Thanks for the help. I’ve been so sold on the belt driven Taiwanese version for so long but now taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture. I plan to mill tool steel and also small stainless parts. Thanks for the helpful comparison! Not too many people have both at the same time. 😂
@@RodlessReel Yes I've had the "luxury" of having both at the same time lol. The 727 has much more rigidity than the 728 so it's probably the better move. It's easy to switch the gear knobs to each of the 6 different speed ranges as you need them. If you're gonna mill hardened & stainless steel you'd probably regret having the 728.
I have a PM-727 and I live it. I did my own stepper Z power lift and a power drawbar. I haven't had any issues with steel or any other metal. It's a nice machine. Definitely get the table power drive.
I had a pm 25 mill , then I bought a pm 727 omg it's far far better and the 5" precision vise fits perfect, I removed , cut the back lip of the 5" vise with my band saw ! And I have full vise motion! On the table if you get the 727 definitely get the 5" vise , modify it by removing the useless trim rib lip on the back of the vise and you will be much happier than the 4" vise !
Thanks for the video. If you still have both mills it would be very nice to know some metrology differences between the two. PM says the 728 is higher precision but they don't give tolerances when asked. Perpendicularity of x,y,z axis and spindle runout would be good to know.
I don't have the 728 anymore but that brings up another difference between the machines. The column on the 728 bolts to the base from underneath so that you have to have it hanging over the edge of something to access the bolts if you need to tram the head. I had to do this to my 728, the Y-axis was off by about 5 thousands of an inch. The 727V has the bolts accessible from the top, making it easier to tram the head. Tomorrow I'm gonna upload another video about the PM-727V.
@@mitchell5828 right, however you want to frame it I had to shim underneath the front of the column to get it square. I had to do this on both of the machines as they were not perfectly square from the factory. Edit: I just uploaded a new video on the PM-727V
Thanks. I have it on a 20amp breaker but it would probably run just fine on a 15amp breaker. It's never tripped the breaker. It doesn't seem to draw much power but you could find all the electrical specs in the user manual I'm sure.
Matt, I've had a PM 727V on order for nearly a year now. For the same reasons as you I wanted the beefier machine. Yes there are some features of the 728 I like, lube system etc, but I like the geared head. It's also supposed to have variable speed as well. PM keep giving me various reasons why the 727 hasn't been delivered and I'm beginning to think I'm being messed around. PM have a good track record for service so I don't understand that they would risk that reputation. At the beginning of the month the answer was they don't have a shipping date yet. I've ordered mine with 3 channel DRO installed in China. Maybe the chip shortage has something to do with the delay. How long did you wait for yours? Regards from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦👍
Hey Ron, I ordered my 727V in Jan 2021 and received it in March 2021. Seems like I got it before supply chains really snagged. As for Precision Matthews customer support I've had a good experiences with them. I got mine without the DRO so it was obviously a shorter lead time. Hope you get your machine soon ✌
@@grippimatt thanks Matt. That would have been about the time I was procrastinating between the two machines. PM did tell me that they had a couple of 727s available but as I wanted the factory installed DRO I'd have to wait. They offered to refund my deposit and if I wanted to change to a different machine but non of the others offered the choices I was looking for. On your control panel I see a variable control. Is that speed?. If so how effective is the mill at lower speeds torque wise. Does the motor labour when not at max?. Have you tried power tapping at all?.
@@ronwilken5219 I've never tried power tapping on it but it does really well at lower RPMs. I've used big annular cutters and big drill bits with no issues. The variable speed is within the speed range of the six gears so as long as you have it on a low enough gear it won't stall on you
Matt - this was a really well done comparison! Can you do me a favour? On the 727V can you measure with the table full right from center line to the tip of the hand wheel? Basically how much sticks out past the mill on the left hand side with the table full right. Also - subbed :)
Thanks! Just measured this and if I understand you correctly, with the table as far to the right as it can go, the left hand wheel (excluding the handle) sticks out 1.125" to the left of the cast iron base. Let me know if this is what you're looking for.
@@grippimatt wasn't exactly the measurement I was thinking (was looking for from center line to left hand wheel with table at full right) but this works too since PM lists the base width. So really with table full right, based on your measurements there's barely any overhang to left. I have a small work space like yours (check our some of my vids if you want to see)...so was trying to figure out if I swapped out where my drill press is for this mill, if I could not have it stick out too far if I just kept the table to the right when not in use. Thanks a bunch!
I enjoyed your comparison. Well done, short and to the point! I have been thinking about the PM25MV vs the 727V but your video has convinced the small extra $ is well worth it. This will be my first mill (I'm a retired self taught mechanic/welder/fabricator with zero milling experience). I'm tight for space - with the 727V can I get rid of my mid-size drill press? Thanks - - Craig
Hey Craig, if you have a benchtop drill press then I'd get rid of it once you get your benchtop mill. Most of the time I use my PM727V as a drill press anyway. With a keyless chuck it's pretty quick to operate. I'm pressed for space like you but if I had a shop or more room I'd want a dedicated drill press so I can leave my milling machine set up for milling. The main difference between the two operations is the head height. When you have a drill chuck on the machine with a drill bit you need to raise the head 4 to 8 inches to clear your work piece. Not a huge inconvenience, especially with the Power Lift but ideally I'd like to have a dedicated drill press.
It'll be worth getting the PM727V. I considered getting the PM25 but it seemed too small and underpowered for my needs. More weight equals more rigidity and rigidity is everything.
hi, nice video thanks for such great comparison, quick question, do you see the need to mount this on a cast base they supply? or a sturdy table top bolt it down would be good enough and rigid enough? i noticed either one of your machine are mounted on their base, both sitting on a table . any input is apprecaited.
Hi, I think you're referring to the stand they sell with each machine but It's not very heavy duty from what I can tell. It's all made of sheet metal that fastens together from what I can tell so to answer your question- no, you don't need their stand for either machine. Any heavy duty alternative is gonna be rigid enough but I wouldn't recommend leaving it on caster wheels because the whole stand will shake when you're milling even if the wheels lock in place. You'll need something with leveling feet.
If the pm-728v-t was under powered, did you consider buying a bigger motor for it? Maybe a 3ph with a VFD. It would have been cheaper than having to buy the pm-727v.
Thanks, the Power Lift is made by Priest Tools. Go to their website: priesttools.com and send them an email or call about the PM-727V because that specific power lift isn't listed on their website. I talked to the owner and he was able to get me a kit for one, I know he's working on getting the 727 Power Lift available on his website.
The 728 might be made in Taiwan and all but this doesn't justify the steep pricetag if is too weak to drill a 1/2 hole in steel. They should at least sell it with the bigger motor.
@@JohnnyRabbitQC to be fair, most of time time it will drill a 1/2" hole in steel just fine but in some situations it would stall. I agree though - it's underpowered for its price tag. I think a lot of 728 owners convert it to CNC for machining aluminum and it probably works well for that.
It's held up great, I've been using it for over 2 years now. I mostly use it to bore holes in stainless steel flat bar with annular cutters and it works like a charm. I haven't had any issues with it.
@@peterantley it will handle that. I've faced stainless without any speedbumps. It has as much rigidity as you can ask for in a benchtop milling machine.
@@grippimatt any chance i could make a donation for a video on the subject? Im a greenhorn. Inherited the family south bend lathe and i want to add a mill. Im on the fence. My local mentor swears by a super rigid American machine but im not sure it makes sense for me. I feel like starting out im doing small parts and would rather spend my time making chips instead of doing repairs.
@@peterantley I appreciate the offer but I think the determining factor for you is how heavy of milling operations you're planning on doing. A benchtop milling machine is really intended for light to medium duty milling operations. At 470 pounds, the 727V can handle some decent cuts but at the end of the day it's still a benchtop machine. I should add that I'm no expert. I use my machine to run a small business and only occasionally use it for precision work. Most of the time I use it as an expensive drill press. My grandpa was a tool & die maker and I've taken machining courses at my local community college in addition to my background as a welder/fabricator. For all the machining work I've needed done as a professional fabricator, the 727V has handled all of it. Another thing to consider is what your shop space is like. I chose a benchtop model because I'm operating out of a standard home garage so space is limited and I don't have room for a knee mill. If you have space for a full size knee mill I'd recommend that but most of us don't. Enjoy the family lathe - that sounds like a nice machine.
Thanks for the help. I’ve been so sold on the belt driven Taiwanese version for so long but now taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture. I plan to mill tool steel and also small stainless parts. Thanks for the helpful comparison! Not too many people have both at the same time. 😂
@@RodlessReel Yes I've had the "luxury" of having both at the same time lol. The 727 has much more rigidity than the 728 so it's probably the better move. It's easy to switch the gear knobs to each of the 6 different speed ranges as you need them. If you're gonna mill hardened & stainless steel you'd probably regret having the 728.
I have a PM-727 and I live it. I did my own stepper Z power lift and a power drawbar. I haven't had any issues with steel or any other metal. It's a nice machine. Definitely get the table power drive.
I had a pm 25 mill , then I bought a pm 727 omg it's far far better and the 5" precision vise fits perfect, I removed , cut the back lip of the 5" vise with my band saw ! And I have full vise motion! On the table if you get the 727 definitely get the 5" vise , modify it by removing the useless trim rib lip on the back of the vise and you will be much happier than the 4" vise !
THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR FINALLY ADDING A 727V TO RUclips!
thanks. I’ve settled on a vertical mill from P-M and have been looking at the PM-727V. Big help.
I'm glad it helped you out 👍
Great comparison, thank you. You've helped me make up my mind on which hobby mill to purchase.
Glad I could help!
Well Matt, I think you helped me make my choice, @ a $1000 less expensive makes it all the better deal.
So I'm going to get a cut of that $1,000 you saved, right? Just kidding.. glad the video helped you out! You'll be happy with the 727V
on the contrary Matt, my wife thinks you helped me spend $2900...lol
@@bruceang82 lol I forgot about the wife acceptance factor
Just found your channel and subscribed. Very nice mill
Thanks for the video. If you still have both mills it would be very nice to know some metrology differences between the two. PM says the 728 is higher precision but they don't give tolerances when asked. Perpendicularity of x,y,z axis and spindle runout would be good to know.
I don't have the 728 anymore but that brings up another difference between the machines. The column on the 728 bolts to the base from underneath so that you have to have it hanging over the edge of something to access the bolts if you need to tram the head. I had to do this to my 728, the Y-axis was off by about 5 thousands of an inch. The 727V has the bolts accessible from the top, making it easier to tram the head. Tomorrow I'm gonna upload another video about the PM-727V.
@@grippimatt did you have to shim the column mount at the base to correct that .005"?
Edit: I miss read, thought that was z axis off .005
@@mitchell5828 right, however you want to frame it I had to shim underneath the front of the column to get it square. I had to do this on both of the machines as they were not perfectly square from the factory.
Edit: I just uploaded a new video on the PM-727V
Thank you for this video!
Great video. Thanks
thanks, very helpful!
wish I would have seen this before I bought mine
Thank you for the comparison. Why not the pm30 with the 2hp
I think it runs on 220v and I want a 110v machine.
Hey, great video. Are using 15 amp circuits? Any tripping breakers on the 727? Thanks!
Thanks. I have it on a 20amp breaker but it would probably run just fine on a 15amp breaker. It's never tripped the breaker. It doesn't seem to draw much power but you could find all the electrical specs in the user manual I'm sure.
@@grippimatt ok, thanks for the info!
Matt, I've had a PM 727V on order for nearly a year now. For the same reasons as you I wanted the beefier machine. Yes there are some features of the 728 I like, lube system etc, but I like the geared head. It's also supposed to have variable speed as well.
PM keep giving me various reasons why the 727 hasn't been delivered and I'm beginning to think I'm being messed around. PM have a good track record for service so I don't understand that they would risk that reputation. At the beginning of the month the answer was they don't have a shipping date yet.
I've ordered mine with 3 channel DRO installed in China. Maybe the chip shortage has something to do with the delay. How long did you wait for yours?
Regards from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦👍
Hey Ron, I ordered my 727V in Jan 2021 and received it in March 2021. Seems like I got it before supply chains really snagged. As for Precision Matthews customer support I've had a good experiences with them. I got mine without the DRO so it was obviously a shorter lead time. Hope you get your machine soon ✌
@@grippimatt thanks Matt. That would have been about the time I was procrastinating between the two machines. PM did tell me that they had a couple of 727s available but as I wanted the factory installed DRO I'd have to wait. They offered to refund my deposit and if I wanted to change to a different machine but non of the others offered the choices I was looking for.
On your control panel I see a variable control. Is that speed?. If so how effective is the mill at lower speeds torque wise. Does the motor labour when not at max?.
Have you tried power tapping at all?.
@@ronwilken5219 I've never tried power tapping on it but it does really well at lower RPMs. I've used big annular cutters and big drill bits with no issues. The variable speed is within the speed range of the six gears so as long as you have it on a low enough gear it won't stall on you
@@grippimatt Thanks Matt. Hopefully I'll get some good news soon. In the meantime I'll watch for your videos to pass my time. Stay well.
Matt - this was a really well done comparison! Can you do me a favour? On the 727V can you measure with the table full right from center line to the tip of the hand wheel? Basically how much sticks out past the mill on the left hand side with the table full right.
Also - subbed :)
Thanks! Just measured this and if I understand you correctly, with the table as far to the right as it can go, the left hand wheel (excluding the handle) sticks out 1.125" to the left of the cast iron base. Let me know if this is what you're looking for.
@@grippimatt wasn't exactly the measurement I was thinking (was looking for from center line to left hand wheel with table at full right) but this works too since PM lists the base width. So really with table full right, based on your measurements there's barely any overhang to left.
I have a small work space like yours (check our some of my vids if you want to see)...so was trying to figure out if I swapped out where my drill press is for this mill, if I could not have it stick out too far if I just kept the table to the right when not in use.
Thanks a bunch!
@@SomeGuysGarage No problem, I'll check out your work shop 👍
I enjoyed your comparison. Well done, short and to the point! I have been thinking about the PM25MV vs the 727V but your video has convinced the small extra $ is well worth it. This will be my first mill (I'm a retired self taught mechanic/welder/fabricator with zero milling experience). I'm tight for space - with the 727V can I get rid of my mid-size drill press?
Thanks - - Craig
Hey Craig, if you have a benchtop drill press then I'd get rid of it once you get your benchtop mill. Most of the time I use my PM727V as a drill press anyway. With a keyless chuck it's pretty quick to operate. I'm pressed for space like you but if I had a shop or more room I'd want a dedicated drill press so I can leave my milling machine set up for milling. The main difference between the two operations is the head height. When you have a drill chuck on the machine with a drill bit you need to raise the head 4 to 8 inches to clear your work piece. Not a huge inconvenience, especially with the Power Lift but ideally I'd like to have a dedicated drill press.
It'll be worth getting the PM727V. I considered getting the PM25 but it seemed too small and underpowered for my needs. More weight equals more rigidity and rigidity is everything.
@@grippimatt Thanks very much - I appreciate your comments and the quick response (not sure if a shop is ever big enough)
hi, nice video thanks for such great comparison, quick question, do you see the need to mount this on a cast base they supply? or a sturdy table top bolt it down would be good enough and rigid enough? i noticed either one of your machine are mounted on their base, both sitting on a table . any input is apprecaited.
Hi, I think you're referring to the stand they sell with each machine but It's not very heavy duty from what I can tell. It's all made of sheet metal that fastens together from what I can tell so to answer your question- no, you don't need their stand for either machine. Any heavy duty alternative is gonna be rigid enough but I wouldn't recommend leaving it on caster wheels because the whole stand will shake when you're milling even if the wheels lock in place. You'll need something with leveling feet.
Hi again Matt - was wondering what is the McMater Carr part number for the collapsing handles? Thanks, Craig
62705K46
Thanks for that quick comparison. Did you have the belt on the low speed high torque setting on the 728 when it was stalling?
No problem. The belt was set for the lower speed range when it was stalling. It was my mistake to buy the 728 as a work horse.
If the pm-728v-t was under powered, did you consider buying a bigger motor for it? Maybe a 3ph with a VFD. It would have been cheaper than having to buy the pm-727v.
I considered it but I like the features of the 727 and it's still a more rigid machine.
Great video! Can you tell me the specific name or part number of those collapsible handles? I'd love to get some but I can't find them on mcmaster
Thanks! Here's the part number: 62705K46
@@grippimatt awesome! Thank you
I also have the PM-727V. What is the make and model of the power lift? Great video, Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, the Power Lift is made by Priest Tools. Go to their website: priesttools.com and send them an email or call about the PM-727V because that specific power lift isn't listed on their website. I talked to the owner and he was able to get me a kit for one, I know he's working on getting the 727 Power Lift available on his website.
Thanks Matt. I didn’t see it listed on their website, thought maybe it was the same as the PM-728VT.
The 728 might be made in Taiwan and all but this doesn't justify the steep pricetag if is too weak to drill a 1/2 hole in steel. They should at least sell it with the bigger motor.
@@JohnnyRabbitQC to be fair, most of time time it will drill a 1/2" hole in steel just fine but in some situations it would stall. I agree though - it's underpowered for its price tag. I think a lot of 728 owners convert it to CNC for machining aluminum and it probably works well for that.
Do you have them on a 15a or 20a service?
hows it holding up?
It's held up great, I've been using it for over 2 years now. I mostly use it to bore holes in stainless steel flat bar with annular cutters and it works like a charm. I haven't had any issues with it.
how does it do with face milling/facing operations on various types of steel?
@@peterantley it will handle that. I've faced stainless without any speedbumps. It has as much rigidity as you can ask for in a benchtop milling machine.
@@grippimatt any chance i could make a donation for a video on the subject? Im a greenhorn. Inherited the family south bend lathe and i want to add a mill. Im on the fence. My local mentor swears by a super rigid American machine but im not sure it makes sense for me. I feel like starting out im doing small parts and would rather spend my time making chips instead of doing repairs.
@@peterantley I appreciate the offer but I think the determining factor for you is how heavy of milling operations you're planning on doing. A benchtop milling machine is really intended for light to medium duty milling operations. At 470 pounds, the 727V can handle some decent cuts but at the end of the day it's still a benchtop machine.
I should add that I'm no expert. I use my machine to run a small business and only occasionally use it for precision work. Most of the time I use it as an expensive drill press. My grandpa was a tool & die maker and I've taken machining courses at my local community college in addition to my background as a welder/fabricator. For all the machining work I've needed done as a professional fabricator, the 727V has handled all of it.
Another thing to consider is what your shop space is like. I chose a benchtop model because I'm operating out of a standard home garage so space is limited and I don't have room for a knee mill. If you have space for a full size knee mill I'd recommend that but most of us don't. Enjoy the family lathe - that sounds like a nice machine.
I was under the Impression that all PM Mills were made in Taiwan?
This is not the case
Thanks
The models with a "T" are Taiwan, the rest are China.
Dude you need a full knee mill.
Ain't nobody got room for that.. I can do everything I need to do with this benchtop mill.
how disappointing you can even use a 1/2" drlll on a $3000 machine
Wanna sell me the VT?