The amount of money that the GB have in their vault is more than what you're thinking most nobles have. That is actually discussed in the book. It's made clear that there are very few people that could afford to hire a bondsmagi, much less actually keep them on retainer. Your problem with the power of names is also solved in this book. The bondsmagi are said to be very secretive and no one knows that they could use your name in the way they do. There is no reason for the public to think their names can be used to manipulate them. Even the GBs had no clue and were surprised when that happened. It is true that the bondsmagi, their background, rules, and origins are expanded upon in the next couple of books that give good explanations to some of the problems you had with the book. It doesn't feel like a retcon when you read it either. It just makes sense in context. We learn about these aspects alongside the main characters. They know very little about the bondsmagi in the beginning, and consequently so do we. I understand not wanting to wait to read future books to have answers to your questions about the first book. I guess it just wasn't a problem for me. I assumed that there were reasons for why things were the way they are in this world. In my head it just presents as more of an interesting mystery rather than something that ruins the story for me. I think that's just the nature of many fantasy stories involving magic. It can be easy to question the rules of the magic system and the seeming plot holes when we don't have a clear picture.
Thank you for that comment, I couldn't have said it better! I felt the same about this first book, though I agree it's kind of a popcorn read (but with excellent prose which elevated it for me and satisfied my adventurous heart). I'm curious to see how the character work improves in the other books (should be reading the next one in July) and I'm also giving Lynch a chance to answer those questions I had (I was also bothered by the bondsmagi seeming almost untouchable). I've read Abercrombie's First Law trilogy and you certainly don't get all the answers by the end, but enough for me to love it (but I agree great themes are also very important for me, and he did succeed in that in a way Lynch didn't... yet?). I guess I've decided just to trust the process. And I mean, that writing style was exquisitely immersive and I'm ready to be back into that world already!
Its the fantasy version of a generic Netflix series. Good writing. Good dialogue. Interesting set up. Falls apart at the end. Mostly sets up future stories. That being said I do like it a lot. You've just got to know what you're getting into which isn't exactly a "classic" but is still worth reading!
I think Lies doesn’t work for me on the basis of it being a mystery/thriller/heist story that, paradoxically, has little mystery and is actually quite slow (thanks in large part to the many flashbacks). So, it’s left to succeed on its style, voice, and charm-all of which I found to be adequate, but not as enrapturing as many seem to.
wow....we felt exactly the same about this book. Sky-high expectations, initially into it in the opening act (especially because of Father Chains!). But I found myself disengaging more and more as the story went on, never caring about any of the characters and also feeling like the Bondsmage stuff was way way way way way way way overpowered and clumsy in terms of the storytelling. This is a fantasy series I think that built up its hype through being a starter adult fantasy series for many with often a clever/fun voice, but for vets it falls way short on so many fronts.
Gentleman Bastards marks a specific point in my journey through modern fantasy. I read it around the same time I read Way of Kings and initially loved it. Your popcorn descriptor perfectly identifies why enjoyed it. Lies was a fun little jaunt with likeable characters that had well choreographed action. However, as I read more fantasy over the years the likeable cast/good action combo quickly became generic. I needed more and unfortunately Gentleman Bastards doesn't have more to give. Much of your critique in the spoiler part of your review touches on the "more" I want but not all. A key issue for me is that these rogues aren't anyway close to being bastards. They read more like the trope of the "loveable rogue" than real characters who are lifelong criminals. The likeability that I enjoyed as a new reader now feels like a failure of characterisation and world fidelity. Anyways great review, keep doing you.
Yeah, I agree with your bondsmage criticism in this book. There is more information later, but your comments are totally fair. I like these books because of the dialogue and the friendships. And I think that’s the reason why the series is so popular. The flashbacks are great and continue to be. The hijinks Locke and Jean get into are always ridiculous. But I don’t actually think books 2 and 3 improve on the series. I still think book 1 is the best. However, whenever book 4 comes out, the end of book 3 does have a major shift in plot and tone. There is a HUGE reveal, which I won’t spoil in case you ever decide to continue the series. It appears Lynch is actually setting up for a more epic fantasy story from book 4 onward. Again, no one knows because we’ve been waiting for the next book for ages.
I think you're spot-on with the popcorn recommendation. I usually call it blockbuster fantasy and that's the same. One huge drawback for me was the fact that ew don't get any insight into the charactercharacter's emotions or thoughts. We only get their actions and never their motives, no inner monologues, streams of consciousness or the likes and that makes it fall flat in a lot of ways for me. I never got beyond the first chapter of the second book and am currently not tempted to give it another try.
I've been rereading it. I enjoy his descriptions, but yeah I really see what you mean by there being little internal monologue. You just don't get the character insights you get from other series.
I agree with the bondsmage making the plot feel like of cheap. But I think as far as people having them on retainer, I think there is a clear difference in hiring one for a month project and paying the combined fortune of both GBs and barsavi for it vs the duke or anyone else having one on retainer for an indefinite amount of time.
You make a lot of great points. It's been a while since I read this book, but the Bondsmage always felt weird to me in this book, despite my overall feeling of delight with this book. there are definitely some worldbuilding discrepancies in this book. I forgot about the Grey King, tbh. It was a forgettable reveal, tbh. I do think the second book was better, but it scratched my pirate itch, so I'm biased.
Thanks for the review Andy! Managing expectations can be so tricky when things get hyped up. FILO P.S. I'm no candle expert but does it get very hot above it? 😬Disregard this if I'm overly worrying... I'm just on high alert after a house in my neighbourhood burned down from a candle!
It's funny how I respond to rant reviews of books I love, I always click on those being offended and ready to hate the video and I always end up thinking "well this person has an interesting take on the book I'm glad I heard about their point of view cause it gives me things to think about" and I'm never offended or mad in the end x)
Damn, owned. I remember having a fun time with these many years ago when the author was still putting them out. But yeah sometimes an inconsistency just ruins the whole thing for ya. Been there.
Yeah, the Grey King being able to afford a bondsmagi and the Duke not having one on retainer was odd, especially when you find out the background of the King. Also him not having a personal connection to the GBs made him feel flatter than he should've been. Still, the rest of the book made it a top a read for me. I plan to read the other two books soon.
It just felt a little odd a random pirate guy managed to save enough treasure to make the initial investment to hire one for months when its suppose to be too much for the wealthiest of this world's rulers to do so. I also get that the promise of the GBs' trove further closes this loophole, but I felt there should have been a more personal connection to Locke and friends for the Grey King to know about it. Overall though it doesn't make the book fall apart for me. It's just a minor quibble.
Tried to read this book twice (once in print and then on audible). I was disappointed too. So, so BORING. For me it was unfinishable. And I really wanted to like it.
That book was not at all my thing. I didn't enjoy the plot and time jumping or any of the characters. Happy to not be the only one because it feels very unusual.
The money in locks hideout was on par with the Salvara family. Again, locks money paid for a month. The entire treasury of the salvaras would pay for a month. This is really annoying, they actually debunked your own criticism but you was too focused on getting a rant review out to notice it
Uhhh one of the few times I totally disagree with you. I kind of get your point with the magi and why the mage is somewhat story-breaking but I think there are two main points against it. First of you don't only need money to hire a mage. You also need the mage to actually accept the contract your offering. An second alot of the other points you raise do get answered in later books. Sure it could be considered a failing of the book itself that it does not go into detail about it. But the same criticism could be leveled against a lot of other fantasy books. Why do the tiste do what they do in gardens? Why doesn't every person in the malazan cities have a personal magician if they are so powerful? These questions and apperant inconsistentencies don't make Gardens of the Moon a worse book. Because they are so far removed from what Gardens is about. The same goes for the lies of Locke Lamora. Are there a thousand little details that can explain away every perceived inconsistentency? Sure. Some of them haven't been revealed yet, some of them will never be revealed. But they aren't revealed in Lies because that is fundemantally not what Lies is about. It's about Locke and his friends, the bond between them, the shaking up of the underworld and the desperate improvisation that happens when the best layed plans of mice and men fail. I appreciate that the book isn't for you and I even totally get why. But I think the book succeedes in the way it wants to succeed. And some elements of the writing are an incredibly unique breath of fresh air for the entire category of fantasy. On a closing note obviously you like what you like and it's completely understandable that some books just don't vibe with you. I just wanted to offer a different perspective and a different take on the books, because I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about the usefulness and necessity of narrative consistency and when it's ok to break it. On a different note I would be really interested in your take on the Ibis trilogy by Amitav Gosh. I think it could be a really interesting series for you to talk about because it has a specific and individual relation to postmodernism and postcolonial fiction
Yeah, I think your summation of it as a pop action book is exactly correct. It's very fun, and I have a lot of draw to specific scenes (e.g. the Teeth Show along makes this a book I want to see as a movie real bad) - but as a whole it's not like world changing*. It's like. Pirates of the Carribean or something. It's Fun! and that's enough, but it could be more. Sounds like a case of the wrong expectations unfortunately, glad you enjoyed it in general though (until the end). *If you do want something that has a bit more teeth, look at Heroes Die by Matt Stover. It's still very pop action (think Die Hard as a Fantasy novel) but there are some ideas at play that really elevate it to the next level.
@@AndySmithMN The later books in the series get more philosophical, which sounds good, but it's also more pretentious than is really fun to read. 2nd book is cool, but Heroes Die can definitely be read as a stand alone easily.
The lies of Locke lamora wasn't great to me but I did enjoy the red seas under red skies and the Republic of thieves so much more than the first book I will be reading the fourth book when it comes out
I don't remember any of the plot since its been 4 years but I was only eh on it, like it was a good time but I didn't love any of the characters that much.
@@markymarkzero yup the 12 Sanderson books I like invalidate all the characters I love in the other 200+ books I have read in the past 5 years 🙄 Also I gave this book 4 stars so I did like it lol like what a rude comment to give someone who likes the same book as you
![Lies of Locke Lamora [SPOILER] Discussion With Friends!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oJvKNmqMtsE/mqdefault.jpg)
The amount of money that the GB have in their vault is more than what you're thinking most nobles have. That is actually discussed in the book. It's made clear that there are very few people that could afford to hire a bondsmagi, much less actually keep them on retainer. Your problem with the power of names is also solved in this book. The bondsmagi are said to be very secretive and no one knows that they could use your name in the way they do. There is no reason for the public to think their names can be used to manipulate them. Even the GBs had no clue and were surprised when that happened.
It is true that the bondsmagi, their background, rules, and origins are expanded upon in the next couple of books that give good explanations to some of the problems you had with the book. It doesn't feel like a retcon when you read it either. It just makes sense in context. We learn about these aspects alongside the main characters. They know very little about the bondsmagi in the beginning, and consequently so do we. I understand not wanting to wait to read future books to have answers to your questions about the first book. I guess it just wasn't a problem for me. I assumed that there were reasons for why things were the way they are in this world. In my head it just presents as more of an interesting mystery rather than something that ruins the story for me. I think that's just the nature of many fantasy stories involving magic. It can be easy to question the rules of the magic system and the seeming plot holes when we don't have a clear picture.
Thank you for that comment, I couldn't have said it better! I felt the same about this first book, though I agree it's kind of a popcorn read (but with excellent prose which elevated it for me and satisfied my adventurous heart). I'm curious to see how the character work improves in the other books (should be reading the next one in July) and I'm also giving Lynch a chance to answer those questions I had (I was also bothered by the bondsmagi seeming almost untouchable). I've read Abercrombie's First Law trilogy and you certainly don't get all the answers by the end, but enough for me to love it (but I agree great themes are also very important for me, and he did succeed in that in a way Lynch didn't... yet?). I guess I've decided just to trust the process. And I mean, that writing style was exquisitely immersive and I'm ready to be back into that world already!
Its the fantasy version of a generic Netflix series.
Good writing. Good dialogue. Interesting set up. Falls apart at the end. Mostly sets up future stories.
That being said I do like it a lot. You've just got to know what you're getting into which isn't exactly a "classic" but is still worth reading!
I think Lies doesn’t work for me on the basis of it being a mystery/thriller/heist story that, paradoxically, has little mystery and is actually quite slow (thanks in large part to the many flashbacks). So, it’s left to succeed on its style, voice, and charm-all of which I found to be adequate, but not as enrapturing as many seem to.
wow....we felt exactly the same about this book. Sky-high expectations, initially into it in the opening act (especially because of Father Chains!). But I found myself disengaging more and more as the story went on, never caring about any of the characters and also feeling like the Bondsmage stuff was way way way way way way way overpowered and clumsy in terms of the storytelling. This is a fantasy series I think that built up its hype through being a starter adult fantasy series for many with often a clever/fun voice, but for vets it falls way short on so many fronts.
Gentleman Bastards marks a specific point in my journey through modern fantasy. I read it around the same time I read Way of Kings and initially loved it. Your popcorn descriptor perfectly identifies why enjoyed it. Lies was a fun little jaunt with likeable characters that had well choreographed action. However, as I read more fantasy over the years the likeable cast/good action combo quickly became generic. I needed more and unfortunately Gentleman Bastards doesn't have more to give.
Much of your critique in the spoiler part of your review touches on the "more" I want but not all. A key issue for me is that these rogues aren't anyway close to being bastards. They read more like the trope of the "loveable rogue" than real characters who are lifelong criminals. The likeability that I enjoyed as a new reader now feels like a failure of characterisation and world fidelity.
Anyways great review, keep doing you.
Yeah, I agree with your bondsmage criticism in this book. There is more information later, but your comments are totally fair. I like these books because of the dialogue and the friendships. And I think that’s the reason why the series is so popular. The flashbacks are great and continue to be. The hijinks Locke and Jean get into are always ridiculous. But I don’t actually think books 2 and 3 improve on the series. I still think book 1 is the best.
However, whenever book 4 comes out, the end of book 3 does have a major shift in plot and tone. There is a HUGE reveal, which I won’t spoil in case you ever decide to continue the series. It appears Lynch is actually setting up for a more epic fantasy story from book 4 onward. Again, no one knows because we’ve been waiting for the next book for ages.
Ooooh the candle in the bookshelf gives me anxiety
I think you're spot-on with the popcorn recommendation. I usually call it blockbuster fantasy and that's the same. One huge drawback for me was the fact that ew don't get any insight into the charactercharacter's emotions or thoughts. We only get their actions and never their motives, no inner monologues, streams of consciousness or the likes and that makes it fall flat in a lot of ways for me. I never got beyond the first chapter of the second book and am currently not tempted to give it another try.
2nd book doesn't improve anything, AND doesn't have the spectacle of the first either. I never got beyond it.
I've been rereading it. I enjoy his descriptions, but yeah I really see what you mean by there being little internal monologue. You just don't get the character insights you get from other series.
@@AndySmithMN Of course we get motivations?
Andy is back...
FUCK YEA DOOD
Waiting to see what I think of this!
I agree with the bondsmage making the plot feel like of cheap. But I think as far as people having them on retainer, I think there is a clear difference in hiring one for a month project and paying the combined fortune of both GBs and barsavi for it vs the duke or anyone else having one on retainer for an indefinite amount of time.
You make a lot of great points. It's been a while since I read this book, but the Bondsmage always felt weird to me in this book, despite my overall feeling of delight with this book. there are definitely some worldbuilding discrepancies in this book. I forgot about the Grey King, tbh. It was a forgettable reveal, tbh. I do think the second book was better, but it scratched my pirate itch, so I'm biased.
Thanks for the review Andy! Managing expectations can be so tricky when things get hyped up.
FILO
P.S.
I'm no candle expert but does it get very hot above it? 😬Disregard this if I'm overly worrying... I'm just on high alert after a house in my neighbourhood burned down from a candle!
I've read this book twice and have literally zero recollection of bondsmiths. Popcorn, indeed!
It's funny how I respond to rant reviews of books I love, I always click on those being offended and ready to hate the video and I always end up thinking "well this person has an interesting take on the book I'm glad I heard about their point of view cause it gives me things to think about" and I'm never offended or mad in the end x)
Hi 👋 great honest review video!! Happy reading to you!! 😊👋
Damn, owned. I remember having a fun time with these many years ago when the author was still putting them out. But yeah sometimes an inconsistency just ruins the whole thing for ya. Been there.
Another book falls short from high expectations. We’ve all been there , loved hearing your thoughts!
How the f would Salvara afford a bonds magi when grey King (who had about as much) could only afford one for one month.
Yeah, the Grey King being able to afford a bondsmagi and the Duke not having one on retainer was odd, especially when you find out the background of the King. Also him not having a personal connection to the GBs made him feel flatter than he should've been. Still, the rest of the book made it a top a read for me. I plan to read the other two books soon.
But, no it wasn't... im genuinely asking. How could the Duke have afforded the bonds magi on retainer?
It just felt a little odd a random pirate guy managed to save enough treasure to make the initial investment to hire one for months when its suppose to be too much for the wealthiest of this world's rulers to do so. I also get that the promise of the GBs' trove further closes this loophole, but I felt there should have been a more personal connection to Locke and friends for the Grey King to know about it.
Overall though it doesn't make the book fall apart for me. It's just a minor quibble.
Tried to read this book twice (once in print and then on audible). I was disappointed too. So, so BORING. For me it was unfinishable. And I really wanted to like it.
That book was not at all my thing. I didn't enjoy the plot and time jumping or any of the characters. Happy to not be the only one because it feels very unusual.
The money in locks hideout was on par with the Salvara family. Again, locks money paid for a month. The entire treasury of the salvaras would pay for a month. This is really annoying, they actually debunked your own criticism but you was too focused on getting a rant review out to notice it
Uhhh one of the few times I totally disagree with you. I kind of get your point with the magi and why the mage is somewhat story-breaking but I think there are two main points against it. First of you don't only need money to hire a mage. You also need the mage to actually accept the contract your offering. An second alot of the other points you raise do get answered in later books. Sure it could be considered a failing of the book itself that it does not go into detail about it. But the same criticism could be leveled against a lot of other fantasy books. Why do the tiste do what they do in gardens? Why doesn't every person in the malazan cities have a personal magician if they are so powerful? These questions and apperant inconsistentencies don't make Gardens of the Moon a worse book. Because they are so far removed from what Gardens is about. The same goes for the lies of Locke Lamora. Are there a thousand little details that can explain away every perceived inconsistentency? Sure. Some of them haven't been revealed yet, some of them will never be revealed. But they aren't revealed in Lies because that is fundemantally not what Lies is about. It's about Locke and his friends, the bond between them, the shaking up of the underworld and the desperate improvisation that happens when the best layed plans of mice and men fail. I appreciate that the book isn't for you and I even totally get why. But I think the book succeedes in the way it wants to succeed. And some elements of the writing are an incredibly unique breath of fresh air for the entire category of fantasy. On a closing note obviously you like what you like and it's completely understandable that some books just don't vibe with you. I just wanted to offer a different perspective and a different take on the books, because I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about the usefulness and necessity of narrative consistency and when it's ok to break it.
On a different note I would be really interested in your take on the Ibis trilogy by Amitav Gosh. I think it could be a really interesting series for you to talk about because it has a specific and individual relation to postmodernism and postcolonial fiction
Yeah, I think your summation of it as a pop action book is exactly correct. It's very fun, and I have a lot of draw to specific scenes (e.g. the Teeth Show along makes this a book I want to see as a movie real bad) - but as a whole it's not like world changing*. It's like. Pirates of the Carribean or something. It's Fun! and that's enough, but it could be more. Sounds like a case of the wrong expectations unfortunately, glad you enjoyed it in general though (until the end).
*If you do want something that has a bit more teeth, look at Heroes Die by Matt Stover. It's still very pop action (think Die Hard as a Fantasy novel) but there are some ideas at play that really elevate it to the next level.
@@AndySmithMN The later books in the series get more philosophical, which sounds good, but it's also more pretentious than is really fun to read. 2nd book is cool, but Heroes Die can definitely be read as a stand alone easily.
The lies of Locke lamora wasn't great to me but I did enjoy the red seas under red skies and the Republic of thieves so much more than the first book I will be reading the fourth book when it comes out
I love this book and you jut broke my heart 😅
Yeah I wasn’t wild about the series
You have to be a genius to write a genius. Scott Lynch didn't have it.
I don't remember any of the plot since its been 4 years but I was only eh on it, like it was a good time but I didn't love any of the characters that much.
Not surprising when you’re using to cardboard, such as Sanderson’s.
@@markymarkzero yup the 12 Sanderson books I like invalidate all the characters I love in the other 200+ books I have read in the past 5 years 🙄
Also I gave this book 4 stars so I did like it lol like what a rude comment to give someone who likes the same book as you