I don’t know, I’ve been following Jesus for over 40 years. I’ve seen ‘tools’ come and go. One thing I wish I had focused on more was God’s Word. I have a new appreciation for the power of His word in my life. That is never debated or questioned as necessary, healthy and good! Thanks guys
As a counselor in training, who is in my final two courses and working within an internship, I have never done for myself or seen sozo applied. I have as a Christian always used what I have learned, and experienced through my own healing through my time with the Holy Spirit, courses, and Christian and non-christian therapeutic and psychological theories I have had alot of inner healing, and had expulsion while walking this process out with my husband and in my own prayer time with God , also from what Holy Spirit has revealed. I have done the work for myself and continue to do so. I spend time with other believers and have walked with them to seek the Holy Spirit for what He reveals as what should be addressed and also with the training I have submitted to. Several have experienced freedom, shift in thinking, deliverance, joy, peace, etc, after time spent within their time of counseling.
*Demonstrating* the Book of Acts church reality would be a much more effective way of fulfilling Christs mission than publicly discussing other ministries and leaders.
Throughout my 35 year walk I have often seen my heart as a hallway of doors. Early on there were many closed doors and some I vehemently guarded and refused entry to. I could see myself blocking the door and refusing to let Jesus in. As I began to heal over time, more doors were opened and the rooms were filled with light. In 2020 I began having a reoccurring dream which included the hall of doors. Each time I have the dream (which is a house I am moving through) it’s the same place physically but as I move through the house, it is changed. What began as a house cluttered and impassable is now orderly and easier to move in. I see it as a sort of progress report from the LORD to encourage me.
When I first was a SOZO minister, the "rules" were super loose for us, and we were supposed to always be guided by the Holy Spirit. People had amazing encounters with God, many deliverances, and emotional wounds healed (including myself) After a SOZO summit, our leader suddenly became much stricter with the rules and usage of the tools as if it were the tools that healed and delivered people instead of God. We also got a time restriction. I left the SOZO Team because I felt like I didn't have the freedom to follow the Holy Spirit's guide anymore. However, a few months later when I went deeper into deliverance and into tesearching New Age practices, I realized that some ministers always used the tool by saying "imagine XYZ" instead of "ask the Holy Spirit if He can show you a door / a memory /..." and by that using visualization - a new age practice. Now, when someone tells me they are going to receive a SOZO, I recommend them to not "imagine", but always aal the Holy Spirit, since some ministers don't realize visualization a New Age practice
That makes so much sense with my experience. A friend of mine is an old school Sozo lady, and offered to walk me through a session once (I didn't know anything about it at the time). To me, it was just a really great guided prayer experience. I expressed my worries, and she provided questions for me to bring to the Lord that I hadn't thought to ask before. There was no imagining. Then I read other peoples' experiences and it's so completely different from mine.
I have done Sozo back in 2016 twice, and nothing happens. Nothing gets healed. I think I question it because it’s almost like they believe that this formulated ritual will work every time. God cannot be formulated in my opinion. Yes Jesus does heal us from the inside, but the formula doesn’t have some special anointing to work in this manner. I think it’s unbiblical for sure.
I agree. I don't think we need programs. We just need to be mature in The Spirit and learn to hear from God. He will lead and guide us as needed, including for our hurts. I know two people who went through. 1, got nothing out of it, and another did. The one that did is a bit more mature in The Spirit and I think that could be why she got more out of it. It all comes down to The Spirit. My healings personally have come from repenting idols. There are so many idols. We are made to worship. We worship God or something else. Every,single day. Getting a renewed mind from the days I was not saved... and seeing how disordered my affections have been and placing them on Christ alone. That's been the healing. Learning how to rightly repent and how to worship God completely.
Sozo is totally unbiblical and dangerous. And yes, I have experienced it because a church I used to attend wanted to start it as a ministry. It set off alarm bells on so many levels
@ it was pretty well balanced! It’s difficult for me because with so much demonic stuff coming out of bethel (we know a lot of former BSSM students and almost all of them are living in sexual sin or have some other major character issue😭) it’s easy to want to throw the baby out with the bath water just for the sake of being safe but I know it’s not necessarily the answer. I had listened to one a couple months ago from Melissa Daughtry that I think was a bit more in depth but I think she leans more cessationist (I don’t know this! I am just assuming off of some comments she’s made). One thing the interview she had did point out that I didn’t think of is that sozo often requires you to make up a memory which is kinda questionable. Her video is worth watching too I think!
A charismatic with 25 years of prayer ministry here. Read a book or two on it , and then received a session. While I do inner healing prayer ministry, I think there are portions of Sozo which are a “bridge too far”. I prefer the Wimber model (Orbis Ministries) and Transformation Prayer Ministry (Ed Smith).
Have you read inner healing books from PRMI (Presbyterian Reform Ministries International)? If so, could you share your thoughts from someone who ministers inner healing.
I believe in inner healing prayer. However, this method requires you to imagine (or picture) Jesus in the room with you, which can become awkward and put a person on the spot. It's easy to feel pressure to see an image of Jesus and imagine his response to your situation. Jesus is always opposed to and hurt by your abuse. But, I like the fact that the Holy Spirit can bring things to the surface that need to be healed.
I have aphantasia and couldn't do it. I felt pressured to lie about not being able to see a scenario. It was the aphantasia which I did not know it at the time. There wasn't suddenly a problem with me not trying hard enough and it ended up being spiritualised as blindness. It was just awkward and unhelpful.
This is one of the common criticisms of Theophostic prayer ministry that Sozo employs. The fact that you are guided by a counsellor to see things goes into the arena of suggestibility, implanting false memory and manufacturing ‘spiritual’ experiences. Put plainly, if the person would not have the experience without a memory manipulation formula, should we credit it to God - even if helpful as a reframing tool that serves to reinstate peoples autonomy and sense of will and supportedness in the midst of a traumatic memory? The other issues come down to importing faulty theologic beliefs or concepts about God into experiences and centring ones experience and perception of God based on a (tempered with) traumatic experience. Great topic to dig into with christian trauma experts in my opinion.
Amen BUT there is nothing we need to do for the inner work of the Holy Spirit to be accomplished. It’s not because of what we do but because of what he’s done and is doing.
The person doing the session with me was very patient and didnt get training from Bethel but it was as you described. It was overall beneficial but I didn't see Jesus in the room either. Mixed deal for me I am open but cautious.
Simply put witchcraft and a sin. We can't manifest spiritual experiences. Genuine ones are "as The Spirit Wills." @christianwoudenberg3393 Believe it or not, I've had several visions of an image of Jesus. (The real Jesus, idk?) ... so I'm not against that fruition of that, I just dont find it wise to summon a particular spiritual instance. God deep with God, take your cares and life to Him. Just see where He leads.
Sozo now says I have an issue with the Holy Spirit when in reality, I just had an issue with my mom. It created an issue with the Spirit that wasnt originally there
I'm sorry you experienced this. I have seen the same thing. Unfortunately, I saw it with a young girl, age 14. She was convinced that God told her she had a problem with her dad-but she didn’t have a problem. But she was 14, and when God speaks, you have to believe Him. She ended up believing a lie and damaging her healthy relationship with her father because 'God told her' she didn’t.
@TheRemnantRadio I'm sry I want to clarify. I didn't go to Sozo but wanted to point an issue with with the practice but ran out of room in comment box. I appreciate you all and the remnant radio ministry. Thank you for what you do!
It was helpful to read others comments that sozo didn't really do much for them. It didn't me either, but have felt that 'less than' feeling because i couldn't connect that way. I do agree with someone' else's comment that it comes out of John and Paul' Sanford's work. Their teachings have been a great blessing at times to my life. Also I have noticed over the years that when the Holy Spirit gives something new that it is fresh and alive and people are dependent on the Holy Spirit but then we become familiar with it and don't seem to need the Holy Spirit anymore and that is when it begins to become empty and as we become even more familiar we tend to slide into the attitude where we don't need the Holy Spirit anymore and we move into religion . And that is dead legalism, and it kills, destroys and hurts people. Like maybe Calvin had something in the beginning but now it is just bullying and entitlement for the few. (My opinion.)
Interesting objecrive description of solo in theory. The problem is the people that practice it and how they condemn you when you don’t get healed and start saying you have hidden sins that you don’t remember más God is not revealing to them, and the hours of trying to get information out of you, etc. it can get dangerous and it’s similar to the Healing rooms. You can’t compare sozo to a real trauma session like EMDR.
I am against inner healing but all for deliverance. Inner healing has new age in it and it all started to get popular in this country by a book called Transformation of the Inner Man. Very new age, I bought it once and couldn't read it, then later did some investigation and Agnes Sanford who was the mentor of the authors, was really into the occult. Picturing Jesus in a situation of your past is visualization, and opening yourself up to a false Jesus.
Yup, she's known as the mother of inner healing. Here's a quote from Sanfords book "the healing light" "The second step is to turn it on, by some such prayer as this “Heavenly Father, please increase in me at this time Your life-giving power.” Or if we do not know this outside life as our Heavenly Father, we can simply say “Whoever you are - whatever you are - come into me now!” Her mentor was Morton Kelsey, who ascribed to Carl Yung. Connect the dots. It's all esoteric pagan mysticism. Everything that comes out of Bethel is. Including Sozo.
This is such an interesting thing that you mention. I’m interested to learn more but I would love to share this story but a very condensed version. I know someone who came to Jesus in the 1990’s…who had no relationship with God and the encounter they had with the Lord - he asked God where has he been all his life and the Lord did walk him through some major painful moments and showed him where he had been. This person was riding in the back of a bus down a mountain after fighting California fires. There was no minister. There was no exposure to a teaching like this. It was just soveriegn. So when I read comment saying that those types of “return to your memory” types of ministry is New Age, I wonder (genuinely) if we have a misconception. I wonder if the reality is that yes, the Lord has been present with everyone of us and would show us if we asked. I wonder if we can’t just say that that type of thing doesn’t belong to the New Age practices but maybe that something was counterfeited that actually belongs to the Lord. Now I don’t think every practice can be held in that regard but just wanted to put this out there. :) thanks for sharing and also reading.
Great conversation. I underwent a Sozo and i recognize the same pros and cons. There are some things what are off. I must say, God blessed it really for me. I had a great time and was hugely encouraged
Having been immersed in the inner healing philosophy/ministry of John Loren Sandford, Jungian psychology and thought to the likes of Robert Bly and John Eldredge…and realizing many here will disagree with a few of those too, I also went thru a Sozo thing way back in the day and it’s truly pointless. It’s some serious charismatic fast food and formulaic. Just my experience. Love the stuff you guys are diving into!! Thank you
I've always seen the Father, Son and Spirit as three different "persons". In a mysterious way, they are all indeed ONE, but I can also honestly say that I have a unique relationship with all three almost independently. They do indeed have unique personalities! I can see how you can get totally weird about this for sure, but I have a firm understanding of Scripture. I enjoy all three persons of the God-Head.
Manypeople myself included started withJesus as the door but struggled withFather God or Holy Spirit. Its quite normal and healing process happens overtime as God directs.
I am very surprised you are so positive about Sozo, although maybe my experience was uniquely bad. I started the process once 2 years ago and did not finish it by choice. First, I found a lot of "repeat after me"s where there was no room to ask questions about the unclear meanings of several of the supposed declarations of truth. Second, I think that there was a ton of assumptions built into their flowchart of "if they say this, then do that" and no room whatsoever to ask questions midstream about the process. I know because of the unique life I've led I tend to be an outlier in the sense that "if they say A, there's a 95% chance that B is true so assume B is true" will lead to a MUCH higher that 5% chance of error. I know early on they asked about my relationship with my father and I asked "at what age?" since it changed dramatically with my mom developing a brain tumor and dying then my dad becoming an alcoholic. Even though they said age 8, soon before everything "hit the fan", and I thought I gave a totally normal " loved and respected but also feared" answer for a kid in 1967, I thought they totally shamed me because I didn't totally give some cream puff "I just felt totally safe and loved in the arms of my Dada" response. Really, I just felt like I was being yelled at the whole time and it was horrible. At one point because of some response they accused me of having a religious spirit and told me to repeat after them that there was nothing good whatsoever about having a religious spirit. But of course I couldn't break the flow and ask questions about why they said that. They were probably just following a flow chart anyways. It was horrible. I soon got out. Providentially, I just heard Rowntree quote "as Sozo ministers our job is never to judge how a person thinks, sees or feels God". I didn't feel that way at all. People have encouraged me to try again. Are you really saying there's potential value consistent with biblical Christianity in this? My life is incredibly painful and difficult and I could use any relief God would bring, but without outside encouragement I have no faith Sozo isn't garbage. And what about the many YT testimonies of people claiming to have been hurt by it?
Well, I wouldn't say we were positive toward Sozo. We endorse the emphasis on repentance, renewing the mind, and healing emotional wounds-these are deeply biblical practices that we believe are essential to inner healing. We appreciate that Sozo seeks to address the whole person by helping people identify and replace lies with God’s truth. However, we also have significant concerns about their methods, especially the “Father Ladder,” which suggests that earthly family dynamics impact our relationships with the members of the Trinity. To us, this concept is unstable, unbiblical, and potentially even dangerous, as it risks dividing the Trinity in ways that could lead to a kind of “functional tritheism.” Additionally, while Sozo promotes inner healing, we believe it stops short of true deliverance. In our view, healing alone is insufficient when it comes to dealing with spiritual bondage; there also needs to be a clear practice of expelling evil spirits. We feel Sozo misses a crucial element by focusing more on inner healing without taking that extra step of deliverance, which we see as an essential part of spiritual freedom. So, while we can recognize some positives in Sozo, we ultimately approach it with caution due to these theological and practical issues. Furthermore, we’re concerned about Sozo’s approach to those who struggle to “feel” God’s presence. Sozo sessions often involve leading individuals into emotional states connected to past traumas, which can then be interpreted by the facilitator as “the presence of God.” In our opinion, this practice risks substituting true encounters with God for emotionalism. By encouraging participants to associate stirred emotions with God’s presence, Sozo may inadvertently lead people to mistake emotional experiences for genuine spiritual connection. For these reasons, we caution against uncritical acceptance of Sozo and advise discernment when considering its practices.
@@TheRemnantRadio Thank you so much for the awesome, detailed response! I guess the early tenor seemed so positive I didn't fully register your concerns and I will definitely go back and watch again -- but in any case this written summary really helps. Thanks again.
Recently had innerhealing session with 2 ppl trained in a method based on Charles E. Kraft's book Deep Wounds Deep Healing. No weird visualization putting Jesus in a past memory. No artificial conflation of personal family dynamics with how we view each aspect of the trinity. Plenty of asking Holy Spirit to reveal / speak about a situation / lie believed & then waiting to hear from God. This process requires you to feel enough confidence that you can hear from God clearly.
Great motives and some good results methods may need to be filtered. Friends have had mostly good experiences from non Bethel inner healing ministries. It all depends on the one who is ministering.
I’ve done sozo and lead people through it. It’s christianized visualization therapy which was originally put together by carl Jung it can be incredibly healing. Not sure where you guys are going with this but I’m gonna turn it off. Love you guys I’ll catch up on the next one.
I recently left a church that was part of this “stream”. In the comments, somebody made the point that subsequent levels of Sozo include deliverance. We may need to question how such deliverance is practiced. Some are teaching that because we are in flesh and blood bodies, we aren’t powerful enough to contend with demons (This contradicts 2 Corinthians 4:7). Instead we should partner with angels, and ask / command that they do the deliverance on our behalf. This is not the teaching of the New Testament, where Jesus and His disciples cast out the spirits with a word.
Thats right, one of the confusing things about Sozo is how decentralized it is. The foundation is shakey to begin with, but some of the practitioners are totally wheels off.
It is possible to be in relationship with one God, but only "know" one side of him (eg. if you like "grace" to feel close to God in that aspect, but not feel close to Him when you read the old testament and wary of the side of God that has wrath). It's not necessarily that they are intentionally separating God into three parts, but maybe it's just organized that way so it is easier to identify which sides of Him are resisted. Just wondering "out loud..."
In my experience, my earthly father horribly abused me while telling me that he loved me. I was really screwed up for a very long time. Renewing my mind has helped but it is much easier for me to see the Father as a King or authority over me and not as much in loving, caring ways.
@@sustainingpurpose4922 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. That passage doesn't talk about self deliverance, it says that repentance and the knowledge of the truth makes you free SOZO is a rewired model based on Neil Anderson or Pablo Bottari models (great ones!), but im not very sure if it replaces "power encounters" that are modeled by Jesus and the Apostles
Trinitarian question: We know the distinctions between the persons of the Trinity via their relationship to each other within one unitive being [one will, personality, inseparable operations, etc.]. The Father gives Jesus; Jesus reveals the Father; Holy Spirit leads us into truth and remind us of Jesus' teaching and testifies of our adoption to the Father. I fully grasp the concern regarding overdisntiction in the Father Ladder with our earthly relationships. Is it biblical, however, to have relationship with the persons of Trinity because while they are fully one, they have different roles within the Godhead in their relations to us and within the Godhead [Father is not Son; Son is Not Holy Spirit; Holy Spirit is Not Father, etc]?
How would you guys address the claims that sozo mimics new age “spirit guides” and spirit walking? I completely believe in inner healing, however their methods concern me and concern many others too in that they look strangely like new age practices. This obviously isn’t the only way Bethel has been accused of new age-y practices
Physics of heaven is new age, using tarot cards for evangelism is new age, but I can not see how this is new age. It may look similar to new age, but stretching looks similar to yoga, and muslim prayer looks like christian prayer, but there is no substantive connection that I can see. Again, to be clear, sozo is not helpful, nor do I think its biblical, that being said IDK why it has to be labeled "new age". thats my two cents, I could totally be persuaded out of my position, I don't hold it emphatically. I just think people are sensitive to the largest growing cult group in America (new age and the cult) and the similarities have people falsely labeling.
@@TheRemnantRadio it’s helpful to call something what it is and SOZO is rooted in New Age practices. Bill Johnson even talks about reclaiming the New Age. It’s kinda obvious for anyone who has eyes to see and ears to hear.
@@TaylorBibleGuy i think you are confusing Chris V, and Bill. Chris says that we should reclaim the new age in his contribution to Phisics of heaven. that's why I openly condemned it in my prior coment. Maybe Bill said that as well, but you would have to provide me with a recit, so that I can condemn that too. I think you may be misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not claiming that there are no visualization teqniques in the New Age, I am merely suggesting that visualization tequniques can come from multiple sources and look similar this does not mean that they are the same.
@ yes but this source has already aligned themselves with New Age practices… it’s like you are being intentionally obtuse. And whether bill said it or not he endorsed it and co authored it.
45:11 The late David Wilkerson prophesied psychology would enter the church. I think theres a lot of it in our modern churches. Personally, God is undoing that and showing me how weak it is compared to His Word and Spirit as the only means to life and true freedom.
can you direct me toward this prophecy? I am looking for a prophecy about psychology in the church. I have been looking for a few hours, I cant find it. We do have links disabled on this page, so maybe just tell me what to search.
I’m trying to figure out what to do because I feel called to help people with holistic/inner healing work. I have a graduate certificate in mental health studies but stopped short of the masters in counseling because of the restrictions with the state. Biblical counseling is cessationist and Calvinist and I’m neither of those. Sozo seems too new age & not super helpful. But there’s gotta be something I’m missing.
My one question is, why is it something we have to be trained on if the disciples just were given the power to? I mean yes they watched Jesus, and yes they came to him with questions, so you could make an argument for “training”. But they didn’t have a course on how to cast out a demon using Sozo 101. They were just given the power to and told to do it and watch it happen. And then those disciples gave the power to the 70 and then to the 120. so everybody was doing the work of the ministry. is this then more of a renewal of mind practice rather than dealing with the spiritual world?
Of course, I agree that Sozo isn’t biblical. But the Bible also doesn’t lay out specific instructions on how to evangelize Hindus or Muslims, craft sermons with illustrations, explanations, and applications, or use platforms like RUclips to share the gospel. Yet, I have no problem with someone using logic, communication skills, or technology-gifts of common grace-to spread the gospel, just as I don’t oppose the use of counseling as a means of guided sanctification.
@@TheRemnantRadio so true. And I like what Rowntree (I’m totally butchering that. My apologies hahah) how he said inner healing and casting out demons are two separate things, tho they can relate to one another
So, what I can gather from this talk is that Bethel's Sozo (as opposed to other brands of inner healing) does not (1) do Deliverance as part of their Sozo, and (2) does not always link the 3 members of the Trinity in its counseling sessions. Is this a correct rendering of your point? Are there any other points that I am missing?
It would be a fair question to ask - what are the psychological studies that underpin the 'Father ladder'. Like how big were the sample groups, over how long were the studies, etc etc. If there's no hard psychological data to back up this theory (cause there's nothing biblical) then you gotta say it all seems arbitrary and therefore pointless.
I'm part of a church that has bethel links & hence a Sozo ministry. This was a good evaluation by you guys @remnantradio I have been thru a sozo myself & didn't really think it was that useful, although I know people who have & did (esp if they had parent issues where they then viewed God thru those lenses e.g. distant father meant God is distant). But sozo is not deliverance - 100% agree - and some sozo.ministers also do deliverance, sometimes in same session. All that said, your critique is valid - I felt like it was a bit formulaic, too much emphasis on "father ladder" as you called it. Not everything is a daddy issue, and maybe some ministers bring in too much pop psychology without knowing enough on that front - but maybe that's true for a lot of pastoral counsellors too. (I'm.not saying psychology has the right answer either, but just that pop psychology can be really bad - e.g. every selfish person is a narcissist nowadays) But bless Bethel for at least doing this as an inner healing course - they may not always be right, but they are trying to see the Kingdom of God break through into people's lives. So again, well done on a balanced review. Now go kick out some demons ;)
I wish she would expound on why do they talk about this father ladder. And they say if you have problems with the Holy Spirit must mean you have some problems with your mother. What scripture reference would that be about
Would love to get ahold of Michael’s journal on healing that he mentioned in this video. How can I access this? I’ve always struggled with SOZO and never recommend it.
we try and make sure he is not the first face you see LOL. Unfortunately I was training some Missionaries in Maui, so... you guys had to see his face first LOL
SOZO is New Age. The fact that you (Remannt Radio) can’t see that when Bill Johnson literally co authored a “Christian Book” about reclaiming the New Age is mind boggling to me.
Thanks Remnant guys for this. I'm hoping you'll do a similar analysis of TPM (Transformation Prayer Ministry) which my church is very engaged in. I have some concerns about it, but not sure if im just being overly critical.
@@TheRemnantRadio I liked listening to it. I saw you guys took a much different angle, and gave Bethel much more of a benefit of the doubt. I think the main difference between your video and hers is that while she took a more clinical scientific approach by interviewing a Christian licensed counselor, you guys took a more spiritual approach, but both approaches still included theology which was definitely a must. She did mention how she felt it was good to balance the scientific and the spiritual and took both into account when it came to counseling, but I see you guys definitely expanded on the spiritual side more. I think it's an interesting application of how sometimes in scripture miracles happened, and other times more natural remedies where suggested for people, like someone drinking wine for their stomach. I like the part added about not trying to swoop in with the right answer during the person's most vulnerable time. The counselor Melissa brought on talked about trying help the patient find the right answer, and giving them the tools to come a to a good answer themselves, instead of just handing it to them on a silver platter of strictly what she thought, and I think those things parallel. Both of you guys definitely agreed an the Father Ladder being problematic, so there's unison there. I really liked Miller's addition of the demon story, and that even helped me think about things, and my anger and rage issues. Also, I felt for a second that I was watching Jesus talk when Miller was speaking. It partly might have been the hair and the beard, and the light shining from his window, but he showed us how to be kind and reassuring, and remind us that God really cares about our nutrition and that we treat ourselves well. Also I think that this video is far superior to Melissa's because her video didn't care to mention the Leprechaun Spirit who's out for your lucky charms. Tsk Tsk.
I know that Jesus can heal anything. However that is usually facilitated in the context of love, listening to the other person, and pointing them to Jesus, within the boundaries of the Scriptures. That gives room for the Holy Spirit to do what only God can do. Jesus taught us how to pray, but that doesn't mean that we have to allow other people to tell us what to say. We should first discern whether it is in line with Scripture before we repeat anything. And other people need to respect our right to say no and not demand that we automatically say what they want us to repeat. Repeating a Scripture in context is great, but no one has any right to insist that we say anything else they want us to repeat. That's a very disrespectful way to treat another adult. And it has cultish overtones. People get extra Biblical ideas and then build an entire theology around those ideas. While this probably began with good motives, it sounds off track and dangerous to me now. When a ministry departs from the whole of Scripture but still claims to be under the power of the Holy Spirit, that ministry usually starts doing more harm than good and hurts more people than it helps.
I do not see this as Freudian. This has much more to do with attachment coined by Bowlby and Ainsworth. The issues related to the Godhead and earthly family feels more like attachment traumas/ wounds.
@@TheRemnantRadio thank you for reaching out. Bowlby and Ainsworth are the force behind Attachment Theory. It is a theoretical concept within the mental health arena that conceptualizes the struggles we have in relating to others initiated due to abuse or neglect during our developmental stages. From a very basic standpoint, my lack of love, support, attention.... during my developmental stages biases my perceptions of my interactions today. If my earthly parent inflicted harm or withheld love, affection, or basic necessities I may view the world as unsafe and undependable. At the same time, these traumas or wounds can also bias my sense of self ie, there must be something inherently wrong or broken within me if my family rejected or harmed me in such a significant manner. These beliefs can then transfer over to how I perceive and interact with the Godhead. There is no way God, Jesus, Holy Spirit will love me or be interested in me when my earthly family was not interested. Or my earthly family was chaotic or unsafe, why would God, Jesus, Holy Spirit be any different. Obviously, holding these concepts loosely and not insisting that each person fall within each of those constructs becomes very dangerous. It is not a "one size fits all". These concepts should illicit a discussion and a curious exploration. They give a therapist a framework by which we can support the individual to explore their life experiences and some validation as to why they may view the world, or God from a belief that others are not safe. I realize that I have attempted to condense a fairly robust theoretical orientation into a few lines on a RUclips response. A good example of healing an attachment wound or trauma was described by you. It was very brave for you to share a very vulnerable part of yourself with the world-at-large! You experienced an attachment trauma or wound but the wound was healed as you formed a bond and relationship with God as Father and then were surroundied by other Godly men who challenged the core belief that fathers leave, are not to be trusted.....It may have also challenged a core belief that there was something inherently wrong with you for your father to break the natural order of things and align with another family. I am speaking very loosely and not attempting to "read your mind". These concepts are a framework for structuring conversations not making assumptions. It becomes dangerous when we have to force everyone to line up with our narrow view. John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth are the two forces behind the development of this school of thought. I hope that I have not overwhelmed you with my discussion and greatly appreciate the offer to share further.
It was said 38min into the video "The persons of the Trinity only has one will" Jesus said in Luke 22:42 Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. This clearly shows that Jesus has his own will but always submits himself to the Father. The same with the Holy Spirit in John 16: 12-15 The beauty if the Trinity is the 3 persons of the Godhead is they work as one. How the Trinity can be viewed is that we serve one God with 3 revelations of the one God. Each person of theTrininity has its distinct role & function, yet one 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 4. There are different kinds of gifts, but the SAME SPIRIT distributes them. 5. There are different kinds of service, but the SAME LORD. 6. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone, it is the SAME GOD at work.
Wow, this is sad. Jesus said pray like this, not repeat after me. These are subjects, categories and most of all the heart of prayer, not a mantra to be recited over and over. This is on the dangerous slide toward witchcraft, which so many in charismania follow. "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, come out!" Its time to burn the ritualistic scrolls in repentance and return to the Lord with all our hearts. As far as Bethel and Sozo is concerned, Scripture is clear, have nothing to do with them. "I wouldn't send my kids there" doesn't cut it. Have you not wondered why those who condemned common Christian practice as dead ritual become even more repetitively dead than those they have broken away from? Repetition is the mother of charismatic invention.
Yes this! It’s like Miller wants this to be true so bad he’s misusing scriptures to make his point. Nothing he quotes supports the practice of inner healing.
Jesus also prayed the Shema in the morning and the evening. Recitation has been a very common practice for the purpose of memorization and meditation for all of world history. What matters is the validity of the statements in the recitation. We can all agree with the truths in the Shema. We can all agree with the Lord's prayer, as well as the whole of Scripture. So it's good to recite them and meditate on them. We need to distinguish when we are repeating without testing from when we are praying a scripted prayer.
Psalms 23 addresses inner healing. He GOD RESTORES OUR Soul. No Man Can Fix Your Mind Will Or Emotions Except THE LORD JESUS. So these people SHOULD STOP TRYING!! You guys have Beams sticking out of your eyes while you are trying to remove the splinter from their eye. That’s just another crazy teaching from that group!!!!!!
Hey guys, just to be super clear, SOZO has nearly nothing original to it just like Restoring the Foundations. Over 50% is usually white labelled Elijah House practices (John and Paula Sandford). Ministry leaders reinvent the model so they can insert theological or practitioner preferences, as well as not having to credit or absorb accreditation and submission structures to originators. Digging into the Sandford side will uncover the mix of mysticism, psychology and their scriptural interpretations to support the practices which you’d never get from a second or third generation version were its all just assumed and absorbed.
Another portion would be that they white labelled Leanne Payne’s Theophostic prayer ministry practice of inserting Jesus into existing traumatic experiences through a personally manufactured (guided) prayer experience. This is supposed to alter and implant memories to reframe and reinterpret traumatic experience. It is highly formulaic. Other inspirations can be derived from Agnes Sanford, Ruth Carter Stapleton, Charles Fill ore and Francis Macnutt. Due to controversy DeSilva denies TPM practices are absorbed in Sozo but for those i undated im the material it is utterly undeniable. What would be most interesting is that you would have on a field leading christian psychologist such as Dianne Langberg or someone that qualified to discuss and critique how helpful these methods would be from a clinical and trauma informed perspective. Especially helpful with a tidal wave of new victims that feel released to seek help from Gateway, IHOP and Morningstar (and maybe more to come) you guys could use your powerful influence in our space to guide our fellow young charismatics into seeking productive means of therapy where needed.
For corroborating testimony of the Sandfords mystical practices look no further than their spiritual son David Herzogs book Glory Invasion, in case that helps your research. Also for the mix of Inner Healing and Deliverance look up Johns book of this title. Has helpful elements and elements that I’d really wonder about your take.
Because they lean on the Elijah house model, deliverance is often brought back to an interpretation of binding the strong man where unattended ‘wounds’ will make deliverance temporary and ineffective. I think this makes some sense psychologically but isn’t always echoed in NT passages. Also they divide up demonic activity in four categories: momentary visitation, structural oppression, obsession with sin or dark themes and then full posession, the latter of which is rare. I have encountered the latter only a few times in remote parts of the world but the person is literally a chained up vessel where a demonic force is occupying and steering them 24/7. Anything less than that is not considered posession. A lot of oppression is already alleviated by bringing about closure to points of entry and inviting in Jesus or softly rebuking and binding/casting out the oppressing force. I can attest to this ministry wise (experientially) but the theology on this should be tested as its foundational to all big inner healing ministries from RTF, EH, Heartsync, Sozo all the way to the smaller historic or current day versions
I want to really advise against suggesting people to go about inner healing to integrate MPD and especially if related to SRA. I will not go into detail as to why here but the primary has to be to be aligned with a professional therapist and the inner healing ministry to be guided and subservient to that trajectory. Agree by the way on people often casting out emotion and misinterpreting stored trauma as demonic. Discernment is key, if handled as deliverance this is often retraumatizing
I minister inner healing to people using this model. If people come open, it is usually very powerful and does include deliverance. I've seen some amazing transformations! My favorite tool is "healing of wounded memories". I always see them have a breakthrough when they are able to see where Jesus was in a particular negative memory.
@TallyFlOSU well, the Lord is so brilliant and creative, that somehow it works as usually what he shows them is very profound and helps them to be able to move beyond that painful memory.
Jesus wasnt identifying himself with the psalmist.... he wa was the literal fulfilment of the psalm. Psalms 22 is Davids prophecy of jesus in that very moment. he was drawing attention to that fact by reciting it. but point taken.
Inner Healing isn’t in the Bible. The scriptures Miller quoted don’t support the idea. Unless you can show me Jesus or the Disciples or anyone in the church for that matter spending a couple hours showing you how your “Mother Wounds” relate to your relationship with the Holy Spirit. 😂 utterly ridiculous.
@@TaylorBibleGuy I felt the same after an inner healing ministry was abused in my church. This scripture made me rethink: Psalm 147:3 "He heals the broken-hearted and binds up their wounds." God really can and does heal trauma and inner pain, just as he can do outward healings.
@ yes God does this, amen! That verse makes no reference to “inner healing” as it’s practiced in the charismatic church. This verse is referring to the inner work of the Holy Spirit that is done in spite of us NOT because we “did the work”.
@@TaylorBibleGuy Were in agreement then. I have been able to pray with people and see them recieve inner healing but not by virtue of a method, but because of God's grace.
This is all so subjective. Its like your just gambling on whether your going to help someone or confuse and traumatize them with these experiences. It gives me the creeps. I was at ihop for a long time and i could never get on board with this kind of stuff.
Does anyone ever agree with every ministry in church. I certainly don’t agree with some of the stuff you guys have said like Sam storm doesn’t believe that everyone who’s baptized in the Holy Spirit can speak with tongues to speak with tongues. Roundtree I believe is part of a denomination believes in infant baptism.
38"- Jesus's r'ships with his family were a bit bumpy/not so great on their end. He also made a number of comments about him/the gospel dividing/causing conflict in earthly families (i.e. Matt. 10:21, 34-37). Being a follower of Jesus does not mean things will be perfect with your earthly family; anything but!
@TheRemnantRadio It's using tools like guided imagery, meditaion, journaling etc., to understand the unconscious reasons behind the way you think or behave. The practice can be used to heal past trauma or bring truth to false beliefs about yourself that manifest in destructive or self sabotaging patterns of behavior. You can look up Carl Jung to learn more.
Not to mention that what we have in written form called the Bible is only a fraction of all Jesus did in His time on earth. As well as everything the disciples did. I think the Bible box has severely hindered the actual movement of Holy Spirit. Obviously Jesus did nothing that contradicts what is written but I don’t think the examples we are given are the end all.
@@honestmann747 you realize that big tech doesn't own LLMs and you can build them yourself with a decent hardware setup? There are open sourced models in the public domain
@@paulral I do, and I have done so myself. Is that what Josh did? Regardless I have elucidated my views on generative "ai" at very great length on other platforms. RUclips comments section is not a discussion board, and I have no responsibility to yield to your command to "explain," stranger.
To answer this question, we need church lady Holly Pivik to give us an interview and demonstrate the superior dance. Only the Church lady can tell us whether or not healing rooms are biblical. “So let’s see your bill Johnson, heretic, and son of Satan, isn’t that special?”
I never like the tone here... like they are the authority and not the Word. I think they by and large come to the right conclusion on the major points, but only by the common cliche approaches to the problem, missing the larger field yet instudied.
No. We always try to call balls and strikes. So while we can see the desire for Sozo to help people with inner healing (and support the need to heal the broken hearted), there are enough negatives with Sozo to not recommend it.
And you guys are handling (twisting) scripture in a horrible way to fit the sozo practice. I usually like you guys but this video is extremely disappointing
@ I did like I said I was a with for over 7 years and did when I was a charasmatic. Sozo is one big bright red x. With absolutely 0 scriptural authority
I don’t know, I’ve been following Jesus for over 40 years. I’ve seen ‘tools’ come and go. One thing I wish I had focused on more was God’s Word. I have a new appreciation for the power of His word in my life. That is never debated or questioned as necessary, healthy and good! Thanks guys
Agree. I think God is doing that within His Bride.
As a counselor in training, who is in my final two courses and working within an internship, I have never done for myself or seen sozo applied. I have as a Christian always used what I have learned, and experienced through my own healing through my time with the Holy Spirit, courses, and Christian and non-christian therapeutic and psychological theories I have had alot of inner healing, and had expulsion while walking this process out with my husband and in my own prayer time with God , also from what Holy Spirit has revealed. I have done the work for myself and continue to do so.
I spend time with other believers and have walked with them to seek the Holy Spirit for what He reveals as what should be addressed and also with the training I have submitted to. Several have experienced freedom, shift in thinking, deliverance, joy, peace, etc, after time spent within their time of counseling.
*Demonstrating* the Book of Acts church reality would be a much more effective way of fulfilling Christs mission than publicly discussing other ministries and leaders.
Throughout my 35 year walk I have often seen my heart as a hallway of doors. Early on there were many closed doors and some I vehemently guarded and refused entry to. I could see myself blocking the door and refusing to let Jesus in. As I began to heal over time, more doors were opened and the rooms were filled with light. In 2020 I began having a reoccurring dream which included the hall of doors. Each time I have the dream (which is a house I am moving through) it’s the same place physically but as I move through the house, it is changed. What began as a house cluttered and impassable is now orderly and easier to move in. I see it as a sort of progress report from the LORD to encourage me.
Love it! Ty so much for sharing
You should keep a dream journal to record special things from the Lord
When I first was a SOZO minister, the "rules" were super loose for us, and we were supposed to always be guided by the Holy Spirit. People had amazing encounters with God, many deliverances, and emotional wounds healed (including myself)
After a SOZO summit, our leader suddenly became much stricter with the rules and usage of the tools as if it were the tools that healed and delivered people instead of God. We also got a time restriction. I left the SOZO Team because I felt like I didn't have the freedom to follow the Holy Spirit's guide anymore.
However, a few months later when I went deeper into deliverance and into tesearching New Age practices, I realized that some ministers always used the tool by saying "imagine XYZ" instead of "ask the Holy Spirit if He can show you a door / a memory /..." and by that using visualization - a new age practice.
Now, when someone tells me they are going to receive a SOZO, I recommend them to not "imagine", but always aal the Holy Spirit, since some ministers don't realize visualization a New Age practice
SOZO is New Age.
That makes so much sense with my experience. A friend of mine is an old school Sozo lady, and offered to walk me through a session once (I didn't know anything about it at the time). To me, it was just a really great guided prayer experience. I expressed my worries, and she provided questions for me to bring to the Lord that I hadn't thought to ask before. There was no imagining. Then I read other peoples' experiences and it's so completely different from mine.
Thanks for your insight on this. I've Always wondered about the visualization thing too.
I have done Sozo back in 2016 twice, and nothing happens. Nothing gets healed. I think I question it because it’s almost like they believe that this formulated ritual will work every time. God cannot be formulated in my opinion. Yes Jesus does heal us from the inside, but the formula doesn’t have some special anointing to work in this manner. I think it’s unbiblical for sure.
Thats a good take. Thank you for sharing your story.
I agree. I don't think we need programs. We just need to be mature in The Spirit and learn to hear from God. He will lead and guide us as needed, including for our hurts.
I know two people who went through. 1, got nothing out of it, and another did. The one that did is a bit more mature in The Spirit and I think that could be why she got more out of it.
It all comes down to The Spirit.
My healings personally have come from repenting idols. There are so many idols. We are made to worship. We worship God or something else. Every,single day. Getting a renewed mind from the days I was not saved... and seeing how disordered my affections have been and placing them on Christ alone. That's been the healing. Learning how to rightly repent and how to worship God completely.
Sozo is totally unbiblical and dangerous. And yes, I have experienced it because a church I used to attend wanted to start it as a ministry. It set off alarm bells on so many levels
I used to attend a church that used Sozo. I once felt that I needed some deliverance. I asked the pastor about it. He said, "We don't do that here."
im sorry to hear that. Did you find yourself some deliverence?
The discussion we’ve all been waiting for!!
What were your thoughts?
@ it was pretty well balanced! It’s difficult for me because with so much demonic stuff coming out of bethel (we know a lot of former BSSM students and almost all of them are living in sexual sin or have some other major character issue😭) it’s easy to want to throw the baby out with the bath water just for the sake of being safe but I know it’s not necessarily the answer. I had listened to one a couple months ago from Melissa Daughtry that I think was a bit more in depth but I think she leans more cessationist (I don’t know this! I am just assuming off of some comments she’s made). One thing the interview she had did point out that I didn’t think of is that sozo often requires you to make up a memory which is kinda questionable. Her video is worth watching too I think!
A charismatic with 25 years of prayer ministry here. Read a book or two on it , and then received a session. While I do inner healing prayer ministry, I think there are portions of Sozo which are a “bridge too far”. I prefer the Wimber model (Orbis Ministries) and Transformation Prayer Ministry (Ed Smith).
Have you read inner healing books from PRMI (Presbyterian Reform Ministries International)? If so, could you share your thoughts from someone who ministers inner healing.
I believe in inner healing prayer. However, this method requires you to imagine (or picture) Jesus in the room with you, which can become awkward and put a person on the spot. It's easy to feel pressure to see an image of Jesus and imagine his response to your situation. Jesus is always opposed to and hurt by your abuse. But, I like the fact that the Holy Spirit can bring things to the surface that need to be healed.
I have aphantasia and couldn't do it. I felt pressured to lie about not being able to see a scenario. It was the aphantasia which I did not know it at the time. There wasn't suddenly a problem with me not trying hard enough and it ended up being spiritualised as blindness. It was just awkward and unhelpful.
This is one of the common criticisms of Theophostic prayer ministry that Sozo employs. The fact that you are guided by a counsellor to see things goes into the arena of suggestibility, implanting false memory and manufacturing ‘spiritual’ experiences. Put plainly, if the person would not have the experience without a memory manipulation formula, should we credit it to God - even if helpful as a reframing tool that serves to reinstate peoples autonomy and sense of will and supportedness in the midst of a traumatic memory? The other issues come down to importing faulty theologic beliefs or concepts about God into experiences and centring ones experience and perception of God based on a (tempered with) traumatic experience. Great topic to dig into with christian trauma experts in my opinion.
Amen BUT there is nothing we need to do for the inner work of the Holy Spirit to be accomplished. It’s not because of what we do but because of what he’s done and is doing.
The person doing the session with me was very patient and didnt get training from Bethel but it was as you described. It was overall beneficial but I didn't see Jesus in the room either. Mixed deal for me I am open but cautious.
Simply put witchcraft and a sin. We can't manifest spiritual experiences. Genuine ones are "as The Spirit Wills." @christianwoudenberg3393
Believe it or not, I've had several visions of an image of Jesus. (The real Jesus, idk?) ... so I'm not against that fruition of that, I just dont find it wise to summon a particular spiritual instance. God deep with God, take your cares and life to Him. Just see where He leads.
Sozo now says I have an issue with the Holy Spirit when in reality, I just had an issue with my mom. It created an issue with the Spirit that wasnt originally there
I'm sorry you experienced this. I have seen the same thing. Unfortunately, I saw it with a young girl, age 14. She was convinced that God told her she had a problem with her dad-but she didn’t have a problem. But she was 14, and when God speaks, you have to believe Him. She ended up believing a lie and damaging her healthy relationship with her father because 'God told her' she didn’t.
@TheRemnantRadio I'm sry I want to clarify. I didn't go to Sozo but wanted to point an issue with with the practice but ran out of room in comment box. I appreciate you all and the remnant radio ministry. Thank you for what you do!
Man, you guys are SO balanced. Spirit and truth. God bless you!
It was helpful to read others comments that sozo didn't really do much for them. It didn't me either, but have felt that 'less than' feeling because i couldn't connect that way. I do agree with someone' else's comment that it comes out of John and Paul' Sanford's work. Their teachings have been a great blessing at times to my life. Also I have noticed over the years that when the Holy Spirit gives something new that it is fresh and alive and people are dependent on the Holy Spirit but then we become familiar with it and don't seem to need the Holy Spirit anymore and that is when it begins to become empty and as we become even more familiar we tend to slide into the attitude where we don't need the Holy Spirit anymore and we move into religion . And that is dead legalism, and it kills, destroys and hurts people. Like maybe Calvin had something in the beginning but now it is just bullying and entitlement for the few. (My opinion.)
Interesting objecrive description of solo in theory. The problem is the people that practice it and how they condemn you when you don’t get healed and start saying you have hidden sins that you don’t remember más God is not revealing to them, and the hours of trying to get information out of you, etc. it can get dangerous and it’s similar to the Healing rooms. You can’t compare sozo to a real trauma session like EMDR.
I am against inner healing but all for deliverance. Inner healing has new age in it and it all started to get popular in this country by a book called Transformation of the Inner Man. Very new age, I bought it once and couldn't read it, then later did some investigation and Agnes Sanford who was the mentor of the authors, was really into the occult. Picturing Jesus in a situation of your past is visualization, and opening yourself up to a false Jesus.
Amen! That’s because you have discernment and wisdom. It’s plain as day for anyone with ears to hear and eyes to see.
Yup, she's known as the mother of inner healing. Here's a quote from Sanfords book "the healing light" "The second step is to turn it on, by some such prayer as this “Heavenly Father, please increase in me at this time Your life-giving power.” Or if we do not know this outside life as our Heavenly Father, we can simply say “Whoever you are - whatever you are - come into me now!”
Her mentor was Morton Kelsey, who ascribed to Carl Yung. Connect the dots.
It's all esoteric pagan mysticism. Everything that comes out of Bethel is. Including Sozo.
This is such an interesting thing that you mention. I’m interested to learn more but I would love to share this story but a very condensed version. I know someone who came to Jesus in the 1990’s…who had no relationship with God and the encounter they had with the Lord - he asked God where has he been all his life and the Lord did walk him through some major painful moments and showed him where he had been. This person was riding in the back of a bus down a mountain after fighting California fires. There was no minister. There was no exposure to a teaching like this. It was just soveriegn. So when I read comment saying that those types of “return to your memory” types of ministry is New Age, I wonder (genuinely) if we have a misconception. I wonder if the reality is that yes, the Lord has been present with everyone of us and would show us if we asked. I wonder if we can’t just say that that type of thing doesn’t belong to the New Age practices but maybe that something was counterfeited that actually belongs to the Lord. Now I don’t think every practice can be held in that regard but just wanted to put this out there. :) thanks for sharing and also reading.
Great conversation. I underwent a Sozo and i recognize the same pros and cons. There are some things what are off. I must say, God blessed it really for me. I had a great time and was hugely encouraged
Thanks for the feedback!
Having been immersed in the inner healing philosophy/ministry of John Loren Sandford, Jungian psychology and thought to the likes of Robert Bly and John Eldredge…and realizing many here will disagree with a few of those too, I also went thru a Sozo thing way back in the day and it’s truly pointless. It’s some serious charismatic fast food and formulaic. Just my experience. Love the stuff you guys are diving into!! Thank you
I've always seen the Father, Son and Spirit as three different "persons". In a mysterious way, they are all indeed ONE, but I can also honestly say that I have a unique relationship with all three almost independently. They do indeed have unique personalities! I can see how you can get totally weird about this for sure, but I have a firm understanding of Scripture. I enjoy all three persons of the God-Head.
Manypeople myself included started withJesus as the door but struggled withFather God or Holy Spirit. Its quite normal and healing process happens overtime as God directs.
I am very surprised you are so positive about Sozo, although maybe my experience was uniquely bad. I started the process once 2 years ago and did not finish it by choice. First, I found a lot of "repeat after me"s where there was no room to ask questions about the unclear meanings of several of the supposed declarations of truth. Second, I think that there was a ton of assumptions built into their flowchart of "if they say this, then do that" and no room whatsoever to ask questions midstream about the process. I know because of the unique life I've led I tend to be an outlier in the sense that "if they say A, there's a 95% chance that B is true so assume B is true" will lead to a MUCH higher that 5% chance of error. I know early on they asked about my relationship with my father and I asked "at what age?" since it changed dramatically with my mom developing a brain tumor and dying then my dad becoming an alcoholic. Even though they said age 8, soon before everything "hit the fan", and I thought I gave a totally normal " loved and respected but also feared" answer for a kid in 1967, I thought they totally shamed me because I didn't totally give some cream puff "I just felt totally safe and loved in the arms of my Dada" response. Really, I just felt like I was being yelled at the whole time and it was horrible. At one point because of some response they accused me of having a religious spirit and told me to repeat after them that there was nothing good whatsoever about having a religious spirit. But of course I couldn't break the flow and ask questions about why they said that. They were probably just following a flow chart anyways. It was horrible. I soon got out. Providentially, I just heard Rowntree quote "as Sozo ministers our job is never to judge how a person thinks, sees or feels God". I didn't feel that way at all. People have encouraged me to try again. Are you really saying there's potential value consistent with biblical Christianity in this? My life is incredibly painful and difficult and I could use any relief God would bring, but without outside encouragement I have no faith Sozo isn't garbage. And what about the many YT testimonies of people claiming to have been hurt by it?
Well, I wouldn't say we were positive toward Sozo. We endorse the emphasis on repentance, renewing the mind, and healing emotional wounds-these are deeply biblical practices that we believe are essential to inner healing. We appreciate that Sozo seeks to address the whole person by helping people identify and replace lies with God’s truth. However, we also have significant concerns about their methods, especially the “Father Ladder,” which suggests that earthly family dynamics impact our relationships with the members of the Trinity. To us, this concept is unstable, unbiblical, and potentially even dangerous, as it risks dividing the Trinity in ways that could lead to a kind of “functional tritheism.”
Additionally, while Sozo promotes inner healing, we believe it stops short of true deliverance. In our view, healing alone is insufficient when it comes to dealing with spiritual bondage; there also needs to be a clear practice of expelling evil spirits. We feel Sozo misses a crucial element by focusing more on inner healing without taking that extra step of deliverance, which we see as an essential part of spiritual freedom. So, while we can recognize some positives in Sozo, we ultimately approach it with caution due to these theological and practical issues.
Furthermore, we’re concerned about Sozo’s approach to those who struggle to “feel” God’s presence. Sozo sessions often involve leading individuals into emotional states connected to past traumas, which can then be interpreted by the facilitator as “the presence of God.” In our opinion, this practice risks substituting true encounters with God for emotionalism. By encouraging participants to associate stirred emotions with God’s presence, Sozo may inadvertently lead people to mistake emotional experiences for genuine spiritual connection. For these reasons, we caution against uncritical acceptance of Sozo and advise discernment when considering its practices.
@@TheRemnantRadio Thank you so much for the awesome, detailed response! I guess the early tenor seemed so positive I didn't fully register your concerns and I will definitely go back and watch again -- but in any case this written summary really helps. Thanks again.
So sorry you had to go through this. It sounds awful. Not ministry.
@@lindag9975 Thanks for the support.
Recently had innerhealing session with 2 ppl trained in a method based on Charles E. Kraft's book Deep Wounds Deep Healing.
No weird visualization putting Jesus in a past memory. No artificial conflation of personal family dynamics with how we view each aspect of the trinity.
Plenty of asking Holy Spirit to reveal / speak about a situation / lie believed & then waiting to hear from God. This process requires you to feel enough confidence that you can hear from God clearly.
Great motives and some good results methods may need to be filtered. Friends have had mostly good experiences from non Bethel inner healing ministries. It all depends on the one who is ministering.
I’ve done sozo and lead people through it. It’s christianized visualization therapy which was originally put together by carl Jung it can be incredibly healing. Not sure where you guys are going with this but I’m gonna turn it off. Love you guys I’ll catch up on the next one.
I recently left a church that was part of this “stream”. In the comments, somebody made the point that subsequent levels of Sozo include deliverance. We may need to question how such deliverance is practiced. Some are teaching that because we are in flesh and blood bodies, we aren’t powerful enough to contend with demons (This contradicts 2 Corinthians 4:7). Instead we should partner with angels, and ask / command that they do the deliverance on our behalf. This is not the teaching of the New Testament, where Jesus and His disciples cast out the spirits with a word.
Thats right, one of the confusing things about Sozo is how decentralized it is. The foundation is shakey to begin with, but some of the practitioners are totally wheels off.
It is possible to be in relationship with one God, but only "know" one side of him (eg. if you like "grace" to feel close to God in that aspect, but not feel close to Him when you read the old testament and wary of the side of God that has wrath). It's not necessarily that they are intentionally separating God into three parts, but maybe it's just organized that way so it is easier to identify which sides of Him are resisted. Just wondering "out loud..."
In my experience, my earthly father horribly abused me while telling me that he loved me. I was really screwed up for a very long time. Renewing my mind has helped but it is much easier for me to see the Father as a King or authority over me and not as much in loving, caring ways.
In a similar way, my 43 year emotionless marriage makes it difficult to see Jesus as a bridegroom.
im so sorry you experienced this Linda!
Prayers… we are the fortunate ones. Bc we found Christ. Many did not… ❤
There definitely needs to be more deliverance at Bethel.
Amen
TRR may call them brothers in Christ. I will not. They excluded themselves from that a long time ago.
First a true conversion. Not a single brother in the lot. Fact
SOZO is basically a “self deliverance “ and im not really sure is that is a biblical way of deliverance
2 Timothy 2:24-26 12:27
@@sustainingpurpose4922 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
That passage doesn't talk about self deliverance, it says that repentance and the knowledge of the truth makes you free
SOZO is a rewired model based on Neil Anderson or Pablo Bottari models (great ones!), but im not very sure if it replaces "power encounters" that are modeled by Jesus and the Apostles
Trinitarian question: We know the distinctions between the persons of the Trinity via their relationship to each other within one unitive being [one will, personality, inseparable operations, etc.]. The Father gives Jesus; Jesus reveals the Father; Holy Spirit leads us into truth and remind us of Jesus' teaching and testifies of our adoption to the Father. I fully grasp the concern regarding overdisntiction in the Father Ladder with our earthly relationships. Is it biblical, however, to have relationship with the persons of Trinity because while they are fully one, they have different roles within the Godhead in their relations to us and within the Godhead [Father is not Son; Son is Not Holy Spirit; Holy Spirit is Not Father, etc]?
Would love a second conversation with Ken Fish on his integrated model
How would you guys address the claims that sozo mimics new age “spirit guides” and spirit walking? I completely believe in inner healing, however their methods concern me and concern many others too in that they look strangely like new age practices. This obviously isn’t the only way Bethel has been accused of new age-y practices
Physics of heaven is new age, using tarot cards for evangelism is new age, but I can not see how this is new age. It may look similar to new age, but stretching looks similar to yoga, and muslim prayer looks like christian prayer, but there is no substantive connection that I can see.
Again, to be clear, sozo is not helpful, nor do I think its biblical, that being said IDK why it has to be labeled "new age". thats my two cents, I could totally be persuaded out of my position, I don't hold it emphatically.
I just think people are sensitive to the largest growing cult group in America (new age and the cult) and the similarities have people falsely labeling.
Because it uses visualization techniques and they are new age
@@TheRemnantRadio it’s helpful to call something what it is and SOZO is rooted in New Age practices. Bill Johnson even talks about reclaiming the New Age. It’s kinda obvious for anyone who has eyes to see and ears to hear.
@@TaylorBibleGuy i think you are confusing Chris V, and Bill. Chris says that we should reclaim the new age in his contribution to Phisics of heaven. that's why I openly condemned it in my prior coment.
Maybe Bill said that as well, but you would have to provide me with a recit, so that I can condemn that too.
I think you may be misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not claiming that there are no visualization teqniques in the New Age, I am merely suggesting that visualization tequniques can come from multiple sources and look similar this does not mean that they are the same.
@ yes but this source has already aligned themselves with New Age practices… it’s like you are being intentionally obtuse.
And whether bill said it or not he endorsed it and co authored it.
I received a medically verified physical healing at a Vineyard in 2003. Also had a few encounters with the LORD and much emotional healing as well.
45:11 The late David Wilkerson prophesied psychology would enter the church. I think theres a lot of it in our modern churches. Personally, God is undoing that and showing me how weak it is compared to His Word and Spirit as the only means to life and true freedom.
can you direct me toward this prophecy? I am looking for a prophecy about psychology in the church. I have been looking for a few hours, I cant find it. We do have links disabled on this page, so maybe just tell me what to search.
I’m trying to figure out what to do because I feel called to help people with holistic/inner healing work. I have a graduate certificate in mental health studies but stopped short of the masters in counseling because of the restrictions with the state. Biblical counseling is cessationist and Calvinist and I’m neither of those. Sozo seems too new age & not super helpful. But there’s gotta be something I’m missing.
My one question is, why is it something we have to be trained on if the disciples just were given the power to? I mean yes they watched Jesus, and yes they came to him with questions, so you could make an argument for “training”. But they didn’t have a course on how to cast out a demon using Sozo 101. They were just given the power to and told to do it and watch it happen. And then those disciples gave the power to the 70 and then to the 120. so everybody was doing the work of the ministry. is this then more of a renewal of mind practice rather than dealing with the spiritual world?
Of course, I agree that Sozo isn’t biblical. But the Bible also doesn’t lay out specific instructions on how to evangelize Hindus or Muslims, craft sermons with illustrations, explanations, and applications, or use platforms like RUclips to share the gospel. Yet, I have no problem with someone using logic, communication skills, or technology-gifts of common grace-to spread the gospel, just as I don’t oppose the use of counseling as a means of guided sanctification.
@@TheRemnantRadio so true. And I like what Rowntree (I’m totally butchering that. My apologies hahah) how he said inner healing and casting out demons are two separate things, tho they can relate to one another
So, what I can gather from this talk is that Bethel's Sozo (as opposed to other brands of inner healing) does not (1) do Deliverance as part of their Sozo, and (2) does not always link the 3 members of the Trinity in its counseling sessions. Is this a correct rendering of your point? Are there any other points that I am missing?
It would be a fair question to ask - what are the psychological studies that underpin the 'Father ladder'. Like how big were the sample groups, over how long were the studies, etc etc. If there's no hard psychological data to back up this theory (cause there's nothing biblical) then you gotta say it all seems arbitrary and therefore pointless.
I think thats a great point!
I'm part of a church that has bethel links & hence a Sozo ministry.
This was a good evaluation by you guys @remnantradio
I have been thru a sozo myself & didn't really think it was that useful, although I know people who have & did (esp if they had parent issues where they then viewed God thru those lenses e.g. distant father meant God is distant).
But sozo is not deliverance - 100% agree - and some sozo.ministers also do deliverance, sometimes in same session.
All that said, your critique is valid - I felt like it was a bit formulaic, too much emphasis on "father ladder" as you called it. Not everything is a daddy issue, and maybe some ministers bring in too much pop psychology without knowing enough on that front - but maybe that's true for a lot of pastoral counsellors too.
(I'm.not saying psychology has the right answer either, but just that pop psychology can be really bad - e.g. every selfish person is a narcissist nowadays)
But bless Bethel for at least doing this as an inner healing course - they may not always be right, but they are trying to see the Kingdom of God break through into people's lives.
So again, well done on a balanced review.
Now go kick out some demons ;)
I wish she would expound on why do they talk about this father ladder. And they say if you have problems with the Holy Spirit must mean you have some problems with your mother. What scripture reference would that be about
Did you say Rock Port, MO this weekend? I don’t live far from there. That something open to non-church members?
Actually I was there last weekend. We prerecorded this episode. I thought it was going to air the week before. Sorry about the confusion.
Thank you.
hope its helpful
Would love to get ahold of Michael’s journal on healing that he mentioned in this video. How can I access this?
I’ve always struggled with SOZO and never recommend it.
You can find it here: overcomersjournal.com/shop - Thanks!
I’d be interested in this journal Michael Miller- is it available somewhere?
Here you go! overcomersjournal.com/shop
Lol what in the world was the opening countdown? Just to see Michael smiling awkwardly into the camera 😂😂😂
we try and make sure he is not the first face you see LOL. Unfortunately I was training some Missionaries in Maui, so... you guys had to see his face first LOL
@@TheRemnantRadio Hahaha! Hey, the reality is that seeing Michael's face still brightened my day.
😂
Where on Lewes Delaware
Bethel tells new attendees with a Vineyard background that they took what Vineyard gave us to "a whole new level", which is complete garbage.
if thats true its pretty egotistical...
When you have had demons oppressing you for most if not all of your life you are going to be wounded and need healing.
For treating dissociative disorder how do you spell that word that sounds kinda like sh'bar??
He says "she has a book" who is "she"???
SOZO is New Age. The fact that you (Remannt Radio) can’t see that when Bill Johnson literally co authored a “Christian Book” about reclaiming the New Age is mind boggling to me.
Thanks Remnant guys for this. I'm hoping you'll do a similar analysis of TPM (Transformation Prayer Ministry) which my church is very engaged in. I have some concerns about it, but not sure if im just being overly critical.
I am not familiar with TPM. what concerns specifically do you have?
I literally watched in the last week Melissa Dougherty's video that she about this a few years ago.
how do you think we did?
@@TheRemnantRadio I liked listening to it. I saw you guys took a much different angle, and gave Bethel much more of a benefit of the doubt. I think the main difference between your video and hers is that while she took a more clinical scientific approach by interviewing a Christian licensed counselor, you guys took a more spiritual approach, but both approaches still included theology which was definitely a must. She did mention how she felt it was good to balance the scientific and the spiritual and took both into account when it came to counseling, but I see you guys definitely expanded on the spiritual side more. I think it's an interesting application of how sometimes in scripture miracles happened, and other times more natural remedies where suggested for people, like someone drinking wine for their stomach. I like the part added about not trying to swoop in with the right answer during the person's most vulnerable time. The counselor Melissa brought on talked about trying help the patient find the right answer, and giving them the tools to come a to a good answer themselves, instead of just handing it to them on a silver platter of strictly what she thought, and I think those things parallel. Both of you guys definitely agreed an the Father Ladder being problematic, so there's unison there. I really liked Miller's addition of the demon story, and that even helped me think about things, and my anger and rage issues. Also, I felt for a second that I was watching Jesus talk when Miller was speaking. It partly might have been the hair and the beard, and the light shining from his window, but he showed us how to be kind and reassuring, and remind us that God really cares about our nutrition and that we treat ourselves well. Also I think that this video is far superior to Melissa's because her video didn't care to mention the Leprechaun Spirit who's out for your lucky charms. Tsk Tsk.
I know that Jesus can heal anything. However that is usually facilitated in the context of love, listening to the other person, and pointing them to Jesus, within the boundaries of the Scriptures. That gives room for the Holy Spirit to do what only God can do.
Jesus taught us how to pray, but that doesn't mean that we have to allow other people to tell us what to say. We should first discern whether it is in line with Scripture before we repeat anything. And other people need to respect our right to say no and not demand that we automatically say what they want us to repeat. Repeating a Scripture in context is great, but no one has any right to insist that we say anything else they want us to repeat.
That's a very disrespectful way to treat another adult. And it has cultish overtones.
People get extra Biblical ideas and then build an entire theology around those ideas. While this probably began with good motives, it sounds off track and dangerous to me now. When a ministry departs from the whole of Scripture but still claims to be under the power of the Holy Spirit, that ministry usually starts doing more harm than good and hurts more people than it helps.
Please, do an episode on Invicta Ministry (inner healing and deliverance), I would love to hear your view on it.
What do you know about it? where does it come from, how does it work as far as you know?
I do not see this as Freudian. This has much more to do with attachment coined by Bowlby and Ainsworth. The issues related to the Godhead and earthly family feels more like attachment traumas/ wounds.
Unpack that a little for me?
@@TheRemnantRadio thank you for reaching out. Bowlby and Ainsworth are the force behind Attachment Theory. It is a theoretical concept within the mental health arena that conceptualizes the struggles we have in relating to others initiated due to abuse or neglect during our developmental stages. From a very basic standpoint, my lack of love, support, attention.... during my developmental stages biases my perceptions of my interactions today. If my earthly parent inflicted harm or withheld love, affection, or basic necessities I may view the world as unsafe and undependable. At the same time, these traumas or wounds can also bias my sense of self ie, there must be something inherently wrong or broken within me if my family rejected or harmed me in such a significant manner. These beliefs can then transfer over to how I perceive and interact with the Godhead. There is no way God, Jesus, Holy Spirit will love me or be interested in me when my earthly family was not interested. Or my earthly family was chaotic or unsafe, why would God, Jesus, Holy Spirit be any different.
Obviously, holding these concepts loosely and not insisting that each person fall within each of those constructs becomes very dangerous. It is not a "one size fits all". These concepts should illicit a discussion and a curious exploration. They give a therapist a framework by which we can support the individual to explore their life experiences and some validation as to why they may view the world, or God from a belief that others are not safe.
I realize that I have attempted to condense a fairly robust theoretical orientation into a few lines on a RUclips response.
A good example of healing an attachment wound or trauma was described by you. It was very brave for you to share a very vulnerable part of yourself with the world-at-large! You experienced an attachment trauma or wound but the wound was healed as you formed a bond and relationship with God as Father and then were surroundied by other Godly men who challenged the core belief that fathers leave, are not to be trusted.....It may have also challenged a core belief that there was something inherently wrong with you for your father to break the natural order of things and align with another family. I am speaking very loosely and not attempting to "read your mind".
These concepts are a framework for structuring conversations not making assumptions. It becomes dangerous when we have to force everyone to line up with our narrow view.
John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth are the two forces behind the development of this school of thought. I hope that I have not overwhelmed you with my discussion and greatly appreciate the offer to share further.
Advanced sozo has deliverance in it
If you haven't already can you please do a video on the Spanish inquisition
We have not done that... but that may be an interesting show!
It was said 38min into the video "The persons of the Trinity only has one will"
Jesus said in Luke 22:42
Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
This clearly shows that Jesus has his own will but always submits himself to the Father. The same with the Holy Spirit in John 16: 12-15
The beauty if the Trinity is the 3 persons of the Godhead is they work as one.
How the Trinity can be viewed is that we serve one God with 3 revelations of the one God. Each person of theTrininity has its distinct role & function, yet one
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4. There are different kinds of gifts, but the SAME SPIRIT distributes them.
5. There are different kinds of service, but the SAME LORD.
6. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone, it is the SAME GOD at work.
Have you guys ever addressed EMDR therapy?
That would be a great episode for these guys to address!
Wow, this is sad. Jesus said pray like this, not repeat after me. These are subjects, categories and most of all the heart of prayer, not a mantra to be recited over and over. This is on the dangerous slide toward witchcraft, which so many in charismania follow. "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, come out!" Its time to burn the ritualistic scrolls in repentance and return to the Lord with all our hearts. As far as Bethel and Sozo is concerned, Scripture is clear, have nothing to do with them. "I wouldn't send my kids there" doesn't cut it. Have you not wondered why those who condemned common Christian practice as dead ritual become even more repetitively dead than those they have broken away from? Repetition is the mother of charismatic invention.
Yes this! It’s like Miller wants this to be true so bad he’s misusing scriptures to make his point. Nothing he quotes supports the practice of inner healing.
Jesus also prayed the Shema in the morning and the evening. Recitation has been a very common practice for the purpose of memorization and meditation for all of world history.
What matters is the validity of the statements in the recitation. We can all agree with the truths in the Shema. We can all agree with the Lord's prayer, as well as the whole of Scripture. So it's good to recite them and meditate on them.
We need to distinguish when we are repeating without testing from when we are praying a scripted prayer.
Good to see Miller out of the basement
Psalms 23 addresses inner healing. He GOD RESTORES OUR Soul. No Man Can Fix Your Mind Will Or Emotions Except THE LORD JESUS. So these people SHOULD STOP TRYING!! You guys have Beams sticking out of your eyes while you are trying to remove the splinter from their eye. That’s just another crazy teaching from that group!!!!!!
We’re going to examine if the practice is biblical or not. Tune in Monday for the discussion!
Hey guys, just to be super clear, SOZO has nearly nothing original to it just like Restoring the Foundations. Over 50% is usually white labelled Elijah House practices (John and Paula Sandford). Ministry leaders reinvent the model so they can insert theological or practitioner preferences, as well as not having to credit or absorb accreditation and submission structures to originators. Digging into the Sandford side will uncover the mix of mysticism, psychology and their scriptural interpretations to support the practices which you’d never get from a second or third generation version were its all just assumed and absorbed.
Another portion would be that they white labelled Leanne Payne’s Theophostic prayer ministry practice of inserting Jesus into existing traumatic experiences through a personally manufactured (guided) prayer experience. This is supposed to alter and implant memories to reframe and reinterpret traumatic experience. It is highly formulaic. Other inspirations can be derived from Agnes Sanford, Ruth Carter Stapleton, Charles Fill ore and Francis Macnutt. Due to controversy DeSilva denies TPM practices are absorbed in Sozo but for those i undated im the material it is utterly undeniable.
What would be most interesting is that you would have on a field leading christian psychologist such as Dianne Langberg or someone that qualified to discuss and critique how helpful these methods would be from a clinical and trauma informed perspective. Especially helpful with a tidal wave of new victims that feel released to seek help from Gateway, IHOP and Morningstar (and maybe more to come) you guys could use your powerful influence in our space to guide our fellow young charismatics into seeking productive means of therapy where needed.
For corroborating testimony of the Sandfords mystical practices look no further than their spiritual son David Herzogs book Glory Invasion, in case that helps your research. Also for the mix of Inner Healing and Deliverance look up Johns book of this title. Has helpful elements and elements that I’d really wonder about your take.
Because they lean on the Elijah house model, deliverance is often brought back to an interpretation of binding the strong man where unattended ‘wounds’ will make deliverance temporary and ineffective. I think this makes some sense psychologically but isn’t always echoed in NT passages. Also they divide up demonic activity in four categories: momentary visitation, structural oppression, obsession with sin or dark themes and then full posession, the latter of which is rare. I have encountered the latter only a few times in remote parts of the world but the person is literally a chained up vessel where a demonic force is occupying and steering them 24/7. Anything less than that is not considered posession. A lot of oppression is already alleviated by bringing about closure to points of entry and inviting in Jesus or softly rebuking and binding/casting out the oppressing force. I can attest to this ministry wise (experientially) but the theology on this should be tested as its foundational to all big inner healing ministries from RTF, EH, Heartsync, Sozo all the way to the smaller historic or current day versions
I want to really advise against suggesting people to go about inner healing to integrate MPD and especially if related to SRA. I will not go into detail as to why here but the primary has to be to be aligned with a professional therapist and the inner healing ministry to be guided and subservient to that trajectory.
Agree by the way on people often casting out emotion and misinterpreting stored trauma as demonic. Discernment is key, if handled as deliverance this is often retraumatizing
Hawaii does have a lot of need there. I know someone out there now. Beautiful views don’t hurt lol!
Well I enjoyed my time there. tried to do 40 lectures in 4 days. it was exausitng
I minister inner healing to people using this model. If people come open, it is usually very powerful and does include deliverance. I've seen some amazing transformations! My favorite tool is "healing of wounded memories". I always see them have a breakthrough when they are able to see where Jesus was in a particular negative memory.
I'm glad you get results but Jesus watches in room as your getting abused is weird to me. Thank you Lord for watching and not intervening?
@TallyFlOSU well, the Lord is so brilliant and creative, that somehow it works as usually what he shows them is very profound and helps them to be able to move beyond that painful memory.
Thats cool my brother God bless you.@purpleyak-t7g
Jesus wasnt identifying himself with the psalmist.... he wa was the literal fulfilment of the psalm. Psalms 22 is Davids prophecy of jesus in that very moment. he was drawing attention to that fact by reciting it. but point taken.
Inner Healing isn’t in the Bible. The scriptures Miller quoted don’t support the idea. Unless you can show me Jesus or the Disciples or anyone in the church for that matter spending a couple hours showing you how your “Mother Wounds” relate to your relationship with the Holy Spirit. 😂 utterly ridiculous.
@@TaylorBibleGuy I felt the same after an inner healing ministry was abused in my church. This scripture made me rethink:
Psalm 147:3 "He heals the broken-hearted and binds up their wounds."
God really can and does heal trauma and inner pain, just as he can do outward healings.
@ yes God does this, amen! That verse makes no reference to “inner healing” as it’s practiced in the charismatic church. This verse is referring to the inner work of the Holy Spirit that is done in spite of us NOT because we “did the work”.
@@TaylorBibleGuy Were in agreement then. I have been able to pray with people and see them recieve inner healing but not by virtue of a method, but because of God's grace.
@ receive is the key word, as soon as you ad: we have to visualize this or say this now it becomes something else.
How is this not a pagan philosophical practice??
This is all so subjective. Its like your just gambling on whether your going to help someone or confuse and traumatize them with these experiences. It gives me the creeps. I was at ihop for a long time and i could never get on board with this kind of stuff.
That’s because you have discernment and wisdom. Plus it’s not in the Bible.
Does anyone ever agree with every ministry in church. I certainly don’t agree with some of the stuff you guys have said like Sam storm doesn’t believe that everyone who’s baptized in the Holy Spirit can speak with tongues to speak with tongues. Roundtree I believe is part of a denomination believes in infant baptism.
There’s no guided meditations
I’m only 35 minutes in maybe you guys will condemn it by the end of the
38"- Jesus's r'ships with his family were a bit bumpy/not so great on their end. He also made a number of comments about him/the gospel dividing/causing conflict in earthly families (i.e. Matt. 10:21, 34-37). Being a follower of Jesus does not mean things will be perfect with your earthly family; anything but!
True!
Inner Healing ministries in general aren’t biblical. Most of them are pragmatic at best and New Age at worst.
It’s just Scientology with different avatars
Interesting take but I do see how you got there. 😂 funny and partially true.
This sounds like shadow work or Family Constellations- from a christian paradigm.
Can you explain what Shadow work is?
@TheRemnantRadio It's using tools like guided imagery, meditaion, journaling etc., to understand the unconscious reasons behind the way you think or behave. The practice can be used to heal past trauma or bring truth to false beliefs about yourself that manifest in destructive or self sabotaging patterns of behavior. You can look up Carl Jung to learn more.
Sounds a lot like psychology, be careful with that, inner healing took place at the cross
Zo~S~o Paige.
Not to mention that what we have in written form called the Bible is only a fraction of all Jesus did in His time on earth. As well as everything the disciples did. I think the Bible box has severely hindered the actual movement of Holy Spirit. Obviously Jesus did nothing that contradicts what is written but I don’t think the examples we are given are the end all.
Great perspective.
Formulas=witchcraft...Let the Holy Spirit work...🔥⚒️
"Formulas=witchcraft" seems to be a dangerous over simplification...
I really miss watching you guys. Such a shame Josh has been ideologically captured by Big Tech. 😢
@paulral Where in my comment did I say I was afraid?
@@honestmann747okay you are brave, now explain why the use of LLMs has disqualified Josh and RR for you
@@paulral figure it out yourself bro
@@honestmann747 you realize that big tech doesn't own LLMs and you can build them yourself with a decent hardware setup?
There are open sourced models in the public domain
@@paulral I do, and I have done so myself. Is that what Josh did? Regardless I have elucidated my views on generative "ai" at very great length on other platforms. RUclips comments section is not a discussion board, and I have no responsibility to yield to your command to "explain," stranger.
To answer this question, we need church lady Holly Pivik to give us an interview and demonstrate the superior dance. Only the Church lady can tell us whether or not healing rooms are biblical. “So let’s see your bill Johnson, heretic, and son of Satan, isn’t that special?”
I never like the tone here... like they are the authority and not the Word. I think they by and large come to the right conclusion on the major points, but only by the common cliche approaches to the problem, missing the larger field yet instudied.
Lpp ...🎉
Ugh…Are you promoting SOZO?!
No. We always try to call balls and strikes. So while we can see the desire for Sozo to help people with inner healing (and support the need to heal the broken hearted), there are enough negatives with Sozo to not recommend it.
And you guys are handling (twisting) scripture in a horrible way to fit the sozo practice. I usually like you guys but this video is extremely disappointing
We try to call balls and strikes. Hope you watched the full video where we also add our concerns about the negative aspects of Sozo.
@ I did like I said I was a with for over 7 years and did when I was a charasmatic. Sozo is one big bright red x. With absolutely 0 scriptural authority