One thing I didn’t see mentioned were mobility kills on AT-ATs. The Scariff scene from Rogue 1 showed concentrated firepower from an aerial gunner on the AT-ATs knee joint was enough to disable it. These videos have been outstanding and extremely well done. Modern army unit defending Whiskey Outpost from Starship Troopers would be awesome.
hey, sometimes our battle plan misses things. Hyper fixating on the danger of the blasters+troops would encourage full kills, but mobi kills would mess up firing (unlike tanks) but may allow some proportion of troopers to dismount
@ yeah not trying to nitpick at all, thought the whole video and concept was fantastic. Focusing on actually destroying the AT-ATs is definitely the way to go. Watching the video in this fictional scenario it started going through my head if maybe a LAW rocket would be able to destroy the knee joint.
@@flyingcavetroll7247 not to mention that the weapons used were ionic in nature, meaning critical systems to keep the integrity of the joints are now disrupted.
@@coralsearc Thinking about it, wasn't the change from repulsor craft, wheeled vehicles and shorter walkers to the empire's massive walkers due to the empire's switch in military tactics? In your opinion, would the empire have done better if they had used similar vehicles as the Grand army did in this battle?
@@aethelon4144 the presence of the echo base energy shield forces the empire to use walkers (or wheeled/tracked vehicles) in their assault, as repulsorlift technology would interfere with the shields when passing through, disabling the vehicles and potentially damaging the components. I'd argue that the AT-TE on its own would perform worse than the AT-AT for a number of reasons: 1. The disadvantage the AT-AT has in its wonky center of gravity is not really exploited by the defenders in this scenario (unlike how the rebels used the tow cabels in the film) 2. Since much of this battle comes down to the AT-ATs being able to absorb continuous fire, the AT-TE would fare significantly worse as it has considerably weaker armor 3. While the AT-AT has serious weak points in its design, the AT-TE is basically begging for its pilot to be shot through its massive exposed frontal window. Any force that has the firepower to penetrate the AT-AT's weak points would have a trivial task in eliminating the AT-TE pilot, thus halting the entire walker. Even worse is the main gunner, who is literally sitting right out in the open (sucky place to be on an ice planet), with little to no armor protecting his flanks. The flanking defender forces wouldn't even need anti-vehicle weapons to eliminate all the main guns of all the AT-TEs The only real advantage of the AT-TEs would be in the desperate final stand, as the walker has a 360 degree field of fire on its main cannon (assuming the gunner hasn't already been shot lol) and rear facing medium weapons. But at that point it would be far too little far too late, as the weaker armor of the AT-TE would be easily penetrated by the combined fire of the defenders. Not to mention that the walkers probably wouldn't even make it anywhere near as far as the AT-ATs due to ease at which the defenders could disable them by exploiting the weak points.
these videos honestly do feel like a new subgenre of HFY. only instead of a story about humanity kicking ass, its a military assessment of how humanity kicks ass, and i am here for it.
I heard somewhere that the Plastoid plates are designed to absorb the energy from blaster fire rather than stop solid projectiles, so I imagine your assupmtion that they're vulnerable to rifle fire would be correct
Makes sense, sort of like how modern bulletproof armor would be pretty useless against swords and halberds. And unlike the droids, the Imperials have a real excuse not to bother with slugthrower weapons.
@@classarank7youtubeherokeyb63 I mean. If it hit the plate it wouldn't penetrate and Kevlar also used in many stab-proof vest. If warfare still revolve around melee, we would probably have kevlar and polymer knight running around. Although that could be said the same with Star Wars' armor.
From my understanding, Plastoid armor is effective against kinetic and energy threats, as the former is actually 'only' uncommon in the Star Wars galaxy... though their 'slugthrowers' are far more massive than anything seen on Earth. Though it must be noted that it gets ludicrous in the Legends canon (like, well, plastoid plate could tank a heavy metal spear going fast enough to throw the guy in the armor into the air for several feet and come out only scuffed), which thankfully Disney didn't use.
These videos are so good! I have loved both of these. I love learning the strategy and tactics. I also love learning about the militaries of different countries. I think these videos on fictional battles with modern armies could really become your thing here on youtube. I am sure they take a ton of work, but you have done excellentl
Mate these videos are brilliant, you've really found a great gap in the market here. While other fantasy vs modern videos exist, they're quite surface level and often overly bombastic. Delving into well thought out strategy and unit level analysis with a cool, collected presentation style makes the concept so much more informative and interesting, keep up the awesome work mate!
Btw - I think changing the title of this video to match your previous one , would be better for engagement . Something roughly along the lines of : Modern Tanks VS Imperial AT-ATs - Tactical Analysis of the Battle of Hoth Maybe work "star wars" into the title somewhere , as well . Saying this cause I want you get as many people as possible watching these vids - Cause damn , do I want to see more :]
I can imagine the Space Vikings slotting the 120mm through the view ports on the AT-ATs… Or the CV90s blinding the crew or “shaking” them with bracketing fire on their noggins.
The only concern I have is that you've forgotten that the Empire has the big eyes in the sky. They've got complete Orbital Superiority, and while they can't conduct strategic fire missions, they can observe, particularly the movement of the flanking force. The Executor would be able to tell Veers that the tanks are coming, or that the initial blocking force is there.
Could the orbiting starships destroy the shield with sustained fire? Or temporarily open the shield by concentrating their attacks? I think orbital ISR might be troublesome depending on weather conditions, but the shield doesn't cover all of the atmosphere, right? Could you skim the thing?
@@sunrisejackdaw1779 One of the reasons for building the Death Star was that planets could no longer hide behind planetary shields. Superlasers can punch through them, but ordinary Star Destroyers and even Super Star Destroyers can't sustain enough fire to break planetary shields.
@@LordViruscideI see! Do shields prevent all objects from entering at high speed, therefore the lack of air support? If so, what assets could you as an Imperial commander being to bear that would circumvent this?
@@sunrisejackdaw1779shields in Star Wars are weird, inconsistent from scene to scene and just generally stupid. They have no internal consistency so I can’t even answer that.
@@coralsearcsince it was filmed in both Scotland and Ireland I believe the Ryoal Scottish Regiment could defend it. Winterfell was a dissapointment on TV but a modernized defense will redeme it.
Important to remember that many modern weapons would not stop the undead, or destroy their body to the point they couldn't just be brought back. Whoever faces them either needs a lot of literal fire or overwhelming amounts of explosives to shred the undead to the point that they cannot be effective even when reanimated. It may not seem like a disembodied hand is much of a threat, but thousands of them sure would be. Honestly a force of WW2 Churchill Crocodiles, with ample fuel, would probably be better than modern MBTs in this specific situation.
So to go full spectrum... 1. RED has the opportunity to split forces on breakout from the LZ. A and B Sqn breakout using the E AoA, and C Sqn using the W. This reduces the risk of the entire CS becoming bogged down through vehicle breakdown or route collapse; and allows an organization to enable flank engagement on breakout. So needs a NAI to confirm, and alternate EA and BP for the screen. or Engr task to render W AoA non-viable. 2. The nature of the terrain in both breakout AoAs could be made more treacherous with the application of 81mm HE/SMK. Fire doesn't need to be particularly accurate and could be cued from UAS, just needs to increase the risk of rock collapse and vehicle accident through reduction in SA. This overall will add additional delay, and reduce SA when red first makes contact with direct fire elem. 3. BLUFOR COA as described is a doctrinal delay IOT defend (key action being static MDP defence rather than mobile defence); with a designated strike to CATK. I'd argue theres an alternate COA - Cover IOT defend/delay. Opportunity: Plan maximises BLUFORs mobility advantage over the slower RED heavy armour systems. This becomes a 2 up one back mobile defence plan with two companies making and sustaining contact through dispersed Pl sized ambush and retrograde actions supported by MOR; while depth company occupies the final fallback position IVO the planned MDP. Tk Sqn remains N/C but task is not specified as CATK into EA Bantha, and forms the BG RES, likely task reinforce or pursue. COA amendment requires two CT AOs cut forward, recce Sqn (-) assigned to the W AO, Mech CT to the East (reinforced with up to a Tk Tp). TAIs opened along both AoAs and successive vehicle hides/ direct fire ambush loc sited and developed, with Jav positions to the flanks of each. Risk: Manoeuvre room and cover/ concealment limited. Mitigated by mortar fires to constrain ATAT/ATST SA. Dispersal limits firepower of individual sub callsigns. Mitigated through flank engagements, prepared fighting positions and MOR OS. Depending on REDs bypass policy this COA will possibly force an early deployment of dismt infantry allowing piecemeal destruction through direct and indirect fires, further delaying tempo. Insufficient OS. A single MOR Pl is probably not sufficient to provide fires if en breaks out along multiple AoAs. RFI to rebel comd for additional OS apportionment during covering battle.
I squealed with joy when I saw this upload. So happy to see this become a series! I'm looking forward to see what battles you'll cover in the future - are you going to stick to just movies and TV, or will you consider branching into other media (like books, video games and so forth)? Either way, excited to see the outcome here and to find out what's next!
@@coralsearc Sounds good! If you do end up branching into games, I'd be happy to lend my knowledge anywhere it might be useful - I have played far more vidya than is good for me lol. Regardless, I look forward to seeing what's next!
Just came here to say I love your channel, this video ain't my style but I'll watch it while I eat. Hope this helps boost the algorithm & look forward to your future vids.
Uh something else I did know on stormtrooper armor, Armor has advanced to actually make majority of Ballistics/slug throwers nearly useless. This is why tuskens use a Blaster-Slug hybrid, or why Heavy shotguns are used at very close ranges.
It wouldn't matter. Assuming that the plastoid can resist M855, M855A1 might overcome their hard plates at closer distances and the heavier weapons firing steel AP such as 7,62 machine guns or 12,7mm heavy guns will still cause target defeat. With even moderate concentration of fire, the chances of a bullet discovering armor gaps or weaknesses rises significantly, even if the plate is natively able to stop the shot.
There seemed to be inconsistent cannon regarding plastoid, either it works great against slugs and terrible against blasters, or vice versa. Like Star Wars, I opted for the one that best fit my narrative at the time lol
@ Well yes this is true, at closer distances they will penetrate, canon established this with how shotguns are used only effectively at close ranges to penetrate plastoid and other armor. At longer distances that E-11 Rifles can fight at, the modern fighting force would be at a disadvantage considering modern body armor cannot stop a blaster bolt. Dedicated clone armor couldn't even stop the very cheaply mass produced droid blasters.
@ That's fair, mainly plastoid is incredibly good at absorbing energy, which is why it was chosen for storm trooper armor. Issue with plastoid is blasters like the A-280 are very ramped up civilian blasters, to the point it can SLICE a stormtrooper in half. But regularly ballistics are shown near useless, despite having been used during the uh (I forget the name of the world) But was primitives, who primarily utilized gatling guns on their mechs. But it was shown to be mostly useless against Republic forces, and the entire world rather soon surrendered.
I really liked this video, but I feel that at times you may have been unrealistically unintentionally lowering the amount of friendly casualties. As said early on in the video, the at-at’s heavy cannons would easily destroy all friendly vehicle types so in clashes like the initial screening force and mdp defensive line friendlies would most likely experience far worse losses. Just a thought, great stuff otherwsie
Mate, the force of 1000 breezeway hypotheticals flows strong within you. Think I'll use injects from your Helm's Deep video in a brief next week. Also, I'm pretty sure all the digs want you to do a Battlegroup/BDE-level defence of video next! Cheers from da crustyboiz
We've had two defenses, howabout an attack? Daenerys Targaryen's army and dragons are replaced with an Air Assault force to try and take Kings Landing for her? Surely it can be done without burning the entire city to the ground.
I love the video, but my one issue would be that the AT-ATs are crazy underpowered against the MBTs and IFVs, considering they have automatic targeting and firepower comparable to 155mm artillery
Love this! Don't want this to be the only content you make, but there's a lot of cool potential. Historical revisionism could be fun too: Hellenic Armed Forces vs Xerxes at Thermopylae? Waterloo? It's always hard to gauge the effectiveness of fictional weapon and armour systems when they are so often driven by what the narrative demands more than any sort of self consistent basis in reality, as you noted, and assumptions do have to be made. I think the potential of a range advantage to the AT-ATs over the CV-90s and 2A7s would play a larger role than described, as well as space based observation of the counterattack force. I also doubt drone corrected mortar fire would be effective against the scouting robots, and they would also likely provide better intel on the defenders dispositions. Unsure if the Imperial laser weapons/turrets can be used in a CRAM mode, but that might also be something to consider in regards to mortar, CG, and especially the Javelin attacks; I don't think that's ever shown in the films, but it's definitely a possible capability.
Yeah I think it's likely the strike force gets spotted. In such a situation I can see REDFOR squadrons widening their fields of fire to catch the strike force. However this could be counteracted with concentrated fire from the front. One thing I wonder is that the AT-AT's would still be traversing the glacier when they crest the inflection point. This means if one is killed, they'll still be quite low on glacier, opening the rest up to being bogged down. So many ways to play with the toys XD
I love these videos but I have a hard time believing any force from our era would stand a chance against an interstellar military. Something to consider is the fact that the Imperial Navy would have surveillance from orbit, which I would think should preclude any kind of surprise attack. That said, I absolutely adore this format and "what if" nature of these videos. Looking forward to seeing more!
The terrain from the official map makes this win condition too much of a gimmie. The shield generator is insanely exposed and can be seen well outside the range of defenders. Veers would simply blast it from distance, and return to the LZ for Imperial tea and blue milk
Oh I have a suggestion for next time. Avatar: the Last Air Bender!! For example the battle for Ba Sing Sei would be quite interesting. The fire nation utilize a Mechanized division supporting a GIANT DRILL that doubles as a mobile fortress, commanded by Azula and her squadron. Of course, Aang and the team were ultimately successful at defeating the Mobile Drill Device and it's division, I was wondering if we could possibly stop the machine BEFORE it reaches the City Walls
Did you plan this episode with Ryan McBeth? He released a video that talked about the pros and cons of the AT-AT from a real world military perspective.
Man I gotta go to sleep, I’m gonna have to save this for the morning. Breakfast and an excellent strategic analysis. Thanks again for the excellent content man, you’re the best!
Walking tanks (small and large) seem very vulnerable climbing up the ice flow . Defenders hiding in the mountains above would have short distance clear shots to reduce tank amount. Although that would be a near suicide mission as they have nowhere to retreat, and are quickly outnumbered by snowtroopers . Pro: fewer ATAT reach the plain. Con: Empire lowers its arrogance, adapts tactics, and can reinforce from orbit. A prolonged battle favors the strongest side, in this case the Empire.
If the ice flow is as steep as the official map indicates, it's highly likely that conventional vehicles can't depress their guns enough to engage down it
@@coralsearcyes, only infantry with missiles can reach the mountain tops either side of the ice flows. That's the only place to conduct a guerilla attack. I guess they can either take out 2-3 ATAT (preferred), or most of the small walkers. Either way, it won't win the battle, and may ruin the critical Wookie surprise ambush
Damn I thought the Helms Deep vid was a one off, this shit rocked. Would like to see a What if on the battle of Scarif. Since its not simply a hold and defend battle but one involving an objective and a lot of moving parts. Would like to see who you'd put in that battle
i wonder if the IFVs could also tow a group of skiing infantry behind them while travelling at speed. Also, the Empire should have totally deployed a harrassing force of troopers on speederbikes. All it would take is a single thermal and the shield would be down..
One thing I feel is worth pointing out is that plasma will pretty much induce immediate heat stroke/heat shock upon impact. On the other hand, while ballistic munitions have a great chance of incapacitation (and considering how stormtroopers conveniently stand in the open, this should be no trouble), they still give the snowtroopers a chance that they could potentially continue fighting even while wounded. Any man without armor who gets hit by plasma is going to turn to sludge around the impact. PG-13 films (and Star Wars comics) don't tend to do plasma weapons true justice.
@@coralsearc that's fair, I also am mostly going off of the laws of Thermdynamics. From lore we understand that plasma weapons are bolts of gas that have been superheated. Plasma in physics is also extremely heated gas. This does bring into question matters of equilibrium, essentially meaning 'x object is so-so warmer or colder than the average temperature of its environment or what it comes into contact with, said subject is a communist who wants it to share.' Now I won't consider how the flight path of plasma will affect its temperature since we're talking 300 yards, and plasma weapons shown in media, though obviously slower than bullets, still have a considerable velocity. When that condensed bolt of plasma impacts with a human body, we're talking a temperature difference of (at scientific minimum) 10,000 K versus the puny 310 K of the human body. Put nicely, said unfortunate human...is probably going to be turned into goo.
(Side note, I had to edit this post twice because I am awake at unreasonable hours nerding out about the scientific aspect of Star Wars, a show where human beings lack basic self-preservation)
I only have 1 critique, which is the empire would have constant, reap time surveillance of the battlefield from the fleet in orbit, which means veers would be aware of the flanking force and be able to deploy a squadron to counter them. Additionally. I don't know how far the vase shield extends so the flanking force may be out of the protection bubble, which means they would be vulnerable to orbital artillery
24:16 looking at this terrain; surely telemark battallion has done exercises in A2AD and delaying efforts. While yes, their indirect fires is limited to 81mm, the somewhat large open terrain before the base allows for mortars to be used to full effect.
I can only assume that Vader's absence is owing to being engaged in a duel with Major General Sir Nils Olav III, the Norwegian Army's highest ranking penguin.
"Heavily armoured, the leopard is protected from autocannon and medium blaster fire" Isn't the plasma from blaster fire comparable to the stream of molten metal used in anti-tank rounds? It seems like tanks should be highly vulnerable to blasters
The "stream of molten metal" is a myth, it's more or less just a really high amount of kinetic force. Heat like from plasma would theoretically just dissipate against the armor, especially in a frigid environment against composite armor, and I doubt any amount from a blaster is sufficient to penetrate a tank. A thin layer of super plastic is enough to save ones life from such fire.
Great Video, so glad this is going to be a series. I am a big military nerd as well as historical, fantasy and sci fi. Right up my alley. I really like the idea of tackling Sci-Fi and Fantasy and using different nation's military and branches. I would ask a couple questions however. Are you considering doing historical battles? And what about different time periods? Like say for example How would WW2 soldiers do against the Empire. I also think the more math and stats you could put in the video the better. Like compare how many Inches of steel a Gustav can penetrate and compare that to the thickness of AT-AT armor. Unless of course you can't find that information, I totally understand. I appreciate how this video was much more even as well. The Defenders had the mobility and more heavy weapons. But the Attackers had more infantry. It made me even consider the Empire winning as they had done in the film. I greatly appreciate you listing all the strengths the Opposing Force also has. It gave great insight to the original property. The whole tactical awareness aspect of the elevated cockpit of the AT-AT is something I never thought about before. Also I loved the Helms Deep Debrief, are you going to be doing more of them in the future? Keep it up man.
Much appreciated mate, some good advice in there. I certainly won't limit it to cinema, but honestly I find those most interesting for now. Will probably get around to more historical battles eventually
Love this. Great work. You really got something here and there is quite a lot of engagement in the battle logic. Do you have a Discord channel of similar where this can be properly utilized? (You could collect kick-ass data for the craziest turn based tactical war game… ever :-)
I'd actually be really curious to see multiple different ways the battle simulation could have played out, or at least see it addressed in the main video (if relevant, and if it makes sense for the pacing) For example, if the Norwegian ambush being spotted would have significantly altered the outcome of the battle, would it have been worth doing a shorter, second battle simulation afterwards, from the point in the battle where they could have been spotted? in any case, I'm sure it would make for good discussion material on a follow-up stream. Love the content man.
Honestly one day I would love to see this kind of fictional fighting on a grand LSCO fight against fictional militaries such as the USNC or maybe the Imperial Guard. Be curious to see how you could have say NATO ground and air forces defend Vraks against the Death Korps.
The big thing that jumps out to me here is that it would appear that Veers simply didn't have enough equipment to prosecute an offensive operation against the Telemark battalion. If Blizzard Force had an additional squadron or two of AT-ATs to defend the flank to the west I could see this fight playing significantly differently. The old adage that an attacker needs a 3:1 advantage to guarantee victory seems to hold up here, as the initial casualties that Veers' army took while advancing into the ice field reduced his combat capability enough that the flanking maneuver and counterattack became decisive.
I agree Veers is definitely undermanned, which comes down the challenge of crafting the scenario. I'm trying to keep true to the reference, and at the same time use the real-world unit as they exist. In hindsight I feel a combat team of 1x tank Squadron, and 1x mech squadron is probably more balanced, but then I'm tailoring ORBATS for the video instead of leaving the unit as is. It's a tricky balance, one that will fairly be an ongoing point of discussion for every video
"Space vikings from Norway are no longer bound by the Geneva Conventions" is a sentence that fills me with profound glee.
I chuckled when I heard that too XD
This line needs to be a shirt!
Me too💀
As it should
new favorite genre just dropped
I was hoping this might become his thing.
I did the art for the map! Glad to have contributed to this amazing series!
Great work mate, let's collab again 🤝
Congratulations for contributing to the best what if mash up series. ☺️BTW you map is awesome
@@krimsonfel3676 man, you did good job.
Great job on the art!
Hell yeah, you’ve found your niche on this platform. Super unique and entertaining content! Please keep it up!
Thanks! Will do!
@@coralsearc Seriously, I'm predicting this as a JCS type channel. You're the start of a whole new genre.
... Just don't turn into a robot.
@@coralsearc Make more please. Oh I have one. Battle of Twilight Gap.
Idk who Darth Vader is, probably a chill bloke
Username checks out
One thing I didn’t see mentioned were mobility kills on AT-ATs. The Scariff scene from Rogue 1 showed concentrated firepower from an aerial gunner on the AT-ATs knee joint was enough to disable it.
These videos have been outstanding and extremely well done. Modern army unit defending Whiskey Outpost from Starship Troopers would be awesome.
hey, sometimes our battle plan misses things. Hyper fixating on the danger of the blasters+troops would encourage full kills, but mobi kills would mess up firing (unlike tanks) but may allow some proportion of troopers to dismount
@ yeah not trying to nitpick at all, thought the whole video and concept was fantastic. Focusing on actually destroying the AT-ATs is definitely the way to go. Watching the video in this fictional scenario it started going through my head if maybe a LAW rocket would be able to destroy the knee joint.
The AT-ATs from Scariff were the transport version which is lighter armored. Straight up going for the kill was the better solution in this case.
Those weren't the same model on scariff, those were the less armored transport model.
@@flyingcavetroll7247 not to mention that the weapons used were ionic in nature, meaning critical systems to keep the integrity of the joints are now disrupted.
The YT algorithm finally did a good thing by picking up your first Helm's deep video. A million views! Congrats!
Thank you
I think my favorite part of this is that you're portraying the enemy as an actual threat.
For sure, Blizzard Force and Veers are supremely capable. Walkers as a combat platform, less so lol
I guess the Force isn't with us here.
He did a good job cause I felt so bad for the recon squad! :( That's such a shitty but necessary position to be in
@@coralsearc Thinking about it, wasn't the change from repulsor craft, wheeled vehicles and shorter walkers to the empire's massive walkers due to the empire's switch in military tactics? In your opinion, would the empire have done better if they had used similar vehicles as the Grand army did in this battle?
@@aethelon4144 the presence of the echo base energy shield forces the empire to use walkers (or wheeled/tracked vehicles) in their assault, as repulsorlift technology would interfere with the shields when passing through, disabling the vehicles and potentially damaging the components. I'd argue that the AT-TE on its own would perform worse than the AT-AT for a number of reasons:
1. The disadvantage the AT-AT has in its wonky center of gravity is not really exploited by the defenders in this scenario (unlike how the rebels used the tow cabels in the film)
2. Since much of this battle comes down to the AT-ATs being able to absorb continuous fire, the AT-TE would fare significantly worse as it has considerably weaker armor
3. While the AT-AT has serious weak points in its design, the AT-TE is basically begging for its pilot to be shot through its massive exposed frontal window. Any force that has the firepower to penetrate the AT-AT's weak points would have a trivial task in eliminating the AT-TE pilot, thus halting the entire walker. Even worse is the main gunner, who is literally sitting right out in the open (sucky place to be on an ice planet), with little to no armor protecting his flanks. The flanking defender forces wouldn't even need anti-vehicle weapons to eliminate all the main guns of all the AT-TEs
The only real advantage of the AT-TEs would be in the desperate final stand, as the walker has a 360 degree field of fire on its main cannon (assuming the gunner hasn't already been shot lol) and rear facing medium weapons. But at that point it would be far too little far too late, as the weaker armor of the AT-TE would be easily penetrated by the combined fire of the defenders. Not to mention that the walkers probably wouldn't even make it anywhere near as far as the AT-ATs due to ease at which the defenders could disable them by exploiting the weak points.
these videos honestly do feel like a new subgenre of HFY. only instead of a story about humanity kicking ass, its a military assessment of how humanity kicks ass, and i am here for it.
I heard somewhere that the Plastoid plates are designed to absorb the energy from blaster fire rather than stop solid projectiles, so I imagine your assupmtion that they're vulnerable to rifle fire would be correct
Any idea where I might find it?
I read the same somewhere, that plastoid was focused on stopping blasters as they were more ubiquitous than slug/projectiles
Makes sense, sort of like how modern bulletproof armor would be pretty useless against swords and halberds. And unlike the droids, the Imperials have a real excuse not to bother with slugthrower weapons.
@@classarank7youtubeherokeyb63 I mean. If it hit the plate it wouldn't penetrate and Kevlar also used in many stab-proof vest. If warfare still revolve around melee, we would probably have kevlar and polymer knight running around. Although that could be said the same with Star Wars' armor.
From my understanding, Plastoid armor is effective against kinetic and energy threats, as the former is actually 'only' uncommon in the Star Wars galaxy... though their 'slugthrowers' are far more massive than anything seen on Earth.
Though it must be noted that it gets ludicrous in the Legends canon (like, well, plastoid plate could tank a heavy metal spear going fast enough to throw the guy in the armor into the air for several feet and come out only scuffed), which thankfully Disney didn't use.
So glad we got another one! Super fun. Keep up the great work.
Many thanks dig
These videos are so good! I have loved both of these. I love learning the strategy and tactics. I also love learning about the militaries of different countries. I think these videos on fictional battles with modern armies could really become your thing here on youtube. I am sure they take a ton of work, but you have done excellentl
Many thanks 🤝
@@coralsearc
He's right.
This segment has been used to commence Defence Project 1109 for the Australian Army, AT-AT 😂
I am loving this series with all my heart
Mate these videos are brilliant, you've really found a great gap in the market here. While other fantasy vs modern videos exist, they're quite surface level and often overly bombastic. Delving into well thought out strategy and unit level analysis with a cool, collected presentation style makes the concept so much more informative and interesting, keep up the awesome work mate!
Much appreciated
But the real question is, if you get a K-kill on an AT-AT with a Javelin does it still only count as one?
Btw -
I think changing the title of this video to match your previous one , would be better for engagement .
Something roughly along the lines of :
Modern Tanks VS Imperial AT-ATs - Tactical Analysis of the Battle of Hoth
Maybe work "star wars" into the title somewhere , as well .
Saying this cause I want
you get as many people as possible watching these vids -
Cause damn , do I want to see more :]
Sold
I can imagine the Space Vikings slotting the 120mm through the view ports on the AT-ATs… Or the CV90s blinding the crew or “shaking” them with bracketing fire on their noggins.
The only concern I have is that you've forgotten that the Empire has the big eyes in the sky. They've got complete Orbital Superiority, and while they can't conduct strategic fire missions, they can observe, particularly the movement of the flanking force. The Executor would be able to tell Veers that the tanks are coming, or that the initial blocking force is there.
Could the orbiting starships destroy the shield with sustained fire? Or temporarily open the shield by concentrating their attacks?
I think orbital ISR might be troublesome depending on weather conditions, but the shield doesn't cover all of the atmosphere, right? Could you skim the thing?
@@sunrisejackdaw1779 No you cannot, to bring such shields down Torpedo Sphere's were required.
@@sunrisejackdaw1779 One of the reasons for building the Death Star was that planets could no longer hide behind planetary shields. Superlasers can punch through them, but ordinary Star Destroyers and even Super Star Destroyers can't sustain enough fire to break planetary shields.
@@LordViruscideI see! Do shields prevent all objects from entering at high speed, therefore the lack of air support?
If so, what assets could you as an Imperial commander being to bear that would circumvent this?
@@sunrisejackdaw1779shields in Star Wars are weird, inconsistent from scene to scene and just generally stupid. They have no internal consistency so I can’t even answer that.
Can you do the battle of Winterfell against the Army of the undead? No effort can be worse than what we saw.
Winterfell is an inevitability! the question is who defends, and what do we think is the smallest force composition that could make it work
@@coralsearcsince it was filmed in both Scotland and Ireland I believe the Ryoal Scottish Regiment could defend it. Winterfell was a dissapointment on TV but a modernized defense will redeme it.
Important to remember that many modern weapons would not stop the undead, or destroy their body to the point they couldn't just be brought back. Whoever faces them either needs a lot of literal fire or overwhelming amounts of explosives to shred the undead to the point that they cannot be effective even when reanimated. It may not seem like a disembodied hand is much of a threat, but thousands of them sure would be. Honestly a force of WW2 Churchill Crocodiles, with ample fuel, would probably be better than modern MBTs in this specific situation.
What about dragon-glass tipped projectiles? 👀
@@coralsearcDon't forget incendiary rounds
I love your approach to these battle scenarios very different from the typical RUclips fictional battle scenarios
Thanks cobba
So to go full spectrum...
1. RED has the opportunity to split forces on breakout from the LZ. A and B Sqn breakout using the E AoA, and C Sqn using the W. This reduces the risk of the entire CS becoming bogged down through vehicle breakdown or route collapse; and allows an organization to enable flank engagement on breakout. So needs a NAI to confirm, and alternate EA and BP for the screen. or Engr task to render W AoA non-viable.
2. The nature of the terrain in both breakout AoAs could be made more treacherous with the application of 81mm HE/SMK. Fire doesn't need to be particularly accurate and could be cued from UAS, just needs to increase the risk of rock collapse and vehicle accident through reduction in SA. This overall will add additional delay, and reduce SA when red first makes contact with direct fire elem.
3. BLUFOR COA as described is a doctrinal delay IOT defend (key action being static MDP defence rather than mobile defence); with a designated strike to CATK. I'd argue theres an alternate COA - Cover IOT defend/delay. Opportunity: Plan maximises BLUFORs mobility advantage over the slower RED heavy armour systems.
This becomes a 2 up one back mobile defence plan with two companies making and sustaining contact through dispersed Pl sized ambush and retrograde actions supported by MOR; while depth company occupies the final fallback position IVO the planned MDP. Tk Sqn remains N/C but task is not specified as CATK into EA Bantha, and forms the BG RES, likely task reinforce or pursue. COA amendment requires two CT AOs cut forward, recce Sqn (-) assigned to the W AO, Mech CT to the East (reinforced with up to a Tk Tp). TAIs opened along both AoAs and successive vehicle hides/ direct fire ambush loc sited and developed, with Jav positions to the flanks of each.
Risk: Manoeuvre room and cover/ concealment limited. Mitigated by mortar fires to constrain ATAT/ATST SA.
Dispersal limits firepower of individual sub callsigns. Mitigated through flank engagements, prepared fighting positions and MOR OS. Depending on REDs bypass policy this COA will possibly force an early deployment of dismt infantry allowing piecemeal destruction through direct and indirect fires, further delaying tempo.
Insufficient OS. A single MOR Pl is probably not sufficient to provide fires if en breaks out along multiple AoAs. RFI to rebel comd for additional OS apportionment during covering battle.
"Space vikings from Norway are no longer burdened by the Geneva conventions"
Great video, Minas Tirith next?
I'll probably run a poll or discuss what's next in a live stream
I squealed with joy when I saw this upload. So happy to see this become a series! I'm looking forward to see what battles you'll cover in the future - are you going to stick to just movies and TV, or will you consider branching into other media (like books, video games and so forth)? Either way, excited to see the outcome here and to find out what's next!
Thanks mate. Will stick to movies and TV for now, will branch into games if that runs dry
@@coralsearc Sounds good! If you do end up branching into games, I'd be happy to lend my knowledge anywhere it might be useful - I have played far more vidya than is good for me lol. Regardless, I look forward to seeing what's next!
Was hoping for more videos like this. Well done, sir
Glad you liked it
Just came here to say I love your channel, this video ain't my style but I'll watch it while I eat. Hope this helps boost the algorithm & look forward to your future vids.
Thanks mate, what's for dinner?
Uh something else I did know on stormtrooper armor, Armor has advanced to actually make majority of Ballistics/slug throwers nearly useless.
This is why tuskens use a Blaster-Slug hybrid, or why Heavy shotguns are used at very close ranges.
It wouldn't matter. Assuming that the plastoid can resist M855, M855A1 might overcome their hard plates at closer distances and the heavier weapons firing steel AP such as 7,62 machine guns or 12,7mm heavy guns will still cause target defeat.
With even moderate concentration of fire, the chances of a bullet discovering armor gaps or weaknesses rises significantly, even if the plate is natively able to stop the shot.
There seemed to be inconsistent cannon regarding plastoid, either it works great against slugs and terrible against blasters, or vice versa. Like Star Wars, I opted for the one that best fit my narrative at the time lol
Plus fragmentation from 40mm, Raufoss, frags, and mortars finding gaps in plating
@ Well yes this is true, at closer distances they will penetrate, canon established this with how shotguns are used only effectively at close ranges to penetrate plastoid and other armor.
At longer distances that E-11 Rifles can fight at, the modern fighting force would be at a disadvantage considering modern body armor cannot stop a blaster bolt.
Dedicated clone armor couldn't even stop the very cheaply mass produced droid blasters.
@ That's fair, mainly plastoid is incredibly good at absorbing energy, which is why it was chosen for storm trooper armor.
Issue with plastoid is blasters like the A-280 are very ramped up civilian blasters, to the point it can SLICE a stormtrooper in half.
But regularly ballistics are shown near useless, despite having been used during the uh (I forget the name of the world) But was primitives, who primarily utilized gatling guns on their mechs.
But it was shown to be mostly useless against Republic forces, and the entire world rather soon surrendered.
I was obsessed with the lord of the rings one. This one is just as good. I really hope your channel grows because god damn this is quality content!
Very kind
Mate, im glad your channel has absolutely exploded as of late
I’m writing a dnd campaign and this is giving me ideas. Great video mate
Once again, amazing mate. No duff robocop!
This was awesome! Please keep doing more of these. I haven't been this excited to find a channel in ages
I really liked this video, but I feel that at times you may have been unrealistically unintentionally lowering the amount of friendly casualties. As said early on in the video, the at-at’s heavy cannons would easily destroy all friendly vehicle types so in clashes like the initial screening force and mdp defensive line friendlies would most likely experience far worse losses. Just a thought, great stuff otherwsie
You're right, I should have shown more friendly vehicles on the MDP being destroyed, though I think the end result is unchanged.
Absolutely beautiful video, had a blast watching it
Glad you enjoyed it
Mate, the force of 1000 breezeway hypotheticals flows strong within you. Think I'll use injects from your Helm's Deep video in a brief next week. Also, I'm pretty sure all the digs want you to do a Battlegroup/BDE-level defence of video next! Cheers from da crustyboiz
Much apreciate the dono mate, and I reckon Minas Tirith will be a BDE job when I eventually get around to it
Space Vikings from Norway!!! Lmao 😂😂😂
surely you do the defense of new Alexandria or new mombassa with a modern force.
great video btw, keep it up!
We've had two defenses, howabout an attack?
Daenerys Targaryen's army and dragons are replaced with an Air Assault force to try and take Kings Landing for her? Surely it can be done without burning the entire city to the ground.
That's pretty sick
This series is nuts, keep up the good work
Im so glad i found this channel
Awesome !
I'm already impatient for more
Been waiting for this, this Sunday, just got a whole lot better.
holy crap, keep this up please. This is litterally my dream
42:08 ah yes, the 300 space varangians of Hoth
Since star wars takes place a long time ago, the empire would actually consider the norwegians to be incredibly futuristic rather than primitive 🤓
Haha fair point
I love the video, but my one issue would be that the AT-ATs are crazy underpowered against the MBTs and IFVs, considering they have automatic targeting and firepower comparable to 155mm artillery
I tried to emphasise the AT-AT's can one-shot even the MBT's, but agree I could have shown them destroying more tanks so it's a fair criticism
"Space Vikings from Norway" at the end there killed me. Thank you.
Yes! A new one already! Amazing video!
Love this! Don't want this to be the only content you make, but there's a lot of cool potential. Historical revisionism could be fun too: Hellenic Armed Forces vs Xerxes at Thermopylae? Waterloo?
It's always hard to gauge the effectiveness of fictional weapon and armour systems when they are so often driven by what the narrative demands more than any sort of self consistent basis in reality, as you noted, and assumptions do have to be made. I think the potential of a range advantage to the AT-ATs over the CV-90s and 2A7s would play a larger role than described, as well as space based observation of the counterattack force. I also doubt drone corrected mortar fire would be effective against the scouting robots, and they would also likely provide better intel on the defenders dispositions. Unsure if the Imperial laser weapons/turrets can be used in a CRAM mode, but that might also be something to consider in regards to mortar, CG, and especially the Javelin attacks; I don't think that's ever shown in the films, but it's definitely a possible capability.
Yeah I think it's likely the strike force gets spotted. In such a situation I can see REDFOR squadrons widening their fields of fire to catch the strike force. However this could be counteracted with concentrated fire from the front.
One thing I wonder is that the AT-AT's would still be traversing the glacier when they crest the inflection point. This means if one is killed, they'll still be quite low on glacier, opening the rest up to being bogged down. So many ways to play with the toys XD
Lesgooo he posted another one, keep up the good work!
I love these videos but I have a hard time believing any force from our era would stand a chance against an interstellar military. Something to consider is the fact that the Imperial Navy would have surveillance from orbit, which I would think should preclude any kind of surprise attack. That said, I absolutely adore this format and "what if" nature of these videos. Looking forward to seeing more!
6:36 Not a fan of that. The win condition should ideally stay the same. If the Imperial forces destroy your AA/S umbrella, they win.
The terrain from the official map makes this win condition too much of a gimmie. The shield generator is insanely exposed and can be seen well outside the range of defenders. Veers would simply blast it from distance, and return to the LZ for Imperial tea and blue milk
@@coralsearc plus it's clear in the movie they keep pursuing despite that objective, so total destruction is a safe goal
More of this stuff please! This is so Exciting!!!
Appreciate that
Oh I have a suggestion for next time. Avatar: the Last Air Bender!! For example the battle for Ba Sing Sei would be quite interesting. The fire nation utilize a Mechanized division supporting a GIANT DRILL that doubles as a mobile fortress, commanded by Azula and her squadron. Of course, Aang and the team were ultimately successful at defeating the Mobile Drill Device and it's division, I was wondering if we could possibly stop the machine BEFORE it reaches the City Walls
That was such a delight to watch. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Fantastic video, thoroughly enjoyed
Did you plan this episode with Ryan McBeth? He released a video that talked about the pros and cons of the AT-AT from a real world military perspective.
I can't say I did
Great minds think alike I guess. I love the content. It's like Templin Institute and Battle Order had an Australian love child.
Man I gotta go to sleep, I’m gonna have to save this for the morning. Breakfast and an excellent strategic analysis. Thanks again for the excellent content man, you’re the best!
Thanks dig
A fantastic breakdown. Love these kinds of videos
Walking tanks (small and large) seem very vulnerable climbing up the ice flow . Defenders hiding in the mountains above would have short distance clear shots to reduce tank amount.
Although that would be a near suicide mission as they have nowhere to retreat, and are quickly outnumbered by snowtroopers .
Pro: fewer ATAT reach the plain. Con: Empire lowers its arrogance, adapts tactics, and can reinforce from orbit.
A prolonged battle favors the strongest side, in this case the Empire.
If the ice flow is as steep as the official map indicates, it's highly likely that conventional vehicles can't depress their guns enough to engage down it
If you're talking about infantry AT teams, that's got more potential for sho
@@coralsearcyes, only infantry with missiles can reach the mountain tops either side of the ice flows. That's the only place to conduct a guerilla attack. I guess they can either take out 2-3 ATAT (preferred), or most of the small walkers. Either way, it won't win the battle, and may ruin the critical Wookie surprise ambush
This a video I have been waiting for for decades.
Damn I thought the Helms Deep vid was a one off, this shit rocked. Would like to see a What if on the battle of Scarif. Since its not simply a hold and defend battle but one involving an objective and a lot of moving parts. Would like to see who you'd put in that battle
i wonder if the IFVs could also tow a group of skiing infantry behind them while travelling at speed.
Also, the Empire should have totally deployed a harrassing force of troopers on speederbikes. All it would take is a single thermal and the shield would be down..
Speeder bikes would definitely change the game
Happy to help with the ORBAT for this!
One thing I feel is worth pointing out is that plasma will pretty much induce immediate heat stroke/heat shock upon impact. On the other hand, while ballistic munitions have a great chance of incapacitation (and considering how stormtroopers conveniently stand in the open, this should be no trouble), they still give the snowtroopers a chance that they could potentially continue fighting even while wounded. Any man without armor who gets hit by plasma is going to turn to sludge around the impact. PG-13 films (and Star Wars comics) don't tend to do plasma weapons true justice.
From what i can tell I'm not even sure Star Wars creators agree on what plasma/blasters can do insofar as terminal effect
@@coralsearc that's fair, I also am mostly going off of the laws of Thermdynamics. From lore we understand that plasma weapons are bolts of gas that have been superheated. Plasma in physics is also extremely heated gas. This does bring into question matters of equilibrium, essentially meaning 'x object is so-so warmer or colder than the average temperature of its environment or what it comes into contact with, said subject is a communist who wants it to share.' Now I won't consider how the flight path of plasma will affect its temperature since we're talking 300 yards, and plasma weapons shown in media, though obviously slower than bullets, still have a considerable velocity. When that condensed bolt of plasma impacts with a human body, we're talking a temperature difference of (at scientific minimum) 10,000 K versus the puny 310 K of the human body. Put nicely, said unfortunate human...is probably going to be turned into goo.
(Side note, I had to edit this post twice because I am awake at unreasonable hours nerding out about the scientific aspect of Star Wars, a show where human beings lack basic self-preservation)
"Chin mounted" gave me a chuckle
I only have 1 critique, which is the empire would have constant, reap time surveillance of the battlefield from the fleet in orbit, which means veers would be aware of the flanking force and be able to deploy a squadron to counter them. Additionally. I don't know how far the vase shield extends so the flanking force may be out of the protection bubble, which means they would be vulnerable to orbital artillery
Another stella vid mate.
Please MAKE MORE I LOVE THESE
24:16 looking at this terrain; surely telemark battallion has done exercises in A2AD and delaying efforts. While yes, their indirect fires is limited to 81mm, the somewhat large open terrain before the base allows for mortars to be used to full effect.
I can only assume that Vader's absence is owing to being engaged in a duel with Major General Sir Nils Olav III, the Norwegian Army's highest ranking penguin.
Did the planning include mine placements and long range artillery also? Keep up the good work 👍 Quite fun to see these "what if" scenarios 😀
Love it, please do Pelennor Fields/Minas Tirith next!
Another CSRC Banger
Love these types of videos
Nice work. Keep it up!
Thanks!
Sorry honey, I have to watch the boys absolutely body the empire.
This is some proper sig shit. I love it.
a Banger of a video man, I can't wait for the next episode. Also quick question will you also be doing an analysis form the attackers side?
Appreciate you. I might touch on the attacking side in stream, but will do seperate battles that focus on the offensive
keep doing these videos theyre great
Love these
Mate this is an awesome format, Combined Universe Combined Arms
great analysis more of this please
Many thanks, more to come
Ahh yes, the telemark-eters. The empire will be too busy answering calls to the owner of the business about a solar deal to launch the attack!
"Heavily armoured, the leopard is protected from autocannon and medium blaster fire"
Isn't the plasma from blaster fire comparable to the stream of molten metal used in anti-tank rounds? It seems like tanks should be highly vulnerable to blasters
The "stream of molten metal" is a myth, it's more or less just a really high amount of kinetic force. Heat like from plasma would theoretically just dissipate against the armor, especially in a frigid environment against composite armor, and I doubt any amount from a blaster is sufficient to penetrate a tank. A thin layer of super plastic is enough to save ones life from such fire.
Man I love these
Weirdly enough, this is soothing my hangover 🤙
The Multi-Purpose Raufoss Round beloved by armies around the world is also made in Norway. 💖
Top notch, keep it up.
Appreciate you
I'd love to see movies use more real world military tactics in battle scenes.
The helm's deep video piqued my interest, the hoth video has secured it. I can't wait to watch more of these!
Great Video, so glad this is going to be a series. I am a big military nerd as well as historical, fantasy and sci fi. Right up my alley. I really like the idea of tackling Sci-Fi and Fantasy and using different nation's military and branches. I would ask a couple questions however. Are you considering doing historical battles? And what about different time periods? Like say for example How would WW2 soldiers do against the Empire.
I also think the more math and stats you could put in the video the better. Like compare how many Inches of steel a Gustav can penetrate and compare that to the thickness of AT-AT armor. Unless of course you can't find that information, I totally understand.
I appreciate how this video was much more even as well. The Defenders had the mobility and more heavy weapons. But the Attackers had more infantry. It made me even consider the Empire winning as they had done in the film.
I greatly appreciate you listing all the strengths the Opposing Force also has. It gave great insight to the original property. The whole tactical awareness aspect of the elevated cockpit of the AT-AT is something I never thought about before.
Also I loved the Helms Deep Debrief, are you going to be doing more of them in the future?
Keep it up man.
Much appreciated mate, some good advice in there. I certainly won't limit it to cinema, but honestly I find those most interesting for now. Will probably get around to more historical battles eventually
@@coralsearc Whatever subject you decide on, I'll watch!
Love this. Great work. You really got something here and there is quite a lot of engagement in the battle logic. Do you have a Discord channel of similar where this can be properly utilized? (You could collect kick-ass data for the craziest turn based tactical war game… ever :-)
8:43 a high center of gravity makes rollover accidents more likely
Modern 101st airborne division defending Gondor against the armies of Sauron
Gondor is inevitable!
I'd actually be really curious to see multiple different ways the battle simulation could have played out, or at least see it addressed in the main video (if relevant, and if it makes sense for the pacing)
For example, if the Norwegian ambush being spotted would have significantly altered the outcome of the battle, would it have been worth doing a shorter, second battle simulation afterwards, from the point in the battle where they could have been spotted?
in any case, I'm sure it would make for good discussion material on a follow-up stream. Love the content man.
Its a good idea, the main thing stopping me is simply the amount of time it would take to animate all the extra battles/possibilities.
@coralsearc very reasonable choice. Can't blame you for that
Another top quality video from the diggers at Coral Sea Research.
"Now this is TEWTing!" - Probably young Ankin.
Honestly one day I would love to see this kind of fictional fighting on a grand LSCO fight against fictional militaries such as the USNC or maybe the Imperial Guard. Be curious to see how you could have say NATO ground and air forces defend Vraks against the Death Korps.
0:45 nice choice of song: Alfadhirhaithi by Heilung
Def recommended listen, they're a band that creates interpretations of ancient Norse music.
The big thing that jumps out to me here is that it would appear that Veers simply didn't have enough equipment to prosecute an offensive operation against the Telemark battalion. If Blizzard Force had an additional squadron or two of AT-ATs to defend the flank to the west I could see this fight playing significantly differently. The old adage that an attacker needs a 3:1 advantage to guarantee victory seems to hold up here, as the initial casualties that Veers' army took while advancing into the ice field reduced his combat capability enough that the flanking maneuver and counterattack became decisive.
I agree Veers is definitely undermanned, which comes down the challenge of crafting the scenario. I'm trying to keep true to the reference, and at the same time use the real-world unit as they exist. In hindsight I feel a combat team of 1x tank Squadron, and 1x mech squadron is probably more balanced, but then I'm tailoring ORBATS for the video instead of leaving the unit as is. It's a tricky balance, one that will fairly be an ongoing point of discussion for every video
that will be the fault of Vader or Veer not dedicate nuff force to the opration