 That would probably trigger something at the TSA checkpoint ... 😁 Anyway, great info as always, Juan! Loved the detailed schematics and your explanation. Learning alot here!! 😎
Smitty Smithsonite believe me IKNOW,,& I had to work on so many oil burned with high SULPHUR oil, so I KNOW how bad it can be, & those days I was NOT YET DIAGNOSED,doing very well thanks to my MD, , LOTS OF MEDS, but NO SETBACKS, peak flows are good , , stay well bud , take care, and CHEERS FROM NJ
Smitty Smithsonite , I fly with a 3m mask, and do carry CPAP, ,,once CONTINENTAL, WANTED ME TO CHECK IT, so I told them how it goes,,it’s an RX, but you just don’t get them at any drugstore, +what it costs< OK, YOU KEEP IT !
@@flybyairplane3528 - Thanks Leighton! I work in the automotive and small engine repair industry, which is probably the worst place for me to be, but it pays the bills. I'm always breathing smoke, fumes, and rust dust up here in the Northeast. Had a great doc 20 years ago that got me off the fast acting albuterol inhalers and on to something that works on the root of the problem. Been great ever since, relatively speaking. Attacks are now few and far between. Thanks for the kind words, and CHEERS back at ya from MA. 👍🍻
Another great video. Air quality and the lack of oil separators has always bothered me. BA pilot Richard Westgate was 43 when he died from aero toxicity .
Thanks again for the great technical explanation on this event. As much as I enjoy them, I would rather you be talking about Oroville dam or something. That would mean all is well in the sky.
Thanks Juan.. This information makes for me and I think others more informed and safer. Love the terms especially the "Jungle". Now if it happens I have an idea of whats going on. I am familiar with those types of smells. Oil vs. electrical vs. products of combustion. Good luck on the new Type Ratting.
Juan, I think you answered why a plane that is at the "halfway" point might have to carry more fuel to drop to a lower altitude and continue on, but I don't think you specifically answered why that would make an impact; does the crew have the ability to exchange the air in the cabin via another system than the compressed air inputs from the engines?
Good point! - At 10,000' you can completely depressurize the aircraft, turn off the Pacs, and ventilate the cabin with fresh 'ram' air.
@@blancolirio Thank you for clarifying that! I suspected as much, but I didn't want to assume.
idpromnut : That was a great question !!!!
Why don't they just open the windows? 🤔
@@desertdenizen6428 It would mess up older womens hair dos.
Thank You for all your excellent content!
It takes a smart person to understand such a technical subject; and an even smarter person to explain it in a straightforward fashion...
I really like these little emergency event debriefings/case studies. As an airline pilot, it freshens my education on the situation being discussed and better prepares me in the event that I ever have to deal with something like this as a crew member up front. These are kind of like CBTs except they are much more entertaining and don't put me to sleep.
Thanks Aaron!!
This definitely is helping me to 'keep in the books' while I'm away from the line.
Juan should go on to teach the new pilots, after his airline days are over!
My man Juan Brown on top of the news
A very comprehensive report! Very enlightening. Thanks, Juan.
There's only Juan person I get my aviation news from.
@ATCkeepsUsafe Who are you referring to?
That comment makes no sense. Sounds like an unhappy troll.
Juan and only.
Great comment. Juan is the Juan
You are now cleared to land on runway Juan Niner
Thanks for your reporting again Juan - busy as heck recently with so many aviation incidents!!
Love you, love your show. Heal quickly, heal well. Dirty little secret - I look at google maps a lot at work, and now every time I see a dam, I look for the spillway
Haa!
"The more you know..."
Wow! Amazing video, so much useful information 👌.
Thanks a lot Juan for taking the time to make all these valuable videos.
Wishing you complete recovery.
Great explanation. Never knew about the independent sys in the dreamliner.
Your knowledge and your ability to explain it is extremely impressive. Thank you for your service sir.
Damn Pilots: "Sodium Chloride and Iron"; *'Sodium Chlorate'* . OK, I confess a chemistry Nerd. Cheers, Mark
Juan-fantastic explanation once again. Just plain fantastic. I have never heard a more clear and concise explanation ; and it boils down to the fact that you not only know electro-mechanically what makes these "things" fly but what to do when things go wrong. A master mechanic and a master pilot. You do the industry a great service.
Thanks!
Thanks Juan! Hope you get the opportunity to fly the 787. I was on a 787-10 Dreamliner in March (as a passenger; I’m not a pilot but follow aviation and aviation news stories) and was impressed!
"I'll miss going to London."
My only flight (as a passenger) so far on a 787 was coming back from London Gatwick.
always an education. for someone not very aviatorish. thanks, always. take goid care mr browne.
Thanks once again for your expertise. Very informative
Best video I have watched all day..!
Great information, presentation and learning, Juan. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Juan excellent video thanks! Wishing you all the best with your medical situation!
Thanks for all the aviation updates Juan! Hope you are feeling well!! All the regulars here are always thinking about you and the family. Hope everyone is doing well!
Feeling better! Thanks Marty.
That 787 will be like a new toy at Christmas
Woo whooo
Heck I could see the waves coming off your
head when you were talking about it because your brain was so excited 😆
Nice report, Juan. You always clear up the smoke in the cabin.
Lol!
I thought regulations prohibit smoking in the cabin.
Juan.....you are so GOOD! This from another 40 year pilot!!!
Thanks Samuel!
Juan is chasing 100k subs!!!! I say to celebrate the occasion Juan have a contest for a Ride in the mighty Luscom!!! LOL
Shoooott! After the reports recently regarding the private planes that have gone down?
Scary!!!
@@catherinenelson4162 In this case, you'd have a pilot you can trust.
@@SteamCrane Unfortunately Juan has to pass his medical before he gets his ticket back and that includes flying the Luscombe. When the time comes I hope that will just be a formality.
It raises a question as to whether Juan is able to keep up his simulator hours during this period. Juan?
Great Info. Thanks Brother. Got a Laugh from The Rubber Jungle. Never heard it like that! Be Safe.
This is the best stop in aviation news on YT, quality assessment of the news as it reported and quality information relating to the unreported, perfect balance to help those less technical to stay informed in all matters relating to aviation. I hope you get back in the sky real soon, thankyou for your efforts.
Thanks Kevin!
Another outstanding video JB...thanks. This episode was jam-packed with excellent details that you will never read about in the “In Flight” magazines. Your presentation skills are definitely improving with meaningful content for the average viewer to appreciate. Well done!
Thanks Chuck!
Never before witnessed anyone ride through a faux pas so smoothly and with such panache!! GO JUAN!! 😂
Once again.
A little oil makes a whole lot of smoke when it is placed on something very hot.
Yep!
Can the air be cleared very quickly once down to 14,000 (or was it 10,000)? There's no "open the big vents" is there? Isn't it only a small precentage of "fresh air" that entered the front of each engine that actually comes into the cabin? Most of the cabin air is recirculated, right? Is both cabin air and cargo compartment air intermixed, or are they separate? Does the cabin and the cargo section each have its own outlet or overboard? If you have something smoking in the cargo hold, will that smoke be distributed to the cabin? At cruising altitude, very thin outside air might be -40 to -60 deg C, right? It is compressed by the compressor blades and stators of the engine and squeezed to high pressure and over +100 deg C, right? (Or was it about 100 psi and 400 C?) At that point, (before the fuel, smoke and fire is added) some of that hot, clean, dry air is ported off to the air conditioning system that works some magic in reducing the pressure and getting rid of most of the heat...adding the required pressure and hot or cold needed to keep the cabin comfy. But not good at completely turning over the cabin air volume very quickly, right? The main purpose of the compressor is to feed a high volume of high pressure air (and its large quantity of oxygen) to the combustors to mix with lots of jet fuel and make lots and lots of heat to drive the turbine which in turn drives the compressor and the big fan blades that move most of the air for thrust. The waste heat out of the turbine also produces high speed jet thrust, right? I've noticed on flights when descending, you can begin to smell the air mass over the city you are arriving at. If there is smoke from a brush fire, and your plane flies through it, you will smell a little of that smoke in the cabin. Or a lot of smoke smell if the smoke in the air is thick. Although, I don't think Capt. Juan would fly his plane through a column of smoke. :)
I'm just an automotive tech, but I can attest to this fact.
@@Kreemerz Oil will burn inside the engine, but it requires very high temperatures, beyond those found in the compressor and air conditioning.
Andrew 13579 Most airliners (maybe all?) have the ability to bring in “ram air” from inlets in the fuselage as a backup source of ventilation in case the packs become inoperative or to help clear smoke. You need to get down to around 10,000’ to ensure enough oxygen content, and the ram air works best at higher speed. As the aircraft slows for landing, less air enters the ram inlets. To answer your main question, ram air with an open outflow valve can replace the cabin air, and hence clear smoke, fairly rapidly.
Thank you Juan! A very informative video from a professional pilot!!!
Great detailed explanation of Bleed Air Systems and Operation. I am a former 23 year C-130E & H Crew Chief and Phase Dock Troop. Flew as a DCC on our Units C-130H's during Desert Shield/Storm. 8 1/2 years prior to that a C-119C, G & L --- FE/FM.
Thank you for explaining so well and answering the questions I always have when boarding for our trips to Hawaii 😄😄😄
As always... great content. No BS... just the facts.
Very informative report. Thank you Captain!
Juan, I'm guessing I'm not the only one that hits the 'like' button first, thanks for all you do. On this one, as I was intently following and you said the oxygen generators are driven by a reaction between sodium chloride and iron.... and I started thinking, that would mean old iron hulls would be spontaneously combusting, no? so I looked it up, it's sodium perchlorate, which is a powerful oxidizer. thanks again!
HOPE EVERYTHING GOES WELL WITH YOUR HEALTH AND THAT YOU GET TO LEARN THE 787. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMATION ON THIS MISHAP AND THE FOOD FOR THOUGHT. A INTERESTING VIDEO WOULD BE THE FUTURE OF WHERE YOU SEE AVIATION GOING IN THE FUTURE. WHAT NEW INNOVATIONS A & P WISE, AND ANYTHING ELSE INTERESTING YOU SEE THAT WILL CHANGE AVIATION.
Actually the actual phraseology the PC used to Honolulu Tower was "I have fire in the cargo compartment I will be landing 4 right..." so it seems at that time flight crew fully believed they had a "cargo" (luggage) fire, not just untraceable smoke.
More informative than most of the slick European pilots' videos.
Thanks Galen!
I know of whom you speak, and agree. Juan knows his audience. This video is a prime example of what we want and what he does best: a concise presentation of the event, analysis of possible causes, evaluation of the crew's actions, and identifying what future. developments to aware of. "I came for Oroville, but stayed for the the flying and accident coverage.". 100K subscribers will be an outstanding achievement!
Great video sir, as always. Learned more about the rubber jungle too!
Juan you're a great pilot and engineer! You really help people understand some very challenging topics. Keep it up!
Great report Juan. Keep
up the good work. My wife and I fly a lot so it’s good news to hear about what the air masks are used for.
Thanks Juan, great information. If it's not too personal, how about an update on your health?
Feeling better. Just waiting now for testosterone levels to 'normalize'. 6 months.
As always a very good lay mans description of the problem. Thank you Juan for educating those of us that know very little about aircraft.
Thanks, Juan! Could you comment on Incident: Smartwings B738 over Aegean Sea on Aug 22nd 2019, engine shut down in flight, aircraft continued to Prague?
That incident is pretty well covered on AvHerald: www.avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0
Basically, the crew failed in a couple of areas:
> Flight crew failed to notify ATS at the soonest practicable opportunity;
> Flight crew failed to divert to the nearest available airfield;
> With one engine failed, the aircraft loses 1 of the 3 redundant hydraulic, electrical, and bleed air systems. If you lose one engine, the chances of losing the second engine are statistically higher, if you consider that the reason for loss of engine could be atmospheric, fuel related, foreign-object ingestion, or system failure. Any of those factors have the ability to disable the other engine, and possibly also the APU, rendering all 3 systems circuits inoperable.
> ETOPS has nothing to do with this.
The crew, and therefore the airline, breached aviation procedures, and have put necessary risk onto their passengers.
Samuel Arnold I'm aware of the coverage, but nothing beats Juan's commentary/insight ;)
Exposure to contaminated air wrecked my nervous system and finished my aviation career very prematurely. If you look up the effects of burning jet oil it doesn't for make good reading. Thanks Juan for an in-dept report.
Nice
Great job on putting everything in perspective Awesome
That was just the Cheech and Chong Maui Wowie flight making its regular landing!
"Rubber jungle" HaHa good one! Great informative report. Always love hearing "Weightless" too. Cheers Juan!
Great info, I learn so much from you Juan!! Always wondered why you needed to tug on the mask hose to start the oxygen. Good gravy, now I know!!
I believe that I only fully comprehend about 60%+ of the technical explanations BUT that does not diminish the great pleasure I get from ‘learning’ and sharing your totally fascinating vlogs; keep up the great work. Thank you! 👍🙏🏼
Thanks Juan we are all Counting on you .
Soon people will be booking flights asking, " Hey can I get the blancolirio guy from youtube?" Killer Juan. Peace brother. Stay healthy!
This is a proper channel!
You really Juan us over with your classic, clear, passionate and comprehensive reports, as per usual. =)
Really like all your explanations. I have a FIBULATER installed, hehe, so I really miss piloting an aircraft now. They said I had a heart attack 9 years ago but I didn't fell it. Felt like heart burn, Guess it really BURNED my HEART, hehe. The first one never fired in 7 years and this new one, I hope, never fires ether. I know how you fell not being able to get in the air by yourself and enjoy the wild big yonder. Keep up the good work I really enjoy it.
Thank you for mentioning Swissair. I worked on that
aircraft, and DID do some electrical installations.
Sorry to be so crude, but I was relieved, when I found
out the fire was from "customer installed" systems!
steve
Have you ever experienced something similar to Juan? As a passenger (or Pilot-Passenger) it can be pretty troubling as well which I experienced ago on Christmas Eve I was on a flight from ANC to PDX on a heavily loaded ageing B727 that departed in near white-out conditions, and a couple of mins after Air-Cycle packs started operating large amounts of smoke flooded out the overhead vents, and within a couple of mins the smoke was so thick it was difficult to see from my over-wing seat to the front of the cabin from the thick, acrid 'dirty sock' smelling smoke you described. Even though the pilots quickly shutdown the Cabin air system the thick smoke remained as we did a high-rate turn in IMC and heavy snow, the Captian said to assume 'Brace' positions as we landed with about 30kts of tailwind in near '0/0'conditions over max landing weight, at night and nearly over-ran the runway and had a brief brake fire reported by aircraft at the departure end where we stopped. The engines and all electrical were shut-down as we stopped and were told to remain seated and wait for the fire equipment, but for some reason, the crew did not open any cabin doors (Procedure in case of fire?) as we started suffering the effects of Smoke inhalation. I was sitting next to the Late Senator Ted Stevens who had been a military Pilot and we both demanded they evacuate the aircraft or at least open some doors but the crew refused. Having the Emergency exit Row I advised; "If action was not taken immediately to relieve the smoke situation I am pulling the window and will wait for the rescue on the wing!" Senator Stevens then exclaimed: "We're dying in here! Pull the goddamed window, we'll all join you!" At which point the two forward cabin doors were opened and with the 30kts of wind the cabin air became somewhat tolerable.
As soon as the Rescue determined we were good to taxi we returned to a gate and were told to remain on board until the aircraft was repaired. Ted Stevens and me made our way forward to get off as the head F/A told us to return to our seats, Ted said: "Honey this GD Airplane ain't goin' anywhere, not with me on it anyway!" The Capt. hearing the exchange exited the cockpit and said someone left a rag in the cabin air intake and caught fire in one of the A/C packs and as soon as it was cleared out we would be departing. Ted said "You're full of Sh!t and we left the flight that was cancelled a couple of hours later. Ted and me guessed it was an oil seal rather than a rag.
And something to think about is how in pressurized aircraft even if the source of the smoke is eliminated smoke can build quickly and not be eliminated before you become incapacitated. I had a minor electrical fire in a P210 Cessna caused by someone having wrapped tinfoil around a Hobbs meter fuse that had a chaffing wire. Turning off the master did not stop the burn because it was connected directly to the battery via a gear-up relay. so as soon as I put the gear up and the wire chaffed and grounded at cruise. as I recall turning the electrical master switch off left the Outflow valve functioning and I had to manually dump cabin pressure to open the little side window to get some fresh air but the smoke increased. As I manually extended the gear to get from altitude to a highway below as fast a possible the act of lowering the gear broke the Hobbs circuit and the smoke stopped and I chose instead to land as an airport a few miles away.
Having worked in the Oil an Gas industry I've had some other experiences with smoke in confined areas and one time used a commercial 3M chemical respirator (Like you might get at a paint store) We carried to escape a heavy smoke situation caused by a toxic industrial Ni-Cad battery fire and found it quite effective, My eyes not being protected made it hard to see.
After the 727 cabin fire and the Industrial Ni-Cad fire, as I was doing a lot of international airline flights at the time, I put a 3M respirator in my carry-on along with some swim goggles and in my Flying bag for private personal flights, and I think it's something to consider keeping in the cockpit, and cabin as they are light, inexpensive, come in a sealed bag and easily stowed or packed. On Offshore platforms, I kept one by my bedside and office.
Great job, but I would like to make a few suggestions, except I can't think of any right now.
Haa! There's always room for improvement.
Yeah the B787 is turning out to be a well designed airliner, that is great you can switch from the B777 to the B787 Juan.
thanks again JB for providing us armchair pilots with informative info. I always appreciate your videos that have gotten better and better...and dare I say, "entertaining" !...see you next time
Thanks Rich!
I wish you success in getting your 787 type rating done and flying that supermachine.
Lets get Juan 100,000 subs ASAP !!!
Clear, concise, informative, understandable, as always. Thank you, sir! :)
Thank you for the updates!
Thanks for another great video Juan
Didn't know emergency air was combined with cabin air. Heh "rubber jungle" very descriptive.
It's not combined in the oxygen generator, so not 'combined' in a controlled manner if that's what you think.
You know the medical oxygen masks known as a 'Simple face mask' used by EMT and hospitals?
Well there's holes in the mask which enable you to inhale the ambient air. However, the saturated oxygen is also delivered to the mask, so you end up breathing both sources of air.
Have a look at these yellow oxygen masks, and you'll see the 2 vents in the mask which allow air to be inhaled from the cabin.
Picture: media.cntraveler.com/photos/596fb8455613850539d6349b/16:9/w_1400,c_limit/plane-oxygen-mask-cr-alamy-A6C99D.jpg
It's not like a full-face rebreather, where you're only breathing the 100% oxygen with your own exhaled air to avoid inhaling gas or fumes.
But I argue that any addition oxygen saturation would help your brain get the oxygen it needs in a smoky cabin.
(I'm a Firefighter and a Commercial Pilot)
Judging by your excitement, I know that you will be happy to learn to fly a new aircraft, with new systems. Nothing like learning new things to keep one’s mind sharp. By the way, I was surprised to hear that your airline does not use the 787 to fly to London. BA and AC have been doing so from the YUL and YYZ for the last three years.
I spent the years 80 to 93 Testing, Troubleshooting, Limited Repairing (only 2 legged components), and Retesting the electronic controllers of PACK systems for 727, 737, 747 and L1011 aircraft at Hamilton Standard Div. UTC. It was a great job until they moved the manufacturing out of CT to the cheaper labor markets. The PACKs are very interesting systems but the new system that doesn't require Bleed Air sounds like the way to go. sdh in CT (BDL)
Juan, Great reporting. Keeping us posted is a good thing! Thank you 👍🏻👍🏻✌🏻I hope you are feeling well. 🙏
On an aircraft like the 787, just how "air-tight" is the cabin? That is, if the electric pressurization pump stopped, and the tail bleed valve closed, about how long would the cabin hold pressure altitude?
not long, you'd have to do an emergency descent I bet.
Depends on the cabin decay rate, your cabin differential pressure and the condition of all seals and sealing of the aircraft in question. There is a acceptable rate in the aircraft maintenance manual. This decay rate assumes 1 AC pack operating, or no AC pack operating, outflow valve closed, which in cruise , the valve should be nearly 100% closed depending on your cruise altitude
This is my opinion and all aircraft are different. Normally I would say roughly about 2-3 minutes to get control of the cabin differential or descend to a altitude less than the automatic mask deployment threshold, or manual deployment.
Aircraft are not airtight. You have to have a flow into the plane to replace used air and to pressurize.
Thanks for the report Juan! (PS. from the radar track it looks like they may have landed 4R, not 8L in HNL)
As always a great informative video. I worked in the aviation industry years ago and it’s frustrating to see the inaccuracy of news programming. Even from their experts. Glad you’re on the mend and keep up the good work.
Juan, You are one great source of valuable knowledge. Thanks so much for sharing in terms the layperson can understand. We are praying that you get back in the air soon. Passengers could not have a better, more competent pilot.
Nice explanation. I hope you get your medical back ASAP. I retired Capt AB321 AA Nov 2018 after 30 yrs AA Eagle, USAir, and American. I miss the flying and $$ but not the BS lol
LOL keep your feet off the furniture... when I took my first airline flight 36 years ago I never thought anyone would have to be told to keep their feet off the seat in front of them.
...feet on the furniture- WHILE clipping toenails- one of the most disgusting things I have yet seen. Greyhound low price bus ticket rates on an airliner = Greyhound low class passengers on an airliner, IMHO.
orginally the 707 used turbo/compressor which were feed by bleed air as the engine manufactures were concerned with "dirty" bleed air. There were three turbo/compressors with number 4 engine not having one.
I like the idea of the system you talked about on the 787. I guess all were lucky it was just the seal and it didn't hurt the engine's performance. Something where smoke enters the cabin must be scary to all on board. Was on a 737-100 on Frontier Air in 1984 from Minot to Denver and at altitude it hit some air pocket and dropped about 1,000 feet. I thought I was a goner and when I saw the wings bend upward, I thought it again but the wings held on. The jet was grounded for checks and I don't know whatever happened regarding that. I can tell you though when things don't go right on a jet, people are scared to death. I got off track here but thanks again for explaining how this happened and how the systems work so I can understand... Now waiting for the next class of Juan's College of Aviation Knowledge 101.
The blancolirio global hanger headquarters - Nice!! Bet you can't say that three times fast!
Or passenger oxygen supply... ;)
Juan Browne, you are a wealth of information; information based on years of direct experience. As Always, Thanks ! Bob
Your are the man sir! Great video as well as educational!
Thank you, Juan for great reporting. You are a treasure.
Hope your health will soon allow you to be at the controls of that 787!
Great information thank Juan. Boy it just seems like day after day after day there's aviation issues recently. The gears in my head start asking why and I suppose it's just the law of averages. I suppose. 🚩
Juan, loving these airplane vids you are doing!!! stay busy and hope you are recovering well
Anyone else think about that old John Wayne movie, "Point of No Return" while Juan was giving an explanation for this Hawaiian flight.
Great information, it answered some of my questions.
Thanks for sharing another informative video.
Stan
Our go-to guy for aviation commentary.
That would be a worst-case scenario for me. With asthma, breathing oil smoke is about the worst possible thing I could do. I'd probably be half dead by the time they landed! Wonder if they'd let me check a paint-style mask? 😂 That would probably trigger something at the TSA checkpoint ... 😁
Anyway, great info as always, Juan! Loved the detailed schematics and your explanation. Learning alot here!! 😎
Smitty Smithsonite believe me IKNOW,,& I had to work on so many oil burned with high SULPHUR oil, so I KNOW how bad it can be, & those days I was NOT YET DIAGNOSED,doing very well thanks to my MD, , LOTS OF MEDS, but NO SETBACKS, peak flows are good , , stay well bud , take care, and CHEERS FROM NJ
Smitty Smithsonite , I fly with a 3m mask, and do carry CPAP, ,,once CONTINENTAL, WANTED ME TO CHECK IT, so I told them how it goes,,it’s an RX, but you just don’t get them at any drugstore, +what it costs< OK, YOU KEEP IT !
@@flybyairplane3528 - Thanks Leighton! I work in the automotive and small engine repair industry, which is probably the worst place for me to be, but it pays the bills. I'm always breathing smoke, fumes, and rust dust up here in the Northeast. Had a great doc 20 years ago that got me off the fast acting albuterol inhalers and on to something that works on the root of the problem. Been great ever since, relatively speaking. Attacks are now few and far between. Thanks for the kind words, and CHEERS back at ya from MA. 👍🍻
Carry a clean hanki and have a bottle of water on hand . You can then be able to "water board" yourself to filter the smoke... just a thought.
Excellent report! T!hank you captain! go for it!!! 787 :-)
I've been wondering about the dirty sock smell, professionally.
Was that really the smoke hood worn by flight attendants??? Looks like something from Mars Attacks.
And not very reassuring to see when you're sucking on a leaky Dixie cup.
i saw the accident that caused them to develop those hoods from one of the Air Disaster videos on Smithsonian Channel!!
Once again laying down some serious knowledge.. THank you sir
Another great video. Air quality and the lack of oil separators has always bothered me. BA pilot Richard Westgate was 43 when he died from aero toxicity .
Thanks Juan for your channel, and I hope you get well soon.
PACK: Pneumatic Air Conditioning Kit
(source: somewhere on youtube)
Thanks again for the great technical explanation on this event. As much as I enjoy them, I would rather you be talking about Oroville dam or something. That would mean all is well in the sky.
We can always count on no frills accurate reporting on the Blancolirio Channel!
Frills are overrated.
man am i glad the orrville dam spillway caved in. i’m hooked on this channel now! keep up the great work Mr Browne.
Not glad it happen, but it brought me to Biancolirio!
Thanks Juan.. This information makes for me and I think others more informed and safer. Love the terms especially the "Jungle". Now if it happens I have an idea of whats going on. I am familiar with those types of smells. Oil vs. electrical vs. products of combustion. Good luck on the new Type Ratting.
Love your presentations Juan. So good to know what goes on with the plane in these circumstances. Hope I don't have to go through any of them.
Always a great job Juan
Thanks Juan. I wonder if those electric compressors will be as reliable as the bleed air? They will have oil in them as well.