IKR. it’s as if 400,000 people were dedicated to work their ass off to make stuff happen. So much more was going on in the background that we could never see.
On a side note to this. Back in the late 60's or early 70s a company called Airfix produced 1:72nd scale toy astronauts. Included in the box they came in were 2 lunar rovers and two different proposed flying machines. One was similar to what you showed, it had a stand up astronaut controlling a one person flying device with handle bars! The other device two astronauts were seated side by side and it had four landing legs similar to the LM. And yes...I still have most of this box of goodies sitting on one of my bookshelves! lol
A great video. Fun fact - the Airfix 1:76 scale Apollo Astronauts set (rereleased last year I think and still available) contains a two man seated rocket transport and two standing one man rocket platforms. Also has two Lunar Rovers.
The only real way to find the way back to the LM was to follow their own footprints. Jet packs would have worked. But they really could have got lost. Spooky
Yeah, and with the rovers they could just follow their path out for their path home. The wheels made their own bread-crumb trail, something a flying platform wouldn't do. I wonder how much this path finding "feature" featured in the decision to go with the rover instead of the flying platforms.
There was also a possibility the astronauts could have run into a harder lunar surface that did not leave prints, so there would be no prints to follow.
That would have been a minimal problem with the Boeing proposal. At the maximum height of 300 feet the line of sight would have allowed them to go a considerable distance from the LM. Haven't worked out the geometry, but it should be a useful extension of the exploration radius.
As always, very educational. I am getting too old and have no memory of the North American Rockwell proposal. It was amazing how fast Boeing turned out the rover. Your couch is always fascinating. I smell it in every video: cigarette smoke combined with dust, strong sunlight and impatience of my youth waiting for my mother to finish coffee with her friends while they have yet another smoke. Your content is fascinating, high quality and engaging. It would be no matter what topic; be it space from the 60's and 70's or women contribution to science or insects or global warming or early 1400 medical healing. Your writing, organization and story telling make the time well spent.
Thank you for being here for all of us and please ignore the jerks you have given me so much information about something I'm so interested in thank you again you are a wonder
You can see one of the Apollo prototype flying platforms in the museum at Alabama's Space Camp, along with conceptual and prototype/training versions of the Lunar Rover. When I visited 3 years ago, one of the Rover engineers was a docent there, explaining that display.
Thank you Amy. I’m a boomer and thought I knew a lot about Apollo, but oddly was unaware of the jet packs! 😱 I always enjoy your very well produced videos and selfishly wish you’d post more frequently. 😉 Give Pete a pet for me! 👍👍👍 ~ John
Found my way here from your collaboration video with Tom Scott from a while back. Thank you for doing what you do! I now have a new favorite channel! 😃
In hindsight, the Rover was a much better idea than the Jetpacks. Large enough for two people, independently rechargable, leaves very prominent wheel tracks to follow back to the LM. NO propellant to leak or explode. The list is extensive.
Fifty years later, the silver-zinc batteries (used to run the rover and to power the LEM), remain the most reliable and energy-dense source of energy for critical missions. Their cost was (still is) exorbitant, but it didn't matter for Apollo.
Thank you for this interesting insight into some of the gadgets in the Apollo program. As I remember, there was a similar gadget called LESS, Lunar Escape system or something. An emergency system to get back into orbit in case the LM should fail lifting off from the lunar surface. Could you share some of your excellent knowledge about this gadget?
Interesting choice to remake this episode. This episode was good for sure, and added a little extra detail, but I didn't feel like the old one was particularly bad in comparison. Either way, free comment for the algorithm
Excellent video! I really do love the early space program, but I'm glad they didn't go this route. Due to the amount of mechanical and quality issues... the jet pack could have been disastrous. And hearing about fueling them with unused hypergolic fuel was particularly scary.
Nice video. There's a cool anime airing right now called Irina: The Vampire Cosmonaut. Sounds ridiculous, I know but the show has been quite historically faithful in its alternate universe take on the Soviet race to get a man into space. I think it's worth doing a video on.
AMY - The astronauts should not have gotten lost because their footprints are going to stay in the lunar dust for millenniums. They could always follow then back. By the way, LOVE your videos. The APOLLO EA still lives!! D. Laird - NJ
Thanks, Ami - interesting as always. I imagine a senior NASA person looking at those plans for lunar 'jet packs' and thinking, "hmm, what could possibly go wrong..."!
Those flying machines look cool but I can imagine they were pretty risky compared to a rover. Plus a rover seems like it's a roomier platform and can carry more equipment. I never get tired of watching those films of the rovers. The utter coolness of driving a car on another planet miles away from your spacecraft.
You can never drive further away than you can walk back. Like if you get stuck. The lunar regolith is real bad stuff. It is extremely abrasive, sticks to everything, clogs all seals, gets into the astronauts lungs. It can be mitigated but not eliminated
I was generally aware of efforts to create an escape system in the event of the LM ascent stage failing, but rocket packs (in essence) in place of the rover, I had not heard of. Cool! I also learned a minor aside here: Northa American Aviation merged with Rockwell in 1967. Amy mentioned “North American Rockwell,” but I was thinking that merger was considerably later - after the initial design or the Shuttle, but I was in fact mistaken. Also cool!
Love these videos you do! Always fascinating!! You raise a great point in the video. Was the only way the astronauts could find their way back to the LEM was via the tracks they left on the surface?
In an alternate timeline, there was no lunar module. There was the command module with these fliers on the outside of it. Buzz and Neil space walked outside the command module, strapped into their fliers, and descended down to the lunar surface. They could land, get down off the flier, do an experiment, take photos, collect samples, then get back on and fly to another location. When it was time to sleep or unload their moon rocks, they flew the same fliers back up to orbit and got back into the command module. Back and forth they go, from orbit to the surface and back, with jetpacks instead of one trip in a lunar module, until it was time to come home.
The same thought crossed my mind when she said the Bell unit could reach orbit. That would have been so cool! But of course it wouldn't contain enough propellant to descend and ascend - it would need its own descent module.
When you say "rescue vehicle" are you taking about astronauts riding them TO ORBIT?? I've done that kind of shenanigans in KSP, but that doesn't make it a good idea!
Interesting as always. Was reading about this just recently. But it was very technical, so it is nice to get a clear explanation and fill in the blanks. Thanks again.
I’ve always wondered what a sustainable lunar strategy would’ve looked like. For example, had some key cost-saving decisions been made earlier on like reusing parts of the Saturn V
It should have been difficult to get lost as all footprints should eventually lead back home to the lunar lander. That’s unless they could have floated over the surface and not leave footprints. That wasn’t so as they didn’t have the jet packs. 😊
I recently read a snippet regarding Apollo 16 when John Young attempted a few Moon Olympics events including a long jump that almost landed him on his back, causing him to fear for his life for a moment. My question is what would have happened if he really had bought the farm? Would Charlie Duke have wrestled the body back into the LM for burial or would it have been better to leave the body there? Could one man fly the LM or were both astronauts needed to operate it?
Awesome info! I’m just realizing how far we could have gotten toward a permanent, or semi-permanent moon base in the 70s, if we’d been able to keep throwing billions at it.
I can see easily being lost as soon as you loose sight of the ship. I would think they could have done something simple like a radio ping. Maybe it wasn't so simple, small, and low power back then. All it would have to do is send out a ping now and then and the crew would have a little receiver in their suits that could say "signal strongest that direction ===>".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that handling hypergolic fuels was EXCEEDINGLY dangerous and poisonous. Yeah, the astronauts would be protected in their suits if something went wrong with transferring the fuel from the descent module to the platform, but then they'd have to go into the LM and take those suits off and get that stuff on them/in them. It seems extremely unlikely that there could be a simple (i.e. lightweight) way to siphon off the fuel.
I can't imagine getting lost to the point you couldn't even backtrack your own footprints. But perhaps the surface has some non-moondusty areas that don't show tracks well. Curious, though: does the Moon have a magnetic field or one strong enough for a common compass to work on?
I'm fairly certain our magnetic field is because of our molten core, which the moon doesn't have. But the footprints should be visible, actually the jetpack would make you more lost since you wouldn't have any tracks to follow haha
@@c.l.7525 Not sure how nylon fishing line would last in the temperature extremes and vacuum, but yes - some sort of line would be an option. Or: dropping a marker periodically. Very cool.
Amy - on Apollos 15 thru 17, was the Lunar Module always kept in visual contact? It seems the terrain at those landing location was very hilly, and the the astronauts could easily loose a visual lock on the LM.
Ooh, I can imagine how scary it would be to get lost on the moon and not be able to find your way back to the lunar module. I guess it doesn't take long before you're over the horizon. I suppose one day we will have lunar GPS satellites. I guess in theory, with an accurate clock it would be possible to navigate the moon guided by the stars. It's not like they're ever obscured by clouds.
I miss these videos. You did a wonderful job on them and the content is great.
Cannot believe how much I STIIL am learning about the Apollo missions on this channel. Thanks again Amy. ;)
IKR. it’s as if 400,000 people were dedicated to work their ass off to make stuff happen. So much more was going on in the background that we could never see.
Yes, it is amazing.
On a side note to this. Back in the late 60's or early 70s a company called Airfix produced 1:72nd scale toy astronauts. Included in the box they came in were 2 lunar rovers and two different proposed flying machines. One was similar to what you showed, it had a stand up astronaut controlling a one person flying device with handle bars! The other device two astronauts were seated side by side and it had four landing legs similar to the LM. And yes...I still have most of this box of goodies sitting on one of my bookshelves! lol
i remember older Lego sets also still having a similar design in their lunar space sets.)
Must be very Valuable now...
I have four boxes of Airfix Astronauts I bought 25 years ago from Squadron/Signal.
Gee, I thought I bought every Apollo model out there during my youth. This one somehow eluded my notice. Thanks for the info.
A great video. Fun fact - the Airfix 1:76 scale Apollo Astronauts set (rereleased last year I think and still available) contains a two man seated rocket transport and two standing one man rocket platforms. Also has two Lunar Rovers.
The only real way to find the way back to the LM was to follow their own footprints.
Jet packs would have worked.
But they really could have got lost.
Spooky
Yeah, and with the rovers they could just follow their path out for their path home. The wheels made their own bread-crumb trail, something a flying platform wouldn't do. I wonder how much this path finding "feature" featured in the decision to go with the rover instead of the flying platforms.
There was also a possibility the astronauts could have run into a harder lunar surface that did not leave prints, so there would be no prints to follow.
That would have been a minimal problem with the Boeing proposal. At the maximum height of 300 feet the line of sight would have allowed them to go a considerable distance from the LM. Haven't worked out the geometry, but it should be a useful extension of the exploration radius.
I feel that SO MUCH alt history is just out there. So many subtle "what ifs" from your videos! Thank you!
Yey more vintage space.
That's why I've subscribed and "rung that bell!"
I saw you and Professor Dave on The Science Channel "Strange Evidence" last night Amy, VERY COOL!! 👍
As always, very educational. I am getting too old and have no memory of the North American Rockwell proposal. It was amazing how fast Boeing turned out the rover. Your couch is always fascinating. I smell it in every video: cigarette smoke combined with dust, strong sunlight and impatience of my youth waiting for my mother to finish coffee with her friends while they have yet another smoke. Your content is fascinating, high quality and engaging. It would be no matter what topic; be it space from the 60's and 70's or women contribution to science or insects or global warming or early 1400 medical healing. Your writing, organization and story telling make the time well spent.
Wonderful content, educated host, passion with material. Amy brings it every time. Thank you as always.
I would think there was one way to find your way back to the LEM. The astronaut's own foot prints on the surface of the moon.
Thanks, I feared you had stopped posting!
Awesome channel. Thanks Amy.
Thank you for being here for all of us and please ignore the jerks you have given me so much information about something I'm so interested in thank you again you are a wonder
I feel like they could have followed their foot prints if they got lost
You can see one of the Apollo prototype flying platforms in the museum at Alabama's Space Camp, along with conceptual and prototype/training versions of the Lunar Rover. When I visited 3 years ago, one of the Rover engineers was a docent there, explaining that display.
I'm half way through Fighting for space and have breaking the chains of gravity as backup. I Need more!
Thank you Amy. I’m a boomer and thought I knew a lot about Apollo, but oddly was unaware of the jet packs! 😱 I always enjoy your very well produced videos and selfishly wish you’d post more frequently. 😉 Give Pete a pet for me! 👍👍👍 ~ John
Found my way here from your collaboration video with Tom Scott from a while back. Thank you for doing what you do! I now have a new favorite channel! 😃
In hindsight, the Rover was a much better idea than the Jetpacks. Large enough for two people, independently rechargable, leaves very prominent wheel tracks to follow back to the LM. NO propellant to leak or explode. The list is extensive.
Fifty years later, the silver-zinc batteries (used to run the rover and to power the LEM), remain the most reliable and energy-dense source of energy for critical missions. Their cost was (still is) exorbitant, but it didn't matter for Apollo.
Such a joy to watch your video's. Thanks for sharing this with us that are your fans. Outstanding job young lady. Well done.
Awesome! Interesting as always Ma’am! Thanks for your hard work.
Great video! Loved the music. Kinda Edward Scissor Handsesque.
Thank you for this interesting insight into some of the gadgets in the Apollo program. As I remember, there was a similar gadget called LESS, Lunar Escape system or something. An emergency system to get back into orbit in case the LM should fail lifting off from the lunar surface. Could you share some of your excellent knowledge about this gadget?
always smile at these videos, so many details we all missed
Great video! My grandfather worked on the rocket engines for Bell's Lunar Flying Vehicle. Bummer it never made it up to the moon.
Always a thumbs up for Amy
Love Amy! She always explains stuff great!
Cool Amy! I always learn something new watching you videos.
Interesting choice to remake this episode. This episode was good for sure, and added a little extra detail, but I didn't feel like the old one was particularly bad in comparison.
Either way, free comment for the algorithm
Excellent video! I really do love the early space program, but I'm glad they didn't go this route. Due to the amount of mechanical and quality issues... the jet pack could have been disastrous. And hearing about fueling them with unused hypergolic fuel was particularly scary.
Nice video. There's a cool anime airing right now called Irina: The Vampire Cosmonaut. Sounds ridiculous, I know but the show has been quite historically faithful in its alternate universe take on the Soviet race to get a man into space. I think it's worth doing a video on.
AMY - The astronauts should not have gotten lost because their footprints are going to stay in the lunar dust for millenniums. They could always follow then back.
By the way, LOVE your videos. The APOLLO EA still lives!!
D. Laird - NJ
Thanks for all you contribute! I think Gemini is my favorite :)
Thanks, Ami - interesting as always. I imagine a senior NASA person looking at those plans for lunar 'jet packs' and thinking, "hmm, what could possibly go wrong..."!
Great video, reminds of "The Six Million Dollar Man" TV Series when he had one back in the 1970's.
Love the cobweb dress. Thanks for the video.
I have an Haynes service manual for the Apollo Lunar Rover; but I hadn't heard of the proposed Jetpack.
Thank you for the enticing video...
Those flying machines look cool but I can imagine they were pretty risky compared to a rover. Plus a rover seems like it's a roomier platform and can carry more equipment. I never get tired of watching those films of the rovers. The utter coolness of driving a car on another planet miles away from your spacecraft.
You can never drive further away than you can walk back. Like if you get stuck. The lunar regolith is real bad stuff. It is extremely abrasive, sticks to everything, clogs all seals, gets into the astronauts lungs. It can be mitigated but not eliminated
Thanks Amy!
Welcome back Amy!
The Bell model looks much like a jet powered rollator walker. I'll try to get one for my granny 😉😂
Hi Amy. Thanks for yet another interesting video.
I was generally aware of efforts to create an escape system in the event of the LM ascent stage failing, but rocket packs (in essence) in place of the rover, I had not heard of. Cool!
I also learned a minor aside here: Northa American Aviation merged with Rockwell in 1967. Amy mentioned “North American Rockwell,” but I was thinking that merger was considerably later - after the initial design or the Shuttle, but I was in fact mistaken. Also cool!
Interesting as always Amy. Thank you
Never knew about this one, really cool! And absolutely no thanks, spending a bit of the day with this interesting stuff is never wasted.
Excellent watch as usual 👍😀
Thanks for all your hard work! Great content!!
Love these videos you do! Always fascinating!! You raise a great point in the video. Was the only way the astronauts could find their way back to the LEM was via the tracks they left on the surface?
Awesome episode!
3:40 This reminds me of the Wasp jetpack project from the 80s
Flying cars just can't get a break. Even on the "futuristic" moon. Geesh.
Can you please do a video on the M-113 armored personnel carriers used for emergency crew egress. Thank you, love your work.
Wow great video. I always wondered about the jet pack. Unfortunately the astronauts never found any green cheese.
I love your content Amy, always enjoyable. I really liked the music during the video, too. Thanks Amy.🙂🚀🌔
In an alternate timeline, there was no lunar module. There was the command module with these fliers on the outside of it. Buzz and Neil space walked outside the command module, strapped into their fliers, and descended down to the lunar surface. They could land, get down off the flier, do an experiment, take photos, collect samples, then get back on and fly to another location. When it was time to sleep or unload their moon rocks, they flew the same fliers back up to orbit and got back into the command module. Back and forth they go, from orbit to the surface and back, with jetpacks instead of one trip in a lunar module, until it was time to come home.
The same thought crossed my mind when she said the Bell unit could reach orbit. That would have been so cool! But of course it wouldn't contain enough propellant to descend and ascend - it would need its own descent module.
Amy do you have any interest in JPL? Thanks for video, never knew of this aspect of lunar exploration.
Über interesting as always!
On a more personal note:
You look extra stunning in that beautiful dress!
Love learning about this! Feels like the engineers were playing real life Kerbal Lol
When you say "rescue vehicle" are you taking about astronauts riding them TO ORBIT?? I've done that kind of shenanigans in KSP, but that doesn't make it a good idea!
Mattel got there first in the mid 60’s with Major Matt Mason and his jet sled. I had one as a kid.
Thanks Amy very informative 👍
Interesting as always. Was reading about this just recently. But it was very technical, so it is nice to get a clear explanation and fill in the blanks. Thanks again.
First IMHO will be something like what was used to go from Clovis to TMA-1 in the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey.
Thank you, Amy. Interesting shows.
I love all these dives into odd and unused ideas.
Amy, you have a great channel.
Great vid!! Well done as usual.
If they got lost, surely they could've just followed their footprints back to the lunar module?
I’ve always wondered what a sustainable lunar strategy would’ve looked like. For example, had some key cost-saving decisions been made earlier on like reusing parts of the Saturn V
It should have been difficult to get lost as all footprints should eventually lead back home to the lunar lander. That’s unless they could have floated over the surface and not leave footprints. That wasn’t so as they didn’t have the jet packs. 😊
I recently read a snippet regarding Apollo 16 when John Young attempted a few Moon Olympics events including a long jump that almost landed him on his back, causing him to fear for his life for a moment. My question is what would have happened if he really had bought the farm? Would Charlie Duke have wrestled the body back into the LM for burial or would it have been better to leave the body there? Could one man fly the LM or were both astronauts needed to operate it?
Hey Amy, can you please do a video on how space engineers used slide rules?
So, who was it that won out in getting these accessories cancelled? Was it Financing or was it Risk Management?
Awesome info! I’m just realizing how far we could have gotten toward a permanent, or semi-permanent moon base in the 70s, if we’d been able to keep throwing billions at it.
I can see easily being lost as soon as you loose sight of the ship. I would think they could have done something simple like a radio ping. Maybe it wasn't so simple, small, and low power back then. All it would have to do is send out a ping now and then and the crew would have a little receiver in their suits that could say "signal strongest that direction ===>".
Maybe follow your own tracks back...? 🤔
There are so many things they dreamed up for Apollo that I wish had actually been made.
How did you gathered so much of information?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that handling hypergolic fuels was EXCEEDINGLY dangerous and poisonous. Yeah, the astronauts would be protected in their suits if something went wrong with transferring the fuel from the descent module to the platform, but then they'd have to go into the LM and take those suits off and get that stuff on them/in them. It seems extremely unlikely that there could be a simple (i.e. lightweight) way to siphon off the fuel.
Do you think theyll be part of the Artemis expedition?
How about some other things from the mid 20th century Amy? Ocean liners, prop airliners, long distance luxury trains etc?
I had no idea the space race involved long distance luxury trains. Learn something new every day!
It'll be interesting to see what they would design today.
It is curious that you did a presentation 4 years ago on the exact same topic.
1:40. Nothing to tell them what direction to go? How about their footprints/tire tracks? Or landmarks? Or the stars to give them direction?
There was nothing to tell them how to get back to the lunar lander.... except their own footprints!
love from kolkata,india
I can't imagine getting lost to the point you couldn't even backtrack your own footprints. But perhaps the surface has some non-moondusty areas that don't show tracks well. Curious, though: does the Moon have a magnetic field or one strong enough for a common compass to work on?
Lol, I just said the same thing before seeing your comment!
I'm fairly certain our magnetic field is because of our molten core, which the moon doesn't have. But the footprints should be visible, actually the jetpack would make you more lost since you wouldn't have any tracks to follow haha
No magnetic field. They might have been able to use radio triangulation instead, laying down beacons or something, but that's more payload.
@@Insightfill how about a spool of high-test fishing line?
@@c.l.7525 Not sure how nylon fishing line would last in the temperature extremes and vacuum, but yes - some sort of line would be an option. Or: dropping a marker periodically. Very cool.
Lady Amy it's Ok...We still have SciFi Art and Movies that feature Jet Pack Fun!~"On To The Stars!"🚀🌕
Havent you made a video about this before, I have the impression you did..
I always thought this lunar jet pack idea was silly and dangerous beyond belief - a stupid idea for the first Apollo missions
Wasn´t it so, that the three-day maximum allotment for astronaut consumables was an attribute of the _later_ block 2 LMs?
Following their boot prints should of lead back to the lander.
Amy - on Apollos 15 thru 17, was the Lunar Module always kept in visual contact? It seems the terrain at those landing location was very hilly, and the the astronauts could easily loose a visual lock on the LM.
They needed just to follow their footsteps to find the lunar rover again ;)
@@guyh3403 Of course... Yikes! I should have though a little harder before asking the questions. Thanks for the correction Guy H!
Pretty sure the rover returned on a different track than its outbound track. I am also curious how they navigated.
With Artemis i hope we find new and old amazing ideas and make them happen.
I had a moon jet pack in the 1960s. It was for my Major Matt Mason action figures but…that counts, right?
Didn't one of the lunar missions carry some kind of wheelbarrow to allow the astronauts to carry more instruments and samples?
The line of sight is only 2.6 km on the moon. So even driving a rover, leaving tracks, to that is over 20km of not seeing your lander.
A note:
the light in the background was a bit too harsh and the one lighting you too dim
Ooh, I can imagine how scary it would be to get lost on the moon and not be able to find your way back to the lunar module. I guess it doesn't take long before you're over the horizon. I suppose one day we will have lunar GPS satellites. I guess in theory, with an accurate clock it would be possible to navigate the moon guided by the stars. It's not like they're ever obscured by clouds.
I wonder if for Artemis they could use the existing design for the lunar rover with upgraded batteries and digital maps.