@@HyperMoeMan Funny enough Benioff and Weiss creating and original stories didnt have to happen. Thomas & Friends with S3 back in 1991 proved it is possible to do original stories that are good enough in a tv adaptation of a book series.
And as soon as this is a smash hit, Amazon will be making diverse movies about Vikings. There are so many diverse people in Norse mythology you would hardly believe it...
I was shooked as a kid when that Ent elder said that line , it really conveyed how he was beyond anger against that bastard Saruman (my feelings exactly when I saw the trailer for this new Lord of the suffering : Power of wokeness)
When I hear that phrase from someone working on expanding someone else's work, I hear "We're just gonna substitute our far inferior fan fiction for everything people loved about the original work. In fact, you're going to wonder why we even spent the money to buy the original IP."
only the black tongue would be adequate to express such outrage but none dare use it for it's foulness is terrible to hear.... Galdalf: I speak black tongue... please oh grey one don't...oh gods the sound
Why we loved the Jackson films and hate this rubbish: Amazon: “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” Peter Jackson: "We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies.
@@Patrick-qed Yes, an excellent choice to expand an existing character and give weight to the romance between her and Aragorn. However, he also included whatever the female elf character was in the Hobbit, which was one of many missteps in that rendition.
The Wokes always made everything about race, gender, and sexual orientations. They put the "message" above the content of the art. There has been too much of these. They literally use same methods for every franchises they can buy. No originality, no soul, just corrupting any established work-of-art for quick cash-grabbing and political correctness. People all around the world are already sick and tired of these disgusting wokeness narratives. The solution is simple. REJECT this wokeness political brainwashing. REFUSE to pay and watch. Make them taste their own poison and make them pay good fortune for it.
Amazon: “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” Sure, so why not drop a couple of Teslas in it too?
Yeah, they don't understand that they have to prove themselves. They think we should like their work because we like Tolkein's, which is just ridiculous.
Seeing as how many people are repeating the same fake quote and are making claims that are supported by nothing in Tolkien's lore - I have to disagree. People don't care what Tolkien actually wrote. They don't even know what he wrote. They care about what they _think_ they know about Tolkien's writing.
The funny thing is they've pissed off everyone. People have been typing evil can only destroy in several languages from all over the globe. It's beautiful
Hell, even on left-leaning social media where you'd think they'd praise it to high heaven, I've seen people beyond furious at how this dumpster fire doesn't follow the lore, respect the characters, or anything. They stole from a dragon's hoard, and now are going to get it.
@@MALICEM12 or maybe it’s not overused at all, and needs to be repeated until we stop with all this deconstruction nonsense. Here’s another quote to that effect: “He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.”
2 года назад+298
Who are these people who think we can't be inspired by or identify with characters that don't look exactly like us? As a mexican woman, I felt perfectly fine watching Jackson's trilogy and it never bothered me that they were all white. They were supposed to be white. If I want to see myself then I pick up a mexican book or watch a mexican movie, or bask at the glory of a new mexican inspired anime. This is the work of a writer, not your playground for yelling virtue signaling. That's what has bothered me, always, about adaptations. For me, the words of the creator are paramount. If he says that this race is blue with white eyes, I sure as hell expect to see an actor spray painted blue. For me, the main virtue in stories are not analogies or moral compasses. It's escapism. The creation of new worlds.
I just want to chime in because I want people reading your comment to know that this person does not speak for all POC. I love the original LOTR but as an Indian woman I was extremely sad to see that the only brown representation in those movies be for the villainous clans of people that sided with Sauron. Better representation is 100% something middle earth could do with. Skin color doesn't affect plot unless it's a plot about skin color, which this universe is not.
@@user-yo5yr9yr2h it has been years since I read the Silmarillion so I could be mistaken @just some guy could correct me or tell this better (the lore is strong with this one) but if I remember correctly, these "Villainous clans" came from the East and the south. they are not wholly evil at least not from the start, Sauron spent a good part of the second age seducing and or conquering these people (after all Sauron was the great seducer) just like the Numenoreans some welcomed the evil some fought it. we know the Numenoreans traded with the peoples of Middle Earth and most certainly had dealings with these peoples. I just didn't want you to think Tolkien meant for these people to be evil to the core. the sad thing is, this would have been a perfect opportunity for Amazon to introduce literally boatloads of diverse woman and men, perhaps, escaping Sauron's influence? it would have been lore friendly and made sense. plus, then anyone complaining would actually likely be an "ist" of one form or another.
It's kind of narcissistic or even sociopathic for these people to say they can't sympathize/empathize with and relate to someone who isn't just like them. Plus if you swap around dynamics as we saw with the guy who did the Turning Red review, they're offended if someone doesn't identify with/relate to the things they like. I'm sure I'd be called a racist white person if I said I can't relate to/sympathize with a character of color.
That's legit. My thing is that Amazon changed core facts of this world, but could've introduced a new opportunities. Bring along the areas from which middle earth in cinematic has yet to see. Show how incredible those characters can be. We lond got new and staying true to the author's adaptation while adding with now I believe is the coolest way to continue LOTR!
The people that do that are the woke left, I don’t wanna get political but the woke people constantly say “black people cant stand up for themselves” or on your case a Mexican woman, then they say anyone who doesn’t think their way is racist, I’m not far right at all but I’ll never be woke left either ugh! Good for you for speaking up too
@@Сайтамен it just point out what, was it Elijah who said it; that Lord Of The Rings was the last big movie where the director and producer had full control over what they were creating. Ie you couldn't make a new LOTR today even if you wanted to, with how many hands there are in the production today.
Kinda hard to match the quality, when 1) he didn't want to direct The Hobbit trilogy in the first place, and 2) he was called in at the last second and 3) the studio stretched the amount of films from two to three. The Hobbit lacked many of the pre-production qualities that enabled LotR to become what it is. Yes, they were able to re-use some assets - but it's hardly the same thing. Do NOT blame it all on Jackson.
Tolkien may be gone but his words are as immortal as his story, “Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.”
But is it really evil or more total hubris? These people have openly stated that they like the world Tolkien created but that he couldn't write for sh**. They've almost literally stated "WE are going to write the stories Tolkien couldn't write."
_"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, we're trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."_ -Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
And that is why, even though the movies deviate from the books, they are so good. People who love Tolkien can tell that there was respect and love for the original work there. They know the beloved story is in good hands from the very beginning of Fellowship of the Ring.
@@tinamoul Jackson specifically said, “we weren’t going to put any of OUR OWN politics… into these movies.” He said nothing about Tolkien’s politics because it is Tolkien’s work. Of course his politics and biases are in it. They wanted to keep the spirit of the book in the movies and even the most hardcore book fans can admit that he did so successfully.
Yes, Peter Jackson did a very good job of honoring the original books and not putting in trendy personal politics, making characters "Gay", preaching about global warming etc. I have some differences with PJ interpretations - the extended version DVDs are better than the theatrical release which cut out the death of Sauraman. These movies were well cast especially Aragorn, Boromor, Gandalf and Sauraman.
"anything that doesn't stick to the original source material (because that would be incredibly hard with a story spanning thousands of years) is "evil" because reasons"
@@Matt-dl2iy People have given many many specific reasons including in this very video. Whether or not you want to acknowledge them is up to you but being willfully ignorant doesn't make your POV any more legitimate nor our POV any less. Straw-manning the issue just makes you look dumb and disingenuous and makes the rest of us more confident in our assertions
@@obinna1317 "straw manning the issue". There is no issue. The series isn't even out yet and people are calling it evil, lol. Don't you see how ironic this quote is? The showrunners are LITERALLY creating new elements (characters, conflicts, who knows?) and people are complaining about how it's not accurate to the source, yet use this dumb quote as if it's relevant at all.
@@Matt-dl2iy Again, a clear lack of nuanced understanding of the reason people are using the quote. Just remain confused. If you haven't worked it out by now, I don't think anyone can explain it to you. Good day.
_That's_ Galadriel?! Galadriel doesn't need armor. She doesn't need to prove anything and she sure as shit doesn't need a sword, ten million times weaker than she is! Galadriel is my favorite. An ethereal goddess who has knowledge and power unmatched by anyone. It's like weakening Superman just to make him "relatable." They're not relatable characters. They're characters who are admired. Characters we wish we were like. Not characters just as pitiful as we are.
I can understand you loving Galadriel, but compared to many characters in the Silmarillion, she is pretty weak, she is certainly not in any way a "goddess". There are is no shortage of actual goddesses in Tolkeins work :p
She was badass before even without being in the spotlight and forefront of the movies. Her echo was enough to give chills. Now they're going to make her boring. Wonderful. I hope they waste a lot of time and money
@@Duncangafney1 Tolkien himself stated that Feanor was the greatest of the elves, except perhaps for Galadriel. Even in the old ages she was one of the most powerful characters. Not a Valar or Maiar, sure, but she's up there with the greats.
This is what studios feared when Peter Jackson was going around begging someone to help make the films. The studios were afraid that LoTR would end up looking and feeling exactly like this. I love Lord of the Rings but the story behind Peter Jackson made the movie is even better like how he had every single piece perfectly fall into place like how they fired the original Aragorn actor pretty much at the last minute and had to recast Viggo, a basically unknown and the only reason he took the role because his son was a huge fan of LoTR. Also how Sean Connery turned down the role and Ian McKellen got the part, and really so much more. It's incredible to believe such an incredible number of miracles took place to make LoTR into what it became. If you told me Eru himself was the one guiding everything into place, I'd believe you. This show however? Is just pieced together by a bunch of brain dead idiots with no respect whatsoever to the lore. If you're a real fan, DO NOT watch this crap, don't let Amazon think it's okay. Don't give them the viewing numbers.
I noped out the minute they starte showing the "diverse" hobbits and dwarves, knowing they had _two fucking continents_ worth of actually diverse characters in the form of the Haradrim and Easterlings. But making that work required actual talent, and by now it's pretty clear they have none and only want to milk the established LOTR fanbase for cash while calling everyone who dislikes what they have done the usual negative buzzwords.
After seeing what these people did to games, comics, and Cowboy Bebop, it's good to see at least the Tolkien and Anime fans push back against this nonsense.
Agreed. Hollywood/Disney did the same thing to Star Wars. Too bad J.R.R. Tolkien’s son isn’t around anymore. Christopher Tolkien trashed Peter Jackson’s LOTR and The Hobbit. Imagine what he’d think of Amazon’s LOTR abortion.
Ah, Galadriel. Older than the sun, she's learned magic directly from the gods. Amazon makes her look like college freshman who hasn't quite outgrown her "angry teen" phase.
Agree with everything you said - can reduce it all to "why the fuck is she wearing Gondorian armor? No elf would ever wear that, Galadriel most of all"
Au contrare. In a generation this might be what's left gor a generation that don't read books but have a LotR remake in the spirit of this. That is if we don't also play the long game.
@@johansvanborg5870 prime video has the worst appeal of any streaming service lotr bc of it Christian influences is still more on the edge of acceptable nerdyness
The showrunners are too lazy to even read the freaking wiki pages, or rather they probably don't care. Getting rid of Shippey was a red flag the size of the Titanic.
Replacing the one well-known scholar by some unknown entity enables them to fool around with the stories - doing a Game of Thrones. They only forgot that Tolkien's believers are entrenched for almost 7 decades. We know our stuff. We had some problems with wrong stuff in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings. We had more problems when Peter Jackson yielded to the studio bosses in the Hobbit. We will not accept this abomination to be named Middle Earth or to be attached to Tolkien. If they want to create. Fine, do it. But don't call it Middle Earth, don't use the name Tolkien. But you are lacking abilities to create, you can only spoil existing legacies. You've done that often enough. We are fed up. Just go away!
Oh my goodness you are SPOT ON in every way! I came here from the "Tolkien expert reacts" video put out by IGN; severely disappointed in his lack of knowledge, and a lot of the comments said to come here for truth. So glad I did!
A friend (scholar) once told me "There's plenty of room for other stories within Middle Earth. Loads of time and events that would make a RPG a valid and fun experience. But no one cares, Tolkien wrote the best ones anyway.". I have to agree.
We used to play a Pathfinder-like pen and paper game based on this great source text inspired by Tolkien's Middle Earth. Sure we played with the themes but we never strayed from the source. Never go full woke!
He created so much stuff around his stories. Almost all fantasy created after his stuff takes a bite out of it. Orcs, dwarves, elves - whoever has them in THEIR stories takes a dip into his definitions. This guy was a genius. I'm not complaining about other creators. If they make good stories, I'm entertained. Just make good stuff of your own, just don't call it Middle Earth or a derivative of Tolkien if you just take some bits out of it. But if you use his name and say it's Middle Earth then stick to the rules he made up. That's your choice: stick to the rules or create your own. But as we all know and he said himself: not everybody can create. But those that cannot create, defile HIS creation.
@@mflax4331 The witcher is based on slavic folklore. Sure, its not as great as middle earth, far from it. But it goes to show that it can be done. Well, the netflix series is trash but the witcher as an intelectual property works. People know the name, be it from the books games or show. Game of thrones worked too, until it didnt. Point is, it dossnt have to be middle earth just to sound familiar. Thats lazy. They could either stick to the books or create their own thing. Oor, pick another series, one less obviously tied to a certain culture, or one that includes "diverse" races. Game of thrones literally has a continent that stands in for Asia.
@@vladavram9209 I prefer "create their own thing". BTW I'm European. And I know the witcher. They have made games of it which have visualized the characters that originally came from books. Thus moving away from those pre-existing pictures was a point of criticism. And rightfully so. If you start creating something for a movie, you have to make sure that neither the author nor somebody else has previously made something very popular that contradicts your planned images. It reduces the impact of the story told and it moves the audience away. That may not concern you, but fans will be concerned about it.
@@MiaogisTeas the original dungeons and dragons is based off the hobbit and LOTR books. If you can get a copy of 1st edition copies of rule books they are fun to read. Races are damn close to being word for word from the books and monsters are named and look like the characters from the books. Halflings were also supposed to be named hobbits but TSR was sued and so they changed the name to halfling. The culture and sun races were the same.
A more accurate quote to apply than the "evil creates nothing" one everyone is chanting. If only people really knew how much they really are in the middle of a war, and how much their enemy truly hates them.
"Angry and brash warrior" is *totally* in-character for someone who's so gentle, wise, and beautiful that she had a *dwarf* fanboying over her. (Sarcasm, obviously)
Galadriel rejected the Valar and left the Undying Lands because she wanted to rule a realm in Middle-earth. By the time of the Third Age she was the mightiest of all remaining Elves, it makes perfect sense she participated in many battles to get that reputation.
@@JainaSoloB312 Well I am quite sure she's one of the remaining powerful and wise elves in the Third Age because she didn't lead armies and fight in front lines. 🤦 She avoided to be involved in those.
I used to think I was a hard core Lord of the Rings fan, then I heard JSG speak elvish, and I didn't think that anymore. His ownage logic bombs are potent, powerful and drive home every single time. Terra I wish I could succinctly analyze things like this guy can.
Real Tolkien fan speak the tongue of Mordor you fool ! Sauron rules in this bitch 🔥 (just kidding of course, a fan is one who respect the work of the author , nothing more nothing less)
I remember a quote from Jackson before Fellowship came out. It's what made me dare to hope this adaptation might actually be good... He said, paraphrasing from memory... That he was adapting some of the greatest books ever written. His job, as a director, was to get out of Tolkien's way and let that story come through. Which is advice for anyone adapting Tolkien's work: simply get out of his way
It seems Amazon could have avoided all this by just getting the rights to Elder Scrolls and making a show about that. It's got the name recognition, diverse peoples to explore, and they could be pretty loosey goosey with the story without messing with the lore too much. I think Netflix is supposed to be making a show about this but Amazon could have probably outbid them and Elder Scrolls would be a much better vehicle to make Amazon's version of Game of Thrones than Lord of the Rings which is what Amazon has admitted they are going for. But what do I know, I'm just Rocko's dog Spunky.
I'm not a fan boy of things though I remember the things I loved as a kid. However I'm certainly glad there are guys like yourself who remember the magic and stick up for it. These things make up our memories. I appreciate you fighting the bull. Thanks for what you do. I subscribed. Thanks brother.
These 'writers' must have rejoiced when they heard of christopher tolkien's passing. The best defender of Prof Tolkien's work no longer present to protect it.
@@paulelroy6650 I mean yes, but Peter Jackson's films still respected the source material and tried to do it justice even if you can argue about how well they adapted the books.
A single mom that's in a relationship with a black elf, that's not Tolkien that's what you expect from As the World Turns. What's next Calabrembor has an evil twin? Is someone gonna be in a coma for several episodes? The absolute arrogance of these "writers" is beyond the pale. I have no doubt that they got participation ribbons all of their life, and no one was allowed to ever say that they sucked. I know I can't prove it but that's the only way to explain how anyone can say or think for a single second that they are a better writer than a literal literary genius. As far as I'm concerned law den aniron.
"Peter Jackson's trilogy is so good that not even Peter Jackson could follow it" nicely put JSG, and I am VERY jealous of your wealth of knowledge on Tolkien
I remember hearing that Jackson had to follow the trilogy books almost by the letter. Some sort of interview or something where he basically said that "the more they changed, the less sense it made. Even a little change would have big implications." If this is true, then you can imagine what all the changes to The Hobbit did.
We all saw the clips of how the poor man drove himself into utter exhaustion to deliver the quality product we all have come to love, and that was with an all star cast, the best people he could get and the love of the Tolkien fan community behind him. That was BEFORE all the identity politics dropped, so imagine how much MORE DIFFICULT it will be for someone to make something of quality now. I could be wrong, but I'm speculating that we are either gonna see 1 or more showrunner swaps on this show, or the writers and/or "revisionist Scholars" or gonna get rotated, which will mean the show will probably change its entire tone and/or pace, making it either a s**tstorm of stitched-together stories that will make no sense, or the most infested political nonsense you've ever seen on TV to date. And there will be "Tolkien fans" that will celebrate this as the best Tolkien on screen they've EVER seen. I can GUARANTEE it.
he is not some saint, he almost blew it, just to be reeled back in by others : See going all the way through filming the fight with sauron at the black gate
Great vid. Re: Galadriel as being full of vengeance and leading armies - that was never her, and instead that's the role of Feanor, who she despised. And Tolkien made it clear that in the final great battle against Melkor none of the Noldor that followed Feanor back to Middle-Earth participated; the idea that Galadriel was engaged at that time and afterwards in hunting down "collaborators" is so at odds with the text it makes my blood boil.
Its dumb-wave feminism at work. For women to be "equal" they have to look/act like and eventually become the men in the story. Or realize that different people do different things. Morgana la Fey for instance is a nemesis of Arthur's but she doesn't need to fight him in a duel or swing a sword better than Lancelot to prove it. At best, the moronic writers are channeling Joan of Arc but apparently believe she too was a brash and young samurai master.
Yep, on one hand they hate men, on the other hand they seem to think only a man can be powerful and sculpt their female characters after them...they have no clue about anything...
_"Can we come up with the novel Tolkien never wrote....."_ That is cue for me to ignore the production by Amazon. For such beings of quaint tastes as I, if Tolkien did not write it, I shall have naught to do with it if it pretends to be Tolkienian. In the meantime, to phrase it in lowbrow parlance, "I love me some Silmarillion".
I keep having to point out, it's not racism when we react to companies making racist character changes in shows. It's not sexist when we react negatively to companies doing sexist gender swaps. They're accusing us of what they're doing and we keep treating it like they have a leg to stand on with that argument.
Yes; I saw a comment by an East Asian fan who said that when these writers take white characters and cast a non white actor, it seems like they want non white people to be white and to not have their own culture, but to just take on white culture. I thought that was a great point.
@@swagromancer black elf. Why is there a black elf? There doesn't need to be a black elf yet there is a black elf. No hate towards the actor playing, but *why* does there have to be a black elf in the series? I'm sure he could do an amazing performance, but why? There's never been any mention whatsoever of a black elf in the books, so why did they need to make this change?
if this show was a “Tolkien inspired” Instead of being directly connected I probably would’ve been fully onboard with the show. I think the problem with making sequels/ prequels to massive ip’s is they spend too much time justifying their existence by trying to be different. I feel like the best “sequels” are heavily inspired works that are made by super fans.
I haven't heard many people point out the aesthetic of the sets and costumes yet but that was one of my biggest anxieties after the VF article dropped - the Jackson trilogy, though not perfect, succeeded hugely in embodying the sense of *reality* in the books. The Hobbit went in a somewhat more cartoonish direction, and the stills in the VF article DID remind me somehow of cosplay - bright and colorful and 'pretty' enough, but not like 'real' clothing/armor that people would actually wear. (The fact that you can see daylight through everyone's cloaks, for instance, makes me wonder why they're even wearing them?... certainly not to keep warm.) Also, Khuzdul and Sindarin in the same video? Noice.
@Juggling Llama Productions Same with their Wheel of Time Show. Everythings looked far too clean and most clothing seem to be not "streetworthy" if you get my drift.
I think Jackson did a near perfect adaptation. The changes mostly made sense. There are only a few changes that I feel made it worse, and even then not much. Few movies capture the spirit of a work like his films do.
I think the biggest issue I had with the movies was the Elves in Helms Deep. Sending a Lothlorien elf to lead Rivendell elves. Confusing how they even met up or communicated.
Jackson had the other writers keeping him in check, he almost blew it during RoTK by putting Sauron in it, they even filmed it, just CGed the big troll Aragorn fights over top of Sauron
This feels very like watching toddlers smear finger paint all over the Mona Lisa and then present it back to us, self-satisfied and waiting for applause. Tolkien's writing is precise to the degree of fastidiousness. He chose his words with purpose and understanding to give life to his imagination and create a mythology for England that could, in some small way, replace the one that had been lost to history. We know what the characters and people of Middle-earth looked like because he told us in his novels and then again in his letters. It takes a peculiar degree of intellectual dishonesty to misrepresent his meaning the way I have lately seen published in the media. I have always held deep reservations about the translation of Tolkien's work into a visual medium. I think the audience, inevitably, is robbed of the experience of creating his imagery internally and deprived of the sense of being swept away into a place of pure imagination. Peter Jackson's films did so with a degree of respect that I can agree make them valuable, particularly for those people who would otherwise never have experienced the story and now share in the joy of it. His adaptation was beautifully done - and yet still some part of me wishes it was never made. This 'thing' Amazon dares to pollute the words of Tolkien with is a vainglorious debasement of art.
But this isn't written for that type of audience. This is lowest common denomination level from what I'm taking away from this. I'm sure there will be an overabundance of profanity and nudity and no idea of how to use either for real effect. I'm old enough to remember real censors for music so that when the artist did say any profanity it was to emphasize their point and not just word filling.
@@newtpondskipper There's gonna be a scene where like, elves are all being taken captive in chains or something and for some reason *they all just happen to be black* and their captors will be white goblins who act like morons, just to really drive home the point to our wonderful "modern audience". The men will come up with a terrible rescue plan so the womens will do a better one. Then the stronk womens character will plan to team up with the black guy elf to defeat the oppressors who somehow captured them but are also stupid. Theyll be struggling to defeat the hoards of goblins and the black guy elf will be like "Wait there's someone joining the battle!" [Music crescendo and then mute for dramatic effect] Then someone will shout "I see you needed backup!" [Sudden camera pan with overused Inception earbleed noise] The woman will come in riding one of them giant elephant things while her stupid animal-esque yet sentient sidekick that she found in the woods eating his own shit will pop into frame and make funny "owowowowow" noises and wave his arms about. (Her makeup and hair will be perfect as if she hasn't been in a massive battle and blood, dirt and fire haven't been flying everywhere.) They'll defeat the goblins. It'll be a "groundbreaking" and "thought-provoking" scene that's "relevant to our time" and it'll get like 250 thousand likes on Twitter and the person who wrote the scene will be a hero and she'll create an onlyfans afterwards. The men elves will try to take credit for the plan and thus a woman's work, then she'll like raise a knowing yet slightly annoyed "oh you silly men" eyebrow to another womens and they'll laugh about it because they do all the work and the males are incompetent but still arrogant because males. The Blue Wizards will be gay (but not too much to be noticeable because they want that China dollar). The director will just say on Twitter afterwards that they're gay haha. They'll say it was a tribute to Gandalf's actor. ^ I wrote this in ten minutes and we all know that's going to be a scene in this 400 million dollar "re-imagining". It'll get a 100% "Fresh" Critic Rating on Rotten Tomatoes and get tons of awards.
@@Voidwurm1701 Of course it will. This is why I want Amazon to lose those billions they dumped into this for every season this show poisons the cultural sphere with its existence.
I wonder what happened to all the good writers that used to work in the business. Writing is probably the most important thing to a show or film's production because you can have great performances from the actors, good special effects, cool sets and costumes, ect... but if it's all in service to a terrible story then it's all for naught. Just look at Babylon 5 for a prime example: the special effects and sets were kind of cheap looking even for the day and you could tell the show was really stretching the limits of its budget to try and make it all happen but the writing was so good the fans could overlook those flaws and just immerse themselves in the characters and the story.
What's really going on is that Amazon wants to use the Tolkien's brand to tell *transformed storylines* that promote their own POLITICS. That's 100% it! What they need to realize is that EVERYTHING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ABOUT POLITICS. And when you try to make it that, it simply destroys the quality of everything you do.
@@ANTIStraussian Oh, you mean like elves showing up at the Battle of Helm's Deep? Merry and Pippin just being portrayed largely as bumbling comedy relief characters who stumbled into the quest instead of the competent and brave friends who willingly helped Frodo escape from the Shire? Gimli frequently being shown as a comic relief character? Legolas single handedly taking down an Oliphant in a ridiculous CGI fest action scene? Arwen taking Glofindel's place? The idea that Frodo would "send Samwise home" over the lembas bread? Aragorn doing something as dishonorable as fucking chopping the Mouth of Sauron's head off when he was negotiating under a flag of truce? Treebeard has the Entmoot and decides NOT to go to war until he's pretty much tricked into it by the hobbits? Tolkien fans, including myself, have had criticisms like this since the beginning. Where were you? Peter Jackson did actually get some stuff wrong that I would have done differently but his efforts in the first trilogy are still the best we've seen so far. And The Hobbit just never even should have been a trilogy in the first place. The Hobbit trilogy is pretty much unwatchable for me.
@@Strideo1 reread what I said. I am saying these people saying Peter Jackson movies were perfect and the new show will be terrible are forgetting people on usnet forums said the original trilogy changed things from the book.
I don't know why this makes me smile, but your pure investment, love, and dedication to the lore of Middle Earth is just strong enough to justify the sheer sass you level at these myopic woke-tards butchering the fanbase. And I love it, cuz you've earned it. Never stop, my dude.
@@fvefve12 Who are you to say that the estate is following Tolkien's wishes? Any understanding of Tolkien would say that he would not approve of the butchering of his works. You've made a ridiculous argument.
It's probably why they're doing it. We saw the do it with Stan Lee and wait for him to die to kick their art up to up to eleven. I know Tolkien has been gone for a while but my point is that they wait to deface.
I remember distinctly that dwarves in LotR lore are PROUD of their beards, regardless of gender. That they're praised for their intricate braiding styles, and that is a skill that the dwarves community cherish and admire. And yet now, they have a clean shaven dwarf, who is telling us: Yo girls, don't conform to the patriarchy standard of beauty! Even though Gimli once mentioned that there is no difference between men and women dwarves. That you could date one without knowing their gender until the dwarf decide to tell or show you (and this doesn't satisfy the lgbtq group???) What is this? The next gender revolution? Are they trying to demand that next, for women to be powerful and independent, we should all shave our hair? (This is getting hypocritical, when women on tik tok are happily showing off their hairy armpits) And hey, better yet, cancel and doxx all those hair braiding tutorials, how dare women waste their time on looking pretty on weddings and parties when we have better things to do?!
@@rizkymubaroq3025 maybe, I dont remember that .. but if Dwarves really couldnt tell the difference .. theyd go extinct wouldnt they? or at least get very angry after weddings
Watching your videos regarding the Tolkien books/lore and talking about the show on Amazon, you're making me wanna buy the official books to finally read them!
I always love hearing you talk about LOTR. Loved the 20th anniversary stream of LOTR with you Gary and Robert. Hope you do more streams together when the show comes out.
My first red flag was, just what I read a while ago. They filmed the first season in NZ. Then moved it all to the UK for season 2 onwards. In my mind that means more CGI and less actual real settings. Like LOTR to The Hobbit.
Oh thank God! I was ready to stick a fucking shotgun in my mouth, but now that elves and dwarves are black, I have a reason to live!!!!!! THANK YOU AMAZON!!!!!
Really sad here because Tolkien's works gave me hope when I going through a rough time in my high school, and it could very well saved me from suicide. To see his works butchered and twisted is devastating. Kudos to you still remembering the details and called them out 👏
Hey it frickin sucks. Also really sorry you went through that. We are seriously blessed to have Jackson's adaptations - I don't think i've ever watched a better adaptation. Also, there is an amazing series of narrated audiobooks on the fellowship, two towers and return - you should %100 check that out if you haven't already - They were on youtube last time I listened and have different voice actors and music from the film score - bluddy epic. I'm super pissed at how the source material and soul of the work is being treated (it's not just happening to LOTR either - Witcher was beyond butchered) However, during our lifetimes we may be blessed again at some point by another faithful adaptation. Great works tend to get multiple adaptations over time.
@@cierazeh3522 Yeah one thing is for sure, this new bo/ezos thing has nothing to do but the but name with lotr. It is leftist lunacy for small children.
They easily had the chance to explore actual black cultures in LOTR with the southern realms and easterlings, but instead decided to race spawn non human characters for some reason. Plus what's the reason with removing beards from dwarves for no reason?
In german: Ich habe den Teaser gesehen und war entsetzt! "Das Böse kann nichts Neues erschaffen, es kann nur korrumpieren und zerstören, was gute Kräfte erfunden oder geschaffen haben.“ J.R.R Tolkien Wenn man woker Identitätspolitik eine Plattform geben will kreiert man eigene Geschichten aber fasst Tolkiens Lebenswerk nicht an!
Der Quotation ist falsch. Leute haben es einfach rumgesagt ohne zu gucken ob es echt ist! Die Leute hier die dieses falsche Quotation benutzen sind denklose Schafe. Die glauben sogar, dass dumme Showrunners wie Melkor und Sauron sind. Das ist positiv dumm.
Zu spät. Ich wette die schwarze und bartlose Zwergenprinzessin ist auch noch queer, mindestens aber schwul. 1 Milliarde USD für nichts. Meine Güte was man mit dieser Menge Geld für ein grandioses Epos schaffen könnte...
I truly appreciate your comments, I am a Canadian, and a white man who is 61 years old. I’ve been reading JRR Tokien’s works since I was a teenager, and to see someone of a different country, a different culture, appreciate the things that I appreciate, and be able to speak on the subject so well, proves that Tokien’s writing brings different cultures together. Thank you very much.
Apparently the front guy in the elves vs orcs shot that looks like he's about to cry mid battle is Finrod. You're telling me that this guy is the same guy who fought Sauron in a battle of song or killed a werewolf with his bare hands to save Beren? Also wtf is that armor, my God the helms. I know that everyone is commenting this but it has to be said: "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made." - JRR Tolkien
I love the Silmarillion. Galadriel was never "brash and angry," that was Feanor. She was calculating and ambitious, maybe, but there's nothing that hints at her having any kind of 'hot' emotion. Plus, by this point she's thousands of years old, I think that's more than long enough for personality to settle.
It was the LOTR movies that got me into the books, and it was the books that inspired me to write and work on my own worlds. Politics in any form of media corrupts and destroys anything it touches. They took away Star wars and now they come for LOTR.
Its not exactly politics but immorality, their political positions are pure evil and directed by the king of lies, and it is man's nature and said king for which corrupts all the good things, for as Tolkien said, (as I paraphrase because its everywhere here) evil cannot create anything new, it can only corrupt that which was made by the good forces.
Tolkien historian: "Shouldn't we try to keep it as close to the books as possible?" Amazon Showrunner: "Psh! You think people have actually read these books?? Get the $%^# outta here!"
@@ANTIStraussian It was adapted to a movie yeah, but P. Jackson stayed faithful to Tolkien's work and what is behind it. And that's what he was aiming for, there's that famous interview where he explains he will pour no message in it other than Tolkien's. That's basic humility. But here? We hear such things as "improving upon Tolkien's work", "a story that Tolkien could have written", and we get 1500 years condensed into a few, rewriting of characters, ideology pushed all over the place... It will have nothing to do with what Peter Jackson did.
@@ANTIStraussian For example black characters just for the sake of having black representation, while that brings nothing to the story you tell or the world you depict, even taking out from Tolkien's well established world where every race, their colors, their location at what period, their migrations, were well thought and have a meaning and a reason, just for the sake of shouting to our faces their political views from the real world. We don't care about it, it has nothing to do there, and that's just using a source material, whatever it is, to get THEIR message and THEIR views across, and has nothing to do with Tolkien, is disrespectful towards him, his work, the fans, and just shows how narcissistic they are.
You know, after watching other YT creators' videos and reading the comments - most of them said that PJ's Galadriel is scarier and more intimidating than full-armor Galadriel of ROP. That's how you create strong, intimidating woman without actually making her look physically strong and out of place/ lore.
@@ironhelix306 unrelated but...Seeing Gina Carrano in the Terror on the Prairie trailer, goddamn, she really fits the portrayal of 'strong woman of the American frontier' and 'wild west lady/mother with a rifle that you don't wanna mess with'.
@@mimicinabox2547 The woke cult really gets lost with the reality that men and women are infact different. That together complement each other and that slaps them (the woke cultists) in the face. It is why their strong whamen act and look like men. The only thing they can comprehend is strength and power is masculine and violent. It is why Amazon failed so hard with The Wheel of Time Series. (Possible spoilers?) As the underlying theme of Jordan's series is what is possible with the two halfs of the One Power (magic in that world), Saidin and Sidar work together and the adventure is basically the result of what happens when they do not. Interestingly I think the WoT series is somewhat allegorical to our current political situation regarding men and women. How our politics are being used to corrupt our culture and cause strife, divisiveness and confusion between the sexes.
"Zło nie jest w stanie stworzyć niczego nowego, może jedynie zniekształcać i niszczyć to, co zostało wymyślone lub stworzone przez siły dobra” J.R.R. Tolkien
When Tolkien started writing this story, he had a specific target audience in mind. You ready to learn who? His kids. That's right, he wrote these stories for his children. And when he died before finishing it, Christopher took up his fathers pen and spent time going over his father's notes so we might be able to read the Silmarillion.
That is not true. The Hobbit was written for children, the Silmarillion and the stories that were eventually incorporated into it were not. He did send chapters of Lord of the Rings to Christopher as he wrote them, but Christopher was an adult (and a pilot in the RAF fighting in WW2) at that time. But the Silmarillion was begun during WW1, before he even had any children.
@@radagast7200 - He was also disappointed when people took his work too seriously. These people getting all bent out of shape and outraged about these changes being made to movies BASED off his work, he probably would care less.
Question: if this is a prequel to LotR and this show is super "diverse" then that would mean that there was some ethnic cleansing between the two series?
Amazon : we now present to you, Beethoven's fifth symhpony (... The first 8 notes, followed by 10 minutes of rap/hip-hop accompanied by diverse breakdancers, and ending with the 8 starting notes again.) Beethoven fans : WTF Amazon ???? Amazon : What's wrong with you Beethoven fans ? Don't you know European classical music should be more like nowadays American showbizz , and more diverse ? Are you all bigots or what ? (and moreover we only have the rights to the first 8 notes)
I have been waiting eagerly for this. I'm deeply saddened at how amazon is treating the lore of LOTR. At least we have the books and the original film trilogy.
This Version of Galadriel doesn’t look like she spent much time in Melians school of wise queens. Also Elrond does not in any way look like he would be a great grandson of Luthien much less Idril. He looks like the adoring fan NPC from the Oblivion game.
This show is doomed, they have everything to guide them, they have the books, they have the experts who understand the work and they have the money to make it. And they decide they're going to go the opposite way, they decide that activism is the most important thing, honestly I've seen it so many times that I don't even feel angry anymore.
This just shows that apathy is worse than ignorance, they are far from ignorant, they are very aware what they are doing wrong, that's why they pin the blame on the fans. Their self-awareness of the shit their doing is probably the worst thing about this. Their willing to decay absolutely everything good and fun without any remorse by *legal* means. This is the evil of Melkor that Tolkien had warned us about. It very much exists, just not in the fantasy way.
@@litteliten4999 It'd be funnier to see them die off soon, not literally but just watch them collapse upon themselves with their self-destructiveness. That'd might take a long time.
Shippey had the same training as Tolkien from the same institutions. He was only protecting his legacy. This makes me look forward to seeing what he had to say on the matter. I took a course on Literature of the Vikings with Dr Shippey years ago, and I was impressed with his scholarship, worldliness and integrity. If Amazon removed him, it was guided with the opposite values.
I don't know why people get so hung up on Shippey. Yeah, it's a shame he was removed from the project, but he did violate his NDA. That mistake was on his part.
They are basically using the name by using it's parts of it's lore as a skeleton to built their own version and interpretation of the whole thing like they've done it countless times to lure the fans.
Y'know I'd love to see you start a new channel focused on LOTR lore, your passion for it is self-evident and I'd love to hear your summarizations along with your insightful commentary. Love your channel, keep up the good work, and if you find yourself in southern Colorado I'd be honored to buy you a pint!
clearly someone forgot to tell the showrunners about the haradrim and the easterlings. two cultures that we (as far as i am aware) know very little of, the former being north african/middle eastern ish if i'm not wrong and the latter having been portrayed as a splice of persian, japanese and chinease. they are ripe for exploration, their cultures pre and post saurons influence with the lingering taint of morgoth ever present and ever damning.
The Easterlings were described as olive skinned with straight dark hair and the Haradrim described as brown or dark skinned with dark eyes and black hair. So yea if they wanted the racial diversity route that would be the way to go. The Haradrim don't have any mention during the second age from what I remember but Khamul one of the Nine was an Easterling, I expect we will see the 9 as Men before they are corrupted so we might see a little bit of them.
I agree totally and commented as such on the actual Amazon trailer - however they most likely wouldn't consider doing that as that would portray Black actors as representatives of evil empires, and we all know that would be against the script. Instead they will change Tolkien's vison to suit their own story. To me its now a fanfic and I wont be watching it. Shame.
I have an inkling the "mysterious character" that the Harfoots are supposed to introduce into the story is Tom Bombadil. Who in the Second Age would be a "mysterious lost man" if not Iarwain Ben-Adar? I cringe at the thought of what antics the show runners are going to have him perform to suit the wicked tastes of their one-eyed master Bezauron.
it wouldnt be a terrible stretch if they are from the race of Men who are ancestors to the stoor Hobbits.It is possible for them to be just a little bit shorter than everyone else
I was patiently waiting for this video and it did not disappoint! I'm honestly looking forward more to the Two Towers anniversary live stream Nerdrodic is planning (hopefully you'll be on that one too), the last one was you guys did was amazing!
@@wezzy9437 you can use google to translate. "Evil cannot create anything new, it can only spoil and destroy what good forces have invented or created."
@@gurke-schurke9820 Because on a normal day, plenty of russian folk online are on edge about anything diversity related, race and machism is a big thing in their culture (and often turns them racist and pro-imperial as public debate is state sponsored toxicity in this topic) even communists (which were not supposed to be racists) organized their land and plenty of politics based on race and did some racial genociding. Plenty of russians have more nuanced views of course, despite the state loudspeakers. Which I am guessing are booming at this show, just english RT news has dozens of pieces on this show. Online, when talking about the possible Ukraine invasion, I've seen the odd few russian nationals say "Yeah, let's get them, let's kick woke demoracies off of the globe". This time, for once, they share a few valid logical points with reasonable people. Though, for a few, for the entirely wrong reasons.
Amazon Studios: "If you don't like the show you are a bigot"
The entire Lord Of The Ring fanbase: "So you have chosen, death."
"You...have elected, the way of...PAIN!"
also the entire Lord of the Rings fanbase: Do not expect any mercy from us.
@@HyperMoeMan fact
@@HyperMoeMan Funny enough Benioff and Weiss creating and original stories didnt have to happen.
Thomas & Friends with S3 back in 1991 proved it is possible to do original stories that are good enough in a tv adaptation of a book series.
They screwed themselves with the wheel of time series too.
“There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
And as soon as this is a smash hit, Amazon will be making diverse movies about Vikings. There are so many diverse people in Norse mythology you would hardly believe it...
That leaves us with Dwarfish! :D
Chad treebeard
I can think of a few!
I was shooked as a kid when that Ent elder said that line , it really conveyed how he was beyond anger against that bastard Saruman (my feelings exactly when I saw the trailer for this new Lord of the suffering : Power of wokeness)
“Subversion of expectations” is a fancy way of saying “disappointing the audience.”
Hahaha love this comment. So underrated.
Or propoganda
When I hear that phrase from someone working on expanding someone else's work, I hear "We're just gonna substitute our far inferior fan fiction for everything people loved about the original work. In fact, you're going to wonder why we even spent the money to buy the original IP."
"There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery."
We need to speak in Mordor.
only the black tongue would be adequate to express such outrage but none dare use it for it's foulness is terrible to hear....
Galdalf: I speak black tongue...
please oh grey one don't...oh gods the sound
You sir win the internets.
Haha of all the quotes people have put forth for this series, that is the most apt. Perfect call lol.
Why we loved the Jackson films and hate this rubbish: Amazon: “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
Peter Jackson: "We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies.
Precisely.
Jackson replaced Glorfindel with Arwen in the movie to have more screen time of female characters.
@@Patrick-qed Yes, an excellent choice to expand an existing character and give weight to the romance between her and Aragorn. However, he also included whatever the female elf character was in the Hobbit, which was one of many missteps in that rendition.
The Wokes always made everything about race, gender, and sexual orientations. They put the "message" above the content of the art. There has been too much of these. They literally use same methods for every franchises they can buy. No originality, no soul, just corrupting any established work-of-art for quick cash-grabbing and political correctness. People all around the world are already sick and tired of these disgusting wokeness narratives. The solution is simple. REJECT this wokeness political brainwashing. REFUSE to pay and watch. Make them taste their own poison and make them pay good fortune for it.
🔥🔥🔥
Amazon: “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
Sure, so why not drop a couple of Teslas in it too?
Can't wait to see Galadriel rocking some Nikes
What the world looks like to a lunatic.
Truly an asinine piece of logic if I ever heard one. WHO'S world, exactly? Not Tolkien's! This is simply plagiarism with self-centered insertion.
Add a couple of trans characters...
These people need to understand no one cares what they think, we only care what Tolkien wrote.
@oky go away, spam bot. Stop posting your bad videos onto unrelated videos for attention.
@oky go away, spam bot. Stop posting your bad videos onto unrelated videos for attention.
Yea exactly, we only care what Tolkien thought
Yeah, they don't understand that they have to prove themselves. They think we should like their work because we like Tolkein's, which is just ridiculous.
Seeing as how many people are repeating the same fake quote and are making claims that are supported by nothing in Tolkien's lore - I have to disagree. People don't care what Tolkien actually wrote. They don't even know what he wrote. They care about what they _think_ they know about Tolkien's writing.
The funny thing is they've pissed off everyone. People have been typing evil can only destroy in several languages from all over the globe. It's beautiful
"Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” J.R.R. Tolkien
It's great seeing something so hated make everyone come together
Hell, even on left-leaning social media where you'd think they'd praise it to high heaven, I've seen people beyond furious at how this dumpster fire doesn't follow the lore, respect the characters, or anything. They stole from a dragon's hoard, and now are going to get it.
The solidarity is nice, but the phrase is over used and misapplied on many things.
@@MALICEM12 or maybe it’s not overused at all, and needs to be repeated until we stop with all this deconstruction nonsense. Here’s another quote to that effect:
“He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.”
Who are these people who think we can't be inspired by or identify with characters that don't look exactly like us? As a mexican woman, I felt perfectly fine watching Jackson's trilogy and it never bothered me that they were all white. They were supposed to be white. If I want to see myself then I pick up a mexican book or watch a mexican movie, or bask at the glory of a new mexican inspired anime. This is the work of a writer, not your playground for yelling virtue signaling.
That's what has bothered me, always, about adaptations. For me, the words of the creator are paramount. If he says that this race is blue with white eyes, I sure as hell expect to see an actor spray painted blue. For me, the main virtue in stories are not analogies or moral compasses. It's escapism. The creation of new worlds.
I just want to chime in because I want people reading your comment to know that this person does not speak for all POC. I love the original LOTR but as an Indian woman I was extremely sad to see that the only brown representation in those movies be for the villainous clans of people that sided with Sauron. Better representation is 100% something middle earth could do with. Skin color doesn't affect plot unless it's a plot about skin color, which this universe is not.
@@user-yo5yr9yr2h it has been years since I read the Silmarillion so I could be mistaken @just some guy could correct me or tell this better (the lore is strong with this one) but if I remember correctly, these "Villainous clans" came from the East and the south. they are not wholly evil at least not from the start, Sauron spent a good part of the second age seducing and or conquering these people (after all Sauron was the great seducer) just like the Numenoreans some welcomed the evil some fought it. we know the Numenoreans traded with the peoples of Middle Earth and most certainly had dealings with these peoples. I just didn't want you to think Tolkien meant for these people to be evil to the core. the sad thing is, this would have been a perfect opportunity for Amazon to introduce literally boatloads of diverse woman and men, perhaps, escaping Sauron's influence? it would have been lore friendly and made sense. plus, then anyone complaining would actually likely be an "ist" of one form or another.
It's kind of narcissistic or even sociopathic for these people to say they can't sympathize/empathize with and relate to someone who isn't just like them.
Plus if you swap around dynamics as we saw with the guy who did the Turning Red review, they're offended if someone doesn't identify with/relate to the things they like. I'm sure I'd be called a racist white person if I said I can't relate to/sympathize with a character of color.
That's legit. My thing is that Amazon changed core facts of this world, but could've introduced a new opportunities. Bring along the areas from which middle earth in cinematic has yet to see. Show how incredible those characters can be. We lond got new and staying true to the author's adaptation while adding with now I believe is the coolest way to continue LOTR!
The people that do that are the woke left, I don’t wanna get political but the woke people constantly say “black people cant stand up for themselves” or on your case a Mexican woman, then they say anyone who doesn’t think their way is racist, I’m not far right at all but I’ll never be woke left either ugh! Good for you for speaking up too
I'm so glad you said the same thing i've been saying for years "Peter jackson's trilogy is so good that not even Peter Jackson could follow it" lol
Hobbit was not his fault, studio forced him to make a trilogy of one book and include love triangle. plus he had very short time.
@@Сайтамен it just point out what, was it Elijah who said it; that Lord Of The Rings was the last big movie where the director and producer had full control over what they were creating. Ie you couldn't make a new LOTR today even if you wanted to, with how many hands there are in the production today.
@@grejsancoprative Last big movie like that was Revenge of the Sith, I think.
Kinda hard to match the quality, when 1) he didn't want to direct The Hobbit trilogy in the first place, and 2) he was called in at the last second and 3) the studio stretched the amount of films from two to three. The Hobbit lacked many of the pre-production qualities that enabled LotR to become what it is. Yes, they were able to re-use some assets - but it's hardly the same thing.
Do NOT blame it all on Jackson.
@@Сайтамен well he didn't really seem to have his heart in it.
Tolkien may be gone but his words are as immortal as his story, “Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.”
But is it really evil or more total hubris?
These people have openly stated that they like the world Tolkien created but that he couldn't write for sh**. They've almost literally stated "WE are going to write the stories Tolkien couldn't write."
I won't give any judgement until this drama is released.
@@tjroelsma There's a difference between the two? Evil and hubris, I mean?
Those words have been echoing with every franchise the disease comsumed, and now the rot took Tolkien's work.
Oh the irony of that statement given all the moralizing we did to get Germans whist happily taking their inventions...
_"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, we're trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."_
-Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
And that is why, even though the movies deviate from the books, they are so good. People who love Tolkien can tell that there was respect and love for the original work there. They know the beloved story is in good hands from the very beginning of Fellowship of the Ring.
Except Tolkien's books are full of his politics, so what are you on about?
@@tinamoul Jackson specifically said, “we weren’t going to put any of OUR OWN politics… into these movies.” He said nothing about Tolkien’s politics because it is Tolkien’s work. Of course his politics and biases are in it. They wanted to keep the spirit of the book in the movies and even the most hardcore book fans can admit that he did so successfully.
Yes, Peter Jackson did a very good job of honoring the original books and not putting in trendy personal politics, making characters "Gay", preaching about global warming etc. I have some differences with PJ interpretations - the extended version DVDs are better than the theatrical release which cut out the death of Sauraman.
These movies were well cast especially Aragorn, Boromor, Gandalf and Sauraman.
"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own." -J.R.R Tolkien
"anything that doesn't stick to the original source material (because that would be incredibly hard with a story spanning thousands of years) is "evil" because reasons"
@@beneko1127 remember the third melody of illuvatar: the simple, humble theme that was nonetheless unconquerable.
@@Matt-dl2iy People have given many many specific reasons including in this very video. Whether or not you want to acknowledge them is up to you but being willfully ignorant doesn't make your POV any more legitimate nor our POV any less. Straw-manning the issue just makes you look dumb and disingenuous and makes the rest of us more confident in our assertions
@@obinna1317 "straw manning the issue". There is no issue. The series isn't even out yet and people are calling it evil, lol.
Don't you see how ironic this quote is? The showrunners are LITERALLY creating new elements (characters, conflicts, who knows?) and people are complaining about how it's not accurate to the source, yet use this dumb quote as if it's relevant at all.
@@Matt-dl2iy Again, a clear lack of nuanced understanding of the reason people are using the quote. Just remain confused. If you haven't worked it out by now, I don't think anyone can explain it to you. Good day.
_That's_ Galadriel?! Galadriel doesn't need armor. She doesn't need to prove anything and she sure as shit doesn't need a sword, ten million times weaker than she is! Galadriel is my favorite. An ethereal goddess who has knowledge and power unmatched by anyone. It's like weakening Superman just to make him "relatable." They're not relatable characters. They're characters who are admired. Characters we wish we were like. Not characters just as pitiful as we are.
I can understand you loving Galadriel, but compared to many characters in the Silmarillion, she is pretty weak, she is certainly not in any way a "goddess". There are is no shortage of actual goddesses in Tolkeins work :p
When I heard Amazon making a LOTR series already knew it be all f*ckes up.
She was badass before even without being in the spotlight and forefront of the movies. Her echo was enough to give chills. Now they're going to make her boring. Wonderful. I hope they waste a lot of time and money
mate , they literlly raped superman. what do u even expect here ?
@@Duncangafney1 Tolkien himself stated that Feanor was the greatest of the elves, except perhaps for Galadriel. Even in the old ages she was one of the most powerful characters. Not a Valar or Maiar, sure, but she's up there with the greats.
This is what studios feared when Peter Jackson was going around begging someone to help make the films. The studios were afraid that LoTR would end up looking and feeling exactly like this. I love Lord of the Rings but the story behind Peter Jackson made the movie is even better like how he had every single piece perfectly fall into place like how they fired the original Aragorn actor pretty much at the last minute and had to recast Viggo, a basically unknown and the only reason he took the role because his son was a huge fan of LoTR. Also how Sean Connery turned down the role and Ian McKellen got the part, and really so much more. It's incredible to believe such an incredible number of miracles took place to make LoTR into what it became. If you told me Eru himself was the one guiding everything into place, I'd believe you. This show however? Is just pieced together by a bunch of brain dead idiots with no respect whatsoever to the lore. If you're a real fan, DO NOT watch this crap, don't let Amazon think it's okay. Don't give them the viewing numbers.
I already pledged not to watch it. I also plan to take the train to Oxford and cry at Tolkien’s grave.
I cancelled my subscription after they cancelled The Expanse and destroyed The Wheel of Time.
I noped out the minute they starte showing the "diverse" hobbits and dwarves, knowing they had _two fucking continents_ worth of actually diverse characters in the form of the Haradrim and Easterlings. But making that work required actual talent, and by now it's pretty clear they have none and only want to milk the established LOTR fanbase for cash while calling everyone who dislikes what they have done the usual negative buzzwords.
I'll probably pirate it. I wanna see the reasons why it sucks, but you're Right in that I don't wanna encourage Amazon with views
ill just pirate it if I want to watch it.
After seeing what these people did to games, comics, and Cowboy Bebop, it's good to see at least the Tolkien and Anime fans push back against this nonsense.
Agreed. Hollywood/Disney did the same thing to Star Wars.
Too bad J.R.R. Tolkien’s son isn’t around anymore. Christopher Tolkien trashed Peter Jackson’s LOTR and The Hobbit. Imagine what he’d think of Amazon’s LOTR abortion.
@@toothgrinder2760 makes me big sad Christopher isn't around. He would never let this abomination happen. 😔 😟 😥
"Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a weeb."
"What about side by side a friend?"
"Aye, I could do that."
@@toothgrinder2760 But I liked Peter Jackson's LOTR.
Wheel of Time fans pushed back and got told we were the most Toxic fan base, just for having an honest opinion.
Ah, Galadriel. Older than the sun, she's learned magic directly from the gods.
Amazon makes her look like college freshman who hasn't quite outgrown her "angry teen" phase.
I know she would be like 4,000 years old by this time. But there making her look like a young brash person.
ReLaTaBiLiTy.
I call her Bubblegum Girl. Like, radical. The short-haired, black elf is called Don LemonElf.
@@richardrose2606 I call her Gino
Galadriel In Name Only.
Well said. I can't add anything to that.
Agree with everything you said - can reduce it all to "why the fuck is she wearing Gondorian armor? No elf would ever wear that, Galadriel most of all"
Tolkien is eternal. In 5 to ten years, no one will remember this imposter.
In 10 years they will use it as an example on how not to do a tv show
Au contrare. In a generation this might be what's left gor a generation that don't read books but have a LotR remake in the spirit of this. That is if we don't also play the long game.
@@Brandelwyn less than that my friend…far less than that
@@johansvanborg5870 never underestimate the power of the long game.
@@johansvanborg5870 prime video has the worst appeal of any streaming service lotr bc of it Christian influences is still more on the edge of acceptable nerdyness
The showrunners are too lazy to even read the freaking wiki pages, or rather they probably don't care. Getting rid of Shippey was a red flag the size of the Titanic.
Replacing the one well-known scholar by some unknown entity enables them to fool around with the stories - doing a Game of Thrones. They only forgot that Tolkien's believers are entrenched for almost 7 decades. We know our stuff. We had some problems with wrong stuff in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings. We had more problems when Peter Jackson yielded to the studio bosses in the Hobbit. We will not accept this abomination to be named Middle Earth or to be attached to Tolkien.
If they want to create. Fine, do it. But don't call it Middle Earth, don't use the name Tolkien. But you are lacking abilities to create, you can only spoil existing legacies. You've done that often enough. We are fed up. Just go away!
Oh my goodness you are SPOT ON in every way! I came here from the "Tolkien expert reacts" video put out by IGN; severely disappointed in his lack of knowledge, and a lot of the comments said to come here for truth. So glad I did!
A friend (scholar) once told me "There's plenty of room for other stories within Middle Earth. Loads of time and events that would make a RPG a valid and fun experience. But no one cares, Tolkien wrote the best ones anyway.".
I have to agree.
We used to play a Pathfinder-like pen and paper game based on this great source text inspired by Tolkien's Middle Earth. Sure we played with the themes but we never strayed from the source. Never go full woke!
He created so much stuff around his stories. Almost all fantasy created after his stuff takes a bite out of it. Orcs, dwarves, elves - whoever has them in THEIR stories takes a dip into his definitions. This guy was a genius.
I'm not complaining about other creators. If they make good stories, I'm entertained. Just make good stuff of your own, just don't call it Middle Earth or a derivative of Tolkien if you just take some bits out of it. But if you use his name and say it's Middle Earth then stick to the rules he made up. That's your choice: stick to the rules or create your own.
But as we all know and he said himself: not everybody can create. But those that cannot create, defile HIS creation.
@@mflax4331 The witcher is based on slavic folklore. Sure, its not as great as middle earth, far from it. But it goes to show that it can be done. Well, the netflix series is trash but the witcher as an intelectual property works. People know the name, be it from the books games or show. Game of thrones worked too, until it didnt. Point is, it dossnt have to be middle earth just to sound familiar. Thats lazy. They could either stick to the books or create their own thing. Oor, pick another series, one less obviously tied to a certain culture, or one that includes "diverse" races. Game of thrones literally has a continent that stands in for Asia.
@@vladavram9209 I prefer "create their own thing".
BTW I'm European. And I know the witcher. They have made games of it which have visualized the characters that originally came from books. Thus moving away from those pre-existing pictures was a point of criticism. And rightfully so.
If you start creating something for a movie, you have to make sure that neither the author nor somebody else has previously made something very popular that contradicts your planned images. It reduces the impact of the story told and it moves the audience away. That may not concern you, but fans will be concerned about it.
@@MiaogisTeas the original dungeons and dragons is based off the hobbit and LOTR books.
If you can get a copy of 1st edition copies of rule books they are fun to read. Races are damn close to being word for word from the books and monsters are named and look like the characters from the books.
Halflings were also supposed to be named hobbits but TSR was sued and so they changed the name to halfling.
The culture and sun races were the same.
Just Some Guy is the foremost expert on JRR Tolken on RUclips and it's not even the main focus of his channel, that's how hard you rock!
And he's fluent in Elvish. JSG is the GOAT.
"This bitch has been holding a grudge for 1300 years?"
That delivery was just perfect.
"There was a book?" -- J.J.Abram's little minions
😆
This needs many more likes.
"There were _books?!"_
We DidN'T HaVe AnY MAteRiaL To WoRK WitH!
“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”
― Ian Fleming, Goldfinger
Cheers.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
@@richardrose2606 "I know this saying. It's Russian."
- Ensign Pavel Andreievich Chekov, USS Enterprise
A more accurate quote to apply than the "evil creates nothing" one everyone is chanting. If only people really knew how much they really are in the middle of a war, and how much their enemy truly hates them.
@@richardrose2606 "fool me three times [sputters a bit] well I won't be fooled again"
-George W Bush "the idiot"
"Angry and brash warrior" is *totally* in-character for someone who's so gentle, wise, and beautiful that she had a *dwarf* fanboying over her. (Sarcasm, obviously)
Galadriel rejected the Valar and left the Undying Lands because she wanted to rule a realm in Middle-earth. By the time of the Third Age she was the mightiest of all remaining Elves, it makes perfect sense she participated in many battles to get that reputation.
@@JainaSoloB312 Right... wearing armour and a sword. Makes perfect sense.
@@JainaSoloB312
Well I am quite sure she's one of the remaining powerful and wise elves in the Third Age because she didn't lead armies and fight in front lines. 🤦 She avoided to be involved in those.
@@JainaSoloB312 you couldn’t be more wrong
@@JainaSoloB312 oh look, the bootlicker
Tolkein, and his son are spinning in their graves so fast that they're charging every phone battery in the eastern hemisphere.
They're drilling holes ar this rate
while the grandson is rolling in dirty cash!
@oky Stop spamming your religious music video links everywhere!
Their stories are immortal. Fanfics don't matter lol
They are even going to air the show on the day that Tolkien DIED!
I used to think I was a hard core Lord of the Rings fan, then I heard JSG speak elvish, and I didn't think that anymore. His ownage logic bombs are potent, powerful and drive home every single time. Terra I wish I could succinctly analyze things like this guy can.
Real Tolkien fan speak the tongue of Mordor you fool ! Sauron rules in this bitch 🔥 (just kidding of course, a fan is one who respect the work of the author , nothing more nothing less)
Same!!!
I remember a quote from Jackson before Fellowship came out. It's what made me dare to hope this adaptation might actually be good... He said, paraphrasing from memory... That he was adapting some of the greatest books ever written. His job, as a director, was to get out of Tolkien's way and let that story come through.
Which is advice for anyone adapting Tolkien's work: simply get out of his way
It seems Amazon could have avoided all this by just getting the rights to Elder Scrolls and making a show about that. It's got the name recognition, diverse peoples to explore, and they could be pretty loosey goosey with the story without messing with the lore too much. I think Netflix is supposed to be making a show about this but Amazon could have probably outbid them and Elder Scrolls would be a much better vehicle to make Amazon's version of Game of Thrones than Lord of the Rings which is what Amazon has admitted they are going for. But what do I know, I'm just Rocko's dog Spunky.
Hey... its Bethesda´s work to ruin TES, not anyone else XD
@@Daishi18 Come on, you know you wanna see a story about the Dragonborn but Lydia is actually the hero.
@@RockosdogSpunky they'd make her look like Jenassa and perform like Serana.
Hey, how is the modern life going?
I get your point but i hope they leave the elder scrolls alone tbh
I’ve been waiting for this one. Everyone else can blather on but just some guy is the expert
No, he's just some guy.
In a fantasy campaign he’d definitely be a powerful bard with an unmatched voice of reason and the power of truth that falters before no blade
I'm not a fan boy of things though I remember the things I loved as a kid. However I'm certainly glad there are guys like yourself who remember the magic and stick up for it. These things make up our memories. I appreciate you fighting the bull. Thanks for what you do. I subscribed. Thanks brother.
These 'writers' must have rejoiced when they heard of christopher tolkien's passing. The best defender of Prof Tolkien's work no longer present to protect it.
Sadly this seems to be the case.
yeah the same guy who hated peter jacksons films remember
Now it’s our turn to defend THE master of the Rings
@@paulelroy6650 I mean yes, but Peter Jackson's films still respected the source material and tried to do it justice even if you can argue about how well they adapted the books.
A single mom that's in a relationship with a black elf, that's not Tolkien that's what you expect from As the World Turns. What's next Calabrembor has an evil twin? Is someone gonna be in a coma for several episodes?
The absolute arrogance of these "writers" is beyond the pale. I have no doubt that they got participation ribbons all of their life, and no one was allowed to ever say that they sucked. I know I can't prove it but that's the only way to explain how anyone can say or think for a single second that they are a better writer than a literal literary genius.
As far as I'm concerned law den aniron.
It'll blow your mind when you meet Elronds evil twin brother!
@@newtpondskipper his name is Dnorle
@@HyperMoeMan "Mr. Anderson ..."
@@newtpondskipper Triplet, I don't think you can call Elros evil.
@@newtpondskipper He's not evil! He's just misunderstood!
"One does not simply infest a beloved work of fantasy with woke sjw tomfuckery".
- Chadomir.
That's a hilariously creative comment!
tomfuckery
I like this, I'm stealing it.
"Peter Jackson's trilogy is so good that not even Peter Jackson could follow it" nicely put JSG, and I am VERY jealous of your wealth of knowledge on Tolkien
I remember hearing that Jackson had to follow the trilogy books almost by the letter. Some sort of interview or something where he basically said that "the more they changed, the less sense it made. Even a little change would have big implications." If this is true, then you can imagine what all the changes to The Hobbit did.
We all saw the clips of how the poor man drove himself into utter exhaustion to deliver the quality product we all have come to love, and that was with an all star cast, the best people he could get and the love of the Tolkien fan community behind him. That was BEFORE all the identity politics dropped, so imagine how much MORE DIFFICULT it will be for someone to make something of quality now. I could be wrong, but I'm speculating that we are either gonna see 1 or more showrunner swaps on this show, or the writers and/or "revisionist Scholars" or gonna get rotated, which will mean the show will probably change its entire tone and/or pace, making it either a s**tstorm of stitched-together stories that will make no sense, or the most infested political nonsense you've ever seen on TV to date.
And there will be "Tolkien fans" that will celebrate this as the best Tolkien on screen they've EVER seen. I can GUARANTEE it.
he is not some saint, he almost blew it, just to be reeled back in by others : See going all the way through filming the fight with sauron at the black gate
Peter Jackson movies changed tons of the things from the books. You just weren't weird red pilled super nerds yet back in the early 2000s
Great vid. Re: Galadriel as being full of vengeance and leading armies - that was never her, and instead that's the role of Feanor, who she despised. And Tolkien made it clear that in the final great battle against Melkor none of the Noldor that followed Feanor back to Middle-Earth participated; the idea that Galadriel was engaged at that time and afterwards in hunting down "collaborators" is so at odds with the text it makes my blood boil.
Its dumb-wave feminism at work. For women to be "equal" they have to look/act like and eventually become the men in the story. Or realize that different people do different things. Morgana la Fey for instance is a nemesis of Arthur's but she doesn't need to fight him in a duel or swing a sword better than Lancelot to prove it. At best, the moronic writers are channeling Joan of Arc but apparently believe she too was a brash and young samurai master.
Joan of arc was the first thing i thought after seeing that picture of not galadriel
Yep, on one hand they hate men, on the other hand they seem to think only a man can be powerful and sculpt their female characters after them...they have no clue about anything...
Indeed, Galadriel had actually fled Beleriand even before the fall of Nargothrond.
When I heard the description of her, I thought Feanor was being described. It does not sound like her, not remotely.
"We will cast your show aside lest we be corrupted."
Well spoken.
I am not even going to touch that nonsense ..
At this rate Tolkien is spinning so fast in his grave he has relit the two trees.
"Le mal ne peut rien créer de nouveau, il ne peut seulement gâcher ou détruire ce que les forces du bien ont inventée ou créé." - J.R.R Tolkien.
Merci camarade français (perso j'ai juste traduis par '' le bien '' au lieu de '' les bonnes forces '')
Enfin !
_"Can we come up with the novel Tolkien never wrote....."_
That is cue for me to ignore the production by Amazon. For such beings of quaint tastes as I, if Tolkien did not write it, I shall have naught to do with it if it pretends to be Tolkienian. In the meantime, to phrase it in lowbrow parlance, "I love me some Silmarillion".
"Thousands of years younger" - as if that matters to the IMMORTAL elf-queen
She stopped aging like a gazillion years before there were humans but yeah, sure, she is younger than in the Lord of the Ring. Idiots, imbecils.
I mean if she was only a mere few hundred that would mean something
I keep having to point out, it's not racism when we react to companies making racist character changes in shows. It's not sexist when we react negatively to companies doing sexist gender swaps. They're accusing us of what they're doing and we keep treating it like they have a leg to stand on with that argument.
Yes; I saw a comment by an East Asian fan who said that when these writers take white characters and cast a non white actor, it seems like they want non white people to be white and to not have their own culture, but to just take on white culture. I thought that was a great point.
This is the dumbest fucking take I've ever read
Maybe you could explain what "racist" character changes Amazon made here.
@@swagromancer black elf. Why is there a black elf? There doesn't need to be a black elf yet there is a black elf. No hate towards the actor playing, but *why* does there have to be a black elf in the series? I'm sure he could do an amazing performance, but why? There's never been any mention whatsoever of a black elf in the books, so why did they need to make this change?
@@swagromancer wait, shouldn't a black elf be like an orc or something lol?
if this show was a “Tolkien inspired” Instead of being directly connected I probably would’ve been fully onboard with the show. I think the problem with making sequels/ prequels to massive ip’s is they spend too much time justifying their existence by trying to be different. I feel like the best “sequels” are heavily inspired works that are made by super fans.
I haven't heard many people point out the aesthetic of the sets and costumes yet but that was one of my biggest anxieties after the VF article dropped - the Jackson trilogy, though not perfect, succeeded hugely in embodying the sense of *reality* in the books. The Hobbit went in a somewhat more cartoonish direction, and the stills in the VF article DID remind me somehow of cosplay - bright and colorful and 'pretty' enough, but not like 'real' clothing/armor that people would actually wear. (The fact that you can see daylight through everyone's cloaks, for instance, makes me wonder why they're even wearing them?... certainly not to keep warm.)
Also, Khuzdul and Sindarin in the same video? Noice.
@Juggling Llama Productions Same with their Wheel of Time Show. Everythings looked far too clean and most clothing seem to be not "streetworthy" if you get my drift.
Nice to see you here. Your channel is great.
I expected this to be terrible; but they managed to surprise me with the flimsy, generic look of the costumes.
@oky go away, spam bot. Stop posting your bad videos onto unrelated videos for attention.
@oky go away, spam bot. Stop posting your bad videos onto unrelated videos for attention.
LoL the graphic of Game of Thrones with the horse drawings.... priceless.
I think Jackson did a near perfect adaptation. The changes mostly made sense. There are only a few changes that I feel made it worse, and even then not much. Few movies capture the spirit of a work like his films do.
The movies are so phenomenal, it’s unfortunate nothing has ever come out since that’s come anywhere close.
I think the biggest issue I had with the movies was the Elves in Helms Deep. Sending a Lothlorien elf to lead Rivendell elves. Confusing how they even met up or communicated.
The only rule with changes in adaptations is only make changes to suit the medium which Jackson’s trilogy did follow
I agree most of the changes such as dropping Tom Bombadil make sense for a movie format
Jackson had the other writers keeping him in check, he almost blew it during RoTK by putting Sauron in it, they even filmed it, just CGed the big troll Aragorn fights over top of Sauron
This feels very like watching toddlers smear finger paint all over the Mona Lisa and then present it back to us, self-satisfied and waiting for applause. Tolkien's writing is precise to the degree of fastidiousness. He chose his words with purpose and understanding to give life to his imagination and create a mythology for England that could, in some small way, replace the one that had been lost to history. We know what the characters and people of Middle-earth looked like because he told us in his novels and then again in his letters. It takes a peculiar degree of intellectual dishonesty to misrepresent his meaning the way I have lately seen published in the media.
I have always held deep reservations about the translation of Tolkien's work into a visual medium. I think the audience, inevitably, is robbed of the experience of creating his imagery internally and deprived of the sense of being swept away into a place of pure imagination. Peter Jackson's films did so with a degree of respect that I can agree make them valuable, particularly for those people who would otherwise never have experienced the story and now share in the joy of it. His adaptation was beautifully done - and yet still some part of me wishes it was never made. This 'thing' Amazon dares to pollute the words of Tolkien with is a vainglorious debasement of art.
But this isn't written for that type of audience. This is lowest common denomination level from what I'm taking away from this. I'm sure there will be an overabundance of profanity and nudity and no idea of how to use either for real effect. I'm old enough to remember real censors for music so that when the artist did say any profanity it was to emphasize their point and not just word filling.
I’m photographing this comment, frame it and hang it on a wall.
@@newtpondskipper There's gonna be a scene where like, elves are all being taken captive in chains or something and for some reason *they all just happen to be black* and their captors will be white goblins who act like morons, just to really drive home the point to our wonderful "modern audience".
The men will come up with a terrible rescue plan so the womens will do a better one. Then the stronk womens character will plan to team up with the black guy elf to defeat the oppressors who somehow captured them but are also stupid.
Theyll be struggling to defeat the hoards of goblins and the black guy elf will be like "Wait there's someone joining the battle!"
[Music crescendo and then mute for dramatic effect]
Then someone will shout "I see you needed backup!"
[Sudden camera pan with overused Inception earbleed noise]
The woman will come in riding one of them giant elephant things while her stupid animal-esque yet sentient sidekick that she found in the woods eating his own shit will pop into frame and make funny "owowowowow" noises and wave his arms about. (Her makeup and hair will be perfect as if she hasn't been in a massive battle and blood, dirt and fire haven't been flying everywhere.) They'll defeat the goblins.
It'll be a "groundbreaking" and "thought-provoking" scene that's "relevant to our time" and it'll get like 250 thousand likes on Twitter and the person who wrote the scene will be a hero and she'll create an onlyfans afterwards.
The men elves will try to take credit for the plan and thus a woman's work, then she'll like raise a knowing yet slightly annoyed "oh you silly men" eyebrow to another womens and they'll laugh about it because they do all the work and the males are incompetent but still arrogant because males.
The Blue Wizards will be gay (but not too much to be noticeable because they want that China dollar). The director will just say on Twitter afterwards that they're gay haha. They'll say it was a tribute to Gandalf's actor.
^ I wrote this in ten minutes and we all know that's going to be a scene in this 400 million dollar "re-imagining". It'll get a 100% "Fresh" Critic Rating on Rotten Tomatoes and get tons of awards.
@@Voidwurm1701 Of course it will. This is why I want Amazon to lose those billions they dumped into this for every season this show poisons the cultural sphere with its existence.
That might be the best analogy for woke messaging in our popular entertainment ever
"We will cast your show aside lest we be corrupted." Love it!
Tolkein is a legend. The writers of this show are creatively bankrupt hacks.
I wonder what happened to all the good writers that used to work in the business. Writing is probably the most important thing to a show or film's production because you can have great performances from the actors, good special effects, cool sets and costumes, ect... but if it's all in service to a terrible story then it's all for naught.
Just look at Babylon 5 for a prime example: the special effects and sets were kind of cheap looking even for the day and you could tell the show was really stretching the limits of its budget to try and make it all happen but the writing was so good the fans could overlook those flaws and just immerse themselves in the characters and the story.
What's really going on is that Amazon wants to use the Tolkien's brand to tell *transformed storylines* that promote their own POLITICS. That's 100% it! What they need to realize is that EVERYTHING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ABOUT POLITICS. And when you try to make it that, it simply destroys the quality of everything you do.
Peter Jackson movies changed tons of the things from the books. You just weren't weird red pilled super nerds yet back in the early 2000s
@@ANTIStraussian Oh, you mean like elves showing up at the Battle of Helm's Deep? Merry and Pippin just being portrayed largely as bumbling comedy relief characters who stumbled into the quest instead of the competent and brave friends who willingly helped Frodo escape from the Shire? Gimli frequently being shown as a comic relief character? Legolas single handedly taking down an Oliphant in a ridiculous CGI fest action scene? Arwen taking Glofindel's place? The idea that Frodo would "send Samwise home" over the lembas bread? Aragorn doing something as dishonorable as fucking chopping the Mouth of Sauron's head off when he was negotiating under a flag of truce? Treebeard has the Entmoot and decides NOT to go to war until he's pretty much tricked into it by the hobbits?
Tolkien fans, including myself, have had criticisms like this since the beginning. Where were you?
Peter Jackson did actually get some stuff wrong that I would have done differently but his efforts in the first trilogy are still the best we've seen so far.
And The Hobbit just never even should have been a trilogy in the first place. The Hobbit trilogy is pretty much unwatchable for me.
@@Strideo1 reread what I said. I am saying these people saying Peter Jackson movies were perfect and the new show will be terrible are forgetting people on usnet forums said the original trilogy changed things from the book.
I don't know why this makes me smile, but your pure investment, love, and dedication to the lore of Middle Earth is just strong enough to justify the sheer sass you level at these myopic woke-tards butchering the fanbase. And I love it, cuz you've earned it. Never stop, my dude.
Great comment.
The only question that needs to be asked is "Would Tolkien approve of this?".
The obvious answer is no.
he wouldnt have approved the pj films either.. but ofc you have a point
The obvious anwser is : you are children
@@fvefve12
Who are you to say that the estate is following Tolkien's wishes? Any understanding of Tolkien would say that he would not approve of the butchering of his works. You've made a ridiculous argument.
It's probably why they're doing it. We saw the do it with Stan Lee and wait for him to die to kick their art up to up to eleven. I know Tolkien has been gone for a while but my point is that they wait to deface.
RespectTolkienLegacy. Never see woke products. Never see Amazon trash series.
The motion has already been carried
No way in hell I’d watch that monstrosity of a series. Tolkien and his son are rolling in their graves.
Woke Progressives are traitors and criminals they should be in prison. #RespectTolkienLegacy
Only Pirate and watch the show illegally
I say we all stream the movies on the day this show comes out. Let’s see their faces when everyone watches the good stuff instead of this garbage.
I am so impressed by you! Well expressed. What I found upsetting is the 'joan of arc' armor on Galadriel -- she isn't a warrior princess.
The sad thing is that it's probably 10-20 years before we'll get another opportunity on a series or film made by someone else who actually cares.
Depends on who wins this current culture war in 10-20 years.
@@Supermanfan99 Nobody "wins" in this lunacy.
@@General_Griffin very true, it just becomes a paranoid isolated place...
I remember distinctly that dwarves in LotR lore are PROUD of their beards, regardless of gender. That they're praised for their intricate braiding styles, and that is a skill that the dwarves community cherish and admire.
And yet now, they have a clean shaven dwarf, who is telling us: Yo girls, don't conform to the patriarchy standard of beauty!
Even though Gimli once mentioned that there is no difference between men and women dwarves. That you could date one without knowing their gender until the dwarf decide to tell or show you (and this doesn't satisfy the lgbtq group???)
What is this? The next gender revolution? Are they trying to demand that next, for women to be powerful and independent, we should all shave our hair? (This is getting hypocritical, when women on tik tok are happily showing off their hairy armpits)
And hey, better yet, cancel and doxx all those hair braiding tutorials, how dare women waste their time on looking pretty on weddings and parties when we have better things to do?!
LOVED THIS
I think while dwarf boys and girls might be confusing to human eyes .. I rekon dwarves can probably tell the difference :)
@@markhill3858 pretty sure in LOTR Gimly tells Eowyn the story where Dwarves were panicking because they thought there are no dwarf women
@@rizkymubaroq3025 maybe, I dont remember that .. but if Dwarves really couldnt tell the difference .. theyd go extinct wouldnt they? or at least get very angry after weddings
Watching your videos regarding the Tolkien books/lore and talking about the show on Amazon, you're making me wanna buy the official books to finally read them!
I always love hearing you talk about LOTR. Loved the 20th anniversary stream of LOTR with you Gary and Robert. Hope you do more streams together when the show comes out.
They could not care less about Tolkien or his works and it's obvious. Name recognition is all it was about.
It's not just that they "dont care", they actively hate him and his legacy. The Rings of Power premiering on the day Tolkien died isnt coincidence
My first red flag was, just what I read a while ago. They filmed the first season in NZ. Then moved it all to the UK for season 2 onwards. In my mind that means more CGI and less actual real settings. Like LOTR to The Hobbit.
Don't worry about the lack of diversity in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. They're going to fix that in the remakes.
I'm sure the dwarves would have something again about fixing something that ain't broke.
They have lots of Tolkien minorities on deck.
Fix?? You meant destroy.
Oh thank God! I was ready to stick a fucking shotgun in my mouth, but now that elves and dwarves are black, I have a reason to live!!!!!! THANK YOU AMAZON!!!!!
Lord of the Rings has no remakes
Lord of the Rings needs no remakes
Really sad here because Tolkien's works gave me hope when I going through a rough time in my high school, and it could very well saved me from suicide. To see his works butchered and twisted is devastating. Kudos to you still remembering the details and called them out 👏
Same here. It was like a safe spot in all of that turmoil
The work you loved so much is still there and you shouldn't let what comes lessen the joy you took from the original work.
Hey it frickin sucks. Also really sorry you went through that.
We are seriously blessed to have Jackson's adaptations - I don't think i've ever watched a better adaptation. Also, there is an amazing series of narrated audiobooks on the fellowship, two towers and return - you should %100 check that out if you haven't already - They were on youtube last time I listened and have different voice actors and music from the film score - bluddy epic. I'm super pissed at how the source material and soul of the work is being treated (it's not just happening to LOTR either - Witcher was beyond butchered)
However, during our lifetimes we may be blessed again at some point by another faithful adaptation. Great works tend to get multiple adaptations over time.
Lol the only thing Tarhiel and Kili proved is that you can make an entire theatre laugh all together !
"Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” J.R.R. Tolkien
Not a real quote. Sorry.
One thing is sure - after this dumpsterfire I appreciate Jackson's Hobbit trilogy more than before.
That's a stretch... but okay.
It's like the Star Wars sequel trilogy made the prequels look like masterpieces.
@Jéster The main problem for me with Hobbit is kindergarten cgi compared to master level makeup in lotr. Just can't escape it.
@@litteliten4999 And now we have a cgi that looks even faker than the hobbit! xD
@@cierazeh3522 Yeah one thing is for sure, this new bo/ezos thing has nothing to do but the but name with lotr. It is leftist lunacy for small children.
How have I missed this channel for this long? Based content and straight fire!
They easily had the chance to explore actual black cultures in LOTR with the southern realms and easterlings, but instead decided to race spawn non human characters for some reason.
Plus what's the reason with removing beards from dwarves for no reason?
Yeah, I thought the whole thing with female dwarves was that they were indistinguishable from the males?
In fact, some people say that there are no dwarf women, that dwarves just spring out of holes in the ground!
Dwarves and beards are like Saturn and its ring, they should not be separated
There are no black cultures in LOTR Tolkien did not mention any.
@L.Sanc. Dark skin compared to the westerlings is just tanned and olive skinned.
In german:
Ich habe den Teaser gesehen und war entsetzt!
"Das Böse kann nichts Neues erschaffen, es kann nur korrumpieren und zerstören, was gute Kräfte erfunden oder geschaffen haben.“
J.R.R Tolkien
Wenn man woker Identitätspolitik eine Plattform geben will kreiert man eigene Geschichten aber fasst Tolkiens Lebenswerk nicht an!
Der Quotation ist falsch. Leute haben es einfach rumgesagt ohne zu gucken ob es echt ist! Die Leute hier die dieses falsche Quotation benutzen sind denklose Schafe. Die glauben sogar, dass dumme Showrunners wie Melkor und Sauron sind. Das ist positiv dumm.
Zu spät. Ich wette die schwarze und bartlose Zwergenprinzessin ist auch noch queer, mindestens aber schwul.
1 Milliarde USD für nichts. Meine Güte was man mit dieser Menge Geld für ein grandioses Epos schaffen könnte...
Danke
I truly appreciate your comments, I am a Canadian, and a white man who is 61 years old. I’ve been reading JRR Tokien’s works since I was a teenager, and to see someone of a different country, a different culture, appreciate the things that I appreciate, and be able to speak on the subject so well, proves that Tokien’s writing brings different cultures together. Thank you very much.
“Those that hate goodness are sometimes nearer than those that know nothing at all about it and think they have it.”
-C.S Lewis
Apparently the front guy in the elves vs orcs shot that looks like he's about to cry mid battle is Finrod. You're telling me that this guy is the same guy who fought Sauron in a battle of song or killed a werewolf with his bare hands to save Beren?
Also wtf is that armor, my God the helms.
I know that everyone is commenting this but it has to be said: "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made." - JRR Tolkien
I love the Silmarillion. Galadriel was never "brash and angry," that was Feanor. She was calculating and ambitious, maybe, but there's nothing that hints at her having any kind of 'hot' emotion. Plus, by this point she's thousands of years old, I think that's more than long enough for personality to settle.
Even if she was brash, it would have been during the First Age, when she was younger.
This video alone made me a subscriber. First video I’ve ever seen of yours. The collective hatred of this show brings us together. Mad respect.
It was the LOTR movies that got me into the books, and it was the books that inspired me to write and work on my own worlds. Politics in any form of media corrupts and destroys anything it touches. They took away Star wars and now they come for LOTR.
"Politics in any form of the media, corrupts and destroys anything it touches"
Political dramas :- "Me-sa disappearing".
Its not exactly politics but immorality, their political positions are pure evil and directed by the king of lies, and it is man's nature and said king for which corrupts all the good things, for as Tolkien said, (as I paraphrase because its everywhere here) evil cannot create anything new, it can only corrupt that which was made by the good forces.
Star trek, then star wars, then lord of the rings. This is another bad robot franchise destruction.
It wasn't politics that destroyed Star Wars, it was bad writing.
This is the best breakdown of the new trailer and all the chat afterwards that I've seen. Bravo!
Tolkien historian: "Shouldn't we try to keep it as close to the books as possible?"
Amazon Showrunner: "Psh! You think people have actually read these books?? Get the $%^# outta here!"
That's what it is yeah, they bought the rewriting of Tolkien's work and world. For ideology's sake of course.
Peter Jackson movies changed tons of the things from the books. You just weren't weird red pilled super nerds yet back in the early 2000s
@@ANTIStraussian It was adapted to a movie yeah, but P. Jackson stayed faithful to Tolkien's work and what is behind it. And that's what he was aiming for, there's that famous interview where he explains he will pour no message in it other than Tolkien's. That's basic humility. But here? We hear such things as "improving upon Tolkien's work", "a story that Tolkien could have written", and we get 1500 years condensed into a few, rewriting of characters, ideology pushed all over the place... It will have nothing to do with what Peter Jackson did.
@@lumierenoire4154 by ideology do you mean ew girls and black characters
@@ANTIStraussian For example black characters just for the sake of having black representation, while that brings nothing to the story you tell or the world you depict, even taking out from Tolkien's well established world where every race, their colors, their location at what period, their migrations, were well thought and have a meaning and a reason, just for the sake of shouting to our faces their political views from the real world. We don't care about it, it has nothing to do there, and that's just using a source material, whatever it is, to get THEIR message and THEIR views across, and has nothing to do with Tolkien, is disrespectful towards him, his work, the fans, and just shows how narcissistic they are.
You know, after watching other YT creators' videos and reading the comments - most of them said that PJ's Galadriel is scarier and more intimidating than full-armor Galadriel of ROP. That's how you create strong, intimidating woman without actually making her look physically strong and out of place/ lore.
Knowing that an enemy that knows everything and will use it against you is more terrifying than any look could be
Feminine grace and beauty can be more powerful than an army of men as well
By not making them look and act like men? Perish the thought!
@@ironhelix306 unrelated but...Seeing Gina Carrano in the Terror on the Prairie trailer, goddamn, she really fits the portrayal of 'strong woman of the American frontier' and 'wild west lady/mother with a rifle that you don't wanna mess with'.
@@mimicinabox2547 The woke cult really gets lost with the reality that men and women are infact different. That together complement each other and that slaps them (the woke cultists) in the face.
It is why their strong whamen act and look like men. The only thing they can comprehend is strength and power is masculine and violent.
It is why Amazon failed so hard with The Wheel of Time Series. (Possible spoilers?) As the underlying theme of Jordan's series is what is possible with the two halfs of the One Power (magic in that world), Saidin and Sidar work together and the adventure is basically the result of what happens when they do not.
Interestingly I think the WoT series is somewhat allegorical to our current political situation regarding men and women. How our politics are being used to corrupt our culture and cause strife, divisiveness and confusion between the sexes.
"Zło nie jest w stanie stworzyć niczego nowego, może jedynie zniekształcać i niszczyć to, co zostało wymyślone lub stworzone przez siły dobra” J.R.R. Tolkien
When Tolkien started writing this story, he had a specific target audience in mind. You ready to learn who?
His kids. That's right, he wrote these stories for his children. And when he died before finishing it, Christopher took up his fathers pen and spent time going over his father's notes so we might be able to read the Silmarillion.
That is not true. The Hobbit was written for children, the Silmarillion and the stories that were eventually incorporated into it were not. He did send chapters of Lord of the Rings to Christopher as he wrote them, but Christopher was an adult (and a pilot in the RAF fighting in WW2) at that time. But the Silmarillion was begun during WW1, before he even had any children.
Yes, for his children as in „the next generation“, not for little kids (except the Hobbit)!
He did write Roverandom for one of his kids. That's a fun read.
@Professor Thinker yup. He also wrote about being disappointed with the way Fairy stories were being considered a genre for children.
@@radagast7200 - He was also disappointed when people took his work too seriously. These people getting all bent out of shape and outraged about these changes being made to movies BASED off his work, he probably would care less.
Question: if this is a prequel to LotR and this show is super "diverse" then that would mean that there was some ethnic cleansing between the two series?
so that's why the shires so nice
Yes, the Hobbit division Das Shire gets mentioned in appendix LXXXVIII, line 14.
/s, of course.
Amazon : we now present to you, Beethoven's fifth symhpony
(... The first 8 notes, followed by 10 minutes of rap/hip-hop accompanied by diverse breakdancers, and ending with the 8 starting notes again.)
Beethoven fans : WTF Amazon ????
Amazon : What's wrong with you Beethoven fans ? Don't you know European classical music should be more like nowadays American showbizz , and more diverse ? Are you all bigots or what ?
(and moreover we only have the rights to the first 8 notes)
I have been waiting eagerly for this. I'm deeply saddened at how amazon is treating the lore of LOTR.
At least we have the books and the original film trilogy.
Acknowledging the fool is so passe
We have the option to ignore what they say and act like this doesn’t even exist
This Version of Galadriel doesn’t look like she spent much time in Melians school of wise queens.
Also Elrond does not in any way look like he would be a great grandson of Luthien much less Idril. He looks like the adoring fan NPC from the Oblivion game.
Oh my god. I can't unsee the adoring fan Elrond now...
"O mal não pode criar nada de novo, só pode distorcer e destruir o que foi inventado ou criado pelas forças do bem." - J. R. R. Tolkien
Been waiting for you to torch this my dude. Thanks man!
This show is doomed, they have everything to guide them, they have the books, they have the experts who understand the work and they have the money to make it.
And they decide they're going to go the opposite way, they decide that activism is the most important thing, honestly I've seen it so many times that I don't even feel angry anymore.
It's just boring on this stage. The best one I've heard is that black elve will be in relationship with a single mother. You just can't make this up.
This just shows that apathy is worse than ignorance, they are far from ignorant, they are very aware what they are doing wrong, that's why they pin the blame on the fans. Their self-awareness of the shit their doing is probably the worst thing about this. Their willing to decay absolutely everything good and fun without any remorse by *legal* means.
This is the evil of Melkor that Tolkien had warned us about. It very much exists, just not in the fantasy way.
Come on fellas, there are going to be some big laughs a head. The leftist loony is monty python funny.
@@litteliten4999 It'd be funnier to see them die off soon, not literally but just watch them collapse upon themselves with their self-destructiveness. That'd might take a long time.
Peter Jackson movies changed tons of the things from the books. You just weren't weird red pilled super nerds yet back in the early 2000s
Shippey had the same training as Tolkien from the same institutions. He was only protecting his legacy. This makes me look forward to seeing what he had to say on the matter.
I took a course on Literature of the Vikings with Dr Shippey years ago, and I was impressed with his scholarship, worldliness and integrity. If Amazon removed him, it was guided with the opposite values.
I don't know why people get so hung up on Shippey. Yeah, it's a shame he was removed from the project, but he did violate his NDA. That mistake was on his part.
This reminds me how much I love Rohan's aesthetic in the Jackson film. This show is going to make the films even better by proximity.
"Is there any hope, Gandalf, for this Amazon show?"
"There never was much hope. Just a fools hope."
They are basically using the name by using it's parts of it's lore as a skeleton to built their own version and interpretation of the whole thing like they've done it countless times to lure the fans.
Y'know I'd love to see you start a new channel focused on LOTR lore, your passion for it is self-evident and I'd love to hear your summarizations along with your insightful commentary. Love your channel, keep up the good work, and if you find yourself in southern Colorado I'd be honored to buy you a pint!
clearly someone forgot to tell the showrunners about the haradrim and the easterlings. two cultures that we (as far as i am aware) know very little of, the former being north african/middle eastern ish if i'm not wrong and the latter having been portrayed as a splice of persian, japanese and chinease. they are ripe for exploration, their cultures pre and post saurons influence with the lingering taint of morgoth ever present and ever damning.
Thank you! Finally, someone gets it!
The Easterlings were described as olive skinned with straight dark hair and the Haradrim described as brown or dark skinned with dark eyes and black hair. So yea if they wanted the racial diversity route that would be the way to go. The Haradrim don't have any mention during the second age from what I remember but Khamul one of the Nine was an Easterling, I expect we will see the 9 as Men before they are corrupted so we might see a little bit of them.
I agree totally and commented as such on the actual Amazon trailer - however they most likely wouldn't consider doing that as that would portray Black actors as representatives of evil empires, and we all know that would be against the script. Instead they will change Tolkien's vison to suit their own story. To me its now a fanfic and I wont be watching it. Shame.
I have an inkling the "mysterious character" that the Harfoots are supposed to introduce into the story is Tom Bombadil. Who in the Second Age would be a "mysterious lost man" if not Iarwain Ben-Adar? I cringe at the thought of what antics the show runners are going to have him perform to suit the wicked tastes of their one-eyed master Bezauron.
it wouldnt be a terrible stretch if they are from the race of Men who are ancestors to the stoor Hobbits.It is possible for them to be just a little bit shorter than everyone else
I was patiently waiting for this video and it did not disappoint! I'm honestly looking forward more to the Two Towers anniversary live stream Nerdrodic is planning (hopefully you'll be on that one too), the last one was you guys did was amazing!
Been waiting all fookin day for this video get em just some guy
I watched one video of your videos and I subbed. Utmost respect for your wit and passion for LOTR.
"O Mal não é capaz de criar nada novo, ele consegue apenas corromper e arruinar o que forças boas inventaram ou fizeram." 🇧🇷
Até aqui tem br nessa porra irmão? Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Translated: "Evil isn't capable of creating something new, it is only capable of corrupting and ruining what the Good has done and created."
@@albenizaesdrassousa9421 I got the message my friend :) i was just commenting on how surprised i was to find a kinsman who follows this channel :D
@@erickvieirasenson7862 Brasil tá em tudo que é canto, irmão sksksksksksk
Exato chara.
"Зло не может создать нечего нового, оно может только испортить и разрушить то, что изобрели или создали добрые силы" - J.R.R.Tolkien
Don't know how to read Cyrillic but I know that quote.
@@wezzy9437 you can use google to translate. "Evil cannot create anything new, it can only spoil and destroy what good forces have invented or created."
я не знал что он сказал по русский
Can anyone tell me why this qoute is always written in Cyrillic?
@@gurke-schurke9820 Because on a normal day, plenty of russian folk online are on edge about anything diversity related, race and machism is a big thing in their culture (and often turns them racist and pro-imperial as public debate is state sponsored toxicity in this topic) even communists (which were not supposed to be racists) organized their land and plenty of politics based on race and did some racial genociding.
Plenty of russians have more nuanced views of course, despite the state loudspeakers. Which I am guessing are booming at this show, just english RT news has dozens of pieces on this show. Online, when talking about the possible Ukraine invasion, I've seen the odd few russian nationals say "Yeah, let's get them, let's kick woke demoracies off of the globe".
This time, for once, they share a few valid logical points with reasonable people. Though, for a few, for the entirely wrong reasons.
I agree. I've been reading Tolkien almost every year since the 70s. I'm so dissapointed in the direction Amazon is going.