Wine Yeast vs Champagne Yeast! Which is better?
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2019
- Wine Yeast vs Champagne Yeast! Which is better? I have railed against EC-1118 and other Champagne yeasts for a long time. Interesting though I've never tested my opinions side by side. Time to put my brew where my mouth is! We're testing K1V-1116 Wine Yeast and EC-1118 Champagne Yeast in an Elderberry Wine to find out which tastes better. They are both high alcohol yeasts with a tolerance of 18%, but I have always felt that EC-1118 and other Champagne yeasts were all about burning up brews rather than making them taste good. Yeah, I know, a lot of folks don't care about flavor, well, too bad, I do. To me, flavor is a big reason to brew for yourself, you can adjust to taste. If all you want is alcohol, well, that's why they make vodka.
Some links to items used in the Video:
* Elderberry Fruit Wine Base amzn.to/2IBzHy0
* Half gallon fermenters: amzn.to/2DgVqYR
* Airlocks amzn.to/2XnUvNV
* D47 Yeast amzn.to/2VPidSD
* Trbos, the Red Bucket of Sanitization: amzn.to/2HNiT7P
* Hydrometer: amzn.to/2UgTadI
* Self Stirring Cup: amzn.to/2TKIgZe
* Turkey Baster! amzn.to/2uyWQcc
* Graduated Cylinder amzn.to/2uztjPK
* Autosiphon amzn.to/2THLzk1
* STAR SAN! amzn.to/2YvXntb
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Hey guys! We filmed the follow up to this today! No spoilers, but... it's coming out in a week or two!
Found you guys while digging into mead making. Stayed for y'alls personalities. New sub.
Shaun, I totally agree, I noticed these videos a while back, but it is only recently I've come to appreciate all these videos contain great content! So now I keep my Notification Bell turned: "on" /Thank you for sharing
I'm really liking these comparison and test videos you have been doing lately. I can't wait to see more!
You guys are the best!!!
you guys are great ! love your videos, very educational! thanks for all the help.
I'm interested as i have been using 1118 as my goto yeast for a number of things. Bring on the next show!
As always Brian and Derica do it again and provide us with another awesome video with lots of information great job!!
Aww thanks James!
@@CitySteadingBrews my gravity tube finally came in now I gotta watch Brian's ABV videos again and again and hope I get it right lol.by the way I agree with y'all about the champagne yeast
Another great video. Btw really dig the fun background music!
Ec 1118 is all I could find, so I am using it for my first try. Thanks for your video it answers a lot of questions I didn't have to ask.
While Brian rants,(lol!❤) Derica just oozes patience and love, so sweet.🌱 We should all take a page from them🤗
Most AWESOME Wife Ever! Nice to hear you say it! 👏
I can't compete, but I can learn!🌱
FWIW, that method of champagne making allows the wine to sit on the lees from the champagne yeast for about six months to a year to give it the bready flavor you get in traditional champagnes.
Cant wait for the results, btw love your work 🍻
Thanks!
Once again nice work! Thanks for telling me you cleaned the spoon! 😂 lol
Thank you for this video. I have seen Brian complain about EC-1118 many times and I never knew why. Now that I have the explanation, I will look into trying other types of yeast. I mean, I already delved into making a bread yeast wine because of another video you guys did. I would like to say, though, that EC-1118 is still a good yeast for beginners. Why? Well, it's tough and can ferment almost anything and the temperature tolerances are easy to provide for a home brewer. Some of those wine yeasts are really persnickety about temperature variances. Anyway, love your videos! I'm on my way to watch the results video. Keep up the good work!
Lol he does... Then he uses 1116 like a troglodyte... Lol this guy obviously voted for Biden, probably lives in Oregon, and is apart of Antifa.
Can't wait for the follow up!
Really enjoying that new intro
I find ur videos very helpful since I have been interested in home brewing. Just Subscribed
Awesome, thank you!
Citric acid is not vitamin C... that would be ascorbic acid
And ascorbic acid isn't quite vitamin c either. It's merely a part of it.
@@minusstage3 He's still right. Ascorbic acid: Also called L-ascorbic and L-ascorbate, ascorbic acid is vitamin C in its purest form. It's the most bioavailable form, meaning it is readily absorbed by the body through the bloodstream. Sodium ascorbate: Pure ascorbic acid can be too acidic for some people's stomach (and cause heartburn) www.chicagotribune.com/consumer-reviews/sns-bestreviews-wellness-the-best-vitamin-c-supplement-20191206-dvsgnlilxzcbnf5txht3cua25y-story.html
Thank you so good also, and thank s for learning me how to brew stuff. 👍
You two are an adorable on-camera presence. I wish my wife shared my nerdy fascination with fermentation. BTW the "Champaign Yeast" is the only thing I use for my hardened apple cider, it's also the only thing I use it for. I always over sweeten so I get an average of 17% without having to back sweeten. I have found like you did that while drinkable it's better aged. PLEASE keep up the awesome videos they are both informative and fun. And fun is what home brew is about.
Same. I don't think I would ever use any other yeast for my cider.
I use EC-1118 to ferment things quickly mostly. I use it If I want brews to have a relatively similar taste to the original mash as well because they don’t really enhance any esters. I’ve recently used it for my spiced cider, which I really liked the taste of the original mash of. I also use it for my hydromel, which is my main around the house drinking mead, I’m not super keen on waiting for things that I really like so it does it’s job in that aspect. 😂
I started some strawberry cider this week but found I only had EC1118 (my bad planning). I wanted to use 71B to boost the "fruity esters". I was wondering if it is time for another yeast comparison video. Personally, I would be interested in EC1118, D47, 71B and RC212 (yes, I like Lalvin and you can rip the packets open). I know RD212 is a bit of an out layer being aimed for full body reds.
"In case I haven't mentioned it on camera... I have the most awsome wife ever. True story. " Yeah man! Dereca is super awsome!
I like dry white wine but would like to make dry clear high alcohol content ciders. What yeast would you recommend?
I love your guys videos thanks for teaching me how to make some killer mead!
Welcome!
I had a question if you'd be alright to try it out i was thinking if you could try kveik yeast since it actually works better in the hotter temps like i have
Should have several trees. Several trees are better. That way there can be elderberry wine, elderflower tea, and jelly. So much jelly :)
If we had space!
Great video!
So, champagne yeast is the Danny Devito of yeasts "I'm here for the scraps" LOL
K1V-1116 is actually a close relative of EC-1118, genetically speaking. There's more difference in the marketing than there is in the yeast itself. So this may be a tricky comparison.
Also, free nitrogen like DAP actually doesn't help yeast past about 9%, except inasmuch as it improves their health along the way to that point. But your entire base is fruit, so there's pretty decent nutrition already there.
All yeast are the same species, so technically they are all pretty closely related. DAP helps them convert nitrogen into a usable form, thus, it does do something, but... meh, I'd rather leave it out myself.
@@CitySteadingBrews yeah, if it's not really *needed* why add it. All things being equal, natural product is better.
I'm using ec1118 and attempting to get 20%. Maybe this explains why it's STILL bubbling. I'm at 16.8 ABV. OG 1.154, currently at 1.026. It's been bubbling for 24 days. About 4 days ago my specific gravity was 1.030, so it's still climbing slowly. I keep the house around 74°F
so i have some of my insights of my mead with different yeasts :
Champagne yeast : during the whole process of fermentation the yeast smelled like a bakery
lots of berry esters like prunes and peaches and really fine gasification
Beer yeast : during the fermentation it smelled like sour bread
less esters but a thicker gasification
Bread yest (currently fermenting) : a little bit like rotten grapes (probabbly because of the addition of the raisins)
when i originally used champagne and beer yeast i didn't add raisins but the fermentation was really slow
now with the raisins the fermentation is a lot stronger
Can’t wait to try elderberry I’m from the great northwest area have them growing wild thx
wondering with all your whiskey's what your favourite? Have you ever had bushmills? i live 5 miles away from the old distillery beautiful drink! Love the videos doing my first mead brew using your recipe. lots of love from ireland
I would say Ardbeg Uigedail is my favorite.
You got me at the mixing.
Got you? What do you mean?
“Tastes great, I just don’t trust it!” Classic!!!!
Im new to wine making and I’m trying to make a pomegranate wine so I used the K1-V1116 yeast but it doesn’t seem to be activating. I tried adding sugar to the water and yeast and made sure the temperature was at 96 Fahrenheit and it seemed to foam up a little more. Its been about 2 or 3 hours so its not really bubbling right now with the airlock but that is also what happened the last time I tried and it didn’t work. Is it because of my yeast which is not activating or the must?
Yeast can take up to three days to get active.
One thing I've read 1118 can be good for is hydromels. It doesn't give off flavors that get in the way of the light flavor of the hydromel.
I've bought Red Star Premier Blanc. I think that's champaign yeast? Would that be bad choice for mead. I've bought it for hard apple cider and high carbonation of it. Just don't want to waste honey if it's awful? I will try 71B if Premier Blanc sucks for mead?
Okay, every yeast has uses... it depends on what you like. If you prefer dry meads... that's a fine yeast for mead.
Do you use distilled water or tap water? I warm my water overnight on an old coffee maker.
Filtered tap water.
I used EC-1118 on my Cherry/Plum mead and WOW!!! Talk about gasoline!!! I still want that T-shirt that Brian's wearing
We sell the shirt in our merch store! Link in description.
Yeah Derica and the trbos her passion to Brian's science what a great combination.
I am a new mead brewer just started my first mead, I’m kind of playing by ear. I looked up many recipes and took a lot of info from your channel, you guys are awesome. My question is if I use too little yeast, will that affect my brew? Can I add more yeast late in the fermentation? I used 8 grams in a 5 gallon bucket, I should have used 10 grams I believe.
Yeast will build a colony. Only add more if you see no activity in 3 days or so. Should be fine though. Exact measurements are not necessary.
CS Brews thank you you for the advice. As of now, I’m just trusting my brew and letting it do it’s own thing.
I love that Brian knows how awesome Derica is. It brings me joy
FWIW....
In my xperience, champagne yeast in a red wine must makes a very clean product, but kinda "narrow" & simple; ageing helps.
My favorite red wine yeast is Lalvin RC 212; it's usually used w/ Pinot Noir, but I like it on anything red. Gd. mouthfeel, fruity, complexity.
Just sayin'. BTW, using an entire packet of yeast....I'm proud of ya!!
First of all I love you guys! The show's awesome! Question though...what do i do when my initial gravity reading is too high? As i can't get a numerical reading. Thanks
That means your must has too much sugar. Easy thing is add water until you can read it. What is your recipe? What yeast?
@@CitySteadingBrews its bread yeast with black cherry juice, i added 2kg of honey. In a 1 gallon carboy.
And i might have added an extra 1/3 cup of sugar..... just incase.
2kg is roughly 4 pounds.... plus blackberry plus more sugar. Yeah, add water and make that batch at least 1.5 fallons.
@@CitySteadingBrews thanks guys!
Is that more or less than US Gallon? :D
How important is PH to wine making and what does it take to check PH correctly. Thanks
It's actually quite important, but most honey/water combos and most fruits keep it in the right pH range for fermentation, that's why we don't make a big deal about it :)
I tried a balloon and it was great. Punctured 3 pinholes, and it was a perfect standup all throughout the fermentation period. The thing I liked about the balloon was that when the fermentation period ended, the balloon laid down. It was a perfect gauge.
ruclips.net/video/pB4zZuzf56k/видео.html
Interesting timing on this video for me personally. I purchased what I thought was a chocolate raspberry port wine kit I tried at Mary's homebrew store. Well it's just a dessert wine that had your dreaded champagne yeast, ec 1118. It came up as what I wanted in a search on Amazon, pictures looked extremely similar. I done got myself had, by leaping before I looked real good!! Caveat emptor!!!
We know, we have cameras everywhere :)
@@CitySteadingBrews 😜😂😂😂😜
Yeah most of my first yeasts were red star champagne yeast. SOOOO they are very strong and had to be oaked for a flavor lol
I use to like the S type airlocks but if you get an over active fermentation they are hard to clean. The three piece airlocks are really easy to clean, which is important for sanity reasons.
I just like the visual better is all!
@@CitySteadingBrews that's why I liked the S type as well. It really shows that fermentation.
Love the start
Ow lets be honest love it all
How she hasn't slapped you on camera ow yeah she is definitely a win for you and thankyou for your videos i only started brewing last year and thanks to you my friends love my mead aka aussies love alcohol :)
I just finished fermenting a Chilean Cab. Sauv. / Merlot blend wine using those 2 yeasts and it turned out amazing. In the past I've used RC 212 as recommended by Lalvin for my reds, and always with great results. This time I couldn't get the RC 212, so the place that sold me the juice gave me a blended packet of those yeasts, and I couldn't be happier. Are you sure that you weren't sampling your past wines with a bias because Lalvin doesn't recommend them for red wine? Not trying to be an ass, I'm just asking!
The results have not been posted. Watch Tuesday’s video! Any bias was only a result of bad experiences with champagne yeast.
@@CitySteadingBrews Will do. Thanks.
@@jimdent351 are you saying the champagne yeast is just as good as the 212 for making red wine?
@@planetstupider502 I'm not going to say that one is better than the other because perception of taste varies from one person to the next. Having said that, I've gotten excellent results using both. Lalvin yeast recommends using a yeast nutrient when brewing with RC 212, as they claim that off flavors could result if the yeast finds itself a little stressed. For this I use Diammonium Phosphate (commonly called DAP in the brewing community.) If you're not willing, nor do you wan't the aggravation of adding too many things to your wine then I highly recommend using 1118. I honestly feel that it would take a trained expert to notice that you MIGHT have used a Campaign yeast, and I say might because there are so many different variables that determines a wines flavor profile.
FYI, my wine making experience is limited to using only Lalvin yeast, so all bets are off if you use yeast from another manufacturer. If you haven't seen it, this channel does a follow up video where they compare the taste of 1118 and they are happy with the results. Cheers, and happy brewing!
@@jimdent351 thanks for responding. I have been using Lalvin EC 1118 for the past dozen years with great success with regards to fermentation. However I wanted to try a yeast that brings out the best in red wines. I did some research and narrowed it down to either Lalvin 212 or RED STAR Premier Rouge. Both used specifically for reds. I went with RED STAR because this retailer for some reason was charging double for Lalvin. Amazon had it at half the price but I couldn't wait for delivery. I just implemented the yeast to the crushed grapes this morning. I also added something new this year. I decided to add Pectic Enzyme 12 hours before. So there are quite a few changes this year. I'm a bit nervous because I went with a sizable batch of over 500 LBS of grapes. I just thought the 1118 makes the wine too dry and strong because it's used for champaign. You won't know unless you try. I'm crossing my fingers. CHEERS.
Will you be doing elder flower aswell as elderberry. Just an idea for the future get some more elder trees. They grow like weeds in the hedge rows over here in the uk. 🇬🇧
Perhaps. Depends on how much we collect. We'd grow more if we had space, but... they're not high on the priority list!
I pitched Champagne yeast into my stuck bochet, and it still didn't help. It stayed at pretty much 3% ABV the whole time. I think I overcooked the sugars and even the champagne yeast didn't have anything to eat.
Same here!
which of the yeast do you recommend for high alcohol but taste sweet
Those two things together are difficult to achieve. It's not just about yeast, it's about how much you add in fermentables, and if your yeast can actually ferment it.
@@CitySteadingBrews thanks for a quick response. My wine seems to not taste as good when I back sweeten it. Thank s
I’m wondering if step feeding would work. Add less fermentable sugars than the actual tolerance of the yeast. Once it.s fermented out all the sugars, add some more. Allow to ferment again. Keep doing this (and de-gassing at each step) until the maximum yeast tolerance is achieved without fermenting out all the sugars...
Might depend on the recipe though...
I have to add that this is just conjecture. Haven’t tried my hand at step feeding yet... but there.s a couple of packets of 71B making pretty eyes at me so as soon as my fermenting vessel is freed up I might give this a try... and I’m curious at what ABV the Beast will reach this way.
I have enjoyed your videos and you two are very cute mate, I've been watching for a couple of weeks and now I'm making my own hydromel. i've learned a lot but still have some doubts, on my country we dont have that kind of yeast, I use bread yeast, you used the whole pacage today, but how I can know how many grams of yeast I especificaly need per litros of mosto?
There's really no set "this much yeast to this much must". But, for a 1 gallon using bread yeast, a teaspoon or so works well. If you're doing 5 gallons, maybe 2-3 teaspoons.
These packets of yeast are 5grams each
where do I find info on the different yeasts?
ruclips.net/video/NaQWaYfxFKA/видео.html
I use EC1118 all the time. No issues. Of course now I must compare...
EC1118 for almost everything. I love it dry.
So.... I just started my first batch of mead ever... and I invested a lot of my money into such a big batch.... and I had the option of using champagne yeast or wine yeast of around the same ABV.... as in... I have both yeasts with me.... and I decided to use the champagne yeast.... now I'm very sad
Edit: it was more like "I invested a lot of love and time into this", money isnt the issue
Watch the follow up vids on this...
oof, I used champagne yeast for my first brew without realizing it. That's okay, I think I may try experimenting with different additions during bottling, so perhaps this will be an opportunity to practice backsweetening and different flavoring.
I have 10 packets of Red Star Premier Blanc left over from my beginner days(got them in bulk) and I need to use them somehow! I've been using them for more experimental ciders/apple wines recently, and I try to start with some pretty robust flavors and generally backsweeten a lot. They've been coming out pretty tasty, don't get me wrong, but I can't help but think of how much more delicious they would have been had I used a different yeast. :\
Well... not necessarily. Maybe a little different but that’s not a bad yeast to work with!
My grandfather was a pharmacist and made his own wine and champagne. In the mid '70s he was making root beer and accidentally used champagne yeast and it was a disaster! Open a bottle and half of it would foam out like a geyser! Only my brother liked it so he drank it all....
I have had some accidents with air locks and very vigorous fermentation you can probably guess what happened. It was quite foamy. All part of the learning process, well maybe.
Blow off tubes are great when things get too active.
can you guys make a video of y'all making wine out of ammoretti drink infusers?....
We don’t really use them at all, so…
It'll be nice the differences in all the elderberry wines you got going on. You've got 4 now, correct?
3 wines, one is a mead technically.
Gotcha.
Slick intro!
Yay for labeling!
Bugger. Now I'm curious. I made a Bouchett w/K1V-1116 and it turned out like a mix of a "Dirty" white wine and Champagne, which was WONDERFUL, I then made two more 2 gallon batches using EC-1118 because I'd forgotten I'd used KV1 -1116 the first time around. Well howdy. Guess I'll have some mead to drink regardless here. Live and learn I guess; and drink mead, thanks for the video folks. Rather needed this one.
Well... I wouldn’t think either is a failure and in time both should be fine for drinking.
Screw it, pour them both in the fermenter and let them fight it out.
🤓🍻
Nice intro!
Where can you buy these yeasts
You can get D47 here: amzn.to/2J0YHOw
How will you know if the yeast gets cancer or not? At least the yeast don't smoke.
Someone already made that joke, lol.
elder-flowers also make nice brew but u need just a little or it tastes bad :)
I’ve used these but only because they should have a better low temperature tolerance…
I ❤ the preemptive captions for the triggered.
I stirred my must a week into fermentation? That bad??
Not necessarily.
I have elderberries bushes all over my property out in the middle of nowhere central florida. Watered by rain and florida sunshine!!!
I should pick and dry and sell them!!!!
It seems like a very labor intensive production however...
Why not eat them or brew with them?
@@CitySteadingBrews
I do. I collect a lot of berries and use them and have friends come pick them too. But i have like a field full of bushes, theyre more bush like than tree like. Birds eat a lot of berries as well. But there are still plenty of berries
It was just a passing thought lol
"Pause for fermenter identification." Sounded like you were going to say "Pause for station identification". Well, that is what I heard in my head anyway.
Yep!
I like champagne yeast the ec 1118 was the third yeast I tried and its consistently effective and leaves the fermentation very dry wich I love,if you want better flavor add them after the fermentation is over
Adding yeast when fermentation is done won’t accomplish anything unless I misunderstood what you mean?
@@CitySteadingBrews I think he means add in flavorings/sugars (NOT more yeast) for sweetness after fermentation is complete...but yeah, like most people - he can't either be clear or type clearly.
Balloon CO2 catcher makes me laugh. I remember my father making vinegar using this method.
I enjoy the ranting!
Ooh! I know this one!
"Natural flavors" are defined as flavor additives that derive their aroma or flavour chemicals from "natural" sources such as fruit, spices, herbs, etc. that are distilled, fermented, or otherwise manipulated in a laboratory environment.
So by layman's standards they probably wouldn't be considered "natural" at all. These are lab-extracted aroma and flavor compounds that come from "natural" sources.
Capt'n Ron was here
Well, with the mileage yer getting out of the Elderberry wine concentrate stuff....I guess the 1/2 gallons will be fine. You'll have LOTS of at least similar, if not the same, product.
All the goodies are here for hard rootbeer, with an addition of 1/2lb of 120 Crystal that I felt was a good idea. Black Butte Porter Braggot will probably happen at the same time.
Not that it matters much in reality, the bottle of Star San does say 5 minutes of soaking. ;)
I still have half a gallon left.
What type of yeast is best to use???
It really depends on what you are making, honestly.
@@CitySteadingBrews for a standard Mead
There’s no right answer here. There are many yeasts, many meads and many situations to brew in and even variations in how much honey. D47 is good, 71b is good, but I have made many good meads with bread yeast too.
@@CitySteadingBrews thank you
I'm new to wine brewing and I've just made 45 litres of wine with 1118
That's a big batch to start with, best of luck :)
FIRST! Wine yeast is better!
All I think about with trbos is shift into turbo from power rangers. Watch you guys are now going to say shift into trbos.
Yes! This video needed to be made. People use EC-1118 because it is basically makes a bomb-proof ferment - the word idiot-proof comes to mind, but it also strips the flavours and can create petrol tasting esthers. I have been making meads for almost 30 years and stopped using EC-1118 - with a very few exceptions - over 20 years ago. The end product greatly improved because of it. Thanks for spreading the word!
I'm afraid you may not like the result of this one....
ELDERBERRY'S GROW EVERYWHERE IN ENGLAND :)
Congrats. Brazil 🍀
Looking for some way to use my white wine yeast.
Pretty much any mead would be a good place to use wine yeast.
City Steading i need to learn more then try it. I'm the gal who exploded a flip top bottle of combucha. Lol.
I find champagne yeast works great for my vinegar haven't tried it in a wine yet
I just found your channel, and man I have to say great advice, I'm a newbie to all this and its really a whole lot fun and science...keep up the great work
Thank you Joseph! Glad to have you :)
I knew it! Your least favorite yeast is mine also.
I’ve had pretty good luck with champagne yeast my self
Y’all are adorable
Yes you are a lucky man. However she is a lucky woman.. I believe you were ment to be together.
Oh on subject you guys tipped the scale for me getting started doing this. I threw a gallon of apple juice with over aged bread yeast I don't think I put enough sugar in it ending og was like .098 didn't have items to do sg..
What variety of elderberry?
No idea!
@@CitySteadingBrews You may need a second variety to get good pollination.
Hmm. Hope not.
@@CitySteadingBrews If you need it, just talk a neighbor into planting one....
:)
The elder ones
Dude, you're a scream, but the missus is fricken adorable!
You do understand, you are awesome... right?
We’re just homebrewers :)