You guys have a new subsciber! Only half way through the video, but this is by far the best discourse i've seen concerning the short. It's so refreshing and pleasing to hear you guys give your honest opinions while still being aware of and holding account to the social media discourse and its murder of media literacy. Not to mention i had no idea my favourite comic writer, Grant Morrison, had written for Doctor Who!!! So thank you for that little nugget of info too. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the specials and future seasons of DW. Keep up the great work
To clarify, I think the order goes Power of the Doctor - that “Letter from the Doctor” thing in the Annual - Liberation of the Daleks - Destination: Skaro minisode - Into Control/Under Control (the Sycorax and Alfredo the pig short stories) - The Star Beast. So there seems to be an indeterminate gap after the minisode and before TSB in which all manner of EU adventures are supposed to slot, I think.
I agree that it's fairly likely Davros won't even appear in RTD2 and I wouldn't be particularly bothered by that (either from a fannish wishlist perspective or from the POV of 'let's retire this outdated character type'); the only issue I can see is that if the next era doesn't double down on / cement this "new" take on Davros the chances of a future era following through on the same ideology and making the same decisions are going to be a fair bit slimmer, so I dunno if the result RTD wants will necessarily materialise
People are already trying to argue on the wiki that we should still let his comments about seeing Davros this way moving forward inform how we write the article. >.>
It’s funny, but this mostly negative discussion of “Destination: Skaro” has actually, in some ways, made me like it even more. Doing a big redesign in something everyone was going to dismiss as disposable fodder while simultaneously being seen by a lot of people is kinda cheeky and sort of a perfect place to do so. My favourite moment in the minisode is one that I missed the first time round. When the Dalek presents its new janitorial appendage to Davros, I thought it was doing so proudly. Rewatching it, though, you could see it turn its eye stalk accusatorially at Castavillian (great name btw). A extremely cynical reading of the fourteen’s line about his predecessor being a “brilliant woman” is one of condescension. The Doctor has usually been quite dismissive of his previous faces post-regeneration, so to break the mould here I found noteworthy. While this could’ve been funnier, the idea of a Dilbert/The Office-style Kaled spin-off intrigues me (more so than a straightforward Dalek spinoff), especially if they pull a “Don’t Hug Me, I’m Scared” tonal rug-pull in between the white-collar workers, office romance and Secret Santa-ing every once and awhile to remind the audience what a tragedy’s coming for all the characters.
One small point of disagreement - while I agree wholeheartedly on lazy 'German coding' for villains, I really don't think Bleach is doing a particular Teutonic accent here. Speaking as someone who did German at university, I can't really detect it in the mix. There's something, clearly, overlayed over his normal speaking voice, but having gone back and listened to the way he talks through the prosthetic mask in 2008, I don't think it's actually distinct from the clipped, rasping vocals he gave then; it's just that it sounds slightly different without the mask. I don't think it's just Missy or me, either; I've seen quite a few others say they don't feel like he's changing his voice work particularly.
It's fair with Davros but I do feel conflating the issues with Dalek mobility as being tied to ableism is unfair. They're tanks, not life support, and in the revived series we constantly see daleks able to live fine outside of their armour. I've always thought that the Daleks are pretty piss poor nazi analogues in 9/10 situations but this is one element a feel works. The myth that the nazi's were somehow this hyper competent military with uniquely advanced weaponry has always been an element of their propaganda that lingers in public concensus, propagated by those terrible history channel programs, when in fact most of the time their stuff was developed essentially to stroke their machismo in ways that would be easily exploited. The daleks having made their tank at the expense of basic movement actually reflects an actual element of nazism which does make it feel kinda weird when you have showrunners choosing to remove these elements for the explicit purpose of fan validation
In 1963, the Daleks were people damaged and mutated by nuclear radiation. They adapted by living as cyborgs inside Dalek casings. Technically, every Dalek is a disabled person. Russell T Davies is now in a tight corner. If the retcon of Davros is to be applied consistently, then the Daleks would have to become evil robots, following on from "Destiny of the Daleks", where Terry Nation had retconned the Daleks into robots to borrow a plot idea from Isaac Asimov, to pit them against the Movellan robot race. As an aside, the Daleks could be given legs, thus converting them into fudged, low rent Cybermen. The Cybermen are disabled people with augmented cybernetic appliances. The principle is exactly the same as with Davros, the Daleks and the Cybermen. A bird breaking a snail's shell with a stone is using a tool. Tool usage predates humanity. A bird is an advanced form of dinosaur. Davros' chair, the Tardis and a smartphone are all applied technology. If this principle is to be applied consistently, then we would have to live as less than animals who have used simple tools for millions of years. The HG Wells "War of the Worlds" Martians would be forced to relinquish their tripod war machines in the service of political correctness and the song thrush would starve through want of a stone to obtain vital food. It is vital to apply an idea consistently. Making Davros into a goose-stepping Twinkletoes can be seen as politically correct cherrypicking. No Davros chair. No Daleks. No Cybermen. If the Daleks had not appeared in 1963, NO DR WHO!!! The show would have been axed due to declining viewer ratings, a trend dramatically reversed by the success of the disabled Dalek creatures, who found a way of surviving by resourceful, technological adaptation to an altered and hostile environment. Davros was the architect of this. "NuHu" is a towering edifice of retrospective continuity. It will be forced to remain so in order to retrieve the vital cornerstones and pillars of the show. The relationship of living beings to technology and survival is part of life and the implications raised by the future possibilities of this is huge. This goes way beyond Dr Who. It is a vital ingredient of Science Fiction itself. More importantly still. Science Fact!!!
Agreed that on sheer production values it’s the “best-looking”/best-made minisode they’ve done, so it’s Proper in that sense, but the minisode in and of itself is… eh, it’s fine. Nothing special. Not especially funny. No idea if Klade was actually intended to be a nod to Lance Parkin, but fun if so.
is the plunger thing really a bootstrap paradox though? it would be if that plunger was from a dalek in the future, but it's literally just a plunger. I don't think that's even a paradox, is it?
@@najawin8348 It definitely could be seen as "ah, I know what they need because I've seen them with it before" but to me it rang more as "let me grab the first thing I can that would fit as a replacement and get out of here quick"
It was... nice I guess, but I don't understand why this was preferable over just a sneak peek clip of The Star Beast. Give the audience a taste of the actual new era, and let fans chew over it for a few days.
1:02:58 But dwtwt promised me that this leak was fake!!!!1!!! (Also, I'm not sure if I'm excited for Moffat's new comedy, or terrified.) 1:28:00 Get 👏 rid 👏 of 👏 bootstrap 👏 paradoxes 👏 and 👏 use 👏 supertasks 👏 instead. Society has moved past the one simple paradox being used over and over again. Let's try another fun one. (And then do Sorites for a few years.)
I have nothing against Russell T Davies because he made some of the most memorable episodes of Doctor Who but everything that he's doing right now is because of Disney, because they're signing his paycheck now and flipping the bill for the episodes. BBC should have never signed a contract with Disney without reading the small print. They are taking control of a beloved TV show and like everything they touch anymore they're going to ruin it too.
![[Bad] - Преступление и наказание (КиноПоиск против Достоевского)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ds3DpAnfs4M/mqdefault.jpg)
![ATEEZ(에이티즈) - [GOLDEN HOUR : Part.2] Preview](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X4PfgRPBUVo/mqdefault.jpg)
Called it. Only you guys could make a 2 hour video about a 5 minute short.
Thank you so much for bringing up the cybermen issue, i've always found the stigmatization of people with prosthetics very uncomfortable and outdated
You guys have a new subsciber! Only half way through the video, but this is by far the best discourse i've seen concerning the short. It's so refreshing and pleasing to hear you guys give your honest opinions while still being aware of and holding account to the social media discourse and its murder of media literacy. Not to mention i had no idea my favourite comic writer, Grant Morrison, had written for Doctor Who!!! So thank you for that little nugget of info too. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the specials and future seasons of DW. Keep up the great work
To clarify, I think the order goes Power of the Doctor - that “Letter from the Doctor” thing in the Annual - Liberation of the Daleks - Destination: Skaro minisode - Into Control/Under Control (the Sycorax and Alfredo the pig short stories) - The Star Beast. So there seems to be an indeterminate gap after the minisode and before TSB in which all manner of EU adventures are supposed to slot, I think.
I agree that it's fairly likely Davros won't even appear in RTD2 and I wouldn't be particularly bothered by that (either from a fannish wishlist perspective or from the POV of 'let's retire this outdated character type'); the only issue I can see is that if the next era doesn't double down on / cement this "new" take on Davros the chances of a future era following through on the same ideology and making the same decisions are going to be a fair bit slimmer, so I dunno if the result RTD wants will necessarily materialise
People are already trying to argue on the wiki that we should still let his comments about seeing Davros this way moving forward inform how we write the article. >.>
It’s funny, but this mostly negative discussion of “Destination: Skaro” has actually, in some ways, made me like it even more.
Doing a big redesign in something everyone was going to dismiss as disposable fodder while simultaneously being seen by a lot of people is kinda cheeky and sort of a perfect place to do so.
My favourite moment in the minisode is one that I missed the first time round. When the Dalek presents its new janitorial appendage to Davros, I thought it was doing so proudly. Rewatching it, though, you could see it turn its eye stalk accusatorially at Castavillian (great name btw).
A extremely cynical reading of the fourteen’s line about his predecessor being a “brilliant woman” is one of condescension. The Doctor has usually been quite dismissive of his previous faces post-regeneration, so to break the mould here I found noteworthy.
While this could’ve been funnier, the idea of a Dilbert/The Office-style Kaled spin-off intrigues me (more so than a straightforward Dalek spinoff), especially if they pull a “Don’t Hug Me, I’m Scared” tonal rug-pull in between the white-collar workers, office romance and Secret Santa-ing every once and awhile to remind the audience what a tragedy’s coming for all the characters.
One small point of disagreement - while I agree wholeheartedly on lazy 'German coding' for villains, I really don't think Bleach is doing a particular Teutonic accent here. Speaking as someone who did German at university, I can't really detect it in the mix. There's something, clearly, overlayed over his normal speaking voice, but having gone back and listened to the way he talks through the prosthetic mask in 2008, I don't think it's actually distinct from the clipped, rasping vocals he gave then; it's just that it sounds slightly different without the mask.
I don't think it's just Missy or me, either; I've seen quite a few others say they don't feel like he's changing his voice work particularly.
I believe that since you recorded this the complete Unleashed episode has now become available on RUclips (albeit not officially I don’t think).
It's fair with Davros but I do feel conflating the issues with Dalek mobility as being tied to ableism is unfair. They're tanks, not life support, and in the revived series we constantly see daleks able to live fine outside of their armour. I've always thought that the Daleks are pretty piss poor nazi analogues in 9/10 situations but this is one element a feel works. The myth that the nazi's were somehow this hyper competent military with uniquely advanced weaponry has always been an element of their propaganda that lingers in public concensus, propagated by those terrible history channel programs, when in fact most of the time their stuff was developed essentially to stroke their machismo in ways that would be easily exploited. The daleks having made their tank at the expense of basic movement actually reflects an actual element of nazism which does make it feel kinda weird when you have showrunners choosing to remove these elements for the explicit purpose of fan validation
In 1963, the Daleks were people damaged and mutated by nuclear radiation. They adapted by living as cyborgs inside Dalek casings. Technically, every Dalek is a disabled person. Russell T Davies is now in a tight corner. If the retcon of Davros is to be applied consistently, then the Daleks would have to become evil robots, following on from "Destiny of the Daleks", where Terry Nation had retconned the Daleks into robots to borrow a plot idea from Isaac Asimov, to pit them against the Movellan robot race. As an aside, the Daleks could be given legs, thus converting them into fudged, low rent Cybermen. The Cybermen are disabled people with augmented cybernetic appliances. The principle is exactly the same as with Davros, the Daleks and the Cybermen. A bird breaking a snail's shell with a stone is using a tool. Tool usage predates humanity. A bird is an advanced form of dinosaur. Davros' chair, the Tardis and a smartphone are all applied technology. If this principle is to be applied consistently, then we would have to live as less than animals who have used simple tools for millions of years. The HG Wells "War of the Worlds" Martians would be forced to relinquish their tripod war machines in the service of political correctness and the song thrush would starve through want of a stone to obtain vital food. It is vital to apply an idea consistently. Making Davros into a goose-stepping Twinkletoes can be seen as politically correct cherrypicking. No Davros chair. No Daleks. No Cybermen. If the Daleks had not appeared in 1963, NO DR WHO!!! The show would have been axed due to declining viewer ratings, a trend dramatically reversed by the success of the disabled Dalek creatures, who found a way of surviving by resourceful, technological adaptation to an altered and hostile environment. Davros was the architect of this. "NuHu" is a towering edifice of retrospective continuity. It will be forced to remain so in order to retrieve the vital cornerstones and pillars of the show. The relationship of living beings to technology and survival is part of life and the implications raised by the future possibilities of this is huge. This goes way beyond Dr Who. It is a vital ingredient of Science Fiction itself. More importantly still. Science Fact!!!
Agreed that on sheer production values it’s the “best-looking”/best-made minisode they’ve done, so it’s Proper in that sense, but the minisode in and of itself is… eh, it’s fine. Nothing special. Not especially funny.
No idea if Klade was actually intended to be a nod to Lance Parkin, but fun if so.
is the plunger thing really a bootstrap paradox though? it would be if that plunger was from a dalek in the future, but it's literally just a plunger. I don't think that's even a paradox, is it?
How'd he know to give the guy a plunger?
@@najawin8348 It definitely could be seen as "ah, I know what they need because I've seen them with it before" but to me it rang more as "let me grab the first thing I can that would fit as a replacement and get out of here quick"
It was... nice I guess, but I don't understand why this was preferable over just a sneak peek clip of The Star Beast. Give the audience a taste of the actual new era, and let fans chew over it for a few days.
When are you doing review of Star Beast the tv version?
We've recorded it, I just need time to edit and release it. It will probably be out around twenty-eight hours from now.
@@Who-Cares Great! Thanks for that
1:02:58 But dwtwt promised me that this leak was fake!!!!1!!! (Also, I'm not sure if I'm excited for Moffat's new comedy, or terrified.)
1:28:00 Get 👏 rid 👏 of 👏 bootstrap 👏 paradoxes 👏 and 👏 use 👏 supertasks 👏 instead. Society has moved past the one simple paradox being used over and over again. Let's try another fun one. (And then do Sorites for a few years.)
I like the new presenter of Unleashed, he’s a great presence.
I just hope we've finally reached the point as a fandom where we agree that we're ready for spider Daleks.
I am a gay disabled man and I never saw Davros as disabled and in a wheelchair. He was half Dalek. I find RTD ablist and offensive about this.
If you want kids to watch don't get rid of the scary horrible looking monsters.
The Doctor fights the monsters whether or not they're in wheelchairs or have facial scars.
I have nothing against Russell T Davies because he made some of the most memorable episodes of Doctor Who but everything that he's doing right now is because of Disney, because they're signing his paycheck now and flipping the bill for the episodes. BBC should have never signed a contract with Disney without reading the small print. They are taking control of a beloved TV show and like everything they touch anymore they're going to ruin it too.