The 8-Bit guy is also related to Dime Bag Darrell and Vinnie Paul Abbot from Pantera. He mentions that in a video (possibly on his 8 Bit Keys channel) where he is demonstrating a drum pad with drumsticks given to him by Vinnie Paul.
“The garage is a bit of a myth,” Wozniak told Businessweek. “We did no designs there, no breadboarding, no prototyping, no planning of products. We did no manufacturing there.”
@@eduardolarrymarinsilva76 the interview is behind a paywall, but what I found online is Wozniak saying he designed the Apple I at the offices of Hewlett Packard.
@@eduardolarrymarinsilva76 I'm pretty sure they used the garage as a sort of makeshift HQ for when Woz and Jobs and Co. started to ship out the first of the Apple computers to the store or company they had sold them to. Also, I think Woz did SOME amount of testing there with Jobs watching on anxiously. But mostly I think it was just a used as a meeting spot in the early days before they got funding.
That one is in a tight Venn diagram spot of your interests : historically significant, 8 bit, Apple and 6502. It's unfortunate how expensive it was to put together, but thanks for showing how it worked, that was my first glimpse into its usability.
Oh you must have lived in the same area grandparents are from 😂 As a kid i always imagined how horrid life must have been. Permanently the middle of winter, when you go to school barefoot the school is on top of the hill, then by the afternoon a landslide has caused the school to slide down and somehow tow up your house to the top of the hill, then when you get there instead of dinner you get given a sickle and have to somehow cut all the hay and bundle it up before bedtime despite it being under a foot of snow 😂 its fascinating how the mind works, only remembers the shittest parts of the story and moulds it into a semi coherent timeline that you remember forever. Much like for myself, where it was always summer, the hard waste collection was every week and i spent all day everyday bringing home 8bit computers from peoples nature strips and playing with them 😂😂😂 (realistically that was probably three summers in a row between the ages of 9 and 12, but it seemed like an eternity for me, and i miss it haha)
Apple then: Socketed ICs, scematics in the manual, extra circutry to support alternative components. Apple now: Can you make a slightly modified version of that component and sell it exclusively to us so nobody will be able to replace it?
@@crunch9876 Not that I'm a huge shill or anything, but most laptops and phones now you can't open without voiding the warranty. Not a practice restricted to Apple alone.
@@Cobalt985 IIRC, in the US at least, there was a recent court case that ruled that those "warranty void if broken" stickers that essentially prevented you from opening a computer were not legal and warranties could not be nullified over that.
Ahh, back when Apple was actually happy to provide you with the full schematic instead of defending their right not to give it to anyone outside of their own technicians.
@@lidge1994 what Apple dose now is what all tech companies do now. You do not want a schematic for a MacBook Pro for all the reasons. It's not basic like a Radio or TV.
@@pyeltd.5457 "You do not want a schematic" is a false assumption. The people who typically want these schematics are either curious, or need the information to repair their devices (or repair devices on behalf of others). While Louis Rossmann's channel appears to have somewhat... changed in direction since last I checked, 'back in the day' the channel's main feature was repairing dead computers.
In the past I've been an IT field engineer working on EPOS devices and this takes me back to the days when we would repair boards at the customers location right down to replacing diodes and transistors or looking for dry joints - great video as always thank you
I had always imagined that the Apple 1 was just a less advanced version of the Apple II. Turns out I was right! In the same way that a sharp rock tied to a stick is a less advanced version of a chainsaw! It's amazing how much people were able to do with these early computers!
I don’t think it’s entirely accurate to say the Apple 1 is a less advanced Apple II. That’s similar to saying the Genesis is a less advanced version of the Neo Geo or a Macintosh. They all share the same CPU but 95% of the rest of all those computers are completely different. The Apple 1 clearly has an entirely different way of generating video and also has no sound apparently.
The terminal already existed. The Apple I was not designed as a computer. It was putting the computer, the microprocessor and DRAM, on the motherboard rather than calling one of the 6 far-away ARPAnet computers that the terminal had been used for. A lot of things that might be considered deficiencies were because of this 'quick' approach to show off how a modern computer should be. This was shown well before Steve Jobs knew it even existed, and all the designs were handed out freely with no copyrights. But the real machine, which would be Apple's only successful product for the first 10 years, was the Apple II, which was a computer design from the ground up. The Apple II was being shown before we ever shipped an Apple I. Also note that at this time (1975) other attempts at affordable computers had mainframes with switches and lights and the far too expensive Static Ram. It was easy to copy an Intel data sheet but you needed real engineering for a useful affordable computer.
The Apple I PC boards were assembled and wave soldered for $13 at the place which manufactured the raw PC boards. Only a few were hand assembled, part by part, at home.
*Tech tip:* On those carbon comp resistors, check the values with a meter before installing and soldering them. Back in the late '70s/early '80s at work I discovered that a large number of them had absorbed humidity from the air and drastically changed values. If you soldered them it sealed the moisture in, but if you first baked them for a while in an oven it dried them out and returned them to within tolerance again. They could then be soldered in and the value stayed correct. This was at an electronics manufacturer, with large quantities of components on reels for automated insertion, so it was probably worst-case for a problem like this.
That's a good point (although I didn't know the mechanisms of their drift). However here resistors are probably mostly used as pullups or similar functions where the value really doesn't matter. And a side note, in previous episodes David has mentioned he is colorblind and _can't_ read the codes, so chances are he used a meter here.
@@eDoc2020 Thanks for your comment about my comment! My main reason for mentioning it was literally a Tech Tip, something I'd run into in my career that most people wouldn't experience, but make them aware of the circumstances so if they do hopefully they'll catch on to it quicker. I'm sure there might be other reasons why carbon composition resistors might drift out of tolerance, simply aging is one. I totally agree on the fact that in this case the tolerances don't matter as much, especially if they are all the same value and things are therefore balanced out. In my case the resistors were being used in a 555 timer circuit as a power-on reset to the CPU board, and being out of tolerance screwed up the timing and made the 555 not do its job. We baked some resistors pre-installation to fix the current batch of boards, then had an engineering change to use a metal-film resistor in future boards. As for David being colorblind, I can slightly sympathize. After years of working with color-coded resistors and other components, I discovered I see a few colors differently than most. When I took a color-blindness test where you look at the colored dots in a circle, you're supposed to make out a pattern of one number if you're "normal" and another if you're color-blind. Well, I saw a third number in the pattern! Confused the doctor a bit .
Fascinating. But wait, how does soldering them "seal the moisture in" (or out)? Does moisture somehow travel up the metal leads? I don't see how that aspect could possibly be true. The rest makes sense, but surely the moisture transfers through the casing? Probably over long periods, so it would seem like they become "locked in" once baked. Also, a typical home will have better climate control than a warehouse, so they probably remain stable under consumer use, just not in warehouse storage. I bet it has nothing to do with soldering at all, but the baking prior to soldering part does make sense.
@@Havron This was 40+ years ago, and wasn't something that went through a detailed scientific analysis by any means. So far as I/we could tell at the time, it was the carbon composition (think granules packed together) that was porous enough to allow humidity to get in and affect the material. I think the majority of the casiing was coated, something like varnish. Where the resistor leads attached to the body may have been the point of entry, and the heat of soldering was high enough to seal it regardless of the state of the carbon comp inside. So a lower heat over time returned the material to the proper consistency if the moisture was allowed to escape prior to the soldering. Note that the "warehouse" was a manufacturing shop floor, heated in winter but not air conditioned in summer, so the longer the resistors were in the environment the more chance of gaining humidity. Again, this situation was just the right set of circumstances to (1) have the resistors exposed to the humidity long enough, and (2) needing a tighter tolerance on the resistance value in the circuit. After finding multiple cases of the parts being out of tolerance, replacing them with others that were also out the same way, we started looking for why, and how to resolve it. If I recall they may have dumped the reel of problem resistors and just bought a fresh supply; baking a small batch to tide us over until the new ones arrived. They were relatively inexpensive, after all.
@@bobblum5973 Yep, that all makes sense. I agree, the point of entry probably was the edges of the casing near the leads, and I had not considered the potential sealing effect of the heat from soldering nearby. That could very well have been a factor. Thanks for the glimpse into resistor manufacturing, quite interesting!
I was born in ‘97, and while I enjoy the power and convenience of modern computers as much as the guy, I often find myself dwelling on how envious I am of those that got to experience the development and release of the first few generations of personal computers. It’s so fascinating to me that in these days it was completely plausible to DIY a contemporary home computer that could keep up with the rest of them if you knew what you were doing. These days building a PC, as much fun as it is, it’s like if you got a lego set where the individual blocks had already been assembled into chunks of the final design and you just have to make a few connections to finish it. I wish I could have been there for the days when people designed and built their own computers from scratch, the only pre-assembly having been manufacturing the chips and electrical components.
We're basically the same age and I feel this; I always like seeing prototypical, nonstandardized methods, means, and technology before it's codified and super convenient. I'm not much of a computer guy though, but computers from the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s are interesting because they're much different even from 10 years ago for the 00s. To think you needed a physical disk to start a computer, the internet was connected to the phone, and social media would be carried out on Usenet. Of course I'm jumbling together the different eras, but the paradigm shifted about 12 years ago and it feels alien looking back.
You might be interested in working with microcontrollers then. The embedded world is pretty similar to what you're talking about - lots of choices for MCUs, sensors, I/O, etc. and you basically put them together to get exactly the system you want. You can pick up a kit with an Arduino, some breadboards and wires, a bunch of sensors, and a project book that walks you through everything for less than $100. Once you're familiar with how everything works, you can step out of the Arduino world and start working with bare chips and custom circuit boards. You don't need much in the way of coding or electronics knowledge to begin with, although the more of those you pick up the more you can do with your projects. I suspect I got the job I have today because of my tinkering around with microcontrollers in my shed. I work in industrial automation and while I don't design circuits, I have to be able to read and understand technical drawings and schematics and program PLCs. The skills I learned playing with microcontrollers gave me the edge over the other applicants that only had IT skills.
@@jeffspaulding9834 Microcontrollers are pretty boring. They are far too ready made today. You basically need TTL (or newer CMOS 74XX) plus discrete components to make it interesting, at the hardware level.
Just to correct one of the first statements you made: 200 Apple I's were known to be produced, 63 are known to still exit (edit: exist), and out of those, only 6 are known to be in full working condition.
"Hey, 'member when OS manuals had the full source code in them?" "... No. I was not born then." Wow, that must've been such a joy for nerds of the time!
At least with Linux you get the full source code today. But that's not the full computer. Open source bios is not a common thing. Or graphics card drivers.
@@xeridea Yeah, I've watched a few of Rossman's videos... To a degree, I can understand why they wouldn't want to help mere mortals like little molecular biologist me just sticking in whatever chip I can find for the fun of it, but their mistrust of independent repair shops is just insane.
Yet there are still people alive.... just.... who worked on the very first electronic computers ever. My grandad passed a way a few years ago, and he was a computer programmer in the Royal Navy in to 50's when "computer programmer" wasn't a term that was used.
Ohmite still sells carbon comp resistors which is nice! I used a ton of them recently on my replica SCELBI. It definitely makes a difference aesthetically :D
@Lmao Die Carbon composition resistors are an old school style of resistor. It's basically made of a compressed carbon-based material. I don't know the full composition. You can identify these by the perfect cylindrical shape with a sharp cut off at each side. Modern resistors tend to be either carbon film or metal film. These are made by winding a film into a cylinder. These are the modern resistors with slight buldges at each end and a smooth transition to each edge. They're cheaper to make and I believe easier to make precise. But carbon composition still works alright.
Nice video! Point of order: there was almost no manufacturing done by Woz or Jobs in the garage. Woz dispelled that myth a long time ago. In an interview he stated very little was done in the garage.. it was just a 'place to go' for two guys in a new business with no money for offices. IIRC the boards had sockets and some other components wave soldered by the manufacturer (NTI, etc) and then they were stuffed later on, often by helpers.
Although, Daniel Kottke, and many others said they DID manufacture boards in the garage. Also Chuck Peddle himself also said they were making boards in Jobs's garage. In fact, Chuck said he had to go to the garage and help re-design the Apple 1 because it wasn't working. Most likely much of the Apple 1 is based on the KIM-1 besides the video circuit, which Paul Tyrell said that he heard the video circuit was based on one of HP's terminals projects. What everyone agrees on is that Woz was not in the garage much, but Jobs and the rest of the gang were there.
@@deckard5pegasus673 It depends whose account you read. There are some accounts they were stuffing/repairing the boards in the garage, yes, but they weren't soldering 1000 individual joints by hand for every board as David suggested. The boards were 100% wave soldered.
@@dreadpiratesidebeard9471 The wave-soldering may have been done when they were falling behind. Also PCBs were made by Atari, as Jobs asked a friend at Atari. Woz's versions of the story are different from other's peoples. For example Woz says he bought the 6502 from Chuck Peddle, when Chuck Peddle specifically said it was Jobs, not Woz, who bought the first 6502 from him. Anyhow, they're details, ...or "points of view" ... people live things differently or remember them how they like. But Woz definately deserves a hell of a lot more credit, than he was given
@@deckard5pegasus673 There are multiple sources including the folks over at Applefritter that say they were wave soldered the whole way through for the sockets. No idea on other components like resistors. I was a year old so I can't verify of course :). But I think that makes sense.. it would have been far too labour intensive to hand solder all those sockets. Not to mention the risk of mistakes. I'll have to try digging around for more authoritative sources but that seems to make the most sense.
I remember going to one of Steve Wozniak's lectures at Miami University in 2018 with my mother. He mentioned extra tidbits of the Apple I previously unknown to nerds like myself! It was an epic experience! And with this being my senior year there, I am going to walk on the same stage that the legend stood on for my graduation ceremony!
Totally agree, I very much appreciate 8BitGuys effort in putting this together - but also very thankful to now know my C64 can emulate an Apple 1. (although unfortunate about the lack of tape support - perhaps someday that will get added in) Hopefully backspace works though! :) "didn't wire up the backspace yet", oh my!
Wow. This episode really brought it all together. Returned to the absolute core of Apple’s mighty imperium today, presented perfectly nerdy from a gorgeous new studio. Hats off to you, 8-Bit Guy!
Your content is next level. This style of old school computer hobby is nearly nonexistent nowadays. I appreciate this insight into what made computing fun in that era.
@@vizionthing That is an incredibly unfair assessment. Yes, Woz was the engineer, but without Jobs, he would have given away the Apple I for free, and nothing else would have come of it. Jobs was a visionary in the sense that he could see potential in things and get other people to make it a reality.
oh my, that altair 8800! my dad learned on one, he has a ton of parts for one, almost a complete set, we have been meaning to put it all together and get it working. thats so cool!
1978 in South Western Ontario Canada I started a short lived computer company called Mack Computers. We resold and customized MIPS and other early machines. Should have kept the name, if I did, I imagine i would have got a butt load from Apple to buy it as it was before they had the Macintosh or iMac computers. Oh those were the days. I still have the solder burn scars.
Wooden keyboard stands made me smile sincerely, because it really had to match the style of those years. =) Thank you so much! Very interesting videos !!!
13:53 It was very satisfying when you loaded basic, and that hex code was installed on those circuits that took a long time to assemble to come to life.
This was extremely interesting. I didn't know the Apple I board had basically a separate terminal and CPU section, and also it was interesting to understand how the shift registers really worked.
if you got half a million dollars in the bank you can buy an apple one or you can make an apple one replica for a whole lot less and the upside is it's brand new so it will last a whole lot longer to boot due to being brand new parts
I got to play Hunt the Wumpus on a friend's real Apple 1. This led me to buy a KIM-1 and soon later a Rev-0 Apple 2. I loved that Apple 2 but was eventually lured away to the recently available IBM PC. (As a IBM employee I got a good price.) I continued to play with the Apple but my attention went mostly to the IBM. I still owe a lot to the Apple as it lead me into a career with computers. Those were the good days weren't they? PCs were more fun in those early'ish years. Then the internet came along and I started noticing it wasn't as much fun as it had been earlier.
Can't agree with you more...back then computing was more of an adventure into a new, unknown realm. Now it's old hat and it's super rare to find anything new to get excited about :(
@Russel Brooks: "Then the internet came along and I started noticing it wasn't as much fun as it had been earlier." Yeah. And I know why that is, and it's not the Inet, exactly.
I'm not sure which came first - Star Trek or Empire. Both seem to have gotten started in 1971. But certainly Star Trek gained wide popularity long before Empire.
yep, and Hammurabi, the other one he showed. You could buy both those games plus a couple of others together in a "Games Pack" on cassette for the TRS-80 model I at Radio Shack early on. Of course they go back much farther.
Awesome post! I am a software guy who learned programming on an Atari 400 in 1981. As a teen I used to create games using BASIC and 6502 machine language. At 58 I still make a living creating software.
OMG this looks like a fantastic build! thank you for enduring and sharing the final result with us! I can't believe Woz just figured this all out by reading part info sheets and scribbling schematics into a notebook.
Man, I really love the new studio. I also think your office/workbench makes a great set. Although you would have to solve the audio issues and figure out a way to film without reflections in your glasses. But man, I hope you film in that room also.
Indeed. I knew a 1,000 people would be pointing this out. But there was nothing I could do. First time filming in this location. I didn't notice the issue until editing and it was too late to re-shoot that scene because I had already soldered to the PCB. So I'll just have to see 1,000 comments about it. You won't see it in future videos.
@@The8BitGuy as any cinematographer knows, reviewing every reel of footage, make you better / excellent to see the genesis of Apple here .. now my brother + I can finally .. not be afraid to start building our own. you took away the pain of worry. the unknown can be so crippling .. for often no (practical) reason.
@@The8BitGuy nahhh… keep focusing on great and interesting content Most of viewers don’t really care about those details. Remember: “Expensive photography gear doesn’t make you a better photographer”.
That was excellent, really enjoyed it. I missed that era of computers so hearing about it and seeing some of the technical stuff is great. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure you already noticed the glare on your glasses, I wear glasses and hate it when that happens. I have no idea how to fix it but hey still a great video. Thanks!
@@The8BitGuy Cut out a high quality wood case for it, forgot what name of the wood that was put on appliances of the 70s but if you make one good enough with the wood,
It's important to remember the time and to compare it against the available competition. The Altair 8800 inspired Wozniak to design what would become known as the Apple I because he knew that he could do better and he did.
I enjoyed this episode! I have never dug that deep into the Apple I before, I always knew it existed but I never knew how it was used, so this was my first view into it, so it was very educational for me. So weird seeing that you actually had to manipulate the memory by hand basically. I think you did well on this, it sounded like you had a lot of trouble making this but I personally really liked it!
@@KoopaMedia64 ...did he have to? We're talking about technology from the 1970s here, of course it isn't going to have practical use today. You could say the same thing about virtually any other computer he talks about on here.
@@MrEightThreeOne in his review of the PE6502 hobby computer, he concludes that the Apple 1 is a terrible computer mainly because it’s so limited in what it can do, that’s what I was referring to.
Fry's was great, I only got to visit a couple of them but walking around the sales floor was amazing before 2010. Probably would have been even cooler back in the 2000s and 90s
@@jr2904 Fry’s was great but when I worked there I lost all respect and never saw them the same again. They wanted me to wear a suit, tie, dress slacks, dress shoes and look like I’m selling stock when in reality I was helping parents buy their kids video games. That’s not even the worst of it. There were so many layers of management just at the store level alone. After working there for a couple weeks I finally found out who my boss was.
@@Kylefassbinderful sounds like Kmart in the 70s and 80s. My cousin used to bounce around the Midwest every 2 years until they eliminated all of the micromanagement in 1987.
i got into computers with the apple 2e. at the time i remember that feeling of acomplishment when you spent 4 hours typing in code from the monthly magazine knowing when you got done it was only going to survive till you shut off the system. still worth it. couldnt afford the floppy drive at the time.
Ya know what I enjoy about your videos? You don't have any music in your background, you're not over the type, zangy, quirky, high energy. You are very calm, direct, and well spoken and address your points and knowledge in an very enthusiastic way. You remain grounded while showing clear passion for what you do. I hope it's not weird to say. But I sincerely wish there were more personalities like you on RUclips. I've learned so much about PC's from you that I didn't know before and the way they are getting introduced to me really reminds me of being a kid and hearing my father or grandfather share their hobbies and interests with me. Don't stop doing what you're doing man. You're surely a treasure.
I hadn't noticed he hasn't really spoken about the Amiga. But then again he hasn't spoken about the ST either. He has looked at some IBM PC stuff and clones...so we can't say it's because he's the "8 bit" guy.
Very good! I convinced my Dad in the late 70s to buy a Heathkit 25" color TV with a lot of advanced features, and when it showed up in umpteen boxes looking nothing at all like a TV, other than the picture tube, he said "Are you sure you know what you're doing?" "Sure!" :) When it came time to plug it in, I prayed hard that the magic smoke stayed where it belonged. It did :) He used that TV forever! And it really was advanced. Memories. Thanks!
It's especially interesting to see how the terminal side is like a separate brain, like the legs of an octopus. Also, it's amazing that the board was designed to work with different types of chips. Those solder pads are like a geeky, lo-fi version of jumper pins and boxes.
holy hell that little image you threw up, with the Apple II and little composite monitor? that was _exactly_ the first monitor I had. _Exactly_ it. on my c64. it's green phosphor if anyone is wondering.
Man, the Wozmon prompt really reminds of the time I tried to write my own "programming language" in Borland Delphi 3 when I was about 10. My dad was a professional programmer, and I LOVED video games, so I was desperate to get a look at how they worked. The thing I made was basically a very simple string parser, likely horribly inefficient, but you could do a bunch with it. I basically read through one of those huge manuals you used to get for Delphi and wrote a shorthand for each command that was mapped to a bigger file with the full commands in it. So you had two text boxes in the program (I think it ran on Windows 95), and you could type in a shorthand code in one, and the full command to execute in the other. So then if you entered that shorthand code again, it would look up what the full command was and run it. So for example, I had "pd" (play doom) mapped to launch Doom, and "ptr" (play tomb raider) mapped to launch Tomb Raider, for example. Today I'm a university lecturer teaching programming, so I guess that early dabbling was worth it. I just wish I could find the old hard drive it's on and take a look at my clumsy code XD
Reminds me of university days when a friend was taking a compiler course, as in the project was writing your own compiler. We touched bases about once a week and he explained his current progress. Mad respect to compiler developers.
This brings back memories! I put together an Apple II computer kit from a bare board. At the time I couldn't afford the factory assembled computer (yes, I am that old). Later I upgraded it from cassette memory to floppy disks. I made the case for the computer and keyboard out of wood. The 8-Bit Guy talks like a history teacher, but to me this is all how I cut my teeth in electronics and assembly / BASIC programming.
Great job David! I am still in the middle of my build after concentrating on the history video. Glad to hear the shout out for Uncle Bernie. He has already given me lots of tips.
When speaking with David on this project we referenced your first video, it was tons of help! I really enjoyed your history lesson too. When you are done with your build do please make a playlist that can be shared.
11:42 If memory serves the zx80 actually has a 4k ROM. The zx81 doubled that to 8, and then the Spectrum doubled it again to 16. Which still goes some way to showing how tight Wozmon is, since it's like an eighth of the size.
Pro tip: disconnect the power before populating the computer section. :-) Seriously, super respect for taking on this project, and walking through the experience. And so much thanks for using the model of the Radio Shack cassette recorder and tape models that I used for years.
You probably have to deal with LS/ALS/HC/F/S chips. They all have the same function, but their electrical characteristics are different. Is 1.8V a 1 or a 0? Depending on the letter in the middle of the chip number, it could go either way. So getting the right specific part would matter in something older like this.
@@stonent noels retro labs mentioned that in one of his latest videos about fixing a c64 PCB & discovering fake chips lol.👍🏾. I learnt something new. I'm no electronics engineer & never considered at which point a certain voltage level means a logical 0 or 1 😱 or the difference between certain 74 series chips 😄
When we got an Apple II my dad took an AWA TV and brought a coax line directly out from a point on the internal circuit board and we connected it directly to the output RCA jack of the computer, bypassing all the RF decoding in the set. Worked a treat.
Cool build! Seeing how Apple 1 was a little ahead of my time, (I was 8 playing with Shrinky Dinks and Play Dough) I Really appreciate the comparison to my 1st Computer, the Timex-Sinclair which I got as a kit for my 12th birthday! Oh, and yeah, my family bought a Pong in 1976 and we were literally the 1st on our block. Everyone would come over and play on our 25 inch B/W console TV!
9:56 That's crazy! That's the equivalent of designing a motherboard to take either an x86 CPU or an ARM CPU. The late 70s really were a time when "having a computer" and "being a mad scientist" were basically the same thing.
Not at all, the 6502 was essentially the 6800 changed enough to reduce costs, and so that MOS didn't have to pay Motorola licencing fees. You certainly couldn't do that if they weren't close relatives of each other.
What I've never seen explained is how the ROM worked with the different instruction sets. Anyone know? (I met Woz years ago but I don't remember that being asked then either ...)
Water is perfectly safe to use on electronics, as long as they’re not powered. People wash filthy arcade boards in soap and water all the time. The board must be bone dry before testing though, put it in front of a fan for several hours.
It's not a problem...back in the 90s I used to work for a small manufacturer of Atari peripherals, assembling the circuit boards. We used to clean flux off of them just like you see here and it was never an issue. I dunno how they do it today with the tiny surface mount parts though
@@KoopaMedia64 it depends. In undergrad, my town had really hard water. You wouldn't want to wash with that because you'd end up with deposits all over the board which could cause problems. But yeah, water itself is fine
1:43 - Looks like that capacitor is being installed the wrong way. The arrow on an axial electrolytic always points to the cathode/negative lead. But there is a small + on the PCB next to the negative lead of the cap. I also see that the right side of the cap, directly connects to pin 1 (assuming the small white dot denotes the indentation of the IC) of a 555 timer. Pin 1 of a 555 is denoted as ground. So you've almost certainly put that in the wrong way :( EDIT: I literally sent an email warning of this, before unpausing the video and realizing he had noticed and rectified the issue :D
@@archivushka and occultism seemingly, Hence the once bitten apple symbolizing the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Which brought “the fall of man”.
If you peek through the software in Green Delicious with wozmon or Eeben's own monitor/disassembler you can see some minimal patching where there would normally be I/O register reads and writes. Some I/O use is replaced by calls to subroutines, but IIRC $d012 writes are left unpatched. I suppose the "emulator" might attach a raster interrupt which will immediately read the line count register and output that value to the screen, which is a neat trick. I don't recall if the software it comes with was pre-patched or if this was done at load time, but I've successfully ported Eeben's monitor to a more complete emulator.
"I'm really nervous...if I fry something, it's not a trivial thing" Moment later: "The next thing I'm going to do is manually apply 5 volts to CLS circuit"
@The 8-Bit Guy there's some distracting reflection in your glasses in the first segment (e.g. at 0:18) which appears to be from lights behind the camera. Don't know if you could reposition these to get rid of the reflections? Great nostalgic video btw.
![How the Apple ][ Works!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VStscvYLYLs/mqdefault.jpg)
![How the Apple ][ Works!](/img/tr.png)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
When he plugged the power brick I automatically expected the boom. Then remembered that I was not watching ElectroBoom
*string of beeped curse words*
That would be funny if some smoke was added at that moment for dramatic effect. 😁
Yeah I was also expecting some blue smoke because that would definitely happen if I tried this project
Eh, I'm an engineer and still expect it all the time I build something.
"So the Apple I which sold for $666 was a pretty good deal" For that price it's a hell of a deal
haha i see what u did there
You devil you
Bruh
Lol
that was a devilish pun
Today I learned:
1. The C64 can emulate an Apple 1
2. 8-bit guy has a brother
2) Yeah, and they sound almost exactly the same on the podcast.
I learned that the Apple I could have accommodated a 68000 processor.
The 8-Bit guy is also related to Dime Bag Darrell and Vinnie Paul Abbot from Pantera. He mentions that in a video (possibly on his 8 Bit Keys channel) where he is demonstrating a drum pad with drumsticks given to him by Vinnie Paul.
@@stonent that's pretty cool
Mike From The Geek Pub.
8-bit Guy: "OK, since nothing blew up, I'll test the voltages."
ElectroBOOM: * PSU blows up * "I'll test the voltages."
More like: "What? Nothing blew up?! I'll better test the voltages…"
;-;
Electroboom: Let’s turn it on *Plugs in the PSU*
PSU: *Explodes*
ElectroBOOM: SH*T! Damn it! I forgot to put some full bridge rectifier
The 8-bit guy: "It seems i put the capacitors backwards..."
Elextroboom: "Did i put em backwards? Let's test."
Both RUclipsrs are similar in many ways like their hobby and specialty and they even look alike! Not to mention they’re about the same age.
“The garage is a bit of a myth,” Wozniak told Businessweek. “We did no designs there, no breadboarding, no prototyping, no planning of products. We did no manufacturing there.”
Then what is the truth?
@@eduardolarrymarinsilva76 the interview is behind a paywall, but what I found online is Wozniak saying he designed the Apple I at the offices of Hewlett Packard.
@@hermannabt8361 Ok, that covers the design, so what about the other steps?
@@eduardolarrymarinsilva76 I'm pretty sure they used the garage as a sort of makeshift HQ for when Woz and Jobs and Co. started to ship out the first of the Apple computers to the store or company they had sold them to. Also, I think Woz did SOME amount of testing there with Jobs watching on anxiously. But mostly I think it was just a used as a meeting spot in the early days before they got funding.
@@eduardolarrymarinsilva76 basically they used it for storage
That one is in a tight Venn diagram spot of your interests : historically significant, 8 bit, Apple and 6502. It's unfortunate how expensive it was to put together, but thanks for showing how it worked, that was my first glimpse into its usability.
Totally! Documentation of what it did is surprisingly scarce
All true, bar 'Apple'. I'd swap that for 'Z-80' and then bingo! All boxes ticked.
You could also say that about the Apple II series
Seems like it would be more fun to build than actually use ngl
@@cryptocsguy9282 That's just computers from that time in general
My first computer, I had to move all the bits by hand. One at a time. In the snow, uphill both ways. The Apple I was a tremendous improvement.
LMAO
Your first computer was an abacus? 😆
@@ancuruadh6027 you could say so
Luxury. My first computer only had one bit. And I had to share it with others.
Oh you must have lived in the same area grandparents are from 😂
As a kid i always imagined how horrid life must have been. Permanently the middle of winter, when you go to school barefoot the school is on top of the hill, then by the afternoon a landslide has caused the school to slide down and somehow tow up your house to the top of the hill, then when you get there instead of dinner you get given a sickle and have to somehow cut all the hay and bundle it up before bedtime despite it being under a foot of snow 😂 its fascinating how the mind works, only remembers the shittest parts of the story and moulds it into a semi coherent timeline that you remember forever.
Much like for myself, where it was always summer, the hard waste collection was every week and i spent all day everyday bringing home 8bit computers from peoples nature strips and playing with them 😂😂😂 (realistically that was probably three summers in a row between the ages of 9 and 12, but it seemed like an eternity for me, and i miss it haha)
Apple then: Socketed ICs, scematics in the manual, extra circutry to support alternative components.
Apple now: Can you make a slightly modified version of that component and sell it exclusively to us so nobody will be able to replace it?
Most of that could be attributed to Woz. Jobs were against that from the start.
@@ZX3000GT1 And now we come to Tim Cook who's decided to remove any reparability on any Apple product without voiding warranty.
@@ZX3000GT1 is that true?
@@crunch9876 Not that I'm a huge shill or anything, but most laptops and phones now you can't open without voiding the warranty. Not a practice restricted to Apple alone.
@@Cobalt985 IIRC, in the US at least, there was a recent court case that ruled that those "warranty void if broken" stickers that essentially prevented you from opening a computer were not legal and warranties could not be nullified over that.
Ahh, back when Apple was actually happy to provide you with the full schematic instead of defending their right not to give it to anyone outside of their own technicians.
Woziak, not Apple. Jobs probably never liked it.
@@herrbonk3635 Fair enough.
@@lidge1994 what Apple dose now is what all tech companies do now. You do not want a schematic for a MacBook Pro for all the reasons. It's not basic like a Radio or TV.
@@pyeltd.5457 "You do not want a schematic" is a false assumption.
The people who typically want these schematics are either curious, or need the information to repair their devices (or repair devices on behalf of others).
While Louis Rossmann's channel appears to have somewhat... changed in direction since last I checked, 'back in the day' the channel's main feature was repairing dead computers.
@@t20kdc he occasionally still does board repairs though
In the past I've been an IT field engineer working on EPOS devices and this takes me back to the days when we would repair boards at the customers location right down to replacing diodes and transistors or looking for dry joints - great video as always thank you
Nothing says “70s computer design” like an exposed power supply!
If you had to ask you didn’t need apply…
meanwhile the imac pro
Well, to be fair, the power supply is still exposed in modern iMacs, it's kind of a nightmare when you're disassembling it.
That wnd the scrap wood holding up the keyboard
i have a computer fron 2004 that has an exposed power supply
I had always imagined that the Apple 1 was just a less advanced version of the Apple II. Turns out I was right! In the same way that a sharp rock tied to a stick is a less advanced version of a chainsaw! It's amazing how much people were able to do with these early computers!
I don’t think it’s entirely accurate to say the Apple 1 is a less advanced Apple II. That’s similar to saying the Genesis is a less advanced version of the Neo Geo or a Macintosh. They all share the same CPU but 95% of the rest of all those computers are completely different. The Apple 1 clearly has an entirely different way of generating video and also has no sound apparently.
You hear yourself, right?
@@phonotical It's clearly a joke.
The terminal already existed. The Apple I was not designed as a computer. It was putting the computer, the microprocessor and DRAM, on the motherboard rather than calling one of the 6 far-away ARPAnet computers that the terminal had been used for. A lot of things that might be considered deficiencies were because of this 'quick' approach to show off how a modern computer should be. This was shown well before Steve Jobs knew it even existed, and all the designs were handed out freely with no copyrights. But the real machine, which would be Apple's only successful product for the first 10 years, was the Apple II, which was a computer design from the ground up. The Apple II was being shown before we ever shipped an Apple I. Also note that at this time (1975) other attempts at affordable computers had mainframes with switches and lights and the far too expensive Static Ram. It was easy to copy an Intel data sheet but you needed real engineering for a useful affordable computer.
The Apple I PC boards were assembled and wave soldered for $13 at the place which manufactured the raw PC boards. Only a few were hand assembled, part by part, at home.
*Tech tip:* On those carbon comp resistors, check the values with a meter before installing and soldering them. Back in the late '70s/early '80s at work I discovered that a large number of them had absorbed humidity from the air and drastically changed values. If you soldered them it sealed the moisture in, but if you first baked them for a while in an oven it dried them out and returned them to within tolerance again. They could then be soldered in and the value stayed correct.
This was at an electronics manufacturer, with large quantities of components on reels for automated insertion, so it was probably worst-case for a problem like this.
That's a good point (although I didn't know the mechanisms of their drift). However here resistors are probably mostly used as pullups or similar functions where the value really doesn't matter.
And a side note, in previous episodes David has mentioned he is colorblind and _can't_ read the codes, so chances are he used a meter here.
@@eDoc2020 Thanks for your comment about my comment!
My main reason for mentioning it was literally a Tech Tip, something I'd run into in my career that most people wouldn't experience, but make them aware of the circumstances so if they do hopefully they'll catch on to it quicker. I'm sure there might be other reasons why carbon composition resistors might drift out of tolerance, simply aging is one.
I totally agree on the fact that in this case the tolerances don't matter as much, especially if they are all the same value and things are therefore balanced out. In my case the resistors were being used in a 555 timer circuit as a power-on reset to the CPU board, and being out of tolerance screwed up the timing and made the 555 not do its job. We baked some resistors pre-installation to fix the current batch of boards, then had an engineering change to use a metal-film resistor in future boards.
As for David being colorblind, I can slightly sympathize. After years of working with color-coded resistors and other components, I discovered I see a few colors differently than most. When I took a color-blindness test where you look at the colored dots in a circle, you're supposed to make out a pattern of one number if you're "normal" and another if you're color-blind. Well, I saw a third number in the pattern! Confused the doctor a bit .
Fascinating. But wait, how does soldering them "seal the moisture in" (or out)? Does moisture somehow travel up the metal leads? I don't see how that aspect could possibly be true. The rest makes sense, but surely the moisture transfers through the casing? Probably over long periods, so it would seem like they become "locked in" once baked. Also, a typical home will have better climate control than a warehouse, so they probably remain stable under consumer use, just not in warehouse storage. I bet it has nothing to do with soldering at all, but the baking prior to soldering part does make sense.
@@Havron This was 40+ years ago, and wasn't something that went through a detailed scientific analysis by any means. So far as I/we could tell at the time, it was the carbon composition (think granules packed together) that was porous enough to allow humidity to get in and affect the material. I think the majority of the casiing was coated, something like varnish. Where the resistor leads attached to the body may have been the point of entry, and the heat of soldering was high enough to seal it regardless of the state of the carbon comp inside. So a lower heat over time returned the material to the proper consistency if the moisture was allowed to escape prior to the soldering.
Note that the "warehouse" was a manufacturing shop floor, heated in winter but not air conditioned in summer, so the longer the resistors were in the environment the more chance of gaining humidity.
Again, this situation was just the right set of circumstances to (1) have the resistors exposed to the humidity long enough, and (2) needing a tighter tolerance on the resistance value in the circuit. After finding multiple cases of the parts being out of tolerance, replacing them with others that were also out the same way, we started looking for why, and how to resolve it. If I recall they may have dumped the reel of problem resistors and just bought a fresh supply; baking a small batch to tide us over until the new ones arrived. They were relatively inexpensive, after all.
@@bobblum5973 Yep, that all makes sense. I agree, the point of entry probably was the edges of the casing near the leads, and I had not considered the potential sealing effect of the heat from soldering nearby. That could very well have been a factor.
Thanks for the glimpse into resistor manufacturing, quite interesting!
The good ol’ days. Back when computers were fun to mess with. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
I was born in ‘97, and while I enjoy the power and convenience of modern computers as much as the guy, I often find myself dwelling on how envious I am of those that got to experience the development and release of the first few generations of personal computers. It’s so fascinating to me that in these days it was completely plausible to DIY a contemporary home computer that could keep up with the rest of them if you knew what you were doing. These days building a PC, as much fun as it is, it’s like if you got a lego set where the individual blocks had already been assembled into chunks of the final design and you just have to make a few connections to finish it. I wish I could have been there for the days when people designed and built their own computers from scratch, the only pre-assembly having been manufacturing the chips and electrical components.
ZX Spectrum scene is exactly about this. And there are a lot of source codes for the programs. Try it :)
We're basically the same age and I feel this; I always like seeing prototypical, nonstandardized methods, means, and technology before it's codified and super convenient. I'm not much of a computer guy though, but computers from the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s are interesting because they're much different even from 10 years ago for the 00s. To think you needed a physical disk to start a computer, the internet was connected to the phone, and social media would be carried out on Usenet. Of course I'm jumbling together the different eras, but the paradigm shifted about 12 years ago and it feels alien looking back.
I was born in 05, and I can agree.
You might be interested in working with microcontrollers then. The embedded world is pretty similar to what you're talking about - lots of choices for MCUs, sensors, I/O, etc. and you basically put them together to get exactly the system you want.
You can pick up a kit with an Arduino, some breadboards and wires, a bunch of sensors, and a project book that walks you through everything for less than $100. Once you're familiar with how everything works, you can step out of the Arduino world and start working with bare chips and custom circuit boards. You don't need much in the way of coding or electronics knowledge to begin with, although the more of those you pick up the more you can do with your projects.
I suspect I got the job I have today because of my tinkering around with microcontrollers in my shed. I work in industrial automation and while I don't design circuits, I have to be able to read and understand technical drawings and schematics and program PLCs. The skills I learned playing with microcontrollers gave me the edge over the other applicants that only had IT skills.
@@jeffspaulding9834 Microcontrollers are pretty boring. They are far too ready made today. You basically need TTL (or newer CMOS 74XX) plus discrete components to make it interesting, at the hardware level.
This is really ficking cool. I'm not used to seeing the board so clean (of course, it's a replica-so that's why) but still. Amazing.
Indeed it is
Hello
It Is
Same thing when I got my RADlib card. I was used to seeing them faded and scratched up.
I love how verified subscriber never comment negative thing.
It's always so respectable to see someone putting so much time and effort into something like this
Just to correct one of the first statements you made: 200 Apple I's were known to be produced, 63 are known to still exit (edit: exist), and out of those, only 6 are known to be in full working condition.
exist*
@@Green-li4mk don't be **THAT** guy
@@theforerunnerreclaimer i'm not trying to be
@@Green-li4mk no it’s exit
You forgot the “um actually”
"Hey, 'member when OS manuals had the full source code in them?"
"... No. I was not born then."
Wow, that must've been such a joy for nerds of the time!
It was... I was one of those nerds. Still am. 🤪
At least with Linux you get the full source code today. But that's not the full computer. Open source bios is not a common thing. Or graphics card drivers.
Now you can't even get board schematics for repair.
@@xeridea Yeah, I've watched a few of Rossman's videos... To a degree, I can understand why they wouldn't want to help mere mortals like little molecular biologist me just sticking in whatever chip I can find for the fun of it, but their mistrust of independent repair shops is just insane.
Yet there are still people alive.... just.... who worked on the very first electronic computers ever. My grandad passed a way a few years ago, and he was a computer programmer in the Royal Navy in to 50's when "computer programmer" wasn't a term that was used.
This was fun. I loved the disclosure of the 6 1K shift registers for display memory. THAT is INGENIOUS!
blimey, looks like period correct solid carbon? resistors and those blue sprague caps!
Ohmite still sells carbon comp resistors which is nice! I used a ton of them recently on my replica SCELBI. It definitely makes a difference aesthetically :D
@Lmao Die Carbon composition resistors are an old school style of resistor. It's basically made of a compressed carbon-based material. I don't know the full composition. You can identify these by the perfect cylindrical shape with a sharp cut off at each side.
Modern resistors tend to be either carbon film or metal film. These are made by winding a film into a cylinder. These are the modern resistors with slight buldges at each end and a smooth transition to each edge. They're cheaper to make and I believe easier to make precise. But carbon composition still works alright.
@Lmao Die Go eat your tendies and tell your wife's boyfriend we're still headed to the moon on GME then.
And the smaller caps are ITT-branded. Cool.
Nice video! Point of order: there was almost no manufacturing done by Woz or Jobs in the garage. Woz dispelled that myth a long time ago. In an interview he stated very little was done in the garage.. it was just a 'place to go' for two guys in a new business with no money for offices. IIRC the boards had sockets and some other components wave soldered by the manufacturer (NTI, etc) and then they were stuffed later on, often by helpers.
Although, Daniel Kottke, and many others said they DID manufacture boards in the garage. Also Chuck Peddle himself also said they were making boards in Jobs's garage. In fact, Chuck said he had to go to the garage and help re-design the Apple 1 because it wasn't working. Most likely much of the Apple 1 is based on the KIM-1 besides the video circuit, which Paul Tyrell said that he heard the video circuit was based on one of HP's terminals projects.
What everyone agrees on is that Woz was not in the garage much, but Jobs and the rest of the gang were there.
@@deckard5pegasus673 It depends whose account you read. There are some accounts they were stuffing/repairing the boards in the garage, yes, but they weren't soldering 1000 individual joints by hand for every board as David suggested. The boards were 100% wave soldered.
@@dreadpiratesidebeard9471
The wave-soldering may have been done when they were falling behind. Also PCBs were made by Atari, as Jobs asked a friend at Atari.
Woz's versions of the story are different from other's peoples. For example Woz says he bought the 6502 from Chuck Peddle, when Chuck Peddle specifically said it was Jobs, not Woz, who bought the first 6502 from him.
Anyhow, they're details, ...or "points of view" ... people live things differently or remember them how they like.
But Woz definately deserves a hell of a lot more credit, than he was given
@@deckard5pegasus673 True. Woz did the engineering, while Jobs did the marketing.
@@deckard5pegasus673 There are multiple sources including the folks over at Applefritter that say they were wave soldered the whole way through for the sockets. No idea on other components like resistors. I was a year old so I can't verify of course :). But I think that makes sense.. it would have been far too labour intensive to hand solder all those sockets. Not to mention the risk of mistakes. I'll have to try digging around for more authoritative sources but that seems to make the most sense.
I remember going to one of Steve Wozniak's lectures at Miami University in 2018 with my mother. He mentioned extra tidbits of the Apple I previously unknown to nerds like myself! It was an epic experience! And with this being my senior year there, I am going to walk on the same stage that the legend stood on for my graduation ceremony!
My grandfather helped create Pong, and seeing you in that shirt makes my day. Thanks Peter Gabriel, love your vids man
So, the C64 running Apple 1 software is essentially a type-1 hypervisor like KVM. That's really cool!
Totally agree, I very much appreciate 8BitGuys effort in putting this together - but also very thankful to now know my C64 can emulate an Apple 1. (although unfortunate about the lack of tape support - perhaps someday that will get added in) Hopefully backspace works though! :) "didn't wire up the backspace yet", oh my!
12:55 I love the loud typing sound on that keyboard. It reminds me why I love my mechanical keyboard.
That sound reminds me of why I love laptop keyboards 😉
Wow. This episode really brought it all together. Returned to the absolute core of Apple’s mighty imperium today, presented perfectly nerdy from a gorgeous new studio. Hats off to you, 8-Bit Guy!
The music always makes these feel like exotic, exciting adventures.
Your content is next level. This style of old school computer hobby is nearly nonexistent nowadays. I appreciate this insight into what made computing fun in that era.
Music on your videos is just.. superb!
Such a joy to watch
I can't imagine Steve Jobs did any of the soldering in that garage. Poor old Woz.
Steve Jobs was nothing more than a marketing man, he never invented anything.
The name that should be remembered isn’t :(
CEOs are more like mascots of the company than anything else, with a few exceptions of smaller company CEOs sometimes doing actual work.
Actually Jobs complained often about the soldering jobs Woz did.
@@vizionthing That is an incredibly unfair assessment. Yes, Woz was the engineer, but without Jobs, he would have given away the Apple I for free, and nothing else would have come of it. Jobs was a visionary in the sense that he could see potential in things and get other people to make it a reality.
oh my, that altair 8800! my dad learned on one, he has a ton of parts for one, almost a complete set, we have been meaning to put it all together and get it working. thats so cool!
1978 in South Western Ontario Canada I started a short lived computer company called Mack Computers. We resold and customized MIPS and other early machines. Should have kept the name, if I did, I imagine i would have got a butt load from Apple to buy it as it was before they had the Macintosh or iMac computers. Oh those were the days. I still have the solder burn scars.
After watching this, I want to build one just to solder in all those points. Soldering relaxes me
Sappy post incoming. I've been watching you for years, and it's pretty much therapy at this point. Glad you're here.
whenever I hear 8-bit guy's intro, I smile. Hands down, the best YT intro I've come across
Every time this guy uploads a video, a quarter of the USA gets happy. :)
Keep up the good vibes!
The happiness even spreads outside the us, to the land of pal television
Wooden keyboard stands made me smile sincerely, because it really had to match the style of those years. =)
Thank you so much! Very interesting videos !!!
Wow) I didn't think that the 8-bit guy is watched by compatriots)))
The wood chunks were the most expensive part of this build, what with wood prices…
13:53 It was very satisfying when you loaded basic, and that hex code was installed on those circuits that took a long time to assemble to come to life.
This was extremely interesting. I didn't know the Apple I board had basically a separate terminal and CPU section, and also it was interesting to understand how the shift registers really worked.
if you got half a million dollars in the bank you can buy an apple one or you can make an apple one replica for a whole lot less and the upside is it's brand new so it will last a whole lot longer to boot due to being brand new parts
I got to play Hunt the Wumpus on a friend's real Apple 1. This led me to buy a KIM-1 and soon later a Rev-0 Apple 2. I loved that Apple 2 but was eventually lured away to the recently available IBM PC. (As a IBM employee I got a good price.) I continued to play with the Apple but my attention went mostly to the IBM. I still owe a lot to the Apple as it lead me into a career with computers.
Those were the good days weren't they? PCs were more fun in those early'ish years. Then the internet came along and I started noticing it wasn't as much fun as it had been earlier.
Can't agree with you more...back then computing was more of an adventure into a new, unknown realm. Now it's old hat and it's super rare to find anything new to get excited about :(
And a heck of a lot easier to understand exactly how it works!!
@Russel Brooks: "Then the internet came along and I started noticing it wasn't as much fun as it had been earlier."
Yeah. And I know why that is, and it's not the Inet, exactly.
100% agreed, computers were way more fun back then.
@@codeoptimizationware2803 A lot of my fun was the BBSes and almost all disappeared due to the internet.
"Now to test the power brick."
FIRE IN THE HOLE
Needs more paper clip
@@thomasphillips885 Was thinking the same
Oh man I totally forgot about that Star Trek game! That’s more old-school than Empire and NetHack.
I'm not sure which came first - Star Trek or Empire. Both seem to have gotten started in 1971. But certainly Star Trek gained wide popularity long before Empire.
I wonder if this is what Chekov saw on his console when they went into battle.
Atari Archive's newest episode is a history of that game; worth checking out if you are interested.
yep, and Hammurabi, the other one he showed. You could buy both those games plus a couple of others together in a "Games Pack" on cassette for the TRS-80 model I at Radio Shack early on. Of course they go back much farther.
I'm currently playing nethack.
Awesome post! I am a software guy who learned programming on an Atari 400 in 1981. As a teen I used to create games using BASIC and 6502 machine language. At 58 I still make a living creating software.
OMG this looks like a fantastic build! thank you for enduring and sharing the final result with us! I can't believe Woz just figured this all out by reading part info sheets and scribbling schematics into a notebook.
Man, I really love the new studio. I also think your office/workbench makes a great set. Although you would have to solve the audio issues and figure out a way to film without reflections in your glasses. But man, I hope you film in that room also.
The reflections where annoying but you switched camera angles and it was soon a distant memory.
Indeed. I knew a 1,000 people would be pointing this out. But there was nothing I could do. First time filming in this location. I didn't notice the issue until editing and it was too late to re-shoot that scene because I had already soldered to the PCB. So I'll just have to see 1,000 comments about it. You won't see it in future videos.
@@The8BitGuy as any cinematographer knows, reviewing every reel of footage, make you better / excellent to see the genesis of Apple here .. now my brother + I can finally .. not be afraid to start building our own. you took away the pain of worry. the unknown can be so crippling .. for often no (practical) reason.
@@The8BitGuy cmd-F "reflection" saved me the comment ;-) Love your channel!
@@The8BitGuy nahhh… keep focusing on great and interesting content Most of viewers don’t really care about those details. Remember: “Expensive photography gear doesn’t make you a better photographer”.
I hope the keyboards are going to find their way back onto the studio wall. Thanks for all the time and effort involved to bring us this video.
That was excellent, really enjoyed it. I missed that era of computers so hearing about it and seeing some of the technical stuff is great. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure you already noticed the glare on your glasses, I wear glasses and hate it when that happens. I have no idea how to fix it but hey still a great video. Thanks!
I know how to fix it. I'll just have to not film in that spot until after dark. It's the window glaring on my glasses.
@@The8BitGuy good blackout curtains work to 100% block out windows. I use suede.
@@The8BitGuy Cut out a high quality wood case for it, forgot what name of the wood that was put on appliances of the 70s but if you make one good enough with the wood,
@@WELLINGTON20 Dude if you actually watched the video he says his brother is making him a wood case. -_-
It's always a good day when The 8-Bit Guy uploads
It's important to remember the time and to compare it against the available competition.
The Altair 8800 inspired Wozniak to design what would become known as the Apple I because he knew that he could do better and he did.
I enjoyed this episode! I have never dug that deep into the Apple I before, I always knew it existed but I never knew how it was used, so this was my first view into it, so it was very educational for me. So weird seeing that you actually had to manipulate the memory by hand basically. I think you did well on this, it sounded like you had a lot of trouble making this but I personally really liked it!
I’m surprised he didn’t finish the video by saying the Apple 1 is a terrible computer for general use today.
@@KoopaMedia64 ...did he have to? We're talking about technology from the 1970s here, of course it isn't going to have practical use today. You could say the same thing about virtually any other computer he talks about on here.
I still don't get what it's used for.
@@MrEightThreeOne in his review of the PE6502 hobby computer, he concludes that the Apple 1 is a terrible computer mainly because it’s so limited in what it can do, that’s what I was referring to.
@@JohnSmith-yd5wq It is just as useless now as it was in the 70's.
The closest I ever got to an Apple 1 was at Fry's Electronics in Sunnyvale, CA. They had one on display (board only) behind glass on the sales floor.
Fry's was great, I only got to visit a couple of them but walking around the sales floor was amazing before 2010. Probably would have been even cooler back in the 2000s and 90s
@@jr2904 Fry’s was great but when I worked there I lost all respect and never saw them the same again. They wanted me to wear a suit, tie, dress slacks, dress shoes and look like I’m selling stock when in reality I was helping parents buy their kids video games. That’s not even the worst of it. There were so many layers of management just at the store level alone. After working there for a couple weeks I finally found out who my boss was.
When did you see one in person? Was it for sale or just a display?
@@Kylefassbinderful sounds like Kmart in the 70s and 80s. My cousin used to bounce around the Midwest every 2 years until they eliminated all of the micromanagement in 1987.
@@Kylefassbinderful yea near the end they weren't even running the air conditioning and the people were still in dress clothes, felt bad for them.
The Letter and Number grid mapping was not an apple invention but an industry standard BTW.
I'm always fascinated by the amount of work you put into your content. Building an entire Apple I from scratch is amazing.
Well done and welcome back! Great episode tackling the creation of such an iconic machine. Glad you are back online!
"Byte the apple only at 666$" lol what a pun!
That's a lot of Biblical reference
All commodore PETS were also hand assembled, have some respect for the production line people as well since they made the PET possible.
And made in the US
@@locklear308 PETS were made everywhere to serve their local areas
@@Unix2816 well I mean that makes sense, it's easier to make something somewhere versus shipping it all over the place
0:59 Those tiles remind me of the UK gameshow Blockbusters. Which is a good thing.
i got into computers with the apple 2e. at the time i remember that feeling of acomplishment when you spent 4 hours typing in code from the monthly magazine knowing when you got done it was only going to survive till you shut off the system. still worth it. couldnt afford the floppy drive at the time.
Ya know what I enjoy about your videos? You don't have any music in your background, you're not over the type, zangy, quirky, high energy. You are very calm, direct, and well spoken and address your points and knowledge in an very enthusiastic way. You remain grounded while showing clear passion for what you do. I hope it's not weird to say. But I sincerely wish there were more personalities like you on RUclips. I've learned so much about PC's from you that I didn't know before and the way they are getting introduced to me really reminds me of being a kid and hearing my father or grandfather share their hobbies and interests with me. Don't stop doing what you're doing man. You're surely a treasure.
Time for you to go see the hearing doctor 😂
4:57 Was that price tag intentional to be "evil?" If so, nice marketing strategy.
Apple been evil ever since Day 1 when Steve Jobs ripped Steve Woz off stealing that $5,000 from him and tricking him into doing all of the work
No, Woz liked repeating digits
The logo IS after all, a once bitten apple, which represents the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is quite the symbol for evil.
And $666 some dollars was close to the retail price they wanted, not $555 and not $777.
Also Steve Jobs being evil
Steve Wozniak was unaware of the associations that 666 had, they chose 666.66 because they liked repeating numbers.
2:47 we found that your device has a water damage, the repair costs is approx $500.000
The "i'll do anything to not talk about the Amiga" Bit Guy.
He's never used one for daily driving.
@@yay4this He indicated over a year ago that he would add Amiga to his Commodore documentary, still waiting...
@@seejay5364 I'd stick with a real Amiga user channel
I guess Amiga is 16 bit not 8 bit - that's why, although I would love to see his view on this superb machine ;)
I hadn't noticed he hasn't really spoken about the Amiga. But then again he hasn't spoken about the ST either. He has looked at some IBM PC stuff and clones...so we can't say it's because he's the "8 bit" guy.
Very good! I convinced my Dad in the late 70s to buy a Heathkit 25" color TV with a lot of advanced features, and when it showed up in umpteen boxes looking nothing at all like a TV, other than the picture tube, he said "Are you sure you know what you're doing?" "Sure!" :) When it came time to plug it in, I prayed hard that the magic smoke stayed where it belonged. It did :) He used that TV forever! And it really was advanced. Memories. Thanks!
It's especially interesting to see how the terminal side is like a separate brain, like the legs of an octopus. Also, it's amazing that the board was designed to work with different types of chips. Those solder pads are like a geeky, lo-fi version of jumper pins and boxes.
holy hell
that little image you threw up, with the Apple II and little composite monitor?
that was _exactly_ the first monitor I had. _Exactly_ it. on my c64.
it's green phosphor if anyone is wondering.
And still, works like a charm even on a little composite monitor like this.
Man, the Wozmon prompt really reminds of the time I tried to write my own "programming language" in Borland Delphi 3 when I was about 10. My dad was a professional programmer, and I LOVED video games, so I was desperate to get a look at how they worked. The thing I made was basically a very simple string parser, likely horribly inefficient, but you could do a bunch with it. I basically read through one of those huge manuals you used to get for Delphi and wrote a shorthand for each command that was mapped to a bigger file with the full commands in it. So you had two text boxes in the program (I think it ran on Windows 95), and you could type in a shorthand code in one, and the full command to execute in the other. So then if you entered that shorthand code again, it would look up what the full command was and run it.
So for example, I had "pd" (play doom) mapped to launch Doom, and "ptr" (play tomb raider) mapped to launch Tomb Raider, for example.
Today I'm a university lecturer teaching programming, so I guess that early dabbling was worth it. I just wish I could find the old hard drive it's on and take a look at my clumsy code XD
You made a complicated batch file
Sounds a lot like how B and C were originally implemented as alternatives to writing everything in A(ssembler).
Reminds me of university days when a friend was taking a compiler course, as in the project was writing your own compiler. We touched bases about once a week and he explained his current progress. Mad respect to compiler developers.
Pretty impressive for a kitty cat.
Were not impressed by your .bat file. Script kitty.
This kinda reminds me of Ben Eater's computer on a breadboard...
That series was awesome
Yup. If Ben made a kit out of his computer it'd look like this, minus the video display and keyboard interface and so on.
@@jarede3724 i need to watch & buy his 8bit & 6502 computer kits 👀
18:52 - I loved the old DEC VT52 Visual Display Unit, connected to the PDP-11!
Good times.
This brings back memories! I put together an Apple II computer kit from a bare board. At the time I couldn't afford the factory assembled computer (yes, I am that old). Later I upgraded it from cassette memory to floppy disks. I made the case for the computer and keyboard out of wood. The 8-Bit Guy talks like a history teacher, but to me this is all how I cut my teeth in electronics and assembly / BASIC programming.
makes me appreciate having a full sized wave solder machine.
Great job David! I am still in the middle of my build after concentrating on the history video. Glad to hear the shout out for Uncle Bernie. He has already given me lots of tips.
When speaking with David on this project we referenced your first video, it was tons of help! I really enjoyed your history lesson too. When you are done with your build do please make a playlist that can be shared.
11:42 If memory serves the zx80 actually has a 4k ROM. The zx81 doubled that to 8, and then the Spectrum doubled it again to 16.
Which still goes some way to showing how tight Wozmon is, since it's like an eighth of the size.
yep, 4k, i have a zx80, plus several zx81s and spectrums, the zx80 basic was very primitive integers only
Pro tip: disconnect the power before populating the computer section. :-)
Seriously, super respect for taking on this project, and walking through the experience. And so much thanks for using the model of the Radio Shack cassette recorder and tape models that I used for years.
The music, the board layout, the resistor package… my goodness I’m in heaven.
When you build something like this, are the parts "new old stock" or are they still in production today?
Combination of both.
You probably have to deal with LS/ALS/HC/F/S chips. They all have the same function, but their electrical characteristics are different. Is 1.8V a 1 or a 0? Depending on the letter in the middle of the chip number, it could go either way. So getting the right specific part would matter in something older like this.
@@stonent noels retro labs mentioned that in one of his latest videos about fixing a c64 PCB & discovering fake chips lol.👍🏾. I learnt something new. I'm no electronics engineer & never considered at which point a certain voltage level means a logical 0 or 1 😱 or the difference between certain 74 series chips 😄
@@cryptocsguy9282 That's what the datasheets are for.
Great topic and video. I haven’t watched it to the end, but at time stamp 1:44, is the electrolytic capacitor inserted backwards?
Sure looks like it to me!
Those are some big arse capacitors. PSU technology has improved a lot.
So has capacitor technology. Modern caps with the same specs are much smaller.
When we got an Apple II my dad took an AWA TV and brought a coax line directly out from a point on the internal circuit board and we connected it directly to the output RCA jack of the computer, bypassing all the RF decoding in the set. Worked a treat.
Watched this guy a while ago at like mid 2016-2018, came back and the content is still as amazing as it was
Cool build! Seeing how Apple 1 was a little ahead of my time, (I was 8 playing with Shrinky Dinks and Play Dough) I Really appreciate the comparison to my 1st Computer, the Timex-Sinclair which I got as a kit for my 12th birthday! Oh, and yeah, my family bought a Pong in 1976 and we were literally the 1st on our block. Everyone would come over and play on our 25 inch B/W console TV!
Timex-Sinclair + 16K memory expansion + cassette player + BW TV kept me busy for many hours. I couldn't afford an Apple 2 nor a Vic 20.
9:56 That's crazy! That's the equivalent of designing a motherboard to take either an x86 CPU or an ARM CPU. The late 70s really were a time when "having a computer" and "being a mad scientist" were basically the same thing.
Oh, it's not that bad. The 6502 was created by ex-Motorolla employees who had worked on the 6800, and they made the 6501 pin compatible with the 6800.
IIRC, the 6502 took some of the *concepts* of the 6800, but cut some features to reduce the total chip count (and avoid any patent clashes).
Not at all, the 6502 was essentially the 6800 changed enough to reduce costs, and so that MOS didn't have to pay Motorola licencing fees. You certainly couldn't do that if they weren't close relatives of each other.
What I've never seen explained is how the ROM worked with the different instruction sets. Anyone know? (I met Woz years ago but I don't remember that being asked then either ...)
@@logiciananimal AFAIK the short answer is it doesn't. They would have written a different ROM for the 6800.
I won't lie: Every time I see water straight from the facet being poured on a mainboard, my booty clenches.
Water is perfectly safe to use on electronics, as long as they’re not powered. People wash filthy arcade boards in soap and water all the time. The board must be bone dry before testing though, put it in front of a fan for several hours.
It's not a problem...back in the 90s I used to work for a small manufacturer of Atari peripherals, assembling the circuit boards. We used to clean flux off of them just like you see here and it was never an issue. I dunno how they do it today with the tiny surface mount parts though
@@KoopaMedia64 it depends. In undergrad, my town had really hard water. You wouldn't want to wash with that because you'd end up with deposits all over the board which could cause problems. But yeah, water itself is fine
@@chrisfreemesser5707 They use IPA and deprotonated, distilled water
@@anonymousarmadillo6589 I duno if I would pour an India Pale Ale on a computer.
Really good quality music! Congrats on the new studio!
I just want to say you gave the best intro I’ve ever seen on RUclips.
1:43 - Looks like that capacitor is being installed the wrong way.
The arrow on an axial electrolytic always points to the cathode/negative lead.
But there is a small + on the PCB next to the negative lead of the cap.
I also see that the right side of the cap, directly connects to pin 1 (assuming the small white dot denotes the indentation of the IC) of a 555 timer. Pin 1 of a 555 is denoted as ground. So you've almost certainly put that in the wrong way :(
EDIT:
I literally sent an email warning of this, before unpausing the video and realizing he had noticed and rectified the issue :D
I’m watching the video for the first time and was about to comment about the same thing… :)
At 9:50 it looks like the left leg of the middle resistor is missing solder.
The fact that it originally sold for $666 is absolutely hilarious
Jobs liked repeating numbers)
@@archivushka and occultism seemingly, Hence the once bitten apple symbolizing the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Which brought “the fall of man”.
@@graxjpg and Jobs did Woz like Cain did Abel
@@xp7575 seems like he wanted to help facilitate a new “fall”..
He is evil
I'm glad a person like you exists.
This is one of the BEST channels on youtube… id love to hang out with this guy, he seems awesome
If you peek through the software in Green Delicious with wozmon or Eeben's own monitor/disassembler you can see some minimal patching where there would normally be I/O register reads and writes. Some I/O use is replaced by calls to subroutines, but IIRC $d012 writes are left unpatched. I suppose the "emulator" might attach a raster interrupt which will immediately read the line count register and output that value to the screen, which is a neat trick.
I don't recall if the software it comes with was pre-patched or if this was done at load time, but I've successfully ported Eeben's monitor to a more complete emulator.
Up next, his arch nemesis: 64-bit guy.
No 16-bit guy
"I'm really nervous...if I fry something, it's not a trivial thing"
Moment later:
"The next thing I'm going to do is manually apply 5 volts to CLS circuit"
Believe it or not, that's actually in the build instructions I was reading. So I was just following instructions.
cool, it must be cos you need to check your work as you go
My original Apple II came with one of those CCTV monitors that's really nice!
This man built his own apple 1, you gained a suscriber
@The 8-Bit Guy there's some distracting reflection in your glasses in the first segment (e.g. at 0:18) which appears to be from lights behind the camera. Don't know if you could reposition these to get rid of the reflections? Great nostalgic video btw.
Now we just need the "Great and powerful Woz" himself to chime in or respond via video.
I found a sony security monitor recently and wondered how itd look with a nice old monochrome computer. Now i just gotta get an apple 1!
I have to say - your soldering is quite good, sir.
P.S. it was nice to hear Petscii Robots Soundtrack =)
The 8-bit era was a time of incredible innovation.