Why Andy Roddick Never Put A Volley Away
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- Опубликовано: 3 янв 2019
- How has the volley changed over the years? Modern day players have adapted to deflect and defuse pace better, but it contradicts the proper body mechanics required to generate pace. We're going to look at both ends of the spectrum to give you all the tools.
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Your instruction for stepping up into a volley is exactly what Johnny Mac was doing back in the day to perfection. Not driving his energy into the ground. Very interesting. Good Job.
Coaches hate you, but we love you!
Wooden racquets are actually awesome for volleys. Their weight plows through a hard shot sending it back faster than modern racquets.
I love watching Mac and Stefan Edberg hit volleys. How they approach the net w confidence and aggression. The main reason not to many good volliers today is nobody uses it much. But it works to sudue the rythmn of a baseliner wonderfully even today. Look how Dustin Brown destroyed Rafa at Wimbledon with constant pressure on the volley. Rafa was completely befuddled because he lost his rythmn on his groundstrokes and never hit the same ball twice and pressured. It would work today.
Just wanted to comment to say thanks ! You impart a lot of sense in your videos , it’s great advice and you never get boring to watch
In our senior doubles, there are lots of floaters or backspin floaters, often too slow for the senses. Rising to the ball "instinctively" should help putting the ball away, rather than blowing it! Elevate and hit, not flat-footed, is Steven's point. Thanks for reminders.
The wide base explanation you provided has allowed us to further understand why Djokovic is extremely good at absorbing and redirecting pace.
Love this, love hearing coaches who aren’t afraid to say what’s actually happening. Many coaches are stuck to saying the same advice like “stay low” or “don’t swing on the volley” yes these pieces of advice are good but there are times and places to not do those things as well. Great video!
Agreed.. most things are situational!
Regardless of varying opinions, the rising at contact concept is already helping my volleys, low mid or high. This rising movement combines with leaning into the shot for forward motion, to hit more penetrating shots. As a shorter guy (70+), this seems quite effective, as my feet are no longer stuck to the ground, freeing the entire body movement. I like approaching net whenever I can, including upon serve. Winning many more points, already. Thanks Steven.
(2:23) Andy Roddick discussion
(4:45) Rising up for ground strokes
(12:10) Rising for volleys
(18:03) Punish high volleys
been a long time lurker on ur vids. thanks so much. really helping me!
We lift up on volleys to connect the hitting arm with big back muscles, latissimus dorsi. Good observation, good video. Thanks.
Very informative and appreciate your advice, instructions then showing us how you apply. Great for someone like me who's making a return to tennis.
Game changing gold nugget-like several of your videos on here coach Steven! Fantastic!!!
great vid, very easy to understand and implement...
Awesome video and great insight.
Another amazing video! Thank you so much!!!!
Thank you so much. That was very helpful
Super video. It takes a good understanding of the game to even realize the importance of this topic, let alone elaborate on it.
Excellent tips from you. Ty.
I didn't quite realize when you switched from Roddick to "stay low", for with one eye I'm watching the ladies final RG19, but that's very useful and helpful stuff. Thank you. 👍🤗
You are amazing! Each video is like a real lesson.
I think a good rule for when to rise is at the moment your racket head begins to go down. Great concept , great explanation, great video.
Btw he only missed the volley in 2009 Wimbledon Finals that could have changed his career.
@heuristik the you would have won a ton of money if federer beat a seasoned veteran like roddick in 5 sets after being down 2 sets to love.
@heuristik the starting from scratch is way different than starting from when youre about to lose. on average only around 5 percent of players who lose the first 2 sets come back to win the match. it would have been very unlikely for federer to win if roddick hadnt thrown all those balls out in the tie break but not impossible
Not gonna lie, 100% agree lol
@heuristik the Well the arguement is that even after that massive disapointment in the 2nd set Roddick still came back to win the 4th set 6-3 and he didn't get broken until the last game of the match. Had he won the 2nd set naturally you'd assume he'd still be strong enough to close it out in 4 sets.
h
Dude - like the push hands tricks; gr8 segway to better volley structure...!
Great video! Nice sense of respect for both the old and modern game. I also like how you’re just trying to use what works as opposed to some strict sense of tennis ideology. 😝👍
Steven is goddamn genius, his career is gonna take off. GOAT
It's more important to note how much wooden rackets hindered ground strokes. Agassi said that modern rackets helped returners and counter punchers more than servers. Guys can just murder groundstrokes from so many positions and even worse for guys at the net, put SO much action and shape on the ball. Guys simply have to volley tougher balls. And considering the compact, more methodical nature of a volley, the older smaller frames didn't matter as much as on groundstrokes, where today guys generate such crazy racket head speeds and generate angular momentum. Also, worth mentioning, back when serve and volley was at its peak, 3 then 2 of the Slams were on grass. And not like today's grass, but more inconsistent, slicker, less durable grass. Taking the ball before the bounce was a really good play. Today's surfaces take that out of the equation. I didn't watch the whole video but using Roddick to make this point is kind of misleading. He wasn't a great volleyer. You could show plenty of better volleyers like the Bryan Brothers, Stepanek, Haas, Federer, Henman, Rafter, etc, to suggest the art of volleying is still well and alive today.
Agree with this. Roddick just didn't have the talent, court sense or technique to be a great volleyer. It has become harder to dominate at net but I still think it's possible in the men's pro game. Look at Mischa Zverev whose made a very solid career of it. Pete Sampras, Stefan Edberg, or Pat Rafter would still be great pros today if in their prime, and that does not account for how their techniques would have evolved if they had been born 20 years later. Quick aside, i forget the match but going back aways, there was a Sampras match where Todd Martin joined the announcers booth, and I vividly recall him saying that "you have no idea how firm Pete's first volley is." This is something that doesn't translate well to TV but absolutely makes a difference - great volleyers really knifed their volleys and I always felt Roddick's kind of floated.
Don't know what you're trying to get at, but he didn't say volleying is dead today. His use of Roddick for illustration is just right to make the point that volleying a soft ball and fastball is different.
Excellent!
There's a big factor which is racquets did get better and lighter providing faster swings and generating more spin, which vastly helped the opponent's passing shots. Not easy to do passing shots with flatter shots and more conservative grips.
I think it is not just rising; but rising and pushing forward. As the kinetic chain from the ankle can't just push laterally; you end up pushing diagonally upward and forward. That way you have the entire mass of your body moving into the ball at the strike point. That said, another great lesson. Learnt a lot from you. Even at 55!
I think "forward" is the key. You don't want to stop just prior to contact because stopping the legs can cause the upper body to drop down. I've never heard a pro teach jump up into a volley unless it was necessary to reach a high contact point. I have taken lessons from several guys who played high level collegiate tennis and ranked in top 1,000 and not once have I ever heard "jump" or even lift up on a volley. I have taken dozens of drills from a guy once ranked around 700 and even played a few doubles practice matches against him and he doesn't jump and he has one of the best volleys I've ever played against. He has never taught Jump or lift in relation to a volley.
Agreed. I didn't use the word jump. And that wasn't what I meant.
Keep making videos, too good.
I wish I learned this in high school, awesome video
Andy had an amazing career considering he runs like Herman Munster in a game that requires sublime speed of foot.
Lol! "Lilly!!!"
I really like the way you think about techniques imstead of applying.dogma. I find myself thinking about many of the same technique and biomechanical issues as you. I reckon you're really gettimg undrrneath a lot of these and thank you I think you're getting inside of it. The rising for power and almost pushing backwards, so well observed, but princuples of rotation apply here in my thoughts, ie the back leg initiating the hips, rather than the 'rising up' itself. And wide stance, can still just rotate for power as you showed. Wide stance, just lift your front foot, and you will feel that power forward for sure with COG transfer off planted back foot, transfer it back onto an extending front leg, and that will initiate the hips for sure, for rotation. Anyway just another set of thoughts - I like how ypu look for the effective, rather than the 'correct '. Thanks mate.
15 points I’m not sure what you are working on for a vid atm but I would appreciate one comparing Federer and Pistol Pete “The Heat” Sampras... However, I will still watch whatever you post. Thanks, this is a useful video that I’ve never heard about before.
Appreciate you watching and the suggestion! Plenty of material I still need to cover, but curious what aspects in particular you’d like to see? Something more technique based or play style? There’s a lot there for sure.
15 Points Of Tennis I am very glad you are interested. More captivating to view would be play style for me (besides obvious stuff, how Pete served and volleyed) . However, their technique would also be intriguing. I would rather see a greater focus on Pete for this because Roger has drastically over the years, and it wouldn’t be comparable. Rather, I am looking for a comparison of Early Federer, possibly how he learned from Pete. I should note that technique created their play styles, Pete being more accustomed to fast courts. In the end, it is your video and comparatively I know nothing about making one. I am only speaking from a viewer’s perspective. Thanks again, looking forward to the next upload.
Do a comparison of Sampras, Edberg, Becker, and Rafter.
1. Volley contact point,best at eyes level. 2. Body rises more quickly than goes down, for high ball, you can raise body/racket . Low volley,stay low.3 lower your body, many low volley balls become normal/high volley. High volley is easier than low volley.
So interesting! I’ll check this out!❤️
What you should keep in mind as well is that rackets have grown stronger so it is harder to volley when your opponents gives you a super hard passing shot. Back in the day rackets weren’t that great so when an opponent hits an approach, they can come in with a bit more safety since they don’t have to worry about dealing with a super hard/spinning shot coming back at them.
Great video thanks. Watch the 1991US open final between Stefan Edberg vs Jim Courier for a masterclass in serve & volley.
McEnroe's game was always my favorite.
Motion on the X and Y axis are independent of each other. The rise up on groundstrokes is a consequence of the explosive leg force starting the kinetic chain. What should be focused on is moving your weight forward and behind the ball. This is for both volleys and groundstrokes. In your counter punch motion, you completely lock out your hips so it is all arms and relying on the other players' force. If you drive with legs and torso while staying low you can generate more power on counterpunches and your elbows will thank you. As for the volleys you want to flow through them, not stomping or jumping. No shot in tennis should be hit completely still, there is a flow to the game.
The problem most people have with the volley is that they use the arm too independently from the body, and they don't keep a wide base, generally the lower the ball the wider the base to lower your center of gravity. The wrist has a natural amount of flex, as long as your not gripping the racket too tightly, although I've noticed this feel seem much easier to grasp on the forehand side, most likely due to the fact it's most people's dominant arm. Go out and practice this, you can feel what I'm referring too.
I have found the perfect technique for the volley, and my volleys POP!! Keeping one's arm stationary, one turns a quarter shoulder turn and back. Works perfectly every time for a typical standard volley... No punch and hit nonsense and one's body is ALWAYS in balance and stable. One hits the volley using the Big muscles and the core. I;m tellin ya, it works!!
BTW, Mac hits the same way, virtually every time hitting the ball on contact between his shoulders and back using about a quarter shoulder turn and NO flailing..... a la Roddick. God, I hated Roddick on the tennis court, from his strokes to his attitude, lol.
@ 13:32-13:35 you look like JMac hitting volleys!!! Nice!
its really simple if you get low or step into a volley you are hitting under the ball, which will cause the ball to float and rise. if you are jumping to hit a volley you are on top of the ball which allows you to hit the ball into the ground when you rise the racket also rise but the point of contact is on top of the ball, which will cause the ball to penetrate the court, if you are stepping into the ground the racket also gets lower causing the point of contact to be under the ball making it float up.
if you want to get a little better at volley add some weight tape to your racket this will make it more stable, although it wont replace good techniques.
this jumping volley is only good for put away volleys, most passing shots wont come to you very high it will most likely be dipping down at your feet so the stepping in volley will most likely be your go to anyway. different tools fr different situation, knowing when to use which one is the trick.
But you can't hit down on a volley if the ball is below the net at the contact point.
"how to use power and how to diffuse power, become like water my friend"
Good one.. I’d love to do a there’s no such thing as style video at some point!
You always bring *great* food for thought! (but I feel that the video didn't need to be 25 minutes long.)
Yeah like the video title is about volleys but the first half of the video isn't backhands
Agreed. I change the play speed to 2.0 and cut the watch time in half. Allows me to quickly explore and find sections of interest to then review at regular or even slow speed.
Interesting discussion. After thinking about this, the hopping in volleys during the wooden racket era is maybe due to the poorer rackets they used. What I mean is that the best technique is to volley at chest height to get the most power in the volley so you want to hop to get to high balls. The modern rackets are a much better technology and so in singles you don’t have to adhere to this principle as much. Also, the balls have more pace and so there is less time to hop. In doubles where the volley is vital and used more than 50% of the shots, you want to hop to get the best volley if you have time. I’m not sure but I think most of hopping is instinctual and not needed to be coached.
Good points! Spot on w the racquets. In my experience coaching, players who are used to diffusing pace have a hard time adjusting to creating pace, not just volley but groundstrokes as well.
@@15PointsOfTennis but best volleys are about taking off pace, not creating pace....
The most proficient volleyers seem to have 1 thing in common , a one handed backhand . McEnroe , Federer Edberg , Sampras , Navratilova just to name a few . With the exception of Jimmy Connors , I don’t recall a good volleyer that had a two handed backhand .
Great video. I never realized this. Thank you so much. I have a lot of trouble putting volleys away and they tend to float.
Nice video. A lot of good information. Roddick cant put a volley away because his approach shot is not deep enough and it doesnt have the penetrating effect to cause his opponent to hit up at the ball. Also, his footwork after his serve and his anticipation for passing shot is sub par. He doesnt serve and volley or approach the net often enough so when he needs those skills the most, he fails. Had he played more doubles or worked on serve volley/ approach shot and volley on lower ranked players, he would have done better against Federer in wimbledon or uso. He can practice all he wants but performing in match is where it counts. Thanks for the video.
i suck at volleys. like literally SUCK! but imma try this one ..to think up as im always thinking down when im at the net/
Thx for watching.. Lmk how it goes! Idk your exact situation but IMO if you’re just learning the volley focus on upper body technique first, as this vid references lower body fundamentals.
IMHO, in the demos where you rise up to hit the volley, you're actually using more wrist with a bigger racquet take back. In those volleys, you're getting more power from wrist/forearm power than from rising up. The problem with adding more "swing" to your volley is that it will not be reliable when faced with faster shots or when under pressure. To generate more pace, you do use your legs -- not to rise up but to move forward into and through the ball, while continuing to stay low
yup!
how come he or you hit your forehand with two hands? do you have an injury? or 2 double back hands?
I’ll explain in a separate video but it’s really consistent and easy to tune, btw my hands don’t switch so it’s a two handed forehand.
Nowadays, because of how strong the racket is and how easily it is to get passed or have a shot placed right at your feet when you come in to volley, most people stay back. It is the smarter thing to do. However, this has led to most people just practicing baseline instead of volleying which hurts the players as well as they might not get the volley down down since they barely use it and it seems like a waste to practice. Also, getting consistent volley practice is much harder than just rallying unless you have a ball machine. And one more thing. Since the volley isn’t used that much in games, it almost goes into the category of hitting a tweeter in the match. You may know how to do it, but since ur not playing it regularly in the match, you aren’t comfortable and therefore will probably mess up. and we all have seen in tennis what happens when you don’t hit a good volley. You get straight up passed or the ball is placed at your feet, this makes players stay back more and it is jut a vicious cycle making the volley-style of play regress more and more.
With all this being said I still believe one should learn how to volley correctly as it is possible to hit amazing volleys with the rackets today. just get the technique down and know when to come in and u should be good. Easier said than done, but yea.
Dayum this is some ninja kobe shit
Andy Roddick don't use his leg drive when he hit volley. is it correct? I am not sure. I need summary of this video. Thanks for interesting video.
On the rising volley are you still loading on the outside leg?
Yes
whats your stick of choice?
Yonex V Core 98 as of late
The shortcut to this concept is to hit the forehand volley off of the right foot, then land on the left foot...hit the backhand volley off of the left foot and land on the right foot. This should add stability and should prevent you from using your arm to generate false power. Thoughts?
I like it. Likewise, I tell students to make contact in the air and feel the ankle snap into the shot so they’re rising instead of falling when creating pace. Was hoping the rising vs low center of gravity concept could be translated on all strokes.
Also, you showed Roddick hit a great deep ball to the right and he put his opponent in trouble. But, he did not close and anticipate the next shot to finish the play.
You've take a lot of criticism for this video, but there are a few points that make your video exceptional.
1. One is the wider (which also means you are going to be lower) stance when absorbing a hard shot or powerful serve.
2. Another is not starting with a super-wide stance and not trying to unnaturally "stay low" when hitting for power. Trying to stay low (makes it kind of a scoot/shuffle forward action) does, indeed, reduce the power and hurt rhythm of a strong shot where you step into the shot from a less-wide (but still low) initial stance. Your critics need to ask themselves how those pros end up a foot off the ground on their powerful groundstrokes if there isn't any "up"?
3. The rise may be somewhat overemphasized in your video vs. stepping into the shot for groundstrokes, but there isn't much room/time to be stepping forward for power faced with an extremely fast jamming return at your feet or sharp body-shot volley -- so the "rise" idea provides the energy we need. McEnroe always seemed to be "popping up" with the quick volleys (and with that uncannily tough backhand he had on groundstrokes) -- and that may be a key to why those McEnroe volleys were so incredibly sharp despite his lack of physicality.
4. For my low level of tennis (now that I am 70), being able to easily put some "put away oomph" into floater super soft net exchanges is a greatly appreciated.
5. I would have liked to have had your advice to balance out the "stay low" dogma years ago.
The pros end up off the ground on their powerful groundstrokes because they're generating all that momentum upwards from their rotation and upwards trajectory of their swing, carrying the body up naturally. The only times they're focusing on really jumping up into a shot is when they need to get that height for the ball to align with their optimal strike zone.
Actually, you are stepping into the shot that generates power 😀
Agreed.. nothing wrong w the step but for demo purposes I should have been more cognizant to demo taking too big a step.. too big a step forces the player to stay low, which IMO is only good for certain scenarios. Good observation!
Also, the idea of hitting on the rise 😀
My video for "Rising at contact" for my two-hand backhand, which is hit fairly flat with topspin and max velocity low over the net. Most topspin is imparted by rising at contact, taking the ball higher than customary two-handers. Surprised I never tried applying rising concept for volleys. ruclips.net/video/NRw4a3ANKfg/видео.html (when a senior 68) and a shorter practice clip: ruclips.net/video/xVWttM25RUM/видео.html
super infromative content
I'm going to disagree with the focus on "rising up" to create power on the grounds strokes. Power is created through racket head speed. The faster your racket is moving, the harder the contact with the ball, which transfers more energy into the ball and creates more pace. Simply exploding upwards does not create more racket head speed. Core rotation and racket lag allow the racket to maximize acceleration within a short space (watch Federer's forehand in slow motion). The reason you don't get racket head acceleration (power) when you "sit on the ball" is because staying lower hinders your ability rotate through your shot. Getting low helps to ensure getting under the ball, exploding upwards out of the coiled position allows for the core to rotate which pulls the racket forward and through your shot.
Was just gonna say exactly this. "Rising up" is more about adding topspin or finding an aggressive contact point, but it is rotation that generates power on groundstrokes. A wide base simply doesn't allow you to rotate.
I've always said this but the technical gurus have disagreed with me. I recall a Sports Illustrated magazine article comparing McEnroe to a ballerina back around 1980ish. And what are ballerinas known for? hmmmmm....
"The Student"?! How come you never mention him by name? You don't refer to yourself as "The Teacher". Are you worried about being upstaged? (He _IS_ pretty charismatic.) And it's not like he's been in EVERY VIDEO YOU HAVE EVER CREATED. Just who is this mysterious sidekick of yours, this Sancho Panza to your Don Quixote, as you tilt (your racket face) at tennis windmills? Or are they giants? They _might_ be... [OBSCURE REFERENCE]
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE your channel! You are, hands down, THE BEST- if not only - Teacher of Intricacies of the Advanced Game. I love your conversational style, your production value is second to none (well okay, there's RacketFlex), but your content is truly unique - yet ironically much sought after. Basically, YOU DA MAN.
But why no second? Every hero needs a trusty sidekick. Every magician needs a sexy assistant (Whoa, wait a minute!). He must be more than just the nameless (and apparently joyless) automaton who sullenly feeds you balls as you hog the limelight and demonstrate incorrect (read: OUR) technique. Who is he?
McEnroe volleyed superbly but his technique was unorthodox, even for that time. Better to study Edberg (or Stich or Becker), who surpassed McEnroe in volleying technique and skills. I'm pretty sure Edberg did not "jump" at his volleys.
I think McEnroe's technique was perfect.
I like your videos but on this one I lost you before you got to the main purpose. I think you give a lot of detail but I would like to see shorter videos more to the actual demonstration of the skill or technique. BTW I noticed Pacific Tennis. Are you located near Pacific University?
I think Roddick was not playing volley but rather a slice volley which he was trying to hit
Yeah.. A lot of players nowadays use slice volley for everything including putaways
I disagree with a lot of what you teach. If you are hitting a high volley, you may have upward movement to get to the high contact point. But, for a floating volley that I can reach without jumping, I can hit a very firm volley with more than sufficient power simply by using the legs to drive through the volley. If you watch Cash and Edberg, they do not jump at volleys. Yes, McEnroe would have a minor jump at times but even he hit the vast majority of his volleys without jumping. I have played practice matches and taking drills with a former ATP pro who played Pat Cash, and he has never told anyone to jump at a volley. For power, use the legs to drive forward and the follow through can be a bit longer. You don't want to stop suddenly either as stopping can cause the upper body to go downward. I think it is more correct to move through the volley and stay balance instead of stopping and dropping the upper body. Watch video of Pat Cash and Edberg and you see movement forward and balanced upper body but near zero jumping UNLESS they must go up to get a high ball.
What’s a volley I am a total noob I just fine tennis cool and tactical.
You showed Roddick hit a short ball with less angle, so his opponent was able to return the shot.
Another thing to note is how awful his approach shot was. I had a coach tell me your volleys are only as good as your approach shot. Roddick would loop his approach with topspin into the opponents strike zone. Or of course his signature slow backhand slice down the line, get passed cross court and put his head down and say “yup”
_WELL, WE'RE STILL WAITING_ Inquiring minds what to know: just WHO is "The Student"?! Right now, throughout this great State of Confusion, there is a huge, underground, grassroots movement afoot as his popularity swells to even new presidential-candidate-shoo-in heights!
The Beatles might have been bigger than Jesus, but this kid is bigger than HAY-SEUSS! Who is he, what does he do, who does he rep for, who is he dating, we want names; what are his upcoming movie and television appearances, show us his multimillion-dollar beach house in Malibu! *COME ON MAN, GET JIGGY WITH IT!*
You're gonna need to quell this raging forest fire of burning curiosity, this killer twister of who's his sister? This roiling tsunami of who's his mommy? I'm begging you, get out in front of this while you still can! I implore you, do a whole 20-minute episode dedicated ENTIRELY to this mysterious Mo Fine in tennis shorts. Make it a Pay-Per-View -event- nay, EXTRAVAGANZA!
OR...
Just print his name somewhere in the comment section, that'll prob'ly do it.
Get to the fucking point!
So you know something that the top PROFESSIONAL players in the world don't? What a joke.