1983 rodeo untouched 2L isuzu petrol engine made it to 1,145,000km before we retired it for a cheap gemini 1.8 from a wreck. Sounded like another exhaust when we would remove oil filler cap while running. Petrol to oil burning ratio was 5 to 1. Still reliable though.
The old boy has a HQ Ute on the farm. Hasn’t been registered in decades as not road worthy. Has just on 760,000 km on the clock. 202 has had one dismantle to replace rings only. Still runs like it always has. Great.
Sorry to be so off topic but does anybody know a trick to log back into an instagram account?? I stupidly forgot the password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me.
@Onyx Shepard Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
My comment is a bit late, however, i'm an old fart who has driven both these engines, the 186S, as a Traffic Patrol car and i owned a 72 HQ 202 for a few years. I'm not a mechanic, rather i take pride in my driving ability, I'm a driver. The 186S, was only an average cop car, it kept the rain off, 1st and 2nd gears were not alot of use in a quick start pursuit, almost as if governed to certain revs, though 3rd gear was very low torque and had considerable acceleration up to around 80 or 90 mph, after that it struggled somewhat. Bearing in mind it was common for us to travel over the 100mph during pursuits. We occasionally carried Loadometer heavy vehicle weighing scales in the boot and when i did so, the 186S handled like a dog, i dare not chase anyone with the scales onboard. Unloaded it was a tad light in the back end. I had that vehicle as a patrol car from brand new in 1967. Later i owned a 72 202 HQ manual, a completely different vehicle to the 186S. Superior handling, road holding ability, much greater acceleration, would easily attain speeds well over 100mph with out straining, (not many could shake me off on a winding country highway), great steering, very positive, one of the best cars i've owned in my lifetime. The only fault it had was the gears sometimes jammed between 1st and 2nd requiring me to get out to flick up the linkage , that was a pain. In my opinion, there was very little comparison with the two engines.
back then the 202 had a reputation for lifting the crowns off the pistons if revved too hard. And 6500 rpm out of a holden6? A bit hard to believe really. .
@@ihateemael I've seen a few 186's without piston tops too. More of a Holden parts thing, like all the D shaped exhaust valves with HOLDEN cast on the heads at the tip back in the day.
The slants were an excellent engine but under stress would blow the crankshaft caps off (about their only weakness) so stock car drivers used to use 4 bolt ones.
Slant sixes were pigs to work on the dizzy, pigs on fuel, only had 4 main bearings so not strong. The Hemi 6 was 4 times better. 186's were prone to seperate the tops off pistons, eat exhaust valves as fuel and strip timing gears and dizzy cogs if overheated. All could have been remedied by Holden with simple upgrades if they had cared enough. That said, the Hemi 6 was the best Aussie engine until the Barra came about.
@@rossbrumby1957 The 202 was the worst red motor for lifting the lids off pistons. That was my experience from 20 years in the reco business from the late seventies into the mid nineties. The holden engines were easy to recondition and were big sellers with a good profit margin. Fibre timing gears were never a good idea. It was suggested Holden buy the chrysler engine plant and use the Hemi in the commodore. Going on 60 now and i find myself driving a barra turbo. Ford has had the best engine blocks for durability right from the start its the reason they were always so popular as taxis.
Ain't technology marvellous? We used to cream our pants at 250hp from a Holden 6 back in the day, now a bone stock Honda K Series makes over 300hp, and that's a 2 litre 4 cylinder. And even that design is nearly 30 years old now, the new stuff is ridiculous. But with car makers putting their resources into electric now the current gen petrol engines are undoubtedly the best we'll ever see. It's kind of like when jet engines superseded prop planes at the end of WWII - those last gen piston-engined prop planes were MENTAL. Our car engines are being superseded by electric motors, but the last gen ICEs are FANTASTIC. I'd like to see a comparison between the carbs and a modern injection system too, just to see how much can be gained on an old 202. I know when Holden fitted an injection system to the 202 for the VK there were gains over the carb fed models, but EFI tech has come a long way since then. Admittedly the carb engines they compared with weren't using multiple weber setups, but still. I've seen other older engines (Datsun L series motors) see significant improvements when upgrading from webers to EFI. About the only thing that wasn't improved was the noise - that induction roar that webers make is unbeatable. Open throated EFI systems can sound fantastic too, but not quite the same. Cheers for the vid, very interesting stuff.
My ex wife had a Bitch K when I first met her. Her dad, and old hotrodder had built it for her. One time he brought his Dodge down from Byron for his mate's big event at Phillip Island. You all might remember John Katsanis and the Kustom Nats over New Year at the GP track. Anyway, we got to do a lap of about a third of the circuit in our cars, and my wife drove the old Kingswood with it's pearl paintjob and old kidney-bean dragways on the track. As we hit the starting line, old mate says to me, the passenger: No Burnouts, No wheelstands, Keep below 20 miles per hour. I said: Mate.....it's only a 161. I had to tell him a second time before he laughed his guts out. SO MUCH HORSEPOWER around that day, but not in that car.
186 bored 192 with 179 head on it, redline inlet manifold, holly 350 carby, extractors, cant remember cam, speco shifter 3 speed on floor, no synchro first, that was my first HT holden premier
Back in the day we used to put a 186 head on a 202 engine to increase static compression, but then we had leaded petrol, now you'll need hardened valve seats and run it on 98 unleaded or you'll get pinging that'll eventually wreck internals.
If you really wanted to increase your compression on a red motor the 161 and 149 had small kidney shaoed combustion chambers and you could plane more off until the thumbprints were gone. The major issue with the valves and seats was because the lead in the old fuel was a lubricant for the cast iron seats, none of the old holdens or falcons were suited to unleaded fuel ford got around it by fitting an alloy head which has valve seat inserts as all alloy heads have and holden got around it by fitting a Nissan engine.
one of the all time greatest engines ever built from 138 to 202 huge potential as shown here the limits are wherever you choose to take them. no comparison to a ford six boat anchor the Holden six has race wins by the hundreds and is still the best sounding six by far. A true icon
The popular thing for the red motor owner with money was to use the ford 221 stroker crank conversion. Still no way of keeping up with a 265 Hemi though.
@@Jpgundarun True the Ford will run a lot longer before it wears out its rings and cyls, the blocks are made out of better material i know as i have bored and honed a hell of a lot of them more holdens than fords and it takes a lot longer to hone the same amount of material out of the ford, that is why they were not a common sight in the reco workshops as they just didnt wear out like the holdens.
100yrs ago when I was a mad engineer 🤣....I glued a turbo charger off an old tractor to the side of a bog standard 186....no idea how much boost was being fed into it thru a 650 Holley, but at about 2grand, it would just spool up and go berserk....I got about 6 weeks of "experimental research " with it in an LJ torana before the head put a dent in the bonnet at full noise one night on King Street in Newcastle....red motors are just a grand thing .....
I always wanted Yella Terra Rolla Rockers in my Charger. I didn't even really know what they did but you just used read all these names and specs in muscle cars magazines and there were a bunch of things the same that every car had on its mod list so you wanted the same thing.
They were only a thing then because holdens heads were asthmatic and burned valves like crazy. Never needed yella terra heads for the Hemi 6, you couldn't put bigger valves in a 265 head- 1.96"inlet and 1.5" ex is huge. Don't need porting unless you're going drag racing either.
Last time i looked the company still exists but has changed its product line over the years. They actually produced a lot of heads for different versions of factory holdens and falcons over the years.
My land rover has a 186 in her. She was sitting for 5 years before I got my hands on her and within 2 hours she ran and drove. Indestructible engines. And im a ford supporter 😂
Even a stock Valiant 245 'll cane anything but a 202 in a high state of tune. I'd have probably bought a new 70s Valiant over a Falcon or Holden, simply because of the better engines. I mean, if you wanted sporty, you bought an Alfetta or 924.or even a Golf. The standard Holden 6 would be caned by these 1970s cars. Even a healthy & tuned Datsun 1200 in a light 1200 or 1000 body, ( not the heavier 120Y) would do it. Fat 120Ys & gutless Holdens that wouldn't start ( post mid 76) & detuned Europeans. " AUSTRALIA DESERVES BETTER MR SPEAKER, MR SPEAKER? Now, what are the automotive comprimises today ? ( of course, they'll tell us?)
Hmmm , i remember my dads HR holden premiere with a 186 in it , it didnt have a lot of miles on it , probably about 70,000 or something , you`d be sitting there at a red light and your valuable compression would be coming out of the tappet cover breather which was a thin steel tube clamped to the engine block ending about 6 inches from the tarmac , and and leaving the poor bastard next to you in a cloud of oily blow by fog :) , ah those where the days :) .
Old video I get it but a 13% increase in power for an 8% increase in cubic capacity tells me that all things are not equal and that the 202 engine has a better volumetric efficiency. Also a longer stroke motor making peak torque higher (>5,000rpm) than the short stroke version (4,800) is also suspect, as is the hole at 3,300 in the 202 curve. These engines or the dyno run conditions are are not equal by a fair margin.
Gotta love a little AC/DC! I remember the first time I saw them, late one night on Don Kirshners Rock Concert. It was a late night concert show on late Friday nights for teenagers and rock lovers. AC/DC opened for Black Oak Arkansas, which was a one hit wonder the played Jim Danny to the Rescue. I watched it to see what else they had in their album, and they sucked. But AC/DC blew my mind. All I could think is why are these guys opening for a one hit wonder. Song after song the rocked the house. My poor parents probably didn’t get much sleep for the first half hour of the show. The next Monday at school, a good handful of my friends had seen the shoe, the rest were out with thier girlfriends, but those who saw it all loved the show. Awesome stufffrim down under!
Iv taken a bit of flak for the music, but I’m with you, i grew up with AC/DC. I have another special six on the go and it’s going to be worth a follow a up video, no music this time🤣
just applying the percentage greater capacity (8.6%) to the 186's power figure would bring it to 263+hp, 10bhp under that 202. But I suppose other motors of each size with those same specs would all be slightly different
From what I’ve heard the combustion chambers on the larger bore Holden 6 engines work better than on smaller ones, not sure why exactly but I’m pretty sure it has something to do with the combustion chamber being wider than the bore on stock engines? I was surprised the 202 made power higher in the rev range than the smaller engine though.
The cost to build has changed dramatically over the years, thirty years ago this same combination would have cost 3-4K, a pimped up one of these you won’t get change out off 15k, back in 1989 I would remove Reco & refit back into the car for 1.5k, times have changed hey,
@@OctaneAlley I can say that if you worked in a reco shop back in the day you could build and engine better than that for a few hundred dollars but those webbers didn't come cheap under $1000 way back climbing to closer to $3000 years later
nice when they make that classic straight 6cyl roar... but most are fuel thirsty boat anchors now... and conrods no OHC? eeek.... lotta noise for not much puff these days. my KIA soccer mums car has as much grunt.
The Opel 6 cylinder engine is very different to the Vauxhall/Holden engine in that the Opel is a cam in head design where as the Vauxhall is a OHV i.e.. pushrod. The Vauxhall engine derived from the Chevrolet engine of the 1940's.
Long ago. I bought a Holden Terana or was it Terano? I can't remember, it was a very long time ago. What I do remember is it had a 3.3 straight 6. which was virtually identical to the Vauxhall Cresta, and was also used in petrol engined Bedford Trucks. It was so similar that I replaces the Holden engine with one from a Vauxhall and all the ancilleries bolted straight on, including the twin carb manifold.
Torana. I don't doubt the vauxhall engine was very similar. I wonder if vauxhall engineers got some inspiration from the holden engine. But I know the holden engine was designed in australia by holden. And yes they were fitted to Bedford trucks and vans, and they were also used in industrial applications.
@@denisovanhybrid9610 The 202 came in a high and a low compression unit which makes no difference as when you rebuild an engine all these things can be changed. For example we used to dummy assemble the engines and then put them in the surface grinder and surface the blocks down to the piston height, you could also use a head off the 149 giving it more compression there were 2 pistons listed a high comp and a low comp. You can grind the crank and alter the stroke which will also increase the compression.
I am building a similar engine here. Might I ask your choke size, jetting and air corrector size? Need a baseline to begin sorting out 45 DCOE carbs on 202 engine. Thanks, Harry
I ran my 202 with 14" bridgestone street tires to 12.9@107mph quarter mile using unleaded pump gas, yes these engines are great but be careful of the harmonics :) I don't know what hp it made but it was a great sleeper :)
@@202ToranaMan impressive. That's great I love it 🤣 would love to own a car with one of these, though with my mechanical knowledge maybe its not a good idea haha
@@joshuawatson9486 You are pretty well correct, I never had it on the Dyno so my guestimate was at the lower end of your estimate. It actually ran a 108mph but slower ET. It was in a daily driver LC Torana running 205x60x14 street tires. Couldn't launch hard and 60ft was 2.0 seconds, half track low 8's
@@202ToranaMan that's a bloody quick little street car you had mate. Had a little bit more in it if you could have got the 60ft down. Still quick. People don't realise how quick that is on the street.
It is basically the same engine with a metric capacity it uses a 12 port head and the crankshaft has more counterweights on it than the early red engine it also uses stronger conrods than the red engine the same rods as used in the blue motor and the starfire 4 cyl which was a cut down 173. The black 202 also has a bad reputation for lifting the lid off number 6 piston.
@@nickgeorge2176 Yes they do have the same bore size but because the 202 has a longer stroke the 202 pistons have a different pin too crown height. Also the 202 has larger main crank journals.
What this comparo doesn't show is reliability. I have owned both and had both reconditioned, in y experience the 186 outlasts the 202 and I haven't heard anyone argue the contrary.
202’s had a bad reputation for losing the top of a piston and putting the conrod through the side of the block. It happened to mine. Only ever heard good things about the 186.
The pollution gear on the 202s didnt do anything except make them unreliable and hard to tune and keep a tune. They would run rich then lean and cause all sorts of headaches. They improved a bit with the blue and black motors but most people and mechanics did away with the stuff and blocked them off.
Great video, but it could do without the music playing in the back ground, or at least turnd down a bit. I came here to see a couple of engine pulls not to listen to someone else's music choices.
I had a black 202 built in 95 by goldcoast performance Mick Cochran ,he did a good job 350 holley,extractors,2 and a quarter exhaust plus a few other mods. Revved pretty hard 5500 in 1st gear for an auto.
Why can't you make them rev a lot harder not having a dig but I built a 173 with a yt 202 head and a huge cam triple carbs years ago and it would hit just under 8000rpm ok it didn't last that long but that's hot engines for ya.
We had stove Bolt in some Pommy Cars Here and we had the Land Cruiser Motor its a Coppy of a Stovebolt i think and we Had a few of the other you are talking about at trade school i think looked like a holden red but Bigger .
@not today Was crap. If back fired would melt plastic part in carb. If passenger left front put feet up high under glove box and pressed hard would stall. There is a plug there that would separate.
@not today My favourite was dads LJ Torana 2850 auto with drum brakes. Bought new for $ 3000 later gave to my sister. She swapped for a Mazda. Now look at the Torana's value. It makes me cry. The Mazda now $80 scrap.
Well, a stock 318 from those days was 230hp. A base model 6 pack 265 Hemi 6 (E-37) in the R/T Charger was 248hp. To be fair, no Aussie V8 was within 50 cubic inches of those holden reds either.
Those old v8s from back in the day were dinosaurs the average 4cyl would blow the doors off them now. A 6cyl Barra turbo will blow the doors off most of the modern ones as well, mind you those supercharged lsa things go pretty well.
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
My 202 has done 360000 km still all original and no oil leak from rear main even after 44 years , like to see that in a modern engine .
Mine hit 500000 and got a rear main leak but that’s probably because it has been abused and brought to work every day
1983 rodeo untouched 2L isuzu petrol engine made it to 1,145,000km before we retired it for a cheap gemini 1.8 from a wreck. Sounded like another exhaust when we would remove oil filler cap while running. Petrol to oil burning ratio was 5 to 1. Still reliable though.
For a start - a modern engine will not even last half that time......
The old boy has a HQ Ute on the farm. Hasn’t been registered in decades as not road worthy. Has just on 760,000 km on the clock. 202 has had one dismantle to replace rings only. Still runs like it always has. Great.
but you must remember your motor makes very little power. It's not highly stressed so it should last
I'll have the 202. Its cool to see these engines still getting built and developed after all these years.
Wes Gates I’d love to get a hold of one of these or a Hemi Six! Both great engines!
Sorry to be so off topic but does anybody know a trick to log back into an instagram account??
I stupidly forgot the password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me.
@Arjun Dexter Instablaster :)
@Onyx Shepard Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Onyx Shepard it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my account !
Farken miss the days these lil rippas were driven everywhere
My comment is a bit late, however, i'm an old fart who has driven both these engines, the 186S, as a Traffic Patrol car and i owned a 72 HQ 202 for a few years.
I'm not a mechanic, rather i take pride in my driving ability, I'm a driver. The 186S, was only an average cop car, it kept the rain off, 1st and 2nd gears were not alot of use
in a quick start pursuit, almost as if governed to certain revs, though 3rd gear was very low torque and had considerable acceleration up to around 80 or 90 mph, after that
it struggled somewhat. Bearing in mind it was common for us to travel over the 100mph during pursuits. We occasionally carried Loadometer heavy vehicle weighing scales in the boot
and when i did so, the 186S handled like a dog, i dare not chase anyone with the scales onboard. Unloaded it was a tad light in the back end. I had that vehicle as a patrol car
from brand new in 1967. Later i owned a 72 202 HQ manual, a completely different vehicle to the 186S. Superior handling, road holding ability, much greater acceleration, would easily attain speeds well over 100mph with out straining,
(not many could shake me off on a winding country highway), great steering, very positive, one of the best cars i've owned in my lifetime. The only fault it had was the gears sometimes jammed between 1st and 2nd requiring me to get out to flick up the linkage , that was a pain. In my opinion, there was very little comparison with the two engines.
back then the 202 had a reputation for lifting the crowns off the pistons if revved too hard. And 6500 rpm out of a holden6? A bit hard to believe really. .
Who would have ever thought Holden would have better developed cars and engines as time went on, eh?
Had the same linkage problem in my 173 LJ Torana which routinely dusted off a mate’s identically coloured LJ 202.
First time I have heard anyone consider the HQ a good handling car. They were an absolute dog, even in their time.
@@ihateemael I've seen a few 186's without piston tops too. More of a Holden parts thing, like all the D shaped exhaust valves with HOLDEN cast on the heads at the tip back in the day.
The 2 best motors made in my opinion are the Holden 186 & the Chrysler 225 slant 6.
Very reliable & easy to work on if something went wrong.
The slants were an excellent engine but under stress would blow the crankshaft caps off (about their only weakness) so stock car drivers used to use 4 bolt ones.
ford 250 2v head was up there as well
Slant sixes were pigs to work on the dizzy, pigs on fuel, only had 4 main bearings so not strong. The Hemi 6 was 4 times better. 186's were prone to seperate the tops off pistons, eat exhaust valves as fuel and strip timing gears and dizzy cogs if overheated. All could have been remedied by Holden with simple upgrades if they had cared enough. That said, the Hemi 6 was the best Aussie engine until the Barra came about.
@@rossbrumby1957 I agree, had a couple of pacers and some vj's.
@@rossbrumby1957 The 202 was the worst red motor for lifting the lids off pistons. That was my experience from 20 years in the reco business from the late seventies into the mid nineties. The holden engines were easy to recondition and were big sellers with a good profit margin. Fibre timing gears were never a good idea. It was suggested Holden buy the chrysler engine plant and use the Hemi in the commodore. Going on 60 now and i find myself driving a barra turbo. Ford has had the best engine blocks for durability right from the start its the reason they were always so popular as taxis.
Ain't technology marvellous? We used to cream our pants at 250hp from a Holden 6 back in the day, now a bone stock Honda K Series makes over 300hp, and that's a 2 litre 4 cylinder. And even that design is nearly 30 years old now, the new stuff is ridiculous. But with car makers putting their resources into electric now the current gen petrol engines are undoubtedly the best we'll ever see. It's kind of like when jet engines superseded prop planes at the end of WWII - those last gen piston-engined prop planes were MENTAL. Our car engines are being superseded by electric motors, but the last gen ICEs are FANTASTIC.
I'd like to see a comparison between the carbs and a modern injection system too, just to see how much can be gained on an old 202. I know when Holden fitted an injection system to the 202 for the VK there were gains over the carb fed models, but EFI tech has come a long way since then. Admittedly the carb engines they compared with weren't using multiple weber setups, but still. I've seen other older engines (Datsun L series motors) see significant improvements when upgrading from webers to EFI. About the only thing that wasn't improved was the noise - that induction roar that webers make is unbeatable. Open throated EFI systems can sound fantastic too, but not quite the same.
Cheers for the vid, very interesting stuff.
50 years later...but.. nostalgia
We had a worked 179hp block with a m20 in a eh ute . Was a little beast
Very surprising, Quite a difference for only 16 ci .Thank you for doing this video.
@not today Yes and more Torque.
Removing those restrictive socks would have seen even more out of the 202.
They're tuned for that air filter restriction.take them off and it'll need retuning or it will run lean.
you can see the extra tq all the way to 6.5k on the 202. Performance you can feel. Good job!
I was a big fan of the 161 in the day. Real little revver with a bit of work.
My ex wife had a Bitch K when I first met her. Her dad, and old hotrodder had built it for her. One time he brought his Dodge down from Byron for his mate's big event at Phillip Island. You all might remember John Katsanis and the Kustom Nats over New Year at the GP track. Anyway, we got to do a lap of about a third of the circuit in our cars, and my wife drove the old Kingswood with it's pearl paintjob and old kidney-bean dragways on the track.
As we hit the starting line, old mate says to me, the passenger: No Burnouts, No wheelstands, Keep below 20 miles per hour.
I said: Mate.....it's only a 161.
I had to tell him a second time before he laughed his guts out. SO MUCH HORSEPOWER around that day, but not in that car.
Mine went like a rocket. In an LC GTR Torana.
202s had same piston as a 186 but 202 had longer stroke. 253 v8 had same pistons, just eight of them.
186 bored 192 with 179 head on it, redline inlet manifold, holly 350 carby, extractors, cant remember cam, speco shifter 3 speed on floor, no synchro first, that was my first HT holden premier
Really cool comparison
Back in the day we used to put a 186 head on a 202 engine to increase static compression, but then we had leaded petrol, now you'll need hardened valve seats and run it on 98 unleaded or you'll get pinging that'll eventually wreck internals.
They needed hardened ex valves because replacing them was almost a regular servicing procedure.
If you really wanted to increase your compression on a red motor the 161 and 149 had small kidney shaoed combustion chambers and you could plane more off until the thumbprints were gone. The major issue with the valves and seats was because the lead in the old fuel was a lubricant for the cast iron seats, none of the old holdens or falcons were suited to unleaded fuel ford got around it by fitting an alloy head which has valve seat inserts as all alloy heads have and holden got around it by fitting a Nissan engine.
one of the all time greatest engines ever built from 138 to 202 huge potential as shown here the limits are wherever you choose to take them. no comparison to a ford six boat anchor the Holden six has race wins by the hundreds and is still the best sounding six by far. A true icon
Captain Kaos Mopar or no car,still Hemi Valiant 70,71,?,Holden 64.
The Ford boat anchors are still running to this day though, LOL.
The popular thing for the red motor owner with money was to use the ford 221 stroker crank conversion. Still no way of keeping up with a 265 Hemi though.
@@rossbrumby1957 Yes a buddy of mine had that very set up in his hk monaro , it went quite well.
@@Jpgundarun True the Ford will run a lot longer before it wears out its rings and cyls, the blocks are made out of better material i know as i have bored and honed a hell of a lot of them more holdens than fords and it takes a lot longer to hone the same amount of material out of the ford, that is why they were not a common sight in the reco workshops as they just didnt wear out like the holdens.
my sleeper ej wagon with 179 stage 3 yt head opened some eyes
All things equal, camshaft specifications, compression, carburettor and head work the 202 has a displacement advantage so this result was predictable.
The results are almost bang on proportional granted a bit of error margin. If anything, the 202 is hitting a touch above its weight.
Rock and Roll ain't noise pollution !!! Good on ya Aussie power 👍👍👍👌👌🤘🤘🤘
100yrs ago when I was a mad engineer 🤣....I glued a turbo charger off an old tractor to the side of a bog standard 186....no idea how much boost was being fed into it thru a 650 Holley, but at about 2grand, it would just spool up and go berserk....I got about 6 weeks of "experimental research " with it in an LJ torana before the head put a dent in the bonnet at full noise one night on King Street in Newcastle....red motors are just a grand thing .....
What camshaft were these engines running?
Back then it was the big thing to put a Yella Terra head on. Are they still a thing?
I always wanted Yella Terra Rolla Rockers in my Charger. I didn't even really know what they did but you just used read all these names and specs in muscle cars magazines and there were a bunch of things the same that every car had on its mod list so you wanted the same thing.
@@JoshPhoenix11 I think the heads allowed a second valve spring and better flow
They were only a thing then because holdens heads were asthmatic and burned valves like crazy. Never needed yella terra heads for the Hemi 6, you couldn't put bigger valves in a 265 head- 1.96"inlet and 1.5" ex is huge. Don't need porting unless you're going drag racing either.
@@rossbrumby1957 265 is different to the slant 6 yea
Last time i looked the company still exists but has changed its product line over the years. They actually produced a lot of heads for different versions of factory holdens and falcons over the years.
My land rover has a 186 in her. She was sitting for 5 years before I got my hands on her and within 2 hours she ran and drove. Indestructible engines. And im a ford supporter 😂
Sweet! Makes as much as a stock FG NA barra motor.
and only 30 years older...
More like 60!
Put triple webbers on a stock fg barra and see what you get.
with 40 less cc
All things being equal, it was predictable. I'm thinking the 202 would've made a little more with open intakes like the 186 though.
Had a Holden with 202 cracked the heads had a 186 sitting around put that on no problems.
These go hard with a Dunston Rotary Valve head on them.
Great comparison. Cheers for sharing.
You boys can have your 186s and 202s Ill take a hemi 265 any day!...
alex wilson hemi 265 make 270kw without turbo ,supercharged and nos I love hemi 265 too
Even a stock Valiant 245 'll cane anything but a 202 in a high state of tune. I'd have probably bought a new 70s Valiant over a Falcon or Holden, simply because of the better engines. I mean, if you wanted sporty, you bought an Alfetta or 924.or even a Golf. The standard Holden 6 would be caned by these 1970s cars. Even a healthy & tuned Datsun 1200 in a light 1200 or 1000 body, ( not the heavier 120Y) would do it.
Fat 120Ys & gutless Holdens that wouldn't start ( post mid 76) & detuned Europeans. " AUSTRALIA DESERVES BETTER MR SPEAKER, MR SPEAKER?
Now, what are the automotive comprimises today ? ( of course, they'll tell us?)
should feel 550whp out of 2.6 liter godzilla
@@johnsergei Even the slant six blew the 202 away, had heaps of races on the street as a kid.
@@MrCav74 265 ate v8s in the day standard
Ooo two of my favourite engines.
Well done on the visual style of them as well. Look great.
Whats the most you could get out of a hot 161 or 2639 holden ya reckon?
Please explain: how do you have a gain of horse power, coinciding with a loss in torque?
@@BGone-mb7wz laws of physics bud, as the engine spins harder it’s less efficient
I can only assume given the lack of revs the camshaft they are running is very small.
Both good motors
Hmmm , i remember my dads HR holden premiere with a 186 in it , it didnt have a lot of miles on it , probably about 70,000 or something , you`d be sitting there at a red light and your valuable compression would be coming out of the tappet cover breather which was a thin steel tube clamped to the engine block ending about 6 inches from the tarmac , and and leaving the poor bastard next to you in a cloud of oily blow by fog :) , ah those where the days :) .
Old video I get it but a 13% increase in power for an 8% increase in cubic capacity tells me that all things are not equal and that the 202 engine has a better volumetric efficiency.
Also a longer stroke motor making peak torque higher (>5,000rpm) than the short stroke version (4,800) is also suspect, as is the hole at 3,300 in the 202 curve.
These engines or the dyno run conditions are are not equal by a fair margin.
Gotta love a little AC/DC! I remember the first time I saw them, late one night on Don Kirshners Rock Concert. It was a late night concert show on late Friday nights for teenagers and rock lovers. AC/DC opened for Black Oak Arkansas, which was a one hit wonder the played Jim Danny to the Rescue. I watched it to see what else they had in their album, and they sucked. But AC/DC blew my mind. All I could think is why are these guys opening for a one hit wonder. Song after song the rocked the house. My poor parents probably didn’t get much sleep for the first half hour of the show. The next Monday at school, a good handful of my friends had seen the shoe, the rest were out with thier girlfriends, but those who saw it all loved the show. Awesome stufffrim down under!
Iv taken a bit of flak for the music, but I’m with you, i grew up with AC/DC. I have another special six on the go and it’s going to be worth a follow a up video, no music this time🤣
just applying the percentage greater capacity (8.6%) to the 186's power figure would bring it to 263+hp, 10bhp under that 202. But I suppose other motors of each size with those same specs would all be slightly different
From what I’ve heard the combustion chambers on the larger bore Holden 6 engines work better than on smaller ones, not sure why exactly but I’m pretty sure it has something to do with the combustion chamber being wider than the bore on stock engines? I was surprised the 202 made power higher in the rev range than the smaller engine though.
I remember seeing a freak 202 in a HQ van once. Standard engine but would keep up with a v8.
Great song
In 2021 $s, what would each of these engines cost to build? Not seeking a current cost, just increase the build cost from when the engines were built.
The cost to build has changed dramatically over the years, thirty years ago this same combination would have cost 3-4K, a pimped up one of these you won’t get change out off 15k, back in 1989 I would remove Reco & refit back into the car for 1.5k, times have changed hey,
@@OctaneAlley I can say that if you worked in a reco shop back in the day you could build and engine better than that for a few hundred dollars but those webbers didn't come cheap under $1000 way back climbing to closer to $3000 years later
I always believed that an in-line 6 cylinder engine is far superior than a V- 8 . Thanks
nice when they make that classic straight 6cyl roar... but most are fuel thirsty boat anchors now... and conrods no OHC? eeek.... lotta noise for not much puff these days. my KIA soccer mums car has as much grunt.
Makes for a taller motor. That’s why GM stuck with pushrod V8’s in the LS series.
why would you try to get max power with pods on?
AC/DC gets me revved up.
When i got my xu1 rebuilt they used the original 202 block but used a different 186 head.
good video.what mods do they have to get that kind of power?
“Power” run? Jokes, it’s pretty impressive 👍
What size webers
like to see compared with standard motor build with Chinese turbo kit
I am rebuilding a back 202 that was in my VK commodore police car from Mt Thomas police station in 1987
What's the cam card
The Holden 6 cylinder engine is almost identical to the Vauxhall 3.3 litre cresta engine from UK.
fred grove that's because commodore is actually a Opel German design. Vauxhall viceroy is the same car as Opel and holden commodore
The Opel 6 cylinder engine is very different to the Vauxhall/Holden engine in that the Opel is a cam in head design where as the Vauxhall is a OHV i.e.. pushrod. The Vauxhall engine derived from the Chevrolet engine of the 1940's.
The holden six cylinder has nothing to do with opel. Holden designed it and was putting it in other cars long before they started building commodores
Long ago. I bought a Holden Terana or was it Terano? I can't remember, it was a very long time ago. What I do remember is it had a 3.3 straight 6. which was virtually identical to the Vauxhall Cresta, and was also used in petrol engined Bedford Trucks.
It was so similar that I replaces the Holden engine with one from a Vauxhall and all the ancilleries bolted straight on, including the twin carb manifold.
Torana. I don't doubt the vauxhall engine was very similar. I wonder if vauxhall engineers got some inspiration from the holden engine. But I know the holden engine was designed in australia by holden. And yes they were fitted to Bedford trucks and vans, and they were also used in industrial applications.
Not bad out of an asthmatic chew o chew !!!
I would like to say... the 202 won... it's all about inches
Why do supras eat big v8s then?
As my Mechanic used to always say. "There's no substitute for Cubic capacity". So no surprise that the 202 clocked in at 173 Horses.
Explain why supras eat most v8s
202 Holden motor is a high compression engine where the the 186 is standard Holden engine
😒
@@denisovanhybrid9610 The 202 came in a high and a low compression unit which makes no difference as when you rebuild an engine all these things can be changed. For example we used to dummy assemble the engines and then put them in the surface grinder and surface the blocks down to the piston height, you could also use a head off the 149 giving it more compression there were 2 pistons listed a high comp and a low comp. You can grind the crank and alter the stroke which will also increase the compression.
@@grantreid8583 of course….
Now you just need to convince Wally …
🧐
I am building a similar engine here. Might I ask your choke size, jetting and air corrector size? Need a baseline to begin sorting out 45 DCOE carbs on 202 engine.
Thanks,
Harry
I ran my 202 with 14" bridgestone street tires to 12.9@107mph quarter mile using unleaded pump gas, yes these engines are great but be careful of the harmonics :) I don't know what hp it made but it was a great sleeper :)
@@202ToranaMan impressive. That's great I love it 🤣 would love to own a car with one of these, though with my mechanical knowledge maybe its not a good idea haha
@@202ToranaMan what car was it in mate. 107mph in the 1/4 mile would have to be 300 to 350hp at the crank in my opinion
@@joshuawatson9486 You are pretty well correct, I never had it on the Dyno so my guestimate was at the lower end of your estimate. It actually ran a 108mph but slower ET. It was in a daily driver LC Torana running 205x60x14 street tires. Couldn't launch hard and 60ft was 2.0 seconds, half track low 8's
@@202ToranaMan that's a bloody quick little street car you had mate. Had a little bit more in it if you could have got the 60ft down. Still quick. People don't realise how quick that is on the street.
nice
Get ya Bogan donks right 'ere boys... 😎👍
Is the 3.3 litre any different
Blue and Black 3.3 have 12 Port Head not allowed on XUIs used in racing
Ok fair enough
It is basically the same engine with a metric capacity it uses a 12 port head and the crankshaft has more counterweights on it than the early red engine it also uses stronger conrods than the red engine the same rods as used in the blue motor and the starfire 4 cyl which was a cut down 173. The black 202 also has a bad reputation for lifting the lid off number 6 piston.
Well that puts that myth to bed.
192 for the win
Who would have thunk a larger capacity would yield greater HP and torque...
How much to buy a pre built 186 stroker?
202s are stroked 186s.
A 202 is a stroked 186 , they take the same piston ring size.
@@nickgeorge2176 Yes they do have the same bore size but because the 202 has a longer stroke the 202 pistons have a different pin too crown height. Also the 202 has larger main crank journals.
the two graphs dont make sense to me, the smaller motor should make peak power at a higher rpm with the same cam lol
It definitely sounded like it did
Different strokes however.
add a nice burt jones cam 40/80
And put the 186 head on the 202 hehe
What this comparo doesn't show is reliability. I have owned both and had both reconditioned, in y experience the 186 outlasts the 202 and I haven't heard anyone argue the contrary.
202’s had a bad reputation for losing the top of a piston and putting the conrod through the side of the block. It happened to mine. Only ever heard good things about the 186.
I agree, I've owned both long ago, loved the 186 and loathed the 202.
The pollution gear on the 202s didnt do anything except make them unreliable and hard to tune and keep a tune. They would run rich then lean and cause all sorts of headaches. They improved a bit with the blue and black motors but most people and mechanics did away with the stuff and blocked them off.
@@stevendouglas6593 They needed to be balanced for high reving usage.
No replacement for displacement
Great video, but it could do without the music playing in the back ground, or at least turnd down a bit. I came here to see a couple of engine pulls not to listen to someone else's music choices.
3.3 !!🤙
It's a long way to the shop
If you want it sausage roll and perhaps 30 thousand hp
great video except for the music
I had a black 202 built in 95 by goldcoast performance Mick Cochran ,he did a good job 350 holley,extractors,2 and a quarter exhaust plus a few other mods. Revved pretty hard 5500 in 1st gear for an auto.
Displacement has no replacement
Why can't you make them rev a lot harder not having a dig but I built a 173 with a yt 202 head and a huge cam triple carbs years ago and it would hit just under 8000rpm ok it didn't last that long but that's hot engines for ya.
Ok fair call
Needs to be balanced for those rev ranges. And a better oil pump set up
I wish Aussie have Chevy 6 cylinders which is 295ci not 202 that more hemi 265ci
We had stove Bolt in some Pommy Cars Here and we had the Land Cruiser Motor its a Coppy of a Stovebolt i think and we Had a few of the other you are talking about at trade school i think looked like a holden red but Bigger .
Is that the big 6 Donk that was in South African HQs?
I thought all worked 186ci were bored to 192ci 😊
Stand back.. it's about to explode
Now compare a red 202 to a black out of a VK.
@not today Was crap. If back fired would melt plastic part in carb.
If passenger left front put feet up high under glove box and pressed hard would stall. There is a plug there that would separate.
@not today My favourite was dads LJ Torana 2850 auto with drum brakes. Bought new for $ 3000 later gave to my sister. She swapped for a Mazda.
Now look at the Torana's value. It makes me cry. The Mazda now $80 scrap.
I want one
aaaaggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! tHIS OLD CHESTNUT???????????????????????/
Barra, amen
Jim Clarke
Damn you 🤭😂
Poot 186 in the trana off the time or 202 in hQ not apels and apples
From memory the LC was the only Torana with the 186 and from LJ on they had a 173 or a 202.
The 6 bangers are cool and all but the hp numbers are just not there like a V8. Don't take much of a V8 to crank out 273 hp. That's a stock engine
Well, a stock 318 from those days was 230hp. A base model 6 pack 265 Hemi 6 (E-37) in the R/T Charger was 248hp. To be fair, no Aussie V8 was within 50 cubic inches of those holden reds either.
Those old v8s from back in the day were dinosaurs the average 4cyl would blow the doors off them now. A 6cyl Barra turbo will blow the doors off most of the modern ones as well, mind you those supercharged lsa things go pretty well.
186 is the better engine always was always will be only 202 that’s better is the black 3,3 steel crank 12 port head rest is shit
Music is so annoying
music sucks
Taken on board ,what can I say I like AC/DC 🤣
You suck mate