Honestly she a representation of real life, sometimes people you genuinly want to like, end up being people you despise because of a decision they made..... we're not supposed to like her. She DID SA Finn, and you're supposed to be uncomfortable. Because life is uncomfortable, and people you once tried to tolerate become unlikable. Did the show *need* the implied SA? debatable. But it happened, and happens everyday.
@@YINSED5192 It wasnt really hard to interpret. The flower analogy alone is a very very obvious and incredibly common artistic expression and explenation for what took place. Like that of Angelina Jolie in the Maleficent movie when her wings were ripped off after she had been drugged and fell asleep next to someone she thought she could trust. It happens every day, and that scene caused a lot of people to be triggered, much like the scene with LSP and Finn. Art evokes emotion - In this case, its horror, discomfort, disbelief, sorrow for Finn, anger for LSP, Disgust for whats implied.- And that particular artistic scene it did what it was supposed to do. Evoke emotion. It's intended to make you uncomfortable, she's an uncomfortable character and a very accurate representation of actual uncomfortable people. When the person you thought "I may not personally like them, but, they would never do that" does the thing you thought "they would never do" its a sobering wake up call that *anyone* could be capable of *anything*. Its that looming eviceral shattering of your confidence where you begin to process. "They... actually did it." Your judgment is questioned, your very methods of how you vet the people around you is tested, its always hard to admit that you liked an unlikable character, but it's even harder to think, or even accept that a character that was written to be terrible... just might exist next to you in real life... and maybe closer than you think. Even down to the mannerisms of a self-centered person LSP was so perfectly and tragically depicted. They *went there* and didn't allow anything to be left to interpretation.
Yeah, I agree. Moreover, I really do feel like its an utter triumph in animation that Adventure Time could have a young man protagonist experience that in such a subtextual, yet blatant way. Its horrifically uncomfortable, but there's undoubtedly so many people- so many *boys and even men* who needed that. A character who is no less for having experienced that. Who didn't know what that even *was.* But who goes on to conquer so many existential fears and be such an incredible hero. People talk about men's mental health, and this is exactly the kind of stuff we need- more media depicting emotional vulnerability, modeling positive mental health outcomes with a strong male identity. Apparently having a rough go of things and winding up more or less content is too tall an order of things, most of the time? I think of all the new media I've consumed recently, the only thing I can think of that has it is that TotK Link seems to get a decent life in the end. Maybe some Owl House characters? But its not really modeled, its an afterthought. We get to see Finn thriving later on.
@@stupidmangoz I understand your point of view, but i also want to point out that *"going to bed like nothing was wrong'* is exactly how some people react after they've been assaulted. People always discuss Fight or Flight but no one acknowledges the other two stages Freeze and Forget. The brain is an organ, and some people experience trauma so heavily that they can repress it to the point of forgetting it. The fact that you're angry about it only further highlights the reality of what happens to some victims daily. When you've been violated and betrayed, some victims -myself included- don't go get help because they were never taught what to do how to react, or what's the proper response when you've been violated. Or even worse, when you tell someone you're ignored or blamed for something that ultimately wasn't your fault, you force yourself to pretend it never happened, abandon any hope for justice, and move on with your life as best as you can. As someone said earlier, we see him thriving later in the show, as some victims do ultimately move forward but who's to say they aren't affected by the trauma of their encounter throughout their progress? I'm not saying it was handled with an Oscar-worthy illustration, but for a kids' cartoon, going at it from that angle, was their best bet artistically to bring awareness and reality to the viewers, and the fact that it was Finn, a male, who was the victim in this case - something that is sparsely touched on, and very rarly seen- makes it apparent that *anyone* can become a victim, at any time.
the kiss n fade to black is my most hated 'joke' in my favourite show ever to imply she forced Finn into a make-out or sex is just disgusting and her age/attitude is no excuse it ruined LSP for me, I cannot enjoy the character anymore.... not like they really did anything good with her
Bro for real she got that Deathstroke in her 💀. As in, doesn’t matter how Deathstroke/Slade is cool and badass and epic… everyone will always remember him as the guy who groomed Terra, not even Teen Titans could fix his image lmao.
@trash3049 that old implies solething older than I mean? I meant that being young (naive/new) isn't a excuse to mess around like this she was 18-19 in season 6 and Finn was 16 in the episode it happened in I don't think the writers should've thought this was funny
It isn't implied, you gave that interpretation to the scene yourself. That's not disgusting, that's just you projecting your own perspective onto the show.
I just couldn't see LSP the same way after she seemingly forced Finn into... whatever happened after that fade-to-black. It was a poorly done joke and I would bet that it made a few viewers remember quite traumatizing things that happened in their own life, as it did me. If that 'joke' didn't exist, I'd just consider her an ok character, but...
I remember watching that scene on tv. It was actually banned in my country, but as I watched the episode on premiere, the scene was not cut out yet. As I was a young child, I'm gonna say that got burned into my mind and precociosly shaped what a normal sexual approach was
Isn't she a bad character on purpose though? I was never under the impression that I was supposed to like her. From the very beginning she struck me as the sort of comic relief you love to hate, so she never upset me personally beyond being annoyed with her behavior.
That's the same impression I got from LSP since her introduction; she was purposely made to be a hateable character. She's a character who is awful, everyone (in and out of universe) is aware that she's awful, and she fully revels in her awfulness. I wasn't too surprised with what she did to Finn, and thought it was a slightly shocking adult joke using a character that would be capable/most likely to do something like that (again, she's awful). All I do is either laugh or roll my eyes at all the obnoxious and ridiculous crap she pulls. Nothing she has done in series had genuinely upset me, as she's that type of character I would expect to do something terrible. She's like Adventure Time's equivalent to Cartman (South Park) or Rodger (American Dad) in scale of 'purposely awful character doing awful things'.
Her character development was in line with how the show evolved. The world isn't as light hearted as the early episodes let on, and people we thought was just weird and annoying at first eventually show themselves for the monsters they really are. LSP is the lesson on how letting little things slide will lead to bigger things later on.
"Breezy" is such a strange episode in general...from the premise being "Finn has a bunch of casual sex to numb the pain while a bee falls in love with his arm", to be infamous LSP joke, nonsensical ending and bizarre decision to bring back Finn's arm (which didn't even stick for very long). What a weird episode.
The only thing I can explain from this episode, is that the arm is 100% network meddling. Not only doesn't make much sense, but the crew talked about how hard they had to push to get Finn to be an amputee in the first place. I'm pretty sure he was supposed to be one from the start too
I don't like the Breezy episode. Nothing good in it at all. I'm convinced Finn was always supposed to become an amputee. Even pillow Finn has a pillow arm
@@chaotk15 he was! I'm sure there's some.interviews about how Finn was originally planned to start the show as an amputee but the network didn't allow it
I really really hate that they made her a r*pist. I really enjoyed her character, I loved how she talked and I thought she was funny. Luckily the r*pe episode flew over my head years ago but after rewatching Adventure time, I will never be able to look at LSP the same again.
i never read that moment with LSP in Breezy as a joke. it didn't seem to be portrayed in a funny way to me, and the uncomfortable silence afterwards felt like it knew what it was doing? idk as someone who's experienced both overt and "quiet" SA (like coercion by someone you trust, can be confusing cause you wonder like maybe if you would have just objected harder it might not have happened) and the numbness, blank dissociation afterwards was really on point for me
yeah idk every criticism for that scene comes across as a bit ignorant to me. "oh but she was meant to be a likeable character" isn't that more impactful? precisely because people you like are capable of SAing someone? "oh but the scene was never addressed again" yeah, it's a known fact that finn heavily represses his trauma to the point there's a whole episode about it. sometimes people get SA'd and they take it to the grave and the harasser goes unpunished. it's unsatisfying, but pretty realistic i say this as a victim of SA myself on different occasions. i felt the portrayal was genuine and even good imo.
its a literal certainty that voicing your opinions and physically attempting to resist will stop attempts on your sexuality. if not youre dealing with a rapist, just leave and call the cops. stop making issues out of your own inability to speak up for yourself, youre an adult. stop using cop outs
@@blorglord it's an even higher certainty that people will not get sexually assaulted if offenders stop sexually assaulting. this is a bigger issue than "just resist". there is a convicted rapist whose mugshot displays so many scars from the victims fighting back. but he still raped someone. stop victim blaming. it's disgusting. also, some people who go through SA are _not_ adults. and even if they are, there are people like you who will turn around and say it was their own fault anyway. maybe start being productive and supporting people who got victimized instead of trying to be morally superior.
yea after that, even watching as a kid, i didnt like her. it was really grimey i could recognise it as wrong, even as a rather “innocent” kid at the time.
6:54 I haven't watched a lot of this show, but this is a mindset that I wish more people had when it came to writing women in fiction. It doesn't just have to be where they're forced into the binary of existing for male characters development (not necessarily limited to romance) and an unrealistic standard of perfection marketed as empowerment. We're human beings and thus are capable of making mistakes and those mistakes and personal obstacles being portrayed in media can be just as relatable as a character's hobbies, sense of humor, or aspirations.
Yesss, exactly. I absolutely love how the women in adventure time are written. They are allowed to be flawed and make huge mistakes without being outright evil. They have their own motivations and hobbies. They actually seem to be written from an internal perspective, they have emotions and deal with internal dilemmas. This is what is missing in, like, 90% of mainstream media. You either have a stereotype or an "empowering" badass with the personality of a cardboard cutout. They seem written from an outside perspective and only there to be there for the plot or the male characters. So tired of this. Make female characters that feel like relatable people, please.
I always get the impression that LSP is a catharsis character for Pendleton, like i get the vibe that he knew and cared about someone like her and so he made a character about her. Or that Pendleton was like her as a teenager and is processing that. I think the first one the most cause i *knew* several girls like LSP growing up, and i saw the shitty things they did. And like LSP's assault on Finn is kind of played up for laughs, but its also really not, like there is a *silence* afterwards, its uncomfortable and its supposed to be. I dont think its making fun of Finn for being assaulted, I think its pointing out a very real thing that boys get assaulted too, and teenagers assault eachother sometimes, and its not okay; and when girls assault boys they dont recieve the Repercussions and concequences of it like when boys assault girls, and its a problem. They just get to go on living their life and no one talks about it, and several people would tell Finn that boys can be assaulted and he was lucky. (Which obviously doesnt happen in the show, but like they all stay friends with her, and Finn doesnt tell anyone). Idk, I just finished my first rewatch of the show, and it really made me wonder if something like that, again maybe a friend he had, did that to him. Idk, it just felt real in a quiet way.
This. Something definitely happened to someone and it manifest into the show. Hell even I know a handful of females that could fall under the LSP category. Same with their genderbent version... Plenty of dudes who act like him from f&c. My biggest issue is she never deals with any consequences, which people in real life definitely mirror.
Thank you, people keep saying it was played as a joke but it really wasn’t. To me it’s very clear, like a lot of Pendleton Ward’s media, that this was a representation of something he experienced. It might’ve been played “humorously” because that’s how the show handles a lot of heavy topics like dementia and tyranny and loss of innocence, but if you actually look at the complete tone of the scene, it’s not a joke. It represents something very traumatizing and painful.
I think the writer of the episode said the entire premise is based on something that happened to him, but I also think he said some iffy things about it. Take that last part with a grain of salt because I don't remember it that well.
The SA really ruined her character for me. I really enjoyed her throughout the series because of her sass and ability to make me laugh. I wish her relationship with Lemongrab 3 would've came before that episode 😭
@@littlemoth4956 No, I mean the SA that was very much implied but unseen by people who are either delusional, young, or completely lack media literacy. That SA. You were close though.
@@HelloKitty-x3 you need therapy if your projecting and injecting your trauma into every piece of media you watch ..no one but victims are thinking like this
A writer on their Tumblr said the scene came off darker than it was supposed to. I don't think this is a case of "media literacy" (people online love to misuse the word), this is an unfortunately ungraceful attempt at showing Finn experimenting and deciding he'd rather not. The writer quite literally says what they do does not matter and is not the point of the scene. So I guess if we go by your "media literacy" comment, you failed at it greatly.
@@Miriam_J_ Media literacy involves the ability to analyze and explore concepts within media. Otherwise expanding your understanding beyond what you see to try and understand what is or could be being said. Even though the writer says they didn't intend for LSP to do something that extreme, it can still be interpreted by others to be implied since Finn did not verbally agree to do anything more than a simple kiss. The person I replied to called this interpretation "Projection" most likely because of how extreme the topic is. Which does, in fact, show an inability of media literacy since they can't seem to understand why the concept is interpreted to be implied in this scene.
I liked LSP because she was such a unique teenage girl character, to me. Yeah she’s boy-crazy and self-obsessed, but she’s also confident and ‘gross’ at the same time- like she genuinely sees herself as cool and attractive even when she’s wearing a trash bag and that’s something totally unique. She gets some good character development but I wish they’d done more instead of what they ended up doing. The Ice King has a lot more questionable “romantic” actions imo but they also dig deep into his character and who he is and why he does what he does. Breezy honestly completely flew over my head because it didn’t feel like the show took it seriously either. I didn’t even remember it tbh, like it feels like Ice King’s gross behavior got more attention and actual stating ‘hey people don’t like it when you treat them like this, you need to stop’. It feels more like a mistake the writers made, that they didn’t think through that moment and what it really meant, rather than something LSP would really do- but also totally understand why it makes people uncomfortable!!
The episode "Breezy" was one of if not the most criticized episode of Adventure Time, at least from what I witnessed when the show was still updating. People all over tumblr were posting trigger warnings of SA and advocating for people not to watch that episode, many of them swearing off the show entirely. The episode itself, I thought it had the right idea behind it of showing the dangers of numbing oneself to a breakup and not actually learning anything, and how i guess in this case "making out" with every woman Finn saw led to him having his own openness be taken advantage of. The issue with how it was depicted, however, is it wasn't exactly made clear enough that what LSP did was a bad thing to do (y'know, kissing Finn without his consent at the VERY least, further implications aside). It didn't really change Finn's perception of or friendship with LSP, LSP never apologized or received consequences, and as a cartoon that was largely broadcasted to an audience of children, that's a pretty dangerous thing to showcase. Like it was subtle about it, and the uncomfortable undertones and Finn spiraling further into depression were all there, and i understood what it was going for, but what really came out of it? The lack of consequences for LSP downplays it, and i'm not saying "lock her up" but if they want to write a scene with that level of maturity, then it probably shouldn't feel normalized as a result, and I think that's why so many people hate LSP not just on a "she's a bad person" level but on a "she's a bad character" level. As a teenager going through a breakup at the time, I appreciated the episode for what it was when it came out and i guess how it touched on some difficult and more mature topics, but I agreed with the fans' criticisms too, and it wasn't as well executed as it should've been (the scene with LSP definitely should've been cut, but there were other issues with that episode as well), and I actually do remember quite a lot of people who have had actual trauma with this kinda thing feeling scarred by that episode without any warning of what would happen. I think because I was made aware of those trigger warnings before watching the episode it made it a lot easier for me to process and think critically of what was being depicted, and i definitely felt pathos for Finn as both a victim and a uhhh a guy realizing that he was a bad boyfriend (referencing how he manipulated Flame Princess that led to their breakup). The story of Finn figuring himself out and adjusting to being single again was one that resonated with me, but it was also pretty difficult to watch it unfold.
Great video! I got curious after watching, so I looked up if anyone commented about this from the show, and this led me to Jesse Moynihan discussing it on Tumblr (He's worked on AT and Midnight Gospel.) I'm just ripping what he said with copy paste, so it's up to y'all to decide what you take out of this: "I don’t think we ever clearly defined tier 15, so I don’t know. The second question is harder to answer - because this scene was to me, the climax of Finn’s journey into darkness. Finn definitely went along with LSP’s advances. He was exploring his emptiness and wondering how far he could go. In the end Finn didn’t feel good about french kissing (or whatever, it’s not important) with LSP but maybe it was something he had to find out through experience. Sometimes you have to reach your lowest self to know what you can build on. All this stuff is pulling from my life experience and personal trials that I’m trying to transmute through the screen in a macrocosmic fashion. What I mean by “macrocosmic” is the larger Truth than just our mundane lowercase truth; Like the larger Love, Princess Bubblegum sings about at the end." It's a scene that unfortunately feels very... not right, and I think that was the point, but the execution is what I think makes this out to be way darker than it actually was. As for me, I remember dropping AT for a while JUST because Finn and FP breaking up, but I've come to appreciate the story they were trying to tell. It was never meant to be something "fun" to watch at points, and honestly it's kind of cool. I don't know whether it's worse to show french kissing or implying it, maybe the latter seeing as it sparked all of this to start.
"Lumpy Space" is one of the more creative parallel dimensions in media. It's usually called something like "the in-between" or something vaguely spooky like that.
Something I’ve noticing is a lot of people interpreting the scene with LPS and Finn as a joke, and it was never implied as a joke. If you watch the scene again, no matter how much it makes me uncomfortable, but there are signs that this is not coming off as a joke Finn says right after LPS says I don’t want to take a dip in the kitty pool anymore. He says I’m not a good swimmer, and her reply was if I remember correctly, let me guide you or let me be your lifeguard. Something like that . This whole scene was never meant to be played as a joke at all and it’s supposed to be played out as more of a fin is trying to find himself and in the process of him, trying to find himself you end up getting into something that was a lot worse in the process this whole arc of was him trying to just , find himself, but in the process, he went through it between his dad and the whole LPS thing and him losing his arm and then regaining it again. This is not a timeline of this is gonna be played as a joke. This was meant for a serious moment for a serious time and I think that honestly as a survivor myself, this is really good representation is doesn’t come off of the joke. No one ever makes any hee hee ha ha moments and the only time I can , say oh so possibly laugh at that is when LPS says oh you got your arm back but even the whole after his arm got given back to him because of the flower that was obviously a representation of the deflowering literally, Finn’s flower got taken away, and he got his arm back in the process, which I feel like it’s just a sign of him, losing his virginity in one of the most horrid ways possible and there’s even an episode talking about the vault and things to Finn just doesn’t talk about and I feel like that one think of this kinda like how Steven universe put stuff off you gotta remember this is still a kids show, but the scenes are serious and so they’re gonna make it serious but serious enough the adults can understand and little kids can still watch the show without having to think too hard about it I feel like the scene did represent how uncomfortable stuff like this is and how it could be anybody that you know and not to mention the whole just feeling like I can’t believe that just happened or the sense so wow I don’t like myself anymore
I get frustrated with LSP, I think she can be hilarious and even kinda awesome in like a... drag show diva way, yanno? She's unapologetically herself and exerts confidence akin to a TLC reality TV star, it's somehow both envyable and pitiful but most of all it's entertaining. Her actions in "Breezy" rly puts a terrible taste in my mouth and I hate that it happened in an episode so important to Finn's character arc (no to mention the foreshadowing of the Finn Sword) or I could at least pretend it didn't exist. But I think the episode that actually upsets me the most about her is the that time travel episode, she just straight up erases a guy from existence, a guy who she was hitting it off with so well and could've been really happy with if she hadn't lost it to her own paranoia and jealousy. She just couldn't get out of her own way and pulled some of the most insane yandere shit she's ever done in the show. It feels like an absurd cartoonish version of the type of self-sabotage you see from alot of mentally unstable teens and young adults, I've had former friends who I had to cut out of my life because they similarly couldn't get out of their own way and thus hurt themselves and everyone around them. idk I'm probably stretching and making it deeper than it is but just seeing her being so close to having something truly good and healthy in her life only to ruin it all based on shit she made up in her own head and a lack of communication... it comes across as her subconsciously trying to take control of how the happiness ends so when it eventually (inevitably) does end it won't take her off guard - destroy the good thing before it can leave her or destroy everything around it so it has nowhere to go, and it just reminds me so much of ppl I've dealt with irl and it just makes my soul itch, yanno? makes me flail around in pure frustration
Man I watched the time travel episode right when it launched. Even 12 year old hated how childish she acted, she literally committed murder just bcz of pure jealousy with no proof to sustain her insecurities.
I didn't properly watch Adventure Time all the way through until a year or two ago and LSP was one of my favourites lmao. I never understood the hate she's so funny to me. Edit: People not liking her because of the sexual assault 'joke' is totally valid. To me it reads less like something LSP would actually do and more like a harmful gag that the writers put it without really thinking about it; but if that's the reason for your hate then I can understand.
@JacksonVoet considering they used deflowering imagery with the flower on Finns arm and he says the memory is going in vault along with how lsp says she wants to play in the deep end and not the kiddy pool telling us the kiddy pool is the kiss. It could have been just my kid brain reading too much into it when I first saw it, though. And your interpretation is just as valid.
@JacksonVoet I see how you could see it that way. I just personally can't really enjoy the character after that kind of thing even if it was supposed to be a joke.
Finn fully healed from third-degree burns with FP. A lil more detail and we'd see how wrinkled and scarred Finn's body has become just from living in Oo
The Elemental Arc was such a weird way to take her character to. If the show is constantly trying to show us that she's unlikeable, then why make her an important asset in saving the world?
6:08 dude characters don’t need to be explained or have a reason for how they are. They just… are who they are. A constant theme of adventure time is “some things don’t need to be questioned”
I remember hating LSP when I was younger,but on my most recent rewatch she was one of the highlights. There's just something fun about a character that revels in their own shittiness
To me, it was quite the opposite experience. I believe her assaulting Finn really had a lot to do with it, as I grew older I started understanding better what that scene meant, which left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth! That was a very defining moment that recontextualized the way I view and interpret LSP
I've always been in the camp that just absolutely HATES the character. Yes, I get that the joke is she's supposed to be insufferable, but when that's her one joke and I don't even find it funny, I can't bring myself to be anything other than annoyed any time she's on screen.
Actually. Like I've known plenty of characters that you're supposed to hate, that are far more enjoyable to watch. I genuinely don't understand the point in having a character that's insufferable, when you could literally just have a character that's normally enjoyable show their negative traits.
@@bluebird1914 yeah, insufferable characters are just... Insufferable. There's characters you love to hate and then there's ones you just cannot stand.
I’ve always found LSP a funny character, fun to watch. She’s funny to me because of her selfishness, the recklessness of her personality. She’s not meant to be written as a role model. Adventure time is no stranger to portraying mature themes despite the original audience- it’s actually a big part of why it’s always been my favorite show of all time. That scene in breezy does not feel like a joke to me, and I feel those who pass it off as a tasteless joke are missing the point. The whole tone of the episode (at least what Finn’s going through) is forlorn, so for it to be a joke would feel out of place anyways. There’s a lot to unpack in that scene, it’s supposed to be uncomfortable, it’s supposed to show Finn’s struggles in attempting to cope. LSP isn’t a great person but that doesn’t dampen the show. I love when shows write morally questionable characters. It makes them feel so much more real, because people like that exist in real life. LSP isn’t a great person, but she’s fun to laugh at.
anytime i try to watch adventure time this is the character that most makes me desperately just want to watch literally anything else (the first episodes are just a struggle i guess)
I haven't watched in years. Back when I watched I didn't even understand how someone could be "too old" for someone and thought Jake was just being closed minded for not wanting Finn to date adults. I didn't know about pedos yet. Anyways, point is, I knew nothing back then. LSP was one of my favorite characters and not in the love to hate them kinda way, I just actually liked her. So imagine my shock finding out there's an episode where she sexually assaults Finn... Feels surreal having it turn into a love to hate relationship so suddenly. A very strong hatred too.
4:06 there is no overconfidence because it's such an inner trait unaffected by how others think that it doesn't ingore others, it just causes the person to believe. Arogance is what you mean, Arrognace is intentionally trying to act or seem better than others despite the facts, while confidence even if over can care for the reality and still choose to continue. Lumpy was a "I'm better than you" not "i believe in Myself."
I feel like i still would have enjoyed her more if there was more comeuppance for her really bad behaviour, like in the episode where she ran away and had to face actual consequences. She didnt stop being herself, but seeing bad stuff happen to her when being herself meant being an idiot or a sassy shit was what made me laugh. Then the ending where she actually changed her behaviour a little while still feeling like the same character and things worked out better felt satisfying in its own way Or the zombie episode where she wants those lips at any cost and gets zombified bc thats the cost But then most of the time she shows up and just does...weird stuff that maybe has an impact on the story or maybe just annoys people and then thats it 😅
Considering she had to be an adult from the start of the show since IK kidnapped her and he has shown he's not a pedophile, I don't think it's dubious, Finn can't consent to sex with an adult that's at least 6 years older than him. (He was 12 in season 1)
LSP Is straight up the reason why I never watched Adventure Time while It was airing, whenever AT was on It was always seamed to land on an episode she featured In which lead me to believe AT was just yet another lol-so-random cartoon filled with dislikeable characters (there were a lot of those around that time), then years later turns out AT Is a cult classic so strong content for It Is still being made. I honestly believe the show would've been much better without her.
i was about to say the show would have been the exact same without her in it. but tbh if they switched stuff with that one mini series, it would be true.
Admittedly i _somewhat_ liked LSP early on because i did see her being sassy and annoying as something that could have possibly developed into a more mature way for her to show her confidence... except that she really did not change at all throughout the show. I guess that her being an over the top version of a teenager was kinda funny, but got old to a degree. And that episode where she SAd Finn absolutely ruined her for me. I kind of pretended like i was confused, at first; especially since that whole episode was weird. But yeah, after that, i could not see her in the same way. And towards the end of the Elements arc, i was constantly wondering "WHY? WHY DOES SHE, OUT OF ALL PEOPLE, HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO FIX THIS? IS THIS SOME KIND OF JOKE?". I finished AT recently and i kind of wish i had a reason to like her- but what she did in that episode is unforgivable and one of the reasons i did not like the middle seasons as much.
I never really liked her to begin with, even before THAT scene. But I do try to be a bit more open-minded about her. I think she was done kinda dirty, writing wise.
@@backupschmliff1156but isn't this an Adventure Time video? And didn't an Adventure Time spinoff come out last year? Your point doesn't really hold up
@@AJotasticGamer I don't really care tbh with you. I had just recently seen yet another video called "We Don't Talk About Kenny" from the Walking Dead TellTale, which is an even dumber title because he's one of, if not the most talked about character behind Clementine.
18:51 what the hell do you means thats litterally what characters are about generally, ofcourse they can't do good things everytime as that isn't human or beliavable at all, sometimes people are greedy, spiteful, sloths, Glottuns, Prideful and so on. Lumpy compared to Finn is more flawed but they are both important characters because of their flaws and redeeming qualities, it's what makes them feel beliavable than just punching bags, ofcourse its fine to relate to aspects of a Flawed character as that doesn't mean you condone any of their actions, it's the same reason you can like villians, you don't side with villians you like villains for varied reasons.
As a kid I thought LSP was amusing. Hilarious even at times. But when I rewatched the show as an adult, I wasn’t laughing. She’d sometimes have a line or two that got a genuine laugh out of me, but for the most part, she was just unpleasant and boring. Just as an example, I remember really liking the episode “The Monster” when I was younger. But I was just kinda bored when I watched it again, cause it’s just LSP being herself for 11 minutes.
The episode freaked me still till is day as a young adult, but Adventure time is a show for kids but a shory to tell to adults. I don't like the direction of the episode, but it shows how people can cross boundaries, and if you don't hold someone's actions accountable. LSP is someone you want better for but can't be around without having the urge to cuss them out. The way LSP behaves you would think that she had a horrible life to lead her to be Desparate enough to sleep in the woods. But she has loving parents, LSP character is very overkill and dramatic but we can all agree we've met a LSP, and probably even tried playing captain save a ho with them.
6:48 I get what he means, even though it shouldn't be that difficult to understand that well women are people too, there is a tendecy with sterotypes to be so common they become the norm, so it leads to this statement that would be generally incorrect to be true due to this fact. They aren't written as characters who have gender that may add to that, they're just cliches with nothing more to them, Pb is a saving Princess Cliche for the Hero finn, which she subverts by being an actual Villain of the story though unfortunately the show messed up this statement later on: 7:02-7:14 atleast PB is an exception to this rule, lumpy in her current state isn't exactly someone you'd like to meet, but she is intersting, marcline yeah, Fire princess so on. the reason Lumpy can work for that is she gets proper development and isn't generally excused for her actions, PB I wouldn't for the character she should still be she is not a person anyone should be with, until she grows and changes as a person she won't be much fun to hangout with.
I truly do not think LSP SA'd Finn. This show is known to cover dark topics, but SA as a topic for AT during this period seems highly unlikely given that it was still airing on CN and is something incredibly hard to actually frame in a realistic and respectful light whenever you would have to be masking it all to be able to get it past review for CN. I think the most obvious reason for why this scene wasn't SA outside of the fact that it would be highly inappropriate to try and cover that on CN is that after this episode this supposed SA literally does not change how Finn interacts with LSP in any way and the actual real ramifications of it are never brought up or developed further; I feel as if they wanted to actually cover SA in AT, they would of given it its own episode(s) instead of throwing it in as a barely side-plot for another episode which revolves around themes of regret and moving on. The themes of regret and moving on in the Breezy episode are also why I don't think scene is SA, the entire episode has Finn running around doing these explorative and impulsive things in the pursuit of filling the void caused by all of the terrible things that've recently happened in his life, it makes no narrative sense for them to make an episode about these things only to then just throw us a curveball "and then he got SA'd" in the middle of it; sure it technically fits the themes of regret and moving on I suppose, but it is very much not taking it seriously to just shove it in there and then never ever bring it up again in the series in any capacity as I mentioned before. I think it is far more likely, given that Finn was having lots of implied casual romantic encounters with women (e.g. asking Doctor Princess on a date, kissing Crab Princess, Breezy) following the heavy troubles he had experienced recently, that the scene with LSP was simply meant to be viewed as another one of these casual romantic encounters taken to the level of implied sex. I can very much see why someone can misconstrue the LSP scene as SA, with Finn only going in for a single kiss and LSP being the one to want more and be vocal about it, then going on to kiss him as they go further with it. I feel like this is merely the result of them trying to fit this subplot in with everything else in the episode and writing it in a somewhat subpar manner that allowed it to be taken incorrectly when viewed a certain way. Initially, Finn kisses LSP and then pulls back immediately, saying that they had made out which implies he is inexperienced. LSP, of course, is a bit dismayed and says she wants to go further. Finn doesn't give a clear implication of disinterest from the prospect, only stating he's not good at going further. LSP, being LSP, then takes charge to kiss him and take it further for them both, which Finn does not struggle against at all. Obviously, Finn not outright showing disinterest or not struggling does not mean it is not SA as plenty of SA can happen under those conditions, but at the same time it is not inherently SA just because the writers didn't make Finn verbally consent with a yes or excitedly jump into going further. This is what I meant by the scene being written in a somewhat subpar manner, it should of been more concise whether or not Finn wanted to go further if it was truly meant to be taken as SA instead of him being inexperienced or vice versa, or at the very least they should of developed this SA idea more in the story so we would know why he seemed so indifferent to begin with. Furthermore, Finn as a character at this point is known to be a very stubborn fighter, I highly doubt if he was being SA'd that he would freeze up or be so nonchalant about the whole thing. Yes, SA is different for a lot of people and some fighters might lock up during such an event, but I still highly doubt that Finn, who has been shown to not be afraid of handling or standing up to LSP, would allow her to just do stuff to him he didn't want her to do; there have been plenty of moments in the show up until now where people have tried to get Finn to do stuff he didn't want to do (both involving his body and not) only for him to continue not doing them to the best of his ability. I get that it could be different for SA but I don't see an argument for why that's what's happening in this scene. My final point about why I don't think this scene was SA, is LSP's continued close relation to the main cast (including Finn, who is seemingly unbothered by her being an SAer in any interaction hereon). LSP is very good friends with Marceline who is dating PB, both of which who are good friends with Finn. LSP is also friends with many more characters indirectly or directly positively tied to Finn, which would mean that lots of character relationships would most likely have to be changed in largescale through one or several episodes just because they sandwiched in this one SA scene, and I am sure you are all aware that this never happens nor does any kind of resolution or development of this SA of Finn. I don't think there is any world where the writers of AT intended for this to be an SA only for them to give so little in the way of making it actually concisely that and something that actually matters at all, it really only makes sense to me that this was simply something meant to be in theme with the regret-and-move-on aspect of the episode with this being the analog for real life casual sex encounters, which I think is really the darkest sexual topic AT would of ever dared try to covertly cover on CN. Of course I could be wrong and they could've been waiting until Fiona and Cake for some reason to even progress this plotline 1 centimeter from where it was created.
I don't think the scene was ever meant to be read as a joke and I'm kinda surprised it was interpreted that way by this comment section. The theme of the episode was very deliberate in my opinion. To me it feels like bad media literacy Finn was very vulnerable and coping in unhealthy ways, which allowed lsp to take advantage of him. That being said, I think it was a clumsy writing decision to make one of the main chatacters that is supposed to be likeable into a r*pist. I also couldn't stand lsp after this episode. I guess it would have been too heavy for a kids show to deal with the aftermath, but in that case, the better alternative would have been to write a new chatacter for the assault scene.
It's OK to like her but she has bad traits that doesn't make her unworthy of being liked just off-putting to some and understanding that might make it easier to process why you like character like vs having to defend her or question your loke in such character
Haven’t watched the video yet but will leave my opinion here before I do: I’m not a big fan of LSP, but she had some fun moments and was occasionally enjoyable to watch. My main issue with her is how they had her SA Finn but continued to have her be a reoccurring and, for lack of better word, friendly character. She never seems like the writers are forcing you to like her, but they rarely feel like they call out her annoying or even downright awful behaviors. In regards to the SA, I can understand why the writers couldn’t really address it any further than they did given it’s a kids show, but I still wish they could’ve done something more than just throw it in there and move on.
I used to love LSP, she was one of my favourite characters. I watched this video to get a more in depth analysis of her because of it. Only to find out that she….did that… to Finn. I can’t believe I found out this way. I’ve watched Adventure time for years and never once came across that episode. I can’t see her the same way ever again after this video. It has ruined her for me. A part of me wishes I never stumbled across this video and continued living in blissful ignorance about this side of her :/
I didn’t really read LSP’s… transgressions as being intended as funny. It felt like it was intended to be shocking or something relatably uncomfortable to a teen audience. Idk, I’ve been in situations like that. Not the kind of thing I hold against the LSPs of those situations. We were young, hormonal, and stupid. Picking up on more understated communication when you’re younger can be tough. Really I just wish the moment wasn’t crammed into Breezy. I think it should have been its own focused uncomfortable episode with a more clear lesson about communication, consent, processing situations like that in a healthy way, and maybe giving a little more meat to the honestly sort of interesting dynamic between Finn and LSP.
I started to genuinely loathe LSP after she S.A'd Finn. I understand the writers intention, but Gods if they could have portrayed it in a different way
i like pendleton ward. i think he's a good writer - adventure time, and midnight gospel are two of my favorite works of fiction. but i don't think the writing in adventure time is good at portraying either gender. whenever the show focuses on it, it seems to go sour. i think princess bubblegum is an even worse example than lsp in this case. she's a f@scist, hypocritical monster that cuts people apart for fun, and that's not out of place for a leader in adventure time. but when you add on that layer of manipulating finn so deliberately, and unapologetically, it takes the cushion of surrealism away. as demonstrated with lsp, and that nonconsensual scene, it only takes one botched joke to recontextualize an entire character into being unforgiveable. that joke reminds people of real situations where romantic, or sexual activities were forced on them. bubblegum reminds me of real people who have tricked me into believing they had good in them, when they're full of nothing but evil. for me, the equivalent of that lsp moment for bubblegum is when she's revealed to actually be jealous of flame princess being with finn. and when it's revealed she used ice king to secretly engage in environmental warfare against the flame kingdom, just so she could dominate flame princess. if it was just one, or the other, it wouldn't be so bad. both of them happening paint her as a deeply depraved sadist who derives her greatest joy from controlling others against their will. and the show does not call her out in ways that convey an awareness of what's wrong with her. having her turn off those cameras was already meaningless before it was shown that she still spies on people, because it's just her narcissistic way of trying to feel like she's a good person, after justifying her petty campaign of vengeance on flame princess with fake paranoia. yeah, bubblegum. i'm sure your desire to harass a teenager makes you very paranoid of her nation's superweapons. what a good person you are for leaving her one of them, that's totally not just a selfish ego stroke at the expense of your kingdom's safety. the one you supposedly destroyed the other superweapons for. that context makes everything else she does in the series foul. marceline isn't her girlfriend, she's her toy. the candy kingdom aren't her people, they're her toys. ooo isn't a setting, it's just a big toybox, for the ✨🍬_most perfect person in the universe_🍬✨ to use, and discard. she's had centuries to learn about the world she lives in, and she hasn't learned a thing about morality, other than the fact that she can get away with violating it. there is no magic artifact corroding her brain, and there is at least one other organism that came out of the mother gum who's not evil. there is no excuse for her behavior. bubblegum should have died with the lich's introduction. if we could've known back then the kind of person she was, her perishing in that radioactive waste would've been poetic, because she's a walking analogue for what probably started the mushroom wars in the first place. phew. i'd been keeping that in for a while.
Theres alot of conclusions being jumped to here but i see why if were trying to logically think of these characters as people then these would not be a stretch to see. I think a point was missed when a egotistical absolute tiara princess we are suppose to hate is "hateable" when that was the point. Oh no, dont hate the character youre suppose to hate. Shes obnoxious. Youre not suppose to be comfortable or agree with half the things she does. Lsp is the personification of obnoxious. Her element is literally being so self centered and obnoxious that she saves the day one times somehow. Shes a really good thing for other characters to bounce off of. Pb though? She acts super morally bankrupt at times and feels like she misses something vital making her human. She feels like a skinwalker character at times. I can never put a finger on it. I think some of this is abit of a reach. She doesn't feel narcissistic as much as she forgets and literally doesnt know how to be considerate from a lack of consequences to her actions. She identifies as princess first and foremost. Her yearn for control and paranoia of safety leads her to overlook many things she never sees as important enough. If you want a case for pb not being a complete sociopath, watch the pb and rainicorn episode where ricardio returns.
The thing that bugs me about this in particular is how in the early seasons theres teeny tiny jokes the Bubblegum isnt the greatest person bur was still overall good. I feel like a lot of the PB is a monster crap came with the mid season changes. People say Adventure Time grew with the viewers which I can normally agree with but that doesnt mean necessarily change things to interpersonal drama. I'll tell you right now, not everyone in their life EXPERIENCES interpersonal drama. I was over it by high school the time where everything is allegedly supposed to be about "drama". I speedran that stage of life because because it was unnecessary bushi. Alot of Bubblegums more messed up implications happen during those seasons. I hate them, and not in a constantly thinking about it way, It made an awkwardly funny comfortable show into something I had no song and dance with because I "prematurely" outgrew "drama". They had an out making PB and Finn the same age after the Lich introduction eps but that didn't last naught but a single episode, back to status quo before assassinating her character for "plot development". Which makes my feeling on her and marceline being a couple more complicated for better or worse. In the miniseries episodes like the glass kingdom one, I think they make a cute couple, but that doesnt excuse the lingering things on PB that've never been addressed. Now what I loved alot too was the Fiona and Cake Evil PB and Good Ice King dynamic Candy Witch's character is one of catharsis but it gets turned into a "PB could be much worse than she is thing" thing by the writers, rather than playing it straight because there could be so much potential there for other interesting developments. The vampire universe implies a toxic relationship between Peebs and Marceline which as much as I love that episode Nah, not dealing with that. The only time they're not entirely messed up is Marshall Lee and Human PB (forgot his name) because theyre based off a Prismo's interpretation of what going on in his friends lives. Almost as if Bubblegum wasn't a secret f@scist things wouldn't be so messy or something. Maybe im crazy and thinking into a bit too much but I can't shake the PB is absovled of sin because there's people worse than her. If all they did was have like a big frustrated apology for all the crap followed by her following through on changing for the better it would fix things but idk. I still love the show but I think i'll stick to the early seasons and near the end from now on. Too much baggage I never related to
1:17 I wish it was earned, PB didn't deserve that win she didn't entirely overcome her issues, she didn't make up for the suffering she committed on so many individuals including Finn, he just made up for what he was hurt by and also that past Slur she used to my knowledge was never mentioned again even though that should've been an important thing she would have to overcome to earn Marceline's respect. Basically the show excused her too much, sometimes it worked as well in the moment she as likely to be punsished, however the fact it never came back to bite her barely or at all is disgusting, I love her as a Caring Tyrant, just hate she half Magic maned her Growth. Now she gets the Baddest bitch alive for basically not trying, I may want that but I know it's wrong because I wouldn't be strong enough to love that person. PB was one of the biggest fumbles Adventure time had, she was a great character who's pointetiall wasn't fully realised.
Nah, PB is one of the best characters and her grey morality is exactly why. She cares about her friends, even Finn. Rewatch the show or something, the worst thing she does to Finn is "lead" him on, but I genuinely think you're blaming a woman for being kind to a child if you do that. Jake lies to Finn, thinking PB is into him while she's explaining what'd happen to Flame Princess if Finn kissed her,, which leads to that scene every single person takes out of context where Finn yells at PB for "leading him in" when it was really Jake making stuff up completely. He doesn't apologize for this ever either iirc, so I guess Jake is a bad character too now? Honestly, Jake is always making Finns life harder and misguiding him, he's done far worse to Finn than PB ever has. She was only ever truly interested in Finn when she was around his age, but even then it seemed to be a fantasy she was escaping to and knew she could choose to end at anytime. It's also hard to care about the suffering she commits when the candy people are so dumb. They're like, barely functional. They'd all die off in a week without her, cause she kinda wants it that way, which is super cool for a princess to have as part of their character. More shows should do the whole morally grey Princess thing, it's great. Marceline and her unserious additude were a big problem in their relationship. Marceline would lash out a lot because of her detachment issues. Like, she sang an entire song embarrassing her politically in front of another kingdom. That's pretty bad! They both have to accept each others apology and take blame for their share of the relationship. It's very mature, imo. It's why I love their relationship. As for her not "making up" for what she did, in real life, people you love, your family or your friends will do or say something wrong to you. There's a chance they won't even apologize to you, ever. That's just how people are. From then, you decide wether to forgive them or cut them off. There are enough cartoons with pink princesses that are nothing but kind, generous rulers to their kingdoms. Having one be kinda an asshole is awesome, actually.
I honestly think breezy, and the arc around it, is a big part of why I stopped watching AT fot a whileeee. The writing was wack, no other way to explain it for me, everything felt strange and wrong, and that climaxed with breezy, just genuinely not a good era of AT, and the EXTREMELY uncomfortable implications towards LSP and Finns interactions is the most obvious issue with this era It was such a poorly handled situation that I just don't think AT ever needed.
It's really bizarre to me that both this video and a lot of the comments seem really adamant on reading that scene with LSP as SA. The only resistance Finn showed to her advances was him saying "I'm not a good swimmer", which not only is going along with her teasing analogy (something that Finn wouldn't do if he legitimately wanted to get away from her), but also isn't even direct resistance. All that implies is that he's either taken her analogy literally, which is highly unlikely given he's already conquered his fear of the ocean, or he's simply saying that he's inexperienced in being more intimate than a quick kiss. LSP's comment after that implies that she'll take the lead and help him through it. The fact that people interpreted that as even remotely implying SA is insane to me.
He clearly looked uncomfortable. kiss or sex, he didnt seem to exactly want her to do what she did and after the scene he said something about needing to forget what happen and never tell anyone has a scary implication that something horrible happened that he dont want tp rememeber and feels embarresed/possibly scared to tell anyone. If nothing really happen why would he say that? Also she literally made him kiss her at finns lowest point which just no, thats scummy and really bad behaviour
@@Loifey "If nothing really happen why would he say that?" Because he didn't say that. He checked on his *flower* (the whole reason he went around kissing princesses to begin with was because it was sad) and it proceeded to lose a petal. He said he would forget it just did that because it's symbolic for him ignoring his instincts which tell him that kissing princesses won't make him happy. You are literally making things up to prove your point. "she literally made him kiss her at finns lowest point which just no" Finn literally sought her out to do that. He knew where she lived, went there, and then (presumably as this is what he did with all the others) asked her to kiss him.
6:10 it's similar to how PB refuses to well learn from her errors, But like Lumpy is arrogant Lump ofcourse she wouldn't change so easily or care about it, PB maybe pretty Psychopathic but she is intelligent surely she could learn from the mistakes she makes in hurting people more than just turning off her emotional Intellgience inhibitors. yet she just kinda decides to ingore it, the worst part isn't really just that is more so show the show kinda just seemed to have forgotten to punish PB for being arrogant to encourge her and show a point about how the only reason she changes is because it benefits HER and only HER not because it's right or important, Finn should've blasted her for this, he can be gooby but he ain't stupid or entirely. He should've pointed that out as a fair critism to PB when he got older.
2:41 from what I know Princess Peach isn't a Caring tyrincal parent, again I do hate PB for being a badly excuted idea. Though her characterzation is usually limited to just be a plot device to cause conflict instead of just like having mario be a character who wishes to overcome bowser for more reasons, like improving himself, discourging his likely other bad behavoiur, overthowing him cause he is a tyrant. Yet he isn't allowed to as much so she's reduced down to it.
14:35 yeah and thats why someone like PB sucks, she doesn't due enough to account for her many actions, of Cruelty, coercion, genocide, basically killing her own child and step child, harrasment, Racism, Arrogance. most of them weren't really tackled much, like her role in the magic city was just being absolute crazy Lump, like she never rightfully made up for her horrible disregard for other people's unique safe lives in magic, or harrasing them over trying to act superior, or Apologize for forcing Ice King to give her information on it she didn't really need to go for. She is a Great example of how to mess this up.
12:08 I feel this entire thing was bullshit as it completely assisanated Finn's character for this to happen, Finn isn't a Manipulative piece of shit, he can be he just generally chooses honesty, so him letting his impulses fully take him is too out of character to make this fall off beliavable. Leading to it seeming like the writers forced a break up rather than make it be Naturally occuring due to missing information, Finn can be immature but he isn't nowhere this level of such.
its insane people are admitting in this comment section that men can be SA'd. this is literally the singular first time ive ever seen it get discussed for the many years that the news has been slinging feminist stories about oppression. when will they realize we are people too? we have emotions and feelings and go through almost every single issue women go through save for giving birth or having a period. its insane the levels of vitriol between genders nowadays
If a bad joke about sexual impropriety from my character who is improper in every other way ruins the character then you should be watching a show about actual bubblegum princesses. Likable characters do worse stuff than the villains of the show as dubbed by the Twitter audience, it's a show about killing fairies and monsters in exchange for sexual favors that ran for 10 seasons that's going to happen. That flame princess s*** was f**** there's no other way to put it but it's finns story and we saw his hardships and his f***** up dreams. You can say that she deserves a seven season ark to explain but she's a minor side character the assault was Finn's story.
Honestly she a representation of real life, sometimes people you genuinly want to like, end up being people you despise because of a decision they made..... we're not supposed to like her. She DID SA Finn, and you're supposed to be uncomfortable. Because life is uncomfortable, and people you once tried to tolerate become unlikable. Did the show *need* the implied SA? debatable. But it happened, and happens everyday.
Finally, someone who gets what I was going for when I discussed that.
@@YINSED5192 It wasnt really hard to interpret. The flower analogy alone is a very very obvious and incredibly common artistic expression and explenation for what took place. Like that of Angelina Jolie in the Maleficent movie when her wings were ripped off after she had been drugged and fell asleep next to someone she thought she could trust. It happens every day, and that scene caused a lot of people to be triggered, much like the scene with LSP and Finn. Art evokes emotion - In this case, its horror, discomfort, disbelief, sorrow for Finn, anger for LSP, Disgust for whats implied.- And that particular artistic scene it did what it was supposed to do. Evoke emotion. It's intended to make you uncomfortable, she's an uncomfortable character and a very accurate representation of actual uncomfortable people. When the person you thought "I may not personally like them, but, they would never do that" does the thing you thought "they would never do" its a sobering wake up call that *anyone* could be capable of *anything*. Its that looming eviceral shattering of your confidence where you begin to process. "They... actually did it." Your judgment is questioned, your very methods of how you vet the people around you is tested, its always hard to admit that you liked an unlikable character, but it's even harder to think, or even accept that a character that was written to be terrible... just might exist next to you in real life... and maybe closer than you think. Even down to the mannerisms of a self-centered person LSP was so perfectly and tragically depicted. They *went there* and didn't allow anything to be left to interpretation.
Yeah, I agree.
Moreover, I really do feel like its an utter triumph in animation that Adventure Time could have a young man protagonist experience that in such a subtextual, yet blatant way.
Its horrifically uncomfortable, but there's undoubtedly so many people- so many *boys and even men* who needed that.
A character who is no less for having experienced that. Who didn't know what that even *was.*
But who goes on to conquer so many existential fears and be such an incredible hero.
People talk about men's mental health, and this is exactly the kind of stuff we need- more media depicting emotional vulnerability, modeling positive mental health outcomes with a strong male identity.
Apparently having a rough go of things and winding up more or less content is too tall an order of things, most of the time? I think of all the new media I've consumed recently, the only thing I can think of that has it is that TotK Link seems to get a decent life in the end. Maybe some Owl House characters? But its not really modeled, its an afterthought.
We get to see Finn thriving later on.
It was handled horrifically poorly. That's the damn problem. Just treated as a cut to black like it was just going to bed like nothing was wrong.
@@stupidmangoz I understand your point of view, but i also want to point out that *"going to bed like nothing was wrong'* is exactly how some people react after they've been assaulted. People always discuss Fight or Flight but no one acknowledges the other two stages Freeze and Forget. The brain is an organ, and some people experience trauma so heavily that they can repress it to the point of forgetting it.
The fact that you're angry about it only further highlights the reality of what happens to some victims daily. When you've been violated and betrayed, some victims -myself included- don't go get help because they were never taught what to do how to react, or what's the proper response when you've been violated. Or even worse, when you tell someone you're ignored or blamed for something that ultimately wasn't your fault, you force yourself to pretend it never happened, abandon any hope for justice, and move on with your life as best as you can. As someone said earlier, we see him thriving later in the show, as some victims do ultimately move forward but who's to say they aren't affected by the trauma of their encounter throughout their progress?
I'm not saying it was handled with an Oscar-worthy illustration, but for a kids' cartoon, going at it from that angle, was their best bet artistically to bring awareness and reality to the viewers, and the fact that it was Finn, a male, who was the victim in this case - something that is sparsely touched on, and very rarly seen- makes it apparent that *anyone* can become a victim, at any time.
the kiss n fade to black is my most hated 'joke' in my favourite show ever
to imply she forced Finn into a make-out or sex is just disgusting and her age/attitude is no excuse
it ruined LSP for me, I cannot enjoy the character anymore.... not like they really did anything good with her
Bro for real she got that Deathstroke in her 💀.
As in, doesn’t matter how Deathstroke/Slade is cool and badass and epic… everyone will always remember him as the guy who groomed Terra, not even Teen Titans could fix his image lmao.
@@cattiston374 exactly, once you know it it taints the character sm
@trash3049 that old implies solething older than I mean?
I meant that being young (naive/new) isn't a excuse to mess around like this
she was 18-19 in season 6 and Finn was 16 in the episode it happened in
I don't think the writers should've thought this was funny
What????? I just tought she was kissing him harder ☠☠☠☠
It isn't implied, you gave that interpretation to the scene yourself. That's not disgusting, that's just you projecting your own perspective onto the show.
Video shoulda mentioned that a petal fell off Finn's hand-flower in that "fade-to-back" scene, suggesting that LSP straight up deflowered him.
D:
And he even comments on it saying he's gonna pretend he never saw that, and it's going to the vault.
That episode makes me sick to my stomach
I just couldn't see LSP the same way after she seemingly forced Finn into... whatever happened after that fade-to-black. It was a poorly done joke and I would bet that it made a few viewers remember quite traumatizing things that happened in their own life, as it did me. If that 'joke' didn't exist, I'd just consider her an ok character, but...
Exactly. A grape joke wasn't what I was wanting in Adventure Time
Jokes are fine. If you can't see a joke without having a panic attack, you should be in a psych ward.
Sucks to be you
I remember watching that scene on tv. It was actually banned in my country, but as I watched the episode on premiere, the scene was not cut out yet. As I was a young child, I'm gonna say that got burned into my mind and precociosly shaped what a normal sexual approach was
I hated that episode so much that I stopped watching adventure time for YEARS
Isn't she a bad character on purpose though? I was never under the impression that I was supposed to like her. From the very beginning she struck me as the sort of comic relief you love to hate, so she never upset me personally beyond being annoyed with her behavior.
I think it depends on the episode
Yeah that was my take too. She doesn't really have redeeming qualities, right? She's grating on purpose I thought
That's the same impression I got from LSP since her introduction; she was purposely made to be a hateable character. She's a character who is awful, everyone (in and out of universe) is aware that she's awful, and she fully revels in her awfulness.
I wasn't too surprised with what she did to Finn, and thought it was a slightly shocking adult joke using a character that would be capable/most likely to do something like that (again, she's awful).
All I do is either laugh or roll my eyes at all the obnoxious and ridiculous crap she pulls. Nothing she has done in series had genuinely upset me, as she's that type of character I would expect to do something terrible. She's like Adventure Time's equivalent to Cartman (South Park) or Rodger (American Dad) in scale of 'purposely awful character doing awful things'.
She's not entertaining. She's just annoying
@montecarlowithdawningornam1817 again... isn't that the point?
Her character development was in line with how the show evolved. The world isn't as light hearted as the early episodes let on, and people we thought was just weird and annoying at first eventually show themselves for the monsters they really are. LSP is the lesson on how letting little things slide will lead to bigger things later on.
She sucks.
"Breezy" is such a strange episode in general...from the premise being "Finn has a bunch of casual sex to numb the pain while a bee falls in love with his arm", to be infamous LSP joke, nonsensical ending and bizarre decision to bring back Finn's arm (which didn't even stick for very long). What a weird episode.
The only thing I can explain from this episode, is that the arm is 100% network meddling. Not only doesn't make much sense, but the crew talked about how hard they had to push to get Finn to be an amputee in the first place. I'm pretty sure he was supposed to be one from the start too
I don't like the Breezy episode. Nothing good in it at all.
I'm convinced Finn was always supposed to become an amputee. Even pillow Finn has a pillow arm
@@chaotk15 he was! I'm sure there's some.interviews about how Finn was originally planned to start the show as an amputee but the network didn't allow it
I really really hate that they made her a r*pist. I really enjoyed her character, I loved how she talked and I thought she was funny. Luckily the r*pe episode flew over my head years ago but after rewatching Adventure time, I will never be able to look at LSP the same again.
Yeahh same here it became less funny and more like...why?
Yeah I really didn’t know what was happening that episode, just being a really confused 10 year old.
It's one of those scenes that is so inconsequential to the plot and so out of place that I just don't even see it as canon. Like Wonder Woman 1984
@@bobtheball5384
@@seanian8986 This helped a lot man I didn't think of that
i never read that moment with LSP in Breezy as a joke. it didn't seem to be portrayed in a funny way to me, and the uncomfortable silence afterwards felt like it knew what it was doing? idk as someone who's experienced both overt and "quiet" SA (like coercion by someone you trust, can be confusing cause you wonder like maybe if you would have just objected harder it might not have happened) and the numbness, blank dissociation afterwards was really on point for me
apparently the writer of that episode said they based it off of an experience they had in their life…
yeah idk every criticism for that scene comes across as a bit ignorant to me. "oh but she was meant to be a likeable character" isn't that more impactful? precisely because people you like are capable of SAing someone?
"oh but the scene was never addressed again" yeah, it's a known fact that finn heavily represses his trauma to the point there's a whole episode about it. sometimes people get SA'd and they take it to the grave and the harasser goes unpunished. it's unsatisfying, but pretty realistic
i say this as a victim of SA myself on different occasions. i felt the portrayal was genuine and even good imo.
its a literal certainty that voicing your opinions and physically attempting to resist will stop attempts on your sexuality. if not youre dealing with a rapist, just leave and call the cops. stop making issues out of your own inability to speak up for yourself, youre an adult. stop using cop outs
@@blorglord it's an even higher certainty that people will not get sexually assaulted if offenders stop sexually assaulting. this is a bigger issue than "just resist". there is a convicted rapist whose mugshot displays so many scars from the victims fighting back. but he still raped someone.
stop victim blaming. it's disgusting. also, some people who go through SA are _not_ adults. and even if they are, there are people like you who will turn around and say it was their own fault anyway. maybe start being productive and supporting people who got victimized instead of trying to be morally superior.
lmao you can fck right off with that bs, a cop is more likely to SA you than help you
Literally the only thing I remember about her is the episode where she SA Finn
it is unfortunately very memorable
yea after that, even watching as a kid, i didnt like her. it was really grimey i could recognise it as wrong, even as a rather “innocent” kid at the time.
6:54 I haven't watched a lot of this show, but this is a mindset that I wish more people had when it came to writing women in fiction. It doesn't just have to be where they're forced into the binary of existing for male characters development (not necessarily limited to romance) and an unrealistic standard of perfection marketed as empowerment. We're human beings and thus are capable of making mistakes and those mistakes and personal obstacles being portrayed in media can be just as relatable as a character's hobbies, sense of humor, or aspirations.
Yesss, exactly. I absolutely love how the women in adventure time are written. They are allowed to be flawed and make huge mistakes without being outright evil. They have their own motivations and hobbies. They actually seem to be written from an internal perspective, they have emotions and deal with internal dilemmas.
This is what is missing in, like, 90% of mainstream media. You either have a stereotype or an "empowering" badass with the personality of a cardboard cutout. They seem written from an outside perspective and only there to be there for the plot or the male characters. So tired of this. Make female characters that feel like relatable people, please.
I always get the impression that LSP is a catharsis character for Pendleton, like i get the vibe that he knew and cared about someone like her and so he made a character about her. Or that Pendleton was like her as a teenager and is processing that. I think the first one the most cause i *knew* several girls like LSP growing up, and i saw the shitty things they did. And like LSP's assault on Finn is kind of played up for laughs, but its also really not, like there is a *silence* afterwards, its uncomfortable and its supposed to be. I dont think its making fun of Finn for being assaulted, I think its pointing out a very real thing that boys get assaulted too, and teenagers assault eachother sometimes, and its not okay; and when girls assault boys they dont recieve the Repercussions and concequences of it like when boys assault girls, and its a problem. They just get to go on living their life and no one talks about it, and several people would tell Finn that boys can be assaulted and he was lucky. (Which obviously doesnt happen in the show, but like they all stay friends with her, and Finn doesnt tell anyone). Idk, I just finished my first rewatch of the show, and it really made me wonder if something like that, again maybe a friend he had, did that to him. Idk, it just felt real in a quiet way.
This. Something definitely happened to someone and it manifest into the show. Hell even I know a handful of females that could fall under the LSP category. Same with their genderbent version... Plenty of dudes who act like him from f&c. My biggest issue is she never deals with any consequences, which people in real life definitely mirror.
Thank you, people keep saying it was played as a joke but it really wasn’t. To me it’s very clear, like a lot of Pendleton Ward’s media, that this was a representation of something he experienced. It might’ve been played “humorously” because that’s how the show handles a lot of heavy topics like dementia and tyranny and loss of innocence, but if you actually look at the complete tone of the scene, it’s not a joke. It represents something very traumatizing and painful.
I think the writer of the episode said the entire premise is based on something that happened to him, but I also think he said some iffy things about it. Take that last part with a grain of salt because I don't remember it that well.
The SA really ruined her character for me. I really enjoyed her throughout the series because of her sass and ability to make me laugh. I wish her relationship with Lemongrab 3 would've came before that episode 😭
The SA? You mean the thing that's not even implied but people like to project onto the scene for some reason? That SA?
@@littlemoth4956 No, I mean the SA that was very much implied but unseen by people who are either delusional, young, or completely lack media literacy. That SA. You were close though.
@@HelloKitty-x3 you need therapy if your projecting and injecting your trauma into every piece of media you watch ..no one but victims are thinking like this
A writer on their Tumblr said the scene came off darker than it was supposed to. I don't think this is a case of "media literacy" (people online love to misuse the word), this is an unfortunately ungraceful attempt at showing Finn experimenting and deciding he'd rather not. The writer quite literally says what they do does not matter and is not the point of the scene. So I guess if we go by your "media literacy" comment, you failed at it greatly.
@@Miriam_J_ Media literacy involves the ability to analyze and explore concepts within media. Otherwise expanding your understanding beyond what you see to try and understand what is or could be being said. Even though the writer says they didn't intend for LSP to do something that extreme, it can still be interpreted by others to be implied since Finn did not verbally agree to do anything more than a simple kiss. The person I replied to called this interpretation "Projection" most likely because of how extreme the topic is. Which does, in fact, show an inability of media literacy since they can't seem to understand why the concept is interpreted to be implied in this scene.
Breezy really turned LSP from a character we tolerated to one we don't really want to see again
I liked LSP because she was such a unique teenage girl character, to me. Yeah she’s boy-crazy and self-obsessed, but she’s also confident and ‘gross’ at the same time- like she genuinely sees herself as cool and attractive even when she’s wearing a trash bag and that’s something totally unique. She gets some good character development but I wish they’d done more instead of what they ended up doing. The Ice King has a lot more questionable “romantic” actions imo but they also dig deep into his character and who he is and why he does what he does.
Breezy honestly completely flew over my head because it didn’t feel like the show took it seriously either. I didn’t even remember it tbh, like it feels like Ice King’s gross behavior got more attention and actual stating ‘hey people don’t like it when you treat them like this, you need to stop’. It feels more like a mistake the writers made, that they didn’t think through that moment and what it really meant, rather than something LSP would really do- but also totally understand why it makes people uncomfortable!!
The episode "Breezy" was one of if not the most criticized episode of Adventure Time, at least from what I witnessed when the show was still updating. People all over tumblr were posting trigger warnings of SA and advocating for people not to watch that episode, many of them swearing off the show entirely. The episode itself, I thought it had the right idea behind it of showing the dangers of numbing oneself to a breakup and not actually learning anything, and how i guess in this case "making out" with every woman Finn saw led to him having his own openness be taken advantage of. The issue with how it was depicted, however, is it wasn't exactly made clear enough that what LSP did was a bad thing to do (y'know, kissing Finn without his consent at the VERY least, further implications aside). It didn't really change Finn's perception of or friendship with LSP, LSP never apologized or received consequences, and as a cartoon that was largely broadcasted to an audience of children, that's a pretty dangerous thing to showcase. Like it was subtle about it, and the uncomfortable undertones and Finn spiraling further into depression were all there, and i understood what it was going for, but what really came out of it? The lack of consequences for LSP downplays it, and i'm not saying "lock her up" but if they want to write a scene with that level of maturity, then it probably shouldn't feel normalized as a result, and I think that's why so many people hate LSP not just on a "she's a bad person" level but on a "she's a bad character" level.
As a teenager going through a breakup at the time, I appreciated the episode for what it was when it came out and i guess how it touched on some difficult and more mature topics, but I agreed with the fans' criticisms too, and it wasn't as well executed as it should've been (the scene with LSP definitely should've been cut, but there were other issues with that episode as well), and I actually do remember quite a lot of people who have had actual trauma with this kinda thing feeling scarred by that episode without any warning of what would happen. I think because I was made aware of those trigger warnings before watching the episode it made it a lot easier for me to process and think critically of what was being depicted, and i definitely felt pathos for Finn as both a victim and a uhhh a guy realizing that he was a bad boyfriend (referencing how he manipulated Flame Princess that led to their breakup). The story of Finn figuring himself out and adjusting to being single again was one that resonated with me, but it was also pretty difficult to watch it unfold.
excellently said
Great video! I got curious after watching, so I looked up if anyone commented about this from the show, and this led me to Jesse Moynihan discussing it on Tumblr (He's worked on AT and Midnight Gospel.) I'm just ripping what he said with copy paste, so it's up to y'all to decide what you take out of this:
"I don’t think we ever clearly defined tier 15, so I don’t know.
The second question is harder to answer - because this scene was to me, the climax of Finn’s journey into darkness. Finn definitely went along with LSP’s advances. He was exploring his emptiness and wondering how far he could go. In the end Finn didn’t feel good about french kissing (or whatever, it’s not important) with LSP but maybe it was something he had to find out through experience. Sometimes you have to reach your lowest self to know what you can build on.
All this stuff is pulling from my life experience and personal trials that I’m trying to transmute through the screen in a macrocosmic fashion. What I mean by “macrocosmic” is the larger Truth than just our mundane lowercase truth; Like the larger Love, Princess Bubblegum sings about at the end."
It's a scene that unfortunately feels very... not right, and I think that was the point, but the execution is what I think makes this out to be way darker than it actually was.
As for me, I remember dropping AT for a while JUST because Finn and FP breaking up, but I've come to appreciate the story they were trying to tell. It was never meant to be something "fun" to watch at points, and honestly it's kind of cool. I don't know whether it's worse to show french kissing or implying it, maybe the latter seeing as it sparked all of this to start.
Ponyhead before Ponyhead
Truth.
At least ponyhead is actually fun and cool to look at.
Still wouldn't want either watching my cat for a week.
"Lumpy Space" is one of the more creative parallel dimensions in media. It's usually called something like "the in-between" or something vaguely spooky like that.
Something I’ve noticing is a lot of people interpreting the scene with LPS and Finn as a joke, and it was never implied as a joke. If you watch the scene again, no matter how much it makes me uncomfortable, but there are signs that this is not coming off as a joke Finn says right after LPS says I don’t want to take a dip in the kitty pool anymore. He says I’m not a good swimmer, and her reply was if I remember correctly, let me guide you or let me be your lifeguard. Something like that . This whole scene was never meant to be played as a joke at all and it’s supposed to be played out as more of a fin is trying to find himself and in the process of him, trying to find himself you end up getting into something that was a lot worse in the process this whole arc of was him trying to just , find himself, but in the process, he went through it between his dad and the whole LPS thing and him losing his arm and then regaining it again. This is not a timeline of this is gonna be played as a joke. This was meant for a serious moment for a serious time and I think that honestly as a survivor myself, this is really good representation is doesn’t come off of the joke. No one ever makes any hee hee ha ha moments and the only time I can , say oh so possibly laugh at that is when LPS says oh you got your arm back but even the whole after his arm got given back to him because of the flower that was obviously a representation of the deflowering literally, Finn’s flower got taken away, and he got his arm back in the process, which I feel like it’s just a sign of him, losing his virginity in one of the most horrid ways possible and there’s even an episode talking about the vault and things to Finn just doesn’t talk about and I feel like that one think of this kinda like how Steven universe put stuff off you gotta remember this is still a kids show, but the scenes are serious and so they’re gonna make it serious but serious enough the adults can understand and little kids can still watch the show without having to think too hard about it I feel like the scene did represent how uncomfortable stuff like this is and how it could be anybody that you know and not to mention the whole just feeling like I can’t believe that just happened or the sense so wow I don’t like myself anymore
I was ok with LSP and liked her in some episodes....untill THAT Episode with the r*pe Finn "joke". Even as a Kid that traumatized me.
I get frustrated with LSP, I think she can be hilarious and even kinda awesome in like a... drag show diva way, yanno? She's unapologetically herself and exerts confidence akin to a TLC reality TV star, it's somehow both envyable and pitiful but most of all it's entertaining.
Her actions in "Breezy" rly puts a terrible taste in my mouth and I hate that it happened in an episode so important to Finn's character arc (no to mention the foreshadowing of the Finn Sword) or I could at least pretend it didn't exist.
But I think the episode that actually upsets me the most about her is the that time travel episode, she just straight up erases a guy from existence, a guy who she was hitting it off with so well and could've been really happy with if she hadn't lost it to her own paranoia and jealousy. She just couldn't get out of her own way and pulled some of the most insane yandere shit she's ever done in the show.
It feels like an absurd cartoonish version of the type of self-sabotage you see from alot of mentally unstable teens and young adults, I've had former friends who I had to cut out of my life because they similarly couldn't get out of their own way and thus hurt themselves and everyone around them.
idk I'm probably stretching and making it deeper than it is but just seeing her being so close to having something truly good and healthy in her life only to ruin it all based on shit she made up in her own head and a lack of communication... it comes across as her subconsciously trying to take control of how the happiness ends so when it eventually (inevitably) does end it won't take her off guard - destroy the good thing before it can leave her or destroy everything around it so it has nowhere to go, and it just reminds me so much of ppl I've dealt with irl and it just makes my soul itch, yanno? makes me flail around in pure frustration
Man I watched the time travel episode right when it launched. Even 12 year old hated how childish she acted, she literally committed murder just bcz of pure jealousy with no proof to sustain her insecurities.
I didn't properly watch Adventure Time all the way through until a year or two ago and LSP was one of my favourites lmao. I never understood the hate she's so funny to me.
Edit: People not liking her because of the sexual assault 'joke' is totally valid. To me it reads less like something LSP would actually do and more like a harmful gag that the writers put it without really thinking about it; but if that's the reason for your hate then I can understand.
I enjoyed lsp until she ended up unconsensually deflowering Finn which just left a bad taste in my mouth and left me not liking her to much
@@alexiavega4851 She could’ve just given him sugar. They didn’t necessarily do the deed.
@JacksonVoet considering they used deflowering imagery with the flower on Finns arm and he says the memory is going in vault along with how lsp says she wants to play in the deep end and not the kiddy pool telling us the kiddy pool is the kiss. It could have been just my kid brain reading too much into it when I first saw it, though. And your interpretation is just as valid.
@@alexiavega4851 I think it’s a joke on deflowering, rather than an actual deflowering.
@JacksonVoet I see how you could see it that way. I just personally can't really enjoy the character after that kind of thing even if it was supposed to be a joke.
Finn fully healed from third-degree burns with FP. A lil more detail and we'd see how wrinkled and scarred Finn's body has become just from living in Oo
The Elemental Arc was such a weird way to take her character to. If the show is constantly trying to show us that she's unlikeable, then why make her an important asset in saving the world?
6:08 dude characters don’t need to be explained or have a reason for how they are. They just… are who they are. A constant theme of adventure time is “some things don’t need to be questioned”
I remember hating LSP when I was younger,but on my most recent rewatch she was one of the highlights. There's just something fun about a character that revels in their own shittiness
To me, it was quite the opposite experience. I believe her assaulting Finn really had a lot to do with it, as I grew older I started understanding better what that scene meant, which left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth! That was a very defining moment that recontextualized the way I view and interpret LSP
I'm loving this new plethora of Adventure Time content from you.
i associate her with the one time as a kid i got mad that i couldn't do an impression of her because my voice was too high 💀
I've always been in the camp that just absolutely HATES the character. Yes, I get that the joke is she's supposed to be insufferable, but when that's her one joke and I don't even find it funny, I can't bring myself to be anything other than annoyed any time she's on screen.
Actually.
Like I've known plenty of characters that you're supposed to hate, that are far more enjoyable to watch.
I genuinely don't understand the point in having a character that's insufferable, when you could literally just have a character that's normally enjoyable show their negative traits.
@@bluebird1914 yeah, insufferable characters are just... Insufferable. There's characters you love to hate and then there's ones you just cannot stand.
My huge issue with LSP is that she's too horny & those were all the jokes she had before her unceremonious development 😭😭even in AT she's an oddball
I’ve always found LSP a funny character, fun to watch. She’s funny to me because of her selfishness, the recklessness of her personality. She’s not meant to be written as a role model. Adventure time is no stranger to portraying mature themes despite the original audience- it’s actually a big part of why it’s always been my favorite show of all time. That scene in breezy does not feel like a joke to me, and I feel those who pass it off as a tasteless joke are missing the point. The whole tone of the episode (at least what Finn’s going through) is forlorn, so for it to be a joke would feel out of place anyways. There’s a lot to unpack in that scene, it’s supposed to be uncomfortable, it’s supposed to show Finn’s struggles in attempting to cope. LSP isn’t a great person but that doesn’t dampen the show. I love when shows write morally questionable characters. It makes them feel so much more real, because people like that exist in real life. LSP isn’t a great person, but she’s fun to laugh at.
anytime i try to watch adventure time this is the character that most makes me desperately just want to watch literally anything else
(the first episodes are just a struggle i guess)
She has like a hand full of episodes it's not that serious
Your commitment to media must have the lasting power of a goldfish's memory.
If it's hard for you to sit through 11 minute episodes I dead to think how hard the rest of your life must be lmao
yeah honestly. when i did my adventure time marathon, the first season was the most grueling season to watch
@@Miriam_J_What is wrong with you?
I'm not watching this bc spoilers, but i want it to be known i only know about this character bc there's a strain named after them that i smoked once
I haven't watched in years. Back when I watched I didn't even understand how someone could be "too old" for someone and thought Jake was just being closed minded for not wanting Finn to date adults. I didn't know about pedos yet.
Anyways, point is, I knew nothing back then. LSP was one of my favorite characters and not in the love to hate them kinda way, I just actually liked her.
So imagine my shock finding out there's an episode where she sexually assaults Finn... Feels surreal having it turn into a love to hate relationship so suddenly. A very strong hatred too.
4:06 there is no overconfidence because it's such an inner trait unaffected by how others think that it doesn't ingore others, it just causes the person to believe.
Arogance is what you mean, Arrognace is intentionally trying to act or seem better than others despite the facts, while confidence even if over can care for the reality and still choose to continue.
Lumpy was a "I'm better than you" not "i believe in Myself."
I feel like i still would have enjoyed her more if there was more comeuppance for her really bad behaviour, like in the episode where she ran away and had to face actual consequences. She didnt stop being herself, but seeing bad stuff happen to her when being herself meant being an idiot or a sassy shit was what made me laugh. Then the ending where she actually changed her behaviour a little while still feeling like the same character and things worked out better felt satisfying in its own way
Or the zombie episode where she wants those lips at any cost and gets zombified bc thats the cost
But then most of the time she shows up and just does...weird stuff that maybe has an impact on the story or maybe just annoys people and then thats it 😅
I will always love LSP but the weird dubious consent sex scene with her and Finn is so horribly misguided and out of place
Yes I agree 😅 I didn’t like it as a kid and I don’t like it now
Considering she had to be an adult from the start of the show since IK kidnapped her and he has shown he's not a pedophile, I don't think it's dubious, Finn can't consent to sex with an adult that's at least 6 years older than him. (He was 12 in season 1)
LSP Is straight up the reason why I never watched Adventure Time while It was airing, whenever AT was on It was always seamed to land on an episode she featured In which lead me to believe AT was just yet another lol-so-random cartoon filled with dislikeable characters (there were a lot of those around that time), then years later turns out AT Is a cult classic so strong content for It Is still being made.
I honestly believe the show would've been much better without her.
i was about to say the show would have been the exact same without her in it. but tbh if they switched stuff with that one mini series, it would be true.
"You Should Pay Attention When SomeBody Cool is Trying to Talk!"
- LSP -
17:01 I read this word VERY differently...
Admittedly i _somewhat_ liked LSP early on because i did see her being sassy and annoying as something that could have possibly developed into a more mature way for her to show her confidence... except that she really did not change at all throughout the show. I guess that her being an over the top version of a teenager was kinda funny, but got old to a degree. And that episode where she SAd Finn absolutely ruined her for me. I kind of pretended like i was confused, at first; especially since that whole episode was weird. But yeah, after that, i could not see her in the same way. And towards the end of the Elements arc, i was constantly wondering "WHY? WHY DOES SHE, OUT OF ALL PEOPLE, HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO FIX THIS? IS THIS SOME KIND OF JOKE?".
I finished AT recently and i kind of wish i had a reason to like her- but what she did in that episode is unforgivable and one of the reasons i did not like the middle seasons as much.
I just love her because she´s hysterical, even if she´s one of my personal´s favorite,I´m not able to make a video more than 5 minutes long about her
Wonderful analysis, I really hope the algorithm spreads this vid
my soul is LSP shaped
Even the you can do better than that part? 😭
9:50 the text on-screen says "self-invention" narrator says "self-illusion"!
Hey lumpy space will always be a solid gag
i honestly still kinda love her and i pretened that gross “”joke”” with finn never happened
I never really liked her to begin with, even before THAT scene. But I do try to be a bit more open-minded about her. I think she was done kinda dirty, writing wise.
We dont talk about lsp, "talks about lsp for 20 minutes"
I actually love lsp
I get whyd people wouldnt like her but i think shes a great addition to the ensemble
the biggest plot-twist of this video was truly the moment when the youtuber becamed black out of nowhere
I absolutely hate her, but at least she's better than Pony head.
0:14 I don’t know about that, I think that title goes to Trina Riffin from grojband
Grojband mentioned
Am I the only one who hates the "We don't talk about..." thumbnails of some of the most widely talked about characters in their series? Like who's we
Who is talking about LSP?
There used to be more talk of her, but not in 2024
@@Speed001 That's cause no one talks about Adventure Time anymore
@@backupschmliff1156but isn't this an Adventure Time video? And didn't an Adventure Time spinoff come out last year? Your point doesn't really hold up
@@AJotasticGamer I don't really care tbh with you. I had just recently seen yet another video called "We Don't Talk About Kenny" from the Walking Dead TellTale, which is an even dumber title because he's one of, if not the most talked about character behind Clementine.
ive literally never watched adventure time (idk why im here either) but even IVE seen that one scene
(Raises arms)
"Luuuumps"
I remember when she killed someone
holy crap flesh person jump scare
I quote her all the time, but only in my brain 🧠
18:51 what the hell do you means thats litterally what characters are about generally, ofcourse they can't do good things everytime as that isn't human or beliavable at all, sometimes people are greedy, spiteful, sloths, Glottuns, Prideful and so on.
Lumpy compared to Finn is more flawed but they are both important characters because of their flaws and redeeming qualities, it's what makes them feel beliavable than just punching bags, ofcourse its fine to relate to aspects of a Flawed character as that doesn't mean you condone any of their actions, it's the same reason you can like villians, you don't side with villians you like villains for varied reasons.
Oh my glob, Lsp is my favorite character 🩷
Lsp was and is my favorite character
As a kid I thought LSP was amusing. Hilarious even at times. But when I rewatched the show as an adult, I wasn’t laughing. She’d sometimes have a line or two that got a genuine laugh out of me, but for the most part, she was just unpleasant and boring.
Just as an example, I remember really liking the episode “The Monster” when I was younger. But I was just kinda bored when I watched it again, cause it’s just LSP being herself for 11 minutes.
The episode freaked me still till is day as a young adult, but Adventure time is a show for kids but a shory to tell to adults. I don't like the direction of the episode, but it shows how people can cross boundaries, and if you don't hold someone's actions accountable. LSP is someone you want better for but can't be around without having the urge to cuss them out. The way LSP behaves you would think that she had a horrible life to lead her to be Desparate enough to sleep in the woods. But she has loving parents, LSP character is very overkill and dramatic but we can all agree we've met a LSP, and probably even tried playing captain save a ho with them.
6:48 I get what he means, even though it shouldn't be that difficult to understand that well women are people too, there is a tendecy with sterotypes to be so common they become the norm, so it leads to this statement that would be generally incorrect to be true due to this fact.
They aren't written as characters who have gender that may add to that, they're just cliches with nothing more to them, Pb is a saving Princess Cliche for the Hero finn, which she subverts by being an actual Villain of the story though unfortunately the show messed up this statement later on: 7:02-7:14 atleast PB is an exception to this rule, lumpy in her current state isn't exactly someone you'd like to meet, but she is intersting, marcline yeah, Fire princess so on.
the reason Lumpy can work for that is she gets proper development and isn't generally excused for her actions, PB I wouldn't for the character she should still be she is not a person anyone should be with, until she grows and changes as a person she won't be much fun to hangout with.
I still like LSP, they could never make me hate you.
I truly do not think LSP SA'd Finn.
This show is known to cover dark topics, but SA as a topic for AT during this period seems highly unlikely given that it was still airing on CN and is something incredibly hard to actually frame in a realistic and respectful light whenever you would have to be masking it all to be able to get it past review for CN. I think the most obvious reason for why this scene wasn't SA outside of the fact that it would be highly inappropriate to try and cover that on CN is that after this episode this supposed SA literally does not change how Finn interacts with LSP in any way and the actual real ramifications of it are never brought up or developed further; I feel as if they wanted to actually cover SA in AT, they would of given it its own episode(s) instead of throwing it in as a barely side-plot for another episode which revolves around themes of regret and moving on.
The themes of regret and moving on in the Breezy episode are also why I don't think scene is SA, the entire episode has Finn running around doing these explorative and impulsive things in the pursuit of filling the void caused by all of the terrible things that've recently happened in his life, it makes no narrative sense for them to make an episode about these things only to then just throw us a curveball "and then he got SA'd" in the middle of it; sure it technically fits the themes of regret and moving on I suppose, but it is very much not taking it seriously to just shove it in there and then never ever bring it up again in the series in any capacity as I mentioned before. I think it is far more likely, given that Finn was having lots of implied casual romantic encounters with women (e.g. asking Doctor Princess on a date, kissing Crab Princess, Breezy) following the heavy troubles he had experienced recently, that the scene with LSP was simply meant to be viewed as another one of these casual romantic encounters taken to the level of implied sex.
I can very much see why someone can misconstrue the LSP scene as SA, with Finn only going in for a single kiss and LSP being the one to want more and be vocal about it, then going on to kiss him as they go further with it. I feel like this is merely the result of them trying to fit this subplot in with everything else in the episode and writing it in a somewhat subpar manner that allowed it to be taken incorrectly when viewed a certain way. Initially, Finn kisses LSP and then pulls back immediately, saying that they had made out which implies he is inexperienced. LSP, of course, is a bit dismayed and says she wants to go further. Finn doesn't give a clear implication of disinterest from the prospect, only stating he's not good at going further. LSP, being LSP, then takes charge to kiss him and take it further for them both, which Finn does not struggle against at all.
Obviously, Finn not outright showing disinterest or not struggling does not mean it is not SA as plenty of SA can happen under those conditions, but at the same time it is not inherently SA just because the writers didn't make Finn verbally consent with a yes or excitedly jump into going further. This is what I meant by the scene being written in a somewhat subpar manner, it should of been more concise whether or not Finn wanted to go further if it was truly meant to be taken as SA instead of him being inexperienced or vice versa, or at the very least they should of developed this SA idea more in the story so we would know why he seemed so indifferent to begin with. Furthermore, Finn as a character at this point is known to be a very stubborn fighter, I highly doubt if he was being SA'd that he would freeze up or be so nonchalant about the whole thing. Yes, SA is different for a lot of people and some fighters might lock up during such an event, but I still highly doubt that Finn, who has been shown to not be afraid of handling or standing up to LSP, would allow her to just do stuff to him he didn't want her to do; there have been plenty of moments in the show up until now where people have tried to get Finn to do stuff he didn't want to do (both involving his body and not) only for him to continue not doing them to the best of his ability. I get that it could be different for SA but I don't see an argument for why that's what's happening in this scene. My final point about why I don't think this scene was SA, is LSP's continued close relation to the main cast (including Finn, who is seemingly unbothered by her being an SAer in any interaction hereon). LSP is very good friends with Marceline who is dating PB, both of which who are good friends with Finn. LSP is also friends with many more characters indirectly or directly positively tied to Finn, which would mean that lots of character relationships would most likely have to be changed in largescale through one or several episodes just because they sandwiched in this one SA scene, and I am sure you are all aware that this never happens nor does any kind of resolution or development of this SA of Finn. I don't think there is any world where the writers of AT intended for this to be an SA only for them to give so little in the way of making it actually concisely that and something that actually matters at all, it really only makes sense to me that this was simply something meant to be in theme with the regret-and-move-on aspect of the episode with this being the analog for real life casual sex encounters, which I think is really the darkest sexual topic AT would of ever dared try to covertly cover on CN.
Of course I could be wrong and they could've been waiting until Fiona and Cake for some reason to even progress this plotline 1 centimeter from where it was created.
We California girls do not claim her. 🛑
I don't think the scene was ever meant to be read as a joke and I'm kinda surprised it was interpreted that way by this comment section. The theme of the episode was very deliberate in my opinion. To me it feels like bad media literacy
Finn was very vulnerable and coping in unhealthy ways, which allowed lsp to take advantage of him.
That being said, I think it was a clumsy writing decision to make one of the main chatacters that is supposed to be likeable into a r*pist. I also couldn't stand lsp after this episode. I guess it would have been too heavy for a kids show to deal with the aftermath, but in that case, the better alternative would have been to write a new chatacter for the assault scene.
Am I one of the only ones that actually liked her?
I liked her as well
It's OK to like her but she has bad traits that doesn't make her unworthy of being liked just off-putting to some and understanding that might make it easier to process why you like character like vs having to defend her or question your loke in such character
13:55 it's much worse when you realize LSP is 3 years older than Finn
Haven’t watched the video yet but will leave my opinion here before I do:
I’m not a big fan of LSP, but she had some fun moments and was occasionally enjoyable to watch. My main issue with her is how they had her SA Finn but continued to have her be a reoccurring and, for lack of better word, friendly character. She never seems like the writers are forcing you to like her, but they rarely feel like they call out her annoying or even downright awful behaviors. In regards to the SA, I can understand why the writers couldn’t really address it any further than they did given it’s a kids show, but I still wish they could’ve done something more than just throw it in there and move on.
2:12 this man looks like Tim Schafer. But that can't be him can it? 😅
She’s a teenager?
Good show dude.
this is a great video !
I used to love LSP, she was one of my favourite characters. I watched this video to get a more in depth analysis of her because of it. Only to find out that she….did that… to Finn. I can’t believe I found out this way. I’ve watched Adventure time for years and never once came across that episode. I can’t see her the same way ever again after this video. It has ruined her for me. A part of me wishes I never stumbled across this video and continued living in blissful ignorance about this side of her :/
I dated a girl with her personality ugh
I didn’t really read LSP’s… transgressions as being intended as funny. It felt like it was intended to be shocking or something relatably uncomfortable to a teen audience. Idk, I’ve been in situations like that. Not the kind of thing I hold against the LSPs of those situations. We were young, hormonal, and stupid. Picking up on more understated communication when you’re younger can be tough.
Really I just wish the moment wasn’t crammed into Breezy. I think it should have been its own focused uncomfortable episode with a more clear lesson about communication, consent, processing situations like that in a healthy way, and maybe giving a little more meat to the honestly sort of interesting dynamic between Finn and LSP.
I started to genuinely loathe LSP after she S.A'd Finn. I understand the writers intention, but Gods if they could have portrayed it in a different way
no we don't
Do not compare. Lspn to Turning red that's not a right comparison.
LSPN ?
@@seeleunit2000 Lumpy Space Princess, Nope.
i like pendleton ward. i think he's a good writer - adventure time, and midnight gospel are two of my favorite works of fiction. but i don't think the writing in adventure time is good at portraying either gender. whenever the show focuses on it, it seems to go sour. i think princess bubblegum is an even worse example than lsp in this case. she's a f@scist, hypocritical monster that cuts people apart for fun, and that's not out of place for a leader in adventure time. but when you add on that layer of manipulating finn so deliberately, and unapologetically, it takes the cushion of surrealism away. as demonstrated with lsp, and that nonconsensual scene, it only takes one botched joke to recontextualize an entire character into being unforgiveable.
that joke reminds people of real situations where romantic, or sexual activities were forced on them. bubblegum reminds me of real people who have tricked me into believing they had good in them, when they're full of nothing but evil. for me, the equivalent of that lsp moment for bubblegum is when she's revealed to actually be jealous of flame princess being with finn. and when it's revealed she used ice king to secretly engage in environmental warfare against the flame kingdom, just so she could dominate flame princess. if it was just one, or the other, it wouldn't be so bad. both of them happening paint her as a deeply depraved sadist who derives her greatest joy from controlling others against their will. and the show does not call her out in ways that convey an awareness of what's wrong with her. having her turn off those cameras was already meaningless before it was shown that she still spies on people, because it's just her narcissistic way of trying to feel like she's a good person, after justifying her petty campaign of vengeance on flame princess with fake paranoia. yeah, bubblegum. i'm sure your desire to harass a teenager makes you very paranoid of her nation's superweapons. what a good person you are for leaving her one of them, that's totally not just a selfish ego stroke at the expense of your kingdom's safety. the one you supposedly destroyed the other superweapons for.
that context makes everything else she does in the series foul. marceline isn't her girlfriend, she's her toy. the candy kingdom aren't her people, they're her toys. ooo isn't a setting, it's just a big toybox, for the ✨🍬_most perfect person in the universe_🍬✨ to use, and discard. she's had centuries to learn about the world she lives in, and she hasn't learned a thing about morality, other than the fact that she can get away with violating it. there is no magic artifact corroding her brain, and there is at least one other organism that came out of the mother gum who's not evil. there is no excuse for her behavior. bubblegum should have died with the lich's introduction. if we could've known back then the kind of person she was, her perishing in that radioactive waste would've been poetic, because she's a walking analogue for what probably started the mushroom wars in the first place.
phew. i'd been keeping that in for a while.
Theres alot of conclusions being jumped to here but i see why if were trying to logically think of these characters as people then these would not be a stretch to see. I think a point was missed when a egotistical absolute tiara princess we are suppose to hate is "hateable" when that was the point. Oh no, dont hate the character youre suppose to hate. Shes obnoxious. Youre not suppose to be comfortable or agree with half the things she does. Lsp is the personification of obnoxious. Her element is literally being so self centered and obnoxious that she saves the day one times somehow. Shes a really good thing for other characters to bounce off of.
Pb though? She acts super morally bankrupt at times and feels like she misses something vital making her human. She feels like a skinwalker character at times. I can never put a finger on it. I think some of this is abit of a reach. She doesn't feel narcissistic as much as she forgets and literally doesnt know how to be considerate from a lack of consequences to her actions. She identifies as princess first and foremost. Her yearn for control and paranoia of safety leads her to overlook many things she never sees as important enough. If you want a case for pb not being a complete sociopath, watch the pb and rainicorn episode where ricardio returns.
The thing that bugs me about this in particular is how in the early seasons theres teeny tiny jokes the Bubblegum isnt the greatest person bur was still overall good. I feel like a lot of the PB is a monster crap came with the mid season changes. People say Adventure Time grew with the viewers which I can normally agree with but that doesnt mean necessarily change things to interpersonal drama. I'll tell you right now, not everyone in their life EXPERIENCES interpersonal drama. I was over it by high school the time where everything is allegedly supposed to be about "drama". I speedran that stage of life because because it was unnecessary bushi. Alot of Bubblegums more messed up implications happen during those seasons. I hate them, and not in a constantly thinking about it way, It made an awkwardly funny comfortable show into something I had no song and dance with because I "prematurely" outgrew "drama". They had an out making PB and Finn the same age after the Lich introduction eps but that didn't last naught but a single episode, back to status quo before assassinating her character for "plot development". Which makes my feeling on her and marceline being a couple more complicated for better or worse.
In the miniseries episodes like the glass kingdom one, I think they make a cute couple, but that doesnt excuse the lingering things on PB that've never been addressed. Now what I loved alot too was the Fiona and Cake Evil PB and Good Ice King dynamic Candy Witch's character is one of catharsis but it gets turned into a "PB could be much worse than she is thing" thing by the writers, rather than playing it straight because there could be so much potential there for other interesting developments. The vampire universe implies a toxic relationship between Peebs and Marceline which as much as I love that episode Nah, not dealing with that. The only time they're not entirely messed up is Marshall Lee and Human PB (forgot his name) because theyre based off a Prismo's interpretation of what going on in his friends lives. Almost as if Bubblegum wasn't a secret f@scist things wouldn't be so messy or something. Maybe im crazy and thinking into a bit too much but I can't shake the PB is absovled of sin because there's people worse than her. If all they did was have like a big frustrated apology for all the crap followed by her following through on changing for the better it would fix things but idk. I still love the show but I think i'll stick to the early seasons and near the end from now on. Too much baggage I never related to
1:17 I wish it was earned, PB didn't deserve that win she didn't entirely overcome her issues, she didn't make up for the suffering she committed on so many individuals including Finn, he just made up for what he was hurt by and also that past Slur she used to my knowledge was never mentioned again even though that should've been an important thing she would have to overcome to earn Marceline's respect.
Basically the show excused her too much, sometimes it worked as well in the moment she as likely to be punsished, however the fact it never came back to bite her barely or at all is disgusting, I love her as a Caring Tyrant, just hate she half Magic maned her Growth.
Now she gets the Baddest bitch alive for basically not trying, I may want that but I know it's wrong because I wouldn't be strong enough to love that person.
PB was one of the biggest fumbles Adventure time had, she was a great character who's pointetiall wasn't fully realised.
Nah, PB is one of the best characters and her grey morality is exactly why. She cares about her friends, even Finn. Rewatch the show or something, the worst thing she does to Finn is "lead" him on, but I genuinely think you're blaming a woman for being kind to a child if you do that. Jake lies to Finn, thinking PB is into him while she's explaining what'd happen to Flame Princess if Finn kissed her,, which leads to that scene every single person takes out of context where Finn yells at PB for "leading him in" when it was really Jake making stuff up completely. He doesn't apologize for this ever either iirc, so I guess Jake is a bad character too now? Honestly, Jake is always making Finns life harder and misguiding him, he's done far worse to Finn than PB ever has. She was only ever truly interested in Finn when she was around his age, but even then it seemed to be a fantasy she was escaping to and knew she could choose to end at anytime. It's also hard to care about the suffering she commits when the candy people are so dumb. They're like, barely functional. They'd all die off in a week without her, cause she kinda wants it that way, which is super cool for a princess to have as part of their character. More shows should do the whole morally grey Princess thing, it's great.
Marceline and her unserious additude were a big problem in their relationship. Marceline would lash out a lot because of her detachment issues. Like, she sang an entire song embarrassing her politically in front of another kingdom. That's pretty bad! They both have to accept each others apology and take blame for their share of the relationship. It's very mature, imo. It's why I love their relationship.
As for her not "making up" for what she did, in real life, people you love, your family or your friends will do or say something wrong to you. There's a chance they won't even apologize to you, ever. That's just how people are. From then, you decide wether to forgive them or cut them off. There are enough cartoons with pink princesses that are nothing but kind, generous rulers to their kingdoms. Having one be kinda an asshole is awesome, actually.
I honestly think breezy, and the arc around it, is a big part of why I stopped watching AT fot a whileeee.
The writing was wack, no other way to explain it for me, everything felt strange and wrong, and that climaxed with breezy, just genuinely not a good era of AT, and the EXTREMELY uncomfortable implications towards LSP and Finns interactions is the most obvious issue with this era
It was such a poorly handled situation that I just don't think AT ever needed.
It's really bizarre to me that both this video and a lot of the comments seem really adamant on reading that scene with LSP as SA. The only resistance Finn showed to her advances was him saying "I'm not a good swimmer", which not only is going along with her teasing analogy (something that Finn wouldn't do if he legitimately wanted to get away from her), but also isn't even direct resistance. All that implies is that he's either taken her analogy literally, which is highly unlikely given he's already conquered his fear of the ocean, or he's simply saying that he's inexperienced in being more intimate than a quick kiss. LSP's comment after that implies that she'll take the lead and help him through it. The fact that people interpreted that as even remotely implying SA is insane to me.
He looked uncomfortable after tho. its a gross scene
These people are having flashbacks and projecting their trauma onto a CARTOON CHARACTER... We're cooked as a society
He clearly looked uncomfortable. kiss or sex, he didnt seem to exactly want her to do what she did and after the scene he said something about needing to forget what happen and never tell anyone has a scary implication that something horrible happened that he dont want tp rememeber and feels embarresed/possibly scared to tell anyone. If nothing really happen why would he say that?
Also she literally made him kiss her at finns lowest point which just no, thats scummy and really bad behaviour
@@geNem97 He had a completely neutral expression throughout the entire thing.
@@Loifey "If nothing really happen why would he say that?"
Because he didn't say that. He checked on his *flower* (the whole reason he went around kissing princesses to begin with was because it was sad) and it proceeded to lose a petal. He said he would forget it just did that because it's symbolic for him ignoring his instincts which tell him that kissing princesses won't make him happy. You are literally making things up to prove your point.
"she literally made him kiss her at finns lowest point which just no"
Finn literally sought her out to do that. He knew where she lived, went there, and then (presumably as this is what he did with all the others) asked her to kiss him.
I always hated LSP
6:10 it's similar to how PB refuses to well learn from her errors, But like Lumpy is arrogant Lump ofcourse she wouldn't change so easily or care about it, PB maybe pretty Psychopathic but she is intelligent surely she could learn from the mistakes she makes in hurting people more than just turning off her emotional Intellgience inhibitors.
yet she just kinda decides to ingore it, the worst part isn't really just that is more so show the show kinda just seemed to have forgotten to punish PB for being arrogant to encourge her and show a point about how the only reason she changes is because it benefits HER and only HER not because it's right or important, Finn should've blasted her for this, he can be gooby but he ain't stupid or entirely.
He should've pointed that out as a fair critism to PB when he got older.
Yeah I just really wish she was less prevalent of a character. She really takes down alot of episodes she's in.
2:41 from what I know Princess Peach isn't a Caring tyrincal parent, again I do hate PB for being a badly excuted idea.
Though her characterzation is usually limited to just be a plot device to cause conflict instead of just like having mario be a character who wishes to overcome bowser for more reasons, like improving himself, discourging his likely other bad behavoiur, overthowing him cause he is a tyrant.
Yet he isn't allowed to as much so she's reduced down to it.
L take, PB is one of the best characters in the show. Maybe you really should stick to Nintendo games if she's too evil for you...
14:35 yeah and thats why someone like PB sucks, she doesn't due enough to account for her many actions, of Cruelty, coercion, genocide, basically killing her own child and step child, harrasment, Racism, Arrogance.
most of them weren't really tackled much, like her role in the magic city was just being absolute crazy Lump, like she never rightfully made up for her horrible disregard for other people's unique safe lives in magic, or harrasing them over trying to act superior, or Apologize for forcing Ice King to give her information on it she didn't really need to go for.
She is a Great example of how to mess this up.
oh i absolutely love lsp
It my cats name,
👾
LSP is a babe!
wait California girl!?
I never noticed!
I was born & raised and lived in CA for 43 years! Am I a fish not noticing that I am wet?
XD actually amazing n funny analogy lmao
I liked her until that one episode..
I LO❤E LSP l . Honestly see was my favorite
12:08 I feel this entire thing was bullshit as it completely assisanated Finn's character for this to happen, Finn isn't a Manipulative piece of shit, he can be he just generally chooses honesty, so him letting his impulses fully take him is too out of character to make this fall off beliavable.
Leading to it seeming like the writers forced a break up rather than make it be Naturally occuring due to missing information, Finn can be immature but he isn't nowhere this level of such.
its insane people are admitting in this comment section that men can be SA'd. this is literally the singular first time ive ever seen it get discussed for the many years that the news has been slinging feminist stories about oppression. when will they realize we are people too? we have emotions and feelings and go through almost every single issue women go through save for giving birth or having a period. its insane the levels of vitriol between genders nowadays
If a bad joke about sexual impropriety from my character who is improper in every other way ruins the character then you should be watching a show about actual bubblegum princesses.
Likable characters do worse stuff than the villains of the show as dubbed by the Twitter audience, it's a show about killing fairies and monsters in exchange for sexual favors that ran for 10 seasons that's going to happen.
That flame princess s*** was f**** there's no other way to put it but it's finns story and we saw his hardships and his f***** up dreams.
You can say that she deserves a seven season ark to explain but she's a minor side character the assault was Finn's story.