I’ve watched that entire Tony Williams clinic video and the simple thing that Tony said that I got the most out of was, he said something like “you know sometimes when you go to play something (live) and you think I hope this works out. Well, I decided I never wanted to be in that position. I always want to know that what I play is going to work and be what I want it to be”. That really focused a lot of my playing. As usual another great Q-Tip! Thanks
What a shame Mr Williams left us so soon. God only knows what he would be doing now. People say Tony played too loud. I sat right in front of that big yellow Gretch kit at the Vanguard once and i can tell you they are wrong. He played STRONG and confident. Big difference. It wasn't loud at all. Great lesson and insight once again Q. Thnx. 🥁
Amen! Fortunately, the great Marvin Bugalu Smith taught me this in 1976, so I've had time to learn it... 😉 With my students, one thing I stress, so to get even doubles, is to play the roll in triplets (8-notes first, 16 etc. much later) with no accents. In this way, the triplet movement really makes you listen deeply to each stroke, and pay attention to the fluidity of the exchanges between the hands. Great lesson as usual, Q. Thank you! 🙏
Another great lesson Q. I joke with my students that they often turn their drum lesson into flying lesson because they let go of the sticks and make little wings with the back three fingers. I really appreciate your shout out to DCI. The precision they employ in their playing is completely applicable to any style of music. BTW, I think SCV got robbed with their 5th place finish this year, as their show was quite spectacular.
This is amazing. Last night I was spinning Miles Davis’s Sorcerer CD and there’s a cut called “Vonetta” in which Tony Williams plays rolls and buzz rolls throughout the entire song that sound absolutely symphonic in there precise execution. He truly was a master.
Q that was an excellent lesson. I saw Tony Williams years ago. He started his solo with double strokes. They were clean. He even used different stick heights. I was amazed at his double strokes being clean. Seeing him started me playing drums again.
I feel incredible relief and liberation after seeing this. I had a devil of a time trying to master a controlled bounce, especially on my left, but I kept at it because most YT drummers say that's the way to achieve speed, "taking advantage of the rebound." Maybe there's an element of that in what you teach, but I'm so glad to just hold the damned stick again.
I'm all about controlling each stroke like it's a single stroke but there are different schools of thoughts and we all have to figure out which school works best for us. Glad my "school" works with you:)
At 54, I finally decided to get more nuanced and appreciate the instrument more. I regret not doing it earlier in life. So naturally I’ve seen many many videos on the double stroke. And in most cases, the push/pull comes up and fingers get used at higher speeds just to facilitate the 2nd bounce. Correct me if I’m wrong, but what I’m seeing here is the advocation on no finger pull…at all..for the rebounding? Thank you for the video and I’m just trying to learn an old dog new tricks here. tyvm✌🏻
Great lesson, especially when you discussed the mechanics- what to do with your hands to achieve even rolls. Everyone says to work on the 2nd strike but they don’t say how. You did! Concentrating on how to do it with my hands made a difference in one practice session! I’m not done yet but this is making a difference.
I’m a new drummer and this video was an absolute game changer for me. I cannot tell you how helpful this was. The finger this was ruining my playing. Thank you so much for this.
I was lucky enough to have taken a private lesson with Tony at his loft in Harlem right around the time Million Dollar Legs came out. In fact, when i finally made to him (trains, subways etc as I lived in NJ) he had just received his first box of albums! He was a bit preoccupied. His loft had a pad set and his world famous yellow Gretch kit! After some conversation and phones calls he had to take, he finally asked me to play! I was around 19 - 20 at the time and had “prepared” a solo I was going to play for him! Lol. I nervously started to walk to the drums when he said… “no, no, the pads …”. Well I was immediately deflated lol but I went to the pads and “diddled” around (no pun intended). After a few minutes, his first piece of advice and main take away of the lesson was “play every stroke”! And then he proceeded to show me exactly what you’re showing everybody right now and at the time I was a little upset because the lesson was expensive and I didn’t really feel like I needed to see Tony Williams to learn how to hold the sticks. I kind of looked at him a little perplexed and I sure I said some thing but I don’t remember what it was but he says to me, “what do you expect me to show you all my licks? “ Lol. I mean this was THE Tony Williams who to this day is still my favorite drummer of all time so that’s what I left with and as it turns out looking back all these years it’s probably the most effective piece of advice as far as technique goes that I ever got from anyone!
@@drumqtips thanks !!!! And must say I love your channel and your drumming!!! It was amazing … there’s more… the lesson cost like 125 I think which back around 1980ish was a lot of money . I was actually 23 or so and playing in a full time cover rock band at the time but I was a jazz jazz fusion lover. WRVR was THE jazz station in nyc! Anyway since I left Tony’s with “just” what I thought was a basic lesson on holding the sticks, I decided I couldn’t afford that kind of $! For that so I didn’t call back. A few weeks later Tony called ME!! Man I was lame and told him I had to fix my car blah blah totally having no clue as to how valuable that lesson turned out to be! I went on to study with the great Barry Altshul (sam rivers. Chick C and also Horacee Arnold (tales of an exonerated flea!) I’ve always been an over qualified rocker. Lol!! Creativity is always my most important reason for making music although we can’t always be in those type of situations. Thanks for appreciating the memory!!
I gotta admit, Q, I saw this video of Tony's explanation many years ago and was secretly annoyed that he considered my technique at the time "willy nilly", then I worked on his technique, and realized Tony's technique made it so that muscle memory took over as opposed to reliance on bounce, which is the absolute core of drumming! Blessings bro, great video✌🏼
God Bless You Quincy. Love your Drumming and Beutifull Persona you Rone Great Great Maestro De Maestros Bendisiones Para usted Familia. Carmelo papote Rios Arecibo Puerto Rico and Jersey
‘That helicopter sound’ There’s a clue right there, thanks MrQ. The DSR is something I’ve struggled with for the last ten months I’ve been learning this gorgeous instrument. The high flying bounce approach has never worked for me. If I may say here, the Ralph Rolle/DrumDog video was a great help and so is this. Big time, thank you ✌️🌻🇦🇺
@@drumqtips in some ways you remind me of my first drum teacher, Tim Kennedy (RIP) who delivered his lessons with a smile but he also took no nonsense if I didn’t practice. I feel there is a joy to your playing and there is a joy to your instruction because fundamentally there is a sense of joy in your being so thank you for allowing that to always filter through. 🥁✨
Thanks so much for the lessons! You’re the only guy inspiring me right now. I’m older and rebuilding from a multitude of injuries, I find my muscles cramping when I attempt this method I’ve heard taught by Tony. Is this normal, can this technique cause damage? Honestly, I feel like it’s working muscles that have never been touched before and that makes me believe I need to build them. Just don’t want to go down the path of destruction in trying to get better…or even back to even.
Ok, now I am born in another era and in another country. But I did learn how to play the drums. One of my old drum teachers used to tell me "Break up some drum rolls a day, and you´ll keep the doctor away". Well, he did not actually say that and it was in another language. It is the meaning of it though. Practice your drum rolls. Every. Day. Yeah, I was a rock´n roll kid so I played rock´n roll. It took me a while to realize that this drum roll thing was good for my general playing. It is so boring, but it works. If I would have followed my teachers advice, I would be a professional now. I am not. But I still sometimes break down a drum roll and enjoy hearing my neighbors commenting on "it sounded like rain yesterday, but it was sunny?" :D
Thank you so much for this video man. I have searched quite a bit for good advice on how to clean these up, but your video actually articulated it in a way that could be easily followed. Back when I was in band in high school, we used to call the grip you refer to as the one we should not use, as the "teacup grip", for obvious reasons... I've always known it was wrong, but no one has ever been able to articulate how it make it work with the correct grip. Thanks again.
Can you make a video explaining Tony Williams right hand ride cymbal technique when he plays 5 notes in a row... That "signature" Tony Williams ride cymbal pattern he uses to turn the time around. That'd be sweet. 👍🥁
Learning to keep all my fingers on the stick and using the natural motions of the wrist and fingers together have helped me improve my doubles. Playing displaced doubles has helped a lot as well. I do an exercise where I play doubles for a measure and then a measure of displaced doubles and that exercise has helped me get more even consistent doubles.
Your playing sounds great and your explanations are easy to understand. Even when you're demonstrating "Sloppy Joe" you sound great (which is probably not what you want to hear). Anyway, great videos. I'm inspired 🙂
Great explanation on double stroke. I like when you said breathing plays important keeping you relax. Tony Williams was a monster in his doubles. On point with another lesson Quincy
I've watched those Tony Williams clinic videos a lot. I believe he begins his performance by playing a - very clean and powerful - double stroke roll. An exercise I found useful for cleaning up my double strokes is pulling one hand away while playing a roll and making sure the double on each hand sounds really clean. The practice pad I use has a foam cover you can lay over the pad's surface which makes you work a little more for the bounce. It ensures I am working the entirety of each hand to get those doubles.
“Sloppy joe” 😂 Yes, firm but relaxed - I teach the same concept with the bow hold for better bow control. Go SCV! Thought they deserved a higher placement.
That was a great lesson, Quincy! I fulcrum on my middle fingers and have been hitting that barrier to the articulation in my band sessions. I'll work this pinky/whole-hand thing into my practice tonight. Also, it is a joy to hear your playing on these videos and it communicates well with the worded concepts. 🥁
Q. I am reAlly confused! Your saying that you play your double stroke roll articulating each stroke? There has got to be some degree of bounce to get up to speed
Premise: you are an awesome teacher and I enjoy your lessons as much as I enjoy listening to your playing. I absolutely get what you are trying to convey with this lessons but I just don’t understand how you can be so fast without leveraging the stick bounce
GREAT LESSON I HAVE MY STUDENTS PRACTICE THE GORILLA STROKE ON A PILLOW. THEN MOVE TO THE PRACTICE PAD SO THEY ARE FORCED TO AVOID DEPENDING ON THE BOUNCE. THEN TO THE DRUM, AND THEN WITH OTHER PLAYERS IN FRONT OF THE MIRROR. THIS TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND PRACTICE BUT THE RESULTS ARE AWESOME. YOUR CHOPS WILL SOUND VERY POWERFUL AND YOUR DRUMLINE WILL SOUND SO MUCH CLEANER AND STRONGER.
Ned from España here to say ....Yes indeed Dr. QD ! Great advice, lesson, breakdown and application. Thank you also to the late great Tony Williams. Sad that someone hasn't remastered that video yet. Once you can get the doubles even and strong it does so much for everything else. I like doing that exercise accenting the second beat because that forces me to engage my hands more and concentrate on evenness and control. Still working on it too because a well played roll is a sweet sound. Awesome Mr Davis. Question did you say that Philly Joe 4 stroke ruff is RLLR ? Thanks again
Yes! Lately I’ve been trying find the right balance of firmness and looseness with the grip.. too firm and you lose fluidity, too loose and you lose clarity/definition.
youre a fantastic teacher. much respect from scotland. best wishes. can you help me with my flam double drag? I wanna play it like Larry mullen during the chorus of Pride (in the name of love).
Hi, would you mind making a video about this Tony approach to singles? Because I think that he is the only drummer in history that has used that kind of thing, all the other drummers are using fingers and rebound, in my opinion.
Thanks for the kind compliment:) The key with getting better and improving at something is consistency doing it EVERYDAY. So it's less about how long per day and it's more about how many weeks in row should you do it. I would say, do everyday for no longer than 20 minutes. You will notice a big improvement. Daily practice is the key though. Cheers
Q, when we speed up we have to eventually hit that transition point from wrist (control) strokes to bounce, right? So when you speed up around 7:45 you're switching to bounce right (eg one wrist stroke for two notes) right? But just a more controlled bounce correct? Might it come down to three approaches: wrist, fingers, bounce - and practicing all three (eg just wrist, just fingers, just bounce) and then being able to combine them and use more or less of each at different tempos/applications? Thanks as always!
In this video, I never switch to fingers. If I’m using them, it’s very little. I should have demonstrated playing that speed on my leg to show that I was still not relying on bounce. But it’s ok to use fingers a bit as long as you’re controlling each bounce and it sounds even. Thanks!
I think it's about how your specific body mechanics work. A lot of drummers find transitioning to fingers gets them the fast doubles they're after and some drummers have more success playing from the wrist. I naturally play from the wrist and was making ok progress with my doubles until I started looking for more detailed instructions, all of which said to use rebound and play from my fingers.... after 6 months of frustration and zero progress I went back to playing from my wrists and started progressing again. There's this misconception that you *have* to use rebound a loose grip and fingers to get fast doubles and it's just not true.... it's one way to get there but it's not the only way. If you're having trouble with your doubles try playing out of the back of your hand more and accenting the second note and see if that gets you where you want to go.
That is also what I don't understand from this video lesson (by the way thank you very much for your time and your love for sharing). My understanding is that fast tempos require to move from 2 wrist movements with 1 stroke each to 1 wrist movement while two strokes. I don't really undersatnd how it is possible from the mechanical stand point and I would love to get more insights based on TW subject. May be another video 🙂 ?
@@HappyDaddy3x I don't mean to butt in but think of it as the two stroke Moeller. Instead of using your fingers to generate the second note you use the motion of your wrist as your arm comes back up to generate it. If you cock your wrist downwards as your arm is coming back up you're still getting the 2 notes from one motion deal.
The end goal is to have a roll that sounds like "tearing a window shade". Once you have it you'll have it forever. In the Jurrasic period I learned the double stroke roll fast first- its far better to start slow. Embrace the open double stroke roll. It is just as effective as a single if you own it.
Great video. Doubles have felt so off for me for ages, hopefully I can get them nice and smooth with this advice (: . Also the Japanese at 13:34 caught me off guard, is there any particular reason you said that? Currently studying abroad in Japan and got started on drums(as opposed to a practice pad) thanks to my uni lol haha
Good luck with those doubles! They can be tricky for sure but just make sure you start slow using your wrists. I speak Japanese so sometimes I speak Japanese in my videos for fun. lol
Thx Q ! It does make a difference. Could you elaborate on this “end fingers” grip ? Watched this Tony video a while ago, and worked on his idea of using muscles to lift the stick, letting gravitation pulling it down. How far are you into this concept ? I am a bit confused, just when do you use which grip … when to use back fingers to propel the stick ?
Don’t overthink it. Just keep your pinky on the stick and use your wrist to move the stick. As it gets faster, you can incorporate more fingers but strive to keep your wrist engage no matter how fast you need to play.
@@drumqtipsthanks for the Drum roll lesson, i was able to get my first "ok" doublestrokeroll out of it. I was one of the hard hitters that learned to play in the 90s with an hard focus on hard music, i never practized rudiments or drum rolling since now, kinda.
I'm a little confused. If I slow the video down at 7:35 to 0.25x speed, it looks very much like the back fingers are slapping the stick down for the second stroke? Maybe the tiniest hint of wrist. Its controlled sure; the back 2 fingers are not losing contract with the stick, but I thought that was normal for a double stroke roll? It doesn't look to me like the back 2 fingers are literally wrapped around holding the sticks as such, just controlling it with the fulcrum remaining at the front of the hand. Hence my confusion ;-)
Looks can be deceiving…I guess🤣🤣. There’s definitely some give with the back fingers but the stroke is being generated from the wrist more. Thanks for watching Mr. Alien drummer 👽
3:30 -- This is what always has confused me about the 'Tony Williams thing'; Tony Williams (excerpt) shows that the pinky and ring fingers are gripping the stick. In looking at your demonstration, while gripping with your pinky/ring it looks like you are still using the index and thumb -- this confuses me. If gripping the stick from pinky/ring, and still using index/thumb - where is the fulcrum ? Why does this confuse me so much? when I've tried this (gripping from pinky/ring), I usually have my index and thumb basically hanging around the stick, not even gripping it really. (it always feels very wrong to me)
Fulcrum is between pointer and thumb. I’m not “gripping” the stick with my pinky, just making sure it’s rapped around the stick in a relaxed way. Hope that helps!
I feel personally attacked by that first double stroke roll because even that was better than whatever the hell I am doing. Great video as always!
Haha!! I swear I wasn't coming after you BQ🤣
Haha! I thought the same thing.
I feel ya!😂👏🏻
I’ve watched that entire Tony Williams clinic video and the simple thing that Tony said that I got the most out of was, he said something like “you know sometimes when you go to play something (live) and you think I hope this works out. Well, I decided I never wanted to be in that position. I always want to know that what I play is going to work and be what I want it to be”. That really focused a lot of my playing. As usual another great Q-Tip! Thanks
Yes that stuck with me too Frankie! Thanks as always for watching and commenting.
What a shame Mr Williams left us so soon. God only knows what he would be doing now. People say Tony played too loud. I sat right in front of that big yellow Gretch kit at the Vanguard once and i can tell you they are wrong. He played STRONG and confident. Big difference. It wasn't loud at all. Great lesson and insight once again Q. Thnx. 🥁
Boom Brad!!!
Even Ron Carter once told Tony he was playing too loud. Tony got pissed, walked away, and smoked a cigar.
Amen! Fortunately, the great Marvin Bugalu Smith taught me this in 1976, so I've had time to learn it... 😉 With my students, one thing I stress, so to get even doubles, is to play the roll in triplets (8-notes first, 16 etc. much later) with no accents. In this way, the triplet movement really makes you listen deeply to each stroke, and pay attention to the fluidity of the exchanges between the hands. Great lesson as usual, Q. Thank you! 🙏
Awesome Massimo!!
@@drumqtips hope we have a chance to meet someday. I'm sure we could have a great chat, and I surely would learn a few things from you. Take care!
Another great lesson Q. I joke with my students that they often turn their drum lesson into flying lesson because they let go of the sticks and make little wings with the back three fingers. I really appreciate your shout out to DCI. The precision they employ in their playing is completely applicable to any style of music. BTW, I think SCV got robbed with their 5th place finish this year, as their show was quite spectacular.
They absolutely got robbed!! I told Paul (Rennick). He agreed. Lol! Thanks for your words Ray👊🏾
This is amazing. Last night I was spinning Miles Davis’s Sorcerer CD and there’s a cut called “Vonetta” in which Tony Williams plays rolls and buzz rolls throughout the entire song that sound absolutely symphonic in there precise execution. He truly was a master.
Oh yeah! That’s a great track and a good example of his beautiful rolls.
Q that was an excellent lesson. I saw Tony Williams years ago. He started his solo with double strokes. They were clean. He even used different stick heights. I was amazed at his double strokes being clean. Seeing him started me playing drums again.
Right on Gerardi!
There's no better way to start a class than starting with HISTORY. Very good video mr. Quincy. Thanks a lot and greetings from the Canary islands
History is the best! Thanks for watching👊🏾
teachers like you Quincy make me proud of drum community, I mean look at this lesson, the qaulity, everything. it's invaluable
It's been already 3 months since I've been applying this lesson. Honestly game changer. And I got rid of pain in my wrists . Thank you very much 🙏
Awesome!
I feel incredible relief and liberation after seeing this. I had a devil of a time trying to master a controlled bounce, especially on my left, but I kept at it because most YT drummers say that's the way to achieve speed, "taking advantage of the rebound." Maybe there's an element of that in what you teach, but I'm so glad to just hold the damned stick again.
I'm all about controlling each stroke like it's a single stroke but there are different schools of thoughts and we all have to figure out which school works best for us. Glad my "school" works with you:)
You are so helpful! Thank you,thank you,thank you!!!
Greatings from Karlsruhe Germany
You are so welcome my man Mike!
At 54, I finally decided to get more nuanced and appreciate the instrument more. I regret not doing it earlier in life. So naturally I’ve seen many many videos on the double stroke. And in most cases, the push/pull comes up and fingers get used at higher speeds just to facilitate the 2nd bounce. Correct me if I’m wrong, but what I’m seeing here is the advocation on no finger pull…at all..for the rebounding? Thank you for the video and I’m just trying to learn an old dog new tricks here. tyvm✌🏻
No push pull. Just wrists. It’s a bit more challenging but will make your doubles much more even and clearer. Have fun!
@@drumqtips Very very interesting. Thx for the reply. I’ll give it some time and see how it feels.
I'm a passionate jazz music lover Bop Big Bands singers love your Drumming Maestro De Maestros
Great lesson, especially when you discussed the mechanics- what to do with your hands to achieve even rolls. Everyone says to work on the 2nd strike but they don’t say how. You did! Concentrating on how to do it with my hands made a difference in one practice session! I’m not done yet but this is making a difference.
I’m a new drummer and this video was an absolute game changer for me. I cannot tell you how helpful this was. The finger this was ruining my playing. Thank you so much for this.
Glad it helped so much my man!
I was taught to practice accenting second note of each double stroke, this really helps
I was lucky enough to have taken a private lesson with Tony at his loft in Harlem right around the time Million Dollar Legs came out. In fact, when i finally made to him (trains, subways etc as I lived in NJ) he had just received his first box of albums! He was a bit preoccupied. His loft had a pad set and his world famous yellow Gretch kit! After some conversation and phones calls he had to take, he finally asked me to play! I was around 19 - 20 at the time and had “prepared” a solo I was going to play for him! Lol. I nervously started to walk to the drums when he said… “no, no, the pads …”. Well I was immediately deflated lol but I went to the pads and “diddled” around (no pun intended). After a few minutes, his first piece of advice and main take away of the lesson was “play every stroke”! And then he proceeded to show me exactly what you’re showing everybody right now and at the time I was a little upset because the lesson was expensive and I didn’t really feel like I needed to see Tony Williams to learn how to hold the sticks. I kind of looked at him a little perplexed and I sure I said some thing but I don’t remember what it was but he says to me, “what do you expect me to show you all my licks? “ Lol. I mean this was THE Tony Williams who to this day is still my favorite drummer of all time so that’s what I left with and as it turns out looking back all these years it’s probably the most effective piece of advice as far as technique goes that I ever got from anyone!
Love this!!! What a great story and an amazing opportunity to learn directly from a genius!! Thank you so much for sharing 🙏🏾
@@drumqtips thanks !!!! And must say I love your channel and your drumming!!! It was amazing … there’s more… the lesson cost like 125 I think which back around 1980ish was a lot of money . I was actually 23 or so and playing in a full time cover rock band at the time but I was a jazz jazz fusion lover. WRVR was THE jazz station in nyc! Anyway since I left Tony’s with “just” what I thought was a basic lesson on holding the sticks, I decided I couldn’t afford that kind of $! For that so I didn’t call back. A few weeks later Tony called ME!! Man I was lame and told him I had to fix my car blah blah totally having no clue as to how valuable that lesson turned out to be! I went on to study with the great Barry Altshul (sam rivers. Chick C and also Horacee Arnold (tales of an exonerated flea!) I’ve always been an over qualified rocker. Lol!! Creativity is always my most important reason for making music although we can’t always be in those type of situations. Thanks for appreciating the memory!!
I gotta admit, Q, I saw this video of Tony's explanation many years ago and was secretly annoyed that he considered my technique at the time "willy nilly", then I worked on his technique, and realized Tony's technique made it so that muscle memory took over as opposed to reliance on bounce, which is the absolute core of drumming! Blessings bro, great video✌🏼
Glad you came around my friend:) TW was “onto something,” eh? 🤣🤣
One of the best videos for learning clean doubles.
DOUBLE STROKE ROLL, PHRASED TWO WAYS. 1 RRLL RRLL 2 RRLLR RLLR . HI HAT. ON QUARTERS , EACH CAN BE DONE LEFTY.
You are the perfect teacher: the most complicate fill became easy!
Glad this helped Mario!!
God Bless You Quincy. Love your Drumming and Beutifull Persona you Rone Great Great Maestro De Maestros Bendisiones Para usted Familia. Carmelo papote Rios Arecibo Puerto Rico and Jersey
First time hearing the Tony Williams info about generating the strokes from the back fingers. Know what I'll be working on the rest of the year, lol!
‘That helicopter sound’ There’s a clue right there, thanks MrQ. The DSR is something I’ve struggled with for the last ten months I’ve been learning this gorgeous instrument. The high flying bounce approach has never worked for me. If I may say here, the Ralph Rolle/DrumDog video was a great help and so is this. Big time, thank you ✌️🌻🇦🇺
Much respect Markie👊🏾
When you finally turned on the snare to demonstrate crispiness. Yesssss! 💪🏼😃🥁
Yessss!! THAT’S when you can really hear difference. You’re right. Thanks for watching!
@@drumqtips in some ways you remind me of my first drum teacher, Tim Kennedy (RIP) who delivered his lessons with a smile but he also took no nonsense if I didn’t practice. I feel there is a joy to your playing and there is a joy to your instruction because fundamentally there is a sense of joy in your being so thank you for allowing that to always filter through. 🥁✨
Thank you good sir!! Tony, Bu, and Philly in there...and YOU!
I appreciate that my man! Love all them cats for sure.
Thanks so much for the lessons! You’re the only guy inspiring me right now. I’m older and rebuilding from a multitude of injuries, I find my muscles cramping when I attempt this method I’ve heard taught by Tony. Is this normal, can this technique cause damage? Honestly, I feel like it’s working muscles that have never been touched before and that makes me believe I need to build them. Just don’t want to go down the path of destruction in trying to get better…or even back to even.
My little finger always wandered off, I've trained it now and the difference is notable, great stuff sgain Quincy, love that Williams clip😊
Be careful of wandering little fingers🤣🤣
Ok, now I am born in another era and in another country. But I did learn how to play the drums. One of my old drum teachers used to tell me "Break up some drum rolls a day, and you´ll keep the doctor away". Well, he did not actually say that and it was in another language. It is the meaning of it though. Practice your drum rolls. Every. Day.
Yeah, I was a rock´n roll kid so I played rock´n roll. It took me a while to realize that this drum roll thing was good for my general playing. It is so boring, but it works. If I would have followed my teachers advice, I would be a professional now. I am not.
But I still sometimes break down a drum roll and enjoy hearing my neighbors commenting on "it sounded like rain yesterday, but it was sunny?" :D
well discussed... im excited to practice smart then , thank you sir Quincy for this
Right on Markie Mark👊🏾
Thank you so much for this video man. I have searched quite a bit for good advice on how to clean these up, but your video actually articulated it in a way that could be easily followed.
Back when I was in band in high school, we used to call the grip you refer to as the one we should not use, as the "teacup grip", for obvious reasons...
I've always known it was wrong, but no one has ever been able to articulate how it make it work with the correct grip. Thanks again.
Glad I could help my man!
Clear, accessible, and inspiring. So glad I found your channel!
Thanks for watching Matt and I’m so glad you found this lesson helpful!
Incredible videos. Thank you for all the incredible tips. Great job!
My pleasure!
Truly awesome. Thanks for all you do!
Thanks Q! Really eye opening lesson for me. Best Regards Ralf
My pleasure!
I’ve heard the drag also called a “ruff” when it’s buzzed.
Some of the best lessons on here! Thanks again for your time in making these for us
Can you make a video explaining Tony Williams right hand ride cymbal technique when he plays 5 notes in a row... That "signature" Tony Williams ride cymbal pattern he uses to turn the time around. That'd be sweet. 👍🥁
I’ve addressed it in a couple videos but we’ll see. Thanks!
Honestly a great crash course on hand technique.
Learning to keep all my fingers on the stick and using the natural motions of the wrist and fingers together have helped me improve my doubles. Playing displaced doubles has helped a lot as well. I do an exercise where I play doubles for a measure and then a measure of displaced doubles and that exercise has helped me get more even consistent doubles.
Awesome Cora!
Another top class, helpful lesson…thank you!
that mic is cool cause you can talk while playing🤯
Firm & relaxed, great advice.
Boom👊🏾
Great lessons, Thx for posting and sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Haha arigato gozaiumuuuuusu to YOU @quincy Davis for dropping the best knowledge 🙌
You’re very welcome Mikey!!
Ur words are pure gold!!!
Thanks Rado!
Your playing sounds great and your explanations are easy to understand. Even when you're demonstrating "Sloppy Joe" you sound great (which is probably not what you want to hear).
Anyway, great videos. I'm inspired 🙂
Beautiful!!
I'm ready!
Let’s goooooooooo💪🏾
Great explanation on double stroke. I like when you said breathing plays important keeping you relax. Tony Williams was a monster in his doubles. On point with another lesson Quincy
Thanks Vic!
I've watched those Tony Williams clinic videos a lot. I believe he begins his performance by playing a - very clean and powerful - double stroke roll.
An exercise I found useful for cleaning up my double strokes is pulling one hand away while playing a roll and making sure the double on each hand sounds really clean. The practice pad I use has a foam cover you can lay over the pad's surface which makes you work a little more for the bounce. It ensures I am working the entirety of each hand to get those doubles.
Great takes John!
Great stuff.. I love the 5 stroke roll! I didn't realise it had helped my double stroke until u mentioned it!
Brilliant. Thankyou
Great lesson! Aritogozaimashita
Thanks man !
Excellent advice 🔥🔥🔥🙌🙌🙌
Thanks Mikey!
Fantastic!I am working with a high school drum line and I am going to share this with them.
Boom Chuck!
“Sloppy joe” 😂 Yes, firm but relaxed - I teach the same concept with the bow hold for better bow control. Go SCV! Thought they deserved a higher placement.
I agree Ms. Mac:) SCV slips have at least gotten too 3.
Awesome lesson! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
always great stuff in your videos
I appreciate that Doug!
Nicely broken down! I loved the drum set application. Thanks!
Right on John D!
That was a great lesson, Quincy! I fulcrum on my middle fingers and have been hitting that barrier to the articulation in my band sessions. I'll work this pinky/whole-hand thing into my practice tonight. Also, it is a joy to hear your playing on these videos and it communicates well with the worded concepts. 🥁
Thank you!! Thanks for your words.
Crisp clean & even love it❤️👌🥁
Thank you Quincy. That was very helpful.
Glad to hear Ms. Rita:)
Thanks for another wonderful lesson, Q! Always a highlight of my week.
You’re welcome my man Tom!
Sooo fresh n so clean cleeeeean
Arigatou gozaimasu, Q!
You are welcome!
Q. I am reAlly confused! Your saying that you play your double stroke roll articulating each stroke? There has got to be some degree of bounce to get up to speed
Dam this really helps thank u
Premise: you are an awesome teacher and I enjoy your lessons as much as I enjoy listening to your playing. I absolutely get what you are trying to convey with this lessons but I just don’t understand how you can be so fast without leveraging the stick bounce
I appreciate that! Lots of practice…and maybe some luck🤣🤣
GREAT LESSON
I HAVE MY STUDENTS PRACTICE THE GORILLA STROKE ON A PILLOW. THEN MOVE TO THE PRACTICE PAD SO THEY ARE FORCED TO AVOID DEPENDING ON THE BOUNCE. THEN TO THE DRUM, AND THEN WITH OTHER PLAYERS IN FRONT OF THE MIRROR. THIS TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND PRACTICE BUT THE RESULTS ARE AWESOME. YOUR CHOPS WILL SOUND VERY POWERFUL AND YOUR DRUMLINE WILL SOUND SO MUCH CLEANER AND STRONGER.
clean as a string bean
thank you
You're welcome Nick!
イェー！ありがとうございます♪♪
Fantastic insight into doubles! Hopefully my doubles ain't that sloppy haha.
If you’re thinking about them, your dubs are prolly cool Joey😉.
Ned from España here to say ....Yes indeed Dr. QD ! Great advice, lesson, breakdown and application. Thank you also to the late great Tony Williams. Sad that someone hasn't remastered that video yet. Once you can get the doubles even and strong it does so much for everything else. I like doing that exercise accenting the second beat because that forces me to engage my hands more and concentrate on evenness and control. Still working on it too because a well played roll is a sweet sound. Awesome Mr Davis. Question did you say that Philly Joe 4 stroke ruff is RLLR ? Thanks again
Yup. That’s it on the Philly ruff!
Great video as usual Quincy! Would you consider posting a gig vlog on youtube?
Yes! Been trying to record my gigs more lately. I’ll post something soon.
Yes! Lately I’ve been trying find the right balance of firmness and looseness with the grip.. too firm and you lose fluidity, too loose and you lose clarity/definition.
Exactly Brian!
ありがとうございます。
こちらこそ！
youre a fantastic teacher. much respect from scotland. best wishes. can you help me with my flam double drag? I wanna play it like Larry mullen during the chorus of Pride (in the name of love).
Thanks for the kind words. With every rudiment, you want to learn, just start slow, exaggerating accents, and slowly build the temple up. Cheers!
Hi, would you mind making a video about this Tony approach to singles? Because I think that he is the only drummer in history that has used that kind of thing, all the other drummers are using fingers and rebound, in my opinion.
I’ll keep that in mind Nic👍🏾
Hey Hey! The business! Best I have found. Dear Quincy, How long each day should I practice the double stroke roll?
Thanks for the kind compliment:) The key with getting better and improving at something is consistency doing it EVERYDAY. So it's less about how long per day and it's more about how many weeks in row should you do it. I would say, do everyday for no longer than 20 minutes. You will notice a big improvement. Daily practice is the key though. Cheers
@@drumqtipsMost days doing the roll now. I am building up 5bpm every couple of days. Thanks.
Q, when we speed up we have to eventually hit that transition point from wrist (control) strokes to bounce, right? So when you speed up around 7:45 you're switching to bounce right (eg one wrist stroke for two notes) right? But just a more controlled bounce correct? Might it come down to three approaches: wrist, fingers, bounce - and practicing all three (eg just wrist, just fingers, just bounce) and then being able to combine them and use more or less of each at different tempos/applications? Thanks as always!
My question exactly!
In this video, I never switch to fingers. If I’m using them, it’s very little. I should have demonstrated playing that speed on my leg to show that I was still not relying on bounce. But it’s ok to use fingers a bit as long as you’re controlling each bounce and it sounds even. Thanks!
I think it's about how your specific body mechanics work.
A lot of drummers find transitioning to fingers gets them the fast doubles they're after and some drummers have more success playing from the wrist.
I naturally play from the wrist and was making ok progress with my doubles until I started looking for more detailed instructions, all of which said to use rebound and play from my fingers.... after 6 months of frustration and zero progress I went back to playing from my wrists and started progressing again.
There's this misconception that you *have* to use rebound a loose grip and fingers to get fast doubles and it's just not true.... it's one way to get there but it's not the only way.
If you're having trouble with your doubles try playing out of the back of your hand more and accenting the second note and see if that gets you where you want to go.
That is also what I don't understand from this video lesson (by the way thank you very much for your time and your love for sharing). My understanding is that fast tempos require to move from 2 wrist movements with 1 stroke each to 1 wrist movement while two strokes. I don't really undersatnd how it is possible from the mechanical stand point and I would love to get more insights based on TW subject. May be another video 🙂 ?
@@HappyDaddy3x I don't mean to butt in but think of it as the two stroke Moeller.
Instead of using your fingers to generate the second note you use the motion of your wrist as your arm comes back up to generate it. If you cock your wrist downwards as your arm is coming back up you're still getting the 2 notes from one motion deal.
The end goal is to have a roll that sounds like "tearing a window shade". Once you have it you'll have it forever. In the Jurrasic period I learned the double stroke roll fast first- its far better to start slow. Embrace the open double stroke roll. It is just as effective as a single if you own it.
I like that analogy Gene!
Great video. Doubles have felt so off for me for ages, hopefully I can get them nice and smooth with this advice (: . Also the Japanese at 13:34 caught me off guard, is there any particular reason you said that? Currently studying abroad in Japan and got started on drums(as opposed to a practice pad) thanks to my uni lol haha
Good luck with those doubles! They can be tricky for sure but just make sure you start slow using your wrists. I speak Japanese so sometimes I speak Japanese in my videos for fun. lol
@@drumqtips ちゃんと練習すれば良くになるはずだから頑張ります。ありがとございます！
Thx Q ! It does make a difference. Could you elaborate on this “end fingers” grip ? Watched this Tony video a while ago, and worked on his idea of using muscles to lift the stick, letting gravitation pulling it down. How far are you into this concept ? I am a bit confused, just when do you use which grip … when to use back fingers to propel the stick ?
Don’t overthink it. Just keep your pinky on the stick and use your wrist to move the stick. As it gets faster, you can incorporate more fingers but strive to keep your wrist engage no matter how fast you need to play.
@@drumqtips we pianist, like to overthink :)
@@drumqtips we pianist, like to overthink :)
Nice ….
Nice lesson! What kind of Vic Firth sticks are those?
Check the description.
@@drumqtips What model of Vic Firth sticks?
that pinky grip is recommended by Moeller himself in his book
Interesting idea, but isn’t the Moeller method, the push pull, faster and smoother?
Hey Michael. I think the push pull is different technique than the Moehller technique.
You and Jens Larson, Sean Daniel Should Jam
10:05
Would practicing with brushes help? (no rebound)
Ab-so-lute-ly!!! Thnx Richie!
Thanks I hear you but I still can't stay even my strokes are so choppy
You can do it Terrell. Make sure to keep your hands relaxed even though you want optimum control.
EvenDiddle
That's right!
@@drumqtipsthanks for the Drum roll lesson, i was able to get my first "ok" doublestrokeroll out of it. I was one of the hard hitters that learned to play in the 90s with an hard focus on hard music, i never practized rudiments or drum rolling since now, kinda.
I'm a little confused. If I slow the video down at 7:35 to 0.25x speed, it looks very much like the back fingers are slapping the stick down for the second stroke? Maybe the tiniest hint of wrist. Its controlled sure; the back 2 fingers are not losing contract with the stick, but I thought that was normal for a double stroke roll? It doesn't look to me like the back 2 fingers are literally wrapped around holding the sticks as such, just controlling it with the fulcrum remaining at the front of the hand. Hence my confusion ;-)
Looks can be deceiving…I guess🤣🤣. There’s definitely some give with the back fingers but the stroke is being generated from the wrist more. Thanks for watching Mr. Alien drummer 👽
@@drumqtips Haha! Often I think the muppet part is more appropriate for me 😅. Thanks for the quick reply, I'll keep working on it 🙂
When the tempo gets higher, don't you need to use the rebound at some point? Not everything can be played only using wrists...
Yes at some point but I never used fingers in this video, even at fast speeds. Practice on a no-rebound surface.
3:30 -- This is what always has confused me about the 'Tony Williams thing'; Tony Williams (excerpt) shows that the pinky and ring fingers are gripping the stick. In looking at your demonstration, while gripping with your pinky/ring it looks like you are still using the index and thumb -- this confuses me. If gripping the stick from pinky/ring, and still using index/thumb - where is the fulcrum ? Why does this confuse me so much? when I've tried this (gripping from pinky/ring), I usually have my index and thumb basically hanging around the stick, not even gripping it really. (it always feels very wrong to me)
Fulcrum is between pointer and thumb. I’m not “gripping” the stick with my pinky, just making sure it’s rapped around the stick in a relaxed way. Hope that helps!
deym that double stroke is precise than doin bounce strokes
Blink twice if someone’s forcing you to do the “are you ready?” bit in every video 😃
Ha! I stole it from another RUclipsr. Lol
Smoking baby.....
Thanks Roberto🙏🏾
So the question begs an answer: in what type of situation can we employ the bounce?
When the tempo is too fast to just use your wrists.