Geared violin peg installation -- Knilling Perfection
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- This is a demonstration of how to install Knilling Perfection violin pegs.
www.knilling.com/
Perfection Pegs are internal planetary geared violin (and viola and cello) pegs, which give much finer tuning than you can generally manage with friction pages, and additionally don't slip or stick or wear against the peg holes. I've installed several sets, and have been very happy with the results. It really is a huge improvement over traditional friction pegs.
Knilling recommends professional installation. It IS a more involved process than just changing the strings, but if you're reasonably handy and careful, it's not too difficult to do yourself. And this will show you how.
@ john cadd, I worked in the Knilling shop from 96 to 2009. You should not leave out the glue. We actually did have some returned to us for pegs unscrewing out for lack of glue.Before the pegs had threads they were bare shaft and before that, they had metal collars.You did need glue for those. But I have worked with shops that do not like glue. I prefer to use it. you don't need much. We used Gorilla glue on the Knilling instruments. You only need a dab. He pretty much did this the way the directions were written. However the one thing we did do in the shop that was different is, Sanding the peg end. We used 220 and 600 and then buffed with a piece of leather for the glass shine ( shop standards). You can also get these pegs in multiple sizes for over sized holes. Another tip that we did since I had to install thousands of these. I would fit the first peg. Then I would mark the reamer or wrap tape around the reamer where it meets the peg box for a stop. That was a time saver for us to do the other 3 without installing each one multiple times to bury the threads. Another tip since the perfection pegs are a 4 to 1 ratio. We used an electric screwdriver with a Daddario string winder. Saves a lot of time if you have a shop and will be doing a lot of these. I kept the same method for my shop. Knilling also made an instruction video. I'm not sure if they still send these out since I left the company in 2009. Just a cool little thing we did for a couple of years is that we had the peg head company who invented these come to our shop and show us how to put them together . So we had a lathe and this device that the inventor Chuck Herrin made. We would actually produce our own pegs in the shop. I do agree with the padding on the table. We had our benches covered with material. In my own shop, I did the same thing. I just prefer it over a towel or a bare table.
If the pegs screw in in the direction of loosening they can't possibly unscrew unless you put the on the wrong side. The tension of the string would tighten the peg in, not unscrew it.
+Phillip Morrison that is the idea. But what happens is the wood opens. The pegs spin and come out. I've installed thousands of these over the years. They have to be installed tightly. And yes, don't forget the glue.
@@stlguitargoddess eventually over time, if for whatever reason I need to get the pegs out even if they had glue on, can they be removed? And reused on another cello?
The pegs are marked on the ends. Bass and Treble sides of the peg box. "B" for the G & D strings and "T" for the A & E stings.
The very first geared tuners for Violin were invented in 1860 & these tuners pointed down from the Head stock so that they were out of the way. Tommy Jarrell popularized the use of Geared tuners on a Violin because they made tuning the instrument simpler.
Thank you for your video! I don't know about other people but you are pretty professional explaining the process. As for the glue perhaps is just business. If you have more than one violin and decide to use the pegs on another, you may need to buy a new set.
I noticed the pegs are marked with a “t” (treble) or a “b” (bass) on the end, so you can be sure you’re putting them on the correct side.
The reamer from the hardware store won't necessarily have the standard taper used on violin pegs. Then you are in trouble.
@solracselbor Oh, I'm not a luthier. I'm not even a violinist; I'm a computer programmer. I just take lessons as a hobby, and prefer not spending many minutes and much invective fighting friction pegs to get in tune :)
Yes, it's purely ornamental. You'll often see it called a ebony or ebonized C-ring. That bottom bit of the neck there is actually part of the violin's back, not the neck itself. It's not terribly new; several Strads are similarly accented for instance.
I've installed these in one of my fiddles and it was very easy. Take your time and be careful if you need to saw the peg shorter. I didn't use any glue and it worked out just fine. I am going to install them on my other fiddles. You do not need fine tuners on your strings once these are in place but I do keep one on the E string.
I'd recommend removing that E String fine tuners so you can use just the geared tuners.
@@RockStarOscarStern634 i saw 1 "luthier" (really just another of those shop hobbyists/semi-pros) keep all 4 fine tuners! LOL but he had an interesting reason: he splits tuning half and half on the fine tuners and the fine pegs in order to prevent the tightening from 1 end pulling the bridge over in that direction. IMO he made his pegs pointless and failed to improve his sound by removing the weights of his fine tuners.
But if u have 0 fine tuners, all will immediately know what's up, so I'd prolly want to cut off the screw portion of 1 fine tuner from the rest and just screwing that on the E portion just for show. Looks like a normal violin and it adds even less weight than the lightest of Hill's tuners.
@@androidkenobi Leaving the fine tuners off removes the most weight
@UCNN4EekLWgGdnTYBBgyTSIQ
Tommy Jarrell popularized the use of machine heads on a Fiddle so much that using machine heads on a Violin, Viola, or Cello has gone back up can you believe it? The Tommy Jarrell style tuning machines for Violin look pretty rad & they're a little bit lighter weight than Friction pegs cause they're a tad bit smaller. The lighter weight makes holding the instrument simpler.
Do you prefer these over the wittner pegs? If yes why? if you can say.
So two must be right handed threads and two left handed threads to turn toward the body. So likely they are marked when they arrive indicating what side they feed into. Also they come in different diameters so you need to measure your existing peg hole diameter.
Don't forget the addition of more pencil marks for lube in the bridge grooves and nut.
Oh, also since this looks like a nice violin, to avoid that blown fray out the other end when you were reaming, I've seen some luthiers lightly dab some sort of alcohol solution on the holes to gently soften the varnish
Knilling recommends glue, eh? Well guess that means I'm going Wittner
It would be nice to see close up pictures of the pegs and the reamer. My initial reaction is this is not for me. I could change my mind, we'll see.
Hello! Thanks for posting this video. I just got my Knillings pegs for my viola, but I noticed something different from what you`ve shown. The threads disappear completely when I screw the body of the peg in, so the peg's body is NOT flush with the internal part of the peg box - it seems to be a problem since the string when it wraps around the peg , it snugs in that little space , inside the pegbox hole. I'm afraid the string might break. I did not used the reamer yet, bcause the threads are in
Really appreciated this video and found the little things you did to do the task very helpful and can be used when installing traditional pegs. Thanks for this posting.
Excellent presentation!
I have wittner fine-tune pegs on my instrument. They are much easier to install no screw or glue just push'em in. They are very precise with a 1:8.5 ratio and very light... I love them.
Great demonstration. Thank you
@emdeeeff I think I may follow your steps and get some of these pegs. I too only play as a hobby, and tunning is such a pain.
Thanks for the info, the video is really informative!
@carvindc400 If the pegs are completely threaded in, it'll be hard to ream it out to put them deeper, because the taper of the peg outside of the thread is more abrupt than the normal 30:1 (because the gears are inside there). If you opened it enough to get significantly in, the threads wouldn't engage the wood solidly.
If you have enough of the rotating section to get at least maybe 4 turns of the string on, I'd try cutting the string shorter so you didn't need so much wrapped around...
I just receied my Knilling pegs. They are marked L and R on the ends. However if it put the R in the E or A side, the threads will screw in the direction of tightening the strings. I understand they are supposed to screw into the peg box in the direction of loosening the strings. What gives?
Actually, the "L" is "T" for Treble and the "R" is a "B" for Bass side. :-)
could you please show me a video while you tuning the E String with your Knilling Perfection? That will be great! Thanks a lot! BTW whats the weight of one peg?
very helpful, thanks
Which reamer does this need, a 1:25 or a 1:30?
@carvindc400 But remember, I'm not any sort of authority here. Always be careful making permanent alterations to your instrument, like taking away wood with a reamer. I'd be very,very hesitant to ream the pegholes any farther than needed to get the threads completely in.
If there's so little of the rotating section completely inside the pegbox that you can't wrap the string a few times once the threads are all in, contact Knilling or ask a luthier before getting too creative.
Absolutely fantastic video! I think it would be awesome if you recorded yourself repairing violins (if you do that), not as a DIY video but more as an informative video.
I have a question that's a bit off topic: when you turned that violin around on the back I saw a black outline on the lower part of the neck. Lately I've been seeing a number of violins with that black outline. Is that a stylistic thing, or is there more to it?
Thanks for this!
I was thinking about installing these on a cello. When you are inserting the peg/thread and checking the fitting, do you use any inward pressure or just let the threaded peg screw itself into the hole?
wilsocn I use a bit of inward pressure. It's not like screwing into a tapped hole, or even a wood screw cutting mating threads. They're more like friction ridges that bite to keep it from twisting, than threads that pull it in.
What do you suggest I do? Thank you!
You need to find the pegs that match them.
What’s the material of those pegs? Do they make them for Flamenco guitars as well?
do you use it also on the E String? BTW Lauffer peg has 1:19.
@iutube789 It takes a bit more winding because of the gearing, but aside from that...
The internal gearing SLIPS?!
Mine seem like they are slipping from the inside but I will try out the glue method and make sure it's not from the inside... will update soon...
Mine seem like they are slipping from the inside too. Did you ever figure out what the problem was?@@Brittany-Powers
@@violavicki seems like the slipping stops after a while just make sure to push in I guess when your done tuning... Seems kinda like a normal peg in that way... Came across a few other problems now though like the tail piece slipping fixed that... Then the sound post bending cuz I was tuning it back up a bit fast I guess but will get that replaced soon I guess lol I just wanna practice... Haha
I wish the table had some padding .It feels bad to hear the violin rattling around. The video needs some editing to keep strictly on topic. The reamer should only be the correct type. All that needs editing .It`s very messy. I am not anti gears though. You need a clear close up to show the screw threads against the pegbox. Lose the bit about glue. That will freak out most people.
GREAT!!
yeesh... good thing EVS offers to install them for you
how does a little "girl" cry?
She cries just like the 7ft 10in, 450lb lineman who forgot to wear his cup!
are these reamers the same as the ones on Amazon:
www.amazon.com/Woodstock-D4140-Repairmans-Taper-Reamer/dp/B005W17DFC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424050504&sr=8-1&keywords=reamer
www.amazon.com/Violin-Viola-Peg-Hole-Reamer/dp/B01GRFMMSO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1470271315&sr=8-2&keywords=violin+reamer
Put guitar tuning machines on a violin. Please do a tutorial like that...
+Francois O'Kennedy the scroll gets in the way
They're heavy. Put an ounce of metal at the pegbox end and you'll tire your neck holding the fiddle on your shoulder.
try ukulele pegs much better idea and way cheaper
That was my first thought, but then my fiddle would not fit in its case. Also as others have said, it makes it heavier.
Francois O'Kennedy,
I put Schaller Guitar tuners on my 1735 Jesus de Salo. When the scrolls were in the way, I simply sawed them off on the band saw. The mass removed by the scroll elimination was more than made up for by all of the metal hardware. I may have diminished its value, but it sure is easy to tune!